the legal am ficat ramification case. also, have you seen these pictures in china. i'm laughing but they're insane. look at this riot in china as it's now out, people going completely nuts. they start throwing eggs at the store because they can't getting a cess to the new iphone. we're going to -- now i guess it's going to be banned. they're not going to be allowed to have that phone. but how do you say get a life? >> i don't know. we have our best people on it. jeff toobin wants to know that. if you guys read this ate yet? "the obamas" written by jody kantor. she writes about the relationship about the president and his wife behind the doors of the white house. mrs. obama not so thrilled with the book. we'll talk about her reaction and talk with the author this morning. stephen cobelbert is exploring possible run for the office. >> i am proud to announce that i am forming an exploratory

committee to lay the groundwork for my possible candidacy for the president of united states of south carolina. >> finally, i'm feeling excited about this. race, we get to weigh in and what it all means for the republicans and that, of course, hear about this? the conductor of the philharmonic, cell phone rings in the middle of a performance and you know what he did? he stops the orchestra. i am cheering for him. we agree with this. i love this man. we're going to talk about that and much, much more as we begin qu "starting point" right now. okay back. we are back once again inside the tick took diner as ashleigh and zoraida told you about. they were stosz tossing to me. making our tour through diners. i'm going to need to run through the gym after this segment. today start with the oatmeal.

i'm having oatmeal. will is having oatmeal. you're having eggs and english muffin. you're having fruit. wow. >> we started the week last week with like piles of deep fried foods. moved into healthier options. this we're going to dig in today because new york city diners are known for the massive cakes and pies. they gave us one. this is a cheesecake strawberry something or another. we're going to cut that up this morning. we might as well go straight for the dessert. the top story we're looking at this morning is what's happening in the state of oklahoma because they are reacting today's to this pardoned story out of mississippi which has become very controversial. in oklahoma they're proposing a new law that would strip the governor there of power to release people. the attorney general is now in mississippi is now threatening a nationwide manhunt because they're trying to track down the killers who have been released.

listen. >> we will catch them. it's just a matter of time. >> do you know where they are? >> no. >> no? >> we know where their family, fwheer contact with their family, local law enforcement. there's a search going on out there for them. we'll lay hands on them at some point. >> that's not exactly heartwarming to think of it that way. let's get to our panel. jeff toobin is back, legal analyst, specialist at cnn. we have will cain with me. i'm slowing down. meyer is a former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney. and joining us new today is you' julie, civic leader in new york city. it's nice to have all of you. the four guys, the killers who have been released. they now wanted to basically have an injunction so they would be returned to prison. the problem is they can't give them the papers to serve them the injunction.

>> they can't find them. >> mississippi has this very odd provision in its constitution which says no pardon can be effective unless 30 days before the application for the pardon notice of the application has been published in the local newspaper. the jackson clarion ledger, the big paper down there, reported today that none of the four murderers who are the focus of this investigation, the people who are -- who had been working there had done the paperwork. >> the release was illegal. >> right. the pardon almost looks certain to be revoked but no one know where's these guys are. >> they can't revoke the pardon until they officially serve them the papers? >> correct. it's not until january 23rd that the court is formally going to hear the issue. so these four people are kind of in this weird legal limbo. they dead receive a pardon. they did get released from custody as a result. but it appears almost certain that that pardon will be

revoked. thinking about it from their perspective, you might want to get in the wind. the you're serving a life sentence, you know your pardon is going to be revoked -- >> for haley barbour who is such a conservative republican, former governor, such a strict constructionist in terms of the constitution, the fact that he actually didn't follow the state constitutional requirement here with the 30-day notice period is ironic. >> it goes back to the whole motivation behind it. >> why, why would haley barbour do this? i can't find a legitimate reason. >> i think it's personal. here's a guy. he lived with these people. they were trustees, which is the term for prisoners who worked with him in the governor's mansion. he seems to have taken a shine to them. this is actually a tradition in mississippi where policer ins work in the governor's mansion. big privilege. he liked them. and i am certain that he did not think that the reaction would be this. >> i think we need to look at

the purpose of the pardon. the purpose of the pardon is to get someone wrongfully committed or mitigating circumstance or whether there was just some other issue such as this person's rehabilitated himself. they've gotten an associate's degree in prison or they've done something beneficial. so this is his motivation behind the party, which he hasn't explained yet. >> one of these guys was turned down for parole just days before he was given the freedom completely. now, here's what the attorney general in mississippi had to say. listen. >> i worked all day yesterday trying to find a method to give the court authority to issue a warrant for their arrest to put out an apb on it. unfortunately at this point we have not found any law to support that. they have a legal document saying they're free to go. >> so he says he would like to be in a position to arrest them but he is not really in that position yet. is there anything indication -- he frames it as a manhunt.

is there any indication that they are there on the lamb versus they just haven't reported to something that they haven't been told? >> there is because when the irch junction was issued right after the pardon was issued, the court said these people who have been have been released need to report every day to the authorities. they're not going to go back to prison. they are to report. they apparently have not been reporting to the authorities. that suggest that they are not -- >> because they're fools. >> pretty clear there's not going to be a pardon under the new governor. >> pardon and clemency is such an important part of our american system. >> he has said something. he released a statement -- >> he's been very quiet in terms of his motivation and constitution of requirement. >> many of these pardons to be quite legitimate, appear to be people who were nonviolent, who had already served their sentences. you make a fair point here. most governors issue too few

part dons. a lot of people are not a threat to anybody. we over-incars rate a lot in this country. but these four seem to be terrible, terrible candidates and that's going to -- as we see it in oklahoma, maybe going to start to destroy the whole system. >> we've got to take a short break. when we come back, later in the next hour, we're going to talk to two women who were released from prison. they were not pardoned. i did their story not too long ago. and in this case, their case was sort of fraught with kind of potential misconduct, very unclear if they were actually guilty of the charges. they would have been good candidates for a pardon. as you can imagine, they are furious. we're going to talk with them straight ahead. first, though, a look at some of the other stories making news this morning. christine romans has those for us. good morning. >> good morning to you. the marine corps this morning has identified two of the four marines captured on video appearing to be urinating on enemy kornss. the identities of those men not being released to the public right now. defense secretary leon panetta

says he's deeply troubled. barbara starr is following the ongoing investigation. good morning, barbara. >> good morning, christine. indeed the marines now tell us that they have interviewed two of the men that they did idea fay. they have spoken to them. they are not in confinement. they've been returned to dut thank you but interviewed by investigators. in in addition, they expect to identify very shortly perhaps as soon as today all of those in the video. marine corps is a small place. people will recognize them in that video. the investigation continues, christine. >> barbara starr at the pentagon. tanks. tensions rise in between the u.s. and iran. "the new york times" reports the obama administration has warned iranian leaders through back channels that blocking access in the persian gulf would trigger a u.s. response. defense secretary leon panetta says that would cross the line. >> we cannot allow them to develop a nuclear weapon. that's a red line. number two, we cannot tolerate

iran blocking the staraits of hormuz, and that's a red line. >> despite the words of warning from the u.s., iran has reportedly agreed to host a team of high-level u.n. nuclear inspectors later this month. in just a few hours joran van der sloot will learn how many years he will spend in a peruvian prison. earlier this week he needed guilty of killing 21-year-old in steffph stephy florez in 2010. van der sloot is still the prime suspect in holloway's death. conservative christian leaders two-day meeting in texas trying to rally behind a gop candidate which who is not mitt romney. next hour, tony perkins, he will be at that meeting. wild weather in north carolina. a tornado that struck the western part of the state, damaged dozens of buildings and left 15 people injured but that state is not the only one

dealing with severe weather. snow pounding the nation's mid section in the first major storm of the winter. nearly a foot of snow fell in the chicago area. about 500 flights at chicago airports canceled. u.s. markets closed higher yesterday. this morning stock futures for the dow, nasdaq, s&p 500, all of them trading lower ahead of the opening bell. this just in, jpmorgan chase says it aerntd a quarterly profit of $3.7 billion, it sees signs of improvement in loan demand and credit quality. first read of how well the wall street banks are doing. the u.s. economy may be healing but the big banks are suffering from exposure to europe ears debt crisis, banking problems and lawsuits stemming from the subprime mortgage crisis. >> thanks, christine. story to tell you about. you guys seen this picture of the absolute chaos as apple released the iphone 4s in china today? they actually had to close the flagship store in beijing after

people went completely insane. look at this. it was -- i don't think we ever use the word riot. but stan was there. running with security guards earlier today. stan, what exactly happened? >> crazy is the word that comes to mind when you look at those images. here's what happened. people spent the night camping out outside the store. jub zero, freezing temperatures. waiting for the store to open at 7:00 a.m. when they could get their hands on the iphone 4s. this was meant to be the official release. the police got concerned about the numbers of and what might happen when the door open. they told the store not to open 3e7 when they that was announced, people started pelting the store with eggs. security from apple came out to move people back. they were physically attacked. they chased the security down to an alley. more punches were thrown at them. police came in and dragged people away from there as well. at the end of the day, apple has

had to suspend the sale of any of these iphone 4s right across china. you can only now buy it online. it's going to stay that way. not just because the stock itself will be running dangerously low, but because the situation itself would be so dangerous they worried about security. soledad? sx >> i'm told that these particular apple stores in china, shanghai and beijing, generate more revenue than any other stores in the world. is that right? >> reporter: absolutely. people here are apple crazy. they are not just want every single latest gadget, they want the latest of the latest. whenever you walk into these stores they are absolutely jam packed. any time of day or not. before this all happened today, people were chanting "we love apple," telling us how much they missed steve jobs and how much they love the apple product. that very quickly turned.

soledad, really interesting here. it's not just about the iphone. what we're getting here is a snapshot of this seeming anger that's bubbling underneath the surface here in china. every now and again it flares. whether it's angry about rising inflation, taxes, unemployment, traffic, pollution. when people get a chance to vent, you often see signs like this. at the end of the day people were saying to us saying this is what happens in china. the police turn on their own people. to the just about the iphone but about something also much, much deeper here. >> it is quite a hot mess. stan grant for us this morning. thank you, stan. nice to talk to you. still to come this morning, we're going to talk about this book called "the obamas." the first lady made it clear that she is not happy. we're going to talk to the saw thor jodi kantor ahead. here's a terrible story. in cincinnati a landlord puts a sign up at her pool whites only

after a teenage girls decides to take a dip in the pool. lives in the housing development. we will find out what happens in that story. very sad, depressing story for me. and stephen colbert injecting life into the presidential race because he is, as he is explo s exploring a bid. unfortunately the law may not be with him on this. we're going to tell you sadly why stephen colbert may not be the next president of the united states. when i grow up, i want to fix up old houses. ♪ [ woman ] when i grow up, i want to take him on his first flight. i want to run a marathon. i'm going to own my own restaurant. when i grow up, i'm going to start a band. [ female announcer ] at aarp we believe you're never done growing. thanks, mom. i just want to get my car back. [ female announcer ] discover what's next in your life. get this free travel bag when you join at aarp.org/jointoday. ♪

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good morning. welcome back. you're watching "starting point" coming to your live from the tick took diner here in lower midtown manhattan. it's a combination of folks who are out of towners and locals who have breakfast here poop we're going to have a chance to chat with them during the show. this morning we're talking about the south carolina primary. looking in that direction because, of course, that's going to happen one week from tomorrow. gop is asking candidates to stop attacking each other and maybe focus on president obama. we're going to get right back to our panel. we added josh who is an editor

at bloomberg business week and also former "times" deputy editing manager. and will cain is with us, selma and julie. so let's begin with this sort of layoff each other thing. you're actually seeing, will, pressure from some donors that they think is just getting so ugly, infighting among the candidates. >> it's funny we've all kind of made nonfy for newt gingrich for speaking weeks about how can you go negative and now he is going negative. the terms negative is over used because what happened in iowa apparently completely ticked off newt gingrich. was an attack on his record. he's voted for this, he stood for this. now it's happening in south carolina. coming from newt, attacking mitt romney on such a personal level. that's going to turn off donors. it's going to turn off people who might endorse you. i think it's going to turn off voters. talking about what he's done with his dog. these comments -- >> it starts -- ad that he speak french. >> h is what i would call circling the drain.

>> reporter: massachusetts monitor mitt romney will say anything to win, anything. and just like john kerry -- he speaks french, too. >> bonjour. >> reporter: but he's still a massachusetts moderate. and a massachusetts moderate the k. n cannot beat barack obama. >> he will do anything to win, including speaking french, if that's what it takes. >> that's newt deng gricgingric way. >> it speaks to the desperation of the gop. the fact that they have to launch these ads attacking each other rather than talking about real solutions. >> oh, julie. >> no t. fact that senate republicans killed obama's jobs bill. we're not really seeing ideas soming out of the gop. >> the personal ads are not a concern. personal ads happens in politics. it's financial. >> it turns people off. >> the reason it's a big deal. the reason why they want to call off the dog and is attacking

romney for is about his experience. basically that's the tenor of the republican party, free enterprise. >> it doesn't make sense. republican party supports freedom. >> it's a little person. >> it's about the noets notion that the tenet of the party itself is under attack which makes it much easier for may, june, and july for obama to say it's not just us. >> laying the foundation. >> the line of argument against mitt romney against bain. newt gingrich, they were populous. they were never principle conservatives. they were simply trying to get your vote. tell you what you want to hear. >> trying to tap into the anger, i think, and the energy that's happened in the country right now where people are hurting. here's what i think would have been helpful. stephen colbert, as you know, has jumped into the race and it's all sort of a joke. i was thinking, would have made the campaign trail so much bet bett better. >> higher in south carolina than jon huntsman. that is a real poll. it again, speaks to the

divisions in the gop primary field. they don't have one candidate people are excited about. >> i think it does. but i think it also speaks to the blandness of the number of the gop primary candidates, that people are not excited about it. we saw turnout lower in iowa and new hampshire. >> it makes the joke funny, roit, is that i've stephen colbert could jump in and people might go, wow, that might be an improvement in some ways. >> compassion here, what would they say -- >> listen to his announcements. >> i am proud to announce that i am forming an exploratory committee to lay the groundwork for my possible candidacy for the president of the united states of south carolina. now, clearly, my fellow south kacarolin carolinacs see meed a a viable alternative. >> i'm not alone. i would vote for him.

injecting a little fun into this race which seems like mitt romney has a serious lead and everybody else is doing this infighting with relatively -- like why is rick perry still in the race? >> did i'm not just say that yesterday? that he needs the come to jesus talk? >> strategic reason, right? >> doing well in the south. his donors are defecting because he's been attacking romney on the bain issue. >> he's not polling well in the south. why is he staying in the south? >> south carolina, it's all about south carolina. >> and florida. >> and florida. >> i think he can do well in south carolina. once he finds out that's untrue, he will be gone. >> they don't run on strategy. they run on motivation. tell of the people around you are saying, we can do this. >> the numbers say different. rick perry -- >> the idea is, you know, it is -- >> you don't live in a bubble when you can turn on the news every morning and see what your numbers are like. >> the presidency is the ultimate brass ring. in the process you always believe in a miracle.

you believe you can be the next guy. >> you should believe in a country more than you believe in a pinkle. if you're a republican you believe in country that fight for this country, donate to your party, put all of these money and resources -- >> why are you advising republican candidates. >> i'll advise any candidate. >> iowa -- >> i'm going to stay? . >> we've got to take a break. i want to tell everybody what's ahead. we're going to talk to jody cap or, author of this new book called "the obamas can." the first lady made it clear she don't like it. also, a new study takes a look at alcohol and your brain. it links brain chemistry and alcohol addiction. that's straight ahead, too. and a phone interruption halts the new york city philharmonic. it is our get real straight ahead. can you enjoy vegetables with sauce and still reach your weight loss goals? you can with green giant frozen vegetables. over twenty delicious varieties have sixty calories or less

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what music is that? sounds like the simp fon any

music. you're listening to the symphony play and all of a sudden this. [ cell phone ringing ] and it keeps going and it doesn't stop. so the maestro for the first time in history was forced to stop the music because of an iphone that just would not stop. it's the moremba ring tone which is a super annoying option which is why most people have it for their alarms because it force use to get up. it happened in the middle of the dramatic movements of the symphony. >> reporter: from the "wall street journal" was in the audience and she said she was thrilled that she was not the guy who owned the phone. listen. >> audience members started shaking their heads, sort of clucking, creating their necks to see who it is. but it keeps going and going and going and going. they were shouting. and they were jeering and saying, throw him out.

>> so much tension and there was such a stunned feeling that i think for everybody in the room, certainly for the musicians, something had to be done. >> something had to be done. well, he got a standing ovation for taking a stand and once the guy who owned the phone was positive that his phone was off, they resumed. come on. >> he stayed. >> there are judges in new york county supreme court who will take your phone, if you're an audience, family member, they don't care, they will take the phone, and keep it all day. >> i support that. >> and even threaten to put you in in contempt. >> honestly, turn it off. if you are on trial, maybe having your phone off would be a good idea. >> maybe i better check. >> this idea that we can never be unplugged. and the fact that -- >> look at all of us. >> if the phone goes huh, it's not mine because i put mine in the back in case they continue ring. if your phone goes off in the middle of a segment, you are

ta toss it, no joke. the author of a controversial book about the obamas is going to join us, jodi kantor. the first lady is not happy about the book. we'll discuss that straight ahead. [ jennifer garner ] there's a lot of beautiful makeup out there. but one is so clever that your skin looks better even after you take it off. neutrogena® healthy skin liquid makeup. 98% saw improved skin. does your makeup do that? neutrogena® cosmetics.

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you're watching "starting point." the tick took diner is where they are hosting us today. on the table, giant paste industries and giant, giant cakes. they've given us the cheesecake with strawberries. we're going to dig into that earl ily this morning, right, josh? >> no. >> still ahead northern imornin tell all book about the obamas. it talks about major drama in the white house. of course, the first lady is not thrilled about this book. and then this story about a white-only pool. really, this day and age? civil right panelist weighs in on a sign and mixed race couple has moved out. fist, though, a look at other stories making headlines. christine has that for us. good morning again. >> good morning. the u.s. embassy in bangkok, thailand is sending out emergency message to american there's concerning a potential terror threat. it comes after investigators arrest a lebanese terrorist

threat. they warn terrorist might target them in the near feature. just how badly the federal reserve missed the housing bust. transcripts of ben bernanke's first year of the chairman of the fed back in 2006 show the fed grossly underestimated the the risk of housing posed to the economy. of course, the markets collapse helped send the country so a worse recession since the great depression. president obama taking the first step toward raising the debt ceiling. officially asked congress for $1.2 trillion increase. congress has 15 days to reject the request. republicans expected to use the request to attack the president on excessive spending. even though he was fired back in november, penn state officials say legendary football coach joe paterno is being paid as if he retired at the end of this season. paterno was relieved of his coaching duties amid the child sex abuse scandal that rocked the school.

the president says the crisis can be blamed at the person at the center of the scandal. that's former coach jerry s sandus sandusky. new research suggests chemicals in the brain can make it harder for someone to quit drinking. the study looked at the distribution of chem cass to see why alcohol can be so addictive. u.s. markets up across the board yesterday. today stock futures for the dow, nasdaq, s&p 500, all trading flat right now. the dow and s&p 500 slightly lower at the moment. now, mortgage rates are also lower at the moment. still going down. 15-year fixed rate mortgages down to 3.16%. 30-year, 3.89%. we have never seen interest rates this low to borrow money. it's good news, of course, but also a sign that the economy is still very weak and, you know, you can take advantage of those low rates right now if you already have a mortgage and want to check into refinancing. it's been difficult for a lot of people, that's why it hasn't been the stimulus many had hoped for. back to you. >> christine, thank you.

this morning a controversial new book to talk about. it's about the obamas. it's called "the obamas." it's advertised as rare look behind the closed doors of the white house. it also paints a pretty controversial picture of the first couple. the author is jodi kantor. she's in washington, d.c. this morning. she is also a "new york times" correspondent. nice to have you. thanks for being with us. the first lady, as i know you know, thinks that this book is not a flattering portrait of her. do you think it is? >> i was so surprised by her reaction. and by the way this book has been covered, i've been covering the obamas for five years. what i wanted to do is write a carefully researched nuanced account of her time as first lady. it is the inside story of her first lady but it comes from her closest aide who spoke to me and told me about some of the struggles she faced in the white house. also the book never describes her as an angry black woman. it describes her as a strong

woman. so, you know, she did say that she hasn't read the book. so what i assume is that she's reacting to some of the more sensational coverage around the book, which is really discour d -- distorted reporting of what this book is. >> she did say to gail king the other say that she felt like she was being portrayed as an angry black woman. let's look a a little bit at what she told gayle the other day. >> i think it's more interesting to imagine those conflicted situations here and a strong woman and, you know, but that's been an image that people have tried to paint of me since, you know, the day barack announced that i'm some angry black woman. >> yeah. >> she may not have read the book but i read the book and -- hang on, let me ask you a question on this other side. i read the book and i do think that you describe the being a first lady of the united states,

a flotus, akin of being stuck on a chain gang. as you go through chapter after chapter, you end each chapter, i'll read this one. michelle wasn't exactly over joyed to move into the white house an aide said but she was determined. this is what they decided to do and failure was not an option. chapter two, end of chapter two. hang on. >> this comes from -- >> the president and first lady seems -- >> that comes -- that's something that one of her aides told me. that was their characterization. i do think that one thing comes -- that comes through in the book is that we have these glamorous images of air force one and state dinners and people tend to think that the president and first lady live these i immensely privileged lives. one thing is strange, they do have these enormous opportunities like the obamas told me a story about sasha meeting the pope. but there's this weird flip side

where they can't do everyday things. there's a very poignant story in the book that one of the president's best friends told me abili about sasha and whmalia trying trick or treat in washington. they tried to. they went to a regular washington neighborhood. all of a sudden all the onlookers appeared, cameras, phone, texting each other. so the kids couldn't do something as simple as trick or treating in washington. >> but your portrait, i think it's fair to say, having marked up the book pretty significantly, is the tone is sort of a sense of a woman who is frustrated, unhappy, and a little bitter about having the privilege of being the first lady. end of chapter two they notice the president and first lady seemed subdued. we live in the white house now, michelle obama told them. there's not -- and tend, but she didn't mention at the food bank -- end of chapter three. this is how you end these chapters. what she didn't mention in the food bank was that it had drawn

wide spread coverage from an unintended reason, to stuff thing bas the first lady had warned $515 pair of sneakers by the french designer lynn vin. i can see how someone might feel like you're constantly giving a portrait of a person who is unhappy about what your average person might think would be a really wonderful privilege. do you think -- do you understand that perspective? >> i think words like bitter are coming from you, not from me. i definitely never used that word. i consistently find that you did a segment a couple of days ago, i think called "get real" where you said my report to think halloween party was wrong. but actually i don't know if you had read the book at that point, but you misdescribed my reporting. the situation with the halloween party was that the outdoor part of the celebration, the trick or treating on the north portico was public. it was the party inside that ken burton and johnny depp

contributed to was quiet. also in the media coverage what's been lost is the significance of that story which is part of the first lady's turn around. the story i tell is more uplifting than the one you're describing. you're quoting from the early chapter where's she has a very difficult time when she first lands in the white house. she's a stranger to this univer universe. >> i'll pull from the rest -- the rest -- >> the rest of the story is actually about her turning around and the surprise of this story is that by this summer what white house aides were telling me was that the first lady was actually sort of more content with this life than the president was. and that was a great surprise to me, having covered them for this long. and we see many moments of triumph in this book. >> for one moment, let me stop you there for one moment. so you've covered them but you really hadn't interviewed them since 2009. so is there something about telling someone's story of their personal relationship of a marriage and sort of framing a presidency through the prism of a marriage that's a little bit

unfair if you haven't interviewed the people in the marriage in the white house since 2009? >> well, it's not sort of secrets of the obama marriage. that's definitely not this book. it's about translating your partnership to the presidential level. and so i'll give you an example of how i reported this. there's a very moving story in the book about the night that gabrielle giffords was shot and the obamas are having dinner and they're talking about it. how could i, an outsider, possibly know that story? i sat with valerie jarrett, one of they closest advisers and aides in the west wing office and she was at den we're them that night and she told me about their reactions. the book doesn't say michelle obama thought to herself, you know, da-ta-da, i did that journalists do, talk to sources close to them who are credible and who participated in this book and weren't forced into it. and told me this story. and the other thing, soledad, is as journalists, i don't think

oh. >> let me stop you there. the first lady has said, how would you know that these -- how would you know what's inside -- what's inside her head. i'll read you a little bit, right. you didn't use the word bitter. on the front flap you said, michelle obama, b even as she charmed the public, she struggled to gain an internal influence and to reconcile her natural bluntness and strong opinions with her confining new role. a lot of people read that and they're like, oh, that sounds like an angry black woman who is now in the white house around kind of frustrated and unhappy at a little bit pissed off about being first lady. can you understand her unhappiness with that? those are your words, not mine. >> again, i never used the phrase angry black woman. one of the things i documented carefully in the book is that first lady is a really hard job. and pretty much every woman who has ever had it has struggled with it in some way. if you you read the laura bush memoir, for example, she talks about feeling very misunderstood

as first lady. she talks about the isolation of living in the residence. you know, the house is practically charactered in this -- isn't that the point oh we in a way, isn't that the point that that's her memoir. right? after she leaves the white house, the first lady, who is often people keep their hands off the whoman who is not electd to to the office but her job to watch the kids. it's her take on her experience in the white house. >> are you saying that the -- but soledad, your argument is that the first lady shouldn't be covered in a serious baby journalists. i look forward to reading her memoir. >> i think that if you're going to -- >> but a reported ba eed book b outside fair observer -- >> you have not interviewed her. you haven't interviewed her. i don't even know the first lady. i interviewed her once four years ago. you haven't interviewed her since 2009. there are many moments in the book where you talk about things that are internal to her relationship with her husband, the president. so i'm just saying, i do think

you should cover her as a journalist. i'm just saying you can understand how someone would feel having their relationship taken apart in a book, deconstructed in the book from someone who hasn't really done an interview with the two parties involved. that's all i'm saying. i don't have any more time. >> i spent 40 minutes talking to the two parties involved. also, this is why biography is. >> in 2009. >> yes. >> i hear ya. i get it. right. but trying to understand a marriage between two people and a last time you talked to them together was in 2009. tinge fir i think she has some valid complaints about it. >> why do you think the white house cooperated with this book? >> we went way long. how about this? >> why do you think the white house -- >> i would like to know oh we. >> -- talked to me? they knew exactly what they were getting into, soledad. >> i have noed idea. but clearly the first lady did not cooperate with the book. >> she did. she gave me access to her east

wing. why did she let me talk to all of her top aides? >> she did not give you an interview. >> she hasn't given any booker is views. >> ultimately you dientsbier view her. we are out of time. >> she doesn't. >> we are v. covered this ground. i'm so grateful for your time. i believe -- and i believe that anyone who wants to know more should pick up this book, called "the obamas" written by jodi kantor. straight ahead, south carolina senator jim demint as a book as well. that's a heavy book. i'm exhausted. we're going to talk about his book and what he's thinking about for the 2012 race. and then this story with our legal specialists this morning. whites-only in the pool. we'll take a look. public swimming pool, is this legal? is it right? we'll talk about that straight ahead. ♪[music plays]

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welcome back. a mixed race family has moved out of their apartment in cincinnati after their landlord posted a white only sign outside of the public swimming pool. yesterday a civil rights panel unanimously upheld a decision that the sign was an indication that this mixed rags teenager

was being discriminated against. the father says the owner didn't want her to use the pool because of product that was her hair cloud i'd ted the water. after various iterations of her reasoning she said it's an antique. she values antiques. the sign dates back to alabama, 1931, that's t. it's not about race. there's a whole lot of crazy in this story. >> it's unbelievably outrageous that we're approaching the legacy of martin luther king that we're going to be honoring this weekend. to have something like this happen. we're having anti-semetic events happen in brooklyn. >> we're not at the mountain top. >> sunny host sta, we have two legal specialists at the table. back up a little bit. the landlord said didn't want this teenage girl in the pool because product from her hair was making the pool cloudy. >> cloudy, right. >> that was the first thing she told the civil rights panel. then she changed the story when they said no.

>> said it was merely decorative. it's not decoration, it's discrimination. it's very clear. to your point, i think we have come such a long way. usually it was institutionalized racism with whites only signs. now we're talking about sort of individual discrimination. i think in many respects there's much more of a chilling effect because now your neighbor is doing that to you. the civil rights act does protect against that as well. when i first read about this story what was remarkable to me was so many comments to many of the stories were like, bottom line is this is her private property. she can do whatever she wants. you can't discriminate even if your private life. it's even worse. >> what are the legal arguments on that? eventually she went back to the panel and said, this is my pool. everybody who wants to go in my pool has to ask my own permission. including my father. it gives insight into this woman this all kinds of ways. >> put this in a larger contest.

soledad, you had your conversation with rand paul. what this boils down to is the 1964 civil rights act. the one section of the '64 civil rights act that talks about private property, that restaurants cannot exclude people based upon race. of course the civil rights act said no government can discriminate on the basis of race. >> institutionalize it. >> the parts of the civil rights act that they talk about is private property. >> it's not private property, right, because she's renting to people. >> right. >> she's saying that it's her private property but it's really not. >> what if it were her private property? what if she said this is my pool and i can put up a sign that says anybody i want is allowed in the pool. >> still illegal. >> had the chilling effect. >> because of the civil rights act of 1964? >> that's right. >> there's a protected group. you can't discriminate based on race, gender, sexual orientation. they are protected classes here. >> the landlord's name is jamie hind. >> give a shout out to jamie

hind. >> she is in cincinnati, ohio. she said this, i've never said anything to that child. that would be the teenage girl. if i have to stick up for my white rights, i have to stick up for my white rights. it goes both ways. >> it's incredible that here we are in 2012 and these kinds of comments are being made. it was not that long ago, about a year and a half ago in a community i dealt with we dealt with the islamic culture and the mosque. we saw the same discrimination and father monk gerg. we have so much work to do. as we honor dr. king's legacy this weekend, we realize how far we have to go. >> i have to stick up for a white race, not my personal property rights. >> all the landlord should have done was sue the landlord tenant, that kind of action for the chemical in the pool. they would have had a great state action. >> how many people that are fair skinned cloud themselves in what

is it, stuff? >> i don't know. >> all this sun screen and they get into the pool and the pool is clouded up. >> i have hair products. gels. >> she went before a panel. they said this is ridiculous a couple of times to her. then the family moved out because they felt that a teenage girl shouldn't be made to feel badly. >> because it's term. >> so ultimately what happens with the landlord? she got her way. mixed race girl has moved out, taken her family. >> it's not over. >> the stress is still there. >> for the landlord. >> it's certainly not over. she appealed it. thank goodness the ohio commission said, no, 4-0, bottom line. >> where does it go from here? >> still discrimination. i think they're going to try to make some sort of resolution. if there's no resolution, she'll be looking at the attorney general of ohio. that's where it should go. the point should be made, this is discrimination. >> jamie hind, landlord, call us. we'd love to have you on the show. we're dying to talk to you.

>> sunny hosta made cheese grits. >> i'm so proud of her. >> i have bacon and cheese grits. >> right. thank you. appreciate it sunny. still ahead this morning, going to talk about another crazy case. mississippi manhunt for the pardoned killers. now oklahoma is trying to take some of those very powers that pardoned these four guys away from the governor in that state. severe weather is dumping snow in the midwest. it's messing up flights all over the country. we'll take a look at your travel forecast straight ahead. my mother froze everything. i was 18 years old before i had my first fresh bun. the invention that i came up with is the hot dog ez bun steamer. steam is the key to a great hot dog. i knew it was going to be a success. the invention was so simple that i knew i needed to protect it. my name is chris schutte and i got my patent, trademark and llc on legalzoom.

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welcome back to the ticktock diner which is where "starting point" is coming to you from this morning. we are surrounded by food. we're about to dig into our cheesecake. that's a new york city specialty. i'm going to open that up in a few moments. we'll talk this morning about conservatives who are meeting to pick the man who they think is the anti-romney. evangelicals are watching that in south carolina. the manhunt for the pardoned killers in mississippi. that's leading into another state. plus we're going to talk to two sisters who were not pardoned. one promised a kidney to her sister. in an effort to get out of prison, they're really angry what was given to some killers. plus what a mess for travelers. after the first big midwest snowstorm, 500 flights have been canceled. we'll update you on your travel plans. change you can believe in. we reveal how much the tsa made off your loose anythingless, dimes, quarters. i want you to take a guess how

much money. back to your guesses in a moment. moment. starting point begins right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com welcome back, everybody. texas christian leaders are meeting for two days in the state of texas starting today. the goal is to agree to a candidate to get behind and a candidate who is not mitt romney. there are some rumblings that they could fail to unite behind one person. tony perkins is the president of family research council. he joins us by phone. nice to talk to you. thanks for being with us. we appreciate it. >> good morning. >> let's talk a little bit about this meeting this weekend. good morning to you, thank you. what's the strategy? is the goal to hone in on one candidate or is that not possible? >> well, first off, it's not an anti-mitt romney meeting or bash mitt romney meeting. there is an uncomfortableness

with mitt romney. we want to see if there is consensus around an alternative candidate that has greater support among social conservatives across the country. it's very unlikely that there's going to be a unanimous consensus that comes about as a result of this meeting, but i do think you'll see more leaders move toward a personal endorsement of a candidate in the race going into south carolina. >> back in august you and hundreds of other evangelical leaders had an opportunity to meet with the texas governor, rick perry. since that time he has not done well, both in polling and also in the states where there have been contests, iowa and new hampshire. if you look at where he placed, for example, in the polls in south carolina, coming in at 5%. right toward the bottom of the list. so if it's not going to be perry, who i think was a big pick for evangelicals, who would be your personal next pick? >> well, i think there's

support. there will be support there for not only rick perry, who you're absolutely right, a lot of social conservatives like him, they like his record, they like what he stands for. he has underperformed in this campaign. there is support for newt gingrich among some. there's growing support for rick santorum after his performance in iowa and his record. i'm seeing more move toward him. there's going to be a very open discussion. there's going to be discussion about issues, what's expected of the next president regardless of who it might be in order to affect the culture and to strengthen the families. there's going to be a lot of discussion. i think it's going to be a productive meeting, whatever the outcome. >> it's been posited that the goal is to avoid what happened when governor huckabee was running. evangelicals were slow to back him. then it was senator mccain who

ran away from the nomination kind of leading you out of power there. is that accurate to say? >> yeah, that's absolutely correct. that's kind of the backdrop. that's what's driving it. it's not that long ago. four years ago the conservatives were kind of fragmented in the race as you had fred thompson stay in, you had mike huckabee, who was not extremely well known, believe it or not, among social conservatives at the time. some kind of held back. looking back at that as a result of the fragmentation, you had not the strongest of the candidates emerge. john mccain was not successful. that is the desire, not to see that repeated. >> tony perkins is with the family research council. nice to talk to you this morning. appreciate your time, sir. let's bring it to our panel. ramish ratnizar. your name is insane.

people mangle my name all the time. it bothers me. i'm going to try very hard. it's interesting to listen to tony perkins say they made a mistake last time with mike huckabee, that they did not glom on to his power early on. later it was senator mccain who walked away with the nomination. they felt a little bit out of the opportunity. when you look at a poll, let's throw the numbers up, about what people care about in terms of issues, social issues are at the bottom of the list or close to the bottom of the list. without my glasses i can't see. social issues, it's 2%. what does that mean for this evangelical meeting that's underway this weekend? >> well, based on what i've just heard, it sounds like this is going to work out pretty well for mitt romney. this is a caucus that seems pretty divided. it doesn't sound like there's any unity coalescing behind any one candidate. none of the social conservative candidates have distinguished

himself so far. santorum seems to be the most plausible or has the most momentum. i think romney is going to come out looking pretty good. it's in his interest if this remains a fractured field on the right, i don't think he ever counted on getting a whole lot of evangelical support. i think in the general election he's going to be okay. it seems that this is ultimately going to be working out in his favor. >> hang on one second. does he need the evangelical support. >> santorum? >> no, mitt romney who's ahead in the polls, has squeaked by in iowa, has a massive lead leaving new hampshire. looks terrifically positioned as he heads into south carolina. looks good in florida. looking out, does he need the folks who are meeting this weekend to say -- >> no. >> -- you know what, it's mitt romney you want to stand behind? >> his success is proving he doesn't need that. one of the big debates leading up to now is how much does the tea party and social conservative one and the same? how much is it defined by social conservatism. interestingly in new hampshire mitt romney got 40% of the tea party vote. we had wondered how big a

problem is mitt romney's mormonism. what it suggests to me people like tea partiers are willing to vote for mitt romney. they don't want to tell their friends. they're not letting people know they're supporting mitt romney, but they're going to vote for him. >> that's an interesting theory. we'll have a chance to go to south carolina and see that up close. >> different state. >> we've got to take a look at other stories other than politics, believe it or not. >> really? >> yes. yes. christine romans has those stories. >> you're right. just into cnn the white house, soledad, says president obama will ask congress for the power to shrink the federal government. the president's plan will start with combining a half dozen commerce and trade agencies that have been known to confuse businesses. first congress needs to give him the go ahead and then approve any changes. "the new york times" reports the obama administration has warned iranian leaders through back channels that blocking access in the persian gulf would trigger a u.s. response.

leon panetta says that would cross a line. >> we cannot allow them to develop a nuclear weapon. that's the red line. number two, we cannot tolerate iran blocking the straits of hormuz, and that's a red line. >> despite the words of warning from the u.s. iran has reportedly agreed to host a team of high-level u.n. nuclear inspectors later this month. attacking mitt romney as a vulture capitalist? it's backfired on rick perry in south carolina. it cost him the support of the state's highest profile donors. banking executive barry winn says perry's attacks undermine the gop's efforts to champion free enterprise. winn's now supporting romney. apple had planned to unveil its iphone in china but it didn't plan on riots breaking out. the crowd grew large and unruly. people started egging the store when it didn't open.

scalpers reportedly had more than 1,000 stand-ins waiting in line so they could sell the phones immediately on the black market. so much for a snow-free winter. the upper midwest, parts of the northeast could see snow today and into tomorrow. nearly 5 inches have already fallen on chicago forcing more than 500 flights to be canceled. jay miller from wgn is live in chicago. good morning. winter is here for you. >> reporter: oh, it is here, indeed. not the amount of snow that a lot of us had thought or hoped for, but certainly enough to cause a headache for people heading out this morning. a couple of inches of snow fell in the chicagoland area overnight. that snow has pretty much stopped, but it's now the blowing and drifting snow that is the problem. as you see this guy here with the snow blower, you know, he's doing a great job, but unfortunately the snow is blowing so hard that in about 20 or 30 minutes i guarantee you

that snow is going to go right back on that pavement. the streets in chicago not too bad. the main roads are pretty decent. it's the side streets that are a problem this morning. a lot of people are dealing with snow-covered cars. several inches of snow surrounding their vehicles. as i mentioned, the snow plows still haven't gotten to a lot of these side streets. a lot of people waking up this morning. we'll have to do some digging. the good news is not the big snow that we thought was coming and i was out here last year for the big blizzard. this is nothing compared to that. so i would say we've had it easy so far, especially considering just a couple of days ago it was i think a high of 52. go figure. >> what a difference a couple days will make. jae miller. thank you so much. let's check in on the markets. u.s. stock futures for the dow. the nasdaq and s&p 500 trading lower. that's after jpmorgan reported a

23% drop in the profit for the fourth quarter compared to a year ago. the ceo calls that disa pointing. oil futures back down below $100 a barrel right now. political tensions between iran and the united states still running high. iran has been threatening to shut down the strait of hormuz. right now crude trading at $99.24 a barrel. soledad? >> christine, thank you very much. be sure to follow us on twitter this morning. i was at soledad underscore o'brien. anita baker sent me a note about steven could he bare. he can't do that. thank you for your tweet. also getting a lot of feedback on jody cantore interview. some people loved it, some people not so much. ahead this morning we'll tell you about this ad. have you seen this ad about the dog? will and i were talking about this earlier. take a look at the mitt romney dog ad. >> we love the dog.

we had five kids inside the car. my guess is he liked it better in his kennel than he would have liked it inside. >> who let the dogs out? who? who? >> i'm trying figure out dnc ad. this is from the dnc? no, newt gingrich. all about the dog. will cain, give us a history on the dog. >> the story is that mitt romney's family dog, the car was full, five kids in the dar, maybe no room in the car. he put it in a really nice carrier and strapped it to the top of the car and pulled off down the road. said to soledad, i told you this earlier, this is not going to win me fans, popularity. >> do it anyway. say it anyway. >> i love dogs. man's best friend. had one for 13 years. we do societily accept that we can strap horses into a carriage in the back of the car and drag

them down the highway but we cannot put dogs on top of the car. i know dogs have a special place. >> horses don't fit in the back of the car. >> maybe romney doesn't see the distinction. it's somewhat arbitrary. >> has enough money to hire a second car. >> get a bigger car. >> what this ad does is it's very helpful for barack obama and the democratic party. >> really? people who are laughing about this ad absolutely don't sound like they're voting on this issue. crazy. >> ridiculist. can we call anderson cooper. >> i would absolutely agree with that. as they head into south carolina and newt gingrich, who created that ad, has sort of said it's going to be armageddon, do you think that he's overspeaking? we're going to see him start bringing down the temperature a bit? >> newt? >> yeah. >> you said this i'm not sure the audience got it. when that ad was playing, soledad said that's from the dnc, right? no, it says newt 2012.

do i think he's going to dial it down? no. >> none of this is doing any faf divorce. people don't like this. when i'm on trial i try to get along with the adversary. i'm telling you -- >> why? >> because the jurors don't like to see people having that kind of like personal battle between them. >> it damages both parties? >> yes, it does. jurors have come up to myself and the da on my trial and say it's so nice to see two people get along. >> people want solutions. in this economy we have double digit unemployment. >> we're heading into south carolina. we're going to get negativity. this morning we're going to talk with the scott sister. they served 18 years in the mississippi prison under governor barbour in that. they took part, that was alleged, in a robbery that netted $11. they didn't get pardoned by the governor and they want to know why murderers did. two marines have been identified in that videotape we showed you

yesterday. the shock is not wearing off today. we'll talk with general wesley clark straight ahead. our reveal this morning, guess how much money the tsa has collected from i'm going to say your loose change? my loose change. i travel all the time. some of that money is mine. take a guess. we'll talk about it at the break. [ male announcer ] if you think tylenol is the pain reliever orthopedic doctors recommend most for arthritis pain, think again. and take aleve. it's the one doctors recommend most for arthritis pain...

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outrageous morning over the former mississippi governor haley barbour granting pardons to actually more than 200 convicts. there are two women who did not get full pardons. they are the scott sisters. i covered their story a year ago. a year ago this past saturday they were released from prison, both of them. they had their life sentences suspended by governor haley barbour, but in order to win their freedom one sister had to agree that she would donate her kidney to the other sister. so glad disand jamie scott are in pensacola, florida, this morning. nice to see you, ladies.

gladys, i'm going to remind everybody how we met a year ago. you, jamie, needed the liver transplant. she offered that she would give her liver for the transplant and you got the suspended sentence after serving 18 years. so you were both paroled. what's your reaction when you hear about these killers who were released when you were really, i believe, ended up being convicted of conspiracy around a burglary? >> when i first heard it i was very upset about it because i couldn't understand why he would look over our petition that was filed a week prior to him leaving office. he never said aye or nay to our position but yet you allow murderers and rapists to be put-back on the street. i couldn't comprehend that. there's something else going on. i feel like that it's personal.

i feel like it's real personal. >> you do? i was going to ask you. part of this whole deal, but a lot of people wrote about it at the time was that gladys would have to donate her kidney to you because you needed a kidney and your health wasn't so great. you look much better now, i've got to tell you, today. how are you feeling? >> thank you. >> what is the status, jamie, of this transplant? >> well, at first when we first went to the hospital, they was not willing to even do the transplant because they said that in the order that governor barber did, you cannot force a human being to give another one an organ and that the kidney foundation wrote him a personal letter and he never responded. they wrote him a ler asking him to change that order, change that part in the order because you cannot -- they could not take her kidney if she was

forced to give it. so gladys had to explain to them that no matter what he said in black and white, that she would give me her left arm, that before he eastern came up with that she had already asked the department of corrections can she give me her kidney. >> let me take a break for a moment. hang on one second. i have to hit a commercial break. when we come back i want to talk about your potential for pardon and where you stand with your health. we're back in just a moment, everybody. "starting point" continues right after this.

and we're back with gladys and jamie. coming live from pensacola, florida. i remember when we were covering your case we were not talking about a murder case. you were charged with leading two men into an ambush for robbery. the amount of money, i believe, that was involved was roughly $11. you ended up getting life terms, both of you. in fact, the guys who actually were charged with perpetrating the robbery got out several years before you were able to be released on parole. nobody was killed in your particular instance. you served 18 years. so when you see people who are

convicted murderers who also said you guys maintained you didn't do it, these murderers did not say that they did not do it, what do you think is going on here? we've been looking into some of the motivation on the part of the governor. what do you think happened here? >> i feel like that it was a personal thing because me and my sister from day one, we have stood on our innocence that we did not do it. we have went by the guidelines of being on parole. we have to stay on parole for something. it seemed like we passed the crime all over again. >> you were telling me, jamie, about your condition. i had to cut to commercial break. i wanted to follow up with you. you didn't have the kidney transplant yet. are you scheduled to have it? how's your health? do you still need it? >> i'm in the process now. i go back in may. i go to a place called peer

support. i go five days a week. they're helping me with my weight loss program. everything is reay going wonderful. there are things that i should have gotten inside the prison. the reason why i was going down so fast in there that i'm getting out here. everything is just going wonderful, it's just when i heard about all the pardons and i actually printed out the list and looked at it, and i know several of the people that's on that list, and some of them were still violent in prison. you put them back out on the streets. that was just making me realize -- that made me realize, hey, this is something personal. >> forgive me. interesting. so let me ask you a final question before we run out of time, which is what happens now? you're feeling better, but you actually have to report still to a parole officer. you're on parole for the rest of your lives, right? >> yes. >> do you think the new governor

will grant you a pardon? >> i feel if the new governor would just take the opportunity and read our transcript and investigate, i feel like that if he do the right thing, that he would give us a pardon because right now, you know, we have several people still working. we have all our supporters. the mississippi center for -- mississippi worker center run by jeruba hill. everyone is supportive. nancy lockhart. my mother, she's in a bad situation. she just had her leg amputated. she's gone through six surgeries. so she's down right now, but our next step is to try to talk with the new governor and see would he give us a pardon because if we got a pardon. >> it will be interesting to follow your case. go ahead, gladys. if you're not pardoned, what? >> if we not pardoned, like me,

i want to be a nurse, but me being a convicted felon, having this over my head, i can't get my nursing license. we want to go on with our lives. we want to help children. we just want to just be normal. >> thanks for talking with us. i hear ya. >> thank you. >> we'll keep following what the new governor does in your case. it's nice to see you again. thanks. ahead this morning we're talking about this case of the marines who are urinating on corpses. outrage that's going. we're going to bring in general wesley clark straight ahead in a moment to discuss the latest updates on that case. the tsa apparently is making money off our loose change. i i say our. i travel all the time. some of that money is mine. stay with us. ! you know these clothes are too big now, so i'm donating them. not going back there again. good for you! how'd you do it? eating right, whole grain.

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welcome back to "starting point." we're coming to you this morning from the ticktock diner in lower mid town manhattan. they have now identified two of those marines that are in that video we showed you yesterday. there is outrage from the pentagon to afghanistan. barbara starr is following the investigation for us and also general wesley clark will join us as well to weigh in on what's happening there. thein sein tore jim demint has a new book out. he is handy capping the race for us. look at the headlines with

christine romans. >> good morning, soledad. the state department this morning warning american citizens in thailand about the possibility of terrorists targeting popular tourist areas in bangkok. comes after authorities arrested a terror suspect. the u.s. embassy says foreign terror suspects may be planning attacks in the future. 1.5 hours from now joran van der sloot will learn how long he'll spend in prison. his sentencing comes one day after natalee holloway was officially declared dead. van der sloot, of course, has been the prime suspect in her disappearance in aruba in 2005. he's never been charged for that murder. now rick perry getting his day in federal court. the texas governor is suing to get on the ballot for virginia's march 6th primary. he failed to get the 10,000 voter signatures required. newt gingrich, rick santorum, jon huntsman also failed to

qualify. they have joined perry's lawsuit. comedy central steven colbert is getting in the act making his candidacy official last night. >> i am proud to announce that i am forming an exploratory committee to lay the groundwork for my possible candidacy for the president of the united states of south carolina. >> in a recent poll of south carolina voters colbert tops presidential candidate jon huntsman. watching your money this morning, first let's check in on the markets. u.s. stock futures trading lower across the board after disappointing earnings from jpmorgan chase this morning. investors hoping for some signs that the u.s. economy is on the mend. here's one, college graduate salaries are rising. the average salary for the 2011 college class is now $41,701 a year. that's an increase from a year ago according to the national association of colleges and employers. guess what, it is, of course,

engineers, soledad, who get the best starting salaries. more than $61,000 a year. momma, don't let your babies grow up to be liberal arts majors. >> absolutely. i should have been an engineer. christine, thank you. the marine corps has now identified two of the four marines who were seen urinating on the corpses of enemies. the names not being revealed at this point yet. defense secretary leon panetta has said he is deeply troubled by this. we have barbara starr on this investigation. she's at the pentagon this morning. also this morning from little rock, former nato supreme ally commander, general wesley clark is with us. barbara, why don't you start by updating us on the investigation. >> reporter: you're right, soledad, they have now interviewed at least two of those participating in that video. the marines also tell us they expect very shortly to have a lot of this nailed down to know exactly who the other marines were in the video and, of course, the marine corps now has a major investigation going on

separate from that naval criminal investigative command investigation. so you've got two investigatory tracks going on. the marines quickly beginning to identify who was involved, interviewing them. they want to get a lid on this very quickly. they want to get it resolved. they are mortified, to say the least, about how this appears to the rest of the world. >> general wesley clark, we talked yesterday about sort of the impact on the chain of command and who ultimately would be responsible. first, what do you think potentially could be what these men are charged with when they are able to track down all four, which i assume they're going to be able to do? also, what happens to the folks whose command they're in? >> soledad, this indicates some breakdown in discipline, command control, supervision, and it indicates the difficulties that the militaries face when they're in long-term combat we've been

in in afghanistan and iraq. they can be charged under the uniform code of military justice, with conduct unbecoming, other actions, violation of general orders. there are a number of generalized charges that the specifics of this act could fall under. there's not a problem in creating a case against them, but i think that when it goes into the court martial system, which it probably will in the marine corps, that all of the circumstances around this will be looked at. so it won't be just the marines, it will be the chain of command, it'll be the previous activities, it'll be whether they have previous combat tours, it'll be whether any of them have been diagnosed with ptsd, whether any of them were taking any kind of psychological maintenance drugs. it could be quite far reaching. >> general, i want to ask you a question about training because this was a conversation we were having around the table yesterday, which was a sense of

if your job as a sniper is to shoot or kill people, doesn't the line get kind of blurry about how maybe possibly to treat those corpses depending on adrenaline, depending on the circumstances around a particular battle? >> not really. i think it's a very clean distinction. there's, of course, if you're a sniper, your job is to be out there looking and hunting and do a precision strike with a very high-powered rifle and some very power full optics. the job has nothing to do with what happens afterwards to the corpses, nothing whatsoever. and better not to be around them. get out of there. stay safe. keep your role undercover and let them think bullets fell from the sky and hit them. it's actually the opposite. not only that, but all of these men have been trained in a generalized notion of counter

insurgency, which is that you don't want to do things that aggravate and upset the civilian population. so regardless, forget about the videotape for second, what if other people saw them do this? so this is an action that's counterproductive to the strategy that's underway supported by the united states in afghanistan. >> you know, soledad, i want to weigh in. >> general clark, this is will cain. >> reporter: this is the conversation you hear around here inside military circles. these are small units way out in isolated areas away from anybody else. do they have a break from reality essentially, a break from societal norms that leads them to undertake these activities? so you hear that part of the discussion. do we need to be understanding of the stresses that they're under? but i have to tell you, i would underscore what general clark is saying. what you hear mostly is that that is nonsense. of course they are out there in

very tough circumstances, but there is still individual responsibility and there is nothing in military training or military law that permits the desecration of bodies no matter what stress you may be suffering from. that's the kind of conversation that you're beginning to hear now. >> barbara, this is will cain. i'd love to ask general clark. we asked general spider yesterday. not so much the geneva convention or training, aren't you always going to have this problem when you train men to kill which is a worse action than urinating on a corporation. you're training men to take the lives of other men. achilles dragged heck tore's body around the castle after he killed him. isn't this going to be an issue you always have when you train men to do something like this and then ask them to step back into civilization after they've killed someone? >> yeah, it is. it's always an issue. it's been there in every military since the dawn of time,

i'm quite sure. when people are in combat, the heat of come back the, the fear, the emotions about it, yes, their emotions run away from them. that's why they're trained, because they're not just exposing their emotions and letting emotions run wild. they're supposed to be disciplined because actions like this do have consequences. not just these national consequences we're seeing now, but consequences for their fellow marines and soldiers on that battlefield in afghanistan. >> general wesley clark with us this morning. barbara starr joining us from the pentagon. thanks. i appreciate the update on a story that we'll continue to follow of course. still ahead on "starting point," south carolina senator jim demint has a new book out. we'll talk to him about arm ma get din. plus we'll ask you what you think moneywise. how much money do you think the tsa hauls in from loose change? maybe more importantly, what do

you think they do with it? you're watching "starting point." ♪

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we're coming to you from the ticktock diner this morning. little breakfast. he is considered to be a king maker in south carolina. we call a lot of people a king maker. in south carolina conservative senator jim demint truly is a king maker. he's got a new book he's promoting. it's all about america's economic survival. i talked to him about his book and what he thinks about 2012 as we head into the election. >> reporter: the senator's book is called "now or never, saving america from economic collapse." nice to have you, sir. thanks for being with us. appreciate it. you talk a lot about spending in this book. one thing you say is decades of reckless spending by both parties has given us massive debt and an unsustainable size of government without precedent in this nation's history. give me some background. how did we get here? >> again, it is a problem of both parties, and it's part of the washington environment where you're there to make people happy by creating a program or

sending bacon back home to your state, but i'm trying to sound the alarm with "now or never." it helped people understand we've never been in a situation like this. we've got about half of americans now depending on the government in some way. the other half are paying for it. we need to take care of those in need, but the fact is, if we keep this debt level, we're going to end up worse than greece. 2012 may be our last chance to turn it around. >> there's an argument that says since washington insiders helped create the problem, why would we possibly turn to washington to help fix the problem? >> i'm telling folks that you can't. it's only an intervention by the american people that's going to change things. we've got to change a lot of people who are in washington who are there to take home the bacon. >> you wrote in the book that government doesn't cure poverty, it subsidizes poverty. i thought, this is a chicken and the egg thing especially when you consider the number of children in poverty, the number of kids who the only meal they'll get during the day is a

meal that is given to them, subsidized, through their school because their parents are in poverty. >> the unintended consequences of welfare programs are so obvious. when we started welfare, the unwed birth rate in america was below 10% for blacks and whites. now it's over 40%. 70% for blacks. if you want the indicator for poverty, juvenile delinquency, incarceration, it goes back to unwed births. but we have not helped poverty, we have actually made it worse. i'm not saying don't help the poor, but let's do it in a way that doesn't trap them in generational dependency on government. let's do it in a way that teaches self-sufficiency, helps people develop the skills, the character to succeed. but we're obviously not doing that so just doing more of the same with more money is not helping people, it's hurting people. >> let's talk about the race. newt gingrich has talked about how armageddon is approaching. is that a word you would use? armageddon is coming to south

carolina? >> no. i think there's a lot of exaggeration. >> i hope so. armageddon is the end. >> that is the end. i think this is the final battle for some of these candidates. they have to make their last best case. >> you have an endorsement of romney. you did four years ago. >> this is a different race. i'm going to keep my focus on the senate, the senate conservatives. i feel like if i can elect or help elect five or six more good conservatives that we'll send the next president good legislation. >> the tea party that had so much power in 2010. the candidates that the tea party was so strongly for, michele bachmann and rick perry, michele bachmann's out of the race. rick perry, new hampshire was less than 1%. how do you read into that? >> the party is divided. i think all the candidates are talking about what we need and what the tea party was all about. mitt romney talks about cut, cap, balance. balance the budget. it's the fiscal economic situation that pulled the tea party together, and i think all of our candidates are talking

about the right things. so you've got tea party members who are supporting all of the candidates right now. it's just divided. i think you'll see as we get our nominee the activists around the country come together and you night behind a candidate because we really do see this as perhaps our last chance to turn it around. >> the book is called "now or never, saving america from economic collapse." senator jim demint is our guest. we're going to see you when we come to south carolina. you've agreed to have breakfast with us. >> it can be dangerous. >> i've heard armageddon is coming. i consider myself forewarned. >> i don't think you'll find it that bad. >> i'm glad to hear that. thank you. we appreciate your time this morning. up next, the reveal. how the tsa is making money off your loose change and what they do with it. stay with us. i'm good about washing my face. but sometimes i wonder... what's left behind?

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that's where we are. right near 34th street this morning. time for our reveal. it looks like the tsa has hit the mother lode with our loose change. turns out many of us, me included, have been leaving our coins behind at the airport security check point. they pocketed how much? >> completely out of thin air. >> i assay a million. >> no, off. $409,000. very nicely done, will. appreciate that. that's a lot of change. >> what do they use it for. >> that's a nice question. they keep it. they keep it all. there's a florida lawmaker who would like to put a stop to that. he's introducing a bill that would force the tsa to donate the money to the troops. take a guess at which airport brings in the most money?

anybody? >> atlanta. >> ding, ding, ding. j.f.k. just under $50,000. half of that is my money and change. the end point is up next with our panel. stay with us. on my journey acro,

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welcome back. we have reached the "end point" this morning. we ask our panelists to sum it all up for us. what do you think, rash? >> i think mitt romney has done a pretty good job defending himself against these attacks. the next shoe to drop will be the tax returns. >> he's really rich. what don't we know? he's $5,000 richer than we thought? really, really rich. >> the question is what his income tax rate, what he's paying. that's the big question. that's where he's vulnerable. >> will cain? >> my take away, democrats, for that matter newt gingrich, rick

perry, want to have a debate. i want to have the debate. >> why. >> i do not want to have say debate about strapping dogs to the car. >> so does america want to have the debate about the dogs on the car? do you think america wants to have a capitalism debate? >> america wants to have a conversation, won't say debate, about how to get the economy back on track, how to make it grow. >> the dog on the car thing is underscoring a disconnectedness. outside of the people making fun of the whole thing. the whole point of that story is there's something a little disconnected to everybody else, unless you put -- >> i 100% agree with you. that makes two of them. democratic nominee and republican nominee, kiss connected. >> my take away is that jody cantore, she's the angry one now. >> tweeting this morning about it. >> angry now. >> it's interesting, i think it'll be -- you should read the book and we can continue to discuss it. >> we're going to read the book. >> it's your weekend assignment.

i want to you read the book and see what your take is on that book because we can talk about it for hours. what's your take away this morning? >> my take away is divisiveness in the republican primary. we're seeing that the republican party has not truly coal lessed behind one nominee even though romney won in new hampshire, even though he won in iowa. >> does it matter? >> we'll see that play out in the general election. that bodes well for the democratic party. >> another democratic elected official. we talk about that. i think will's got a point there. my "end point" of the morning is i support steven colbert for president. it would make the race so much better, more interesting. i have to end with a final shout out to delta sigma theta. 99 founders day is today. congratulations. "cnn newsroom" with kyra phillips begins right now. phillips begins right now. that's it for "starting point." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com