tonight, crime and punishment. the queen of american mystery. patricia cornwell, the story on real-life cases and the death of natalie wood and the courtroom dramas that captivate america, casey anthony, amanda knox, was justice served? i'll ask a man who knows the legal system inside out. another best-selling author, john grisham. >> we have the crime of the century every six months, and so for people like me who enjoy taking the stories and writing about them, the material is endless. >> plus, she was born to make it in hollywood. why aren't you as a product of two superstars just lying on some sun lounger in a bikini spending daddy's money being a brat? >> that's a really good question. i often ask myself that. >> from television stardom to

sharing the screen with the muppets. this is "piers morgan tonight." patricia cornwell is the queen of crime. she sold 100 million books and scared the living daylights out of people. "red mist" and patricia joins me now. this is going to terrify me. i know it is. before i even read it. >> well, i think it will. i won't tell you why. but you'll start looking around your kitchen in various places and thinking, hmm, i doenn't feel so good about certain things. you wait, you'll see. >> where do you get this desire to scare people? >> you know, i don't know. but when i was a little kid, i was always writing stories and illustrating little books that i would create. and the kids loved me to tell stories to them. i mean i was the favorite baby-sitter starting at age 12. i remember one day it was out on a vacant lot with two little boys my neighbors and i started telling a story. i scared them so badly that they started crying and ran home. i realized i had this ability to terrify people. >> did you get some vicarious

thrill out of it. >> no, i felt terrible about it. as a matter of fact, i'm careful as i write these books today. i want to hold people in suspense but i don't want to give them terrible nightmares. but i fear i've failed at my kindness in that department. >> talk to me about the craft of writing a great crime novel. what is it? what are you trying to analyze the best way to do it. you're one of the best people to ask. what is it? >> first of all, you have to have really good characters. if you don't have somebody that you really want to spend time with, it might be -- it's going to be a workman like sort of book. it's not going to be that interesting and passionate. that's why i think the scarpetta series worked so well. people like spending time with this character. but you got to do your homework. you need to go out there, be a good journalist. >> you do. you go and immerse yourselves into these worlds. >> exactly. and it's because i started out in journalism. you know, i went looking for stories. i still go out looking for stories. i go to the morgue, the labs, out with the police, with the military, whatever it is.

>> on this book, you spent time in a female prison in tennessee. and previously you actually witnessed an execution in the preparation for these kind of books. >> well, you know, the execution, i'm happy to say, it wasn't research because i think that really would have been inappropriate. but the victim's family asked me to be a witness to the execution of their daughter's killer in oklahoma. and i really thought about it hard. i wasn't sure i should do it. you know what, i'm going to. they asked me to and i really want to understand this. people are always asking me about the death penalty. there are reverberations of what i witnessed in this book in "red mist" because right when they were about to administer the lethal injection to this inmate ten years ago, all of a sudden all the inmates in the prison started kicking the doors, and it sounded like the gates of hell slamming. it was unearthly in which i have a scene where that happens in this book. and the mother of the girl who had been killed was sitting next to me. and she good this very upset look on her face, and she said to me later that for the first time in all the

years that this man had been on death row for this horrible crime he committed, she actually envisioned him stabbing his daughter repeatedly with every kick of the doors in that prison. and it actually caused her to live something she had avoided living, and there were so many things that went on with that experience that i've never forgotten. i still see it as if it was yesterday. and i saw him die. >> what conclusions did you draw after that about the death penalty? >> very disturbed. i was very disturbed by it. and i conclude a number of things. first of all, it does not deter crime, the death penalty. it just doesn't stop people from doing it. and it's -- these people are on death row for so many years anyway. the family who was left behind in this case who i spent time talking to, it actually -- the violence created more violence in her mind while she was watching it. she actually saw the violation of her daughter because of the violence of the kicking of the doors and watching somebody struggling to breathe and that was the other thing. i wondered -- i hope this guy

isn't feeling this because his eyes were shut and his diaphragm was frantically pumping up and down trying to get air while his face turned blue. i was rather horrified. i said i hope -- how do you know that someone's not feeling themselves asphyxiate when this, you know, when the medicine is administered? the par lit tick, the pro-immediate which paralyzes those muscles so you can't breathe. and the thing that is also controversial about it, the very quick acting anesthetic that is used, it wears off obviously very fast. and if you're not doing this exactly as you should, that may wear off before you're paralyzed and then you can't breathe. >> what's fascinating, you have such an incredible recall of the details. >> i am a journalist. >> is that how you feel? >> i do. that's why i like journalists so much and get in trouble all the time. because i relate to them then i tell them way too much but i am still a journalist. i go out and do my reporting.

i have my little notebooks. i take my notes. and i report on things as if i'm going to write a real story but then i weave it into friction and creates a special brand. if i don't do my homework, i have nothing to say. >> where do you draw the line? >> i draw the line like i was saying a minute ago. like in the instance that if someone said, do you want to watch an execution for research purposes, i would say no. i did not take notes during that or anything. i was there for the family. i've never really written about it either. i wouldn't do -- i wouldn't do anything -- let's say a forensic pathology says take the scalpel, try the "y" incision this time. i would never do it. that's a real person. they don't want a crime writer experimenting on their dead body, nor do their relatives want that. so i have to have certain barriers that i feel i don't go beyond. >> you went through a very, very troubled childhood. in many ways, 5 years old your father left. your mother suffered from terrible depression. >> if you had me for a daughter, you'd be down sometimes too.

>> amazing. you've got humor about it because you and your brother spent time in a foster home and you were sexually molested by a patrolman. all this, you know, any of those things would have been pretty n unsettling for any young child. to have all of that stuff going on, very, very tough for you i would have thought as a young girl. >> you know, but i don't regret any of it. i'm so grateful because i think it helped make me who i am. you know, my father leaving when he did made me want to be a better father than he was meaning i wanted to be strong and self-sufficient and take care of other people if i could later on in life. you know, the abusive situation in the foster home, i think that's why i have a lot of female villians in my books. because this was a woman who was very abusive to me psychologically. somehow these things can make you stronger just like having your first books rejected. that is the best thing that could happen to me because now i'm determined to stay where

i am because i know what it's like not to be there. >> how do you feel about the people that rejected you? >> well, the first three books i wrote they should have rejected, and they were really pretty awful. they were my learning experience. when "postmore tem" was rejected by the six or seven major houses in new york, i didn't understand that but i could understand people understanding the world i was trying to tell them about. and i understood what i was doing was very different. certainly not a woman. i was disappointed. but i've never felt any sort of gloating thing about those people. i don't even know who most of them were. i'm just very grateful that they were wrong. >> take a little break and talk about you have a good connection to billy graham and his family and to the bush family. let's talk about that and about politics and some of the juicy crime stories over the last year. it's been quite a year for crime. >> it has been quite a year for crime. >> hold your thoughts. [ female announcer ] anyone can say their hair color is less damaging.

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back with my guest, patricia cornyn well. talk about your link to billy graham and his family. >> there is a strange link. most people completely misunderstand it. it's really they were my neighbors when i was growing up in this little town much montreat. i didn't know billy. i mean i would see him occasionally when he came into town. he was, of course, the most famous man in the world at that time. but ruth was the one i knew because she was the one who stayed home and, you know, if i was walking to the tennis courts with my brother's ha hand-me-gownss on and my little bag of flat tennis balls, she would stop and give me a ride. i got to know her. she's a very kind, wonderful person. she was my friend. but in terms of the entire context of the grahams and their organization, i had nothing to do with any of that. it was just the woman on the mountain who i would go visit and who helped me with money and college and did all kinds of wonderful things and became a very special friend. so i wrote her biography. and interestingly enough, you mentioned politics a little bit earlier. that segued into my meeting barbara bush because i

interviewed barbara bush when i did the ruth graham biography. and then later she got me involved in her literacy programs when i became a novelist. and so my relationship with the bushes started out completely friendship literacy directed. had nothing to do with politics. a lot of people think i'm some die-hard republican or used to be, but, in fact, some of these early relationships of mine were completely friendship that's had nothing to do with politics. >> and are you a democrat? >> i think i am a democrat now. but i would just be anything where somebody really good wants to run our country, i believe so -- >> cis barack obama that person? >> i think we should give him another chance. how does anybody clean up this mess after three or four years? i'm not any aficionado or expert when it comes to politics at all. i would like to give -- i'd like him to have another chance to finish what he started. this was a terrible legacy. >> lots of big crime stories this year and big trials and so on. what do you make of, let's take one, natalie wood case being re-opened.

if you're a crime writer of your renown, do you read that kind of thing in the paper and get, you know, pretty excited? >> i've not only heard about that but i looked at the autopsy report. i wanted to see for myself. >> did you? >> i read all 20 pages of it. and the lab reports and everything. >> what was your conclusion? >> that it was a really well done autopsy and there is no evidence whatsoever that she was a victim of foul play. she's a classic drowning case. now what led up to that, that's something that investigation has to prove. science and medicine are not going to change that story. even the bruises they made so much out of, they're perfectly consistent with a body that recovered from water. bodies get banged up. they get scraped when they drag them into the boat. it's not pretty. and so in her -- her postmortem artifacts are consistent with her dying very shortly after she went in the water, not having been out there for five hours or something. you have to have some understanding of what these things mean. they're easily misinterpreted. but, you know, i say all the time now that science and medicine don't solve crimes, people do.

and that's a perfect case that's going to be investigation and witness reports that might bring a little more clarity to that very sad night 30 years ago. >> if i'm watching this interview as a woman, i'm thinking patricia cornwell looks bloody good for whatever age you must be. >> i have a drip of formaldehyde every morning before my coffee. don't tell anybody though. >> i wouldn't even know how old you are. >> i'm 55. >> i thought you were going to say. >> listen, you just had jane fonda on and saying the same thing about her. that's your line. i got you all figured out. >> she is 74. >> listen, i'd like to look like that at 34. wow. >> how do you keep in such good looks? >> well, i go to the gym. i do walking and i try to stay fit. i believe alcohol helps preserve you. isn't that true? we put specimens on it. >> we british follow that philosophy. >> i try to take care of myself. and i'm vain so i do whatever it takes. >> do you have crazies coming after you? >> sure, you get some. there are a lot of disturbed people out there.

you know, it's just smart to be vigilant. i can't imagine you don't worry about the same thing. i mean i read your tweets. and i know i thought you were being followed the other day. so i know a lot about you. you better watch out. you better worry about me. i might be a cyberstalker. >> you and i have -- we have a twitter relationship. >> well, you got me in so much trouble because i was going through my tweets. and i saw you say, i don't know why i bother. and i thought, oh, boy, he's having a bad day. poor piers. so i tweeted back and said but everybody loves that you do. and suddenly i had cyber beer bottles being flung at me from the uk. all these enraged soccer fans, i mean football fans. i had no idea what i just walked into. >> if i retweet or reply to somebody well known and they're not expecting what's coming, it can be quite a difficult moment. >> i've never been called such names in my life. i really turned three shades of white. i was horrified. >> i can only apologize. foolishly i deliberately enflame the soccer fans back in britain. >> you do do it deliberately.

i've watched, yes. >> it just amuses me. it's very childish but i enjoy it. patricia, it's been a real pleasure. >> this has been great fun. >> i'm told that angelina jolie might be playing scarpetta. is that true? >> she's attached -- >> how cool is that? i think it's going to be way cool, lots of fun. >> it was a cracking book, "red mist." warmly recommended. it will send chills down your spine. that's what you want to hear. >> absolutely. >> patricia, thank you so much. >> so much fun. thank you. i really appreciate you having me on your show. >> don't go anywhere. you're not allowed to. >> oh, okay. >> i haven't finished yet. >> next up, john grisham, best-selling author, from "the firm." what do you think of the cases that fascinate america? we all have internal plumbing.

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we all know john grisham as an author of legal thrillers like "the firm" and "the pelican brief." he's also in a real-life crusade, one that put him in front of a senate committee this week. he is working the innocence project to save people who are behind bars after being wrongfully convicted. john grisham joins me now. i've been curious about this. i've been an avid reader of your books that got me through many a vacation. did you ever think about that time before you sold a quarter of a of billion

books, before all the movies were made based on the books and now grossed a billion dollars worldwide, you were a humble criminal lawyer. do you ever do that? >> i think about it every day. i still get inspiration from cases i had back then, clients i knew, people i knew back 20, 30 years ago. that's where many of the ideas come from for novels today. so i have never gotten away from those days when i was a young lawyer in the trenches and, you know, fighting to help people who were accused, sometimes falsely accused. and i think that's kind of led to my work with the innocence project even today and tomorrow. >> and what was the moment for you when you thought i'm going to be a writer. i'm going to make money and a career out of this. was there a wake-up moment, a utopia moment where you went, whoa? >> no, it was very gradual. after i had been a lawyer for about five or six year, i started playing around with fiction. i had an idea for a novel, a courtroom drama as seen through the eyes of this young idealistic attorney in a small town in mississippi. it was very autobiographical, and i began writing this book, you know, sort of as a secret hobby. and the success of the writing,

even though it was a five-year process of writing to the two books back to back, the success hit quickly. and i could walk away from the law office. i never once said, okay, i'm tired of being a lawyer. i'm going to be a writer. it just sort of gradually happened until one day when i could walk away. >> well, "the firm" obviously became a fantastic success in terms of the book and movie. let's see a clip from the movie and talk with you about it afterwards. >> let me get this straight. steal files from the firm, turn them over to the fbi, testify against my colleagues, send them to jail. >> they suckered you into this. >> reveal privileged information that violates attorney/client confidence gets me disbarred and then testify in open court against the mafia. let me ask you something, are you out of your [ bleep ] mind? >> tom cruise in "the firm."

i noticed, by the way, that every single lawyer in these movies of your books are incredibly good looking. tom cruise, matt damon, julia roberts, sandra bullock, matthew mcconaughey, susan sarandon, no ugly lawyers. but that's not true in real life, is it? >> it's certainly not true in real life. i have nothing to do with the casting of the movies. in fact, i have nothing to do with the movies, period. especially those early films when i just went to the set one time and said hello and never went back. and i hoped the movies were good. and the movies were good. i mean, i've had nine of my books adapted to film. and almost all were enjoyable. i've been very lucky with hollywood and look forward to more movies being adapted but i don't get involved in that process. i know nothing about making movies. and i stay away from it and hope for the best. >> let's talk about the innocence project because it's been a running theme i felt this year of miscarriages of justice, particularly since the

discovery of things like dna overturning previous convictions and so on. the debate is raging about the death penalty because there are so many people now who are saying hang on a second. you know, if we now have dna evidence, how many people on death row, for example, are actually innocent? what do you make of that debate given the way that the law has changed due to technology in many ways? >> well, if not for dna, there would be no innocence project. there would be no innocence movement. there would be no effort to change laws, to prevent wrongful convictions. dna has made all the difference in the world because of dna you know by clear biological proof that if a person is guilty or innocent. with the innocence project, we're now up to 280 people exonerated by dna. 17 of whom are on death row. and of those 280, at least half were convicted with science that was not really sound in the courtroom.

and that's what we're trying to do is try to work with congress to adopt some type of national standard for forensic science because the forensic science world is not -- is not too well organized and it's not always fair. because there's a lot of bad science that kind of contaminates trials. and because of that, a lot of innocent people get convicted. and they go to prison, and some go to death row. and that's what we're trying to prevent. >> i mean you're from mississippi. they have the death penalty there. would you advocate the end of the death penalty? do you think it's time to move on? >> well, personally, yeah, i'm opposed to the death penalty, very much opposed to it for a lot of reasons, moral reasons but also questions of fairness, how it's implemented. and we have a long, long, sad list of people who -- innocent people who have been convicted and sent to prison with -- because of bad science. and we're trying to clean up that aspect.

there are a lot of reasons for wrongful convictions. and the number one reason is improper eyewitness identification. eyewitness i.d. is famously unreliable. number two is bad forensic science. experts are allowed to testify in trials using methods and theories that have not been proven and are not accurate. false confessions, false testimony from jailhouse snitches. misconduct by police and prosecutors, bad defense lawyers. there's a long list of reasons why wrongful convictions happen and they happen all the time. and what was hard for me to finally believe, piers, years ago, a few years ago is that there are thousands of innocent people in prison, and so that means there are thousands of guilty people who are still out there doing their dirty work. and that's the mission of the

innocence project in new york is to exonerate people who have been wrongfully convicted and also work from a policy angle with congress and state legislatures to prevent future wrongful convictions. >> john, we're going to take a short break. when we come back, i want to talk to you about the high-profile trials we've had this year, casey anthony, the michael jackson trial of conrad murray, amanda knox and so on and get your perspective both from a criminal lawyer point of view and also as a top-selling author about the crime. ♪ [ male announcer ] everyone deserves the gift of a pain free holiday. ♪ this season, discover aleve. all day pain relief with just two pills.

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i checked with all my sources last night at the bureau, langley, the white house, all of them said the brief doesn't exist, never has. you may be the only witness that can ever prove there was a brief. if you disappear, so does justice. >> from the movie version of another grisham blockbuster "the pelican brief." john grisham is back with me now. there have been three trials that i covered a lot this year. i'm curious what your instinctive criminal lawyer verdict would have been based on everything you read about them. one was the infamous casey anthony trial. what did you think of that? >> didn't really follow that closely. i'm really suspicious of trials where the cameras are in the courtroom because it creates this circus around the courtroom that i think really does not

help us pursue justice. as i understand the case and you can't completely avoid the case, if you are he, you know, awake and somewhat literate in this country, the prosecution could not prove the place of death, cause of death, you know, none of the basic things you have to prove. and i think the jury was faced with a very difficult task. but probably made the right decision. because the prosecution has to walk into court and prove certain basic elements much the crime, and if that's not done, then the jury must acquit the accused. so, again, i don't know a lot about it, just based on what i picked up with everybody else and saw on television, that is kind of my shoot from the hip reaction to it. >> well, i totally agree with you about the cameras. because in britain, for example, we don't allow cameras into the courtroom.

and it brings with it that decision i think a much higher level of seriousness to the proceedings. and it makes it much less of a soap opera. i mean, watching that casey anthony thing, i remember seeing footage of people fighting to get ticket s to get into the courtroom. as if they were attending some kind of show business event. i mean that to me is ridiculous. >> it becomes entertainment. and it becomes something other than the pursuit of the truth and of justice, and, you know, i was -- you know, i think it goes back to the o.j. simpson trial. the cameras in the courtroom did so much to sort of pervert the quest for justice and the truth in that case. and i'm very much opposed to cameras in courtrooms. >> on the second trial that attracted lots of attention was the amanda knox case obviously involving a british girl, meredith kitscher w kirch er kio

died and an american girl. my sense after all that is it was extraordinary being in britain and america and seeing how differently the media covered that in both countries. and if it had been the other way around, if it was an american girl killed and a british girl charged with the murder, i think you would have seen the media conference completely reversed. media coverage can have a big effect, i think, on some trials like this. >> piers, it goes beyond -- it is worse than that. it goes beyond that. it so permeates our culture because if, you know, if you look at the duke lacrosse case, we should have learned, we should have reminded ourselves at that time that in this country there is a presumption of innocence. when we see a sensational trial, we just immediately forget about the presumption of innocence. it's difficult for a fair people to get a trial if it's it notorious.

by the time you get to the courtroom -- it's really difficult for a defendant to get a fair trial if it's notorious. by the time you get to the courtroom, you're really fighting an uphill battle to walk into court presumed to be innocent when most people think you're guilty anyway. it's very troubling to see how we handle these cases after, you know, beginning with the arrest and the pretrial motions and the pretrial court hearings and the police leak information to the press. you know, you have this circus ahead of time before you ever get down to the actual trial where the truth and facts are presented, supposedly fairly to the jury. the full-blown giuliani style press conferences just to say hey, look at us. we've got the indictment which is a far away from the trial.

then you've got the defense lawyers on the steps of the courthouse, you know, chasing cameras and spouting all this kind of stuff. and so you get into this media fight long before the trial, and both sides are wrong. it is -- it's very troubling to me as someone who thinks the law still should be fair and you should have a right to a fair trial and someone who enjoys creating these stories and writing about them. so, yeah -- >> the final case, i was just going to put to you is the conrad murray trial, obviously involving the death of michael jackson. do you think the right verdict was reached in that case? >> you know, i hate to pass judgment because, again, i don't know all of the facts, and i didn't follow it that closely. again, when i see -- you know, when the case is coming out of california and you got cameras in the courtroom, i get real

suspicious and turn it off, so i'm not going to pass judgment on it because i don't know much about him. >> go ahead. >> you mention these three cases and i'm constantly asked where do you get the ideas and information for the novels? you just mentioned three that happened this year. we have the crime of the century every six months. and so for people like me who enjoy taking the stories and running behind them, the material is endless. >> terrific writing and, john, more important, i think this is an outstanding project that you're involved with. i feel very strongly about these miscarriages of justice. >> thank you for having me. >> the daughter of hollywood legend. she was born to be a star. rashida jones. and great looking hair.p you should make that eight things. dude, why don't you just use the stuff? [ male announcer ] head & shoulders: seven benefits. every bottle.

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that saves me money. with slate from chase, i'm always in control. financially, anyway. get slate with blueprint and save money. call 855-get-slate today. i'm don lemon live in cnn headquarters. your headlines. at a military hearing today prosecutors called bradley manning a calculating traitor known for his computer expertise and emotional outbursts. a defense attorney also said manning's computer in iraq had an unusual amount of problems. manning is the army private accused of providing secret government documents to wikileaks. the hearing will determine if he'll face a full military trial. i must warn you, you may not want the small children in the room for this very next story. an alleged $2,000 debt is believed to be the motive behind

the brutal killing of an elderly woman in new york city. surveillance video appears to show a man dressed as an exterminator spraying his victim with flammable liquid while she stands inside an elevator. then sets her on fire. more than 500 palestinian prisoners are freed. they filed into the west bank after israel released them. they are the second group released after shalit. he was freed after being held by hamas for five years. rescuers are searching for 49 people missing after an oil rig sank. they're battling high winds and huge waves in the freezing waters. these are file pictures of the rig which went down while being towed in a storm. four bodies have been found and 14 people were rescued. gas prices just keep tumbling. the lundberg survey finds the price of a gallon fell five

cents over the past two weeks. continuing a trend that started in october. the average price of a gallon of regular is now $3.24. the reason for the latest drop, well, crude prices, crude oil prices dropped $7 a barrel over the last two weeks. i'm don lemon. make sure you join me at the top of the hour in the cnn newsroom. in the meanwhile, "piers morgan tonight" continues. passport?

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rashida jones was born to be a star. her father is quincy jones and her mother the actress peggy lipton. she's been in "the social network to her role in "the office." what would compare to her latest role opposite miss piggy. rashida, what a moment. >> what a moment. >> the muppets, miss piggy, dream come true? >> dream come true. i thought about just offing myself right after it happened. because how is it going to get any better than that? >> let's have a look at this. this is the stuff of dreams.

>> who is hosting? did you find a celebrity? >> yeah, i wanted to talk to you about that. you see, because actually i'm kind of a celebrity. >> you? no. kermit, listen, i will not air the show unless you find a real celebrity host. i will rerun "benson" if i have to. >> it's a great movie. >> it is a great movie. >> it's ripping up the box office. >> it is. by the way, it broke my heart to have to tell the muppets that they weren't famous because there's -- >> you told kermit. he is the most famous animal ever created. >> best acting i've ever done in my life. >> you should be an absolute spoiled brat. so what went wrong? >> thank you. >> what went wrong? you're a perfectly nice normal lady. my early experience of you have confirmed this. why aren't you as a product of

two superstars just lying on some sun lounger in a bikini spending daddy's money being a brat? >> that's a really good question. i often ask myself that. no, my parents are -- they're great people and they -- their priorities were very much in check when my sister and i were born. they just wanted to have a normal family and my dad also kind of got more famous as i was a kid. i mean he didn't really become a face, a celebrity until i was about 8 so it wasn't really like, you know, it wasn't a celebrity household. it wasn't -- >> your house must have been like -- i mean like a daily walk of fame and notoriety and legends. >> there was a lot of legendary -- >> you can name names. start name dropping. >> there was -- >> biggest names that walked through the door. >> michael jackson. ray charles. >> didn't you go in a car with michael jackson once? >> yes. >> and spray begun complete

strangers with water pistols. >> yeah. i'm not making any excuses. >> what was he like. >> he was so wonderful. he was a big kid. he really was that. it wasn't -- he was so innocent and just a big kid and to me at that age he just was like me but taller. oo and very much more talented. >> that guy just knew how to do it, didn't he? >> he did, but he also had this thing just bubbling over. he had no choice. i mean when you sound like that and dance like that, what choice do you have? >> is it true that frank sinatra offered to go and smack a few skulls? >> it was a suggestion. it was a suggestion. i went to go see him in vegas when i was 18. my dad was very good friends with him. and we had a hard time, my sister and her boyfriend at the time had a hard time get

getting backstage as one would at a frank sinatra show. when we got back we said we had a hard time. he said do you want me to talk to somebody? we were like, no, because we know what that is. so, no. >> that would have been -- >> i don't know. he definitely was formidable to say the least. >> so you shoot strangers with water, you have frank sinatra and -- >> you make me sound like a weirdo. >> you are a weirdo. this isn't normal. these are the greatest entertainers ever. >> it was all the same to me. it was just a bunch of talented musicians. >> did it make you feel, i want to be part of this? your career root to being a celebrity who is an actress and so on isn't the normal one. you went to harvard. you could have been a lawyer, maybe even a politician. you might still do both those things. we'll talk about that after the break but did you have any kind of gut feeling you wanted to be like them, be a star? >> well, you know, the star part of it was never interesting to me. it was actually kind of scary. and i have to say, you know, i've seen so many people go through the cycle and become famous and not famous anymore

and, you know, want -- have their priorities change and want different things. it was never anything that really interested me. and still it's a by-product. whatever i want to be made, but for me, it was my dad's connection to his music and his love of what he did and how hard he fought to be the kind of musician he was and the kind of person he was simultaneously. that to me was what was interesting, you know. and i thought whatever i can do to find that amount of passion and pursue something like that, i would be so lucky to be able to do that. >> i hear that he carries newspaper clippings of you around wherever he is in the world. >> it so cute. he does. he folds it and puts it in his little pocket. >> that is so sweet. so sweet. he's so cute, my dad. >> i bet he's a great dad. what does he think your biggest talent is? >> that's funny. you know, he still has -- he holds out hopes for me and music. and he knows how much i -- >> both your parents, i've seen them on the records.

they think you're a fantastic singer. never mind the acting. >> yeah, well, it's something that i love to do, but i feel so strongly that i want to be >> i feel so strongly that i want to be so good at it, and i want to know music in and out, and i want to know theory and lock myself in a room for six months and just know -- know music in and out and feel really comfortable with it that i would -- unless i could devote my soul to it, i wouldn't want to do it because i would want to make him proud. >> i bet you do. produced by quincy jones. a home run, isn't it? let's take a break. when we come back, i want to talk about politics with you. because you have flirted with the idea that you may one day make a run or something. i want to find out what. >> oh, boy. okay. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about the personal attention

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for a hot dog cart. my mother said, "well, maybe we ought to buy this hot dog cart and set it up someplace." so my parents went to bank of america. they met with the branch manager and they said, "look, we've got this little hot dog cart, and it's on a really good corner. let's see if we can buy the property." and the branch manager said, "all right, i will take a chance with the two of you." and we've been loyal to bank of america for the last 71 years.

hey. did you maybe tell people that i diagnosed that guy with mumps based on his porn photo? >> i did. i was so proud of you. >> okay. because now i have everyone at city hall sending me pictures of their junk asking me if they have mumps. >> oh, my god. your inbox is literally filled

with penises? >> uh-huh. >> im so sorry. >> oh, look. ed miller from payroll. >> rashida jones on nbc's "parks and recreation." he's a funny guy, rob lowe. i loved interviewing him. >> rolo as i call him. he is so great. i've kind of known him over the years just because we've both been kicking around for a long time. >> he was quite keen to flirt with the idea of maybe becoming a politician. he was serious because i was asking about sam seaborn and west wing and so on. you've done the same. i would love to be a senator you once said or governor or work in the public sector. >> you know, i definitely have an inclination to work in the public sector, and i feel like if you at all have that instinct at some point in your life you should probably do it because i think it can be potentially hellish and i don't think everybody wants to do that. so i feel like if you want to do that, you should probably serve some sort of public office.

>> you also came out with a very unique way of solving the economic crisis. let's take a look at this clip from "funny or die." >> the global financial crisis is affecting all of us. >> the panic on wall street has now reached main street. >> there doesn't seem to be a clear answer. >> and the worst may be yet to come. >> after careful consideration, rashida and i have determined the best course of action. >> puppies! ♪ >> that is funny. >> yeah, it's good. we wanted to do something for the campaign. we were kind of poking a little bit of fun at the black and white seriousness of, you know, actors being like, it's time for change and change is now and here we are. >> it was so, so on the money. >> thanks. >> here's the weird thing about you. so you were very funny. you're very charming. dare i say it, attractive. you've dated some of the hottest guys in the world. and yet currently as i sit here

opposite you, this would excite a lot of men watching this, you are single. what's going on? how did this happen? >> how did this happen? this is a little bit of a choice for me. my career is paramount at the moment. i've had a lot of luck in the past couple of years, and i want to be open to it. and available to it. and my career right now is very time consuming. and i like it that way. it's good. i'm acting and writing and it's taking up a lot of my energy. i'm also, you know -- i'm picky. >> are you? >> yeah. >> what's your perfect man? you must have -- >> it's you. you know it. don't put me on the spot like this. >> i know that. >> don't do that. this is national television. >> this is getting very awkward. move on. chelsea handler did this. it's uncomfortable for me. >> you're blushing. >> it's awkward for me. if you can't have me, and i'm not ruling anything out here. let's not be too hasty. who would the perfect guy be?

>> i guess funny is important. >> is going to make you laugh or laugh at your jokes? >> he doesn't have to laugh at my jokes. he has to make me laugh. >> do you dream wistfully of a fairy tale wedding? when i've interviewed you before you kind of say marriage, you're not that hung up on marriage. >> i'm not incredibly hung up. i've been kind of misrepresented here and there about that, but i just think that marriage, you know, it was -- this is just factual. it was an institution that was created for property and power dynamic and to marry to powerful families and make sure the property was given to the right people. >> you make it sound so cynical. >> it was that and then it became that during the renaissance. i totally believe in romance and love but the actual institution of marriage in this country, more than half of the people get divorced. so something is not working. and i'm not saying it doesn't work for everybody. i love going to weddings and i

totally support my friends that are married. i just don't know if it works altogether across the board. that's all i'm saying. >> what is the great ambition for you now? an oscar? are you seeing yourself up in lights? academy awards? rashida, come on down. >> only if you can say that over the lights, then i'd be interested. >> i'd love to introduce you as the winner of an award. is that the holy grail for you as a performer? >> i've never won anything before as a performer, so that would be really cool. for me, i feel like i just want to keep things interesting. i want to stay curious and i want to keep acting because i love it. but i want to do other things, too. i want to find challenging roles and i want to not be put in a box. >> if i said you were -- i can award rashida a grammy for an album produced by you, quincy jones or an oscar, which would he go for? >> i think he'd goo