you do. >> nobody? >> reporter: nope. nobody. jeanne moos, cnn. ♪ >> reporter: new york. leave it to jeannie. that's it for me. thanks very much tore watching. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." the news continues next on cnn. good evening, everyone, tonight new developments and new questions in the still-spreading scandal over the alleged sexual abuse of young children by a former penn state university assistant football coach. tonight, a second charity that helps adolescent boys is checking to see whether any of them had contact with the former penn state defensive coach, jerry sandusky, now accused of ra raping eight boys. the fresh air funds shows records show he did serve as a host for inner city children. and the housecleaning continues at the charity he founded. the board of directors for second mile announced an internal investigation today and its ceo for the past 28 years

has quit. plus tonight, new questions about the judge who over the objections of prosecutors, okayed sandusky's release on bail. get this. her biography lists her as a volunteer at sandusky's second mile charity. joe paterno's name is being taken off the championship trophy. he was fired last week after he was told about one of the rapes in 2002 but apparently never told police, although he did tell university higher-ups. now pennsylvania's legislature is expected to change state laws requiring employees of universities to report the sexual assault of a child. state senator kim ward is co sponsoring such a bill. she is with us tonight. also with us is ernie allen, president and ceo of the national center for missing and exploited children. and in new york helping us with the legal issues, sunny hostin, a legal contributor to trutv. this is what you sent around to your colleagues saying help me

co sponsor my legislation. you explain what it does. if your bill were the law of the land, two years ago, five years ago in pennsylvania, what would it have done to prevent what happened at penn state? >> well, the bill that i am proposing would make mandated reporters out of every employee of an education -- higher institution of education. of that's not the case right now. so therefore, anyone who witnessed what they witnessed -- allegedly witnessed, and i believe them, this would have had a law that would have mandated them to report not only to their immediate superiors, which is the present law, this legislation would have mandated them to report to the leader of the institution and the department of public welfare's child line. and that would have made it much harder for them to keep this on the inside, if anyone or anyone there suspected that something was going on.

this law would have made it much harder, because they would have had to report it to a public entity. >> sunny hostin, weigh in here. obviously, as specific a change as we can get from this, we should get. as specific a requirement to learn the lesson of this, we should. but it seems nuts, forgive me, in the case of the one assistant coach or graduate assistant at the time who allegedly was an eyewitness to the rape of a child under current pennsylvania state law he's required to do nothing? >> it's extraordinary, isn't it? i mean, he is -- he was supposed to be required to report it to his immediate supervisor, and that is what he did. and that is why there was no criminal exposure for him. but the law clearly needs to be expanded, it needs to be strengthened, it needs to be tightened up and i think that's what the senator is trying to do. this is the law in the land for mandatory reporters everywhere. we're talking about nurses, doctors, educators, k-12, need to report it to law enforcement,

or to a hot line. that needs to be the case across all educational authorities. >> ernie allen weigh in. the senator's bill requires if a state university employee sees this, they have to report it to their supervisor, and also to the department of public welfare. is that good enough, or should they be required -- would you prefer they be required to pick up the phone and dial 911 or call the police, not somebody who might be in an institution that's looking to protect itself? >> well, john, child protective services has specialized skills. they should evaluate these. but our preference is they report them to police. these are crimes. and in order to protect the child, we need to prosecute the person responsible. >> so senator, why not add the police? >> well, it is something i believe that governor corbett is talking about, and something we'll be talking and discussing in more depth. but today, for example, in our

meetings, some senators were saying, well, if we contact the police, then you're going to have a lot of people calling for every little thing. we would like to train folks to know what child abuse is. you know, we've had a couple of hearings. the committee i chair, aging and youth in the senate has had a couple hearings on child abuse, and some of the things that are in the present law are just shocking. and it's something that we need to change. and one of the things that was just so, so interesting and just really kind of disgusting is that presently in our present law, if someone is accused of -- if a child comes into an emergency room and they have obviously been abused, a doctor saying they're abused, if they don't have a perpetrator, and a name to hook on to that, that is never recorded as child abuse. so we have been working on child abuse through the summer. we've had hearings, we've passed some bills. and we'll -- i'm sure we'll talk more in depth about the police issue. >> well, you certainly have more

urgency now. and ernie, i want you to come in on that point. the senator just noted, in her view, if the child doesn't tell the doctor, this is the person who attacked me, it doesn't get recorded. how does pennsylvania stack up to the country? i want our viewers to look at these statistics. 8.3 cases per 1,000 children, child abuse investigations in pennsylvania. nationally, 40.3 cases per 1,000 children. 15% of the investigations in pennsylvania lead to reports labelling an incident as child abuse. nationally, 35%. so is pennsylvania doing something wrong? >> well, pennsylvania has outstanding law enforcement. we work with pennsylvania law enforcement every day. but you can't investigate, you can't prosecute these cases if you don't learn about them. i think strengthening pennsylvania's mandatory reporting law is really important, and it's important for every pennsylvania citizen to view themselves as a reporter. >> and sunny, is there also -- i don't know what the right word for it is here, but there is a culture here about this legendary program. it's a legendary iconic

institution on campus, and now we hear the judge, who let jerry sandusky out on bail, does not disclose to anybody in advance she was involved with his charity. prosecutors object, and the judge still doesn't say, well, i might have a potential conflict here. it leads me to think that there's some culture here that we need more than new laws. we need to crack the culture. >> oh, there's no question about it. it's extraordinary. and i have the bond document here. it is extraordinary, john, that jerry sandusky was allowed bail in the first place, without any conditions. i mean, i was a child sex crimes prosecutor, and each and every time, you have these types of allegations, you ask the bail be set, if at all, very, very high. but you also ask for monday attorney general equipment. you ask for passports. you ask they not be allowed -- the alleged perpetrator, not be allowed to be within any distance of a school. my understanding is he lives right next to an elementary school. so it is just really extraordinary to me that this was the type of bail that was

set. it's also extraordinary to me she did not divulging, that she had some sort of connection. we don't know what the connection is, right? she is listed as a volunteer for the second mile. we don't know if it was a one-time volunteer thing. we don't know the nature of the relationship. but because of that, she was supposed to divulge, at least to the government, and certainly to the defense team, there could be this apparent conflict of interest, this appearance of impropriety. and i've just never seen in all my years of prosecuting these kinds of cases, this type of bail package for someone accuse of these crimes. >> and so ernie, the coach was set free. he, like anyone else in america, deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty. but to the point sunny just mentioned, his house is close to an elementary school. he has been released on bail. what, in your view, could and should be done just in case to protect those children? >> well, certainly schools should be alert. parents should be aware of that proximity. one of the things that hopefully everyone will glean from this is the offenders who prey upon

children don't match society's stereotype. they seek legitimate access to the child. we should never be surprised when an offender is a volunteer at a youth organization or a coach or a babysitter or a teacher. they -- they're in every walk of life. so parents should be alert and aware, not just to sandusky, but to all of those people who are preying on -- paying unusual attention or interest in their child. >> and senator, there's no question this has shocked and saddened and stunned your state. i want you to listen, you mentioned the governor earlier, other proposals, as well. i want you to listen to governor corbett this morning saying he believes there will be new laws, other actions taken, and he believes they'll be taken pretty quickly. >> we have to make sure that the change in the law is one that is effective, it's easy enough to take a look to see what other states have done. but i'm sure that within the next few weeks, you will probably see bills become public. i wouldn't be surprised to see if a bill was passed within -- between now and the end of this

year. >> now and the end of the year. that's the governor on "meet the press" yesterday. now and the end of the year. give us a sense, senator, just in terms of if i were having a conversation with you six or eight weeks ago and i mentioned joe paterno and penn state, there is a very different tone to the conversation and the urgency in your state today. give a sense where you talk to your colleagues about what needs to be done to turn the page here, and to hopefully, hopefully have a -- teachable moment sounds weak. something that comes out of this where we could say the state and the country learn an important lesson. >> well, i think that some of the bills -- for example, the two i have here, and actually senator fontana has a bill. he's on the democratic side. this is a nonpartisan issue. i think that theirs are going to be done very, very quickly. i've had had great support today. i think half the senators have now signed on to these bills to be co sponsors, and great, great support from the leaders in the senate, senator scarnati and they have said today hopefully we can get something done by the time we're fined in december.

>> senator ward, sunny hostin, thanks for coming in today. it's a horrible conversation, but something we have to have to watch out how the case is handled against coach sandusky and what changes are made in the state law in pennsylvania. this important programming note. anderson cooper 360 has jerry sandusky's attorney tonight at 8:00 eastern. up next, senator john mccain, the republican nominee for president last time. today he tweeted he's very addition disappointed in something several of the candidates who want to be the nominee next time talked about in the last debate. [ male announcer ] drinking a smoothie with no vegetable nutrition?

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important developments today in what may be a crucial week in the uprising against the syrian leader al assad. syria suspended because of attacks on civilians and its refusal to talk with opposition groups. but no let-up in the killing, as you can see. reports say at least 13 civilians died today, adding to the year's death toll of some 3,500.

jordan's king abdullah became the first arab leader to call on assad to step down. >> if i were in his shoes, i would step down. however, it's not if i was in his position i would -- if it was me, i would step down and make sure whoever comes behind me has the ability to change the status quo that we're seeing. and again, i don't think the system allows for that. >> the united states made a similar call for assad to step down back in august, but is there more washington could do now? joining me is senator john mccain, the top republican on the armed services committee. senator mccain, let's start with syria. more killing, more bloodshed, some tougher action from the arab league. what should the obama administration, what should the united states congress be doing right now? >> tougher sanctions to start with, john. including getting our -- the russians and the chinese to stop blocking larger sanctions through the united nations. also, encourage turkey to continue to play a leadership

role. the turks have gone from apologists for syria to very strong measures being taken by the prime minister. and we ought to be helping out in as moral a way as we possibly can, providing encouragement, providing condemnation for what assad is doing. and stating unequivocally that the killing cannot go on forever. otherwise, more stringent measures are taken. but the arab league measures that were taken, i think, are very important, and we could see the same kind of thing that happened in libya, although the situation is vastly different. >> you mentioned the chinese and the russians. they don't want tougher sanctions on syria, senator. they also don't want tougher sanctions on iran. does there have to be another way that does not involve the united nations security council where those two nations consistently say no? >> first of all, the russians are going in wto, the chinese are trying to act like a

grown-up super power. there's a lot of pressure points we could put on the russians and the chinese that, you know, would point out to the world that they're out of step. they're -- they are supporting the iranians, the syrians, and certainly not acting in a mature fashion. and so i think we could put a lot of pressure on them. >> a lot of foreign policy conversations in the presidential campaign of late. let's turn to that. there was a big republican debate this past weekend. i know you were watching it. if it we went back to the last campaign, john mccain and barack obama disagreed on most things, but they did agree that it was time to start working toward closing kwan tan mow bay. they did agree that certain enhanced interrogation tactics like waterboarding equal torture and should be outlawed. listen to some of your party's candidates for president saturday night. >> using those techniques we know will extract the information to save young american lives and i will be for it until i die. >> i don't see it as torture. i see it as an enhanced

interrogation technique. >> if i were president, i would be willing to use waterboarding. i think it was very effective and gained information for our country. >> bachmann, cain, perry, the romney campaign said after the debate he does not consider waterboarding to be torture. what did you make of that, senator? >> disappointed. ask any military lawyer, ask any person who knows about the geneva conventions that we're signatories to. we actually prosecuted japanese war criminals specifically for the act of waterboarding against americans. and just two additional points, john. one, it doesn't work. if you put enough physical pain on somebody, they will tell you whatever they think that you want to hear in order to -- for the pain to stop. and second of all, what about our moral standing in the world? abu ghraib was a terribly damaging situation, and one that we still have not recovered from. i still want to close guantanamo

bay. but the obama administration has mishandled it so badly that it can't be closed now. but the point is that waterboarding is an afront to all of the standards that we believe in, and adhere to of humane treatment of people who are human beings. and, of course, i am disappointed at the statements that were made. and, again, it doesn't work. >> you say it doesn't work, sir. do they just not get it? and do you need to have a conversation with the person who would like to be the next republican presidential nominee, or maybe you don't like this, is your party more to your right? does your party agree with them and not you? >> well, judging from the applause that you -- the clip that you just played, obviously a lot of people agree with them. again, it's a matter of the president telling the american people about the geneva conventions. and why we didn't torture prisoners in world war ii. that was because they had

americans as prisoners. and why we prosecuted people for the very same act of waterboarding after world war ii was over. ask any military lawyer, and they will tell you that it is illegal. i hope they will look into the issue. >> you just mentioned, the president has had a hard time keeping his promise to close guantanamo bay and i don't want to revisit that, but i'm fond of often saying running for president is very different than being president. i want you to listen to governor romney here talking about iran at the debate saturday night. >> if we re-elect barack obama, iran will have a nuclear weapon. and if we elect mitt romney, they will not have a nuclear weapon. >> sounds great, senator. but easier said than done? >> well, i think it's easier said than done. but i think that governor romney is on the right track here. we have to make it clear to the iranians that they cannot and will not have a nuclear weapon. and one of the greatest con nun

conundrums we face today is whether israel will take action. they have acted in the case of a syria reactor, iraqi reactor, and i think that this is a situation that cries out for american leadership, and we should lay down a marker on the iranians. but, again, the russians and the chinese, because we can squeeze them harder with sanctions on their banking system and their oil exports, as well. >> you were through a lot of debates in 2000 and 2008. we're watching a lot of them in this republican season. two debate's ago, governor perry in his words stepped in it. that came up a little bit saturday night. let's listen here. >> governor perry, you advocated eliminating the department of energy. if you eliminate the department of energy -- >> glad you remembered it. [ laughter ] >> i've had some time to think about it, sir. [ laughter ] >> me too. [ laughter ]

[ cheers and applause ] >> last time you were with us, senator, was after a rough debate for governor perry. you suggested he get a little bit more sleep. i just wanted to close on that light note to see if you have anymore advice for him. >> i don't, except i think he did the right thing by injecting humor. americans love humor. that's why will rogers and mark twain are still two of our favorite americans. >> senator john mccain, appreciate a little humor at the end of the conversation and an important conversation about syria and other world challenges. thank you for coming in tonight. appreciate it. >> thank you. for the first time, herman cain's wife speaks out about allegations he sexually harassed women, and perhaps not a moment too soon. that's next. congratulations. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them.

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for more political analysis, go to cnnpolitics.com. gloria cain says she just can't believe it. can't imagine her husband of 43 years sexually harassing anyone or groping shaing sharon bialka said a week ago. >> to know such graphic illustrations and to know that was something that was totally disrespectful to her as a woman,

and i know that's not the person he is. he totally respects women. i looked at especially this last lady, and the things that she said. and i'm thinking, he would have to have a split personality to do the things that she said. >> now, in that interview with fox news, gloria cain also was asked if she ever imagines living in the white house. >> sometimes i let myself go there. but then i try to pull myself back in that i don't want to start projecting too far in the future, because then i would worry more. >> our new cnn poll tonight suggests mrs. cain and her husband might not need to worry so much. new numbers are dramatic allegations the of the sexual harassment are taking a toll. the new national poll of

republicans shows mitt romney atop the gop pack but former speaker newt gingrich has surged into a statistical dead heat. cain is now running a distant third at 14% support among republicans nationally. that is down 11 points from just last month. 60% of republicans think the allegations are overblown, but this is important. 4 in 10 find them tore serious. that matters in a close race. and there is a giant gender gap. 42% of men say the allegations are serious, 61% of women say that. so can cain recover and did his performance in this weekend's foreign policy debate help or hurt the cause? cnn contributors mary madeline and eric erickson are here tonight. mary, i want to start with gloria cain. she has not been heard from in the campaign. they decided they need to have her out in the public sphere. she did an interview with greta van susteren of fox news. will that help him? >> yes, particularly coming on the same day as the boyfriend at the time of the allegation is validating it. and she is such a lovely woman,

yes. that's very helpful. but i don't think it's determinative, because people have already made up their mind one way or another on the substance of it. the larger problem is where you started. he did not perform on saturday night. and he doubled down on his nonperformance today at a wisconsin editorial board. and he just -- he's worn out that place where people were giving him slack for being a nonpolitician. and his vague answers and his lost answers are the likes he gave today in wisconsin are a bigger problem for him in the long run than this recent unpleasantness i think. >> in an editorial with the milwaukee newspaper, he was asked where he agreed and disagreed with president obama's handling of libya. listen. >> so you agreed with president obama on libya or not? >> okay.

libya. president obama supported the uprising, correct? president obama called for the removal of gadhafi. just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing before i say yes i agree or no, i didn't agree. i do not agree with the way he handled it for the following reason. no, that's a different one. see, i've got to go back. i've got all of this stuff twirling around in my head. >> eric, he's not being asked about some policy in some country that we haven't dealt with front and center. he's not being asked, you know, what are the historical relationships with, you know,

former soviet block republicans. he has been asked about something that has been on the front page for months and months and months. what does that tell you? >> he should have ended with an oops and done damage control tomorrow like rick perry. my problem with the herman cain campaign has never been this scandal, the sex scandal or what have you. it's been that he has risen to the top, and he has bush league staffers with him. and top staffers should not send him particularly to wisconsin to the editorial board there because his chief of staff there has problems in wisconsin, they're going to get into those questions. he shouldn't be doing editorial boards to begin with. herman cain has a staff problem that's going to get him wiped out. >> i met mary madeline when she was working for president george h.w. bush, and that campaign had a pretty good staff. i always called the cain campaign staff, forgive me, the island of misfit toys, is where i think they belong. mary, look at our opinion of cain, favorable/unfavorable. and we have talked about this before. he rocketed up to the top

because people liked him. they were looking for an alternative, maybe looking for a conservative alternative. maybe they didn't like rick perry's introduction to the race and they meet this new guy, not a traditional politician but his favorable are now 47%. unfavorables go up from 8% in june to 31% now. that's trouble with the capital t., mary, if approximate likability was your chief currency. >> well, that's what happens when you get to be the -- in the front-runner position. it never doesn't happen. so that's not too unusual. but we have to remember that his assent was steeped or grounded not so much in his candidacy, although the 9-9-9 thing was provocative and got people to pay attention. but it was more grounded. his ascent was more grounded than perry's descent. and cain -- he has just done a

trajectory that can't be supported by either as eric says, his campaign or his -- what we also see in focus groups is people like him, even though that's diminishing, which is normal. but they don't see him as president. and while they have issues with perry, they do see him as president. while they have issues with newt, they do see him as president. primary electorates always have this in the back of their mind, who versus obama. so he just -- he doesn't cut it on that level. i mean, eric, disagree or agree on that point. >> the presidency, where he has power, foreign policy. this issue on libya, the president doesn't have to go to congress for much of this stuff. and cain is suggested to people maybe he's not ready yet. >> and mary, governors have run before your guy, h.w. bush ran against clinton and said he didn't get it. but in terms of governors somehow new to national stage,

the pakistan question, i was frankly, again, front and center, one of the biggest stories, you're not asking the name of the president of some far-away country somewhere. his answer was rambling and amateur. >> well, yes. and particularly compared to governor perry, which is pretty solid. and he opened up a whole new avenue of thought on his foreign aid. how do we dispense foreign aid. so he's been -- whatever his debate gaffes were, which they were nonexistent on saturday. he was stellar. too bad nobody watched that one. he consistently opened up good issues, provocative issue positions and he has a good record. and cain is going in reverse. and newt is -- newt is where newt is. but essentially, the whole dynamic is as it always was. there's a quarter that are for mit and then there's the 75% for anybody but mit. so we're cycling lieu that 75% but we're narrowing it down i

think perry and newt. >> people start voting in fewer than 50 days. so that crowd better pick soon. perry is hoping their split. up next, a supreme court sets the stage for what will be one of its biggest decisions in years. it has an hd webcam, killer audio, and lids that switch to start every semester fresh. but mostly it helps me try new moves on and off the court. ♪ [ male announcer ] featuring windows 7 and windows 7 live messenger. for a limited time, purchase select dell pc's and receive our holiday photo solution. our gift to you.

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welcome back. here's the latest news you need to know right now. today the supreme court announced it will take the case

against president obama's health care law. expect oral arguments in late february or march and a ruling by june on whether it's constitutional for the federal government to require you to buy health insurance. the fbi reports hate crimes in the united states continue at a steady pace. the latest numbers, 6,628 cases in 2010. that's about two dozen more than the year before. new disclosures show warren buffett's finally getting into tech stocks. his company, berkshire hathaway, invested in intel and satellite television service directv in the third quarter, in addition to his previously disclosed purchase of shares of ibm. the stock market's started the week on a losing note. the dow industrials, nasdaq, s&p 500 down 1%, again on worries about europe's debt crisis. our number tonight has nothing to do with wall street. it is 35%. that is the highest -- that is the highest mitt romney has ever fared in one of our national polls. now, 26% is the highest governor romney has been with the texas governor, rick perry in the

race. if you check it out, watch this here, this is it. and a lot of republicans talk about this. you see romney, these are national polls of republicans. look at that line. mid 20s. just look at that flat line. pulls out, pulls out. he's at 24 in our latest poll just out today. wow. and a hospital -- you know what i mean, if you see that on the graph in the hospital you know what that means. but romney is still the leader of the pack. here is governor perry, got in the race in august, zoomed to the top, debates didn't help. he's down to 12% right now. speaker gingrich, a lot of republicans -- when his staff collapsed in june said he's done. watch this. he's low, he's low, he's low, he's low. bang, up comes speaker gingrich, 24. romney, 22. gingri gingrich. 12% for perry. you just heard in the last conversation, will one of these guys, perry or gingrich emerge as the conservative challenger to romney? more on that and our new numbers showing, wow, how america is divided. next. the postal service is critical to our economy--

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erin burnett out front here with her preview. you have more important information on the penn state investigation. >> that's right. we do, john. we're going to be talking to the state senator who said he would ask institute leaders to move a bill he introduced back in 2005, which is incredible when you look at it now, because that bill would have made it against the law to not report child abuse. that's right, in pennsylvania it's not a problem if you don't

report it to authorities. he put forth a bill in 2005 to change that. interesting to think how things might have been different if that law might have been in effect when this started. we're going to talk to him about that. we're also going to have on an american held in an egyptian jail as a spy this summer, john. find out his story, what's really going on there. plus, the bottom line on the herman cain story tonight. as his wife gets ready for her interview. and silvio berlusconi. you know how i couldn't resist him. and now he's gone, john. so we found a replacement. >> i look forward to that. i'm just going to leave it right there. but i do look forward to that. erin, we'll see you in just a few. >> see you soon. >> see you then. first it was bachmann, then perry, then cain. now newt gingrich is the surge candidate in the republican presidential race. our new cnn poll shows mitt romney atop the gop pack. but gingrich is on his heels and up 14 points from just a month ago. a second new national poll out tonight reinforces just how

polarized our political environment is these days. the battleground survey conducted from politico at george washington university finds the country evenly divided when voters are asked to choose between reelecting president obama or picking an unnamed republican opponent for president. and evenly divided again when asked if they plan to vote democrat or republican for congress next fall. that survey was conducted by gomez and lake with us tonight. so let's start there. we have this 43-43. i was going to say 50-50 country. but there is a group in the middle that doesn't know what to make of anything. i have this theory sometimes in 2008 a country elects a president who is probably a little bit left to the country as a whole. then in 2010, the tea party comes along and elects a house and goes probably a little further to the right than the country is as a whole. so will 2012 be the tie breaker or are we going to have another evenly divided? >> well, the good news is, when you actually look at the data underneath and we get to run against a real republican

against a generic republican -- generic republican never harassed a woman or flip-flopped on an issue so it's a little bit of an unfair comparison. but when we get real republicans to run against, we have advantages of five and six points so i think we're feeling better about the real contest. >> you make that point. you think that the president and certainly we have seen him improving his standing in recent days. you agree he's better now than a month or two in some ways. however, you write thisnal says saying there is an opening for democrats -- you write analysis saying this guy is jimmy carter. >> he is jimmy carter, in several different measurements. right direction, wrong track, worst in the country in decades. but more importantly, if you look at his job approval, being upside down, by 8 percentage points, at this same period of time jimmy carter was upside down by 7 points. they are the only two presidents at this stage of the campaign that were upside down in terms of their job approval. so there's a comparison there.

in terms of the country being divided, it's divided, but one of the things that i think she does mention in her analysis that certainly is something to look at very closely, is we have seen another spike in the direction of republicans on intensity. we were running about 7, 8 points, we're now back up into the double digit that we were leading into the 2010 campaign. >> that has to scare you a bit. >> it does. >> 2006-2008, democratic intensity. 2008, tea party conservative caused a wave. you're essentially asking do you want to keep the car, do you like the car, do you want to keep it. i want to show the wrong-track numbers on the screen. we go back as far as july 2009, the country heading in the wrong direction. you see end the spike up. 75%. if 3 in 4 men's think the country is going in the wrong way, the train is on the wrong track, do you really think they're going to reelect the conductor? >> i think part of the problem

is there are two conductors right now, the republican congress and there's the president. and i think in 2010, people said i don't care who is in charge, we'll put anybody in charge. we'll put our neighbor in catch, our dog catcher in charge. and i think the 2011 election showed a lot of people think, hey, there is bad change here. they're going too far. so i think that 2012 is going to be a real choice, as you said. the penld lum swung both ways. now we're going to come and make a real choice. i also think that character is going to matter. and in this poll, the president's numbers on character off the charts. >> incredibly likeable president still. >> and respected. >> in terms of that measurement. but they are ultimately going to come back to looking at the performance. and if you look at the different performance measurements we tested, whether it's on the economy, whether it's dealing with congress, which got much worse, whether it's jobs, which he has been campaigning on for the last two months that did not get any better, or looking at spending, he is upside down by all those measurements between 18 and 31 points. so ultimately, they're going to start by saying do i want to

rehire this person. i kind of tease solinda a little bit when she talks about character being a key issue, that's code word for all that's left is character assassination. >> you don't have to don't have anybody, probably because they do a good job of it themselves. >> our poll is in the national field a few days after you guys. >> yeah. >> most of the numbers match up pretty good. which in terms of the mood of the country, it's pretty stable. but we had romney in -- in our new numbers, romney beats obama. just by a couple of points. but if you ask among independents, romney, 51. obama, 43. when you look at these republicans -- and i know you mentioned that candidates flip-flop on the issue. i would guess that governor romney is the person you have in mind. when we look at what dnc spent its money on and president obama, do you worry about that?

>> well, i think he's the likely nominee. so that's why -- frankly, i'm really personally surprised that perry didn't do better and i think that there's a whole bunch of republican voters -- one thing that is significant is that a bunch of front -- >> 61% of republicans say that they might change up their mind. the voting starts in 47, 48 days in iowa. is that a high number? >> and the key voting is it starts in 48 days. one of the things that we see in politics is that the nominee that comes out of the process does not look like anything going into the process. in fact, one of the key things on independents is angry independents that are voting in a presidential year, we know where they are. they are going to end up not being all of those that you're reporting. some of those that you are not reporting. but independents are not who the romney and other republicans are campaigning to right now. they are campaigning to the

base. so of course you're not going to see the independents doing it as well. the one thing we saw in our poll that i think will be interesting in talking about other national polls is we looked at the 108 -- the 111, 112 states that are the toss up on the electoral college. romney was tied with obama and on the generic ballot we were leading by nine points. >> i'm sorry, thanks for coming in. we're out of time. >> thank you. >> we'll come back to these issues, though. up next, a prominent christian leader says that he doesn't trust president obama. we'll put bob jones to the truth test. we're america's natural gas and here's what we did today: supported nearly 3 million steady jobs across our country... ... scientists, technicians, engineers, machinists... ... adding nearly 400 billion dollars to our economy...

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it's a lesson all of us earn at a pretty young age. if you don't have anything good to say about someone, then just don't say anything. then, of course, there's the golden rule. treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. you can find those writings along confuscious and in the teachings of the bible. do to others that you would have due to you for this sums up the law. no matter your faith. too bad job bones, iii, won't follow it. he's the chancellor in greenville, south carolina. a bio says of jones, he grew up

in a house of christ and chose christ as his personal savior in his high school years. so he has this in common with president obama. >> what does that mean to you to trust in christ? on a daily basis, what does that really look like? >> well, as a starting point, i believe in -- that jesus christ died for my sins and that i'm redeemed through him. >> except, dr. jones doesn't see the president as a brotheren this christ. he says, quote, i have no reason to think that he's a christian. anyone can say he's a christian. some people will say whatever they think the political helpful thing would be. i say, where is the evidence that he's a christian. for this, dr. jones, a third generation christian preacher, apparently isn't good enough. >> they are called to fix what was broken in our world. a call rooted in faith, which

led me a few years out of college to sign up as a community organizer for a group of churches on the south side of chicago. and it was through that experience, working with pastors and lay people, trying to heal the wounds of hurting neighborhoods and that i came to know jesus christ for myself and embrace him as my lord and saviour. >> dr. jones is not the first to question. >> you can be born a jew but you can't be born a christian. the only way to be born a gist extent is receive jesus christ by faith into your heart. he died for our sins and got brought him to life. if you're willing to accept that and let jesus christ be the lord of yourself, god will forgive your sins and heal your heart and that's the only way that you

can become a christian. so if the president has done that, then i would say that he's a christian, if that's what he has done. >> if that's what he has done. notice the skepticism at the end. but he says he takes the president as his word. dr. jones clearly doesn't. if you keep reading that, you understand why the for dr. jones is coming from. i have a great distrust for him. i think he's moving his country in a socialist direction as fast as he can which is colored with suspicion. colored with suspicion. i could pounce on that line. but, instead, i'll invoke the golden rule. but, then asked about false rumors, the president is muslim and wasn't born in the united states. the national journal writes that pass store jones paulsed and chuckled. quote, i have my personal thoughts about that but i'm not sure i want to make this public." that's a long wind up to tonight's important truth. dr. jones should