we're live from the college of charleston. an important night in presidential politics. south carolina votes third. just 54 days from now and often settles republican nomination battles. leading republican contender newt gingrich is on campus tonight and will join us shortly for his first television interview since picking up the covet endorsement. we begin with breaking news against another presidential contender, herman cain. he revealed to cnn that a woman is coming forward alleging she had an extended affair with him. he denies it. this individual will accuse me of an affair for an extended period of time. i don't want to specify because i don't know what is in the story. secondly, it is someone that i know who is an acquaintance that i thought was friend of. >> television station ag.a identifies the accuser as ginger

white. she claim her affair with cain lasted 13 years. >> it was complicated. i was aware that he was married and i was aware that i was involved in a very inappropriate situation, a relationship. >> again, cain denies having an affair. in an exclusive interview with wolf blitzer, cain says the latest accusation won't force him out of the race. >> you're staying in the race. you're not dropping out. >> i'm not dropping out, no. as long as my wife is behind me and as long as my wife believes that i should stay in this race, i'm staying in this race. because i am sick and tired of the hurt and harm that somebody out there is doing to my family, more so to me work these baseless charges. what this says is that somebody is awfully afraid that i'm doing too well in this republican nomination to continue to dig up

these stories to try and put a cloud and a damper on my campaign. >> let's discuss the impact on the cane candidacy. kordell is with us also. he is working for the obama reelection campaign. and chief political analyst gloria borger. i want our viewers to hear a bit more. some extended sound from mr. cain's interview a short time ago with our colleague, wolf blitzer. >> they just that, you know, they mentioned the name of the individual. >> and you know this woman. >> i do know who she is. and they mentioned what the accusation would be. until the story comes out, i'm not at liberty to respond to something at this point. when the story breaks, through my attorney, lynn wood of atlantic, georgia, we will respond. we chased all these other rumors for two weeks before and as it turned out, they were baseless.

why? they were not able to come up with any documentation, any proof or anything that was credible. and so we will address these when they come out. but at this point, i just wanted to give you heads up. i don't have anything to hide. and we will address everyone of the details as we know them. >> tell us about the nature of your relationship with this woman. >> friend and trying to help a friend because not having a job, et cetera, and this sort of thing. that's all there is to the relationship. and here again, i don't know what will be claimed in the story. it was someone who was supposed to be a friend. but oxley, they did not see it as a friendship when you say friend, was it -- i'm asking. these are awkward questions but i'll ask you the questions you'll be asked. was this an affair? >> no. >> there was no sex. >> no. >> none. >> no. >> if this woman says there is, she's lying? >> well, wolf, let's see what the story will be. i don't want to get into being pinned down on some things until we see what the story will be.

>> but they basically gave you the outlines. the atlantic television. >> they gave my attorney the outline. so i'm now speaking secondhand in terms of what i know about the story. when we can the story, we will respond. >> mary matlin, he said it's not true. he said he needs to know more specifically about what the woman is alleging. as someone who knows the rough and tumble, how damaging is this to herman cain's candidacy which was already struggling? >> wellering didn't just say it wasn't true. he said it with emotion. although he was calm. he was very clear. he is definitive, demonstrative, he was calm. i don't know of any campaign that has ever survived such a moment like this and turned out to be bare-faced lying. we all what the one example is but that's the only one. and i don't think it can be repeated. mostly because of how you started the question.

his campaign is already struggling. newt gingrich, and you're in a very good place to evaluate how this will play out. it certainly is distracting. but fits a completely unfair assault, then who knows how people will respond in a fair-mined electorate. >> to that point, i'm in south carolina which votes third. 54 days from now. this is a state that herman cain had hoped to do well in. if you talk to activists, they say he was struggling a bit. we've talked in recent weeks about the struggles of the campaign on some of the issues in the debates. on some of the sexual harassment debates. can a campaign that needs to be near perfect, because he is an outsider, he doesn't have the infrastructure, survive something like this? >> i'm not sure whether it can. listening to his conversation with wolf, unlike the last time where they came out and made their defense without knowing

all the facts, the problem is that his lawyer has released the statement. i just got a copy of it a few minutes ago and it says this is not an accusation of an assault. this is a private alleged consensual conduct. this is outside the public's right to know. basically, turning what the public views as republican philosophy for the last 10, 15 years with bill clinton saying this was a private relationship. we won't comment. and the public doesn't really have a right to know. now if there is nothing there, i think they want to come out and be very forceful with it as herman was without this lawyer's statement that well, this is a private matter. >> erick was reading from that statement and i'll read a bit more. she said in that statement, no individual whether a private is it, should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. the attorney put out that statement. then you heard herman cain saying once he knew more, he would answer the questions.

so that the candidate trying to respond on live television. i get difficulty of that. but saying something that essentially contradicts a least what his attorney wants him to do. >> what cain issued to wolf was a blanket denial. what his attorney issued was a statement which essentially said whatever this is, should not be relevant to the companion because it's not a charge of harassment or assault. and he made the case that it is not something we ought to be talking about. i would argue that the voters ought to decide what's relevant to their votes and the iowa caucuses or the south carolina primary. but what you've got, and that was the most interesting they know to me. was the different statements from herald cain denial versus his attorney which isch essentially skirted the issue of whether this was true or false by saying, there is not an allegation here that herman cain broke the law by sexually harassing somebody who once worked for him.

>> so kordell, you're the democrat of the group so i'm not expecting you to defend herman cain. what goes through your mine? >> you cannot run for the office of presidency and be naive. this is not a game. we have people who are trained professionally to tear your life apart. the glare and the spotlight of running for presidency will burn your house down. and right now, herman cain's house is on fire. >> herman cain, house on fire. >> to that point, this has been a campaign that has reacted in different ways to the accusations. harangly criticizing some of the accusers. this was the week he was hoping to get much more back to the economics as we get closer and closer, inside six weeks to the votes. do they have a group together, a coherent group together to deal with this? >> i don't think so given what we saw today and the way he handled the charges today and the way he, his attorney handled them. which was completely different.

look, i think the herman cain campaign has been on a downward trajectory. i think not largely because of the sexual harassment charges. it is because of the way he did not answer the question on barack obama's libya policy. it is because republicans have decided may be they don't like 9-9-9 because of the national sales tax maybe some people believe he equivocated on the question of abortion. so i think that there are lots of other issues that play into this. i think the question of this will come down to who is telling the truth here. we don't know a lot about this woman at this point. we know that herman cain is unequivocally denied it. and at some point people will have to try and figure out whether he is telling the truth or she is telling the truth. and they may consider that to be relevant to their votes. >> john, this is a relevant point -- >> i'll ask everybody to stand by. go ahead. >> this relevant point is that they want a well-oiled team.

and lynn wood, we know as he great lawyer but that doesn't mean he is a good political communicator. he is saying, his nondenial in our world is perceived as a confession. that doesn't mean it's true. it just means he is bad at politics. >> that's true. >> an interesting point. the difference between a legal advice and political advice often can make a huge difference. much more in the explosive new allegations against herman cain. and we're a few minutes away from a conversation with the speaker of the house, newt gingrich. our machines help ideny early stages of cancer, and it's something that we're extremely proud of. you see someone who is saved because of this technology, you know that the things that you do in your life matter. if i did have an opportunity to meet a cancer survivor, i'm sure i could take something positive away from that. [ jocelyn ] my name is jocelyn.

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visit dell.com through monday for instant savings on some of our most popular products. herman cain revealing to cnn, a woman is coming forward accusing hill of having an extended extra-marital affair with her. ginger white is bases woman who claim her affair with cain lasted for 13 years. cain denies this affair but for now is not going into specifics and says he won't drop out of the presidential race. let me bring you through some of the stalts. this from cain's attorney. he wrote, quote, this is not an

accusation of harassment in the workplace. this is not an accusation of assault which are subject matters of legitimate inquiry. this appears to be an accusation of private alleged conduct between adults. a subject not subject to inquiry. no individual should be questioned about his or her private sexual life. that statement from lin wood, a short time ago, mr. kacain's attorney. he said that he has talked about it with his wife gloria. >> my wife's reaction was very similar to mine. here we go again. and when i told her what little information that i knew about it, her response was the same as mine. and that was, here we go again. we will basically show when the details become available that i didn't do anything wrong. >> again, the woman's name

making the accusation is ginger white. here's what she told station waga. >> he made it very intriguing. it was fun. it was something that took me away from my sort of him drum life at the time. and it was exciting. >> cnn contributor erick erickson, cornell, mary matalin and chief political analyst gloria borger still with us. you know herman cain. he said, she said. but he said she said at a very critical time of this campaign. >> it is. you know, listening to this, it makes wonder why anyone would ever want to run for office, the stuff that comes out. make sure your ducks are in a row. and largely, i think a lot of people. not herman himself. he really got into this thinking he could make a difference. that he could win. i think a lot of the people surrounded with herman, they never really thought that he could be president but they could probably get something out

of it. and so the campaign team wasn't really in it to win it. and gloria's point earlier, this is coming at a time when he is going down in the polls, not because of these other accusations. if anything they make him more sim that a athleticic to peel who feel like he's attacked. they inoculate newt gingrich to a lot of the attack that the there they go again attitude. he was already going down and now it will be difficult to get back on message to try to rebound. i'm not sure in the next five, six weeks, he'll be able to rebound enough. >> so mary, what do you do tonight and tomorrow if you're dealing with this? >> well, people have done campaigns, we're talking about this. we want to beat obama. we're willing to take a not perfect conservative for a good campaign. this is demonstrative of a not very good campaign. either the lawyer wasn't vetted or he is not a good communicator

or herald cain does his own thing. not relative to the actual charges. the handling will be relative. just get up tomorrow and do what he is going to do. quit talking about it but get back on message somehow. it is not an easy task he set up for himself. >> so herman cain to his credit is out doing interviews today knowing this was coming. if he's injure candidate, do you say go to the bunker or do you have him on live television saying something that ends up being a direct contradiction. >> why is he in these odd places doing interviews as opposed to being in south carolina and iowa and new hampshire if he is running a real campaign. look, in the end, it is, there is too much smoke for their not to be fire. in the en, for better or worse, us guys, women are the majority of the electorate here. whether you're a conservative woman or a liberal woman, you're at all this.

if you want to give him the benefit of the doubt. at some point there's way too much smoke and in the en, women pick who our presidents will be. not us men. and i think this is too damaging for him with women voters. whether you're a conservative or a liberal voter. >> to that point already, if you look at the polls among republicans, he wasn't doing very well with women. this kind of allegation on top of the allegations of sexual harassment is certainly not going to help him at the very least. and it is a campaign, as you point out, that is already headed in the wrong direct. and republicans want someone who can beat barack obama. if they have to keep every day waking up to new stories about herman cain, no matter how sympathetic they may be to herman cain personally, no matter how much they may like him. at a certain point they're going to say, you know what? we don't want to be surprised in the general election with more

stories about a candidate. we need somebody that we think can win. >> can i just say that mitt romney is the luckiest man on the planet? all of these guys just keep imploding. and romney just holds steady like 22 to 25%. the two luckiest men in the world going into a general. obama who can get a republican, who cannot get a republican to beat him. man, they're lucky. they need to play lottery numbers. [ laughter ] >> he sounded quite defiant in his conversation with wolf. that he is staying in this race until he said his wife tells him i've had enough. do you expect mr. cain to still be actively campaigning? he obviously can't take his name off the ballot. do you expect him to stay in and try to fight this out? >> there is no reason to get out now. it is not clear that iowa or new hampshire will be dispositive. i think south carolina will be more telltale.

we're in a completely different calendar this time. but i've never seen a campaign that could behave this poorly. just setting aside the issue relative to what we know is coming at us, as cornell keeps saying. fire, fire, one down our ice, there is smoke, fire, carpet bombing. we want a good campaign. we need to see a campaign that can respond to this separate from whatever the charges and the surprise is. we're not seeing it now. >> so mary, if you were advising him, what should he do tomorrow? >> say he -- >> get out? >> no. he shouldn't get out. for his family's sake if nothing else, he should the one saying i'm putting out statements. either one voice, the lawyer or tim. there's one message, whoever is delivering it. and there is immediate pivot to 9-9-9 or us beck stan or whatever it is.

dope go after the women or think about the motivations. although anybody who says 13 years is fair is an uncomplicated and simple thing makes me question her as a woman. but he should stay out of all this. he has a tendency to answer questions he doesn't need to. a lesson he needs to learn. i thought he already did learn, actually. >> appreciate your time. when we come back, we're live in south carolina because the republican candidate who is at the moment surging in the race, newt gingrich is here making an appeal to the tea party activists. it's like having portable navigation.

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newt gingrich is here in south carolina looking to bolster his standing in the state that brags it tends to settle republican presidential nominating contests. a heady time for the former house speaker. he skyrockets to the top of national poeg. this weekend he picked up the covet endorsement of the new hampshire union leader. the state's leading conservative editorial voice. it is clear he's trying to leverage the buzz in south carolina. tougher citizen civil of the former massachusetts governor mitt romney and a clear effort to consolidate the anyone but romney vote. listen. >> i think i'm the one candidate who can bring together a national security conservatives and economic conservatives and

social conservatives in order to make sure we have a conservative nominee. >> now here at the college of charleston, the former house speaker will make his case at a town hall organized by congressman tim scott. a local tea party favorite who has emerged as a leader. that town hall in a few moments. first, here to talk politics with us. welcome. i want to get to the specifics of this campaign. tonight the woman in atlanta is accusing herman cain, one of your rivals, of a 13-year extra-marital affair. a relevant issue or not? >> something that mr. cain will have to settle with the country and talk to the country about. it is sad to see that level of pain brought up. but i think he'll have to deal with it. >> it comes at a time when many people have questioned the viability of this candidacy. what is the buzz about herman cain in your state? >> i think the challenges are real. we've seen a lot of trying to second-guess themselves, trying

to find a new candidate and i think we have the newest candidate to my right. >> he is right here. to your right. is that where you want to be? to his right? >> let's talk about that. as you have skyrocketed in the polls, you know what comes with that. you get the kick me sign. your rivals are picking issues. one is what you call the humane position on immigration. you won't round up and kick whatever it, 10, 11 million people up and kick they will out. one of your rivals says you are the most liberal candidate in the republican field on immigration. one of the things she cites is this letter you wrote in 2004 trying to help president george w. bush push his policy through. you say keeping an open door to those with the will and the heart to get here is vital to our economy, our historic tradition as the lachbd freedom and you the. are you the most liberal candidate for president on the immigration issue? >> i have no idea. i think i'm the most common sense. my position is that we should control the border. i've guaranteed control by

january 1, 2014. we should have english as the official language of government. we should have an easier process of deporting those that should be be here and an easier visa program for those who want to come here legally. to go to school, to do business. i think with a gift worker program, probably outsourced to american express, visa or mastercard so it would work and there should be much steeper penalties for people who higher illegally. what i did say the other night is when you get done with all that, we need to have something like a world war ii selective service board. where local citizens would review and certify people who have been here 25 years, who have been obeying the law, paying taxes, might have two or three kids, a couple grandkids, be a member of your local church. i can't imagine that america is going to send police in to tear somebody out of a family in a community in that kind of setting. so i want to get to a common sense solution. no citizenship. no right to vote.

but end the ill illegal of it. for those a short period of time, go home and start over. >> to many, that sounds perfectly reasonable of if you go to a tea party rally, teem events. anything that allows somebody who broke the law to get here to stay, they call amnesty. is his position going to be a tough sell? >> i think it will be more difficult here than other places in the nation. we are simply a very strong anti-illegal immigration state. we will stay that way. you don't have to find the perfect candidate, however. what we need is someone who can beat president obama and someone who makes sense, that can bring our base together. we need to attract independent voters at the same time. so his immigration stand will not be the same as mine. that's okay. we have to find the common ground that moves this nation forward. with 10.5% unemployment in south carolina, that's the problem that we're focused on. >> another, there with the "washington post" story over the weekend. your finances. when you left the speakership and you left congress, you set up a publishing house, the "washington post" did a story.

they took something like $100 million. we can show our viewers at home, gingrich productions, the american solutions pac, the gingrich group. renewing american leadership, american solutions. all businesses. all thing that you were part of. you have every right in a capitalist society to go after making money. however, bachmann bl said this. unlike night gingrich and some of the other candidates, congresswoman bachmann hasn't played the washington insider games to pad her own pocket. how would you respond to that? >> well, i would say, as you said. i was a private citizen. i was out of government. i did what i think republicans and conservatives believe in. i started businesses. i hired people. i created jobs. in the process we served a wide range of peel. >> an easier time doing that than john q. public. >> sure. and i was relevantly fails. for example, i had 13 new york times best sellers. you would think that is a real

achievement. i've done seven documentaries. several which of have been very successful. they're weren't successful because lobbyists bought them. they're successful because they're good documentaries. there was a new book for children call sweet land of liberty. it became a new york times best seller. that's not insiderdom. that's old-fashioned american hard work doing something that i think republican and tea partiers believe in. the work ethic to create businesses, to create jobs. the other team, the left, that is opposed to being successful. not republicans. >> can congresswoman bachmann make that case that this guy is no outsider. >> i think anyone can make any case they want to make. the question is can this guy lead us into the promise land? we are used to, we've enjoyed for a long time, less than 7% unemployment. the question is, will he lead us back there? he was the first speaker of the house for a republican after 40

years. four decades of a war on poverty that fell miserably. if this guy is the idea guy he's always been, i think we may be the right place. >> you've said, and you're getting tougher of late. that governor romney is inconsistent. my term. not yours. inconsistent on some issues. one of those, you've had a change of heart as the individual mandate. this is "meet the press" in early 2011. >> all of us have a responsibility to help pay for health care. and i think that there are ways to do it that make most libertarians relatively happy. i've said consistently, we ought to have some requirement, either to have health insurance or you post a bond. >> would a president gingrich have an individual mandate or encourage states to have an inindividual mandate? >> one of the places i wasn't very clever, mitt raised this issue in one of our debates. if i would have been clever, i would say i've admitted i was wrong. i've learn and i've changed my

mind. why haven't you? >> could not he say that on issues where people have criticized him? >> why is it okay, people would say it's a flip-flop. >> part of it is the scale. if you run to the left of teddy kennedy, it is trickier than trying to run to the right of newt gingrich. part of it is the way did he some of it. i think it is legitimate. the question is, if you've been active as long as i have and you haven't changed in some things, you must be impervious to new information and new knowledge. there is certain growth that's inevitable. and people will look at new situations. i had over my entire career, a 90% voting record in the american conservative union. i don't think anybody thought of me as anything less than a solid conservative. i campaigned with reagan in 1979, 1980. helped with that majority in the early '80. i think the contract with america speaks for itself. the clear difference. and i want to be clear. mitt romney is a terrific

person. we're very fond. i think as he good manager. >> can he beat barack obama? >> i think he can probably beat barack obama. i think both of us can beat barack obama. the question is, who do you want? >> romney or gingrich? >> i would say newt more than romney. how do we guide the conservative base? do we guide it so much that it makes it more difficult for newt? at the end of the day we would like to see romney spend more time in south carolina. if you were to hold the election now, i think we would see these two at the top of the ticket. >> 54 days to the south carolina primary. thanks for your time to be. when we come back, black friday and cyber monday add up to a happy holiday season start for the nation's retailers. [ male announcer ] if you're giving an amazing gift, shouldn't it be given in an amazing way? ♪

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we get back to our news story. an atlantic business woman claiming she had a 13-year affair with herman cain. her attorney joins us on the telephone now. mr. edward buckley. let me ask you quite simply this question first. why did ginger white decide to go public with this allegation? >> mr. king, there were a number of media, news media, and i

suppose information media who were calling miss white and contacting her and asking her to tell her story and posing questions to her, and she decided to, rather than have other people characterize or mischaract mischaracterize what happened, that she would take the opportunity to go ahead and set the record straight. hopefully be done with it though that doesn't appear to be the case. >> comes at a sensitive time. i'm sorry for interrupting you. it's a sensitive moment in the campaign and some will suggest, especially mr. cain's support letters suggest, she must have more political motive or some financial motive. can you assure us that neither of those is true? >> i don't think either of those

is true and there certainly has been no discussion of that, and i candidly think it is not in her financial interests to do this. i'm concerned about whether or not she'll be able to keep her job. >> mr. cain told my colleague wolf blitzer, he thought of this woman as a friend. what was the night of the relationship? >> well, mr. king, i don't know that since i wasn't there, it's appropriate for me to characterize their relationship. i'm sure you've seen the broadcasts that were on the news earlier today. and i think that's probably, certainly the characterization that ginger has made. and i imagine that some of that was friendship, certainly. >> i just want to come back to where we started. >> you say news media and information media. were these people in my business

who had heard rumors about her or the like who came and inquired with her or were they inquiring from other campaigns? >> there were people in various news outlets in your business, yes, sir, who started calling her last week and she would get sometimes eight calls today from one media outlet. and became concerned about what she should do. so this is what she did. >> edward buckley is the attorney for the atlanta business woman. thank you very much. up next, black friday and cyber monday. are they enough to turn the economy around? or at least make you more optimistic heading into the holiday. congratulations.

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tonight's number, $1.2 billion. but we concede it is only a guess. $1.2 billion is how much the experts predict americans will spend online. cyber monday. the high-tech follow-up to black friday. the start of the christmas and holiday shopping season. $1.2 billion would be a cyber monday record. but it's just a drop in the bucket compared to the floorly $52.5 billion u.s. consumers spent from thursday to sunday this year. despite the sluggish economy, that's a record as well.

but economists caution a big start doesn't always guarantee a robust holiday season. and they're afraid that maybe the case this year. erin burnett "outfront" is coming up at the top of the hour. she is here to give us her take of the start of the holiday season. with all these bargains, everybody gets in early, and pull back. the markets sure liked it today. >> the market sure did. nearly 300 points higher and that was the reason. there's been so much doom and gloom. and a lot of the punditry is saying we'll have a double dip recession. even though a lot of the business executives around the country did not see it coming, it still surprised the markets when we saw this. when you give the numbers for what we saw over the week, the $52 billion, it is 16% higher than a year ago. a big jump. the big question to your point will be whether a lot of that was just people who said, hey, look. things are cheap. things are on sale. i get it. i'll front load my spending. the overall might not be as strong. it was nearly four 00 on average

spent this weekend which is a big total. it could show more strength than people think and on the same day we found out that debt in america, the average has dropped a little bit which is another good sign. that all contributed to a positive day. >> a positive day there. and i don't know what to call this. a mixed result. the fitch, the bond rating agency, the credit rating agency says it will keep the united states credit rating at aaa but it revised its downlook to negative suggesting over the course of the next year or tworg it does expected the u.s. outlook to go down. and maybe we would get a downgrade. how will that factor in? >> it is important. we were expecting this. there are three major credit ratings agencies. standard and pours. moody's which isn't going to do so. and fitch, the third one. they came out and downgraded the outlook. not yet the rating. that you they said there is a more than 50% chance they will cut the rating. the estimates even in the middle term scenario, i'm looking at it

now. show that we'll be spending 20% of the tax revenue. 20% on interest expense on our debt alone. within the next eight years. so it's a pretty grim forecast. and obviously, the combination of economic growth which would do a whole lot to illuminate borrowing, combined with serious cuts in our debt itself. whether that comes through spending or tax revenues will be a big part of it. that's what they're saying. 20% of our tax dollars. one in five, going to go to paying interest. that's pretty grim. >> that is pretty grim. we'll see you in a few minutes. >> sorry to end on that note. we'll try to be more optimistic. >> it is a little grimed up. i'll be a little optimistic. i had lunch with two who said they're more optimistic this holiday scenic than last holiday season. when we come back, egyptians get to the polls. we're america's natural gas

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persistent fever, bruising, bleeding, or paleness. get back to the things that matter most. good job girls. ask your rheumatologist if enbrel is right for you. across the middle east today, a remarkable contrast. after casting off a dictator, egyptians today voted in the country's first free elections in a generation. contrast these hopeful images with the latest pictures out of syria. the regime of assad organized a rally.

let's get some perspective from fareed zakaria from new york. fareed, let's begin in egypt. you were at the beginning of this transition. what does it mean to have this country that has the educational, intellectual cradle of the arab world having this historic vote? >> it is incredibly important. remember these are the third elections that have taken place. you had them in tune tunisia, morocco and now egypt. egypt is the heart of the arab world as you described. you go anywhere in the arab world, the songs they sing are egyptian songs. the sit-coms they watch are egyptian. the movies they see are egyptian movies. and the political tlaends come to take over the arab world are the egyptian. so that even if you think about the two great political tlaends have come out of the arab world in the last 40 years have been arab nationalism, anise lammic fundamentalism. both started in egypt. so it's not too much to say that

if egypt is able to successfully navigate its democratic experience, this too could be a political trend that will courses through the arab world. and i spoke just moments ago to one of the leaders of the muslim brotherhood in egypt. he says the united states should not worry, that the united states is should celebrate this democracy. egypt has been so important to u.s. relations in the region. "uss policy in the region. should the u.s. administration, this one and the next one, be at all worried? >> yes, it should be worried. i think that the gentleman from the muslim brotherhood would not be honest if he didn't admit a lot of egyptians are worried. a lot of egyptians i talk to from all walks of life are worried about the muslim brotherhood. it doesn't mean they will rel necessarily bad or evil or that they will pose problems force egypt's democratic experience. but they will to do tend to send some mixed signals and it is very important for them in the next year or two to realize that

they really are on trial here in a way that is much larger than about themselves. so, we should be worried, but we shouldn't jump to conclusions. this is a group that has denounced violence for 30 years now. it has very actively participated in the whatever democratic processes were there. it has worked with other parties. so there are good signs, but you know, we have to make sure that this is a party that will respect minority rights, respect the religious rights of others, respect in particular the rights of coptic christians who make up 10% of the population and the proof will be in their actions, not just in them telling you that we shouldn't worry. >> and another institution we're watching is the egyptian military which of course has seen tens of thousands of protesters back nook tahrir square protesting what they believe is foot dragging by the military, what they believe is a heavy hand still. violence committed by the

military regime. is the military regime ready to step back? it was prominent under is the mubarak dictatorship. is it ready to yield power to a new civilian government. >> i hope it is. if it isn't, this will be a messy situation. i think the egyptian military thought they could reshuffle the deck and get rid of plu bar rec but retain all their extraordinary powers and privileges. i think most egyptians is understand that is dictatorship under a different name. it seems egypt has two choices. the military faces these choices. it can either go down the path that turkey has gone down over the last 20 years, which is one in which there has been incre e increasing democratsization of the society and government and that hayes meant civilian control of the military. the civilians are ultimately in charge in turkey. or it can become pakistan, a country in which the military really runs everything, the

civilian government is dysfunctional. the whole place is always in danger of teetering on the brink of a certain kind of collapse, and you can see turkey as a successful functioning modern state becoming an emerging market giant and pakistan as a basket case economy. i hope the egyptian military understands by clinging on to their own little powers and privileges, they're risking the success of this extraordinary little hopeful situation for egypt, >> and as we watch egypt and we have some hope that it will, as you put it, follow the path of turkey, not pakistan, we also see quite a contrast in the syria, the arab league announcing new sanctions trying to get the regime of bashar al assad to stop the crack downable to institute some democratic reforms. the regime is pushing back. listen to syria's foreign minister essentially telling the arab league to go away. >> translator: i think you can undermine the sirities reem, you

are deluded. >> the regime pushing back against the arab league. is there a live i can't believe-like solutiontologist syria led by the arab league or do we just watch in one play out? >> i have for a long time thought that the syrians would managing to cling to power because they are being so brutal in the way that they are handling things. they're being very tough on their people. they're slaughtering them in the streets. and one of the things we've seen through history is if a government is willing to be really brutal, really open machine gun fire on men, women and children, crowds tend to disperse. that has been the key to their success so far, nothing other than sheer brutality and force. but i think that they are running out of money, more than anything else what is apparent is that the syrian regime is running out of money. they face a very fragmented opposition. it is not the way it was in

libya, geographically concentrated. libya had the advantage that there were two halves of the country and the rebels were able to take control of ben gaz had i and turn that into a base and nato provided air cover. none of that applies in syria. the opposition is fragmented but but the government doesn't have oil money. it doesn't vnl as far as one can tell other than what the iranians give it and world trade. if they will run out of money this minority regime will not be able to bribe enough generals, enough colonels, and army officers to continue to shoot its own people. i don't think it's going to happen in the next few weeks. but the more i look at it, the more i get the sense, this is a regime where the money is running out. and that means that at the end of the day, its ability as a minority regime, the aloe whites are 10% of syria, for this minority to stay in power, they