i tell you what i can spend. i do my best to make it work. i'm back on the road safely. and i saved you money on brakes. that's personal pricing. hello, everyone. thank you for joining us. i'm don lemon. you are in the cnn newsroom. we begin with crime, filth, drugs, even some deaths. many cities are getting fed up with the occupy movement. >> this is the police bureau. under authority of oregon law, southwest main street will be reopen to vehicular traffic. you must immediately proceed to the sidewalk. if you remain in the roadway,

and continue to persist in the roadway you may be subject to use of force including chemical agents and impact weapons. >> chemical agents and impact weapons. we have been watching the pictures all afternoon. and police have been clearing these parts. this is late last night. police in portland, oregon have been warning protesters to leave their encampment. these are live pictures from koin. right now the demonstrators are blocking a street. they seem to be daring police to arrest them. sam adams, the mayor of portland, is live via telephone. as we look at the live pictures, can you tell us why you are taking this action now? >> well, we -- the encamp mentes for occupy portland is just a block away and we had a series of increased drug overdoses, we

had to bring people back to life. we had an arsonist that used a camp camouflaged for his work, 20% increase in crime surrounding the encampment and the organizers of the encampment themselves issued a statement a week or so ago saying they realized that there were some who were taking advantage of their good will. we worked with them, but in the end it just became too great a public safety burden and that's why we moved to clear the camps out, which we have and it was compared to other efforts around the country relatively peaceful. live shots that you aring now are some of the protesters who had sought to protest the last remnant of the camp that we cleared out about an hour ago. >> ma mayor adams, you are

correct. these are live pictures and with you see police in there gear their s.w.a.t. gear. they have been moving people out of the park all day. mayor, it's -- i'm wondering and i think people who are similar pa thet toik the movement are you sympathetic to the complaints by the occupy protesters? >> i'm, you know, i got in to public service for the crimes of economic justice issues on which occupy wall street was founded, and i think that there are plenty of people on wall street that probably like the fact that occupations around the world are getting embroiled in these kinds of local issues, but it is happening. we have worked really hard to keep the peace here in portland. this is our fourth or fooift l fifth police action. there's not been any serious injuries. we have not used tear gas or

rubber bullets and those kinds of things. we work really hard in passionate moments like you are seeing now to make sure the coolest heads prevail and i want to give a shoutout to the portland police bureau for their professionalty and organizers of occupy portland who work hard as well to keep the peace. >> mayor, stand by. we will tell you these are live images coming to us from portland, oregon where the occupy portland folks have been moved out of the park. you are looking at portland police moving those people back there, dropping -- excuse me, they are blocking a street now and police are trying to keep the peace there. let's listen in and we will talk to the mayor more after this. [ chanting ]

>> so mayor, as you are listening, you hear them saying "we are peaceful people." that's what they are saying. i asked this of other mayors in the country, is there a fair way to protect their first amendment rights and ensure public safety? >> absolutely. again, we have had probably 80 arrests here and no serious injuries. we have had some injuries but no serious injuries here in portland. you are not seeing a city in flames here because we work at communication, telling people what we are going to do, why we are going to do it and we work hard, all of us have been working hard at keeping the peace and louing and protecting freedom of expression. that is part of our responsibility, as well. >> i'm sure many cities around the country probably took note of what happened in denver, the violence there.

do you think, mayor, you are taking a hard line -- by you taking a hard line it could backfire and energize the movement? do you worry or think about that? >> you know, i supported what a lot of the movement stands for. the movement is about getting the unique value preposition of the occupy wall street movement is to breed a justice, business leads and other leaders that drove the economy in to the ditch to provide for more equal access to economic opportunities. it shouldn't be so focused on port-a-potties and tents and encampments attracting other criminal elements or people better served in human service environment. so i think this movement needs to evolve. i mean, i humbly submit, it needs to evolve, in order to get

the kinds of reforms we need on a national and international basis. >> it sounds like what you are saying to me is that the tactics are outweighing the good and the message here. the way they are trying to get their message across is actually harming what they could be accomplishing here. >> i think the occupation is an important starting point. in many ways they can declare havic tri. when you have treasury geithner talking about the fact, don't forget we are not bringing to justice some of the folks that, again, messed up the global economy. we're not done with that. i think it is a direct result of highlighting the issues and advocacy of the occupy wall street movement but we need to get results on those issues and the founding concerns of the occupy wall street movement. there's work to be done in each

city, but, you know, the city as liberal as porl that supports a lot of reforms whose mayor and city council supports that agenda, we're not enemies. >> i get what you are saying. >> the occupations may sense a launch but i think it has to evolve. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. don't go far from the phone. we may be getting back to you. we have been seeing imanls all day from the occupy portland, oregon. the protesters have been moved out of the park. they are blocking a street now. one of the protesters for occupy portland is joining us by phone. i'm not sure if you were able to hear the mayor but he said for public safety reasons, he had to move you guys out of the park, and he thinks that occupy movement, the occupy movement needs to involve beyond just occupation.

>> i was able to hear the mayor's words there and -- i appreciate what the mayor is saying but unfortunately it's not the mayor's call as to what occupy movement looks like. that's the call of the people directly involved with occupy portland. and i think we have been evolving over the last five weeks. we have been tholding down this camp and last night we saw that despite all of the things the mayor tension mentioned, 7,000 people flooded in to downtown portland to support occupy portland and the values that we stand for. the values of addressing inequality and often ouer is so egregious. we feel strong the community supports us. i'm sorry. i should say i can't speak on behalf of occupy portland. i can only speak on behalf of myself. but i feel extremely disappointed that the mayor

chose to crack down on these parks when an outpouring of support was so strong and clearly in favor of occupy portland. i feel as though he caved in his interest. >> carrie. >> can i jump in and ask you a question. if you listen to the mayor, the mayor offered you good advice. he said he's on your side. you have someone in the city council that's on your side. someone who's willing to work with you in one of the most liberal cities in the country, very liberal place and he is telling you he wants to work with you but your movement needs to evolve. that sounds like good advice from someone who appears to have your interest at heart. why won't you take his advice and work with him? >> we have agreed to work with the city on many levels and we have a variety of demands and we have evolved as a pluchlt.

-- movement. i think the mayor is calling out homelessness and drug abuse for the recallty of the park but in recallty they exist deep in our society and the park has the occupation and camp has shown a light on these issues and the mayor then shows this camp aside to sweep the issues aside. we were feeding 1500 people a day at the camp can. we had hundreds housing and sleeping this each night. we were making an impact on the city. >> only for time purposes, i'm not cutting you off. there's other news. what i understand, the situation, what the mayor is saying and in many cities are saying, i'm not on anyone's side but what i am saying, sometimes the problems the mayor is talking about homeless, drug

use, crime and rape. sometimes when you have a number of people in places like that it can exacerbate the situation and increase those thing and it db a hot bed for those things. the public safety is here and it is at the center of this as well. it appears to people who are not watching that you can get together and the movement can evolve in some way. you can not occupy a park and allow 0 a crime to go on. that just doesn't happen. >> i would respond by saying crime in our city and the occupation is no more of a hot bed for crime than anywhere else in portland. drug addicts, mentally ill folks exist and we are looking to deal with what we have. it is true we were a safe place to go and that created problems and we were working to deal with those problems and the mayor cut

i us off from dealing with those problems. we will continue to shut down the campus, obviously, continue to evolve and grow and we are planning -- >> i have to run here, but we want you to stick around and get back in touch with you us if this keeps going on. we appreciate you joining us. i hear a your and the mayor's side, as well. it could be great if you could work together instead of talking over each other. >> we will follow this developing story out of portland, oregon. police against the occupy portland folks, a standoff on the street live pictures. we will monitor. we are following a developing story this hour in afghanistan, the taliban with a claim today that should strike fear around the world. right back in a moment. nationwide insurance, talk to me.

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pennsylvania's governor says a penn state child sex abuse scandal should permanently change the way cases are handled across the state. there's a reason ousted coach joe paterno isn't facing criminal charges right now. in 2002, he told school administrators about a report that former defensive coach jerry sandusky was seen raping a boy in a locker room shower. that's all he was required to do under pennsylvania law. tell the people in charge and let them decide whether to contact police. governor tom corbett said that isn't good enough. he said by law, someone in paterno's position should have to call the cops himself. >> should the law be changed? absolutely. i know members of republican and democrat parties have introduced measures to make that change. with have to make sure it is

effective, it is easy enough to look and see what other states have done. but i'm sure that within the next few weeks you are going to go probably see those become public. i wouldn't be surprised if a bill wasn't passed twoon now and the end of the year. >> corbett is on the penn state board of trustees that fired joe paterno this week. he began an investigation in jerry sandusky when he was the attorney general. jerry sandusky is accused of sexually abusing eight boys over a 15-year period. he has been staying out of the public eye but an abc news caught up with him after the news broke. >> i'm sorry, but my attorney has advised me that this situation is in the courts and i'm not to make any comments. >> can you tell us if you had any inappropriate relationships with young boys. >> you didn't hear what i said. i have been advised by my attorney. i'm following orders and i'm not privy to making any statement.

>> on saturday, penn state played the first game since the allegation broke and the first game in 46 years pout joe paterno as head coach. will the ncaa penalize a program over this scandal, perhaps for tn seasons to come? we will ask jon wertheim later in the show. afghanistan is a days away from a meeting that could decide the country's future. the taliban claim to know how they will be kept safe during the meeting. nick peyton walsh has more on leaked on-line security documents and why afghan officials say they are not worried. >> reporter: taliban say they have obtained confidential security information about a forthcoming meeting of tribal elders to be held here. they pit out on the internet an claim it is a leak from inside the afghan government.

the afghan interior orr said the documents are fake and an example of taliban propaganda. the taliban pledged to do whatever they can to disrupt this meeting. community leaders across afghanistan coming together to discuss what kind of permanent presence the u.s. military could have inside of afghanistan and whether a peace deal with the insurgency, elements is possible. it isn't clear if the documents are the real deal or not. whatever the says case they point to the information war between the insurgency and coalition forces here. they say it is because the taliban can't win on the battlefield but the taliban and some afghans point out it is perhaps a sign of more sophisticated tactics and if the documents are real, che which it is not clear if they are.

. nick peyton walsh, cnn, kabul. >> thank you very much. republican candidate for president is claiming media bias. it is not herman cain again. next the e-mail that is michele bachmann saying cbs is not being fair to her. alka-seltzer plus liquid gels fights your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your stuffy nose. [ deep breath ] thank you! that's the cold truth! good gravy, bill. our insurance company doesn't have anything like it. magnificent, isn't it? with progressive, it's easy to cover all of your favorite rides. progressive has truck insurance? number one in truck and motorcycle. is that a golf cart?

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i'm sure it has happened to

you. i'm sure it has happened to everybody. everyone has accidentally sent an e-mail they regret. but no apologies from cbs over a misfire with congresswoman michele bachmann. her campaign was on an e-mail chain saying she wouldn't get as much time as others in a debate. they are defending the e-mail saying it was a change about the reality of circumstances. bachmann is at 4% in the polls. i want to bring in lz granderson, and republican analyst and web contributor for the chicago defender. thank you for joining us. i also want to say i did speak with alice from the bachmann campaign and they said they had worked something out with cbs. and they just felt that michele bachmann was slighted during the debate. she said they shouldn't decide how much air time that get.

when there's 75% of the electorate undecided. that's according to her. linney, does bachmann have a right to be mad over this e-mail? >> she has a right to be mail over the e-mail but if she's going to be angry at anybody. she should be angry at herself. she won the iowa straw poll and was ahead of the pact. what did she do to fumble the bachl a little bit sounds le sour grapes. she is giving strong answers but not like a ron paul or rick santorum that had a chance to break in the front. she's slipped back to fifth if not sixth place in some instances. if she is angry at anyone can look at cbs but her campaign as well. she has had enough flubs there. >> lenny, are you conservative. >> oh, yeah. >> just checking because it

didn't sound like it there. >> truthful and conservative. that's the key. truthful and conservative. i'm more american than conservative. that's the bottom line. that is what we all need to be more american than any partisan politics. >> lz always keeps it real. that's why we have him on all the time. bachmann's camp is complaining about the time but what about ron paul. he woke 89 seconds in last night's deso he polls well. he usually wins middle east of the straw polls or is high on the straw polls. what gives here. only spoke 89 seconds. he's not complaining. >> i'm not sure why he hasn't had an opportunity speak during these debates more than he has. you are right, she's shown to be really in touch with the voters they like some of his view and it shows when the straw polls are held. i think if bachmann wanted her concerns to be taken seriously,

what her campaign should have done, instead of complaining about herself, say, hey, look the electorates undecided we should all get the same number of questions. the real sin to me is jon huntsman, the only candidate up there with only any solid foreign pollecy back ground was the last person to be asked a question. so there were a lot of things from last night. >> lz, you and i have been talking about, i saw you at a speaking engagement about jon huntsman. you have been talking about hirm carrying the torch for a while now and people are starting to say what you have been saying a lock time. you saw rick perry's disastrous performance the debate before last night. let's listen to last night. >> governor, perry, you advocate the elimination of the department of energy. if you eliminate the department of energy. >> glad you remembered it.

i have had some time to think about it, sir. >> me, too. >> as i am asking this question let me show the video from snl. they had fun on perry's behalf. did he do anything last night to help himself? >> absolutely. you know what, we have all had moments in which we freeze, right. i think the average person recognizes that and that is what happened with him. it was smart of him to make fun of itself and diffuse it a bit. an angry approach would have made it easier to make him a punching bag because he humanized the moment he connected with people. >> do you think he helped himself last night? >> he absolutely did. his supporters have to be going nuts. they have to say to himself where was this guy at the last several debates.

he started to look presidential and he was clear with a sense of humor but clear with his positions and that's what they have been waiting for. we will see if he can continue that momentum past last night. >> i had one of those moments all the time but for 53 seconds. >> thank you. >> good to see you. let's talk about the penn state sex abuse scandal. the criminal case and the future of the victims most important by far. next, we will talk about the future of the universe and football program. could penalties from the ncaa yield a death blow to the program? and what about the legacy of joe paterno? we are talking with jon wertheim from "sports illustrated" coming up next. has never attacked a corkboard. ♪ give your customers the added feeling of security a printed statement or receipt provides... ...with mail. it's good for your business.

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aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. plug into the savings you deserve with snapshot from progressive. without pulling focus away from the victims in the penn state case, it is no surprise that the football program is forever changed. the lions may never recover their stature in the ncaa. i want to bring in jon wertheim who is a reporter for "sports illustrated." we have seen the ncaa come down hard on things like recuting

canal scandals. this is way beyond anything like. that usc is facing sanctions from reggie bush's time when he was there. what koud could the ncaa do to penn state here? the ncaa comes down hard when ncaa ruling are violated, there's no precedent here when there is an alleged cover-up of alleged felony sex crimes. in some ways this is more severe than what gets schools in trouble. this is already being discussed at penn state. i heard this over the weekend. the one point against it would punish student and players, deprive them of scholarships who had nothing to do with this whatsoever. is that fair to them. >> hold on. in usc, did the team have anything to do with what happened? >> reggie bush was a player.

ushs sc did not get the death penalty. bush was a player and this is a code of coaches that are alleged to cover up a sex crime. that is different than improper benefits to a player or lack of oversight. >> all i'm saying the other members of the team had nothing to do with reggie bushes or the coach's actions or people getting over things. to me it seems similar. it is not apples and oranges and not everyone will be involved in every scandal. >> yeah. i would say at least reggie bush this was a scandal in the context of the football program. this is sex crimes and in some ways are intricately tied to the program. but nothing to do with the team and the ncaa rule book. >> john, i have to -- hang on. you and i don't usually disagree but i have to disagree it is people who are involved in a football program, heads of football programs who are not

following the rules. this is not following the rules. i don't see where football has the anything to do with it. they are both coaches and i don't think that one is outside of the other. it seems they are both grejously break the rules. >> there's no precedent for the ncaa to come in a case like this. this is not about ncaa rules. obviously what is going on at penn state is more serious than reggie bush but it is in the ncaa's jurisdiction to have much of a say here. i'm not saying it won't happen but this is not the typical case where the ncaa would insert itself. >> they have enough wins to be bowl eligible, but it is possible they mate say they don't want them? >> that's interesting. that's an interesting take. there was talk last week that penn state would decline a bull

bid but that would be interesting. penn state brings a lot of money and they have a huge fan base. this is a popular team and they have a couple of defeats. if you are a lesser bowl this will bring in a lot of fans. on the other hand it would be a strong statement f. the bowls said after what is going on we don't want anything to do with the program this year. but the rumor that penn state would decline a bowl bid, that is not probably the case. if asked they will probably go. >> what will joe paterno be remembered as? >> i don't know how you divorce the two. part of what makes it interesting, this is a fluid case. we are waiting on information. right now, i don't see how you divorce the two as fine as a career as he had to go out the way he did. understand precedented, charges.

>> jon wertheim. john and i are not mad. just a lively conversation. jon wertheim of "sports illustrated." >> all good. >> thank you, sir. colorado is used to winter snowstorms, but not like this one and not in mid november. it's a dangerous situation right now and it's only getting worse. jacqui jeras on how bad it is going to get is up next. can i help you? yeah, can i get a full-sized car? for full-sized cars, please listen to the following menu. for convertibles, press star one. i didn't catch that. to speak to a representative, please say representative now. representative. goodbye! you don't like automated customer service, and neither do we. that's why, unlike other cards, no matter when you call chase sapphire preferred,

you immediately get a person not a prompt. chase sapphire preferred. a card of a different color. (phone ringing) chase sapphire preferred, this is julie in springfield.

a fierce winter storm is hammering the central rockies right now. heavy snowfall and powerful wind gusts are creating dangerous blizzard conditions in colorado. some people may be liking it, but it is causing a lot of chaos on the roads. jacqui jeras is monitoring the extreme storm. you saw the people out this, hikers, snow boarders. they may like it but it is causing problems. >> this is bad even for them. when you talk about wind gusts that are hurricane force it is dangerous for a lot of people. there have been a lot of car accidents and a lot of people lost power today. look at the conditions of the

roads. this is west of denver along i-70. this doesn't look too bad but loveland pass had to close because of the extreme weather. the wind has been the big issue with the storm. we have seen impressive snowfall totals. we have had wind gusts as much as 115 miles an hour. that was near fresco an there you see the snowfall totals. these are preliminary. they will go up but when it is said and done we are talking two feet overall. it is fast-moving storm. the reason it is such a wind maker is because we have great differences between pressure. a strong low here, a strong high here and another strong high to the east and it is really driving in the winds. denver itself hasn't seen a flake of snow. you are too warm and that has to do with the track of the storm and the winds slope down the mountains and it dries out and you got nothing. we will have to watch for tomorrow because it turns to a rain maker for the gulf coast.

thank you, jackqui. next, they are using tanks, troops and much more against the bad guys and it is happening inside of one of the world's largest cities.

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well, brazil is taking the concept of cleaning up the neighborhood to a new level. i want you to look at this show of force that enter ed one of the most notorious slums in rio de janeiro today. the military offensive included tanks and not hundreds, but thousands of security forces. the story tops the world's headlines as we go "globe trekking." why brazil? why are they doing this? anything to do with the fact the nation is hosting the 2016 olympics? >> i think it has a lot to do with that. this problem has been going on for decades, right? they want to clean up the city's image and in this shantytown, a fifth of the city's residents live in the shanty touns and they want to get rid of the problem. it was a predawn raid that

lasted three hours, navy commanders, helicopters. t it was really dramatic and in the end the police prevailed. the real question is, don, it is one thing to clean it up but is it window dressing? once the world cup and olympics is over will it sustain? >> look at the video. can we take it full? that is amazing. >> they went bang busters on to the city. >> i want to talk about switzerland and a case of islamphobia. someone dumped pig parts at the site of a proposed mosque. >> they are saying it could have a safe haven for money but is it safe for your believes. they found pig carcasses, pig's blood and maybe it is an effort to diska said the people that want to build the mosque because pig in islam is forbidden and

they hope it will probably prevent it from going forward. another case of islamphobia. it seems appropriate of come from our gloek globe trekking segment to hear this. ♪ it's the end of the world as we know it ♪ . >> r.e.m. is breaking up. why? we will let them explain in two minutes.

we're in the countdown to a music milestone. in two days, r.e.m. releases its last album ever. it's got a long name to reflect on the 31 years that r.e.m. has thrived in the industry, notorious for one-hit wonders. shannon cook interviewed the band on why it is over for r.e.m., but first she answers the question the cynics are asking, could this all be a publicity stunt? >> a publicity stunt for r.e.m. seems unlike r.e.m. but only time will tell. here's part one of my interview with michael stipe and mike

mills. ♪ your day is long and night is yours alone ♪ >> this isn't really a >> this isn't really a dramatic breakup, is it? it's really just the end of the road for r.e.m.. >> it's the end of the r.e.m. -- >> as we know it. sorry! >> as a touring and recording entity. you know, r.e.m. will continue to exist in our catalog and our music, but as far as creating more stuff, no, that's the end. >> between the three of us, we kind of arrived at it at the same time. now you can go into the blog sphere and everyone has their opinion of when r.e.m. should have or might should have broken up. but we don't even call it breaking up. we disbanded. there's no animosity, no weirdness, no lawyers squaring off between us. we love each other and have huge respect for each other. we just reached a point where it

didn't feel like it made sense to carry on any further. and we happened to do that at a very high point in a 31-year career of highs and lows. ♪ everybody hurts some times ♪ so hold on >> why quit? why not just take a break and then just tour when you feel like it? >> because if you do that, then you've got constant questions about, well, when's your next record? when's your next tour? when are you going to do this? and in a way, that would inhibit whatever we plan to do going forward. >> i think it would turn everything else in our life into a sideshow. people would say, when are you going to do the next r.e.m. record or tour? and i think for ourselves, we needed and wanted that closure and that clarity. >> so how do you feel about this? do you feel sad? are you relieved?

>> there's -- certainly, there's sadness. you know, it's bittersweet, by all means -- >> if the feelings go from here to here, we're feeling every one of them. >> but you know, not relief, though. because relief implies, like, we're escaping something. and it certainly isn't that. you know, there is the word that popped into my head, there is an odd feeling of liberation. ♪ that's me in the corner ♪ that's me in the spotlight, losing my religion ♪ >> it's a liberation, it's a clean break, and a chance to move forward. >> so what do you do now? >> i took a deep breath the day of the announcement of our disbanding and i just thought, now what? what do i do now? and i couldn't answer it for myself. so i decided to be very honest with everyone i spoke to about it and say, i have no idea. i really don't know. but i'm going to take a sabbatical for a couple months or longer. and whatever i do, you'll know about it, i hope.

>> so a massive comeback tour, never say never? >> never say never, of course, but we're not going to do it. >> that's kind of a never. >> if we ever did, we would tell you exactly why, and it would be because one of us, for some reason or another, really needed money, but i don't see that happening at all. i mean, it is funny, but we're being really honest by saying, it's over. we love each other, we love what we did. it's done. ♪ i thought that i heard you laughing ♪ ♪ i thought that i heard you sing ♪ >> oh, but wait, shannon's got much more with r.e.m. join us next hour and find out which of their songs mean the most of musicians. that's right here on cnn. and next, we're taking you inside one of the biggest buildings for the first time in decades. you may not grasp just how big nasa's vehicle assembly building is until you hear and see this story. but first, cnn's dr. sanjay gupta launched a new program

today called "the next list." each week, it will profile innovators from all walks of life. this week he introduces us to marco tempist, a cyberillusionist who combines technology with magic for a cutting edge performance. >> reporter: for tempist, adding pop culture to his tricks in the mid-'80s meant emulating what he loved most of all, special effects, like those he was seeing in the movies. >> people would go to the movies to see special effects. so if i could bring the special effects of the movies to the stage, then in my mind, sure enough, i would have a recipe to dna, to do magic, which is contemporary and which would attract larger audiences. [ male announcer ] one-hundred-nineteen data points.

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a vehicle assembly building at nasa's kennedy space center is one of the largest structures in the world. now that the shuttle program has retired, the complex has re-opened to the public for the first time in more than 30 years. cnn's john zarrella was there. >> reporter: these folks are

some of the first inside. for more than 30 years, it had been closed to visitors. >> took lots of pictures. >> i did. and some of them only i'll understand. because how do you take a picture of this? how do you take a picture of the ceiling? unbelievable. >> reporter: if you think that's unbelievable -- >> shuttle orbiter, "endeavour." >> reporter: for current and future space geeks, this is heaven. a pinch-me moment. "endeavour" is being held here until its california museum home is ready. you know what you're looking at back there? >> yeah. >> what is it? >> a space rocket. >> this is rich in history and now reopen for public tours. from here, the massive saturn 5 moon rockets were assembled beforerolling out to the launch pad. >> it was so busy in here. we had thousands of people in this build at a time. there were probably 6,000 people in this building.

>> reporter: conrad nagel worked on both the apollo and space shuttle programs. >> we're probably not going to see anything like this in our lifetime. >> reporter: all 135 shuttles started out from this building too. made into the fuel tanks and booster rockets. because of the volatile fuels and chemicals used during the shuttle era, nasa cloeed the doors to outsiders in 1978. with the shuttle program over, nasa is again allowing tours from the visitor complex to stop here. >> we just sort of said, well, we absolutely have to do that part of the tour. that's just not optional. >> reporter: to this day, the vab remains one of the biggest buildings in the world. 525 feet high. by volume, it's the fourth largest in the world. so here's one of those interesting nasa factoids. that's the vehicle assembly building behind me. and that american flag you see there, it is so large that you can