in the street. so that's why she needed to get her mac fixed. so some pretty sophisticated techniques. >> operating in plain sight as they say. jill, thanks very much. that's it for me. thanks for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." the news continues next on cnn. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com new fgs and important contradictions as herman cain denies sexual harassment allegations now threatening to derail his presidential campaign. >> in all my 40 years of business experience, running businesses and corporations, i have never sexually harassed anyone. >> a day after suggesting it was all a reckless smear cain does acknowledge he was twice accused of inappropriate behavior as head of the international restaurant association. >> i was accused of sexual

harassment, falsy accused i might add. i was falsely accused of sexual harassment, and when the charges were brought, as the leader of the organization, i recused myself and allowed my general counsel and my human resource officer to deal with the situation. and it was concluded after a thorough investigation that it had no basis. >> the restaurant association tonight says it won't and can't comment on personnel issues from 15 years ago. cain in his trademark outspoken style asserts in this lunchtime conversation he had no idea about the organization paid two women to settle their complaints. >> i hope it wasn't for much because i didn't do anything. but the fact of the matter is, i'm not aware of a settlement that came out of that accusation. >> what you heard there is very, very important. right there you heard mr. cain say he was not aware of any settlement. well, here is where tonight it

gets puzzling. now the washington examiner quotes a taped interview to air later on the fox news channel in which cain not only says he was aware of the settlements, he was aware of the settlements, he goes on to talk about them in considerable detail, saying he discussed the payments to one woman with the general counsel of the restaurant association. rain recalls the woman initially wanted a giant sum of money but then settled for two or three months' salary t. same herman cain said repeatedly earlier in the day he knew nothing about any settlements. after saying for more than a day he couldn't respond to the allegations, he says he's recalling one of the encounters with a woman cain describes as in her late 30s or 40s that led to one of the sexual harassment complaints. his shifting explanations tonight down right bizarre. the timing couldn't be worse for cain. the businessman has catapulted from nowhere to the top of the

republican battle and leading in south carolina. >> as a result of today's big news story, i really know what it feels like to be number one. >> the politico news organization reported the two female employees of the restaurant association complained to colleagues and supervisors about sexually suggestive behavior by mr. cain they found unwelcome, unprofessional and inappropriate. in one of the cases the woman complained of an unwanted sexual advance by cain at a hotel where the restaurant group was holding an event. at today's press club event mr. cain took an indignant tone. >> per the article, two anonymous sources claiming sexual harassment, we're not going to chase anonymous sources when there's no basis for the accusation. >> maggie haber man is one of the politico reporters who broke the story. she's with us from new york. i want to get into as much detail as we can because of the sensitive nature of the allegations.

mr. cain says these are anonymous sources and he can't respond. in your article you say his campaign staff was given the name of one woman who complained last week, and it was repeated to cain on sunday. he responded, quote, i am not going to comment on that. at least in one of the cases this is not at all anonymous. >> the name was provided to mr. cain on sunday outside a tv show, also asked him directly if he had ever been accused with sexual harassment. mr. cain's response was have you ever been accused of sexual harassment. they did have opportunities to address this. >> you say in one case you looked at the documentation. was it a he said she said or was there corroboration, were there crop rating witnesses. >> we saw documentation involving some of the allegations and settlement from the ira which involved a five-figure payout to two separate women in this one case

specifically. i think what i can safely say is these women felt very, very distraught about what happened. they were unhappy about what had happened and there is also language in these agreements separating them from the national restaurant association barring them from discussing specifics. >> i want to read something from the article. the women complained of sexually suggestive behavior by cain that made them angry and uncomfortable the sources said. the sources which include the recollections of close associates describe things that left the women offended. in one case at a restaurant association event, separate incidents. do you know how far apart they were? >> again, i'm going to stick to what we reported in the article. he was the chairman of the board of the nra between '96 and '99. so we're talking about a three-year tenure. >> he says he has absolutely no knowledge of these settlements. is that possible? anything to lead you to believe you would know? >> without going into specifics, i think it's unusual that there

would be a settlement that someone doesn't know, whether it's within the realm of possibility i suppose it is. again, mr. cain has gone from saying that he didn't -- wasn't aware of the allegations or the story itself was untrue to acknowledging that there were allegations made. >> is there anything in your reporting that would suggest this had anything to do with him leaving the restaurant association? >> he left the restaurant association somewhat abruptly. it surprised some people. but as of now, i think i'm just going to let it stand as we said. he went on to other endeavors. he had been looking at run forth president that year and he had a lot of other things he was looking forward to. >> as you know, the timing has many people asking why now. mr. cain himself thinks he's being targeted because he's gone from nowhere to the top of the polls. listen to him at the press club. >> i told you the bull's eye on my back has gotten bigger. i have no idea -- we have no idea the source of this witch hunt, which is really what it is. we have no idea.

we've been busy trying to get my message out. >> he says witch hunt there. as you know, some of his aides have said the liberal media going after a leading conservative. we've been in the business a long time. i'm not going to ask you anything at all about your sources and i never would. when you hear him say witch hunt, others saying it's the media going after a conservative, how would you answer that? >> i think we reported the story thoroughly. it's tightly done and well supported and researched story. i think that any candidate running for national office goes through a vetting process that many candidates have complained of including a large number of candidates who opted not to run because this is -- the hot light under which all candidates run nationally. this is very different than mr. cain's past campaign in 2004 he ran for senate in georgia. he did not become the nominee. i think it's very, very different when you're in apartmental race and when you're running closely. >> maggie haber man of politico,

excellent reporting today. thanks for your time. >> thank you. for a more personal perspective, joined by herman cain's former executive sis t t assistant. were you aware of these accusations? >> no. >> he never mentioned them or nobody ever brought them to your attention? >> not that i recall. >> so when you see the headline and you see the news reports and a man you worked closely with for seven years is accused of sexually suggestive language, other inappropriate comment, one woman suggesting he made an unwanted sexual advance at her, anything that in your presence would suggest he's capable of that? >> no, absolutely not. >> he jokes and says it's time to let herman be herman. he tries to have a sense of humor, some of the things he thinks are funny maybe voters won't find so funny. maybe that's part of his

interesting personal characteristics. any situations where maybe herman being herman or mr. cain being brash, being blunt might have rubbed somebody the wrong way? >> absolutely not. he was brash, he wasn't even blunt. i think some of the bluntness has come with doing the radio show which i think he kind of had to cultivate in order to be a good radio talk show host. he was never controversial. he was never argumentative. he was never anything other than charming, pleasant, interesting, so on and so forth. >> and today he acknowledged these two accusations, and he said he recused himself and turned it over to the hr department and general counsel and he was not aware of any settlements. we know two settlements have been made. you don't recall any conversations where he said, wow, sib by, these women,

they're investigating these things and i can't believe it? >> no. you know, i think it's possible that i remember some talk about it, but i think if there was, it was actually before i ever worked for him. so it was never a topic of conversation when i worked for him. it may have come up at one point. i may have heard it somewhere. >> when he traveled to the events on behalf of the restaurant association, did you travel with him at all? >> just one time i went to an national restaurant association event in chicago and my recollection is that we handled a book signing that he did during that restaurant association show. but that was the only one. >> there are women all around the country, men all around the country, too, but i'm assuming more so women who are hearing this today and saying is this possible? this is someone who has gone from nowhere to the top of the presidential pack. i want to give you a moment too

talk about how did herman cain interact with you when you're dealing with crises or big projects with deadlines. how did he behave around you in terms of how he carried himself. when he was frustrated, did he have a temper, things like that? >> he kind of makes it his own personal message to bring positivity where there's negativity. he's charismatic. he's funny. he's fun to be around. certainly when we're doing business, we're dealing with the business at hand, but in a way that is just a pleasure, even during the times where there were deadlines and where because of deadlines it was stressful. >> you worked at his side for seven years and you mentioned some of those situations are stressful or at least hectic and busy. was there ever once in that seven years where you said

herman, that's not appropriate language, herman i don't like your tone, herman, you crossed the line? >> absolutely never. >> never. >> never. >> do you keep in stuff with him? >> i do. >> when was the last time you talked to him? >> i think the last time i actually talked to herman on the telephone was probably -- i don't think it's been a year, but it's definitely been longer than six months. >> what are your politics, are you a cain for president supporter, republican, democrat, independent? >> i'm registered. i'm usually reg sterd as a democrat. i have voted for republicans in the past. there are many, many things about herman's political beliefs that i am 100% with, some not as much with. and i think if i were to have to vote today, i would vote for

herman. >> and you say you agree with some of his positions, not with others. i want to close this by asking you a character question, a character question. when you look at this man whose character now has been called into question, you would say? >> i would say he is a man of character, and that i just don't believe anybody who would question that. >> sib by wolfson, worked at herman cain's side for seven years. thank you for your perspective tonight. >> you're welcome. when we come back, more on the breaking news. at lunchtime today herman cain said he was aware of no settlements from the organization he once worked at. not only does he say he was aware of one of the settlements, he talks about it in great detail. a conflicting recount. what does that say about cain's crisis management? u too? they're high in vitamins and potassium. and idaho potatoes are now certified to carry

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[ gnome ] awwwwwwww. i just feel bloody awful. she told tiffany, stephanie, jenny and becky that she was coming to a place like this! but somebody didn't book with travelocity, with 24/7 customer support to help move them to the pool daddy promised! look at me, i'm swimming! ♪ [ gnome ] somebody, get her a pony! [ female announcer ] the travelocity guarantee. if your booking's not right, we'll help make it right, right away. from the price to the room to the trip you'll never roam alone. herman cain is learning a lesson many others all know too well. how a candidate and how a campaign handle a major challenge is a leadership test. presidents after all have to do a fair share of crisis management. let's walk through the evolution of cain's answers when asked about allegations of sexual harassment. sunday morning.

>> i'm strig to -- >> have you? have you, sir? >> that was the last question. thanks. thanks. >> have you ever been accused of sexual harassment? >> have a nice day. >> hard to hear, but notice he did not answer yes or no to the question of whether he had ever been accused of harassment. then this morning -- >> did you engage in unwanted sexual advances toward members of the restaurant association? did you ever engage in innuendo with any members of the restaurant association? >> no. >> a few minutes later, though, he was seated and ready for an interview on fox news and he did tell a much more complete account. he said he had been accused. he said they were baseless accusations burks he did recall two accusations. now we're getting even more information. mr. cain said in a lunchtime speech at the national press club he knew nothing of any

settlements by the national restaurant association tonight in a taped interview that will air on fox news, he not only says he was aware of the settlements but discusses at least one in considerable detail. is this response helping or hurting. let's ask three vet vance of crisis management in politics frchlt phoenix democratic strategist and adviser to bill clinton paul mcgalla. eric den zen hall, cnn's political analyst gloria borger. eric, you help people when they're dealing with issues like this. yesterday he wouldn't say yes or no to the accusations, had you ever been accused. in a way i almost understand if it had been new. politico asked for ten days trying to get a response. he still won't say, yes, there are allegations, he waits until he sits down for fox news. at the press club he says he's not aware of any settlements. and today he's not only describing the settlements. he says she wanted a big sum, we got her down to two or three

months' pay. >> here is the deal, these are very easy allegations to make. as a cost of doing business, people often pay them off. it doesn't mean you're guilty. but what works in business doesn't always work in politician. the couple of variables you have to look at in something like this, number one, are there optics, are there people diving in front of cameras to make it more sexy. number two, does the story become too interesting by virtue of changes. as a general rule, contrary to what people say about these situations that the more you tell the better it is? no. the real rum is the simpler it is. when you start getting into complexities and changing stories, that extends the half life. >> he's not getting into complexities. he's just changing his story. that's his problem, particularly when you're running a presidential campaign. he didn't know of a settlement. he knew of a settlement. >> i agree. >> tonight on pbs he says he was aware of a settlement. this is a presidential candidate. people cannot think you're lying

to them and he could clear it up, by the way, by telling the national restaurant association that he waves his confidentiality and let them release any documents. >> they may not be able to do that if the two women involved are also parties to it. paul bugala, i won't get into the details. you've been through rodeos somewhat like this. i'll leave it at that right now. this morning he says -- yesterday and this morning talking about reckless anonymous allegations. then here is what he tells fox news tonight, quoting the washington examiner, i can't even remember her name. i do remember the formal allegation she made in terms of sexual harassment. i turned it over to the general counsel, the woman in charge of human resources. they did investigate and it was found to be baseless. can your story continue to evolve -- suppose he's telling the truth. suppose these are baseless accusations and they were investigated and as eric says t price of doing business, they decided to pay a settlement to get rid of it, why not say that yesterday and end this? >> first off, good for you for

pointing out, this is still america innocent until proven guilty. i'm a democrat, mr. cain is republican. this is beyond that. they're old allegations. the problem in the campaign is it's a new story for us. a really old story for mr. cain. it was at least ten, 12 years ago. it is hard. he should have had his story ready. he should have been ready. he's not a veteran politician. and maybe that's why he's kind of bouncing around here. >> so some of this is basic common sense though. >> some of it is. one of the things to keep in mind is when you are the subject of a crisis, you are ten steps behind everybody else. a human being in crisis is not acting with machiavellian rationalism. a human being in crisis is very shaken up. he's been thrown into this situation. as a general rule in terms of what he does going forward, truman capote once said a party

is not thrown for someone, it's thrown against someone. the best thing to do in a situation is to say, you know what goes on in business, we don't build companies, we spend time dealing with allegations like this. >> that's what your staff is there. the person in crisis may be ten steps behind, but the people who run your campaign should be ten steps ahead and should be leading you and debriefing you and saying to you, tell us everything and then we'll figure out how to tell it to the rest of the world. >> if it were even a reasonably efficient campaign, paul, they would have already known about this, right? they would have sat down with the candidate with a bunch of people in the room including lawyers, what have you ever done? who will say you did something even if you never did it, right? >> and that's what they should have done. it is -- look, we talked about this last week. instead of being in iowa or new hampshire, mr. cain was at a dog track in la mark, texas, completely unconventional campaign. great charm in that. here is great peril. they didn't have their act together, he should have known

this was coming. it always does. you remember george w. bush like 20 years before he ran for president was convicted of drunk driving in maine. he never told. when it came out three days before the election, it did real damage. if he put that out in the beginning of the campaign, he could have weathered that storm much more nicely. >> i don't want to go back to the bush dwi. here is what i don't understand. here is a guy who has tripped over a few things in this campaign, abortion language he tried to clean up. he's said a few other things he's tried to clean up. yet you have to assume he knows about this, gives a lunchtime speech and says i'm not aware of any settlements. there was no vagueness in the language. this is a conversation with greta van susteren. she and her lawyer were demanding a huge financial settlement. i don't remember a number, but because. when asked how much money was

involved cain said maybe three months' salary. he taped that interview within a couple of hours of giving a speech in which he said i'm not aware of any settlements. >> you have to remember, this is not a politician, this is a corporate ceo. the problem with corporate ceos who become politicians is they go from people giving orders to people who are punching bags. it's not at all surprising to me that he's having this difficulty. >> this is either a lie. he either lied at lunch or he had some epiphany. >> i think that might be the case. >> even ceos have to be consistent about telling a story. >> there's no question. >> if you're on his campaign right now, running his campaign right now, paul, you've been in a situation not completely similar to, this but you're run ag campaign now and you're covering things as you go along that you didn't know and your candidate is changing his story, it's very difficult to ex-kate

kate your candidate out of this. >> if i were advising him, i would say focus on the opportunity cost. in other words, instead of just changing your story and shifting your story, first off, he put out the character witness, sibby wolfson who you just interviewed, very strong character witness. beyond that, get off it. every day he's talking about this is a day he's not talking about his tax plan or any other ideas he might have for leading the country. i think that's a better way of jujitsu than just saying i hate the liberal media. it's better to say, look, i came here to talk about x. i've answered those questions. there was a settlement. let's move on. i think eric's advice is good. the deeper he gets into this, the worse it will get. >> he has to be consistent. there's no correlation between how much you talk about something and whether the problem goes away. quantity is not the answer here. >> leaving unanswered questions out there is not a great idea, i don't think. >> eric, paul, hopefully the cain team is listening. good advice there.

maybe they'll take it. herman cain is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. up next we put cain's own words to tonight's truth test. [ male announcer ] for unsurpassed fruit and veggie nutrition... v8 v-fusion. could've had a v8. v8 v-fusion. we're going to head on into the interview. evan, sandy . . . evan .. what pushed you toward the explorer? it was less expensive. better technology inside. there was stuff that we have in our car that i didn't even know existed. how does your music gear fit in there? it fits perfectly. i mean, i got a keyboard, acoustic guitar, merchandise, cds to sell and it all just fits like a nice game of tetris. what would you say to a friend who's skeptical about buying a ford.

do you want to borrow my keys. sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business.

part of herman cain's appeal as a candidate is he's unscripted. herman being herman as he likes to put it. when disgust and distrust with politician ss running so dangerously but understandably high. like everyone else, mr. cain is

entitled to his opinion, but not his facts. here is noit's truth, he's at the edge if not over it already of what i'll call the presidential level discipline test. this has nothing to do with today's headlines about sexual harassment allegations although his conflicting accounts might add to that. this has to do with the pattern of slugging off policy blund ders. once or twice is acceptable, es spshl lip for someone new to the national stage. smiling at the thought of those trying to sneak past the border. then he said it was a joke. then not a joke. he told wolf blitzer he was up to swapping terror detainees for a hostage, then would never negotiate with terrorists. he's trying to have it both ways or simply keeps talking in circles on one of the most emotional issues in politician, abortion rights. this is today at the national press club. >> part of an interview i did was taken out of context. i am pro life from conception,

period. i have been that way for many, many years. i have not changed, and i don't plan to change. >> pro life, period. got it? would he support federal legislation outlawing abortion? >> yes, i would. >> and there would be no exceptions allowed? would that be the federal and state level? >> can't determine the state level, but i would support that at the federal level if that legislation were to come to my desk. >> that's clear, crystal clear. but wait. >> you've had children, grandchildren. if one of your female children, grandchildren was raped, you would honestly want her to bring up that baby as her own? >> you're mixing two things

here, piers. >> why? >> it's not the government's role or anybody else's role to make that decision. secondly, if you look at the statistical incidence -- it ultimately gets down to the choice that that family or that mother has to make, not me as president. not some politician. not the bureaucrats. it gets down that to fa family and whatever they decide they decide. >> no, mr. cain, nothing taken out of context. today was against abortion. no exceptions. you heard that same mantle piers morgan if a daughter or granddaughter was raped, it ultimately gets down to a choice that family or mother has to make a. choice means an exception, a choice means a right to have an abortion. remember today cain said he would sign legislation outlawing abortion. back to that exchange with piers

morgan. >> i can have an opinion on an issue without it being a directive on the nation. the government shouldn't be trying to tell people everything to do especially when it comes to social decisions that they need to make. >> so today it was, i would sign a law outlawing abortion. 12 days ago it was the government shouldn't be trying to tell people everything to do especially when it comes to social decisions they need to make. we're going to post this on our website so you can listen again and again if you like. but there's a word for what you get when you match up the then and now, on both the question of an exception for rape or support for a federal ban on abortions. that word is not, as mr. cain suggests, context. no, it is contradiction. and the truth is the evangelical voters, so critical to mr. cain's odds in iowa and south carolina, they tend to see this issue with clarity and they frown on contradictions. up next, another clean

energy company with government loans goes belly up. plus a virginia republican group sends a controversial halloween e-mail depicting a graphic image of president obama. what will the fallout be from that? that's ahead. we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy... we're at work providing power to almost a quarter of our homes and businesses... ... and giving us cleaner rides to work and school... and tomorrow, we could do even more. cleaner, domestic, abundant and creating jobs now. we're america's natural gas. the smarter power, today. learn more at anga.us. no pie today, ted? no, no, i just paid my car insurance bill -- ouch.

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welcome back. here is the latest news you need to know right now. nato's mission in libya ended a at the top of this hour.

the nato secretary general was in libya to congratulate the libyans on winning their freedom. they elected a new prime minister, he will serve eight months and oversee the writing of a new constitution. the united states today cut off all ties to unesco. that cut off because that organization accept add palestinian as a member -- accepted palestine as a member. another clean energy company has gone bankrupt. beacon power corporation received a $43 million loan guarantee from the energy department, that on top of more than $20 million in stimulus grants. the financial firm run by john corzine of new jersey.

erin burnett out front at the top of the hour. with all this big cain news you have a great guest, somebody who knows national politics and crisis management quite well. the governor of mississippi. >> that's right. he sure does. both of those things. talking about haley barber. he'll weigh in on herman cain. he's a king maker and big rainmaker in terms of money raising for candidates. he hasn't yet formally said who he will endorse. we'll talk to him about all those issues, we'll also talk about the next al qaeda. el shabaab is sort of an offshoot group but growing and growing, more and more americans involved. money coming from americans. there's threats of attack on american soil. plus, john, there is a vigil going on downtown, not related to occupy swaul street or the halloween parade. we'll explain what it is because we can't resist. that's the only hint i give you. >> i like when you can't resist. i'm curious. you got me. if that's how it works -- >> one by one.

all right, see you, john. when we come back, it's damage control time in the cain campaign. why do his conflicting accounts about sexual harassment allegations complicate his effort than focus more on the economy and taxes. that's next. erica, we believe in a future that is better than today. since 1894, ameriprise financial has been working hard for their clients' futures. never taking a bailout. helping generations achieve dreams. buy homes. put their kids through college. retire how they want to. ameriprise. the strength of america's largest financial planning company. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you, one-to-one. together, for your future. ♪ what's in the mail? well, it just might surprise you. because this is how people and business connect. feeling safe and secure that important letters and information don't get lost in thin air.

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herman cain insists he's

been, quote, falsely accused of inappropriate behavior of two female employees back when he was the rest of the national restaurant association in the 1990s. earlier today he said he doesn't know the source of what he calls, quote, this witch hunt. with is republican strategist ed rollins. democratic pollster belcher and republican ken blackwell served on the national commission on economic growth and tax reform alongside herman cain, a personal supporter of tx tk governor rick perry. i want to start by listening, mr. cain said he was not aware of any settlements, now talking in detail and a bit of a contradiction that has me a bit confused. he also talked about one of the incidents. there were two accusations when he was with the national restaurant association. he says they're baseless. listen how he recounts one of them in a conversation with judy woodruff. >> one incident with the one that made the formal charge, the only one that i could recall after a day of trying to

remember specifics was once i referenced this lady's height and i was standing near her and i did this saying, you're the same height of my wife. you're the same height adds my wife and she comes up to my chin. obviously she thought that that was too close for comfort. >> ken blackwell, you're a perry supporter be you know her man cain well. she says no way, no how. she can't believe any of this would ever happen. if that's the case, if that's the case, this is just not true, why is mr. cain making it very hard on us by having conflicting and evolving accounts? >> well, ed rollins and i have done a lot of campaigns together. i think we would agree on this. you tell the truth, you tell it quickly, you tell it all and you try to structure where you only have to tell it once. because as you dribble it out, you find that you contradict

yourself and that just gives the story more life interview after interview after interview. i think you have to start with telling the truth, full disclosure and do it once. >> and i assume you agree with that advice. what are we seeing instead? >> first of all, i don't think he know it is full story. if he doesn't, he needs to sit down with his lawyer, the same lawyer who was at the restaurant association when he was there and say give me the file, let me look at it, let me review it. what was i charged with, what was our settlement? otherwise there's no credibility to any of this. saying i think, i don't know, whatever. i hope he's innocent. i really do. i think he's added a great deal to this campaign. i will tell you this, if he doesn't get it right, he has an inexperienced staff who has never been in presidential politics. you the media base looking at all elements of his life. a perfect stranger to the vast majority of americans and he's going to get defined by this if

he doesn't do it right. he needs to, as ken said, get the story, tell the truth as painful as it may be and get it behind you and have it moving forward. he's a great communicator. he stands up today in the national press club and sang "amazing grace." that isn't going to work. this is a big league he's playing in, a potential front-runner by polls. at the end of the day, everybody wants to know everything about him. they'll find out everything about him. so it better be a truthful stofrry from start to finish. >> you're a democrat and not a herman cain supporter, but somebody who worked in campaigns, what's he doing right and what's he doing wrong? >> as a political professional, this drives me nuts because somewhere along the line in the campaign you have to sit down with your candidate and say what is there that's going to come out, especially when you're running for president. he does haven't enough campaign infrastructure around him to figure this out already is really bother some. the other part about this, and

my colleagues on the other end of this know this well, it's a rolling disclosure. every hour seems like something else comes out. that always looks bad. a rolling disclosure means what's at the end of this may, in fact -- the smoke may be leading to fire at the end of this. so this really looks really bad for him. >> and the timing is curious. we can all agree on that. the story comes out and politico says ten days ago or so they approached him at a time he's rocketing up in follows. you can agree the timing might be a little curious and somebody may have politico some research. but ed rollins, as a candidate in the campaign, you can't worry about that, right? >> you can't worry about it. you ought to do opposition research on yourself before you do it on anybody else. i had it done on mish michele backman. i always say, pretend i'm your priest, confess all your sins to me. i'll tell you you need to have

someone else look at this with a jaundiced eye, as ken can and my good friend on the other side, is this a seer use charge and will this come out and will it hurt you? >> ken, you know the man. i was asking his former assistant earlier. he says let herman be herman. he can be blunt, he can be brusing. he reminds me of ross perot, thinks the rules maybe don't apply to him. can you think of anything about him, just the way he conducts himself that might have made somebody feel uncomfortable? >> look, i think that herman is starting to distill what happened and he says that he -- what he recollects is he said you're about the same size as my wife. look, at the end of the day, folks have said that this was inappropriate behavior. even in the disclosure there was

not a charge of sexual harassment. it was one of making someone feel uncomfortable. be that as it may, ed is totall on me when he was guiding my campaigns. so that's -- this is -- you know, he's gotten a lot of points out of saying that he's not a politician. but at the end of the day, this is a political game, this is normal political fair, and you have to be ready for this sort of scrutiny of everything that you've said, any slip that you've made, and you have to be ready and -- you have to be ready for people to actually twist what you've said in the past. and i hope that he, in fact, puts it together. he has had a marriage for 43 years, and i think that speaks volumes itself. >> todd, can i say something quickly? this is also different from a lot of other accusations. sex sticks in a way that nothing else sticks. you can go bankrupt as a candidate, have financial problems as a candidate and get

over that, even felony charges and get over that. but there is something about sex and the american public that sticks to you in a way that is really unique and particularly for a minority candidate, it's problematic. >> he needs to fix it. >> he needs to fix it. when we come back, another candidate in the spotlight trying to prove himself, the source of tonight's number. that would be $15 million. that's how much governor rick perry has in his campaign war chest. and guess what? he's beginning to spend it on television in iowa. he's the first candidate up. this is wave one. wave two began spending some of this money. is that the key to perry 2.0? that's next. hey, everyone's eating tacos outside bill's office.

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herman cain tonight in damage control mode, rick perry blanketing with new tv ads and it's about to expand to south carolina. let's back to our conversation with michele bachmann's former reagan hand, you probably don't like being called that, ed rowlands. cornell belcher, as well, and ken blackwell, indoors. sorry about that. >> let me be a former black well campaigner. >> that's good. >> i proud -- >> that works. let's start -- look, it's -- i think we can all agree, rick perry has had a tough few weeks, so they're trying to have a perry 2.0, and they think the way to start is to reintroduce ourselves to the people to iowa. here is a snippet from his campaign ad. >> if you're looking for a slick politician or a guy with great

teleprompter skills, we already that and he's destroying our economy. i'm a doer, not a talker. in texas, we created 48% of the jobs in the entire country since june of 2009. >> let's drop it out there. we gave governor perry 20 seconds of a free ad. ken blackwell, that's a talkative, casual, relaxed guy, not the guy people have seen at the debates. he's got a tough hill to climb. statewide polling in iowa, down, three or fourth place. he's in single digits. are you convinced -- you've now endoorsed rick perry. you convinced 2.0 is ready to take off? >> he can do it. look, this is about defining and advancing. the four of us have always been familiar with the fact, you have to have message, you have to have money, and you have to have muscle or organization. perry will have organization. he has the money. he has to define himself with a

message, and he has to inspire and motivate. look, perry has -- perry has the opportunity to advance. it looks as if romney has hit a ceiling of about 23, 25%. but that 25% can win if there are six people dividing the rest of the pie. the reality is, he has to put enough money on the ground behind a message to inspire enough organizational muscle to show -- to scare off some of these people, or it's going to be a very tough hill to climb. >> well, ed rowlands, you used to think michele bachmann was going to win iowa. you think she'sot of gas and out of steam and ideas. if michele bachmann doesn't have a prayer to win iowa, does rick perry? >> bottom line, up with of them can win. perry has the resources. unfortunately, michele doesn't have resources. perry has to run a statewide race in iowa and south carolina.

spend all of his money winning those two races. he's won statewide three times in texas, he's never been defeated in 25 years in texas. both of those states combined are smaller than texas. he knows how to run a statewide race. that's what he has to do. forget the national stuff. go win iowa. go win south carolina. and the same advice i would give m m michele. she doesn't have the resources. lots of things happen after that. >> i'm not completely disagreeing with ed, because lord knows you shouldn't disagree with ed. but i would modify it a little bit. would i say this. compete in those states, but have the long view. he has weather to storm. if it he can get this through the first couple states and get into the long run with romney and let the others fall off, look, the conservatives are looking to coalesce around the candidate. if he can get in a one-on-one battle with romney, i like perry's chances.

>> he's got to win somewhere first, though, doesn't he? that reminds me of the rudy guiliani strategy. i'm going wait in florida for someone to come to me. >> it doesn't work like that. >> i think if romney wins iowa and new hampshire, it's over. if romney wins any two of the first three, it's over. so the fact of the matter is, i really think from a perry standpoint, you have to double down in iowa and south carolina. >> ed rowlands, does he have to win iowa? >> he has to win iowa. in our party, you have to win two out of the first three, that ends up being the nominee. and unfortunately, there is a challenger. whoever comes out is going to be the challenger. may be short-lived, not long-lived. >> how long do the positive ads last? when will he go negative? >> the bottom line here, you literally have two-thirds of the voters in iowa who have not made up their minds yet. it's very fertile ground. the conservatives want someone other than romney in that state