he still believes amanda knox is guilty and has vowed to take this case to the italian supreme court. >> tonight, joel osteen, christian rock star preaches to faithful millions. >> is homosexuality a sin? your eyes? >> yes, i've always said it shows it's a sin. >> he's answering more questions. >> how do you explain a just god can allow the atrocities to happen. >> the world we live in is not a perfect world. >> what is your view of state executions?

>> i'm for second chances and mercy. yet, there's consequences to what we've done. >> if i ask you about abortion, what would you say? >> my view is that every baby should live. >> do you find it a bit of a minefield? >> i enjoy it. >> joel and victoria osteen. >> great to be back with you. >> still praying for you. >> this is piers morgan tonight. >> welcome back. >> thanks. >> only yesterday you were gracing me with your presence. you're here. you have this great new book. every day is a friday. how to be happier seven days a week. i'm thinking to myself, you are the two happiest people i've met anyway. how could you get any happier? >> i think we all can, we've learned what to ignore, certain battles not to fight. we can all be improving and growing and being happier. >> why fridays?

when i came to new york in particular, i was horrified that on fridays my staff all came in dressed like, you know, people on the street. because it was apparently dress-down friday. and i was like, what does that mean? and it means you dress badly and wear jeans and old t-shirts an things. i associate friday with this unkempt sort of misery. why have you selected friday as a day of great joy and happiness? >> for the most people, the study shows people are happier on fridays. >> why? >> people are looking forward to the weekends, relax, done with work. there are more heart attacks on monday than any other day. >> stress of going back to work. most people don't like their jobs. i don't really like fridays, everything winds down, everything slows down. you're not really working as hard, i don't really like it. >> i'm the same way. we work weekends. i enjoy what we do. but not everybody is like that. just the thought is in general,

you heard that thank god it's friday. we have the right perspective, we don't have the thread going to work. even if it's not the perfect job. you have the right perspective, i'm alive, healthy. you can enjoy each day. maybe not jumping up and down, but you can enjoy it. >> the theme is you make your own decisions about your life and your life will be happier. is it as simple as that. a lot of people through circumstance are not in a position to do much about their lot in life. it's an easy thing to say. and the critics will say, what about you, joel, you're worth $100 million. what about the poor guy trap in a factory job or something or no job through lack of opportunity, a bad circumstance, is unhappy because he can't get out of that. >> well, piers, to me, faith is all about learning to be happy where you are. it doesn't take any faith to be happy when everything is going your way. when the economy is great, when you get good grades. but there are many people in a situation, it seems like they're stuck. but my belief is if you put your trust in god, you can have peace, you can be happy right

where you are. i say this, if you don't get happy where you are, you probably won't get to where you want to be. these are tests you have to pass, as far as i'm concerned, you have to pass the test, god, i'm in a job, i don't like it. i've got medical problems. i'm going to be good to somebody. i'm going to put a smile on my face anyway. to me, you're releasing your faith. >> do you believe fundamentally money can make people happier? >> you know? ? >> you're shaking your head, why? >> it helps. but i've seen people who are very wealthy and they're unhappy. they don't have good relationships or bad health. >> i met more unhappy rich people than poor people. i say that, i went to south africa, i went to the soetto townships, living in complete poverty, some of the happiest people i met. their spirits were alive with happiness. i didn't understand it. it was a fact.

i saw it with my own eyes. why is that? you must have been in many of these places over the years. why can poverty-stricken people sometimes find joy in their lives. >> i think there's not so many distractions, i think they have their priorities where they love their family, they're with their family. they don't have a million things getting them offcourse. they take every day for what it is, just the simple things in life. getting up enjoying family time. not allowing us to fight our battles. >> is he ever angry? content happy chap? >> angry? no, is he content? yes. i think he chooses it. i think there's things that's stressful. >> what flips him out? what gets his goat? >> he doesn't really flip out. he likes things to be right. i watched him when things aren't right. he chooses to see the best in the situation. he's great about finding what is right. you know? because a lot of people have a tendency to -- >> what's the last time you had

him -- >> never. >> you never heard him snout. >> no, he's never shouted. if you live with me and you don't shout, you're pretty good. >> you're a live wire. i remember from our last interview. i imagine you can be quite lively. >> i like to keep things hopping. >> do you have a temper? >> do i have a temper? i've grown out of my temper living with him. >> so he really is this bastion of calm and serenity. >> infectious. >> ever shout at anybody? >> no, that's not your personality. i've been like this my whole life. >> you never shout in your life? >> well, i probably have, you know -- >> when was the last time? >> i can't remember. >> he doesn't shout. he doesn't really shout. he does have a look when he'sing a aggravated. >> that's when you know. >> that's blind fury. >> kids, let's go. be right. >> what could ruin your friday?

>> i don't know if they ruin my friday, but i like things to be right. i like -- you know, i like organization. you know, i just -- i like to -- i expect excellence, but not in the wrong sense. but i believe we're supposed to be excellent. if we put things into place and people aren't doing their jobs, there are times when people think, come on, guys, let's get going. i choose to use that energy to make things right and not yell at people. >> you ever had a fistfight? >> never had. >> not even when you were a kid. >> my brother -- >> that doesn't count, brothers deserve it. >> you would wrestle, not fistfight. >> no. >> been punch in the face? >> no. >> never? >> never have. >> incredible life you've had. >> been blessed. >> have you been punch in the face? >> yes. >> you have? >> many times, yeah.

it was all part of life's rich tapestry. i think i've missed out here. a life of total serenity. >> we all have challenges, we all have to -- the scripture calls it fighting the good fight of faith. god is in control. and i used to get frustrated when things weren't happening the way i wanted it to. i had everything worked out. my plans didn't go the way i wanted them to. god, here's my plans for today, if it doesn't work out, you're in control, you're opening the right doors. we don't hear a lot that god closes a door on purpose. i used to think, god, that was a good opportunity, why didn't it work out. god knows what's best. >> we had the tenth anniversary of 9/11. it's extraordinary being in america. i was in new york city after it happened, i came back here after the anniversary. it's hard to tell god-fearing people who prayed all of their lives, it's hard to tell people when they lost relatives in that kind of thing, there's a merciful god. they want to -- many of them, if

they're devout christians or muslims or all of the denominations that parished on that day, what do you say to them? how do you explain that a just god can allow these kinds of atrocities to happen, ruining so many lives? >> it's difficult, piers, but the world we live in is not a perfect world. we're living in a fallen world. to simplify it, god's given us all a free choice. we can do what we want to do. unfortunately, some people choose to do evil. god didn't make us as robots. it's hard to explain god is good. god could have stopped it, he didn't. but there's much about faith that i don't understand. >> but does your faith ever get dent? >> it -- >> it sounds really unequivocal. i watch you on sunday mornings, it's fantastic. you're an inspiring speaker.

i wonder, i had relatives to renounce their catholic belief and their faith in god after the holocaust. who lived through the war and couldn't understand how any god could allow 5 million jews to be -- have their lives taken with such a ghastly manner. i find it difficult. what do you say to people who say, again, i can't continue to have this faith. some appalling thing has happened? >> you know what? that happens from time to time. but, again, i go back to the fact that, you know what, having faith means you're going to have unanswered questions. that's what faith is all about. so i can't explain why parents won't come to me and their child has cancer. i still believe god -- >> what do you say to them? >> i say god's got you in the palm of his hand. none of this is a surprise. you may be hurting, our hearts break with you. we're going to pray for you and god's going to give you a strength that you never felt before. turn to your faith and don't get bitter and blame god and everybody else and give up our your dreams, somehow, some way god can bring good out of it. he can bring you a new beginning. you'll never get your loved one

back. god can make you fulfilled. >> have you had your faith dent? >> never had. like what joel is saying. we want to see everything happen. but god is a supernatural god. he can bring grace and comfort in your life by a state of peace and joy. >> moments for example when something bad is happening in your life and something that's affected you badly. you prayed to god to have that situation end in a happy way and then it hasn't. your prayers haven't been answered. in that circumstance, do you not feel slightly let down? >> you know what? i can't tell got what to do. i can ask god what to do. i can ask him to do things for me. i know many my core, he's got my best interest at heart. it may not look good, but somehow, some good can come out

of it. you know what, you can't bring people back. you can't bring things maybe that you lost back sometimes. but god has a way of somehow getting you out of yourself and into a new place in your life. >> take a break and come back and talk to you about executions which is a burning issue right now. many people believing that america could join the rest of the world and abandon executions. [ male announcer ] when men don't choose what's right for their face, they can end up with shaving irritation. ♪ get gillette irritation defense shave gel and gillette fusion proglide razor to help defend against five signs of shaving irritation. ♪ try gillette fusion proglide

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>> i am what it says i am. i can do what it says i can do. today i will be taught the word of god, i will be cob vinced, my line is alert, my heart is receptive, i will never been the same. >> do you ever watch yourself back on tv? >> i do, i still edit my sermons. >> do you? >> i still edit them. i did that for 17 years for my dad. so after i speak my sermon, i like to edit it. i like to see where i messed up, where i can do better. >> almost word perfect. you have an extraordinary style. how do you develop that? >> my mother has a great memory. i started, my dad spoke extemporaneously and would go.

i couldn't do it. i had to write out what i say. mine, i go over it two or three days and it can come out good now. >> huge pressure, so many people tuning in to watch the sermons, you can't get it wrong. every word gets analyzed. >> you do, you have to -- it makes me very responsible in what i'm going to say because people are going to, you know, some people are making decisions based off of what you're saying. you have to say, how is this coming across? this is how i mean it, but how is it coming across. >> there's a recent survey i found fascinating. "new york times" named you the most influential figures worldwide on twitter. you beat lady gaga, justin bieber, rachel maddow, big tweeters themselves. they deemed your influence assessed by number of your tweets that were re-tweeted exceeds all of them. you have proper influence and

help. >> i felt honored when i heard that. we found that people come to us for inspiration. for the little quotes. so we tried to stay focused on what can i speak to people to help improve their day. my tweets are not about what they did that day. it's about what they can use. and if you give people good material, they like to pass it on, but the fact is, there's a lot pushing us down, a lot of negativity. you tell somebody, go out and be good, make someone's day and god will make your own day, we give small tidbits. >> the forgiveness of sins is one of the central tenets of christianity. you're by nature a very forgiving man. i watched you give the sermons. what's your view of state executions. and the troy davis thing which

happened recently by common consent, there was enough doubt that that man really could not be 100% said to have committed the crime. and certainly no dna evidence. what do you think of the whole issue. >> it's a complicated issue, piers, i haven't thought much about it. i'm for second chances and mercy. yet the flip side is there's consequences to what we've done. so i don't know what my stance is. >> a life for a life? >> i don't know -- i don't know that that's -- it's hard for me -- >> i don't think you can say that. i've had this debate before about these things. you can't be the man who influences millions of people and sit on the fence about key moral issues like that. key moral stroke ethical issues. >> i think the thing is we have

a justice system. i believe in our system of justice, number one. part of me, the human part of me, the merciful part of me is, wow, let's give everybody a chance and if there is any -- you know, it's hard for me to say, yeah, let's kill this person because he's so bad. they can be redeemed and forgiven, but they may have to be put to death. that's hard for me. i don't know what's the right thing. there are people smarter than me that make the laws. i do stand by -- >> two-thirds of all executions in america take place in five states, southern states near where you're from, including texas, texas is well known, may even be the highest in terms of executions for any state in america. so i guess the part of your issue unless i'm wrong is a lot of your brethren that come to watch you presumably would support the death penalty.

>> i think so. i think -- i don't know for a fact, but i think many of them -- many people do. just, again, i don't know the right answer. it's hard for me to tell somebody to be put to death. >> if you came out particularly in somewhere like texas. you came out and said, enough? i don't think we can continue with this based on the facts, joel, my problem with the whole death penalty debate and the statistics these days are alarming. over 100 people in america on death row have the sentenced commuted because of new evidence. 17 of them because dna evidence proved they didn't commit the crime. when you hear that, surely you begin to think this isn't right. and you have a lot of influence in your state. people have been watching this thinking, what does he think? is he in favor of state killings? or is he against it? they may take a lead from you. >> i don't know if i'm the one to give the answer. >> i'm not studied on it. i stayed focus on what i'm called to do. i'm careful about there's a more complicated herb shoe than that than to throw something out there and create a lot of waves. >> if i asked you about abortion, what would you say? >> abortion? i feel stronger about. >> what's your view.

>> my view is that every baby should live, that god's created that life. i feel strongly about. >> there's a contradiction between the sanctity of life within abortion and the sanctity of life for somebody who may or may not have committed a crime. >> sure. >> should there not be a more consistent view? >> i think there could be if you say may or may not. that's the troublesome thing if we don't know for sure. you know, and i -- >> how can you know for sure really? very few cases are completely clear-cut. and really it comes down to a general principle, whether we're in a civilized society, in a country with many, many people, tens of millions go to church every sunday. they look to religious leaders to say, what should we be thinking. they'll be a bit confused. so i know i do this when you

come. i feel you need to be more definitive. >> yeah. if i could, i would. let me study it and i'll come back with a great answer some day for you. >> i have to go to a break. i'm going to pin you to the floor on another issue where i tried to pin you on the floor before and see if your views have changed about homosexuality in light of the fact we have five states in america who support same-sex marriage. let's get chinese. should we order panda blossom, panda moon... how about chinese at home with wanchai ferry? you can make it in just 14 minutes. mmmh, orange chicken. great. i didn't feel like going out anyway. [ male announcer ] wanchai ferry. restaurant quality chinese in your grocer's freezer.

back with my guests, the osteens. last time you came on the show, you were excellent guests, this happened. i want to talk about it because it made a few headlines. >> homosexuality is a sin in your eyes? >> i believe, piers, the scriptures shows it's a sin. i'm not one of those out there to bash homosexuals and tell them they're terrible people and all that. >> so, i suppose the obvious question we did that back in january. has your position changed at all after that? because it raised a lot of headlines? a lot of controversy. since then, more states have endorised same-sex marriage.

it's becoming much less of a prohibitive kind of an issue than it used to be. what's your view now? >> it never changes. mine is based out of the scripture. that's what i believe the scripture says that homosexuality is a sin. i believe it before, i believe it now. i would reiterate what i said, i'm not after anybody, i don't dislike anybody. respecting my faith and believing in what the scripture says, that's the best way i can interpret it. >> shouldn't the scripture be dragged kicking and screaming to the modern age? we're talking before the break about eye for an eye, tooth for the tooth, not everything in the scriptures, really, is -- in my view, conducive to modern life. i mean, like everything else, does it have to move with the

times? do people like you to interpret it in a way that evolves -- you're known as a pretty progressive creature? >> sure, i want to be progressive, but sometimes when i read it, i can't see how you would change that, just like you would change other things in the scripture. i don't see how if you don't have a basis of truth, that's what i base mine off of, the scripture this, is the way i choose to live my life. you know, i don't think -- personally, 200 years from now, the scripture is still going to say that. >> the law of the land may not. it may not in your state. and the law of the land is changing fast. and your argument about executions, well, what is the law of the land in some place like texas. what about texas, an unlikely place to bring it in, but it may change, texas brings in a law that same-sex marriage is permissible, what would you feel if it's the law of the land. >> i'm gone to respect the law and i'm going to respect gay people like i do now. have plenty of people who come

to our church and friends, i would call, that are gay. i'm going to respect that. it puts it in a difficult situation, me being in a christian pastor, it would be against my faith to marry two gay people. >> you couldn't do that? >> it's against what the scripture teaches. that's where the rub comes in. it's not that i'm against anybody or if people want to live together, that's up to them. but my faith, when we say marriage, i think about, piers, all through the bible, there's hundreds of marriages but none of them are shown as between the same sex. and, i'm not against anything, but i believe that's what the bible teaches. >> you've uneasy. the last person was mahmud ahmadinejad who's the president of iran. he said no gay people are in iran. he said terrible things. what about the gay marriage debate? can you imagine attending a gay marriage between two people that come to your church? if they invited you? >> if it was that easy, that we

would have figured it out by now. but it's been overthrown, states go for it, they overthrow it. it's very difficult for -- >> they say it's easy. would you accept one or not? >> would i accept one? >> two gay people who attend your church invites them to their wedding. >> sure, i would go. if i had time, i would. >> if they were friends of mine, i respect them. i would go. >> you would watch two people you think are sinners committing the ultimate sin. >> i don't think it's the ultimate sin, but i'm looking at it from another point of view as respect to that person. it gets convoluted. but i look at it as respect for that person. >> could you in your position actually actively encourage people to go through the same-sex marriage? could you seem to do -- you'd be photographed at such an event. wouldn't that cause you problems? >> you know, if there's -- >> it's a hypothetical. >> lots of day people go to your church. >> i haven't been to many weddings lately to begin with. i'm talking about somebody who's

dear to us, i'm not going to disrespect someone who's dear to us and say you ear not good enough for us or something like that. that's the way i see it. now, i'm not going to go off and attend certain marriages just to make a statement because that's not who i am and not what i stand for. i don't look down on those people. >> after the break, let's talk a little bit more about politics. it's a bit of a minefield. what do you think of all of the republican runners and riders at the moment. who's been catching your eye as a leader for america. [ beep ] [ mom ] scooter? the progresso chicken noodle you made is so good. it's got tender white meat chicken. the way i always made it for you. one more thing.... those pj's you like, i bought you five new pairs. love you. did you see the hockey game last night?

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joel and victoria osteen.

let's talk politics. of all of the republicans right now, who do you think is the most impressive leader that you've seen? >> they all look like great leaders to me. >> that's a terrible answer. >> governor perry, the governor of texas, a friend of ours, a great governor, a great man, great friend to the ministry. i never met mitt romney. he looks fantastic. smart people. i can go down the row. i don't know. >> rick perry is not going to be a friend much longer if you keep saying how fantastic mitt romney is. you have to make up your mind somewhere down the line. pack the right horse. >> i'm taking it all in like everybody else. i'm an outsider looking in. >> you're republican army, it has to be. >> i voted both ways before, i'm conservative. >> you're very conservative. >> i like to vote on the

candidate. >> who do you like? >> who do i like out there? i'm still watching. >> you have to put an x by someone's name. >> good thing, it's too early. >> is rick perry your kind of guy? >> fantastic governor, he's done amazing things for texas. so, i think about let's see, let's see how he fares with all of this. he'll do well. >> what do you think of the key issues in society today? what do you think people most care about? >> i think -- are you talking about political issues or -- >> people come to your church, what's really -- >> i care about their relationships, their finances, and their health. >> yeah, that's what most people care most about. do you think politicians today are doing the right kind of thing? are thaw busy squabbling with people as clearly as you defined

it what the real issues are for people in america. >> yes, i think they're squabbling too much. >> they are? yes, they spend a lot of time shouting at each other. >> yes. >> what do you see when they're ranting and raving and being deliberately destructive to get things done. what do you think? >> oh i like most americans would hope they would work together. what i see that's difficult these days is any kind of compromise. and it's hard to get 100% of with a you want, just like some of the issues that we're talking about. it's getting more difficult for some people to have some type of compromise to say nothing is going to get done if we don't all come together. it's difficult. >> are you comfortable with a mormon won president? mitt romney or john huntsman? they're both mormons, would you

be comfortable? >> that would not stop me from voting for somebody. i would look at the total candidate, though. what's the experience, what's their education, what do they stand for. i don't think i would vote for someone just because they're a mormon or anything like that. >> are there aspects to mormonism which you find offensive. >> here i go again. >> how can you keep saying that? >> i bet you do, you don't want me to think you know a lot. it makes the argument more difficult. >> i haven't studied it. i hear things from time to time. there are certain things about the mormon religion i don't agree with. >> like what? >> i don't know -- >> there's different degrees in religion too. it's like being a christian. you can say, these people think it's okay to do this, this, and

this, you're christian. the catholic church, they won't let you do this, this, and this. this is degrees of how much you practice that religion. >> what are the things about mormonism that are awkward for you? >> i don't know enough about their beliefs to point out what they are to articulate it well. here's what i believe. mitt romney says he believes jesus is the son of god, he believes jesus is his savior. to me, those are the foundational things when i look at somebody, cow could i vote for them? do they believe the major things, i don't know what the rest of the church doctrine is. >> could you vote for a jewish candidate? >> sure. they're god's chosen people in the scripture. sure, i could. >> you don't mind particularly what religion? could you vote for a muslim candidate? >> i think i could. i would have to look at it all. but i would have to look at -- it's so hypothetical. because if we're talking about for america, 90% of america is christian. so i feel -- i'm pretty sure that i would find somebody that more shares my beliefs and is educated and qualified. so it's hard for me to go there because i don't think we'll come to that point. >> what do you make of what's going on with the palestinians and the israelis right now? >> it's a -- it's a difficult situation. it's been that way for so many years. we pray for peace over there.

we -- we stand with the israeli people. our hearts go out the to the palestinian people as well. they want peace, they want to live their life in victory. it's a difficult thing. >> you both went out there recently to israel? >> we did, we went out in february. >> how did you find that? >> it's peaceful. amazing, a country that's been under such conflict for so long. you hear stories in america like it's dangerous. you see the worst. and you go in there, the people are solid, peaceful, they have a lot of confidence in the fact that they're going to be okay. yes, they want to fight for what they feel like is rightfully theirs, but it was quite interesting, we had a night of hope over there, the auditorium was full. we had a wonderful time. we thought it was fascinating,

it brings the bible alive. you go to the place where is jesus walked, where you prayed, the disciples were, the sea o gallile, it was fascinating. >> we're all supposed to be peace-loving religions but they're excuses to kill people. >> it's been that way for hundreds if not thousands of years. it's a shame that we can't get along in the day that we're living in today that you think you still have to kill people to get your point of view. but it is difficult. but you have to keep believing and hoping and praying. you know? i think that's all you can do in some of these situations. >> take a break, come back and talk about osteen incorporated, the burgeoning empire of the number one rock star preacher in the world. you even hook like a rock star. [ male announcer ] a raw nose can feel really sore. achoo! [ male announcer ] and common tissue can make it burn even more.

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>> you ear going to have everything god intended for you to have. i believe it and declare it over each one of you. if you receive it, can you say amen tonight? >> amen. >> america's night of hope event. some of the stance on your business empire are extraordinary. joel osteen.com is one of the top sites in the world, on itunes, 4 million downloads a

month to your pod cast. you have a million daily requests for your e-mail, daily inspirational message. this is a stuff of empires. in 100 countries. do you stop to think, wow, how did this happen? i . >> i do think about this often. 12 year ago, i was running camera at my dad's church doing the production. i never thought i would get out in front of people. i never wanted to do it. i like being behind the scenes. when my dad died, i thought i was going to step up and pastor the church. never ministered before, but here we are. >> you make vast sums of money. the church takes in $18 million a year. all of that gets plowed paing in to the church, is that right? >> that's correct. >> the books that sell by the "squil lrk ion" you keep the cash. >> you take some as well.

>> we're big givers. >> we have to pay the light bill, yeah. >> you're like multimillionaires. >> we don't have any problem -- i don't think god has any problem with you being blessed. it's where your heart is. our heart was never to make money, become rich, do this or that. fulfill our purpose. >> you like being rich? >> oh i like being able to help others. i like to fulfill my dreams and it takes money to do with a we're doing. >> you're like willy wonka. you walk around bailing people out. you hear of problems and you go around the villages and towns. are you like that? you give to people to -- >> yeah, we give to people, the church gives to people. we support works overseas. we work with organizations to get child sponsorships to feed and clothe and educate children. we feel that's -- that's why god gives you influence, to help the world, to make it a better place. >> when president obama brings in as he wans to a new tax on

the super rich, everyone over $1 million which will include you guys, do you feel he's on the right track? should the rich be paying more tax? would you write more money to the treasury? >> again, piers, it's so far out of my league. i would do -- >> not you personally, do you mind paying more tax? >> i wouldn't be foolish. i don't mind doing what is agreed upon by the government. we will be great citizens and not complain. >> that's a different kind of question. would you like it? >> no, i would -- let them have all of the money and the government run great without the money and give it away to other people. it's not practical. we have to have infrastructure and all the other. >> what do you think i'd logically, principle of rich people paying more tax

generally? >> well, you know, i think they pay a good sum -- i pay a good amount of taxes right now as it is. > you're going to have everything is god intended for you to have. i believe it and declare it over each one of you, if you receive it, can you say a men tonight? a men. >> joel osteen's america's night of hope event in chicago. some of the stats on your business empire are extraordinary. joel owes teen.com is one of the top streaming sites in the world, with 500,000 viewers. on itunes you get 4 million downloads a month to your podcasts. you have a million daily requests for your e-mailed daily inspirational message. this is the stuff of empires. aired in 100 countries. do you ever stop and think, wow, how did this happen? >> i do stop and think about that often, especially when i never planned on doing this. 12 years ago, i was running camera at my dad's church. doing production. i never thought i would get out in front of people. i liked being behind the scenes. when my dad died, i felt like down in here i was supposed to step up and pastor the church, never ministered in public but here we are. >> you make vast sums of money. i think the church takes in $18 million a year but all of that gets plowed back into the church. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> on the books which sell by

the squilon, you keep all the cash? >> we're big givers. i promise you that. >> takers as well? >> sure. >> keep some of it? >> we don't have any problem, i it's lets fulfill our purpose. >> you're like willy won ca, walk around bailing people out when you hear about problems, swag bag around the towns? are you like that? do you give to people who come to you for help? >> sure, the church gives to people. we support works overseas. we work with organizations to question. would you like it? >> no, i would rather have all the money and the government run great without the money and i'd give it away to other people. obviously it's not practical. we've got to have infrastructure and all the other. >> what do you think idea logically of the principle of rich people paying more tax generally? >> i pay a good amount of tax right now as it is. we're going to come back after the break and talk about the nexgen ration of osteens. future for the empire. there's only one bottle left ! i've got to tell susie !

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you'll be pleased to know this is the final segment. three minutes of hell left, joel, and you're off the hook again. do you like being interviewed or do you find it a bit of a minefield? >> i enjoy it. subjects i'm not always familiar with, but i enjoy talking with different people, especially you. >> your two children are both beginning to show signs of real talent. alexandre sings, she's 13. jonathan is 16 in a band. would you like them to do what you did, take over the business if you suddenly weren't around? would you be happy with that. >> i'd be thrilled. nothing greater than for your children to follow in your legacy. i mean, i can't call them. i can't make them. it has to be a calling that they feel from on high. but you know, what i like about them is they're way further along than i was at that age.

i wouldn't get up in front of people. they're very comfortable and great kids. >> do they have to lead really squeaky clean lives? 16-year-old boys normally, this is around the time they're getting into too many points of cider and in the sheds with their favorite girl in town. do you have to keep an extra close eye because you're the osteens, everyone will be looking to trip them up? >> we try to set a good example in front of them and do our best. they're great kids. i'm sure they're going to have challenges like we all do. i don't feel -- my parents were never strict on me. we went to church because all of our friends were there. they're the same way. my daughter had to get to church at 7:00 the other morning. she said we're all getting there early. sometimes when you overpressure, i think the key, piers is to set a good example at home. we have fun. >> could you enjoy all this without victoria?

she's looking at you really adoringly. >> i wouldn't enjoy it half as much. i wouldn't be half of who i am without victoria. she has spoken faith to me from the beginning before i was a pastor. she used to say, one day you're going to pastor the church. that would make me mad. i would say i don't know the how to minister. she just kept speaking the faith into me. we have fun together, too. we take life seriously but we have fun together. >> how do you have fun together? what's he talking about? >> we have good conversations. we like to do a lot of outdoor things together. >> what's your favorite thing you like to do together on a friday when you're feeling your happiest? what's your perfect friday? >> we like to have a good dine dinner and like to either ride our bikes or just hang out and talk or you know, we may ask a few friends over. >> do you love him as much as the day you.

>> absolutely, and i respect imeven more. >> what's the secret of the joel osteen magic do you think? >> i think he's a man of his word. i think he's a man of his word. he's always looking for the best in any situation. he's very respectful. he's very generous, and he's very kind and he's extremely wise. >> would you agree with all of that, joel? >> that and more. >> left a few things out. he's good looking. >> you can't ignore it. you must get some groupies. >> oh, i have some kind people. i don't call them groupies but people feel like you've helped them. >> attractive younger women wanting to throw themselves at you? are you like tom jones? >> no, not in the work we do there's people that are respectful but i don't ever feel that. >> victoria, do you ever have to step in and just, back off, he's mine? >> well, you know, it's funny because when i'm out even by myself, this is what women say to me. victoria, i love your hud.