make it big, you will end up having to fly and you will miss the good old days of the rv. thanks for watching. the state of any union is tomorrow. we're excited for that. tonight, as president obama prepares his "state of the union" address. the vice president's second lady. >> and exclusive interview with one very unexpected interruption. >> that is your husband landing. >> it is? how funny is that. >> and sean pen, what he thinks americans need to ask. >> what do we stand for as a community and our country and what do i stand for in my family. >> reporter: his thoughts in the white house. >> i don't want to see a narrow-minded leadership encourage a narrow-minded congress.

>> his hollywood life. it's my pleasure to sit down exclusively with the second lady, in california. jill biden joins me now. is the such an amazing place. tell me what you've been doing here? >> this morning, i went to a place, they took me to a village they had constructed, like an afghan village and did a live fire and showed me what the marines went through or are going through as they went to afghanistan. i went and looked at the place

where they teach them how to handle bombs and ieds and talked to all the marines there in. it was a pretty intense morning. >> when you are that close and they're firing live ammunition, what's the difference between that and everything you've read or heard about it? >> i think it made me realize just what our servicemen and women are going through. i see them a lot before they go and see a lot of wounded warriors. to get the mindset of what it looks like and smells like and feels like is pretty incredible, to see what these men and women and courage they have and resilience to go into these villages and not knowing what they're going to encounter. it's pretty incredible. seeing -- i met with the women marines who go into the village s and so they meet with all the women in there and try to meet their needs.

it was intense. >> you've had a personal interest. your son, bo, fought in iraq. what was that like for you as a parent to see a son go to war? >> i think it was really tough for our family, to have bo deployed, that whole year was very tough. he has two small children and just like every other service member, i mean, he missed their birthdays and christmas and i like to -- the way i can relate it is, it was hard for our family, especially during the holidays, thanksgiving and christmas, we'd look down the table and bo was not there and we'd all try to pretend like, you know, we were having a great holiday, but it really does create an empty space in your heart. that's why i think when i go to visit the military families, a lot of times, i think i really connect with the military moms because i know what they've gone through. i know what it's like to have a

child -- even though he's a grown man, he's still my child. >> how much harder is it that your husband is one of the decision-makers to go into war, to go into battle zones? >> actually, that's one of the best things about it for me. i knew joe truly wanted to get out of iraq and wants to get our soldiers out of afghanistan as soon as they can be pulled out. so i -- one of the reasons i wanted my husband to run for president in the first place, i wanted -- i knew joe would fight to get out of iraq. for me, when we joined with the administration with barack and michelle, i knew that, you know, it's a dream come true that now we're out of iraq and we're moving towards moving out of afghanistan. >> as a mother, in the position of having a son out there, what did you find were the most difficult things to deal with, when you're talking to all the other families? what are the things you most relate to, in terms of problems or issues that arise when you

have a loved one who's at battle? >> i think -- well, with the wounded warriors, my son was not wounded, but when they come back, the mothers sort of pull me aside and talk to me privately about, you know, i never thought my son would come back like this and, you know, make these comments to me. i feel like, you know, i just hug them and that's what i thought about, too. what if my son comes back and he's been in battle and he's been wounded? and to be raising children and be by yourself. i know when my daughter in law was by herself and we had a big snowstorm and one of the neighbors came by and quietly shoveled the snow out, never said a word, never went to the door and said, look what i've done. that has the kind of thing -- >> it's so important, isn't it?

>> so important. >> to understand, yes. >> i read something you said which really resonated with me, the families don't wear the uniforms. >> exactly. >> in most cases. they can be almost in visible as military families? yes. >> if they had a badge saying my husband or wife is at war, it would be so much easier for them, especially in america where there is such a pro military sentiment among most. without that, they're on their own. >> that's why michelle obama and i created "joining forces," because we felt all americans need to be aware of the sacrifices of the families and that's why we appeal to all americans to commit to an act of kindness, go to your strength, do whatever it is. if you're a baker, make something to take over for a family just like that neighbor did. that was such a kind gesture, to do it, not want any thanks out of the goodness of his heart. >> what was the day like when bo

came home? >> that was a wonderful day. we were all so excited he was coming back. you can hear, you know, how uplifting it was. i think his children -- they wouldn't let go of his clothing. they were hanging on to his legs and hanging on. they just didn't want to let go of him. it was joyous. >> we're on the eve of the state of the union. what would you say the state of the union's mood is? what do you get an overall sense of the mood and atmosphere is among the people in the service is right now? >> i think they're uplifted because i think that they know that this administration truly has their back and they are a number one priority for this administration, to take care of them. the four of us are committed. me and joe and michelle and barack.

we're all out there working hard for our military, whether that means getting job, improving education, working on wellness, all of us are taking a piece of it. i think -- i think the military know that we're behind them 100%. >> obviously, if the democrats win the next election, then joe could face a number of other big decisions, involving sending troops to war. describe for me what it's like to be with somebody that has to make decisions like that or have to live with the daily -- let me give an example. what was it like for your family when the raid on osama bin laden took place, because clearly, the upside was huge. the down side, as president carter was telling me the other night, equally huge. tell me what that experience was like. >> i knew something was going on, because joe was at the white house two days before. he was barely home. he couldn't tell me what was going on.

but i remember -- and the kids were on the phone with me, like, mom, what's going on? they knew that something big was happening. you know, i was waiting for joe to come home that night, after they had announced it on tv. i saw it with everybody else. i put on my bathrobe and i went downstairs, 12:00 at night. i was waiting for him to come up. i opened the door and down by our gate, people had gathered and they were singing "god bless america." >> wow. >> that was one of the highlights of the last three years, that, you know, barack did what he said he was going to do and all -- i could see on the tv people cheering and you could hear it all over the neighborhoods. that was truly a highlight. >> what were joe's first words when he came in this door? >> gosh, i don't remember. i remember running out and hugging him and saying thank you. >> what a moment. >> truly a moment.

>> for the administration and america and the world. i can only imagine. >> yeah. >> is it moments like that that make all the obvious hardships that come with your life now. lots of pluses but lots of minuses. is it for moments like that everything seems worth it? >> yes. for sure. >> let's take a little break. i want to come back and talk more about the vice president. >> okay. >> i'm very interested in how he wooed you. >> oh. >> through an advertisement he saw. >> well -- >> hold your fire. i want to hear about this. >> okay. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol

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back with the second lady, jill biden. tell me about your husband. i'm fascinated about this story, he basically got his eyes on you when he saw a picture of you in an advertisement. is this true? >> part of it is true. i had met him once before. we were in a crowd and it was at a fund-raiser. i guess he saw a picture of me somewhere and he said, that's a girl i would like to date. i knew his brother. he said, i know her. i was in college at the time and his brother was there. frank called me and got my number and joe called. said, this is joe biden. would you like to go out? >> where was your first date? >> we went to philadelphia to the movies. >> do you remember the film? >> no, i don't. >> was he so mesmerizing you didn't even -- didn't look at the screen?

>> you know, i went out with him because -- i actually had another date that night that i canceled and just because i thought he would be interesting to go out with. i said, this is one time -- just once. but i went out with him and i was really charmed by him. at the door, he was -- you know how guys are usually trying to make their moves and he didn't. >> he was a gentleman. >> he was a gentleman. he shook my hand. i remember going upstairs and calling my mother at 1:00 in the morning, and i said, mom, i finally met a gentleman. >> did you really? >> yes, i did. >> do you think the guy you ditched that night has any idea you ditched him for the later vice president? >> no. >> what are the qualities about joe biden that you think make him fit to be vice president of this country? >> well, i think he has a strong character. i think he's passionate about helping people.

i think he's decisive. and he's -- he's smart. >> people say probably the biggest compliment about you is that you've carried on working, unlike most people in your position in history, you've actually continued, and teaching is your great passion. >> right. >> tell me about that, when you decide to go on, many people wouldn't have done that. >> when we were elected, i said to joe, you know, i have to continue to teach. he said, i think you should. then we talked with barack and michelle. said to michelle, you know, i really want to teach, i want to keep at it. she said, you have to do what you love. so four days after the inauguration, i was in the classroom. >> really? >> yeah. >> is it strange teaching when you're the vice president's wife? do you get the same kind of treatment other people do, do you think? >> a lot of my students don't really realize i'm second lady. because they don't either expect it or maybe they haven't watched

the news, i don't know, but i can go whole semesters when somebody will say to me, you know what, i saw you on the tv and you were with michelle obama and i screamed to my mom, look, there's my english teacher! my mother said, no, it isn't. so those things happen to me frequently. >> critics of america right now focus on education as one of the big problems. >> uh-huh? would you go along with that? do you think there is a lot more to be done now with education? >> i do. i think a lot more needs to be done. i knew when we joined this administration it was a focus of barack's and he would work hard to keep it better and he has. he's kept his promise. i feel very comfortable we're moving forward and things are getting better? what have been the best and worse things of being the vice president's wife in the last few years? >> the best things are, i think i have a platform and i can do so many things just like you mentioned, with one of the best

nights was of course -- >> i tell you what. let me stop you. that is your husband landing. >> is it? it is. how funny is that! >> it's actually them landing. let's keep the camera rolling, actually. this interview has just been interrupted by vice president biden coming over our heads and wrecking his wife's interview. nice plane, though. >> yeah. it is a great plane. >> where were we? i remember. the best and worst moments. >> i've been give an platform and i said i would never waste one day of it. i've tried to hold true to that. look at me today. look where i am at the marines at camp pendleton and the things i have seen. i have been able go to the refugee camps in kenya and fight famine, help fight famine. i've been able to work on my

love, education, and work for community colleges for all americans to look at what opportunities they can have. i think that's probably the best things -- everyday is like a best day. there are down times. >> what's been the worst day? >> the worst day, the worst day is a personal kind of thing. it was three weeks before we were elected. within a span of four days, my mother died, my son was deployed to iraq, i had to bury my mother, and then i sort of had to pick myself up and get out on the trail again. that was the worst time for me. >> you've got a pack of rottweiler republicans scrapping it out now -- >> that's your description. >> yeah. mine. scrapping it out to have the right to take on barack obama and your husband. are you guys ready for the fight that's coming? >> yeah. i think we're ready. it wasn't easy the last time. but i think we're ready. we're looking forward to going

out and campaigning. i think this is my 13th campaign. i'm a veteran campaigner. as are the other three principals. we're going out, talking to americans, seeing what's on their minds. we're all looking forward to it? >> what does being an american mean to you? >> i think it means, you know, having traveled around to other countries and i think the aspect of freedom is really important. i've seen it in --you know, with the refugees, i've seen it going to iraq. i just -- and just hearing from so many military families. i think it's having that aspect of freedom. >> jill biden, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. thank you. >> that was the second lady of the united states, jill biden. next, i'll sit down with sean penn and ask him for his take on the state of the union.

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sean penn is an actor making movies over 30 years, oscar nominated five times and won

twice. he's just as well-known for his passion for politics and putting himself on the line for his causes. sean penn joins me again. welcome back, sean. i always like to talk to you after you had your coffee. feel like it revvs you up a bit. the state of the union is tomorrow. what are your thoughts on the state of the union and right now in america. >> it's interesting watching the political landscape, the media political landscape with the republican debates. what happened with newt gingrich, with all of that coming out almost had the effect of branding a seriousness to these candidates because the country had shown it is so fed up with not dealing with the issues of jobs, that in some

kind of way that juxtaposition seemed to benefit a perception that is still rather empty. because the job issue is not a discussion on television, it's a life issue in the home. the country has been so invested in these wars abroad and really seems to have lost track about what a constitutional america is and what a unified america is. >> when you heard newt gingrich exploding with anger at the cnn debate about this apparent focus what he says is his private life, let me ask you, it's a complicated issue, the issue of a man's character or his private life in relation to his fitness to be president of the united states. do you care? do you care about any aspect of a politician's private life? >> i think the only great skill he has is in responding to such thing and inflaming such things in attacks on others and really

gone into his wheel house. but, again, it's this cheapening of it where the issues themselves, and we always hear it, let's stay on the issue, let's stay on the issue, i think that this country has always been that most poised to be the aspiration of any country. >> do you feel proud to be an american right now? >> well, yes, i do, because i have -- i always have had a great belief in the possibility here. i think the fact that we are in a country, whereas individuals, we can still dream, that we can still talk about it as a possibility, it is something to be proud of. in practice, i think that, you know -- that's one of the discussion points, you know, when people are -- somebody says, i'm not proud, someone

answers it in the contrary way and i understand that, without considering that a lack of it a -- patriotism. if sometimes we're less than proud, those moments occur, we're just not thinking. >> things have happened as we sat here, troops coming out of iraq. you must have been pleased to see that? >> it was a complicated situation. i would have been much more pleased had we waited and seen the iraqis do as the egyptians are struggling to do, as the libyans have done and in tunisia, i believe the arab spring would have gotten saddam hussein out of power by this time and saved a lot of american lives and a lot of american dollars and killed a lot less iraqi babies. >> the clear evidence that might have been the case, what happened in libya, where he was in power and in the end taken

out by his own people and no loss to american life whatsoever. >> you have this great possibility in libya because it's only 6 million people, non-sectarian, you have foreign countries that have frozen libyan assets, not concerned about criticism of their constituents by releasing funds because it's libyan's people money stolen by gadhafi in the first place and have deep natural resources and great tourist sites and beaches and the oil. i think libya can be an epicenter for something. no doubt the united states support of the nato action there was a brilliant military success. >> very very different to how american military operations have been conducted in relation to despots in the past. it may be paving a new way for american foreign policy, no

longer the world's policeman but the country that goes around backing up people either to have their own natural uprises for concerted nato effort, where the pressure and the responsibility doesn't hang just on america. >> exactly. libya is a good example because the in terry leadership was turned over to those who fought and sending those revolutionaries to leadership councils. not the theft of revolution they're experiencing in egypt. >> what people say who criticize you say it's very well, sean penn saying get out of all these places, blah blah blah. if he was president and you had mahmoud ahmadinejad in iran, and planning to obliterate israel, what would you do to stop him? >> i thought when 9/11 happened, that i would have loved to have

seen george bush, let the american people and the world know, this is inexcusable and these people are going to die, and we're going to kill them. we're not going to kill any else. if i do it illegally, i'm not going to corrupt your constitution to do it, i'll go to jail, we will take care of that. we also have to realize c 4 explosive existed when i was a kid and so did the koran and you didn't have any suicide bombs in iraq, no history. now, it's rampant. what happens? if you take people's hope away, they believe tomorrow can't be a better day for themselves, their family, their religion, their country, of course, you will have hopeless acts happen whether on smaller scales or like 9/11. i think that, you know, there is this administration has had a couple of extremely successful military campaigns. they also had, i think, using

the u.s. military, a very successful criminal accountability campaign in pakistan. >> you're not a pacifist, are you? >> no. >> it's wrong to characterize you in that way? >> yeah. no. you know, i'm an aspiring pasi fist. i would like to think one day that my children will live in a world where that insanity of killing other people to solve problems will be archaic and obsolete. we're not there yet. but what we're doing, really, is allowing very wealthy people to make sheep of us because they know that we feel weak if we're not represented by a gun. we are losing the american courage to stand up against the bad guy without one. and so what's happened is we get pushed around and we believe that these wars make sense because they give us an identity.

it really speaks to the disconnect or the exploitation between a kind of wealthy class and the military industrial complex and the corporations that are so behind every one of the candidates that we have in power. it's not the candidates' fault, it's this system that we let happen. it's something we can change. i look at, for example, where i worked in haiti, if i believe it's possible in haiti to turn that country around, god knows i do, i know it will work in haiti. then turning this country around should be butter. but it will take courage of the masses, like for example, i think we talked briefly last time i was here about the occupy movement. something is in the air now. i believe that there is a chance. i do think that, you know, we do have a president who has as president clinton had, at least they represent an aspiration of intelligence and conversation

that whether or not we agree with the sitting president, it's not an embarrassment. >> let's take a break, talk more obama and gop and haiti and a dash of george clooney because no seg. is ever complete without a dash of george clooney. shall we agree, sean? >> i'm right with you. >> stay true all these years to his word to help the haitian people. it's truly remarkable, you know, to have that dedication and be so diligent. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. premier of the packed bag. you know organization is key... and so is having a trusted assistant.

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as a public service announcement, sean penn's non-governmental haitian relief foundation. pick up again on the obama and gop race because obviously america is facing a big decision come november. one of the things i've noticed, quite interesting about the gop race is all the tea party candidates have one by one fallen by the wayside. as they have done, most of the other candidates have stepped up ever more right wing rhetoric, particularly on social issues

like abortion or gay marriage or so on. what have you made of that double pronged phenomenon? >> i think that you're seeing the more experienced candidates hanging in and then adopting that kind of fundamentalist position they feel is most sellable now, that the candidates that have fallen out were just amateurs among amateurs? >> when you see somebody who is running to be president in your country, say, they were trying to make gay marriage illegal again, they would try and -- they wouldn't believe in abortion even in the cases of rape and incest. when you hear them say that and they genuinely say it with conviction, someone like rick santorum, he means this stuff and he might be president. when you hear that, what do you think? >> i think the same thing, when something happens, whether it was part of the initial campaign commitments of president obama or something that fell short of

that or changed afterwards, that first we have to be a country of the people. we first have to say, okay, the president is not -- unless somebody's telling me they're a dictator, now, i don't want to see rick santorum be president because i would like to see people in trouble in this country getting out of it. i would like to see -- you know, i don't want to see a narrow-minded leadership, encourage a narrow-minded congress. but the getting hung up, whether it's rick santorum, barack -- president obama or anybody else, again, i think this is part of how we get thrown. you have to kind of -- look at the map and put the calculator next to the map. here's how we will build it, here's how much it will cost and

benefit people and not get torn because this one wants to paint it red and this one wants to paint it blue. some of those issues, until we can put our money in bridges instead of bombs, stop killing people all over the world with agendas that are corporate and not political, start putting money into our education system which we know is broken and we talk about it as somehow that's less damning than terrorism. if we worry they're going to get into our computers but we're not paying attention to the fact we're not getting nutrition of thought into our children's brains, we don't need the chinese or al qaeda to kill us, we are going to commit suicide. so i -- you know, i think rick santorum is a fanatic. that's just my opinion.

let him run for president and no matter who the president -- >> even though you disagree with him on these core issues, do you have more respect for somebody who like him, who at least is consistent on his principles, even if you don't agree with him, than somebody like a mitt romney, who has been a legendary flip-flopper, apparently changing his principle positions for political expediency. >> if you told me -- if rick santorum said, here's what i'm going to do, i'd be much more likely to believe him than many others. it's the reason i wouldn't support him. >> but do you have more respect for politicians at least true to themselves? >> this is again where words get into our conditioning. respect -- do i respect somebody who would sit beside me and tell me he wouldn't respect my daughter's choice, no, i don't think i would respect him. >> let's turn to haiti. everybody knows your commitment to haiti. it's been quite extraordinary.

i've spoken to many people who tell me details about the commitment you have there, the amount of time you spent there. no one's better placed to give a proper perspective where haiti is, having survived a catastrophic disaster. where are they now? >> in two years, they've gotten to the point where they were able to, against a lot of odds, select a leadership of the people. i think they have a decisive president. there's a kind of miracle that's been pulled off in the last two years, which is the same miracle you could just as fairly say was a disaster or too slow moving. but to go there, to have been there all this time, think back where it was two years ago, not only in terms of the beginning of the development of infrastructure, the clearing of roads, building of homes that's

begun, but also in this spirit of the people and the kind of -- and the kind of -- the way they've gotten over the trauma enough to be the leadership now. >> i think i asked you this last time, i will ask you again. it still fascinates me, why somebody like you, oscar winning superstar, not short of a few dollars, has no need to do this, and certainly not the amount of time you spent, what really motivates you, sean penn, to dedicate so much of your time to this cause? >> you know, i remember seeing an interview with paul newman many years ago, where he was asked, you know, what is it that's kept you in this marriage, in love with joanne woodward for all this time. he says, you know, the answer was something like, as it turns out, we're still in love with each other. as it turns out, i ended up in haiti at a moment where -- i didn't intend to stay there for

a long time, but at a moment, with a team of people who recognized gaps. we were very quickly learning about things we hadn't previously experienced and we saw that we could be useful. my organization now employees 1,000 people day, 300 permanent staff, and we're 95, 96% haitian, the staff. so i -- increasingly, i am a bystander, an observer in a haitian organization, that while an ngo, is really modelled to be moving towards absorbing itself into -- first of all, total haitian leadership and so on, but the training implementation that's going on- >> it's hard, isn't it? it was hard before this happened. it's tough battle. everyone salutes you, sean, for the stuff you do. i like the fact you are sounding more optimistic than the last time, the way the grass is growing.

let's have a break and talk movies. george clooney. we haven't talked about him yet. i want to know if you're jealous of him. you can be honest. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios.

will be giving away passafree copiesl? of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. he didn't just dip his toe into the humanitarian pool, he dove in headfirst and been swimming in there for the better part of the last two years.

wasn't a doctor, never ran an ngo, didn't speak the languages. it's been arduous and frustrating and dangerous. but his work has never waivered. >> sean penn with a humanitarian award. i mean, pretty nice words from george clooney. i would imagine you have fairly similar things to say about him. he's another actor who i think has shown real commitment to causes he believes in. >> yeah. i think he's an extraordinary guy. one of the few guys whose talent and intelligence earns him charm and wit. that's why, you know, he's so celebrated. he's put it all -- he's got the whole package. he's been very shrewd about his energies and where to put his focus on the things that he's committed himself to.

yeah, i admire him enormously. >> ever wake up and think, i wish i was george clooney? >> sure, don't we all? >> well, i do. >> i wish that i could keep my humor as well in difficult moments as i see george do. >> he's brilliantly cool isn't he? under pressure. >> and he's got a humility. he just doesn't take himself, that part of himself, which is the celebrity, and all of that, he refuses to take it seriously. >> do you think he has a chance for an oscar for "decendents." >> i've seen none of the movie, but from what i've heard on the street, he has a good chance. >> i thought it was a big departure from his normal stuff. >> and he has range as an actor. >> my mother saw it and loved it. i'm behind on my movies. >> what other tips does your

mother have? any best actress tips? >> she's very opinionated. so the tips are not that i can share here. >> so you don't see many movies? >> no. i haven't been seeing -- the last couple of years i haven't seen anything. i'm get the odd dvd, but no, i haven't seen much. >> what are you work on movie wise? >> i have some things that i'm playing with and some things i'm doing. right now it's scheduling around my new day job in haiti. >> it really is, isn't it? because the fact that it's such a short answer, for you at the peak of your acting powers. dreadful thing, how many scripts you get sent. but to have the willpower to say no to all of this stuff, to turn down $15 million offers and so on. i mean, this can't be easy? >> well, i think you're going a little high.

no, it is easy. there's an obligation here that isn't just a choice. it's very difficult to explain. i just feel if i could get everyone there to see it, to get what's happening there, to see the connection to the united states. this is a big challenge, to be able to explain, to articulate. we're look at a new environmental responsibility in this world. do we want manufacturing to come with a very small carbon footprint an hour and a half from miami or do we want it to

come from china? what's good for this country? it goes to something much deeper, it goes to the very thing that will expose why parents might be very, very committed to parents at large. very committed to saying i want my kids in school. i want you to do your homework. i want -- but really, so cut off and without the time to consider the kind of education that kids are getting. some of this comes from the disconnect of comfort. and i don't mean that everyone in america has money, nearly not. but there's comforts here that we do have to appreciate, for example. nch haiti, you get clean water and aspirin. muchless in an emergency room. you just wait to see if they die.

that culture intermingled with the consciousness here and the great strength that we still sdo have to offer a culture like that. we might just get our mojo back as a country. >> is there any room for love in your life? >> yes, there is -- you know, there's always room for love in a person's life. >> anyone in particular? >> well, i'm madly in love with my daughter and son. >> that wasn't quite what i was getting at. >> no, i understand that. i would not want b to bring focus or controversy on a person outside of this room. >> do i detect a certain little twinkle in your eye today? >> did you? >> yeah. >> fair enough. >> nothing you want to talk about? >> no. >> i wouldn't expect you to. keep fighting the fight. good to see you.

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tomorrow night, president obama delivers his third state of the union address and special coverage begins at 8:00 eastern. on wednesday i'll be back with exclusive interview with the one and only alec baldwin. request 309 rock" the politic, even the words with friends altercation on a plane. he's always po