by the sugar plum fairy dancing in tun employment line or peeing in a cup for that matter. a merry ridiculist to all and to all a good night. that's it. thanks for watching. good evening, everyone. recession in europe, 2012 could good evening, everyone. tonight, as more accusers comes back, there's more news on the penn state scandal.

protesters here in new york. like pictures from zuccotti park. the verdict came down as dark descended this evening. the tents were removed and protesters allowed to go back in to get their personal belongings. the new york state supreme court overturning an earlier ruling on this and we are going to have the latest on this breaking story and the implications from the park tonight. but first, we have developing news in washington. the co-chair of the super committee charged with cutting america's deficit said just moments ago, quote, we are in the hours to go. and the countdown is on. this is important and we are watching. the panel of 12 has got eight days, four hours and as you can see 58 minutes i and 11 seconds and counting to make a deal that cuts america's deficit. if there is no deal when this clock hits zero, our economy will be hurt. your interest rates may go up and companies won't hire. we reached out to our sources. we know that today the six

republican members met for breakfast and the six democrats met at the capitol in the afternoon. we need all 12 to be super heroes. they can really change the world and one came "outfront" tonight. congressman bassera. he said this week could be magical and i asked him what he meant. >> if we're going to have the stars align, it has to be this week. in the next few days, we'll know if we're able to put aside those special interest pledges and come out with a good compromise for the american people. >> do you think that -- you've been a proponent of going big as in shooting for $4 trillion of cuts to the deficit as opposed to the $1.2 trillion minimum the committee must come up with. do you think there's any chance of going above $1.2? >> i think there is a great chance. it does require us to be by partisan and come out with balance. the bigger you get, the more the hurt.

so if we want to do something where there's shared sacrifice where everyone participates and you go big, you send a very strong signal but it is tough. i think the public and the markets will appreciate if we do something big that shows that america can get itself back on track and put americans back to work. >> they sure will. we don't have to come back and do this again in another year or so, because at $1.2, we might end up in that position. there was a great analysis in the "new york times" magazine noting that taxing millionaires at 100% wouldn't have as much of an effect as actually having an increase in taxes of 8%. the point was not to say you should not tax millionaires. the point was to say that no one group could solve all of our problems if we were to raise taxes. is that something that the super committee as a group, democrats and republicans agrees with? >> i would say that this should

never be a process about targeting people or programs. it should be a process to come out with the best way to come out with the plan that shows balance in how we go about extracting savings. and so every time you hear about increasing revenues, it is more because we understand over the last decade, it is the wealthy that benefited so much by the policies in place through the bush tax breaks and so forth. it's not a matter of just telling wealthy. because you're wealthy, we want to target you. they're the ones that benefited at a time that the american middle class was being hollowed and there are 14 million americans still looking for a job. most of them, part of that middle class until a few years ago. >> right. absolutely the case. it is interesting when we looked at it from a numerical perspective. i know this oversimplifies the debate. if you were to get rid of the bush tax cuts on people making over $250,000, you could raise

-- it would be $800 billion. if you got rid of them on everybody, it is $2.8 trillion, according to the cbo. it does make a big difference to this point. not any one group. whether cutting medicare order over who or raising taxes only on the wealthy. >> you have to have a balanced approach. it makes no sense to tell seniors that their social security benefits will be cut to pay for deficits when social security didn't contribute a cent to these deficits. but if you're requesting to have a big package that really goes into the future, certainly could you ask everyone to participate. but it's simply a matter of making decisions about your priorities. and in this case, if you want to really get the country back on track, you really do want to go big. be bold. but certainly, tell the american people that it will be fair. it will be balanced. >> what about defense? one of the big issues, secretary of defense panetta has been

very, very loud about this saying that if you don't do your job, he has to cut $1.2 trillion in total from the defense budget. that would hurt america's defense. but when you look at the numbers, and i would ask this question recently. eisenhower, george h.w. bush and nixon all cut defense by a lot more than that. so are massive and extra defense cuts on the table? >> well, they certainly are on the table because of the sequestration, the automatic cuts that will come if we don't come out with a deal. i will say this. the department of defense has to acknowledge that in the last ten years, the increased spending that occurred in those ten years, two-thirds went to the department of defense. so if the problem here is excessive spending, 65% of the excess spending was done by one department and one department only. that doesn't mean we should do anything to harm the training and equipping of our troops and making sure they have what they need if we send them into battle

but it does mean the department of defense shouldn't undergo an audit. it is the only department that could not undergo an audit because they don't have their books in order. that doesn't make sense. everyone has to be more responsible. >> thanks again. >> thank you. >> so, let's bring in john avalon, senior columnist for the daily beast and "newsweek." good to see you tonight. going big. that's what bacerra wants. you're hearing probably not. >> we're hearing a lot of cynicism in washington but cynicism passes for wisdom in washington. i think there are folks holding out hope. i liked that he said they could make a deal. maybe bigger than $1.2.

the g-20, comm, apec and ttp in hawaii are now here in australia and next to bali for the e-20 summit. this speaks to how countries work together on a wide range of

issues. in my friend julia, i see how we admire most in our friends. someone who is down to earth, easy to talk to and who says it like it is: straight up. that's why we achieved so much today. we agreed to work together to provide jobs for our people, by bringing our economies and those of the region even closer together. building on our progress at apec, we're going to keep striving for a seamless regional economy. australia and the united states are helping to lead wait to a new model for trade across the region. and along with our g-20 partners, we agreed that we have to stay focused on the growth that creates jobs and that every nation needs to play by the same economic rules of the road. as to global partners, we discussed the whole range of challenges where we stand shoulder to shoulder, including afghanistan. obviously, this has not been an

easy mission for either of our countries, and our hearts go out to the families that were affected on october 29. but we both understand what's at stake, what happens when al-qaeda has safe havens. we've seen the awful loss of life from 9/11 to bali. so i thanked australia for its strong commitment to this mission, i salute the extraordinary sacrifices of our forces who serve together, including your australian troops who have shown that no job is too tough for your dig gers. today we affirmed the way forward. the transition has begun, afghans are stepping into the lead. as they do, our troops, american and australian, will draw down responsibly together so that we preserve the progress that we've made. and by 2014, afghans will take full responsibility for security in their country. but our focus today, as the

prime minister said, was on preparing our alliance for the future. and so i am very pleased that we are able to make these announcements here together on australian soil. because of these initiatives that are the result of our countries working very closely together as partners, we are going to be in a position to more effectively strengthen the security of both of our nations and this region. as julie described, we are increasing our cooperation, and, i would add, america's commitment to this region. our u.s. marines will begin rotating through darwin for joint training and exercises, our air force will rotate additional aircraft through more airfields in northern australia. these rotations, which are going to be taking place on australian basis, will bring our militaries closer and make them even more

effective. they will enhance us to train effectively with allies and partners across the region, and that in turn will allow us to work with these nations even faster in a wide range of challenges, including humanitarian crises and disaster relief as well as promoting cooperation across the region. this tradition builds upon the best of our alliance. for decades, australians have welcomed us to work, train and exercise together. i'm looking forward to being at darwin tomorrow to thank our troops, both australians and americans, for the incredible work they are doing. finally, as i'll discuss more in my parliament speech tomorrow, this deepening of our alliance sends a clearer message of our commitment to this region, a commitment that is enduring and unwavering. it's a commitment i'll support

in bali and i appreciate the nation that has addresses what affects all of us, like maritime security. again, i'm very pleased i was able to make these important announcements during my visit. madam prime minister, i thank you for being such a strong partner and voice in our alliance. again, i want to thank our people for the kindness they've shown me four years ago and the kindness they showed me during my visit today. it's that friendship and solidarity that makes and keeps our alliance one of the strongest in the world. >> thank you. i will turn to taking some questions. i think we'll take one from the australian media first. it's phil hudson. >> philip hudson from the sun. mr. obama, welcome to aus trail yachlt you have outlined for us what is significant u.s. troop

buildup. how much of this is because you're worried about the rise of china? and under today's deal, u.s. marines will be, for the first time, conducting exercises by themselves on australian soil. why is that and what will they be doing? and, mr. president, you also mention in your remarks that afghanistan is not an easy mission. in the past few months, there have been three cases for australia where our troops have been shot at by the afghan soldiers who have been training, and sadly, four of those soldiers died and many others have been injured. public opinion is strongly against our involvement continuing. you outlined the drawdown. what do you say to the australian people who don't want to wait, who want to leiave immediately? >> first, with respect to these new initiatives, this rotational deployment is significant because what it allows us to do is to not only build capacity

and cooperation between our two countries, but it also allows us to meet the demands of a lot of partners in the region that want to feel that they're getting the training, they're getting the exercises and that we have the presence that is necessary to maintain the security architecture in the region. and so, you know, as julia mentioned, this is a region that's becoming increasingly important. the economy in this area is going to be the engine for world economic growth for some time to come, the lines of commerce and trade are constantly expanding, and it's appropriate, then, for us to make sure that not only our alliance but the security architecture of the region is updated for the 21st century. and this initiative is going to allow us to do that.

it also allows us to respond to a whole host of problems, like humanitarian or disaster relief, that, frankly, given how large the asia pacific region is, it sometimes can be difficult to do, and this will allow us to be able to respond in a more timely fashion and also equip a lot of smaller countries who may not have the same capacity, it also allows us to equip them so they can respond more quickly as well. i guess the last part of your question with respect to china, i've said repeatedly and i'll say today, we welcome a rising, peaceful china. you know, what they've been able to achieve in terms of lifting hundreds of millions of people out of poverty over the last two decades has been nothing short of remarkable. and that is good not just for

china, but it's potentially good for the region, and i know australia's economy, obviously, has benefited by the increased demand that you're seeing in china. the main message that i've said not only publicly but also privately to the chinese is that with their rise comes increased responsibilities. it's important for them to play by the rules of the road and, in fact, help underwrite the rules that have allowed so much remarkable economic progress to be made over the last several decades. and that's going to be true on a whole host of issues. so where china is playing by those rules, recognizing its new role, i think this is a win-win situation. there are going to be times where they're not, and we will

send a clear message to them that we think they need to be on track in terms of accepting the rules and responsibilities that come with being a world power. with respect to afghanistan, you know, the impact of any loss of life among our troops is heartbreaking. and obviously, as president of the united states, there is no greater responsibility and nothing more difficult than putting our troops in harm's way. i think prime minister gallard feels the same way i do, which is we would not be sending our young men and women into harm's way unless we thought it was absolutely necessary for the security of our country. what we have established is a transition process that allows afghans to build up their capacity and take on a greater

security role over the next two years, but it's important that we do it right. as some of you are aware, i just announced that all remaining troops in iraq will be removed. it would have been tempting, given that i imposed the iraq war from the start when i got into office to say, we're going to get you all out right away. but what i recognized was that if we weren't thoughtful about how we proceed, then the enormous sacrifices that had been made by our men and women in the previous years might be for naught. what i would say to the australian people at this point is given the enormous investment that's been made and the signs that we can, in fact, leave behind a country that's not perfect but one that is more

stable, more secure and does not provide a safe haven for terrorists, it's appropriate for us to finish the job and do it right. >> if i could just add to that and say every time i have met president obama and we've talked about our alliance, we've talked about our work in afghanistan, and in our meetings both formal and informal, the president has shown the greatest possible concern for our troops in the field. in the meetings we've had over the last few weeks at various international events, we've coincided with some difficult news we've had from afghanistan, and every step of the way, the president has gone out of his way to convey to me his condolences for the australian people, and particularly for the families that have suffered such a grievous loss. >> and we've been listening to a joint news conference being held by the australian prime minister julia gallad, and the u.s.

president, barack obama. a couple interesting points which came out of that. we have some new details about this joint military engagement that these two countries will embark upon from midway through next year. it will see 250 marines rotating through an australian basis through the upscale of these two countries which have a long history. 60 years of the alliance, australian, u.s. and new zealand alliance which is being celebrated this year, eventually that increase of australian forces will rise to 2,500. what was the other important thing being said is that the backdrop to all of this is china. that was the first question the president received from the press corps there is how much of this trip and that military

deployment is to do with china? he dodged the question to a point, but essentially what we are seeing right now, and the president touched on this, is that the u.s. is making the asia pacific region a new priority. other presidents have tried before with limited success, but given now the presence that china has in asia, it would seem that mr. obama may have a renewed interest in countries aligning themselves with the united states against a rising china. we will continue to monitor that press conference. if there is anything new which comes from it, we will bring you straightaway, but for now, we will take a short break, and for our viewers in the united states, we return you to normal programming. for everyone at cnn international, a short break. our report will continue right after this. we have more breaking news. an earthquake hitting indonesia. according to the u.s. geological survey, the 5-point magnitude quake which we just heard of

moments ago was centered in indonesia. we have heard a tsunami warning was not issued, obviously important. number two, a clash on capitol hill over withdrawing american troops from iraq today. senator panetta appeared before the congress today. senator mccain accused him of putting iraq before america. >> and the truth is that this administration was committed to the complete withdrawal of u.s. troops from iraq and they made it happen. >> senator mccain, that's just simply not true. i guess you can believe that, and i respect your beliefs. >> and i respect your opinion, and the outcome is exactly as predicted. >> that's not how it happened. >> it is how it happened. >> this is about negotiating -- this is about negotiating with a sovereign country, an independent country. >> there were sparks there. now, president obama announced

the complete withdrawal of troops after iraq refused to grant immunity to u.s. troops past december 31st. number three, the u.s. postal service lost more than $5 billion in its 2011 fiscal year. we crunched the numbers. here's what we found the the amount of first class mail in this country has dropped more than 20% in the past five years. with half of it coming from first class mail, they're getting crushed. number four, the clock is ticking for the supercommittee. patty murray now telling reporters there are just hours to go. it's true. and congressman havasera told me that he thinks they're on track to do a deal and do more than they're mandated to cut. more jobs. it has been 102 days since the u.s. lost its top credit

rating. what are we doing to get it back? hopefully more than belgium. the country has the same rating we do, and their economy didn't grow at all in the third quarter. hours did. former penn state football coach jerry sandusky says he denies a shower rape ever took place. this contradicts the grand jury testimony in which mcquery said he witnessed the attack. mcquery has reportedly been e-mailing friends, telling them he stopped the rape but not physically. i'm not sure what that means. jerry sandusky broke the silence last night about the accusations that he abused boys for over 15 years. paul, i want to begin, for people who haven't heard it, it's just going to make your jaw drop even if you have heard this before. let's listen to jerry sandusky speak to bob costas last night and then get your reaction.

>> are you a pedophile? >> no. >> are you sexually attracted to young boys, to underage boys? >> am i sexually attracted to underage boys? >> yes. >> sexually attracted, you know, i enjoy young people. i love to be around them. but no, i'm not sexually attracted to young boys. >> did he help or hurt his case? >> oh, this is the most disastrous thing i've ever seen in a criminal defense case. it's the jonestown defense. remember the leader, the religious leader and all his followers committed suicide. he's admitted that he may, in fact, be a pedophile. did you hear how long the delay was before he answered the question? you just got something in your stomach as you were listening to it. he also, of course, admitted that he showered with these little boys. he's admitted things that the

prosecutor might have trouble proving and he's already put that on the board. the prosecutor is 60% of the way to proving this case already just on his statement alone. >> so what does the fact his lawyer sitting there, does that change anyway what will be admissible, what isn't going to be admissible? >> it changes something in a major way and i haven't seen this happen in a high-profile criminal case ever. i think the attorney now could be called as a witness against him because he has waived the attorney/client privilege. when you allow your attorney to go on television and reveal conversations that he has had with you about how the alleged crime took place, that's a waiver of the attorney/client privilege. >> that's the guy you see sitting next costas? >> approving the interview and endorsing this theory if you just say you were taking showers with little boys, that means you're not a pedophile. i don't know who concocted that defense. but it's not going to play in a pennsylvania jury room or any other jury room. >> that was the most -- i don't

know what was the most shocking thing about that interview. my jaw was dropping. i was truly shocked. but to even think that in in way being naked with a boy, a 10-year-old boy -- >> that it is acceptable? it's athletes horsing around? he is just -- they have a view of the world that is so at odds with the real world. i don't know what's going on in the happy valley of penn state, but they're very distanced from reality there. 55-year-old men don't shower with little boys. and when they do, it's an indication that something is radically wrong. >> something is terribly wrong. thank you very much. paul will be with us later in the show as well. the former head football coach legend joe paterno as you are likely aware by now, was fired last week after the grand jury testimony revealed that paterno was told that sandusky raped a boy in the locker room in 2002. at the time, paterno told his

boss, hey, sandusky, you can't come in the locker room anymore and the matter was dropped. despite the scandal, many are still believers in paterno and one is hall of famer franco harris. he served on the board of second mile, sandusky's charity for young boys. we've seen him on our station covering this. he is "outfront" tonight. >> he was pretty distraught about all the sexual -- alleged sexual abuses of the kids. and you know he is hurt also. and just, you know, also talked football a little bit. and we definitely talked a little about what's going on. >> what did he say about jerry sandusky specifically? or did he give you any sense as to, well, gosh, i wish i had done this differently or that or

i feel this is unfair right now or any kind of clarity on that? >> well, he didn't have any clue about jerry sandusky, of all these allegations that were going to happen. and i really didn't ask him about the situation with reporting stuff. because when i read the grand jury report, and when joe reported to his superior. then i read the part, the superior is the vice president of penn state met with mike mcqueary. and i said, wow! okay. here's a guy who actually saw it talking to the higher-ups. >> you've been adamant that it was not right that he lost his job as head football coach, given that he did report what he was told to his higher-ups.

do you still feel that way? >> you know what, erin? he wasn't charged. and if you look at it, there has been no trial yet. and you're absolutely right. i think there is a rush to judgment. and i think he should not have been fired and i believe that they should rehire joe as soon as possible. >> all right. thank you very much. we appreciate your being with us again. >> thanks, erin. always nice to talk to you. >> the thing is that joe paterno was not alone in knowing about the child sex abuse and going to authorities. after all, he learned about it from the defensive coordinator, mike mcqueary, who just spoke to cbs news and we have this breaking sound for you. >> do you have any idea when you think you might be ready to talk? >> this process has to play out.

i don't have anything else to say. >> okay. >> and then just one last thing. describe your emotions right now. >> all over the place. just shaken. >> crazy? >> crazy. >> you said what? like a snow globe. >> yes, sir. >> like a snow globe. of course, mike mcqueary was the man who heard what he described as rhythmic slapping that night in the locker room at penn state. he said that he walked in on jerry sandusky raping about a 10-year-old boy in the shower, and then went the next morning to tell his boss, joe paterno. what they did was tell their boss. and what happened was jerry sandusky wasn't allowed in the locker room anymore. but no one told law enforcement authorities and laws on reporting abuse vary from state to state in this country. in 39 states, it is a misdemeanor for failing to report abuse with no jail time. it is a felony in only three states. senator menendez wants that to change. he is "outfront" to unveil action that he is taking.

this is action that you'll be taking tomorrow. you put it forward. what would it do? >> the child abuse responsibility and enforcement act would do three things. number one, it is the law of the land that you have to report. you have an obligation under the law to report acts of child abuse. two, that you have to report that to a police department and the social service agency. and number three, that failure to do so would mean a year, potentially a year in prison. and we seek to have the states make that the law of the land in every state by saying if you don't pass a law or if you don't have a law that has those three conditions, then you won't get access to $1.7 billion in social service block grants. and we think that is ultimately the way in which we protect our children. you think there would be a moral obligation to do this. but this will make a very clear legal obligation that if you see something, you have to say something and that has to be the

police and social service organizations. >> i googled today, i typed in what is child abuse. on google i got 44,100,000 responses. one example came from the santa clara county, california, county website talking about what would constitute forcing you to go and tell authorities. and i'm just curious, is part of the reason here we haven't had these laws in place because there is a lack of clarity about what abuse really is? >> well, we'll let the definition of abuse go by state law. but what is not clear in many states is what is your obligation, your legal obligation to report and what are the consequences? in some state, there are consequences for not reporting. we want to make sure there are clear consequences and we want you to understand that your failure to do that. you should that be worried about

your job or any other consequences. your failure to do that could land you in jail up to a year. we think this is the best way to protect our children. >> up to a year or minimum a year? >> minimum of a year. >> minimum. so in the case of joe paterno who told his boss but no one at penn state told authorities, in this case, mike mcqueary, joe paterno, all of those people could go to jail? >> well, first of all, the law is prospective. we would say anyone who found themselves in those conditions in the future, they would have an obligation to go directly to the police department. tell them what they saw. what they know as well as the social service entity of that state. therefore, they would meet their obligation under the law. failure to have gone to the police and the social service agency could land them in jail for a year. >> thank you very much and good luck with this. i think every one would say it's about time. shocking we didn't have this in place. senator menendez has been fighting for this for a long time so let's hope it goes through.

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we do this at the same time every night. our outer circle. we reach out to sources around the world. to be we begin in syria. protests have claimed 3,500 lives. today alone, 15 people died. ivan watson is in istanbul, turkey. why are they facing more international pressure now? >> reporter: the syrian government seems to have lost credibility in the eyes of many of its former allies. after eight months of violence, the arab league has suspended syria's membership after it dragged its feet. the turks threatened to cut off electricity to their neighbor after three turkish diplomatic missions were attacked on the same day by pro-government mobs on saturday. the europeans have slapped sanctions against 18 more senior regimes in syria. >> thank you very much. now to afghanistan where a title -- vital meeting of tribal

elders begins tomorrow under tight security and threats from the taliban. nick peyton walsh is in kabul. what's the focus of tomorrow's meeting? why is it so important? >> reporter: it's been called by hamid karzai to discuss the u.s. long-term military presence here but we've learned it may also hear important news for the transition away from nato forces to the afghans. two of the country's most volatile areas, may be among the next to be handed from nato forces to the afghan army to secure. now some say the afghans may not be ready to face this test. others say it is good that they try and see if they can while nato is still here in sufficient number to help out. >> thank you. to south africa where one rhino is killed every 21 hours. the black market rhino horn trade is threatening the animal's extinction. why the surge in rhino poaching? >> reporter: it is falsely believed in places like vietnam

that rhino horn can cure all sorts of illnesses. this is fueling the black market which is run by organized criminal syndicates. coming here to south africa with very sophisticated weaponry, night vision, helicopters and hunting down and murdering rhinos. people here are feeling helpless. at the current rate, people feel that rhinos will be extinct within a matter of years. >> thank you. now to occupy wall street. the new york supreme court overturning a ruling meaning that while protesters will be allowed to demonstrate in the privately owned park during the day, they are barred from setting up camp again. in addition to today's eviction in new york, the officials have cracked down on protests in at california, tulsa, oklahoma oakland, california, st. louis, missouri, portland, oregon, and denver, colorado. and late today, the texas judge cleared the way for the eviction of protesters in dallas. joining us today, poppy harlow. you've been there throughout the

day. what is it like tonight? are they going ahead and removing their belongings or no? >> reporter: no, they are actually gathering in a general assembly behind me. i'm told by one of the protestors, this is the biggest he's ever seen, by his estimates about, 1,000 or more protesters. in the park, in one protester's words, this has just galvanized the movement. what we had happen around 5:00 eastern today is in new york, the state supreme court judge reversing the earlier ruling saying the eviction was illegal and upholding the stance of the city and the company that owns this park, saying basically the first amendment rights do not apply to these protesters in terms of camping out overnight. they have the first amendment right to protest. they cannot set up camp here and live here. there's a lot of anger here at occupy wall street over exactly that. >> poppy, thank you very much. poppy has been covering this since the very early hours this morning when she went and saw

the police begin to remove the protesters. let's talk about the first amendment issues. paul callan is with me again. this is an interesting issue. they're being allowed to come in during the day and protest, but you can't camp out and it's a private park. is that okay or what? >> judge stallman, the new york judge who just said it's okay to throw them out temporarily so the city could clean it up comes from a liberal democrat background himself. he's a supporter of the first amendment. there's a long line of cases that says you can restrict time, manner and place of peaceable protest. it's allowed, and the city here has said this was a public health hazard. there was garbage and human waste accumulating and, by the way, this zuccotti park is kind of private and kind of public. it was given a public easement because zuccotti -- they were allowed, the developer was allowed to build if he created a public-accessible park. >> so it's quasi. >> so nobody really knows if the

first amendment totally applies to zuccotti park. but the judge said i will assume it does. even if it does, you don't have a right to camp out there permanently. you can't close down a train station, subway station, public highway to protest. you can reasonably protest at reasonable times and places, that's protected. but you can't move in and deprive the city of new york of one of its parks. >> this is where i'm curious, has this been tested before? you have a community of people who say their lives have been disturbed. they have shops there, they work there. then you have people coming in protesting. from a first amendment perspective, you have to choose between those people and the protesters, what's the precedent? >> it's been tested repeatedly. the precedent is that as long as it's conextent neutral, in other it's content neutral, in other words, you're not adopting a resolution because of certain kinds of speech. it's a public health regulation. but protesters are going to come in here and say that regulation saying you can't camp out in zuccotti park, it was passed

after we started camping out in zuccotti park, which is true. it did come about after the protests because nobody thought that anybody -- >> tents, there are new things that help get established, you try a new thing and test it. >> which is why the judge didn't depend on that regulation. he said the city has garbage regulations and public health regulations that are being violated. take it out, clean it up and protest during the day. what does your ringtone have to do with the future of innovation? john medved "outfront" with the mojo story. it's the second carer you always wanted. today's the day! and i've been looking forward to this for a long time. it's gonna be a big change. you ready? wow! just what i hoped for! just what you planned for. thanks! [ male announcer ] we're making people the tomorrows they always dreamed of.

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that's a ringtone. and it's big business. the ringtone market is a $2.1 billion industry. according to the "new york times," the next big thing in ringtones is a company called ringo. and ringtones are just the latest thing for ringo's founder, john medved. he's invested in 60 companies, including shopping.com and answers.com. jonathan medved comes "outfront" tonight. great to see you. you're coming outfront to talk about what america can do to get"outfront to talk about what america can do to get" to talk about what america can do to get it back, it being that excitement, we're number one, this is the best place in the world to create a business. >> mojo is state of mind. the real challenge for america is how do you go from silicon valley to silicon nation? there are many companies growing

and getting public here. you just don't feel it in cleveland, you don't feel it in rural parts of the country. entrepreneurship is driven by culture. the culture that basically accepts risk taking, that says risk is a good thing, i don't want government to take risk out of my life. risk is something that you just have to live with, okay? >> right. >> and if you build a company, you start a company and it fails, big deal, get over it. that kind of cultural driver for entrepreneurship is absolutely critical. >> how do we get it back in cleveland? especially where we're in an environment in this country where we seem to feel depressed about ourselves as opposed to feeling empowered that because things have been rough for a while, you now can surge? >> you basically start with the kids. kids today don't know what they don't know. they're ready to dare, they're ready to do it, but they're being told by their parents, you can't do that. for example, my company, ringo. when i wanted to go public on

the stock exchange, i didn't have revenue. everyone said, you can't do that. you're never going to get it done. it's not going to happen. i said, uh, watch me. and i went out and we came very close to not making it. you know, failure was at my door, but we succeeded. because without that kind of daring, it's not going to happen. there has to be a culture that accepts failure. that says failure isn't the end of the world? >> and doesn't have somebody coming out and taking that out of the equation, i.e., government. >> government can't be the thing that's going to essentially cushion your failure. >> what can the government do? >> the government has to realize they're playing in a flat world about and everybody wants these entrepreneurs. and if the american government or any other government doesn't make it hospitable for entrepreneurship, somebody else is going to grab them. but the most important thing is stay out of the way. let the private sector do what it needs to do. in a certain case, for example, in israel, there is a law that gives basically a taxbreak for early-stage venture investors, people are called angels. >> you put money into an unproven company?

>> the government says you can write that off. and your basis goes to zero. if you make money, get part of it back or make a lot of money, you pay taxes. but encourages people to take that risk both as an entrepreneur and as an investor. >> we can do that in the u.s.? >> i think we can. >> immigrants are part of it? >> in silicon valley, with all due respect, the people building these companies are not named wilson, jones and smith. they're coming from somewhere else, by and large. companies like yahoo! or google, there's something about the immigrant culture that says i've taken a risk, i've moved to a foreign country, i've set myself up. i was essentially the ceo of mylife.com. and those kinds of people are the kinds of people who will change the world and make companies that will employ a lot of people, create wealth, taxes and better the whole society. >> just like people like you. thanks so much, john medved.