of toys continues. however if you think about how it's really used instead of some kind of ship. thanks, erin. we begin tonight with keeping them honest with more new developments in the trayvon martin killing. from the beginning, we've been getting fresh, sometimes contradictory clues, to what happened that night. some of them supporting george zimmerman's claim that he shot the unarmed teen in self-defense, others casting doubt on it. tonight, no exception. we're keeping him honest. we're trying to bring you all the pieces of the picture as they emerge without jumping to conclusions so you can decide for yourself, based on the evidence, what happened that night. today a leading forensic audio expert listened to george zimmerman's 911 call and weighed in on whether zimmerman uttered a racial slur when he got out of his suv to follow martin. it's only 1.6 seconds of audio,

but it's important because the federal government is investigating this as a possible hate crime, and the audio in question could be a major piece of evidence. the fbi is certainly treating it that way. they are doing their own analysis of the tape. before we go any further, though, a warning about the language. if you want to send the kids out of the room, now would be a good time, okay? so about the phrase. some believe they hear zimmerman saying, f-ing coons. others hear what enhanced audio seems to reveal saying f-ing cold. listen. >> i don't want to say what it sounds like when a lot of people are saying what it sounds like, but let's play it so the viewer can have an idea for themselves and draw their own conclusion. now, it does sound less like that racial slur. it could have been that slur.

from listening in this room, and this is a state of the art room, it doesn't sound like that slur anymore. >> but today he had another interpretation, this time f-ing punks. here's the newest enhanced version done by tom owen of owen forensic services. listen. all right, so what do you think? it's not easy to know. well, once again, tom owen says he thinks zimmerman was saying punks. and zimmerman's lawyers claim he told them that is exactly what he said. this would seem to be welcome news in the zimmerman camp, however, tom owen is also the expert who contradicts zimmerman's claim that he was the one crying out for help that night, which was captured on that 911 call. it's a claim his father repeated last night on fox news. >> george was there yelling for help for at least 40 seconds.

it's clearly him on the tape. there's absolutely no doubt about who it is. a neighbor came, saw what was happening, saw george being beaten, heard george yelling for help, and the neighbor said he was calling 911. >> also when asked whether his son has ever, that he knew of, used a racial slur, robert zimmerman said, and i'm quoting him now, none whatsoever. he described george zimmerman as someone who tut ored american children and spoke out against the policeman who beat a homeless black man. he said it's sad that people are not telling the truth in the case for their own agenda, stating it's a racial agenda. more in how the role of the tape is playing or should play in this tragedy.

this is the founder of yourblackworld.com and university professor carol swain. thank you both for coming. we don't know for sure what happened the night george zimmerman shot trayvon martin and we certainly don't know if it was racially motivated, but you think race is a huge part of this story. tell us why. >> because i think it's quite reasonable to think that what happened to trayvon wouldn't have happened had he been white. all the things that george zimmerman did that show him following him, tracking him down and killing him, and part of the reason this sparked controversy around the world, actually, is because there are millions of people who are identify with that, millions of black men,

including myself, and women as well, who know what it's like to look suspicious even when you haven't done anything wrong. so to somehow extract race from the case of trayvon martin, it would border on the delusional, actually. >> carol swain, you say the whole discussion on george zimmerman shouldn't be racialized. explain what you mean. >> i don't think the black leaders should be using race in the way that they have and encouraging young black men to wear hoodies. those hoodies feed into the stereo type, and unfortunately, in america, when you look at the crime rate among young black men, wearing those hoodies, all of that raises the suggestion pi -- suspicion that causes them to be viewed as potentially criminal. i am a mother, and i raised two black males, and we lived in predominantly white

neighborhoods, so my children were trailed, they were stopped by the police, and they had to learn how to carry themselves and how to dress in such a way that they wouldn't raise they don't necessarily feed into the negative stereotypes. >> professor yourself, have cal for an economic boycott of florida if george zimmerman is not arrested. tell our viewers why you support this? >> i support the boycott as of right now. because when you look at what's going on in sanford and what has happened in sanford, it's not a stretch to think there could be serious corruption going on there. if you look throughout the history of george zimmerman you find the man who is the sun of a judge has been allowed to walk free on many offenses that would have landed a guy like me in jail. so i think that there are some people shaking in their boots in the sanford government that

realize they've been complacent in allowing this man to escape punishment for things he's done in the past. i think his father should be investigated. i think that all of these individuals who may have obstructed justice now and in the past should be dealt with because the prosecution of george zimmerman is really just the beginning. and the last many point i'll make is that the hoodie is not on trial. tray john martin is not on trial. >> the stereotypes are. the stereotypes are. >> but if i want to walk outside and wear a hoodie, nobody has a right to kill me because i wear a hoodie. that's like saying a woman who wears a short skirt deserves to be raped. >> that's over the top. that's over the top. that's part of the problem. >> i don't see why it's over the top. >> as long as black men have -- young black men have such a high crime rate and there are a lot of crimes that we could be talking about, it feeds into that stereotype. and the economic boycott, all that's going to do is hurt the community.

it will hurt black people, it will hurt white people, hispanics. >> you're saying dr. king was just a big trouble maker. you're sighing when he organized boy cotts he was being a trouble maker, making things worse. >> i think the era, i think the era for boy cotts are over. >> you cannot begin blaming the victim. we can't do that. >> the crimes, look at the black-on-black crime rate. we know the crime rates. we have a problem in the black community. >> yes. >> and the only thing they have done is boosted the sales of hoodies and skeultss. they need to teach them how to comport themselves in such a way they don't draw attention to the negative stereotypes. >> let's be clear. many of us go around the country and talk to young black men. >> good, good. >> so we can't presume that's not happening. but you must also --

>> that's not what some of these other people are doing. >> al sharpton is not the focus of the discussion. >> all you're doing is racializing every issue. and it doesn't benefit the black community. >> this issue, madam, racialized itself. >> it's been use in an opportunistic fashion. >> that is not true. >> and it has to do with trying to boost black turnout for the next collection. i think it's part of the electoral politics. >> that is not true. >> i hope not. i hope it's not true. >> to identify trayvon as being suspicious. when george zimmerman chased him down and shot him in cold blood, that racialized the issue. >> you're both talking and it's hard to understand what's going o. professor watkins, explain why an entire community, sanford, florida, families, business owners, white, black, hispanic, everyone, none of whom

had anything to do with the death of trayvon martin, should be punished by a boycott because of the actions of george zimmerman. >> because the boycott is sending a message to say that whatever is happening in that government, that corruption that is oppressing so many people that's harming so many people needs to be dealt with. and, again, when you have a boycott, when you oppose economic sapgzs there are going to be people who are affected who didn't have anything to do with what actually happened. but what has to happen is there has to be some sort of action to persuade the citizens of the city and that that government to shake itself down clean and sort of deal with some of these issues. a good, serious discussion from both of you. we can go on. but i think you boat made your points. you made them both well. appreciate you very much. appreciate your coming on. so whatever role race may or may not play in the martin case, recent history at sanford and elsewhere gives many in the african-american community reason to suspect and, in some

cases, fear the police. on his blog, tyler perry describes an intense traffic stop he had in atlanta. and the disappearance in florida whose last known encounter was with a now fired but never prosecuted sheriff's deputy. >> she hasn't seen her son in eight years. >> do you have any hope your son is still alive? >> i don't believe terrence is alive. at this point i have to find out what happened to him. >> what happened to terrence williams is anybody's guess. he was last seen outside this naples, florida cemetery on january 11th, 2004 with this man, sheriff's deputy steve cocins. >> his story about meeting terrence williams here at the cemetery just doesn't add up. at one point hawkins said he pulled his car over because it was having problems.

but when he called his friend in dispatch he reported the car had been abandoned. he never let on he had had any contact with the driver, terrence williams. >> i got a homie cadillac on the side of the road here signal 11, snag 52 nobody around. >> maybe he's out there in the cemetery. he'll chemical back and his car will be gone. >> but if the driver was not around, how then was deputy calkins able to run a background check, using his name and birthday. >> last name? >> williams, common spelling. >> date of birth? >> 4-1-75. black male. >> yet just four days later, calkins claims to remember nothing of the car or the driver. listen to what he says when a sheriff's dispatchers calls him at home. >> you towed a car from vanderbilt and 111th monday, a cadillac. do you remember it? >> uh, no.

>> do you remember? she said it was near the cemetery? >> cemetery? >> the people at the cemetery are telling her you put somebody in the back of your vehicle and arrested him and i don't show you arrested anybody. >> i never arrested nobody. >> isn't that amazing? he's a seasoned veteran and he couldn't remember four days later? >> so you don't buy that? >> no. it's not true. it's not true. >> eight days after terrence vanished, deputy calkins was ordered to write a report. and it's in this report that a different story emerges. the deputy says he drove the 27-year-old father of four to this nearby circle k where he says he thought terrence worked. and it's that version of events that concerned investigators. because just months earlier they heard the same story from deputy calkins about another missing man. felipe santos vanished in 2003 after he responded to the scene of a minor accident involving

santos. he issued santos a citation and put him in the back of his sheriff's car. santos's brother, who was also at the scene, asked we hide his face out of fear for his own safety. >> did deputy calkins tell you where he was taking your brother? >> translator: the officer never told us anything. later we went to the jail and my brother wasn't there. >> when calkins was questioned about santos, an undocumented worker, he told investigators, he dropped santos off at a circle k. sheriff's investigator kevin o'neill. >> and we have no independent corroboration of anybody tell us that they saw williams or santos at one of these circle ks. that's strictly carkins's testimony. and i think we can add up where we can put his testimony at this point. >> o'neill says neither of the missing men was ever scene on circle k's security cameras. and there's more. >> about a month after terrence williams disappeared, steve

calkins gave a sworn statement during an interrogation. he said he called the circle k where he said he dropped terrence williams off. he told investigators he made that call from his work-issued nextel phone. but when investigators said they pulled his phone records and told him there was no record of a call to this circle k from his cell phone he brushed it off saying simply, quote, i don't know what to tell. >> you you've been doing this for a long time. you know when something doesn't smell right. do you think the deputy had anything to do with the disappearance and possible death of these two men? >> he's absolutely in the middle of the investigation. everything points right back to steve calkins. >> months after santos and williams went missing, calkins was fired for lying in connection with the investigation of terrence williams. calkins hasn't been charged with a crime because no criminal evidence was ever found.

it was described as immaculate. calkins's home was never sevened because according to investigators they didn't have the evidence needed for a search warrant. we wanted to ask steve calkins some questions but couldn't get past this woman. >> hello? hi. sorry to bother you. i'm randi kaye from cnn. i'm looking for steve calkins. >> he's not on your property? >> bye. >> is he here? >> bye! >> in 2006, cal cans kins did tell a local paper he didn't do anything wrong, blaming the coincidences of the missing men on very bad luck. he suggested maybe they ran away. >> if terrence was alive, terrence would have had somebody contact his mother. i know for sure that's one thing he would do in a heartbeat.

call my mama. >> randi kaye, cnn, naples, florida. let us know what you think. we're on facebook and google plus or follow me on twitter. tonight, a question, is president obama trying to muscle the u.s. supreme court with his remarks on the health care case, or are conservatives just freaking out, including a federal judge who took action that our normally low key legal analysts, calls quoting a disgrace. jeffrey toobin is standing by along with jay s.e.c. ula. that's coming up. in what passes for common sense. used to be we socked money away and expected it to grow. then the world changed... and the common sense of retirement planning became anything but common. fortunately, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. take control by opening a new account or rolling over an old 401(k) today, and we'll throw in up to $600.

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mattresses start at just $699. a very strange chapter in american history is unfolding right now. and jeffrey toobin is right at the center of it, along with the president of the united states. we'll explain why in just a moment is, shall we say, a little ticked off. >> what these judges have done is a disgrace. there is nothing wrong. he said i signed a law that was passed by democratally elected congress and i think it's constitutional. and they give the justice department a homework assignment, a three-page letter,

single spaced, explaining what the president said. they don't have to explain what the president said. that was a perfectly appropriate comment by the president. and it just shows how some of these republican judges are just deranged by hatred of the president. >> here's what he's talking b. president obama's defense of the health care reform law now before the supreme court. i'm confident that the supreme court will not take what would be an unprecedented extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratally elected congress. >> the president, "obviously misspoke and not gave people enough legal context to understand the point he was making. but with mitch mcconnell saying, and i'm quoting him now, the president crossed a dangerous line this week.

and judge jerry smith, a reagan appoint tee on the fifth circuit court of appeals demanded and got from the justice department which is arguing a health care case before his panel. three pages, single spaced, showing president obama understand that judges do, in fact, have the power to review and strike down laws. something a high school student should know since 1803. jeff toobin is joining us with jay, chief counsel of law and justice. jeff, first to you. can federal judges be distressed by what the president said without being characterized as deranged by hatred? >> absolutely not. this is a phony controversy from day one. what obama said in its full context is completely appropriate and uncontroversial. of course the president knows that judges can declare laws

unconstitutional. his own administration is asking the courts to declare the defensive marriage act unconstitutional. they declare laws unconstitutional every year. every first year law student, most college students know that. obama didn't suggest otherwise. he simply said other the preceden precedence, which is what's relevant in the health care law, he thinks the supreme court should uphold this law. there's nothing wrong with that. >> jay, i know you disagree with jeff on this. if politics and ideology permanent mated judiciaries to damaging levels at least in some instances. >> well, look, the damage here was the president of the united states chastises in essence the supreme court of the united states on a case i heard the week before. they said the administration had a train wreck on one day and plane wreck the next day in oral arguments. and the president defending his position calls justices that would overturn an act of congress, a law signed by the

president to judicial activists. the rest said unelected judges. the fact of the matter is this. a, the fifth circuit, did they have the right to ask for that letter brief? sure. i've had cases where we have had an oral argument. during the question they will ask for additional briefing on a point. are a lot of judges upset about this? they don't like to be called what the president did. and the unprecedented aspect of this in my view, wolf, is the president not only talked about judicial philosophy but a case currently before the court that was argued, voted on last week, opinions being written and we don't know which way the case will be go. and i think lawrence tribe was right. i understand you want to take it to a broader context, which is what the administration tried to do on tuesday and wednesday. but the fact of the matter is the president acted and made that state as if it was shocking that a court might overturn a decision or a law signed by the president passed by congress. by the way, that was mistake number one. of course the court can do it.

this is not legislation passed with wide support. i mean, who are we kid something this was closely divided in congress and closely divided the supreme court. >> the democrats in the house and the senate had a significant majority. >> a constitutional law scholar, al lie of the president, said the president should generally refrain from commenting on pending case during the process of judicial deliberation. do you think the president regrets making those comments? >> well, i couldn't speak for barack obama. i don't know what he is thinking right now. i think the point is those of us who are watching, those of us who are trying to be fair here, recognize this is a huge case, a huge issue. this is the signature piece of legislation that he has signed as president of the united states. and you bet he thinks heights constitutional. and he has every right to say that. i think this idea that the

constitution and judges of the delicate flowers that you can't criticize, you can't say anything. they are very powerful people. the constitution sets up a system where they are insulated from political pressure. what can barack obama do to the supreme court justices. >> why did you have to make the statement? >> because he's the president of the united states. this is a pressing national issue. >> do you know another president of the united states during a case that was argued and pending that made a statement about how the outcome of the case can be and talking about unelected judges. can you name a president? >> a lot of things. there are a lot of different pieces of your question. >> just win. >> the recent president bush, judicial activism all the time. >> sure. >> judges not ledge slating from the bench. >> not on a particular case, which was pending. >> so what? >> right.

i think that's a big difference. wolf, they are co equal branch of government here. >> exactly. it is not insulated from criticism. >> guys, we're going to leave it right there. >> criticism on a case that is pending? please. >> hold your thoughts. plenty of time between now and june for us to continue this conversation. thanks for coming in. an 80-year-old wisconsin woman is getting kudos from experienced pilots. her husband collapsed at the control of the cessna. she doesn't have a pilot's license but nerves of steel. plenty. listen. >> next time around. [ artis brown ] america is facing some tough challenges right now. two of the most important are energy security

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helen collins is alive tonight and that is nothing short of amazing. it makes you wonder what you would have done in the same situation. could you have pulled off what helen did. two things you should consider. helen doesn't have a pilot's license, though she has flown many years at her husband's side. she's also 80 years old. once again, here's randi kaye. >> good thing helen collins was paying attention all those years flying around in small planes with her husband. on monday, 2,000 feet above the

ground, helen's husband, john collins, who was piloting the plane, had a heart attack and lost consciousness. with her husband slumped over the controls, this 80-year-old wisconsin grandmother did what most of us probably could not. she took control of the twin engine cessna. low on fuel and without a pilot's license, helen began to maneuver towards cherry land airport, 150 miles north of milwaukee. her heroic efforts were recorded. one thing she makes clear right away she needs to land fast. >> you better get me in there pretty soon. i don't know how long i'm going to have gas. >> if helen was nervous she hardly let it show. friends on the on the ground were alerted to the emergency and quickly made contact. >> hi, helen, this is cathy. >> hi, cathy. hell of a place to be. >> okay, helen, we are going to launch another aircraft. it will come up and it will fly right next to you and give you instructions. >> within seven minutes, the

pilot was in the air in another plane. helen had herself a wingman. everything he did, she did. >> she was confident. she wanted to know if i was confident in her confidence. and i said, well, if you're confident, i'm confident. i think we can do this. >> despite the fact that helen hadn't had a flying lesson in years, he said she was familiar with some of the switches. but he thought she was coming in too fast and too high so he had her do some practice runs. but when her wing man asked to close the road, she questioned his confidence in her. >> it's going to be a little bit of a flight lesson. >> what do you mean by close the road? >> i'm talking to the people on the ground, helen. >> don't you have any faith in me? >> i do. i don't trust the drivers on the road. >> the final approach was tricky. an eyewitness caught it all on tape. >> turn left. turn left. left turn, left turn. helen, turn left. keep the nose up. that's it.

that's it. >> not only was helen out of fuel, but her right engine was out. her wingman shouted urgent commands. >> nose down. nose down. turn right a little bit. turn right. okay, bring the nose down, nose down. come, on get down. get down. powerback. powerback. reduce the power. reduce the power, over. reduce the power. nose down, over. helen, do you read me? >> i read you. >> about 45 minutes after this nightmare began, helen landed best she could. >> she did a great job, came down and landed a little less than three points. >> her plane bounced hard off the run way and skidded about 1,000 feet. >> power off, power off, power off. okay. you're down. great job, helen. great job. >> helen escaped with a few minor injuries. all those years of flying with her husband paid off. he was later pronounced dead at the hospital. but no doubt he would have been

proud. randi kaye, cnn, atlanta. as you just saw helen collins had a wingman who helped guide her down. she's joining us now. robert, a truly amazing story. take us back to that moment you and your wife, who is also a pilot, first made radio contact with helen. >> okay. when we got to the airport, helen was talking on the airport frequency. and the airport manager was conversing with her. and my wife and i quickly made an analysis of the situation along with your manager. and they maintained contact with helen the whole time. and my wife is very good at flight instructing and given factors of calming people down and allowing them to be very receptive instruction. and i thought that we were going

to need a different perspective from that on the ground. my wife opted to manage the radio and conversely with helen while i pursued the aircraft and a chance to be helen's second aircraft of each. and went airborne to fly the wing. what is happening with the aircraft as far as performance goes. >> was there ever a moment when you scrambled to get into other plane that you thought this was not going to work necessarily have a happy ending? >> you have to think positive. and i've been -- i might be overly positive. >> if you're not thinking of a positive outcome and working very diligently and a positive outcome, that's when it becomes very difficult.

so i just keep a positive attitude and work towards a successful outcome. and it worked that way. in fact, i was talking to helen. i could tell in her voice she was as determined as i was to get her on the ground. >> and her landing, and you've said this, it was more than just successful. explain. >> the landing, in fact, it was one of my aviator friends flying for midwest express, i had to run out to los angeles, california. and we were on a red eye flight. on the north side of the airport, east-west run ways. and i saw them make a landing identical to hers. and i told her, she's a hero in my book. she did exactly textboo for a

very, very long time. it was just outstanding how she kept the aircraft under control at all times. and stayed with it. never gave up. that's secret to a successful outcome in aviation. >> it certainly is. robert, thanks very much. thank your wife as well. appreciate everything you did. >> oh, you're welcome. 80-year-old grandmother. what an amazing story. tonight in your ground breaking special report on kids and race, we hear from parents, their teenagers told us how they felt about interracial dating. they didn't minutes any words. what parents have to say about statements like this. >> do you think your parents would be fine if you decided to start dating a black girl, brought her home? >> um, honestly my parents probably wouldn't be too happy because if i was to marry a black girl, you're connected to their family now and who knows

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we're talking once again tonight about the intersection of the trayvon martin killing and racial attitudes. tonight we continue our ground breaking ac "360" special report. kids and race, the hidden picture, with a look at interracial dating. teens spoke about it freely. instead of a racial divide it exposed a general racial divide.

all of them said they would date someone of a different race. according to the expert to the study, it's not only common for parents to discourage interracial dating but the anxiety about it could seep into the messages they send to their kids about race when they're much younger. anderson and soledad o'brien sat down with teens who talked about international dating and the harsh realities of racism that this youngest generation continues to face. >> i want to play something jimmy said about a joke he had heard in school. i want to play that. >> it was like saying racist jokes. >> okay. >> and what were some of the jokes. >> how do you get a black person down from a tree? yeah. you cut the rope. i didn't find that one very fun y. i didn't find any of them funny.

>> it was surprising those jokes were being told. does that surprise you? >> it really does. i remember that day. and he came home. he was really upset about it. and it was shocking. it really was. because, you know, i don't think racism, even though it's not a part of our home, i don't think it will probably ever go away. we wish that it would. i think somehow it will just be around. because some people cannot get past a person because of their color. >> i tell them, you know, son, stay away with from the those kind of friends. if that's how they are talking that racist stuff like that, stay away from them. because i don't want it in his head. me and my family, i grew up. my mom, alabama, i cannot remember her ever speaking about us hating a different race. ever. so we don't promote it in our home with our kids ever. >> any of your kids have

boyfriends and girlfriends? >> definitely. >> 13. that's so young. >> a lot of conversations about interracial dating. it was really interesting. i want to play a little clip first from jimmy. here's what he said. >> do people start dating in middle school? >> yes. >> do you have a girlfriend? >> no. >> if you were to have a girlfriend and she was a white girl and you brought her home, what would your mom or dad say? >> i don't know. it's just when i tell my parents i had dated a white girl and they said, well -- why not your own kind. so yeah. >> so they are not that excited about it. >> it's not like you need to choose a black girl just why a white girl. no reason. >> tell me about that conversation. >> i remember that conversation.

>> you know, like you said, we don't care. but when you see your kid always steering towards a different race you want to make sure that he doesn't have a problem with his own race. that's basically why we sit and drill them and talk to them about you have a problem with your own race. because we never seen them with a black girlfriend. >> which brings us to luke. we asked him also about interracial dating. here's what he said. >> do you think your parents would be fine if you started to date a black girl, brought her home? >> my parents honestly wouldn't be too happy because if i was to marry a black girl, you're connected to their family now. and who knows what her family is certainly like some so they probably wouldn't be that excited about it? >> probably not. >> where do you think that comes from? >> we have an older daughter. she came home one day and

informed me she started going out with an average american or black young man at the school. the young man we liked a lot. it wasn't that we didn't so much want them dating because of race per se, we didn't know if she really thought about some of the cultural differences there may be. so we talked about it in that respect. in fairness and to be honest, we do recognize that sometimes there are cultural differences. and we did talk about that. not that it's right or wrong, good or bad, but just different. and we played the scenario out with our daughter in that respect. and we have several friends who are married that are in interracial marriages and they have great marriages. they also shared challenges at times. we try to be as open and honest as we can in talking about those kind of issues. again, not to dissuade or to discourage but just to get it out there on the table and to make sure we have talked about those kind of things because they're real. so i think that's more of our

conversation than with our 13-year-old, with the older children. >> but they listen. they always listen. let's talk about shante. she said she has a double standard. listen. >> if i were to date a white guy, a lot of people really wouldn't have a problem with that. but if my brother were to bring home a white girl, there's definitely going to be some controversy. >> from whom, your parents or you? >> from me. from me. >> isn't that contradictory? you can date a white boy but your brother, forget it if he dated a white girl? >> really it's more of a problem for people when a black man brings home a white woman. because it's been like that for years. oh, you know, you know, a black girl and black guy just broke up. he left you for a white girl? that's just really what people say. >> so what would it matter to

you? >> i think it would, unless of course she were not to act so quote,en quote white. >> what does that mean? >> you know, flipping the hand. oh, my god. ha, ha, they're so ghetto. no. >> so she has to be the right kind of white girl? >> i guess so. >> wow. so much to go to on that. >> which way you want to go? >> where do you think that comes from? >> i think when she speaks about if her brother were to bring home a white girl, what it says, i think, to our kids, our black kids is are we not good enough for our black brothers. what's wrong with us? you know, why -- do you like the silky straight hair? i can press my hair. it gives them a sense oflesser. >> did it surprise you to hear

her say that? >> absolutely not. i just wasn't surprised. and it doesn't say anything about how she feels about the other cultures or ethnicitieeth. it just says more about what she thinks about herself. this would definitely spark a conversation for us. ignite to touch on some issues. it different dawned on me to ask her specifically if she felt a certain way about her brother bringing home ood ooth race. it -- i didn't think she cared. >> i think listening to luke's comments that we would be more purposeful about talking about it, we tried to be over the years with our other children, but i think probably there may be some questions he would have for us. i would not want him to think we would be displeased if he had a

white or korean girlfriend. >> will this change the conversations you'll have? >> what works for us is we don't take negatively about racism. and i love that because i see the joy in them. you know, i figure if you're a racist or got it in you, at some point, you're just going to be miserable. if he encounters something, we address it. we get past it. we'll tell them straight, oak, that's just that one person. >> thank you so much for taking part in this. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> i appreciate it as well. truly eye opening. in other news tonight, we'll show you the face of a monster. the face of a real monster. new photos of convicted murderer charles manson.

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