the honey badger. the honey badger don't care, it just takes what it wants. >> honey badger don't care if it's an early spring or not. he's lool for a shadow when he's good and ready. >> that's it for us. well, there is a loophole that means everything to mitt romney. and a second day in violence in egypt in response to the deadly soccer riot falling apart in cairo tonight. leon panetta said this today. israel can attack iran this spring. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. "outfront" tonight, a burning question for mitt romney. today, he got an endorsement from donald trump. he was all smiles, but another day has gone by without an answer to a crucial question.

does mitt think we should pay more taxes? here are his returns. sorry, this is unwieldy. for 2009 and estimated for 2010 and '11. it turns out that 30% of mitt romney's income, $12.9 million comes from one very specific thing. in these tax years, 2010 and 2011. it's calling the carry. here's how it works. partners in private equity and hedge funds invest money for their clintss and clients and get a significant cut of the profits they make. this cut is taxed at 15%. not 35% like regular income. now, money people think it is right to reward people for investing money, for taking risks with a lower tax rate. they argue this encourages people to create jobs. but almost no one says it is right to award the guy what invests other people's money with a lower tax rate. after all, romney didn't take

the risk. someone else did. we're knocked down with opm. it's legal and he didn't do anything that isn't standard, but it's a loophole and adds up. mitt romney would have paid $4.5 million if the carry were taxed at ordinary rates. that is more than double the $1.9 million he paid. we called a lot of people in the industry to try to see if anyone could justify this loophole, which really affects private equity managers solely. outside the private equity lobbying groups, no one even tried. leon cooperman said this. it seems to me that a preferential tax rate should pertain to one's risk capital and reallocation should be earned income. a simple and straight forward opinion not worth a tv appearance. the burning question, where diz mitt romney stand on this issue?

when asked, he's kind of confusing. here he is with larry kudlow. >> i'm not looking to single out some group of people and say let's raise taxes. >> keep the carry. >> if it's actually a capital investment and it's fairly priced at the time people invest in it and then it rises in value as a capital gain, then you treat it as a capital gain. if you turn it into ordinary income or bonus, then it's not. >> yes. keep the carried interest, but no, not if it's ordinary income. governor romney, can you help me? we've asked the governor to come "outfront" because we want to hear more about his plans. the "outfront" strike team thinks hooe got the best in the republican field when it comes to an economic plan, but we hope the governor can take a stand on "outfront" when it comes to carried interest because this issue is not going away. david frum, gloria borger and michael, thanks to all of you for being with us.

david frum, let me start with you. this is tough. this is a loophole, fair and standard in his industry, that almost nobody really defends. michael bloomberg's come out against it. a lot of people. he has to take a position on it, doesn't he? >> no. he does not have to. the loophole was there. he used it. the longer he is talking about this, the less time he has for anything else. there is nothing he can say that will satisfy anybody, so -- >> okay. >> everybody comes to a campaign with strengths, vulnerableties. you talk about your strengths, things that are going to connect you to people and do not offer excuses for things in your past that other people may find difficult. you just soldier on and allow the voters to decide how important it is. >> what do you think, michael? can he soldier on or am i right in thinking that taxes are going to be more important in this

election than that? >> i think in some other year perhaps he could. but this isn't something like having a bad sense of humor or odd hair style or something like that. this is a core issue of public policy that existed before he was the republican front-runner and will continue to exist. the idea that there's something wrong with this particular loophole's been talked about for years and there's something very fundamental. president andrew jackson has this slogan. equal opportunity for all. special privileges for none. kind of basic idea and this people might see this as really hitting up against that. >> of course, bain capital, gloria, lobbies against closing this loophole. in fact, there have been seven attempts to close this in recent years. democrats and republicans together influenced by that private equity lobby have choosen not to do so. >> right. i think the wealth gap is going to be an issue. president obama said there ought to be a minimum 30% tax rate and

he's raised the buffett rule, so it's going to be there. but "the wall street journal" wrote something interesting the other week after romney's taxes came out and said look, there's a way that he could turn this around, erin, and that is to say use his own tax return as exhibit a and say you know what? this is why we need tax reform. why we need lower taxes. this is why we need flatter taxes and if you lower the corporate tax, then maybe you take away this loophole. >> interesting point because david frum, this is something mitt romney has indicated. he wants to close loopholes. this particular loophole, it's a loophole, so he could say i would close it. now, of course then, so say he does that. what's he left with? he's already got the benefit from it. >> he does not want to be talking about himself. it would be every candidate comes with these problems.

and bill clinton had problems. bill clinton did not -- bill clinton did not spend a lot of time reminding people of his problems, apologizing. he moved on and said let me tell you what i will do for you. one of my favorite stories, karen hughes tells this. walking down the beach seeing one of those planes. the slogan said jill, come back, i am miserable without you, jack. that slogan, jack, too much about you. not enough about her. >> jill, i love you, you're amazing, jack. >> but it's going to be raised any way. i agree with david in theory, but in practice, barack obama is clearly going to raise this one where another since romney seems so uncomfortable in talking about his own wealth, right? so, he has to have a plan ready

and say okay, let's make the case for reform. i didn't break any laws. you want to change them, let's just make it flatter. >> and by the way, that would mean people like me are going to pay more money and i'm for that, but i don't want to raise overall tax rates. he could thread that theed l. >> mitt romney could get out of this in some respects by proposing tax reform, a system that's more fair. anything he were to do that's like that, runs right up against the orthodoxy that's currently strong in the republican party that nobody's taxes should ever go up, which he repeated. until that hammer lock the sort of grover nor quis pledged mentality, he's going to be stuck with this. this is not occurring in a science lab in a vacuum. it's very popular, the public polls well. >> it seems to me he's going to be forced somehow to talk about

it. >> he can talk about it, but not in the context of himself. if you're offering a plan, don't apologize. don't look embarrassed. you didn't break the law. it was a coalition of democrats and republicans. >> i made that clear. chuck schumer among them. >> this is about the new york senatorial delegation more than anything else. >> president obama has to be careful here because when you look at the l polling of americans, they don't begrudge anybody their wealth. they like the fact people get wealthy in this country. what they want is fairness. so the president can't seem to be on an argument for class war fair. he's got to talk about fairness. that's a delicate balance he's got to strike as well. >> thanks to all three of you. come up with a tax plan that was creative and got rid of loopholes and maybe that might

do it. barack obama meanwhile is turning up the heat on a governor at a prayer breakfast. jesus. jesus apparently may be on obama's side. we're going to get to the bottom of that. and police and protesters clashing in egypt yesterday led to some horrible violence going on at this hour in central cairo and leon panetta said something pretty shocking today. israel attacking iran this spring. ow you don't wait until the end of the quarter to think about your money... ♪ that right now, you want to know where you are, and where you'd like to be. we know you'd like to see the same information your advisor does so you can get a deeper understanding of what's going on with your portfolio. we know all this because we asked you, and what we heard helped us create pnc wealth insight, a smarter way to work with your pnc advisor, so you can make better decisions and live achievement.

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violence in egypt tonight. in tahrir square, more than 600 injured following the deadly soccer match last night. it's unclear whether the riot started because of sports or political, but it is clear egyptian police stood by while fans attacked each other with rocks and weapons. ben, good to see you again. what's happening there right now? >> what we have at the moment is several hundred people have made it through. they've knocked down a barrier in one of the roads. they've clashed with security forces and made it basically to

the outside walls of the interior ministry. many of these protesters blaming the interior ministry and its security forces for not providing adequate security at the port said game, many accusing the minister for allowing it to happen. -- thugs who basically allowed this bloodshed to happen. >> you've had another day. yesterday, you said a lot of this was a result of the political upheaval, lack of control in cairo. any sense that's getting worse today? >> well, certainly what we're seeing is that the government is on the defensive, but one bright point today we saw that there was this emergency session of parliament to discuss the bloodshed and it was broadcast

live on egyptian television and we saw one deputy after the other get up and blast the government, blast the interior ministry, the supreme counsel of the armed forces for its mishandling in egypt in general given there's been a deterioration of security. egyptians were glued to their screen watching this because they like myself were accustomed to the parliament by mubarak where half of the deputies were asleep and the other half were just wasting time, so they are really seeing a vivid display of democracy at work, so that does show people there has been a change. there has been an improvement, but there's worries about security and the general state of political instability in the country. >> thank you very much. leave the glass a little bit full tonight.

now, the high stakes showdown against iran. there was a stunning prediction today from leon panetta. hit my in box, i said, really. he said he believes there is a quote strong likelihood that israel will strike iran in april, may or june of this year. now, the military operation would target iran's nuclear program. a program that israel and obviously many others including the united states is developing nuclear weapons. mike rogers, chairman of the house intelligence committee. good to see you, sir. appreciate it. do you have any sense of what leon panetta was saying in how significant his comment was? >> well, little surprised he was as aggressive in his talk as he was. we had lots of conversations in classified settings, a little taken back by how clear his preduction was. but one of the things about iran

is they're really pushing th envelope. we know they're aggressively pursuing a nuclear weapon program, facilities to ngome, which is difficult to get at militarily. we know their external operations have been in high gear, including political assassinations here in the united states, so what israel has to decide is what is our red line? what is the line that iran crosses where we say we can't have that happen. it's too dangerous. a middle east nuclear arms race is israel, for the region and dangerous for us. that's what i think all of this talk is right now about where israel is. >> and would you support an israeli strike on iran? >> i think a unilateral strike by israel is not helpful. it takes middle east allies to the united states and makes them have to oppose israel.

it comes with a pretty high cost. now, we have a defense treaty that will support israel if they're attacked and we will live up to that. i would hope that we could do this if necessary to try to slow the program, sanctions are taking hold. the u.s. congress passed tough sanctions. >> right. of course. >> that's really starting to take hold. the one thing that's miss r here, we're not sure if iran really believes when the administration says everything is on the table. if we can make them believe everything is on the table with sanctions, meaning the possibility of military strikes, that could be the thing that tips us over and backs them down. >> it sounds reasonable, although interesting david sanger at "the new york times" has talked about how in election year, we always hear the rhetoric turn up on iran. here's a quick sense of what i mean this year and other election years. >> we cannot tolerate a nuclear iran. it would with a game changer. >> that old beach boys song bomb

iran. >> whatever stage of development they might be in their nuclear weapons program in the next ten years during which may might foolishly consider launching an attack on israel, we would be able to obliterate them. >> that was 2008. sort of sounds like we're hearing that again. has the threat just changed or is this just hey, election year, iran. >> one thing we've learned is that mccain can't sing. >> join the crowd. >> exactly. the one thing that concerns me is iran has made steps to become a nuclear weapon state. this is different than election year rhetoric mainly because the president has been really behind this. the u.s. congress pushed him to do sanctions. we have been arguing that you can't let israel get to their

red line so that they unilaterally launch an attack and right now, they look back and aren't sure where the united states is and that's what this big unknown causes uncertainty and i think that's why you see so many people are just so nervous about what happens in the next few months. >> thanks so much. appreciate you taking the time to be with us. a man returns home from his honeymoon alone, charged with murder. his wife's murder. and the super bowl just days away. all because so many people wanted to visit us... in louisiana. they came to see us in florida... nice try, they came to hang out with us in alabama... once folks heard mississippi had the welcome sign out, they couldn't wait to get here. this year was great but next year's gonna be even better. and anyone who knows the gulf knows that winter is primetime fun time. the sun's out and the water's beautiful. you can go deep sea fishing

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so, i remember when my older sister made me my first mixed tape. gave it to me on my seventh birthday, then took me to the beach. that's how i first heard celebration by cool and the gang and heard my first madonna song. the material girl is still getting it done. in the past few months, she's built schools, started a feud with elton john, directed a movie, that was such a good song. she recorded an album, too. and tonight, she premiers her new music video on "american idol." this weekend, she's going to be playing the halftime show at the super bowl. which brings us to tonight's number. 555. according to nielsen's song scan, songs played during the super bowl have enjoyed a 55%

increase in sales the week after the game. past performers also saw a 478% increase in sales of their albums. madonna is expected to play six songs including "vogue," "like a prayer" and "ray of light." still "outfront," the "outfront 5." what would jesus do? >> for me as a christian, it also coincides with jesus' teaching for whom much is given, much is required. honeymoon death. >> the one thing we're focused on is seeing justice. >> all this "outfront" in our second half. sizzling ]

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we start the second half with stories we care about and focus on our reporting and find the "outfront 5." first, mitt romney scored an endorsement from donald trump. does mitt think he should pay more taxes? 30% of romney's income in the past two years came from carried interest. paid a 15% tax rate on that legal and standard, but many call that tax rate on carry a big loophole.

today, leon cooperman told "outfront" that it should be taxed at an ordinary rate. romney has not said whether he thinks the loophole needs to go. number two, members of the house and senate met to discuss the payroll tax cut. the panel of 20 discussed smaller panel issues. the clock's ticking. >> but the little secret that all 20 of us know that most don't know is that we really don't have -- in the house, we have no more than 13 legislative days left before the end. >> the secret is out. 13 working days left to reach a deal on a tax cut that would save most americans about $1,000 a year. number three, the 30-year fixed rate mortgage, this is unbelievable.

3.87%. 30-year fixed mortgage, the 15-year fix is down to 3.14. holy cow. we look at the numbers and compared them to a year ago. homeowners now save about $50 for every $100 borrowed. one with about a $300,000 loan would save about $2,000 a year. the prop is qualifying. four, initial jobless claims dropped by 12,000. 367,000 now is number. experts say it is an improvement in the job market. someone told us they think it's going to go up. 8.6%. others think it's going to go down to 8.4. right now, it's 8.5%. it has been 181 days since america lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? today, ben bernanke told congress the pace of economic

recovery has been frustratingly slow. he also warned that we need a credible plan for cutting the deficit in this country. sadly, the super committee that was supposed to cut the deficit in november didn't. as a result, america is facing $1.2 trillion in automatic spending cuts next year. 500 billion from the pentagon's budget on top of $487 billion from their budget. that adds up to serious money and today, top senate republicans tried to spare the military by proposing a plan to freeze federal worker's salaries and freeze the federal workforce instead. >> we could take the whole defense department budget and take into account off the table and still not get us out of debt, but if you did that, not only would you not achieve financial solvency, you would render us inektive threats that we face. >> democrats say no way, so wait, ground hog day again.

oh, yeah, there he is. he is a fat, cute little thing. and it is ground hog day for real. it's like he's posing. nose is sticking out. comes "outfront." i'm not talking about you, sir. he was kind of preening there for the cameras today. we make light of this issue in terms of the parties, but i know you voted and you did it so that the super committees would do their jobs. is a deal a deal? we should go ahead with these automatic cuts? >> i don't think there's anybody who wants to have our military guided and the select committee did fail to do their job. i understand senator mccain and others filed a bill to step back and strategically address these concerns. senator mccain's a mentor of mine. i look forward to reading the

bill. now we have to move on to the coastal bill and we'll be working on this as well. your parties proposed sparing the defense cuts and instead, freezing federal pay and cutting the workforce by about 5%. regardless of that, the numbers are about $127 billion in savings over ten years, which is eight tenths of a p percent of our current debt. doesn't the idea need to be bolder? >> well, listen, ths there's going to be a loft ideas. we need to do a lot to step back from our debt and deficit, but we're not doing really a whole heck of a lot right now. that's why the select committee missed that opportunity and we have to go in and work together because we are americans first. we need to work together to step back from our debt and deficit and the increasing numbers we're seeing. when i got down here, it was $11.9 trillion. up to 15.3 and raising and we need to move quickly or we're going to end up like some of

these european countries. >> a bill passed that you've championed. this is the stock act. stock trading on congressional knowledge. something that seems like common sense to a lot of americans. first question is, basically, means you're not allowed to use information from congress to profit. makes it a crime. >> same as every other american lives by that. you can't use insider information for personal profit. you're right. >> it is pretty simple. but let me ask you about this amendment that didn't go through. this is something i've never understood. so, if you are on the banking committee and you are overseeing the rules on say bank of america, you're still allowed to own shares in bank of america. i don't understand that. >> i voted for that amendment, i know committee members are going to look into those things, but so i don't know what to say. it's my bill.

it's a stronger bill than it went in being. i want to commend obviously the leader and the president for obviously pushing it forward and senator lieberman and collins and i marshalled it and senator gillibrand, so it's a good, strong bill and i challenge the house to get a bill out soon so i can get a bill to the president's desk by the end of this month. >> why do you think people voted down that amendment? you voted for it. that's clear, but why would that not have passed? i don't get it. >> i don't know. as i said, i voted for it and there are other amendments that failed and others that succeeded, so we need to obviously get over to the house, see what they're going to do and get it through the committee. this is a victory for the people of america. i sit in what i consider the people's seat and right now, we need to help reestablish the trust between the american people and the members of congress and the fact that i saw the 60 minutes piece, filed it.

we got this done within 90 days and you were just talking about the gridlock. this was record time. it was a full and fair and open amendment process. it was a good day in the united states senate and i'm very thankful that we've taken a little step to move forward to reestablishing that trust. >> thanks very much. good to see you. >> one more thing. go, patriots. >> i picked them. i picked them, which is -- i hear screaming and getting angry. >> you should. that's right. yes, okay. go, pats. >> get ready for my security detail when you come to new york. what would jesus text? this is a real question today because the president at a prayer breakfast in washington this morning raised the very issue. >> i think to myself, if i'm willing to give something up to someone who's been extraordinarily blessed, give up some of the tax breaks that i

enjoy, i think that's going to make economic sense, but for me as a christian, it also coincides with jesus' teaching that for unto whom much is given, much shall be required. >> all right. just how much is required from those who are given much? "outfront" now, former director of the congressional budget office -- good to have you with us. jamal, let me start with quou. >> of course you want to start with me. >> i do. i want to ask you what you think of the politician bringing up jesus -- >> yeah, you know, i'm not that in favor of it. i think as progressives, many of us who are more center left, many of us have said republicans spent too much time infusing religion in their policy arguments. the president is on really safe ground talking about the fairness argument. as a christian, i agree with him on theological grounds. i just don't think the president

of the united states should be making those arguments, that those of us outside the government, i want government and religion to be separate. >> church and state, separate. shouldn't have gone there? >> i think it's a legitimate point, but i think the president wasn't giving jesus enough credit. one way of thinking about people is that you care about inputs. you're showing you care by spending more money. another way is by delivering results. funny thing about america since 1970 is that we have tripled the amount of money on public school students. that sounds great. tripled the amount of money. hoo ray. we care more, but the graduation rate has gone down by 5%. we're spending more money and doing a worse job. so the issue is not hey, let's get people to pay more taxes. the issue is, hey, isn't something broken here? we want to uplift. that's the real problem. and i think jesus would think gosh, we're not doing a really

good job of helping those who are downtrodden with this government so why will we focus on how to extract more money from folks creating jobs. middle class folks who are going to be taxed. >> i must say, i do feel somewhat uncomfortable talking about jesus in a prime time show. all right. there, you said it. not me. okay. doug, let me just ask you this. >> it's now down to me? >> i would say hot potato. >> every graduate program in economics has a course called what would jesus do. it doesn't include the buffett rule. obviously, majority of americans support taxing the wealthy, so there is that. people agree with the concept here, whether the use of jesus makes them uncomfortable or not. if he does that, how much money

gets raised? >> it's on the order of $35 billion a year. to gain a sense of the mana -- >> jamal, i want to ask you just to follow up on that. a guy named adam davidson was on the show last week. you taxed millionaires at 100%. you'd raise $700 billion in one year. they'd have no money left. if you increased taxes on everybody by 8%, it has a bigger impact than taxing millionaires at 100%. how do you get your arms around that issue that the middle class is part of the solution here? >> it does seem that in order to solve this problem, you're going to have a figure out a broad ta overhaul that makes sense. doug and some others look at the

30% millionaire tax, oh, it's only going to raise -- over ten years, but you know what? last year, the republicans who came into congress the tea party, they were looking for 50, $60 billion cuts out of the current budget, so it's the same. if you want to cut the budget by $50 billion, that's the same argument. both things are sort of equal to me. but i think ultimately, you've got to do a lot of things and you've got to grow the economy. i don't see a way out of this problem unless you do something on entitlements, spending cuts and taxes and grow the economy. just doesn't seem like the math works. >> final word quickly, doug. >> i think i agree. one of the reasons millionaires pay less -- it's a very misleading debate. some pay less because they contribute in other ways. in charity, by providing growth. tax policy has lots of objectives. i think growth should be number one right now.

>> thanks to all three of you. >> thank you. next, the latest development in a honeymoon murder. a man accused of killing his bride going on trial. and a woman who was rejected and again and again and again made millions by going it alone. for a limited time, passages malibu

will be giving away free copies of the alcoholism & addiction cure. to get yours, go to ssagesmalibubook.com. it was supposed to be the adventure of a lifetime, newlyweds from alabama on a honeymoon, a scuba diving trip to the great reef. less than two months after they were married, tena's life came to a gruesome end. what it shows is what prosecutors say is tena's body in the background, it's in that circle as we pan out, lifeless on the ocean floor, gabe, her husband and diving buddy said it was tragic accident. investigators did not he now faces capital murder charges, his trial begins next week.

he he's out front tonight. good to see you, thanks for coming on. i want to just show everyone that haunting freshman again, gabe was a certified rescue diver, which is part of the reason people -- there was suspicion here in the first place. went to the service instead of staying with her when she was in desperate need of help. why did he do that? >> gabe's classification of a certified rescue diver has been much overblown. gabe took a crash course four years before this fatal dive which taught him some basic retrieval and safety things and he got a slip of paper that said he was a rescue diver. he had -- he wasn't the guy that

someone could he wasn't a rescue diver, he made a split decision when his wife panicked and started to sink to find an expert, find somebody who could help and he went to the surface. the man had no intent to kill his wife. but some would ask why would he plead guilty to taking his wife's life then? >> he didn't plead guilty to taking her life. he pled guilty to being a bad dive buddy and the highest courts in australia determined that he did nothing intentional to cause her death, he just simply made a split second decision to leave her and to get help at the surface. he pled guilty to what he did, and that was he left her. >> all right, so i guess

abandonment is what you're saying. tena's family obviously has made it very clear that they think that gabe murdered her. listen to this. >> until that day comes, before he actually faces a jury for the fist time, there can be no peace for anyone in our family. their blame of gabe is absolutely misplaced. the investigation in australia was fraught with problems, it started off on the wrong foot by bungling investigators. they actually convinced the family that there was some foul play here. >> you've known gabe for a long time. is it possible that you were obviously convinced of his

innocence that he could be hiding something from you? >> i have no doubt in my mind that he's innocent. he's a guy's guy. he's a sweet guy, he's a teddy bear. he's been described by his friends as just that, he's the guy that you call when you need something. he's doing the very best he can with these allegations that have been hanging over his head for nine years now, almost nine years. he's remarried to a lovely woman who is a school principal. they have a wonderful relationship, a healthy relationship. and there's nothing to indicate that he's a devil that did this. >> all right, thank you very much for coming out. >> thank you. >> a writer rejected over and over and over and over again until she finally comes one the one idea that vindicated here and helped her make millions. she comes out front next.

this was the gulf's best tourism season in years. all because so many people wanted to visit us... in louisiana. they came to see us in florida... nice try, they came to hang out with us in alabama... once folks heard mississippi had the welcome sign out, they couldn't wait to get here. this year was great but next year's gonna be even better. and anyone who knows the gulf knows that winter is primetime fun time. the sun's out and the water's beautiful. you can go deep sea fishing for amberjack, grouper and mackerel. our golf courses are open. our bed and breakfast have special rates. and migrating waterfowl from all over make this a bird watcher's paradise. so if you missed it earlier this year, come on down. if you've already been here come on back... to mississippi... florida... louisiana... alabama. the gulf's america's get-a-way spot no matter where you go. so come on down and help make 2012

an even better year for tourism on the gulf. brought to you by bp and all of us who call the gulf home.

there's a pretty good chance you have never heard of tonight's idea guest, she was a college dropout, making less than 18,000 a year, using her free time to write love stories about magical trolls. but no traditional publish her wanted amanda hawkings stories. so she posted her paranormal stories online as an e-book. within six months, amanda sold 150,000 copies, total profit,

$250,000. tonight she has a hollywood movie deal and her first book switched condition found in her hometown library. amanda came out front and some say completely changed the industry that rejected her. tell me how you got through incredible set back, right? then you submitted your book a lot of times. then you got a rejection. >> i kind of stepped back from writing for a couple of years, you give yourself time and you start thinking about other things and i kind of got over it and i realized that i want to

write and i need to do this. >> what made you decide to publish e-books. >> i had tried the traditional books and i wasn't getting anywhere. i was going everything i could and i wasn't really making any head way. and then in early 2010 i heard got authors having success with e-books. i thought i would try it out. >> use oar an entrepreneur and a self starter. a lot of people look at you and say you are proof that there's a new model, we don't need old style publishers anymore, why? >> the self publishing aspect of it was taking up so much of my time whenner wanted to be writing more books. there's a lot of people that just aren't into e-mails. i wanted to get the best quality

e-book that i could and i think st. marks is the way to do that. >> when did you realize you were a hit? >> in mid 2010, i sold over 400,000 books. and it was kind of like this insane, crazy moment when i saw it didn't make any sense, it was kind of mind-boggling and it was really, really taking off. >> this is the big leagues. are you going to stick with the trolls i have a book coming out about sirens. >> sirens like the ones that sang in tempt you. >> there's still some twists to it.