still am doing will shine a light and give them hope at some point. tonight of two othe league's biggest superstars are here to discuss. shaquille o'neal and his extraordinary 19 year career. >> 19 years, baby. and the player so good he could only be called magic. magic johnson on the game he loves and the cause closest to his heart. ♪ girls want to have fun where is she now, the one and only cyndi lauper. she still wants to have fun. >> good times, bad times and the times you don't talk about. >> this is piers morgan tonight. ♪

>> one of my favorite pop videos ever. cyndi lauper bursting on the scene in the mid '80s with a wildly successful album. she's so unusual. amazing four top five singles including girls just want to have fun. welcome. >> thank you. >> you were part of my youth. but we have sort of grown up together. when you were having fun, i wanted to have fun with you. >> i was having fun. i was laughing. i had a great time. it was captain lou made it so much fun. he was very -- he was just a funny fellow. >> so it was a time in the '80s you were really at the vanguard of pop video with mtv and everything else. what told you this is the way to go? this is the future? >> i think all of us at the time when video happened, you know, i

view what i do as a performance art. i think it is the same for a lot of artists of my time and when you saw a video, you knew we would never listen, just listen to music again. we would always see it. and for me, i spent my whole life one foot in art and one foot in music. so, this was a great, you know, a great opportunity for me. >> the '80s, were they good fun for you as i imagined they had to be? >> you know, when i went to london for the first time. >> you were huge in london. >> it was so much fun. because i had never been to london and i didn't know anything, you know. i turned on the tv and there was a program with, you know, two people walking cows. and it seemed like they had

backyards and they were just walking the cows and i thought, oh, my god. these english people are so funny. it's just like monty python. you know what i mean? so i thought everything was hilarious. >> we are nutty like that. >> oh, yeah. >> one of your best friends is sharon osbourne who is on america's got talent with me. she has told me stories. >> she is awesome. >> i hope all the rumors are true. >> which are. >> you being naughty in your time. >> we had a couple of laughs. >> when you say girls just want to have fun. what kind of fun did you have in mind and how much of it did you help yourself to? >> when i sang that song, i saw it as an opportunity to reach out to all young women and girls of every color and make a song about entitlement for women. in humor, with humor and capture

the people's imagination and color, capture the people's imagination and present an image of women that wasn't what was out there, but more like the people that i knew, the creative types, and offer young women of all races an opportunity to see themselves in a different light and have a song about entitlement that everyone is entitled to have a joyful experience. to me, this song with all the humor, was one of the most revolutionary things that i could have done and i knew that when i asked my mother to be in the video with me because it wasn't popular to be friendly with your mom and the truth is if you don't know where you came from, you don't know where you are going and that's how they don't kerr. they take away your history. you can never lose your history. once you lose your history you

lose your sense of health l self and where you came from and you need to know that. >> your parents divorced when you were 5 and brought up in queens not an easy place to dproe up. >> it was ozone park. are you kidding? >> your mom brings you up and your two siblings. she's a working, single parent really and you are catholics, i think, the family. >> recovering. >> recovering catholics. what is that? does that mean you are engulfed with guilt. >> hell -- heck, no. i was thrown out of two grade school catholics. >> so was my grandmother. >> i'm not old enough to be your grandmother, but i thought, you know, there was one time i was actually just praying to leave that place and then i got expelled and i thought, there is a god god.

>> what did you do to get expelled. >> oh, you don't -- >> no, i do want to know. >> i decided to -- i was talking to a nun, and in those days the poor things, they, you know -- the men had the breezy clothing and the women had the cardboard like this, and, you know. and that always struck me. i love the black and white because it is very french, very stylish. but i thought, you know, the cardboard thing. i asked her if she went to the beach ever. and she said we have a private beach and i said you go in the water and she said yes. and i said but don't the cardboard get wet and she got a little upset and then there was one girl, she was sisters with this other girl, the two sisters were opposite. one of them, carmen, she had curly, she curled her bangs and everything was perfect an she had the peter pan collar.

and the other one, rose etta, she had a hair wild. her cheeks were rosy. she rolled up her skirt a little and tied her shirt and to me she looked like an italian beauty and i always admired her and she came up to me after i said that and she said, now ask her about menstruating. so i did and they got so mad that they expelled me. and i felt bad but in a way, i wanted -- i loved this girl. >> why did you get expelled again. >> no, the first time they asked -- this is number two. >> this is number two. >> what was number one? >> nothing really. my mom had gotten divorced and we were in catholic school and there was this priest father cunningham and i really liked him and he would walk up and down next to my third grade

class. and i would always try to catch up to him and i would say good morning, father cunningham and he would say good morning sylvia and i would say cynthia and i said fine, i don't care after a while. then i went to confession, you know, to him because he was my friend. he started yelling and saying my mother was going to go to hell because i didn't go to mass. i said to him in the confessional. i said what do you know about my mother. you don't know anything about my mother. she is a good woman. she works hard and takes care of her kids and she loves us and don't tell me she is going to hell. after that the church contacted my mother, and they said, listen, i think maybe this kind of relationship is not happening. >> i admire the first one. i think that is perfectly acceptable. the second one was a little naughty. >> they were nasty sometimes. they would hit us and stuff and we'd tell our parent and the

parents would come and they would tell the parents we were lying. who's your mother going to believe? she brought you to the convent school so you would go to heaven because she obviously believed she was going to hell. i don't know. >> what did your mother make of your career as it unfolded. >> the first time she said, you know, cyn, i was always singing the nuns told her i should sing opera and should be trained. we didn't have money so she was ready to look for better parents and i said, look, ma, i don't think we should go that route. i think we should stick together and hey, you know, it's not important to me. you know. i'm going to be who i am going to be any way. i knew that. i thought at first i was very -- i was different. sharon told you. everything i said and did and i tried so hard to fit in. i think it is not worth it.

it is not worth trying to fit in. i think you are different from the inside out. or outside in, depending how you feel that day. >> i totally agree. let's take a break and come back and talk about other people who are like that these days. lady gaga, who i think got their inspiration from you, madam cyn. >> i got my inspiration from deborah harry. >> exactly. >> or big mama thornton. check her outfits out? >> hold that thought. after the break tell me about big mama thornton. who i have never heard about. ♪ the employee of the month is... spark card from capital one. spark cash gives me the most rewards of any small business credit card. it's hard for my crew to keep up with 2% cash back on every purchase, every day.

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♪ ♪ time after time if you fall i will catch you i'll be waiting ♪ time after time ♪ if you are lost you can look and

you will find me ♪ ♪ time after time >> with "time after time" another classic. these are part of my life. you had an affect on me, cyndi lauper. [ laughter ] do you like that? do you like the fact that a lot of people through the '80ed and '90s they were in their teens or whatever and they just loved the kind of spirit that came with your, the music, the videos, the whole thing. we all wanted to be in cyndi lauper's gang. >> we did have a gang. >> some people like to go the lady gaga route. i'm a cyndi lauper man myself. >> i think she is fantastic. >> i think she is great but it is not something she does that you haven't already done. >> from the fashion to the videos you were there first. >> but everybody was -- look, debra harry was there first and big mama thornton.

now big mama thornton and maraini was known as the gold chained woman. >> are you a gaga fan? >> yeah. i like -- there's some stuff i really like and i saw her do this thing when we were doing the viva glam campaign where she did like a george see gull sculpture. she looked like a george seagull structure and i thought she looked like the bus driver but she didn't. she had a motorcycle cap and it was painted and that part of it, i just loved. i always view what we do as performance art. whether it is gaga or nicki minaj or little katy perry or me or madonna or annie lennox or debra harry. it is performance art.

>> it is part of the ability to take risks and occasionally fail. is that part of being a performance artist? i have watched gaga and sometimes i love what she does. other times i think this is completely crackers and i don't get it. but i like the fact she is constantly trying new things. >> you have to try. what are you going to do? never grow? the younger artists look to the older artists just like i do. but you also look to the younger art itselves. there's new music a happening all the time. there is old music to still cover. there is older artists making new music. music is a great medium. and the great thing about the fact that video happened and the visual happened and there's tv is that we now, hear and see it. it is now -- it is a moving art form. i think -- i think that is

fantastic because i feel like i was born in the right time for it because i love art. i love music. i research everything i do. i don't just show up. maybe i'm not like as a gifted singer as most because i don't -- i can't like just walk in and sing on top of a band because if i hear something that disturbs me i can't think. >> you have got one of the most distinctive voices that modern music has ever heard. you could not be anywhere in the world and when one of your records comes on not know instinctively it is you and there are not many singers like that. >> i arranged the music around my voice. >> it is a great voice. it is like a dark side of the queens voice. >> i don't know, where is that. >> i don't know. some dark street in queens.

>> really? >> because we grew up in mother, daughter, sister, brother house like that had shingles the color of good and plenty candy. and i always wanted to eat it but now i know that what made that color was as be toes. >> when you go back to queens. >> yeah. >> you must be a hero win there. that voice has put queens on the global map. >> i don't know, you think? >> i think so. >> i always felt embarrassed. i tried to learn how to talk and everybody's tried to help me. >> why would you want to change it? >> because sometimes it sounds like i could hear the clothesline, the sheets being pulled from the clotheslines. because that's what it sounds like to me. i don't know. i have tried, though. i have tried. they say, you need to relax your mouth and speak softly. who the heck -- who is going to

be -- >> no one wants to hear you talk any other way than this. >> i don't talk like that. >> yes, you do. let's talk politics. you are a little fire brand and i bet you are about politics. the current debate is president obama, should he get another go or has he basically blown it? has all of the hope that he came in to power with evaporated? >> may i? i googled it. it is like, listen, i sell music, right but i try to make it real so that i can actually really help people and make them feel better. but, you know, you watch the advertisement and you listen to a speech where the way they talk, here's some fact. when clinton left we were $127 billion surplus. okay. when bush left, we were $1.2

trillion in debt. okay. now, that's a lot of money that got spent and we -- the republicans, pardon me, were in charge. so now i'm supposed to think, and of course it is typical, blame the black guy. get the black guy in, in the worst condition ever and blame him. i'm sorry. he is half white hon i'm a woman and i know from day one it dunn matter what color you are, they blame the woman. it is the way society is. i think he is trying really hard. what is important that i see in all of the political nonsense is nonsense. it is all who's vying i'm going to have this. it is like why don't you grow up? it is our country. you are sitting there going oh, look at all the wall street

protesters. oh, are you kidding? it is people. it's americans who want to go back to america. they don't want to be hoodwink ed anymore. i don't want to be hoodwinked. how about i'm supposed to believe in your religion, no thank you. you don't want to believe in mind. i don't want to believe in yours. that's fwhot why we live in this country. separation of church and state. you know. i don't want to know anything else. i'm not going to tell you to believe, don't you dare tell me what to believe. that's why i live here and thank god i was born here. >> you have done an amazing thing for almost every minority group in this country. >> do you know that this guy i'm working with who spear heads we did the give a damn campaign together and we did research and what came back is disturbing that most of the homeless people in this country are kids, and up to 20 to 40% of those people are

lgbt kids which means these gay kids, their parents are kicking them out of the house. now, when does it come to light that your dogma is more important than your kid? you can't throw people away and not the little ones, not the kids. the kids are our future. >> i'm with you. >> it doesn't matter. >> i'm with you. tell me quickly about your own son. he's 14 years old. >> he doesn't like me talking about him. >> you have done amazingly despite your bad girl reputation you have been a do midwesty indicated loving, loyal wife of 20 years, mother for 14. -- for a naughty catholic girl. >> look at how cute he is, my husband. >> what is your secret to a lasting marriage given you are a huge star and normally that means you have had about 30 marnls in this country?

>> i got married late. you see a lot of people and there's a lot of different people. you know, you have your rocky times and you have your good times. i have a friend who was married 35 years and he said, yes, you have your good times, the bad times and the times you don't talk about. but, you know, that's how it is. it is not always fabulous. i think at one point i said, we were coming to bouts and as i said, well, i'm going to live here and i'm trying to figure out my schedule and i realized that i was looking at my schedule and really trying to schedule most of my time with them. and i love them. i don't think anything else is better than that. nothing is better than family. i always wanted a real life.

i didn't want a fake life. i want a real life. i want to write about real things. i want to live. i sound like that susan heyward movie. i want to be live. >> i want to the live and i want to live the sin di lauper way. >> i don't know. >> in all of its glory. it is a pleasure. and you have a new dvd coming out. to memphis with love. it is a blues album. >> and look up big mama thornton because he is a blues artist and all of this stuff, the masters still play. >> it's been a joy to talk to you. thank you so much. real pleasure. [ female announcer ] lactaid milk is easy to digest.

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you did it. 19 years, baby. i want to thank you very much. that's why i'm telling you first i'm about to retire. love you. talked to you soon. >> that was shaquille o'neal's retirement announcement. via video. an nba legend. star for 19 years. pretty hard to imagine he won't be playing this year at all. now he's an author. the new book "shaq uncut." my story. he joins me now. a lot of this, shaq, the inside fly leaf, with all the names you have attracted over the years, super man, diesel, the big aristotle, the big daddy, the real deal, the big shamrock and shaq. i like the shaqtus but which one

do you like? >> i have a new name that you just gave me. >> which one? >> the big duke. >> in england you would be the big duke or the very big duke. >> that's right. >> how does it feel? come on, you're not playing basketball. >> it feels good. i've been playing 19 years, accomplished a lot. would have loved to accomplish more. but there comes a time in life whether you have to do something else. >> did it feel right, the moment to leave? i know it wasn't the perfect scripted ending, but did you feel inside you it was the time to go on? >> it felt right. i left on sort of a sour note. i tore my achilles in half basically, and rehab for that would have been a year and a half. so you know, at the age of 40, trying to come back and play at a high level probably would have been, you know -- i would have had very, very low chances of doing that. i just decided to give it up after 19 great years. >> taking up golf yet? >> no, not at all. >> that's the natural thing i would have thought for you,

shaq. >> i live on a golf course, too, but i haven't played in a while. >> i should imagine you could hit it a long way. get a big bertha out and boom. tell me about the nba strike because for somebody who is not an american watching this great american sport on strike because a bunch of multimillionaires were having an argument with another bunch of multimillionaires over the odd million here or there, it seemed pretty selfish in the middle of a financial crisis. with 10% of people in this country unemployed, i was like, what are they up to, these guys? >> you used the wrong choice of words. the strike is when the workers say we're not being treated fairly and we want to do something else. the lockout is when the owners say we don't like our deal. in this case, it was a lockout. and both sides made interesting points, but president obama said it the best that if millionaires and billionaires can't come to some sort of a deal and regular people lose their jobs, it will be very, very unfortunate.

but they finally got it done. derek fisher did a great job, david stern did a great job. the first game will be on christmas day. >> it will be fun. >> yes, it will be fun. >> what do you think of obama? >> he's the president, and i come from a military background. i'm all about respect. he does a hard job. i wouldn't want that job personally. but you know, i have to show the man a lot of respect because he's the president of the united states. >> i've asked a few guests this. and i'm intrigued by your answer. do you think that having the first african-american president has made america more or less racist? >> i would say less. i mean, dr. martin luther king had this dream and this dream has finally come true. it's a hard job. there's a lot of people in the world, you can't please everybody. but i think he's doing a fabulous job. the world is in a little bit of turmoil right now. the economy's down. but he's going to pick it back up. he is going to pick it back up. and he's going to win this

election. i believe. >> do you? >> i do. >> you've made a lot of money out of basketball, out of sport. your e a great entrepreneur. you've made hundreds of millions of dollars. what's gone wrong with the american business model? you worked your way up from nothing to be what you are. what has happened to stop that kind of thing happening? >> i'm not sure. you know, for me there's really two type of business models. people like steve jobs and guys who build their company up from scratch. to me, they are the real businessmen. i came into the business. and your next guy that's coming out here, magic johnson, was the one who taught me how to be a businessman. he was the one -- >> how to expand beyond the sport? >> yes, yes. he told me it's okay to be famous and okay to be the man and all that. but you want to start owning things. so my view of how to be a businessman is very different because i really consider myself a lucky businessman. >> let's take a little break and come back and talk about your early days. because a fascinating story of how you ever got to be a

basketball star and also whether you're going to be sending kobe a christmas card now that it's all over. >> yes. i habe a cohd.

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back with my special guest shaquille o'neal. shaq, it's a fascinating book in many ways. one thing that's interesting to me is the upbringing you had, pretty tough. you know, your father wasn't around. you had this tough step-father who i think you have great respect for. but your mother was really the driving force, wasn't she, for allowing you to live the dream that you have lived. >> my mother was the driving force. she taught me how to believe and how to dream. something i call dream for attraction, sort of like the laws off -- laws of attraction. whatever you think about will come true. my father was very hard. he was an army guy, career army guy. and you know, every spanking i got was deserved. you know, i was a high level juvenile delinquent. if it wasn't for him and his tough love, i could have either went left or either went right. so i owe everything that i am today because of my parents.

>> what do you make of these scandals at first penn state, now syracuse with these young kids -- you had been in that position. you had been a young college basketball player and stuff. it's pretty awful, isn't it, what's going on? >> it's very awful. my heart goes out to the victims' families. something that was, you know, very, very awful and shouldn't have happened. >> let's turn to your mate, kobe bryant. i used to love the feud because, a, it made your team almost unbeatable when you were together. and b, you sort of need someone like that to get up in the morning. you want to be better than that. unless i'm mistaken, it wasn't that you hated him, you both wanted to be top dog. >> i'm glad you understood that. but hersey and blanchard said that leadership styles vary when you're dealing with task or relationships. as a leader i was focused on the task. like you said, we did certain things, we said certain things that made everything excited. like you said, also made us

unbeatable. i respect the guy, you know. he's the top laker now. and you know, he's a great player. but when ways in charge, when i was leading, i was always worried about the task and the task was completed three out of four championships, that's it. >> who was the best player you've ever seen? >> i have to go with michael jordan. but sometimes that's an unfair question. because the next guy coming in here, magic johnson, he was a great one, too. so was larry bird, kareem, bill russell, wilt chamberlain. >> very important people that said you were the most dominant player. the key thing, physically imposing, dominant. there's never been a player like you. lebron james, the most dominating force to ever play the game. >> my parents always taught me to make people remember your name and be different. i'm not the most skilled guy, i'm not the best shooter, but i wanted people to remember me. so i just used to impose my will, impose my force and that camera guy right there used to

be under the basket. >> really? >> yeah, that man right there. >> we have all the best quality people here, shaq. >> that's right. >> what i wonder about you is do you ever go out and people pick a fight with you? >> no. >> i couldn't imagine it ever happening although some kind of weird suicide mission. >> that's because people know that i'm very likable and i'm a funny guy. i can take a joke. >> more to do with the fact that you're seven foot tall and could pummel them to pieces? >> a little bit. people seeing me on tv and from seeing me on tout, they know i'm a funny, likable guy. you say a crazy joke with me, i'm going to say something back both laugh and take a picture and move on. >> a fascinating book, amazing story with the exception of your births and kids and marriage and so on, what is the one moment you'd relive again, the greatest moment? >> all of it. >> give me one. i've got five minutes i can replay. >> i'm very blessed to have two loving, caring parents.

i always tell people if i had it to do over again, i would do it exactly the same way. because my father gave me the ability to learn how to think, to learn how to program, to learn how to navigate. so i would do it all the same way. i had a great childhood. i was able to just sit back and dream and i met great people like magic johnson and bill russell or played in the best cities and led parades and get to meet a lot of people. i watch you all the time. so because of how my parents raised me, i'm up here now to be able to talk to a legend such as yourself. >> i couldn't have put it better myself, shaq. >> that's right. >> thank you very much. you're slightly higher up the legend ladder than me. but it's been a real pleasure. a great book. you have to read this. it's a really inspiring tale. >> all right. it's getting better, my accent. >> it is better. you're getting to be like a cockney, a cockney duke. another legend after the break. magic johnson. another legend coming up after

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in light of having a child that needs you every moment. i wouldn't trade him for the world. who matters most to you says the most about you. massmutual is owned by our policyholders so they matter most to us. if you're caring for a child with special needs, our innovative special care program offers strategies that can help. because of the hiv virus that i have attained, i will have to retire from the lakers today. i just want to say that i'm

going to miss playing, and i will now become a spokesman for the hiv virus. >> that was the moment in 1991 that magic johnson the spotlight on the scourge of this era, hiv and aids. since then he's become the poster boy on how to live with that disease and how to thrive. joining me now is earvin magic johnson. >> thank you for having me. >> 20 years ago you made that incredible press conference. i remember watching it live like many millions around the country being completely shocked because at the time there was this great stigma about hiv and aids. there was this kind of terrible fatalistic sense that you only had a few months or even a year to live. here you are, you're 20 years later. you look supremely fit and healthy. how do you feel about still being around? >> well, first of all, i've been blessed. god blessed me. the medicine's done its part.

my support system, my wife, my kids, they've all helped me to be here 20 years later. but when you think about 20 years ago, people thought it was a death sentence. and i've done everything i was supposed to do to be here 20 years later. then i think early detection saved my life as well. we found out early. i got on the meds right away. i had great doctors in dr. hull. so it all just came together for me. that's why we urge people all the time to get out and get tested because early detection -- back 20 years ago there was only one drug. now there's over 30 drugs that can take care of you and prolong your life. >> what's the reality of living with hiv. aside from the medications you have to take. how do you keep as healthy as you appear to be? >> you take the drugs twice a day, but i work out every day, besides working out, taking your drugs, i really believe is your

frame of mind. how you deal with it, how you accept it now you have to live with hiv. and a lot of people don't accept it well. so they don't do well. but i think that -- from day one i accepted my new status. i just said, you know what? i can live a long time. dr. hull kept telling me if i do all the right thing i can do, taking my meds. so it definitely changed my mind-set and attitude, but at the same time it didn't change who i was. i love life and i love living. i'm going to keep my smile on my face and that's what carried me through. >> to world aids day. on december 1st. what was the overriding message you'd like to communicate on this particular anniversary. >> i think to continue to help people understand this disease hasn't gone anywhere. then the disease is really affecting those people of color, especially in the african-american community. so it's really affected our community in a big way.

and 20 years ago when i announced everybody ran out and got tested. now i think they're sort of asleep on hiv and aids again, and we got to wake them back up to know that this disease is still deadly. there's no cure out there. so we must get out and get tested, go back for our results and continue to fight discrimination as well because some people who announce they have hiv get discriminated against, and we got to stop that. but the main thing is get the meds in to the people's hands who need those meds. and if they're -- if we can keep it affordable, it's really going to be important. and then the government must continue to dupe their part, too. funding of -- different hiv and aids organizations. >> when i look at you and hear you talk and you seem so vie grant, full of energy, when you see shaq, who just retired, after playing for the entire period since you retired, the

20-year period do you wish noek what you know now, you hadn't retired when you did. do you wish you carried on? >> first of all, dealing with shaq. shaq is so amazing. he's probably, i think the most entertaining, most dominant player we ever had and great for the game. but if i knew what i know today, i probably wouldn't have never retired. and, but at the same time, you know i was uneducated. i didn't know. so i made the right move because i wanted to be here a long time for my wife, cookie, my kids. as well as, just making sure that -- that the virus didn't attack my immune system. because the if i played the 82-game schedule, the doctors felt it would attack my immune system. >> were you more shocked by the people who supported you at the time who you didn't expect to? or were you more disappointed by those you thought would who didn't? >> well i think i was more shocked at -- the people who did

sta port me. because the i think at the end of the day when i wanted to come back to the nba a couple players came out against me that they didn't want to play against me. i think that was the most shocking thing. but people on the streets or people around the country or around the world, i was really shocked that they supported me as much as they did. i was happy, but i think it was just the players who said they didn't want to play against me. >> you mentioned shaq has been, one of the great entertainers, the sport has ever seen. not just basketball. let's have a little break and come back. i want to talk to you about who has been the graptest basketball player. he says michael jordan, see what you think? and include included you. breathe robert, out of your mouth. [ male announcer ] that onion after taste after you again?

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>> that was with you with larry bird. he beat you out for rookie of the year. that must have annoyed you, didn't it? >> i am still mad today. i will be mad at anything that larry wins over me. we have that rivalry. i love larry, though. he's my guy, but we play today i'm going to try to beat him today. if we play 20 years from now. i will try to beat him and he will try to beat me. >> it was interesting to talk to shaq. clearly the rivalry with kobe, i understand that. if you are a professional sportsman you want to be number one and if you are in a team, a small team of people and you're both talented by different sets of fans to be number one in the game there's going to be rivalry, isn't there.

>> no question. when you think of it i had a rivalry with michael jordan and larry bird, doctor j, all the guys that played when i played you want to beat them. they want to beat you. that's what makes the game so wonderful. shaq went on from kobe to win a championship and kobe went on to win a championship. >> who was the best, he says michael jordan. who is the best you have ever seen? >> michael jordan was the best hands down. at the same time bill russell was the greatest winner. shaq is probably the most dominant player. >> is shaq the one you want to least play against i imagine you have shaq bearing down on you and can't be many worse moments in sport. are there? >> he's the one i would love to play with. i would have a lot of assists playing with the big diesel. but shaq, you don't want to play against shaq. not only was he big but he was light on his feet.

and he was probably the best passing big man, him and kareem were the two best passing big men that ever played in the game. >> let's talk about this, i call it a strike. he called it a lockout. whatever it was it was a squabble between a lot of rich people at a time when fans were losing their homes and jobs and so on in the economic crisis. what was your overview of the whole thing. do you thing it was ill-advised that it ever happened at all in the current climate. >> when we look back at it we wish it didn't happen from the owners and players side. it was a stroik that we always could have avoided. but let's look at it like, this we have happy basketball is back on christmas day. we are happy now those that serve the soft drinks and the parking lot attendants and the mom and pop businesses that are surround all the arenas they are happy because the strike hurt their business and the people that hurt in the arenas. >> it was a bit selfish it seemed to me.

i love basketball. >> you are fighting over money. you are fighting over the best deal. and it was but at the same time i am happy it didn't go the whole year. i am happy we got it moved past us, and getting on the basketball and nba basketball. >> what's the one basket that you scored that if i can give you a minute of your life back you would do again. >> 1987 the hook shot versus the celtics. >> had to be. even i know that. i am a cricket fan. >> that one shot will be the best shot ever. >> how often do you think of it? >> all the time. >> every day. >> not every day but all the time. once a month or every two weeks you think about it. i replay the games even now today. i like to watch the games we played because the laker team back then, show time was so dynamic and fast. we played the game so fast. it is beautiful to watch. >> it was a great, great basket