as the economy recovers, are you getting left behind? welcome to "your money," i'm ali velshi. the nasdaq is at the highest close in more than a decade. the economy has added jobs. that's the most important thing. for 17 straight months, more than two million jobs in the year alone. gas prices have been soaring,

the cost of living rising. some americans may be feeling left out of this recovery. diane is a chief economist. as gas prices have increased over the past month, the president's approval level has decreased. there's been really nothing else that might have caused this. there's a clear breakdown based on where americans fall in the chee. your thoughts? let me show you a poll first. a new york times poll shows those making more than $100,000 a year, the president's rating has reed relatively flat. are you suggesting they don't feel the pain at the gas pump. those making 30 to $50,000 a year, the approval rating dropped by 16 points. is this a clear illustration that we have two americas on two very different recovery tracks? >> i think we have at least two americas on two recovery tracks. there is a very big difference between those at the high-income

strata and what you feel they are insensitive to and those at the low-income of the strata are not only having to deal with the prices day in and day out, most major cities don't have it as an alternative and in fact i know people that have had to turn down a job because the cost of the gasoline alone is more than they would earn. >> a cnn contributor, willamett there may be more than one sentiments but how does this play out? >> the legitimate reason is to begrudge the president for how he handles the economy. how quickly they have recovered.

that being said, it's virtually certain it's not just industrial loans. yet some people with the economy, in short term polling suggests that. just over the last month the numbers have gone down. should the president hold him responsible for gas prices? no. i welcome you to do that. look how they've handled the recession overall but the short term is nonsense. >> roland martin is a cnn contributor. there are counties in america that have faced persistent poverty levels for decades. they get -- they've been hit worse off in this recession. but we want to talk about solutions and you recently spoke to representative james clyburn about the clyburn amendment which he thinks could be implemented in other programs

that reduce chronic poverty. let's listen to this. >> it is called the clyburn amendment. 10, 20, 30. i believe all of these resources coming out of these programs, at least 10% of it ought to be directed into these communities where 20% or more of the population is stuck below the poverty level for the last 30 years. >> so if we're talking about two americas or more, this idea -- this is james clyburn's idea, to try and at least give the worst off in america a leg up. what do you think of this idea? >> first of all, i love the idea and i was a little upset that when he told me i hadn't heard about it in the last three years. he said there was a stimulus bill put into effect in 2009. when you talk about poverty in this country, we have to be honest. a lot of people out there think of african-american and hispanics. the reality is, according to their research, there are 474 of

those counties. two-thirds are republican counties largely white. one-third in democrat and so when people here poverty, the less fortunate, people who are poor white and hispanic, native americans and what he's saying is, let's target them with the resources. and what i think what should happen, president barack obama should be sounding this and saying, we should make this a part of all of our appropriations when it comes to grants and the cabinet departments as well because we can't keep saying rising tide, lift all boats if the people in these poor counties are always left behind. >> this is back full circle to the beginning of our conversation, diane. there is very clearly a rising tide in america. we have seen that for a lot of months now. it's very clearly not lifting the boats. is there an effective way as an

economist that you see that we can disproportionately lift the boats at the lowest end, the poorest boats, so we share this recovery more evenly and people feel better? >> it's one of the most difficult things to do and certainly a compassionate thing to do and something that i understand. that said, over the long haul, the only way to fundamentally change the poverty situation relative to the rest of the economy is education. and education is critical and funding for education takes time. it means funding for children being educated and to have preschool education, food before they go to school and at school. so all of these things are important. there's a lot of different aspects of poverty that need to be dealt with in order to deal with the whole poverty problem in general and i think that's something that not that many people pay attention to. even though it might be mostly white americans and many of them

republicans at that, a lot of them still don't vote because they don't even have the time to do that given the lives that -- >> ali, i agree. >> roland, hold on. we were talking about education. diane is talking about education because it leads to better unemployment or lower unemployment and the suggestion that james clyburn has got. hold on all three of you. we want to continue this conversation. we also just learned this week how secure your bank would be in the event of another downturn. we want to find out whether the financial system is more secure than it was three years ago. we're going to continue this conversation and look at the banking system next on "your money."

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talking about how americans are not feeling the recovery. roland, i know you are chomping at the bit to get in here. i'm going to make you squirm a little bit more because will has something to say about this. >> i know roll laand is going t want to speak. the american experience suggests otherwise. the very, very long-term view is that our whole economy is based on that concept and it has worked. over the medium term, the last 40 years or so, diane has a very interesting point because people have been left behind. charles murray has written about this. education has to be the answer to that. finally, in the very short term, i'm curious as we see an economy on the road to recovery, some people are not catching up to it, is that how recoveries work? and then later, lower income spectrums -- >> diane, is that the experience? >> actually, it's not. it's the experience of this particular recovery and it's dramatically different than this particular recovery than other recoveries. we've seen the recovery of the

1980s took a long time to get below 8% on the unemployment rate and once we did there were cumulative effects that we felt for decades where graduates had lower learning potentials if they got a job while the unemployment was still 8%. that said, the recovery of the 1980s had jobs, 500,000, 600,000 jobs. >> right. >> a month being generated and the unemployment rate was falling rapidly and i think that's very important because we have a very long retraction and a slow recovery. you have a very different dynamic of the long-term unemployed and impoverished. and maybe the cumulative effects there, we can only guess them but it looks like they could be much greater. >> roland, we've talked about these, how you bring these two

americas closer together, how you help the worst of the worst out, those really suffering and not participating and those getting hurt the hardest by the increasing gas prices. your thoughts? >> i think the point speaks to resources and i totally agree. look, i'm a huge education advocate. i believe in charter schools, publicly, online, i don't care, you name it. but that is really an 18, 22, 25-year process. i think the point here is, you are targeting resources. what do we do, though? that is the poor, they don't have lobbyists in washington, d.c. when you talk about the ability to school lunches and those types of things, it's a perfect example of targeting 10% of the resources and making sure that they are not left out. that, to me, is a problem. and to will's point short-term, look at the income gap.

i think we have to own up to the fact that poor people have no voice in this country and i believe the president should step up and say, this is an effort that is not race-based, politically-based, it's income and need-based so people can make a substantive change. >> let me change topics here. we've been watching the banks through this recovery. the economy may feel a little better as we've discussed some people out there. what if the following happened. what if unemployment soared back to 13%, higher than what we ever got to. what if stock prices were cut in half and housing prices fell another 20%? not something people think is likely to happen but that is the scenario that the federal reserve used in this past week as a stress test for 19 of the country's largest banks. those are called systemically-important banks.

if they failed, they would cause massive problems in the economy. 15 of the nine largest financial firms are prepared for that situation. roland and will, does this give you confidence that we are better off before the financial crisis because some of them didn't. although some say it does. >> it depends. we had 200 regulators inside of fannie and freddie that caught nothing. we're good at looking at potential problems. that's why some people, on all sides of the political spectrum said if you're too big to risk. >> i think the problem is when you have commercial banks that are also investment banks. you saw all of the discussion this week over this goldman sachs executive talking about how profit and making money is still more important than the client's interest, i think we

need to roll some things back. i do not believe that the systemic change that was needed to repair wall street has taken place and as long as they still are able to do what they did beforehand, we're going to come back to this problem. so i say separate them and i'm sorry, you want to make more money, there's a way to do it but you cannot continue to have commercial banks and investment banks because they are going to be clashing when it comes to the interest of the consumers. >> a lot of people share that view. diane, your thought on the stress tests and what they mean? >> they certainly were stressful and i think they do actually exhibit that the banks are in better shapes now than they were and they are in better shape because we help them to get in shape. that was called the t.a.r.p. it helped the banks get back on track. i think what is also very important, the banks are in better financial shape to endure what could be a sect dairy crisis in europe which is one of

the reasons why we wanted to have the stress test now. the other issue is we don't have a shadow banking system. most consumers got all of their credit from them, particularly their mortgages. even though they are in better shape than they were once, they don't provide credit to consumers. for good reason. it's much harder for many people to get a mortgage when they are credit worthy. credit capacity has been cut back among the banks and they are penalized. they are doing less with it with the $25 billion settlement and how they are doing foreclosures. we're worried about that as we look to see the housing market recover. >> can't do that if there's not capital. >> that's right. you're absolutely right. what a great conversation always with the three of you. roland, pleasure to see you. diane swan, thank you for joining us. >> well, the growth of business in this country is directly tied to the success of the recovery and just what has the obama administration done or not done

for business in this country? we're going to get down to it. is it an oon tie or pro-business president? next on "your money." ers didn't. so why do banks do it ? hello ? hello ?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7, you need an ally. hello ? ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense.

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vice president biden campaigning in ohio made the case that the president supports business. >> our philosophy, values the middle class and success of the economy and they are about protecting the privileged. >> the most recent book, presidential for leadership, 15 decisions that changed the nation. as you've looked back at american presidents, how does president obama -- not withstanding the criticism from will cain.

how does that work? >> presidents don't really have that control over the economic cycle. we'd like to think they do and over long periods of time and we tend to look at pro con and teddy roosevelt, one could argue he's more about left right growth versus fairness. >> what do you think, will? >> hostages of the business cycle, that doesn't begrudge us the ability to look into them to see if they are pro or

anti-business. barack obama wants to create jobs. i think he knows that businesses play a vital role in that process. a deeper instinctual, i think he's anti-business. when i watch his economic policies and how he hopes to invest in this energy, green energy, it reflects that essential value which is a lack of humility that you think you have more control over something than you already do. it deflected his instincts. >> and then a year later we devoted entirely too much to debt reduction when in fact in both instances jobs would have been the thing to do. >> you're talking about the republicans. >> his book was about 15 specific leadership choices and

decisions. >> right. >> not just 15 presidents but things that happened. do you feel that that was a -- that failure to focus on jobs and instead focus on health care, to be his legacy, was a decision that suggested that his priorities are not pro business? >> no, not really. if you look at it, health care is 18% of our gdp and growing. >> it's not necessarily a good thing? >> no, it could not. i disagree on one point which is targeted subsidies is something that all presidents have been doing. the auto industry, one could argue, we could have lost a lot of jobs. all of the ancillary businesses. presidents have been doing that for years and years and years. there's nothing knew at that. it's just priorities. >> will? >> that might be a fair criticism but we've seen a

disordinate. maybe at the distinction. and businesses are small business, 5 people, ten people, and small business and this campaign, i think you heard the vice president, is more about middle class small business and they want to know what you are doing on the ground to give a

different tax rate and pro market and pro business inside the manufacturing industry and it's not pro economic position. >> you're not saying that you think president obama is anti-business? >> no, he's not the only one. >> look at president clinton. he led to the largest growth since world war ii. >> right. >> you could argue is there a cause and effect relationship. >> it's a nice conversation to have. we all rent space in the economic cycle. great, guys. it's a great read. presidential leadership. the forward to the book is great. will cain, thanks. a goldman sachs employee told his employer to take this

job and shove it. are you still sleeping? just wanted to check and make sure that we were on schedule.

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any headline involving goldman sachs tends to get notice. it should come as no surprise when a company executive quit his job, it made big news. the former golden vp greg smith calls the company's culture toxic and destructive. he offered solutions to fix the giant. weed out the morally bang republican people. christine romans is here, host of "your bottom line." goldman has never really cared about pr, at least in recent years. is there any expectation that this high-profile resignation is going to lead to changes?

>> can you believe that a guy we never even heard of a few days ago, it came from size, from somebody nobody expected and went off like a bomb inside goldman headquarters. here's a guy that has a resume pretty sterling. he used to run the interns. he looks like he's on the straight and narrow, and we don't know what sparked this. it doesn't matter what we think, it matters what the clients think. that's always been the most important thing for goldman, what its clients think. >> richard quest is the host of quest means business. i want to read you a quick excerpt from a letter quickly sent to goldman employees from

ceo lloyd blankfein. >> we are far from perfect but where the firm has seen a problem we've responded to it seriously and we've demonstrated that i have to wonder about this greg smith that wrote this op ed. was he living under a rock? >> there are two distinct looks, the big bad goldman and the place should be turned into a not for profit charity and do good work in the community and hallelujah, they head into the distance. and then there is the argument that goes, as is in the financial times columnists this week, that says the people who sit at the table with goldman are not widows and orphans, usually, they are although risk

taking gamblers in the market and all clients are not equal in that sense. most of the clients are traders and on the other side of the deals they do not need protecting against. now, where do i stand in this? somewhere in the middle. because on the one hand, goldman is perhaps perceived to be the biggest of the bad but fram, fr, if you are doing a deal, you want them on your side and you go into this with open eyes and you're not some naive who doesn't know what is happening, ali. >> well, goldman sachs -- and, remember, this guy that resigned had been there for 12 years. goldman sachs has endured a lot of negative pr and the anti-goldman sachs forces had to have a spokesperson, here he is.

matt taibbi. jamming into anything that smells like money. he really said this. did anything in the resignation letter surprise you? >> no, it did not. it was also in the levin report. >> it came after the hearings on capitol hill, the subpoenas of the fabulous fab. >> right. >> and lloyd blankfein, very heated reports. >> and those hearings and that report was entirely what smith was talking about, which was that goldman was selling out its own clients and they den grated

them when smith talked about money, in the levin report they were trying to unload limberwolf and they said we found a flying pig and white unicorn all at once. >> this is when goldman would make fun of clients when they took advantage of them? >> yes. what is different is that this was somebody from the company coming out with this information. >> goldman has a huge settlement with the s.e. krrk, right? >>. >> even the levin reports talked about other deals. >> all right. hang on all of you. if they are so dreadful and they are so awful, why do so many

people still use them? why do so many clients still go to them? they are not some blinded children walking into the garden of eden. >> so oh then back to matt on this. basically you appointed that goldman could be creepy and unethical and as richard points out and we know sometimes their clients can be creepy and unethical. should the rest of us care? >> i think we should care. if that's the defense of the bank, everybody knows that they are creepy and unethical, if that's as good as it gets, that speaks very poorly. >> even in the letter i felt like it was legalese.

>> he said, i'm not saying anything illegal happened here. i'm just saying it was toxic. >> it is going to be a six month to six year to ten-year job to turn around a perception like that. if they started, you and i will be talking about the results of that. >> do you think they've started? do you think they care? >> i think what the smith resignation points to is they haven't changed. he even talks about that in the op ed which is what was most striking to him is that they didn't change after all of this negative publicity. >> i want to know what happens to greg smith. i don't know. >> it will be interesting. >> as richard says, they may not lose any clients over it.

matt, always good to see it. christine romans, host of "your bottom line" and, of course, richard quest. u.s. health care being by far the most expensive in the world, are you getting the best health care in the world? fareed zakaria stops by next. the bundler. let's say you need home and auto insurance. you give us your information once, online... [ whirring and beeping ] [ ding! ] and we give you a discount on both. sort of like two in one. how did you guys think of that? it just came to us.

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health care in america is the costliest in the world but is it the best? not according to a report that ranked the u.s. dead last in a study that included seven nations. the report looked at factors, such as quality of care and access to care but look at the cost. if you combine the per capita, per person costs of the top two nations on this list the netherlands in the united states, the challenge here in the united states is not a good one. improving the quality of care while lowering the costs and expanding coverage to all of those people who don't have it. it's why fareed zakaria is devoting his first special of the year to laying out a road map to saving health care. it's sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern. you've searched for a solution to this health care issue to try

to map that on to the united states. what have you found? >> in taiwan, which is a free market country with a free enterprise system, they had a totally free market health care system. they asked themselves, we want to go from scratch and we asked the guy who designed the health care system and there was really nothing because our system and hospitals are private, doctors are private, but you have a single government-sponsored insurer, in other words, medicare. >> right. paid for by tax dollars? >> paid for by tax dollars. not surprisingly, they have the lowest health care costs in the world. they are among the best in tems of the outcomes but only spent 7% of their economy on health

care. we spent 17%. >> we're going to take a look at a chart which shows the steady increase in per capita spending on health care in the united states or a share of gdp. let's put it that way. starting around 5% in the '60s up to the 17, 18% that we have right now. let's say, some people think market-based systems work best where there is competition and some of the most efficient health care systems in the world are single payer. whether you want that to be a socialized system, or like you described in taiwan, one payer that has the ability to control costs through negotiations. square that circle for me. >> health care is a very weird field. there was a nobel prize winning predicted health care wouldn't work on regular economics. here's the reason why. you don't know when you need to

buy health care and at the moment you need it, a heart attack, a stroke a. hip replacement, you don't have that much money. so you can't -- the normal market can't function. you need an insurance system of some kind. >> right. >> now, of course, it's possible for you to say, well, look, the market would work if you were to just say you had a heart attack, you can't afford it. sorry. you die. but every rich country in the world has decided that's not how we want to run things. we want to give people some basic access and once you make that decision, you have to have an insurance system. you talk very correctly about the issue of access and costs. what i found is that every other system in the world found, in order to bring down costs, you have to have universal coverage because otherwise you have a downward spiral in insurance where basically the insurers try to kick all of the sick people off the system. >> and kick the healthy people on. >> and they don't want to buy insurance. it's a weird game where search trying to game the system.

>> the countries that take the money out of taxes, by doing so, that means everybody pays into the system, sick or healthy. here in the united states, that's the part that's under challenge at the supreme court. the idea that this administration's health care reform plan wants to compel people to buy insurance. in the same way that taiwan taxes, in the same way that canada taxes or the uk taxes. >> we actually have a perfect example and we talk about this in the program. switzerland 20 years ago had exactly the system that we do. a very free market country. switzerland ranks higher on the freedom of economics. 20 years ago they were having all of the problems that we are, the ones talking b. healthy people don't want to buy it, sick people get thrown off by the insurance companies. so they went for an individual mandate. pretty much reformed the system along obamacare lines. the result is huge customer

satisfaction. i can't speak to the constitution issues but every system has found that if you don't create some kind of either individual mandate or as you say a simple system, the model can't work because you have to bring everybody in to spread the costs, to spread the risks and then you work on the really tough part, which is cost control. >> sure. >> and that means you've got to have somebody. you can call it what you will. you've got to have some board of experts saying, this is covered by insurance. >> right. >> and this is not. >> again, that is something that happens in many countries. >> every other country. >> where a 93-year-old person in the hospital with a terminal illness is not deemed to be chronically ill. there are decisions made about whether it's worth spending. we spend most of our health care money in the last months of life, the last year of life. >> right. the two crazy statics about health care, 5% of patients

account for 50% of the costs. so when people say, high deductible plans will work, no they won't because it's in the chronically ill, who would be covered by catastrophic insurance or anything. and the second part is, we fight death. >> yes. >> most societies at some point accept it and at the end of the day, nobody is saying you can't at 93 get that second hip replacement. the point is, insurance won't pay for it. >> right. >> at that point, you can do what you want. the point is, your insurance program can't pay for it. otherwise the whole system goes bust. >> you're prepared for the fact that you and i are going to get hate tweets about, this right? >> you know, what i've tried to do is ground this in fact. the whole argument against government involvement ignores the facts that we have huge government involvement. >> remember the objections to obamacare, government get your hand off my medicare. >> right. and secondly, there is some

fantasy theoretical version of health care that they talk about. but, you know, i'm a practical guy. what i say is, you can reason from principle but you've also got to reason from facts and reality. we have 20 other countries in the world that do this. all of them are able to do it better and substantially cheaper than us so to me it feels like the task is not to jump all of this but some utopia in any human society. we have a messy reality with the government and markets working together. let's fix it. >> that is the role that you have played for us. things that work and hopefully we can try some of them here. i'm looking forward to the fareed zakaria special that airs on sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. well, you know will i. am but there is a range and devotion to doing his part to help creation and innovation in this country. i'll sit down with will i. am

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one thing i love about my job is the ability to talk to smart people. recently i went to an event in los angeles for singularity university. it is designed to supplement traditional colleges and universities, their goal is to inspire the development of technologies that will address some of the strong challenges that we face. now this is a highly competitive program. only 80 students were accepted for the graduate course from a pool of 1600 applicants. i often run into personalities you might recognize. in this case, will.i.am. what you may not know about the music star he is went to a science oriented high school and he is quite the tech geek. he is the creator of intel's creative innovation. he supports the wouldn't it be cool if innovation contest for kids and he is in charge of a

contest for kids and volunteers at events like nasa's curiosity spacelab. now he has teamed up with the segue inventor for a program called first. listen. >> i've always been, you know, attracted and inspired by science. music is math. >> i was talking to will.i.am about how you met. he went to your place and he was seeing your inventions and you said, wow, i'm sitting here chilling can dean cayman. >> he is so informed about how things work and what they can do and what's around the corner and what's coming next. i mean that guy is a real technologist. >> i asked dean cayman if he could bring a u.s. first team to the ghetto i'm from. and so he is like, sure. i'm like the only problem is these kids aren't going to take the class. so i called abc and bought time on abc and made a program

dedicated to u.s. first called i.m. first. >> first stands for inspiration and recognition of science and technology. >> i had justin bieber, bono on the show, miley cyrus on the show, so i called all my friends to support me on my efforts to make science cool. >> i believe that the schools and the educators are capable of dealing with education if kids showed up as passionate about learning math and science as they are passionate about getting on a varsity football or basketball team. >> we're performing the super bowl this year. yeah, i got a robotics competition in april. i said who is performing the halftime show of the competition? he said nobody. i said, well, we'll perform the halftime show of your competition. i can perform at teen choice awards and these kids are getting ds and fs. why aren't i performing at a

competition where kids excel in math and science? i was like why should they suffer? why can't they have entertainment like the kids that are flunking? you know what i'm saying. >> when did it occur to you that it has to be about the next generation? >> by the time i got to be a young adult, i was concerned that there might be a lot of smart kids out there that were as baffled and intimidated and frustrated as i was. so i thought i'm going to help create an opportunity for those kids to learn a different way and to be involved and to have real hands on experience with things to let them hopefully feel good about themselves, become capable of doing things, creating careers, designing the future, creating opportunities to make the world a better place. and it's fun! >> so i raised $5 million, invested my own money to build a community center that is packed with college track and dean cayman's robotics program. and with the four-year plan is see a ninth grader graduate 12th

grade and a 12th grader graduate college around this area. you don't want a kid just to graduate college, you want them to graduate college and create jobs. >> next week i'll bring you more of my conversation from will and dean from singularity university. nstipation. that's why i take colace®. [ male announcer ] for occasional constipation associated with certain medical conditions, there's colace® capsules. colace® softens the stool and helps eliminate the need to strain. stimulant-free, comfortable relief. no wonder more doctors recommend it. say yes to colace®! [ male announcer ] we're giving away fifty-thousand dollars worth of prizes! enter weekly to win! go to colacecomfort.com to enter!

welcome back. south by southwest is wrapping up. unless you were there, it is impossible to really experience what happens at this festival. but we're going to try. check out cnn at south by southwest sunday at 2:30 p.m. eastern and get yourself inside one of the most exciting events of the year. thanks for joining a conversation this week on "your money." we're here saturdays 1:00 p.m. eastern and sundays at 3:00 p.m. and stay connected to us 24/7 on twitter. my handle is @alivelshi.