>> 1985 chicago bears, we consider him one of us. a great group of guys. we're very proud you honored us. only 26 years after the fact, and a fine administration, but thank you. >> not surprisingly the president said hosting the bears, we should say da bears, was the most fun he'll have as president of the united states. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." thanks for joining us. the news continues next on cnn. thanks, wolf. good evening. tonight, explosive, breaking news in the republican presidential race. a prominent southern baptist minister introduces texas governor rick perry at a conservative forum here in washington and then ignites religious war by calling mormonism a cult and a vote for mitt romney a mormon something that would, quote, give credibility to a cult. tonight, perry's spokesman tells us organizers of the values voter summit chose leader robert

jeffers to make that introduction. we ask if governor perry would repudiate that statement or call on dr. jeff to apologize. the only response from the campaign, the governor does not believe mormonism is a couple. dr. jeffs are will join us live. you see him here with governor perry. in his introduction he did not use the word cult or specifically attack romney by name but there was no doubt he had the former massachusetts governor in mind when he drew there is contrast. >> do we want a candidate who is skilled in rhetoric or one skilled in leadership? do we want a candidate who is a conservative out of convenience or one who is a conservative out of deep conviction? do we want a candidate who is a good, moral person or do we want a candidate who is a born-again follower of the lord jesus christ? rick perry is a prompt leader. he is a true conservative.

and he is a genuine follower of jesus christ. >> it was in a conversation with reporters after that dr. jeffers used the term cult. pastor of the first baptist church in dallas. he with us now. you're criticism of 0 the mormon church, you came today to a political event, an event very, very important to governor perry stumbling in the polls of late and you dropped this, what i'm going to call a bomb, going after governor romney, why? >> well, first of all, as you noted, john, i did not refer to mormonism as a cult in my opening introduction of governor per perry. governor perry had no knowledge of what i was going to say ahead of time. this is not an unusual view, john that mormonism is not christianity. historical christianity has never embraces mormonism ace part of its faith. for many years the southern baptist convention did label it

on its official website as a cult. that's not saying that mitt romney's a bad person i'm think he's a good person. a moral person but he dent embrace the historical ten. tenets of christianity. i think conservatives have plenty of reasons, leaving morinism out of it, not to be energized by mitt romney candidacy. >> you understand the moment, sir, governor perry has been struggling, you came to endorse him as an individual, introduce him today. you say you had no conversations with the perry campaign at all about what you were going to say? >> no, none at all. i was a guest here. the family research council, not governor perry. >> speaking to reporters after and you say voting for romney would give credibility to a cult. there are 16 million southern baptists in the united states, so your church has 10,000 members, there are 16 million

southern baptists. are you saying that they would be giving credibility to a cult if they vote for governor romney? >> well i have always said, john, given the choice between mitt romney and barack obama, i would vote for mitt romney. i think it is much better for those of us who are evangelical christians to have a nonchristian who embraces biblical values in the white house than to have a professing christian like barack obama who addresses and embraces up biblical positions. and so, while i am hesitant and would be at this stage, when we can choose a christian candidate for office, i do think there may come a time when it's the lesser of two evils. and so i would not say under no circumstances would i vote for mitt romney, but it was john jay, the first chief justice of the supreme court, who said we have the duty and privilege to vote and select christians as our leaders. and again, mitt romney's a good, moral person, but he done embrace historical christianity.

i'm not sure why that's news. that has been the position of evangelical christians for a long time. >> it has been but it's news that you dit thd it at this eve. whether president obama and mitt romney, you would vote for mitt romney. governor perry stumbled and this was an event a stepping stone back from his perspective. you decided right now to try to stop mitt romney, didn't you? >> no, that's not true. i was asked personally in a conference after my induction about why i personally would be hesitant to vote for a mormon, and i gave a very honest answer, that i fell like it would give credibility to a nonchristian religion. that was me personally, that had nothing to do with governor perry, and it occurred after the event. this i a historical conviction of mine. in 2007 i said the very same thing was in the news media talking about mormonism. this is not some new belief of minor that of evangelical

christians either. >> it's not a new belief of yours but it is an issue, a hurdle sometimes to his candidacy that governor romney tried to put behind him. this is fox news radio back in september when asks about the role of his faith in his candidacy. >> you know i know there are some for whom religion is the most important issue and i may lose some of those votes. but for the great majority of americans they want to see this country going again. >> governor romney's due to be at that very event where you are, sir, values voters conference, due to be there tomorrow. he would not comment on this tonight. would you spend time with him? anything he could do to convince you that he is a christian in? he says he's a christian and mormonism is not a couplculp an he could do. >> i would be glad to visit with gvr romney about that. i don't hate governor romney. he's a good, moral person. but as a past somewhere preacher of the gospel of jesus christ i

have the responsibility to proclaim what the bible proclaim, there are not numerous revelations of the book of mormon, the bible teaches that there is one way to god, and that is through faith alone in jesus christ. so i have to be faithful to my calling as a pastor. and when asked a question by an interviewer after an introduction today, instead of saying no comment, i have a responsibility as a proclaimer of truth to tell the truth. >> and as a proclaimer of truth, in your view, will you tell your worships are back in dallas, will you go to other places in the country, and express that same opinion that a vote for romney would be to give credibility to a cult? >> i would say that, certainly. i would say why a christian ought to vote for another crittian. this coming sun in my church i'm preaching a message on how a christian should vote. four questions, every christian

should ask before they vote for a candidate and in my new book coming out in january, "twilight's last gleaming "ize talk about the issue why it's so important for christians to vote for competent christians. but the issue goes beyond romney's faith. he is not a consistent conservative. he is no not consistently embraced biblical values that we feel strongly about, like the sangtity of life and the sank thisty of marriage and i think there are many reasons, even if you don't care about his faith if you're a conservative not to vote for mitt romney. >> and those are issues that are being litigated in the campaign, in the many dedates we have had, being litigated. governor perry questions governor romney's commitment. to bring religion into it, when it's been an aobstacle for him in the past, that's not been accident, sir. >> well, i was asked a question by areporter -- >> you put out a press release earlier about your endorsement and drew distinctions in that.

>> yes. that's right. and in that press release there was not the word "cult" used there, was there in. >> you're right. if your speech and appearance you would draw a distinction. we reached out to the church of latter day saints about your remarks and they said, we don't want to comment on a statement made at a political event but those who want to understand the centrality of christ to our faith can learn more about us and what we believe by going to mormon.org. have you ever been to the website? ever spent any time with mormon ministers trying to see if there's maybe you can bridge the gap between your view of cult and their view they are christians, good christians? >> part of it, john, it's not an embracing of historic christianity. the term "cult" that's a pejorative word to some but in theological terms a cult is a religion that has a human leader instead of divine leader. our leader is jesus christ.

joseph smith is founder of the mormon church. we believe the bible is god's sole revelation to man. so by a theological definition, not a sociological definition, theological definition, they are a cult. but again, so few of your viewers probably care about that for conservatives, there are many more pressing issues regarding the presidency and especially why we need a consistent conservative like rick perry than a recent damascus road convert to conservative principles like mitt romney. >> dr. jeffers. from governor perry, the only statement we could get from him he does not believe mormonisms a couple. does that make governor perry any less of a christian because he doesn't agree with you? >> new york not at all. many christians would disagree, possibly some of my own church members, john.

but it's in all how define the terms. i don't think this is the big issue of mormonism being a cult or not. it's how you define the term. i think the reali issue is we republicans need a conservative one out of conviction, not out of convenience. and i believe that that's the only kind of person who's going to energize conservative evangelicals to vote. my own feeling is if mitt romney is the republican candidate, i believe barack obama will be the next president of the united states. i remain people all the time, john, that in 2008, 30 million evangelical christians sat at home and didn't vote because they were not enter guienter gud by mccain. for all of those who say a candidate's faith makes no difference there's a large core of evangelicals to whom its a issue. when we can select a christian

we ought to do so. in the general election, if it's romney or barack obama, i'll probab probably hole my nose and vote for romney. >> you've ignited a bit of a controversial. appreciate you having the willingness to explain your views to us. we'll keep in touch. when we come back, more on the breaking news story, including an interview with the man helping to organize that event, tony perkins of the family research council. when anybody in america calls quicken loans for a free home loan review, we'll offer them a free android smartphone. but how are you gonna get these phones to our clients coast to coast? it's gonna take a little magic. i'm on it. straight from motown to you, america! yes!

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continuing coverage of tonight's breaking political news. a southern baptist endorses rick perry but tells conservative that mormonism is a couple, voting for mitt romney who is a mormon would be, quote, giving credibility to a cult. joining us tony perkins he helped organize the value voters are summit and president of family research council. do you consider mormonism a cult? >> you know, my role here, john, is not from a -- to analyze theologically but i will tell you this -- >> do you view evangelicals to be a cult?

why is that a tough question? >> john, i do not see mormonism the sim as christianity. whether it's defined as a cult, i don't know. i would say it's not christianity the way evangelicals view christianity. there's a distinction. there's no question there's a theological distinction between mormonism and christianity. but what we're focused here at the values voters summit is values and values issues. what people are looking for is where candidates stand on issues, where they stand on the life issue, where they stand -- wait a minute -- where they stand on marriage, where they stand on the family, as well as the other issues. and mitt romney has articulated positions consistent on those views and that's why he's comfortable in coming here to speak to value voters. >> he's coming there to speak tomorrow. now he's coming there in the middle of the dustup caused by dr. jeffress, who governor perry was talking about governor romney talking about inconsistenties and dr. jeffress

raises issues about the romney record, fair game, in the round of politics. do you think it's fair game for him to tell reporters, and le understands, tony you, understand moment we're in in the campaign, governor perry has been struggling governor romney has a big lead, he leads in a poll that came outer in iowa. there's a big question about evangelical voters in iowa and south carolina. will this time around more of them perhaps embrace governor romney, maybe they have reservations about his mormon faith and then, bang, a minister says it's a cult, voting for him would be lending credibility to a cult. that is the message you want coming out of your event? >> no, no, and i think it's unfortunate that was discussed at this time. that's not the purpose of this event. this is a values voters summit where people of different faiths -- general evangelical, social, conservative catholics are coming together, but we have mormons that come here as well. in last several years mormons and evangelicals works together.

marriage would not be protects had not mormons and evangelicals work together. it's important that we focus on the issues and that's the purpose of this event, focus on issues, find the candidate who articulates and has strong positions that can move the country back in the right direction. >> the perry campaign says they had nothing to did with the introduction, it was the organizers. i assume that means you or somebody that works with you who picked dr. jeffress. is that right? was the perry campaign given any heads up this would be the man introducing him because dr. jeffress is on record with these views in the past. i assume the perry campaign could have stopped this. >> i think how, as i talked to my staff what happened, media consultant approached us about dr. jeffress making the introduction and i know him, and so we sent it to the campaign, they signed off on it, he made the introduction. i don't think there was any other communication beyond than the campaign did not know what he would say. we did not know what he would say. >> when did they sign off on it?

when did they sign off on it? >> i think they were notified a couple of weeks ago someone had been recommended to introduce the governor. >> it's an interesting point a couple of weeks ago. forgive me, it's an interesting point, dr. jeffress stirred up this controversy back in 20007 when governor romney was running in the 2008 campaign saying the same thing. you're certain the perry campaign had a two week heads up? >> yeah. whether or not they, you know, they just took it as a recommendation from us and moved on, i don't know. but we -- we're not going to allow anybody to introduce a candidate unless they campaign signs off on it or at least is knowledgeable about it. >> can governor romney come in there tomorrow, not address this or do you assume he was going to do that anyway? >> john, nobody here's talking about it. this is all in the news on the outside because this was not said from the stage. i haven't even seen the actual comments that were made after the introduction.

so this isn't even being discusses here at conference. and i think mitt romney has been here at the values voters summit every year since we began and every year he has delivered a solid message. in fact, recall he won the straw poll one year here. he's going to come into an environment that people will be receptive to his message and listening intently to what he has to say. >> tony perkins, appreciate your time. we'll be watching the event as it plays out tomorrow. joining us now, ed rollins, david gergen, and democratic strategist paul begala. ed, you first because of your experience in republican politics. does this hurt governor romney to have this stirred up again? and does this help or hurt governor perry to have a minister endorse governor perry and then walk into the room and say his was answering a question but call mormonism a cult and say a vote for romney is to give a cult credibility. >> i find the comments

disturbing and i think it's not reverend jeffress is not the only one that shares these views having work for two evangelical christians in the last two campaigns, there's certain anti-mormonism that you find, not by mike huckabee, not by michele bachmann. i think the bottom line is it bother me ace catholic who saw great bias against john kennedy, as a man who was married to a jew on this holiest of day and the father of a chinese child any one of these things, catholicism, judaism or chinese could be issues of prejudice and i find prejudice to be something that people need to push away and the political process and you call something a cult, you may disagree with romney on many issues but he's a devout man, he shares values that they're talking about at this conference. he's a front-runner of our party and for anybody to say not to vote for him because his religion is a cult, i find it just outrageous and i think it disturbs our party and i think

it basically gives the wrong impression of republicanism. >> paul, you're a democrat but you do campaign as well as anybody in the business. for this to happen at there's day, at there's time, governor perry coming to the forum, after he's been stumbling, down in the polls, conservatives have seen a few things in the record, immigration, hp vaccine, this gets stirred up, 54% of south carolina identify themselves as born-again evangelicals, 60% of iowa republican caucus voters i.d. thep as born-again evangelicals. i assume this was done with a point. >> from dr. jeffress, i don't think in defense of rick perry, it's going to shock you, that politicians should be held accountable for everything every support says. this is not rick perry's fault. >> even with two weeks' heads up someone's supposed to run that? he's from dal alsdallas.

the perry campaign is headquartered in austin, texas. if they didn't know it off the surface don't they have a responsibility when their candidate is struggling to check out everybody who is going to speak for him. >> that's a good point. i'm wearing my texas lapel pin, my cult is texas, yes my state is represented by an underachieving governor and a prejudice pastor. i do think that the statement perry put out post facto. prefacto he should have caught. he said i don't think mormonism is a cult. he should have spoken out gej the prejudice. i want to believe he's not a prejudice man. he should have stood up. he's not responsible for this top don't be too hard on perry. i think he looks weak in not standing up to a prejudice position. >> we'll continue the conversation. david, first impression, mitt romney walks into the same event tomorrow. does he ignore it or take it

head on? >> i don't think mitt romney ought to talk about it very much i do think rick perry should talk about it. it's just issuing a statement through a press release is insufficient. this statement by the pastor hurts rick perry, it does not hurt mitt romney. if anything, it may get the issue out on the table where it can be disposed of and ecan get on to the more important issues of our time. a statement of bigotry, the church of jesus christ of latter day saint is a very respected religious group here in this country, it's the fourth largest demom nation in the country. they're a devout people they have served the country in all sorts of ways. for the paster to label it a cult, it's no a pejorative it's a statement of bigotry and rick perry needs to denounce it. i don't think mitt romney needs to say much more about it.

he ought to keep his focus on the economy and jobs. but i do -- would note, john, there's an underlying concern. gallop has been poll on this question for some time, and as you know about 18% of republicans say they would not vote for a nominee of that party who is a mormon, 27% of democrats, i might point out, say that. so there is this underlying thinging. i think we need to get rid of it. go back to ed rollins' point. we need to deal with mormonism the way we dealt with catholicism and the way someone being african-american being elected to the white house, get this behind us. >> ed and paul will stay with us. listen to a key mormon voice, get his perspective on the controversy. back with more of the breaking political story. ♪ ♪ ♪ when your chain of supply ♪ goes from here to shanghai, that's logistics. ♪

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continuing our coverage of tonight's breaking political news. a prominent southern baptist minister endorses rick perry for president but tells reporters here in washington that mormonism is, quote, a cult and voting for a mormon, meaning mitt romney, voting for a mormon would give credibility to that cult. joining us on the phone, richard bushman a practicing mormon who has wristen on mormon culture and the church of jesus christ

and latter day saints. what is your reaction when you hear a megachurch pastors, 10,000 followers in dallas, southern baptist convention 16 million in america, calling your faith a cult. >> shocked and surprised it hasn't been said so many times before movrmon hear that they'r dumbfoundeded. we sake the sacrament, pledge ourselves to christ, believe the basic doctrines about christ. but it's a surprise. hearing it doesn't ruffle my feather, it's part of our religious landscape, it seems. >> part of the religious landscape. is this an issue in 2007, anyone around governor rom nil would tell you it's a speed bump in places like iowa, south carolina, so many evangelical vote to have this view reinforces, the cult voting for romney would be a vote giving a

cult credibility. now it's about to be, if not a political issue. >> that word cult has been used a lot, too. i don'ty in that will come to a surprise, certainly not to evangelicals who have heard that in their churches and for example like dr. jeffress many times. so i think, i agree with david gergen, that the most serious consequence is likely to be a backlash. we live in a tolerant country where people look at other relidges. with respect. a cult is a pejorative word. using that term i think the -- those who tuesday discredit themselves more than they discredit the object. >> help me with the history. you heard tony perken he says governor romney's been there many times he personally himself does not consider mormonism to be christianity, by his definition but there's a bridge built between mormons and many evangelicals and yet you have

the southern baptist leader using the cult term and giving a clear condemnation of the mormon faith. what is the particular challenge with the southern baptists? >> well, the southern baptists are noted for the strict orthodoxy. mormons have very good connections with other evangelicals, not only in common causes, political and social, but also in theologically, evangelicals have spoken at the mormon tabernacle and mormons enjoy conversations with evangelicals. so there are many bridges being built. it's just one little island of a very strict evangelical belief that is centered in the southern baptist where the problem remains. >> you have governor romney in this race, you have governor huntsman in the race, both mormons, the democratic majority leader of the united states senate, harry reid, a mormon, and yet the prominent officials, just three there, i could name

more, yet this remains a deciding line, if you will, a flashpoint in politics, particularly when it comes to presidential proim marys, why? >> i think it's a flash point only in certain segments of the population. and granted, that's not a small segment, but mormons, it's a long history, in which it's been thought of as a very exotic and bizarre religion and it's taken a century or more to get where we are we can run a candidate for president. however the erosion is taking place, having two candidates strengthens the case that mormons are reasonable, trustworthy people, and the religion issue is going fade as time goes by. >> appreciate your time and perspective tonight. very helpful to help us understand. let's continue our conversation with ed rollins, david gergen, paul begala.

ed, the same question. you have two prominent candidates for president, you harry reid, i was having this conversation with it governor of montana and he scratched his head he said i run into mormons every day at the supermarket, it's a growthing faith out west yet we know in iowa for romney, we know in south carolina last time for romney, it's a big deal. how do we get over it? >> well i think we get over it by whenever -- by challenging people like the reverend. you know the republican party, evangelical movement is a very important elment of it. there are leader likes tony and others that basically done tolerate you know religious bias. i think to a certain extent every time something like this happens, we have to stand up and we have to basically condemn it, call it for what it is, it's a bigotry. we're a party that wants to add people. we don't want to be a party that subtracts people. whether you support romney, he's an outstanding individual. he's got great moral fiber. he's been an extraordinary

leader in my party. to a certain extent anybody who votes against him because his religion is something they don't believe in needs to be condemned? governor perry is in iowa. we have a producer with him, he's at a barbecue in iowa, if he says anything we'll turn it around as quickly as possible. you say it's a burden on governor perry to say more. how does governor romney deal with this in the age of theness net, everything else, this will be circulated especially into places liiowa and south carolin. a new poll in new hampshire, wmur has mitt romney way ahead in new hampshire. if he can local that decent in iowa, he needs to win south carolina, he's on his way, that is going to be the biggest question mark. >> john, i think in a context of tomorrow, he doesn't want to continue stirring this controversy up. he's going to be asked about it in some interviews and then he needs to address it.

and i think he'll have answers that will be persuasive for most americans, probably not all. it may be that sometime later in the campaign just as john kennedy had to give a speech, as you remember in texas to christian ministers, really compelling speech about his religious faith, just as barack obama eventually had to give a speech about his -- one of the best speeches of his life in philadelphia -- about his relationship with reverend wright it may be governor romney may need to do a speech later on. i don't think this is the time. this issue hasn't arisen though it's bubbling below the surface because there's so much stress about jobs. i doubt it's a major issue in the campaign regardless. >> do you agree? >> it's an issue for rick perry. i don't think he caused it. i don't believe he put the pastor up to it. i don't condemn him. but he should have acted by now. he wants to be a leader.

an american leader has to stand for the principle of religious tolerance and say you know the constitution was right in article 6, second 3, no religious test and it's not in our american tradition. go look at what john f. kennedy said about the mormon church, 50 years ago he was praising the church because he understood the wish circle america had to include every religion and no religion. >> appreciate your help. day's over big news including a jobs report that most months we would say my god that's horrible. yet this month, better than expected. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business. it's good for the entire community.

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. welcome back. the laft news you need to know. eric holder blasted republicans who have called him a liar. that operation put u.s. guns into the hands of mexican drug cartels, some guns used in murders on both sides of the border. in today's letter, holder writes he cannot sit idly by as lawmakers suggest law enforcement and government employees who devote their lives to protecting our citizens be

considered accessories to murder. holder continues, such a responsible and inflammatory ret rick must be repudiated at strongest possible terms. better than expected jobs numbers. up employ minute rate held steady, 9.1%. employer added 103,000 new jobs. obama administration went to court to block enforcement of alabama's immigration law, critics warn legal i'ding racial profiles of latinos. afghanistan, much has changed, then again nick paton walsh came across a case of tribal justice that raises disturbing questions about whether anything has changed. a warning before we show you this report, pictures are violent and quite disturbing. >> reporter: on his knees, me he condemned for killing his lover's husband, praise the father approaches his son's alleged killer, hoed t hole the

he's told. stop shooting, you donkey, they say. the warlord ordered the father to only shoot twice, but the father just didn't stop. he's still alive, they say. but not for long. >> disturbing story there. the war in afghanistan now the longest u.s. military action in our history surpassing vietnam. that makes ten as in ten years, tonight's number. some other numbers about that conflict, we want to bring to you tonight. 3,652 days. if you bring it on out, sadly, 1,790 americans have lost their lives in gan ov lives in afghanistan over the past decade. american taxpayers spent $323 billion. up next, tonight's truth in making the case, his case, to commander in chief. did mitt romney say anything that warrants an apology?

at the citadel in south carolina today the former massachusetts governor mitt romney made his case to be the next commander in chief. he disagreed with republican rival business insisting the united states must keep its resolve in afghanistan. >> we should embrace the challenge and not shrink from it and not crawl into an isolationist shell, not wave the white flag of surrender. >> most of the speech an attack

on president obama's security on foreign policies, including this -- >> let me make this very clear, as president of the united states, i will devote myself to an american century and i will never, ever appall dpologize fo america. >> here's tonight's truth. while he has said some things that make republicans mad and are fair game for criticism, president obama has not apologized for america in the way governor romney and many other republican as sort. it was karl rove who started all of this in april 2009 when he wrote a "wall street journal" essay labeling obama's early overseas trips an apology tour. it became a big republican theme. >> mr. president, stop apologizing for our country! >> i do not believe the majority of americans share the same views that barack obama does when he's out there apologizing

for america's exceptionalism. >> i think he has made a practice of trying to apologize for america. i personally am proud of america. >> so what is the evidence the republican's cite? let's take a look at some of them. exhibit a, the president in france, back in april 2009. >> in america, there's a faail r to appreciate europe's leading role in the world. instead of celebrating your d dynamic union and seeking to partner with you to meet common challenges there have been times when america's shown arrogance and been dismissive, even derisive. >> the president's conservative critics cite his june 2009 cairo speech reaching out to the arab and muslim world. >> 9/11 was an enormous trauma to our country. the fear and anger provoked was understandable but in some cases it led us act contrary to our traditions and our ideas.

we're taking concrete actions to change course. >> now i can tell you firsthand the president bristles at the apology tour label and the idea he doesn't view america as an exceptional nation. he has, though, on several occasions including two we he has used very deferential language, conceding america's mistake, flaws and even arrogance. he insists being more humble was necessary in those early days because of the hits america's image took and the iraq war and what they call george w. bush's broader cowboy diplomacy image. a debate certain to continue as republicanston campaign. next, in his new movie opening tonight, george clooney is a condition for commander in chief. how real is it that that the real president have acting skills? like an apricot... or a prune. and i like both, i just don't want to look like one. covergirl and olay simply ageless foundation

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are you kidding me? i'm going to give certificates of state to a guy that wants to cut the top ten floors off the u.n. paul, when we started, said i wouldn't make those kind of deals. >> if they get the top delegates and get north carolina, then they get the lead. a lead you can't beat. take his endorsement and the race is over. >> paul, i respect you. i respect your opinion. i'm never going to do it.

so i suggest we find way for to win ohio. >> "the eyes of march" starts tonight. >> playing the campaign manager, the governor is an idealist of hope and change, you might say until he finally accepts he needs a little back room deal making. >> i want on the ticket. you need me on that ticket and you could use my delegates and you need them before tuesday. make a fine story on the sunday morning news cycle. so i expect to hear from you by noon tomorrow or i endorse pullman to take that cabin seat. >> ryan pullman, you saw him there the deal making senator thompson. >> we're not trying to make political statements here and we're sensitive to the

environment we're currently facing, a challenging one that makes for fertile ground for good film making. >> the worry it will add or reinforce the sennism that politics is broken? >> the film will add to that? no, i don't think so. i think the film is sensitive to the current climate. it is a pretty divisive time. i think one of the real unfortunate aspects of it is that we -- coming out of the election, we had so many folks who felt a part of the american fabric in a way they hadn't previously. i think the most unfortunate aspect of the current dialogue, i think, is the way we exclude folks from the idea of -- or from -- from their ownership of their americanness. i guess when you're at war, one of the tactic is to dehumanize the other guy so you can, you know, attack by any means

necessary. what we found too often lately, i think, in the political world, folks are being deamericanized, so you have this non-productive dialogue right now really undermining our efforts to problem solve and face the challenges in a productive way. >> when you're part of this a-list cast and you're doing a movie that is about politics, do you have political debates? political discussions during your breaks? >> it was a pretty qui quick -- quick pace to clooney's direct, we got in, did the work, discussed the scenes of the day an went to lunch. obviously most of us were politically aware folks so we talked about things but really, our primary focus was on trying to wrap our arms around this script and make a good film. >> would george clooney be a

good president? >> you know, i think that it's very difficult right now -- i think the expectation for any run for office now is that they be a choir boy. if there's any actor that's convinced you he's a choir boy, he's giving his best performance. you'd have to ask george that. i don't know -- i think we've had enough actor is in the oval office for a while. >> let's go back to the real world for a second about your own politics. you talked about someone who is genuine in leadership. who when you look at the political leadership right now, who do you think is genuine? >> i think president obama is a genuine -- genuine guy. i think he's really -- hen terred into the office with a real adding to unify the country. i think that was an honest -- an honest attempt made. of course, the backlash has been so formidable for him, now that

he's facing real challenges. he was facing real challenges there. i certainly think his attempts at leadership are genuine. that's the one of the issues in the film that interested me was the rift between the ego of these political figures and their talent. whether or not their desire to be in front was a desire to lead a constituency in a genuine way or whether it was, as martin luther king would say, stir the drumstick. >> in the film you're a good actor playing a powerful politician. >> does a powerful politician need to be a great actor? >> sure. but acting isn't about being deceitful, about wearing a mask in order to tell the truth. at its core, it's about communicating and affecting and compelling people. it's a certain