way he's a brave kid. join us for our town hall conversation, "bullying stops here" 8:00 eastern on cnn. tonight, gerard butler, leading man, action hero, and hollywood heartthrob. if you could choose one partner, who would it be? >> i'm looking over, i see people going don't do it, don't do it. >> do it, there's nothing to lose here. she'll be flattered. the answer tonight, and deepak chopra, michael jackson's long-time friend, what he thinks killed michael. >> he's familiar with this thing that takes you to the valley of death and then brings you back from it. he was talking about propofol, the anesthetic that finally killed him.

it took him to the valley of death and did not bring him back. >> this is "piers morgan tonight." good evening, another dramatic day in the trial of dr. conrad murray, who's accused of causing the death of michael jackson. to ted rollins in los angeles. >> reporter: piers, it was a riveting day in court today, we got to listen to conrad murray, basically, this will be it for jurors, unless he takes the stand, he gets to tell his side of the story through a police interview. a two-hour audiotape that jurors heard about an hour and 40 minutes of. in it he talks about giving michael jackson propofol every single night during the two months he was taking care of the pop star, except, he said, for the few days leading up to his death. he said he was trying to help jackson break away from the addiction to propofol, he said jackson was his friend, he said he was doing everything he could to jackson and jackson was demanding he give him that, what

he would call, milk. >> i got to sleep, dr. conrad. i have this rehearsals to perform, i must be ready for the show in england. tomorrow i will have to cancel my -- my performance, i have to cancel my trip, because, you tomorrow i will have to cancel my -- my performance, i have to cancel my trip, because, you know, i cannot function if i don't get the sleep. >> fell asleep quickly, he's snoring, he was not in a deep sleep. >> i was worried about that, because he didn't quickly wake up, but i monitored him. i stayed there and watched and monitored his oxygen saturation,

high 90%. heart rate roughly in the 70s, everything looked stable. i monitored him. i sat there and watched him for long enough period that i felt comfortable, then i needed to go to the bathroom, so i got up, went to the bathroom, released myself of urine, also consider getting rid of some of his urination that he had put in the jugs overnight. i came back to his bedside, and got the sense that he wasn't breathing. mr. jackson was my friend, i loved him. >> couple things to take away from this, one is that he never mentions any of those phone calls to his girlfriends or his office in the hour before he notices that jackson is unresponsive. that will be something the defense is going to have to deal with later down the line.

the other thing you notice is he seems to be one of the people, a long list of people, in michael jackson's life that gets caught in his web, wants to help him, and is doing things at his request. i know you're talking to deepak chopra later in the show, but the jury still got a lot of it today listening to dr. conrad murray. piers? >> as always, thank you very much. gerard butler's career took off in his role in "300." his latest is a searing performance in "machine gun preacher." gerard butler joins me now. jerry, i think you're preferred to be known. americans call you gerard. you're irish decent, but you're scottish, aren't you? >> that's right. >> scotland they never say gerard. >> they say jerad. >> let's start with your

physique, because you look, unfortunately -- you're looking great, but i want to show you, luckily, a picture from last year where you weren't in such a great shape. i prefer the gerard on the left, you know why, it's more like me, so that men like me look to you in the shot on the left and thought fantastic, then to our utter horror you emerged from a soccer match in britain on the right looking like that. >> i saw those photos, and that changed my life, actually. >> did it really? >> really, really did. >> tell me about that. >> so i was -- i was on holiday with a buddy down in barbados and i just finished -- i forget what movie it was, but i trained pretty heavily for the movie and was taking some time off, and i noticed i was eating more and more and kept thinking i should be careful, and then i was actually getting in the water and looked over and saw this boat in the distance and saw the -- >> you thought no!

>> even i didn't realize how awful it was going to look or how big of a -- >> can i remind you, your idea of awful is my idea of responsibly good naked, so you have to be careful with your language here. >> awful for me, considering where i'd been, you know. >> so you were properly upset by it. >> in truth, it didn't look great, didn't kill me, but it did lead me to be a little more cognizant of what i was eating. >> when that second picture came out, which is an extraordinary image, what did you feel then, a kind of sense of absolute euphoria? >> no, i look rkds, look at the hair, the tongue. >> no one is looking at your hair, it's the six-pack. extraordinary. i want to take you back to scotland, you grew up in scotland, and you were supposed to be a lawyer, this was the plan. you were going to be a good,

conscientious lawyer, then you became a trainee lawyer, then incredibly, one of the only people in history to get fired as a training lawyer. that's pretty difficult. >> i don't think it's ever happened before actually. >> you went to a famous festival in scotland and got wrecked, right? >> this is a great start to an interview, here you are fat, now let's talk about the time you were fired. >> is it any consolation, we'll come to the bit you get jailed in the l.a. county jail. this is the good stuff. this will start descending, trust me. >> taxi. >> so here you are, fired as a trainee lawyer, what does your mum say to you in that moment, game plan has dramatically changed. >> she wasn't there at that moment, thank god. it was a room full of lawyers. if i could have had her there, have a word with them. even then it would have been too late. it was a very sad moment for me

at that point, because i don't come from a family of lawyers, it was a big deal that i was going to law school. my mom, you know, talking about irish mothers, very proud, my boy's going to be a lawyer, then one week before qualifying i had to call her and say i've just been fired, and it was a -- it was a tough moment in my life, it was tough for her to hear that it just happened to her son. then in the next breath she said what are you going to do, i said well, move to london and become an actor, i'm going to get my [ bleep ] together. >> was the problem, which turned out to be a blessing in disguise, but was the problem before you got fired, you'd been to america for a year, i think, with some irish mates and were living in venice beach and drank yourselves into oblivion for a year, is it true? >> this is funny, who have you been talking to? >> done a little research. >> i was 21. i had taken a summer in america when i was younger, but this was the end of my law degree, came

for the summer, i knew when i got back things were going to get much more serious. in truth, it was covering up darker, which i knew i was heading totally down the wrong track. >> you had this thing inside you burning away, but before we get to the crater spot, i do want to know about the night in the l.a. county jail. >> okay. well, what happened -- [ laughter ] >> is the memory flooding back? you were actually shackled, right? >> i was shackled, yeah. what was it, i think it was -- i think it was drunk driving or something silly. i was kind of out of control in those days. >> was that a wake-up moment? >> yeah, but in truth i had a few of them. i could write a book about moments like that. >> we all have moments like this. you're not alone. you're not the first guy with irish blood with a few drinks in his life. but you have this wake-up

moment, you come back, you don't get through the law thing, so the whole sort of plan for you, which was going to be, i think, pretty dull, you were going to leave -- i think you said this, you were going to lead this life as a small town lawyer in scotland. it's not that exciting. >> what i realized was up until that point, i had that energy with me, but i didn't know what to do with it. the one thing it was not made for was a career as a lawyer. can you imagine sitting in that office and feeling that pulse? >> do you ever wonder what may have happened if you passed your law degree, if you passed exams, if you'd come a lawyer? >> yeah, i don't think i would have - -- i don't think i'd be alive today to be honest, and i don't say that lightly. i was living my life in a very unhealthy way, and i needed to be told that it wasn't happening. i needed to be stopped, because otherwise i'd just have kept going thinking i would have got

away with it, then -- so no, you know, one, i would not have been fulfilling my purpose, i wouldn't have been -- god knows where i would have ended up. >> what was your mother's honest opinion when you fled to london away from this career as she mapped out, as you say, tough catholic mum, her boy is supposed to be this well-groomed lawyer, racing off to be an actor in london, what did she think? >> i think she threw up her hands and thought i've created a monster, who knew? >> when the monster thrived and succeeded and ever more succeeded, did her view change quite quickly? >> she did. by the way, i'm not giving her fair credit. she wrote me the most beautiful letter when i went to london, and i didn't expect it, because

my mother and i, we're very, very close, very intense relationship, and she wouldn't let me go on anything, so i expected her to be -- to be way more heavy handed with what had happened, but she wrote me this letter that said i want you to know i support you in whatever you do, as long as it makes you happy i'll be there for you. >> what does she make of what's happened to you? >> she loves it, she loves it. it gives her a chance to do her performing thing, my boy, and she claims she doesn't, but whatever she goes, did you know gerard butler, that's my son. she'll find a way. she'll find a way to get that into any conversation. >> let's take a short break. when we come back, i want to get into the movie of yours. [ beep ] [ mom ] scooter? the progresso chicken noodle you made is so good. it's got tender white meat chicken. the way i always made it for you. one more thing.... those pj's you like,

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>> sam. sam. there are too many. we can't help them all. >> well, i can take these ones here. >> gerard butler's latest movie, this is serious, intense, visceral, it's raw, everything you'll want in a powerful movie, you're all over this, you're a star in it, you produced it. why this? >> it's the way you introduced the movie is the very same reason i wanted to do it. i read the script and thought this is such a remarkable story of one man's jury where he really took on the world. i loved all the themes in it, religion, you know, just had a powerful belief in god, fighting one's own demons, and this situation in africa. >> very quickly sum up what the film's about. >> so, i play a man called sam

childers who was a drug addict, you know, violent man who lived in pennsylvania who finally got his life together, found god, went down to do some missionary work in africa where he witnessed atrocity ies in sudan, and it changed his life, and he ended up, one, becoming a preacher, but two, fighting to build an orphanage and also he started fighting the rebel forces who were kidnapping these children to bring them back into the orphanage, so he's got a bible in the one hand and machine gun in the other. while still trying to have a family in pennsylvania and building a church there and still dealing with his own demons, because he's a dark soul.

>> god-fearing bad boy sees the light, parallels as you were filming, thinking -- very different story line. >> sometimes you read a script and you don't know why, you just think i connect with this, then it's almost embarrassing to say it out loud that i would feel parallels to that, because, of course, what he's achieved is so much more than me, i didn't start fighting in a war, but at the same time i felt a lot of parallels, and you try and force those parallels on to the character as well. >> it's a cliche question, but did it make you reassess yourself, your sense of what's important in life? >> absolutely. when you see these kids, and they have nothing and they abide by a very simple way of living, and they truly have nothing, and yet they look at you and it's just about you, it's only you and what, you know, who you are. there's nothing gets in between that, and you think what do i really need, what do i really need except some simple believes and some friendships, and so without a doubt, and it also reaffirms your faith in humanity as to where we could be even with nothing.

>> watch another clip from the movie here. >> they burnt it down. nothing left. >> where are you? it's a test, sam. >> i can't do it no more, lynn. it's over. >> sam? >> yeah. >> can you hear me? >> yeah, i can hear you. >> them kids have had their whole lives burnt to the ground and worse, how many of them do you see giving up? >> when you finish scenes like that, how do you unwind after, can you or does it hang with you for a long time? >> it hangs with you for awhile, and with this movie there was very much a cumulative affect, because from day one you find

yourself playing more and more of these scenes where you're having some kind of breakdown via drugs or family pressures, and then, of course, in africa where it went to such huge proportions of depression and despair that after awhile it became -- this movie was definitely a journey and a lot of darkness for me. >> do you feel slightly mentally scarred by what you had to see? >> yeah, i do. yeah, i was amazed that i struggled with it like i did. i definitely had an emotional reaction to it, and i would during the movie, sometimes i'd sit there and i would start -- i would just start crying, and find myself in a really -- reminded me of places that i'd been in my darker days when i was younger when i thought -- when i thought life couldn't get much worse really. >> there's a remarkably powerful kind of moral divide issue that's raised by sam and real-life sam asking an audience one question. i want to ask everyone if your

child or family member was abducted today, if a madman came in, terrorist came in and abducted your family or child and i said to you can i bring your child home, does it matter how i bring him home. fascinating question. have you asked yourself that question? what would be the answer? >> i mean, i would give anybody free power to do whatever they wanted to if it was a family member of mine, and i myself would do it, you know, and i think if somebody were to take a family member of mine, there's nothing i wouldn't do to get them back, and there has been all kinds of debates, and i love that this movie brings this up, this controversy is what -- can you put wrong against wrong, violence against violence, and who does he think he is to decide he's the arbiter of this, but this is an insane situation

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if ever again i meet him, he's mine or i am his. >> another one of the four films you have coming up, directed by ralph fiennes, a fellow brit. i suppose that kind of brooding magnificent look is what drives women mad about you, gerard butler, which is, of course, what sickens the rest of us in the male race who don't have that affect on women, so when did you realize this kind of look that you have was going to turn women wild?

>> i don't know if i ever worked that out. i always thought bearded guys were less attractive to the female population, you know, i just liked it. i always loved having a beard, it gives you a very kind of strong look, and it's worked for a lot of my characters, but i always imagined women go ew, beard, feels weird when you kiss me. >> you've been linked with just about every sexy woman in hollywood, jennifer aniston, jessica beal, you probably met at least some of them. >> reese witherspoon, i've never met reese witherspoon. >> you said it was a brilliant cover-up to what you've actually been up to. they are all chasing jennifer aniston when i don't think you've ever been near jennifer aniston, not in that sense. >> no, exactly.

every day i read something about somebody different, and even reese witherspoon, i actually don't think i've ever met reese witherspoon, okay, there's a new one. so i think i can say that maybe 4% of those reports i read are anywhere close to correct. >> do you care that much? you're a single guy, you're not married, you play heartthrobs in kwiefr -- quite a few of these rolls. >> sometimes i think people will start to judge you and form an opinion of you, and often these rumors come out and even who promulgate the rumors, they are a joke, they start to do it tongue in check, but when it's happening every day, look at the

work i did in "machine gun preacher," i also work really hard as an actor, and as long as that doesn't get in the way of people's judgment of you as in you don't take your craft seriously, because i do take my craft very seriously, and if it's a brand extension, that's great, because some people say hey, it's no big deal. it doesn't get to me at times, at times it feels it gets ridiculous, but there will be a day when that stops when i'm saying let me on the show again. >> it's taken you long enough to get you on to start with. have you worked out what your dream woman would be, from all the experience you've had playing the field, have you actually worked out in your head what kind of characteristics and looks the one needs to have? >> i could give you something, and then walk out of here and see a woman that's absolute opposite and go oh, wow, because i don't think there's a definite type. my type would most likely be taller with dark skinned and darker hair. hey. >> what kind of personality? >> i love vivacious and a good heart, and then there's a -- you know, a woman has to be sexy. they have to be sexy.

>> what do you mean, sexy, it's not necessarily looking beautiful. >> it's something you can't define, maybe one woman is sexy to me that's not sexy to somebody else, but there's some women you're with and make you feel excited, you know, and frisky, and just sensual. i love sensuality in a woman. >> if you could be trapped with one famous woman on a desert island, hypothetically, not real. if i was going to send you there for a year, who would it be? >> oh, god, i'm looking over, i see people -- don't do it, don't do it. >> there's nothing to lose here. she'll be flattered. >> maybe monica belucci. >> good call. that's a good call.

that's not going to be a long year. that's going to fly by. might have to make it two years. gerard, it's been a pleasure, seriously, and it's a fantastic movie. it's out this weekend, "machine gun preacher," all the very best with it. er. i say 1-sheeter. [ female announcer ] in this lab demo, 1 sheet of bounty leaves this surface as clean as 2 sheets of the bargain brand. super absorbent. super clean. bounty.

deepak chopra, doctor, spiritual teacher, author, and long-time friend of michael jackson's.

deepak, i want to read you back what you said the day after michael jackson died. you wrote, i hope the word joyous is the word that rises from the ashes and shines as he once did, michael jackson will be remembered as a shadowed icon, pop genius, for 20 years i've observed every aspect, and as easy as it was to love michael and want to protect him, his sudden death yesterday seemed almost fated. what did you mean by that? >> you know, once i talked to michael, we used to discuss big issues, including life and death, and he said to me once, i'd rather die like elvis presley than marlin brandao. what do you mean by that? he said i'm not going to go out with a whimper, but with a bang, and in many ways, he had a death

instinct, just as he had a life instinct. he was -- he was in this world, but he was not of this world. >> you described him in that quote after he died as a mutant of fame. you've met lots of famous people over the years, do you think this is a common thing he went through in a bigger scale, is fame itself an addictive drug? >> fame in itself is an addictive drug, and fame creates an image in which you cannot add up to, at some point the image is defiled and everyone gets enraged. when, in fact, they created the image not conforming to reality, no image ever conforms to reality. >> the key thing from michael jackson was his dependence towards the end of his life on various drugs. what did you know about his drug consumption? >> well, michael only called me when he was totally sober and was off drugs. he did mention almost eight

years ago to me, he said deepak, are you familiar with this thing that takes you to the valley of death and then brings you back from it, and at that time i had no idea what he was talking about, but obviously he was talking about propofol, the anesthetic that finally killed him. it took him to the valley of death and did not bring him back. michael was a controlled substance addict. he could stay off, and then he could be on again, and i think during the period that he was rehearsing, there were periods when he was totally fine. he was practicing, he had a lot of strength, he had a lot of vigor, a lot of freshness, he left a message on my phone two days before he passed on, and he was very excited, both about the tour, about a new song that he was writing about the environment called "breathe," and he said call me back, and i'm really excited, so he didn't

expect to die. i can tell you that must have been what it ultimately was, an accident, dr. conrad didn't intend to kill him. he used a drug that shouldn't have been used outside an operating room. he miscalculated the dose, there were probably other things in michael's system, it was a tragedy. >> i want to go to propofol and dr. murray after the break. first of all, i want to take you back to 1984 and the pepsi commercial accident michael endured, when he suffered pretty horrendous burning in this. many people close to michael jackson have said since that the damage that was done to him then led to a lot of his dependency on painkillers, sleeping tablets, and so on. what's your understanding about the repercussions of what we're watching here on screen? >> it's a common story, piers, when one has a very severe injury, traumatic injury, that

leads to a lot of pain and one gets narcotics, and if one has an addictive personality, which may be partly genetic, then one gets dependent. the key here is for a doctor to be aware of this and to be very careful in prescribing drugs. i think michael's addiction was initiated by, and then perpetuated by, careless doctors. >> did he ever talk to you about the pepsi accident? because it was much worse than people realized. he was severely burned. >> yes, he did talk to me about that many times. he talked to me about the excruciating pain, and when i mentioned the potential problems of drug addiction, he'd say you don't understand. you don't understand how deeply i feel this pain. when i used to question him, perhaps not correctly, i used to say a lot of your pain is emotional, because he was a tortured soul right from his

childhood, and there were emotional components to his paint, but -- pain, but i not question the physical aspect of his pain. >> even as he approached 50, he seemed to have a child-like side to him himself, but is that realistic or can somebody who's such a successful businessman and entertainer really be child-like, or was it a bit of an act? >> well, in a sense, we're all multiple personalities, he was child-like, and he was innocent, and when he was innocent and child-like, he was a genius. genius performer, genius musician, genius song writer, genius composer.

he was also, on the other hand, very versatile in his knowledge of classical musicians like beethoven and mozart, and he was very familiar with the history of musical thought and even intellectual thought and even scientific thought, so there was a lot of facets to michael. he was a very sharp businessman. i saw him mostly when we were in a playful mood, and i never discussed business with him. once in awhile he'd bring up something about how everybody was trying to take advantage of him, but other than that, i never got into that aspect of his life. >> i want to take a short break. when we come back, i want to get down to what happened on the night michael jackson died, what your view is of the medical behavior that night of dr. conrad murray, of your expert opinion. [ male announcer ] when men don't choose what's right for their face, they can end up with shaving irritation. ♪

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♪ >> hold for applause, hold for applause. >> this is it, that was michael jackson's last rehearsal, film just before his death. with us now is deepak chopra. deepak, when you see michael there, there are conflicting reports, he looks healthy, he looks fit, he looks raring to

go. talk to jermaine jackson and members of his family, they say there's lots of outtakes where he looks completely different, where he looks exhausted, he looks frail, he looks fragile. what was your understanding of his physical condition through this period? >> well, piers, i wasn't there at those rehearsals, i talked to some of the people later, the producers, who said he was pretty strong, he was pretty vigorous. those periods of rehearsal are quite long and exhausting to anyone, but a person who's about 50 years of age, that's pretty good. i also talked, at some point, to the nanny who took care of his children, and she said he was a really strong person. now, i can't comment on what the family's saying, but in my interactions with him on the phone, he was very enthusiastic, his voice sounded good, i didn't think he thought he was in a

state where he was going to die at all. >> i mean, it seemed to me, i saw him perform in concert in the '90s, he looked a hell of a lot skinnier and thinner just before the "this is it" tour. i had tickets to his first night, but he looked a lot, lot smaller than he had been previously when i saw him. did you notice that with him? jermaine says he'd never been that thin. >> yeah, well first of all, he was getting older, so that comes with age, and to some extent, secondly, i think it had to do with the drugs and water retention, and the drugs as well, so he had gained weight, and he was, obviously, not in the same shape when you saw him many years before. >> tell me, deepak, i want to get to the nitty gritty of this trial, really, which is propofol and the right of a doctor to administer propofol, where you're allowed to do it, where you're not.

you're an endo criminalist, are either of you legally allowed to administer propofol in a private house? >> i don't think so, and neither a cardiologist or an endocrinologist should administer. only an anesthesiologist should administer that drug. it should be done in a hospital, preferably a operating room, and you should have a ventilator just in case they stop breathing. that's what the drug does. ultimately it involves the centers in the brain responsible for breathing, and if you overshoot your dose, there's no coming back, and it should not, therefore, have been used, and, you know, several viles were brought, enormous amount of supply was there, and it was all being administered at home, so

that is for certain, it should not have been administered outside of a hospital. >> you believe, i think, that michael could have been saved. what struck me is a lot of people around him that cared about him clearly knew about his terrible dependence on these drugs. why did no one perform a kind of intervention and try and get him off this stuff? >> there were a couple of interventions to no avail, and the people who called the interventions were then never in his life after that, so, you know, michael made those choices too, but it's a complex thing, you know, addiction is a very complex thing. there's no one person you can point the finger at here. if anything, you can say the pepsi accident was the tipping, you know, was the initiating

point, and right then people would have to be careful. after that, history took its course. >> i want to come back after the break, deepak, and change the subject, if i may. i want to bring in your co-author, you've written a fascinating book in which the pair of you go toe-to-toe, war of the world views, science v. spirituality. capital one's new cash rewards card gives you a 50 percent annual bonus. so you earn 50 percent more cash. if you're not satisfied with 50% more cash, send it back! i'll be right here, waiting for it. who wouldn't want more cash? [ insects chirping ] i'll take it. i'll make it rain up in here. [ male announcer ] the new capital one cash rewards card. the card for people who want 50% more cash. what's in your wallet? sorry i'll clean this up. shouldn't have made it rain. sorry i'll clean this up. after your dishcloth? bounty extra soft can help. in this lab test bounty extra soft

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the latest book in collaboration with a physicist who wrote war of the world views will close us out. let me start with you. talk me through the concept for this book. the idea seems to me that you and deepak go head-to-head and toe to toe over spirituality. >> that's the basic idea. for me the book is really two things. one is a chance to explain to people really how science works and what's the scientific method. and the other one was really a natural outgrowth of my book "the grand design" that i wrote with stephen hawking about how we wrote about the universe and where it came from.

we talk about that in this book. we talk about life and where life came from and what it means to be alive. and then we go deeper and talk about what it means to be human and the human brain. and then deepak insisted we treat the issue of god and what is the meaning of god. and is there a god? that's a little bit of a stretch for a scientists. scientists doesn't deal with god. i managed to take a few things. >> that is my question, do you believe in god? >> i believe in a kind of god. i think all scientists in a way believe in a certain god, in a certain order of nature. but in psychics, all can you do is predict consequences of physical laws.

>> well, it's the eternal mystery. but in psychics, all can you do is predict consequences of physical laws. and then people made a big deal >> let me go to deepak. my sense in all this, you're more of the believer. you're more into the god is this super being and, therefore, has powers beyond our comprehension which in my view as a believer, makes it a lot easier.

my problem with all these scientific experts is that it's all very well until you get to the point of nothingness. what is nothing? where did nothing come from and what was there before nothing? they can never answer me. so i prefer to have the power, if you like, of a superpower who knows all the answer who's just has a better comprehension than i do. what do you think? >> well, it's the eternal mystery. i just put leonard in the book. in the book leonard specifically says that science cannot and will not say that god is an illusion which is a total contradiction to what richard dawkin says. leonard also says in the book, science cannot answer why there are physical laws or why the universe obeys physical laws. you know, why leonard asserts randomness to the universe, he can not explain how randomness

gives rise to precise physical laws. where do these laws come from? leonard also says in the book very clearly that science does not address the meaning of life. now i say you to, that's what being human is all about. you know, i want to know who am i? where did i come from? do i have a soul? does god exist? what happens to me after i die? >> where do you think you go when you die, leonard? >> i think when, you know, ashes to ashes, dust to dust. that's what i think. >> that's it. that's the end of leonard? >> you know, i would love to think that it's not. trust me, i really would, just as you would. i just somehow don't let that desire doesn't sway me. my belief is that there is nothing more than -- i mean it's

beautiful that my add toms can bring this person that i am and the feelings that i have and it's wonderful they formed that, i don't believe there is anything beyond that. >> so a grim end for you. deepak? >> i think we go back to the infinite consciousness where we emerged from. i think an individual person is a fashion of behavior of a universal consciousness and that is constantly transforming and changing. you are not the same person that you were when you were a baby. that baby is dead. you are not the same person that you were a teenager. that's gone, too. so you keep on your eternal journey of transformation. and you have to shift your identity from that of a person to a more cosmic perspective. and i do think we have a cosmic identity. we are a drop in the ocean of divine consciousness. and we recycle from there.