it is a long day. and carrying heavy wings and everything. >> those wings are heavy. victoria's secret chef. now i have heard it all. like i say every time a dinner bell rings a angel gets its wings on the ridiculist. i'm erin burnett, "outfront" tonight. the group of 12 taxed with axing $1.2 trillion from america's deficit. last night, we brought you what was frankly a breakthrough. the architect of the plan told us he would support an increase on tax revenues on some of the wealthiest americans. today the top democrat said toomey's plan didn't go far enough.

i'm erin burnett, "outfront" tonight. the group of 12 taxed with axing $1.2 trillion from america's deficit. last night, we brought you what was frankly a breakthrough. the architect of the plan told us he would support an increase on tax revenues on some of the wealthiest americans. today the top democrat said toomey's plan didn't go far enough. >> we came to the table to begin with and every day have said that for us it's extremely important. this -- whatever we end up with at the end of the day is balanced and fair and has real revenue on the table. >> we still haven't seen from the democrats is a plan that deals with our structural debt crisis that actually solves the problem. >> this bickering is pretty sad because $1.2 trillion is not

very much and it means this issue is going to come back really soon again. so can the super committee step it up? they have 13 days to be super heros and not thieves. tonight go go to the front lines with our strike team. that's the group of 20 entrepreneurs, ceos and investors that i picked to advise us on the economy. they were the first to call on this show we would not fall back into recession when conventional

wisdom across the country this fall that a double-dip was in full swing. the strike team was right. so we will go to them on the super committee tonight. david roberts is the ceo of the carlisle companies, a manufacturing company with more than 7,000 employees in 30 states across the country. dave, good to see you again. i wanted just to ask you, as a ceo who is considering hiring, which i know you are, whether the super committee is important to you. >> i think long term it is, erin. i think initially if they don't reach agreement in 13 days, it's not going to have a dramatic impact on what happens on our business. i think long term it will. i think what we'll see immediately is a downgrade of the -- of the u.s. credit rating. and you downgrade the credit rating, obviously, a number things start to happen. for instance, borrowing gets more expensive. i think more importantly is the value of the dollar drops, making it more difficult for us to buy commodities at a price that's reasonable. we'll end up raising prices because our raw materials will go up which will frankly just cause people or consumers to be spending more money for what they're buying. >> which is important. this downgrade issue is an important one. so when you think about hiring, what is holding you back right now? when you look at what we just heard, which is two member the super committee, well, sort of complaining about the other ones. >> well, i think folks are still very cautious out there. i mean, other ceos i talked to or i think everyone is still concerned about the future. we're looking at very short -- or small growth.

probably 2% to 3% next year, gdp growth. frankly, that's not enough to continue to go out and hire people. i think there's one element that the media's forgotten in this, is that, you know -- i look at our sales this year, it's up 25%. >> yep. >> half of that is acquired growth. the other half is organic growth. but half of that is actually price increase. so we need volume in manufacturing to go out and hire people. our volumes are actually lower today than they were in 2008, and until volumes come back and the consumer continues to buy, at rates that are greater than they are today, we're not going to have a need for people. technical people are different. we've always needed engineers and we will continue to look for engineers. but in our factories, till we get volume back, we're not going to have to hire people. >> dave, thank you very much, and good to see you again. >> all right, you're welcome, thanks, erin. john avalon, contributing senior economist for daily beast. we appreciate it. peter, do you think the super committee understands what really is at stake? when someone like dave roberts

lays out, we can get a downgrade, i would have to raise prices more for regular americans try to buy what i make? >> i think the s&p downgrade of the u.s. credit rating from aaa was a slap in the face and bluntly it was an utter embarrassment for this country. i hope from a market perspective and a d.c. perspective that it did create a sense of urgency. that they know that everyone is now watching them. time is up. and it's time to bring results to satisfy the rating agencies, to satisfy the bond market, and to satisfy corporate ceos that have been paralyzed by what's going on in washington. >> do they get it? >> they better. if they don't get it now, they're not going to get it. look, the clock's ticking. 13 days, as you said. they have the pressure to do that. another number two, 9%, the historic low approval rating for congress so they better get it right now. the thing is, they can't seem to get it together. the big question is, are they going to go for 1.2 or go big to four? >> first, this whole issue of 1.2, can you put this in context?

because in this country we throw around $100 billion, $200 billion, as if it's nothing. but $1.2 trillion really isn't very much, is it? >> it's nonsense. we have a $15 trillion nominal gdp economy. it's less than 1%. per -- if you take the 1.2 over ten years, $120 billion versus a $15 trillion economy. plus, the unfunded liabilities of this country is 50 to $100 trillion worth -- >> all the debt we have -- >> exactly. so it's a waste of time. the markets know that. while it's very important to washington and maybe it will satisfy the rating agencies, the markets know that unless you face medicare, medicaid and social security, this is just a waste of time. >> you go big, $5 trillion-plus. >> the market's going to force washington to go big, at some point over the next couple of years. >> here's the good news -- >> i think force will be bad. >> force will be bad and an automatic cut will be terrible as well, politically and prakty tickly. -- practically. the good news, a gang of 140 members of congress encouraging

the super committee to go big, to that $4 trillion number. the fact that toomey was willing to accept revenue increases from the former president of the club for growth, that's a big deal. >> point blank, does that mean the wealthiest americans will end up paying more in the new world than in the old world, yes, that's what he said. >> even though he's proposing a rate cut for the top, that is a step in the right direction. that's the kind of spirit you're going to need, with real purpose behind it. >> downgrade, how quickly would it come, do you think? >> within days if there's no deal after the cutoff in november. >> all right. well, thanks very much to both of you. hopefully they are watching and hopefully they will step up and be super heros. still "outfront," the state department announces they are looking for plans for an oil pipeline running from alberta, canada to texas. they said, no deal. we will talk about what went down there. and mitt romney stacks up well with president obama but sherk raising all the cold, hard cash.

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the number, 826,000. number one place in in the country for music sales. it is misleading. country music is popular but not as much as you think because new york city doesn't have a country music station. it bothers me all the time it has to do with the city's large population. it only accounted for 5% of the music population. you got to go 50 miles before you get a really great country station. it's a problem. major decision today at the crossroads of energy and the environment. state department announced it's going to study the route of a planned pipeline running from canada to the texas gulf coast. it's called the keystone xl oil pipeline and it would have crossed a critical aqua fewer over nebraska. environment groups did not like that. the people that liked it say it will cost jobs. today john boehner said it would

cost 20,000 jobs to not have it be built as planned. so politics are paramount. cnn's foreign affairs correspondent jill dougherty. this is a big foreign affairs issue because you're talking about perhaps the biggest oil reserves in the world in canada going through the u.s. and down to the gulf coast. >> and you know the argument for it would be, look, if we can get oil from canada or from other parts, let's say mexico, this could make a big difference. you could basically kiss the middle east good-bye. and the jobs argument certainly is big, too. but environmental groups are really furious about this. now, the president puts off this decision, which technically will be made by secretary of state hillary clinton, because it is an international borders issue. it puts it off until 2013. and if that rings a bell, it is because it is after the election. there's quite a political context, although the white house would say this is not a political decision. >> interesting.

and what's your take on it? it does seem rather interesting the time line when they will make the decision. >> it does. but i think it is really, really a difficult decision to make. the people who really hate the pipeline, and really want to kill it are the president's liberal supporters, people who support the environment groups. it's a very big -- i would say a very successful media operation. in fact, last week you had thousands of people circling the white house against it. but you also have big oil and you have people who support jobs saying, look, you can get 20,000 jobs on-line almost immediately, or at least the beginning of next year and that is crucial, too. it is not a decision that would be easy for the president to make either way. >> kick the can down the road, i guess. jill dougherty, thank you very much. let's talk about the politics of that and some other amazing political things that are

happening today. like herman cain's money making machine. senior political analyst david gergen and david fromme. good to have you with us. david, it is southwesting how a big decision like this gets put off until after the election. >> there may be reasons of substance that they need further study, but no one in washington believes that. it looks purely political. the president had to choose between the environmental block. they didn't really want this. he wants the votes and labor unions who want the jobs and he got caught in the middle. let me add another element. it is more than american politics. i have been up in canada the last six or eight weeks a couple of times. this is important to canadian relations and they are saying we thought you were going to do. this we invested and made a lot of reliance on doing this and by you putting it off, let's make it clear to americans, we have seen you as our partner for oil an gas.

we intended to sell your oil and gas. if you are going to screw around with this, we have an alternative, we will sell it to china. >> and they sure can do it. ship right in to vancouver and take it away. paul, what's your take on this? i want to bring you and david fromme in on herman cain. >> kicking the can has a long tradition for presidencies. >> including republicans. >> abraham lincoln had it with the emancipation proclamation. it is a big deal. the aquifer that goes from west texas to wyoming goes through the heart of it. the republican governor of nebraska under which sits a huge part of the aquifer opposes it. it is a difficult environmental, economic, international relation and political decision. i'd rather they get it right

than right away. >> obviously the western governors and republicans tend to be more pro environment than you may expect on party lines. >> it is about cool clear water. like the country song. glad to hear you are a country fan. >> >> he said it is not quite the emancipation pro-la mags. >> i want to get you in on the issue of herman cain. the whole situation continues and yet $9 million in the past ten days. it's phenomenal in terms of fund-raising. will it last in terms of polls? >> well, herman cain is not going to be the republican nominee or the republican front runner for much longer. he is a real phenomenon. rick perry, in a way, cemented that last night by taking away the last other plausible place that tea party supporters could go. if you want not mitt, you are

stuck with herman cain as long as that balloon takes to deflate. he's going to raise a lot of money off of the perception of victimhood which is unfortunate because he is running for the victim in chief spot that was recently vacated by sarah palin. >> oh. david gergen, what's your take on this? and what's your take on rick perry who, okay, he stumbled last night. it with was stomach turning and as i said last night i felt badly for him. it was a human moment but he went and did the morning shows this morning and tried to make a joke out of it, tried to make light. not enough. >> mitt romney is one of the luckiest guys around to run in this field. he has had two guys that sort of almost imploded in front of him. i think david fromme is right that he will stay in and he is a motivational speaker and has support. the poll came out on three battleground states romney runs better than cain in pennsylvania

and in ohio against the president. they are neck and neck against the president but against herman cain obama is ahead by ten points in each state. republicans will pay attention to things like that. >> let's say sum there's a scenario sort of like the way things are now. economy pretty terrible but you get job growth ever noont is tepid. the unemployment rate stays where it is 0 or ticks down a little bit. in that scenario -- it is only in the margin of error in some states above the president and some pe below. >> that's the million dollar question. i think obama can't win and every time i look at the republicans i think he can't lose. no one has ever tried to run for re-election with unemployment since high since fdr and it was 70 years ago a. it is an extraordinary time for this president. as lucky as mitt romney is and i think david gergen is right i think proem is feeling fortunate

to have a comparatively weak field in the republican party. >> what would you do right now if the election was today? what's your bet? >> my bet is that obama would win. i think it is an even field but i think as time goes on the powers of the incouple bancy as paul and david know from their experiences are very, very important in a race like this. beyond that the electoral college works in the president's favor. we'll have to wait and see. does that mean he can lose it? he can absolutely lose it and mitt romney is getting to be a better campaigner as time goes on. he showed humor last night. if he unbends and connects emotionally he's going to be a stronger candidate. >> i don't know if we have video of him but what else mitt romney had is messy hair. it doesn't the perfect ken doll look. he didn't look perfect which i

thought was maybe on purpose. it was a good thing in he looked like a working class hero from a 1930s movie with the dishevelled hair and jaw line. >> the trench coat. >> my guess is that was focus grouped. >> with the spiky hair. it looked like it had hair gel that got it where it was. thanks to all three of you. appreciate you taking the time as always. still "outfront" the latest on the penn state sex scandal. joe paterno is out and the president out as well. we will talk about what it means for the football program, the school and the state and we will talk to a man who played professional hockey and was abused by his coach 300 times help will come "outfront" and talk about why he finally came out and what took him so long. in tonight's "outer circle" a day after the quake in turkey 25 people have been rescued and there's something funny going on at the national toy hall of fame. seriously. ?

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so, we cover a lot of serious stories on this show but this one is more seriously. the national toy hall of fame is located in rochester, new york. every year they take nominations from the public and they induct classic toys from a list of 12 finalists. this year here's what happened. at the ceremony today they inducted three toys in the hall of fame -- hot wheels, totally appropriate, the doll house,

okay. and the blanket. the blanket is an odd choice because it is not a toy, at least i don't know in the traditional sense of the word. we looked at which toys it beat out to be on the list. dungeons and dragons, jen ga, pets and we noticed the blanket was not on the list of finalist it was a total cheater. toy hall of fame you thought you could sneak in a rogue toy to the list maybe it's because it's a blanket but we smell cover-up. this isn't the first time the toy hall of fame has tried this. they actually did the same thing with the cardboard box in '05 and the stick in '08. so look our show is not anti-blanket and certainly not anti-toy. but we're not saying blanket shouldn't be included in the hall of fame. actually, yeah, i am, it shouldn't be. we just think it should be voted fairly. seriously. >> still "outfront, "the "outfront" 5. the next to fall?

>> he walks in to the locker room and sees a man in his 50s raping a little boy and he does nothing about it. turkey's earthquake. >> workers have been working on getting people out of the rubble. a rebel with a cause. >> we've found that's an incredibly powerful way for people to engage each other. >> all this "outfront" in our second half. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security

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we start the second half of our show with stories we care about. we focus on our own reporting, do the work and find the 5. up first, countdown to super committee. earlier tonight, the managing director of miller says he hopes everyone in washington has gotten the message. the super committee's work work is crucial to restoring confidence in the economy. here he is. >> the s&p downgrade of the u.s. credit rating from aaa was a slap in the face and an embarrassment for the country. i hope, from a market perspective and from a d.c. perspective that it did create a sense of urgency that they know that everyone is watching them. time is up and it's time to bring results to satisfy the rating agencies and the bond market and to episatisfy corporate ceos that have been paralyzed by what is going on in washington. >> number two, the federal budget deficit narrowed to $98.5 billion in october. that was better than expected. the government had to pay a few bills in late september because october 1st fell on a saturday but there is important tax

receipts from individuals and companies were higher than expected in the month. and the budget deficit has shrunk a little bit but it is still huge. "outfront" learn leon panetta promised a review of the war debt donelly will also investigate. number four. that's a level we haven't seen since april. we wanted to explain it to you. the four-week moving average, because this number comes out every week, came in at 400,000. anything below 400 means hiring. above means probably not hiring. so we're teetering right on the edge of real job growth. it has been 97 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating.

what are we doing to get it back? we want to welcome two new members of the aa plus clubs. they both lost their aaa ratings today. what is interesting about that, they are tax havens, would be the fair way to describe those places. companies like to stash their cash there. governor tom corbett stepped in front of the penn state sex abuse case tonight and urged the community to have a sense of urgency and patience. they stormed the campus in protest of the firing over the head coach joe paterno. penn state university president was also fired after the two were linked to former assistant coach jerry sandusky. jerry sandusky was charged with sexually abusing eight boys over 15 years, many from his own charity, the second mile. the fallout continues to affect anyone who knew anything about it at anytime. martha coakley knows a lot about child sex abuse. she's prosecuted hundreds of cases including those involving the clergy.

she is "outfront" with us tonight. thank you for joining us. appreciate your taking the time and making the effort to come on. i want to get your overall sense of this. were you shocked when you heard this story? and when you look at a time line, which goes back to at least the early '90s when this started? >> i had a chance to look at some of the grand jury report. having done this work for a long time n some ways, i'm not shocked and yet it is still, when you read it is horrifying to realize even in 2002 that this was going on and it was unreported. >> does this happen a lot? i'm curious. i followed the whole catholic priest sex scandal a lot. i was raised catholic and had a lot of curiosity about that. did you see stimthings happen there where it appeared to be a cover-up that was shocking for a regular citizen to even

comprehend. >> sure. we saw that in boston and massachusetts with decades of priests who were abused, were moved from parish to parish. in some cases there were confidentiality agreements that were signed. when it became apparent in early 2000, 2001, we are still dealing with the effects of that. of course we have an institutional sense that they didn't have to report under the law at the time. they were exempt in massachusetts. they did not report. and as a result of which, kids weren't kept safe. i have done child abuse a long time. the only way we keep safe from a predator like this, and these were young boys, not 15, 16, they were 10, 11 years old. unless it is reported by people who see it we are not going to stop these people. >> what is your belief? given you have investigated these sorts of cases and

prosecuted this of how many more boys there maybe. eight have come forward so far, but when i look at the time line and see this happened since the early '90s, second mile, though, which was started long before that, and he joined, mr. sandusky joined penn state in 1969. i would imagine this isn't something that just starts at some point in your life. >> no. i think we found that is why rehabilitation is difficult for people who have a sexual pred lix for children. we have to assume this is a guy who had authority and access and started his own not for profit, but so he could have availability of a particular vulnerability of a 307lation of kids, maybe from a broken home that looked up to him and someone like that could have hundreds of victims in that period of time. >> hundreds of victims. >> i think that's right. >> does it surprise you, what is your i sense of -- what do you think of joe paterno? he was fired. the president of penn state was fired. joe paterno allegedly, according

to the -- not even allegedly admitted to being told about this in the early '90s -- i'm sorry in 2002. apparently he knew but was unclear but in 2002 he acknowledges being told of graphic sex acts that happened and he did not pursue it in full. what can explain that? >> first of all, look, on one set of facts here, he did report to the athletic director, whether right afully or wrongfully he assumes his job is done. under most state statutes you are required to make sure it is reported and that something happens. we are looking back with hientd sight over a period of time he was not charged by pennsylvania authorities, although others were, who had an obligation to report. whether there was a legal obligation or not, you would hope whenever it came to someone's attention.

again this is in 2000. we know a lot more about predatory behavior and the risk that kids face in circumstances like this. you would have hoped that something would have happened and been reported. it was not. >> when you dealt directly with some of these priests that you dealt with in the doppler ji cases in boston and you dealt with the people who worked around them, people who knew or looked the other way, did anyone explain to you why they looked the other way? why they knew or saw something awful like in this case, someone seeing a 10-year-old boy subjected and sorry to any children watching, anal intercourse by a grown man. how someone would look the other way? >> first of all, i think that people who are not prepared to see things like this, either on a one-time or over a period of time do not see it. they do not focus it in a way. they are in denial. i always say we never want to think the parish priest or the coach or the uncle is someone who's abusing our kids. it's too difficult to deal with. keep in mind, that even in the 1980s and '90s we were still

getting educated about the ways of sexual predators. i think people did not see it. >> thank you very much. we appreciate you taking the time again, martha. >> thank you. so what really happens in these situations? and no one likes to think about it but now the whole country is thinking about it we wanted to talk to sheldon kennedy. he knows the fear and horror that comes with bag victim of sexual abuse. he was sexually molested by his hockey coach starting at 14 years old. he played professionally in the nhl and came forward with his story in 1996. he is "outfront" tonight and dedicated a lot of his life to make sure this doesn't happen to other people were you surprised when you heard this story, not just that it happened but it had been happening for so long with so many people looking the other way? >> i wasn't surprised. i have been working in this field for 14 years and i've seen a lot of institutionalizization

of these issues and that is what happens. i just, i think it is one of those things where it's a platform for change to happen. it's sad that it has to happen this way. i think that this is a -- it is pole vaulted the issue in to society saying, you know what, enough is enough and we need change. >> when you went through this, you went through it for a long time. by your own admission, it was something that scarred you, it affected you, it impacted you, at one point, alcohol and drug abuse. what made you finally decide to come forward, and when you were being abused, why didn't you come forward? >> i think that's the most difficult question out there that is asked around these sexual abuse issues, why i didn't say anything and why didn't he say anything. i think for myself i needed to come out because i saw a ton of trusted adults, people in a leadership position around the

coach that was abusing me and other people not doing anything about it and i needed to file a complaint top the rcmp because i was close to ending my own life. that's where it took me. i think that the fears and the shame and the guilt that come with sexual abuse are huge. i think that we really under estimate the damage that these issues and these victims have when they are abused. we do a lot of work in canada, and we see our prison systems full of child abuse victims and it becomes a huge tax on our society. so, the after-affect is absolutely enormous. >> there were a lot of people in this case that looked the other way, whether it was joe paterno, who as we said back in 2002 was given this incredibly graphic description by a graduate student and there were obviously

others, as well. the janitors, people who worked for the team that saw it and i'm sure many others. does it -- does it surprise you and can you understand why they do not go further? is there any part of you that simple theses with joe paterno or do you think he is paying the price he should pay for his silence? >> well, i think that sometimes i believe that looking at joe paterno's situation at penn state, he was the ultimate person at penn state. if he took that to the authorities, i'm sure the authorities would turn around and ask joe paterno what he needs to do. i think that penn state made a statement that this is something that's not going to be tolerated in our school by firing him and the president. and i believe that, you know, that was the right decision. joe paterno, he needed to do the right thing, and he didn't. sometimes there's a consequence

when that happens. >> how common do you think this is? i don't know if you heard martha coakley who was involved in the prosecution of catholic priest cases in boss tochbl she said she wouldn't be surprised if there were hundreds of boys that were affected. eight have come forward but do you think it is common place in professional sport and high-level college athletics? what is your sense after being a victim and now someone who deals with it from an advocacy position. >> what we see, erin, is no institution is exempt from this happening where there's children involved. it's not just sports. it's everywhere. the fbi studies show that usually the average pedophile affects over 100 kids before they are caught, if they are ever caught and a child has to tell seven adults in their life before anyone takes action. to me, we need to focus on the adults that surround these situations and give them the

tools to know what to do. we can't just trust the organizations we are putting our children in to will do the right thing. >> seven adults before something happens. appreciate you taking the time to talk to us and try to make a difference. >> thank you very much, erin. appreciate it. >> talking about the catcher if they are the washington nationals, wilson ramos. he was kidnapped last night in venezuela. it is a pretty terrifying place down there. we will find out who took him and turkey hit with the second earthquake in a month. rescuers are doing everything they can to find survivors and edward norton comes outfront. pp your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process

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will be giving away passafree copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. we do in the same time every night or about. our outer circle. we reach out to sources around the world and tonight we begin in turkey. emergency crews have saved 25 people trapped in the rubble of the 5.7 magnitude quake that rocked the city of van. how are the rescue efforts going tonight? >> reporter: erin, i just spoke to a search and rescue team leader. he said he and his crew were here ten days ago when the big earthquake hit.

they have left behind a skeleton crew but came back when 25 more buildings collapsed after a earthquake hit here again. you'll see behind me there are several different crews working here tonight. they are working in eight-hour shifts. they say the cold does not bother them, but the expected snowfall could prolong rescue efforts. erin? >> thank you. now to greece where the country has a new interim prime minister. step in the right direction. he is scheduled to be sworn in tomorrow. diana has been covering this in athens. who is lucas papademos? >> reporter: erin, it's a brave man who will take on this job. the country's deep in debt. the economy is shrinking and the people are angry and the only way the country can get the money it needs to stay afloat is

through more savage cuts to jobs, pensions and salaries. if you thought it would take a harvard professor to sort this out, you would be right. luke flew in from the united states on monday and he is now greece's next prime minister. he steered them to toe euro ten years ago and now he has to make sure it stays there. major league baseball is helping authorities find win of its own tonight. s this is a bizarre story but here it is. ray smoes moos is rising star with the nationals. he was kidnapped last night in venezuela. he was in his home country and playing in its winter league. the team spokesman said he was abducted by four men at gun point. joining us is daniel carson, security expert. who could these people be? >> they could be anyone in the kidnap and ransom business. they could be part of a formal organization. they could be a loosely unaffiliated group. they could even be associated with an official agency. they could be police. >> official? >> acts unofficially of course but wenz venezuela is a country

that is very unstable right now and this would not be totally out of possibility. >> i know there have been ransom kidnappings, as you say it is not uncommon in venezuela. what do they want, get ransom and give him back or is this a life-and-death situation. >> if what they want is money, and if it is according to the book, they will arrangement where they will accept the ransom or the ransom will be paid and again if it is according to the book they will release him. >> bags of cash kind of ransom. >> bags of cash kind of ransom. >> what are the chances he will be found and how long do these things usually drag out? >> it is impossible to tell. they can last from a couple of days to as much as a few years depending on the circumstances. kidnapping and ransom is an actual industry with quote unquote rules that are applied to the kidnappings. >> they follow them? there are rules that they play

by. >> they used to until the kidnapping and ransom business kind of came apart when sew medical schoolian pirates begin to kidnap victims but you could reliably accept there was a going rate. you pay the going rite rate. you demand proof of life, a picture or a live conversation and then you make the arrangement and the victim was delivered presumably safe and sound but we don't know yet who these people are or why they kidnapped wilson, whether they did it for political, personal reasons or just for money. >> so, what is the cost usually for securing -- i would imagine he had some security. he is well aware but what does it cost to get security. >> security is not an expensive outlay to obtain bodyguard service for someone who is high net worth it can be anywhere

from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand dollars a day and for someone who is high net worth that is not a lot of money. >> you have to trust your bodyguards. >> you have to do back ground investigation to make sure you are trust your bodyguards. >> thank you very much. appreciate you explaining all of this and we will hope mr. ramos is found safe and sound. "outfront" next, academy award nominated actor the ed norton comes out front. but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that. really? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ deep breath] awesome. [ male announcer ] yes, it is. that's the cold truth! some folks call me a rock star, some call me the mayor... and i love it. and, i make everybody happy. i keep my business insurance with the hartford because... they came through for me once, and i know they've got my back. for whatever challenges come your way... the hartford is here to back you up. helping you move ahead... with confidence. meet some of our small business customers at:

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and now my interview with edward norton.

two-time oscar nominee edward norton helped to raise money for the conservation fund during the new york city marathon. he had a team of runners. he set up a website to make donating causes like this easier. it is called crowdrise and edward norton is joining us now. thank you for coming in and talking about this. >> fun to be here. >> we were talk thing about how in the tough economy you are seeing so many people give a lot of money. tell me about crowdrise and how it is supposed to work. >> i think you are right. i think it is a wonderful truth of american society is that on a person-to-person basis we're an incredibly culture of people. there's a strong culture of giving back and one of the things that's involved in the last couple of decades in the united states has a potent form of fund-raising is peer to peer or crowd source fund-raising where people are using tools on the internet and social networking and things like that

to reach out to each other and say, you know, this is what i am doing. this is what i care about. will you back me? and that, we found that is an incredibly powerful way to engage each other and support causes. >> so people can say i like this cause. more than 500 charities have signed up. 1.6 million have become involved. >> on crowdrise, we have it people using it individually and organizations using it. with crowdrise, we wanted to use, there are places like facebook where you define your life by who your friends are and twitter, this is my life based on what i am doing now. we wanted to create a platform where you can track your long-term life. reach out to friends and family but when it is over instead of it disappearing you get to stay there and see over time. >> so you can see your return on donation, right.

>> and also if you run the marathon this month but then you support your brother's program, program your brother is involved in next month, you can see the cumulative impact of what you have been doing. >> how much of the donation goes to the cause. >> one of the dirty secrets of fund-raising is it costs money to raise money and we all go to rubber chicken galas and say we raised money but it often costs 50% of what you raised to hold the event. some forms of fund-raising are inefficient in terms of the cost, mailings about things like that. one of the great things about web-based crowd sourced friend to friend fund-raising it is a cost efficient way of fund-raising. the charity gets more donations than in other traditional forms of fund-raise sghg in terms of your day job, acting, you can tell us about what you are doing right now. >> i did a film with wes anderson, who is one of my