it's getting bigger. and mad cow in the united states. we get answers. we go inside the tsa. a former head of the agency "outfront" tonight and says you should be able to bring knives and a whole lot more on planes. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett live from new york. winks and nods in the secret service. is the culture to blame for the scandal? it was a key question today. the secretary of homeland security, the department which oversees the secret service was in the hot seat on capitol hill. >> to your knowledge, is this the first time something like this has happened? >> there was nothing in the record to suggest that this would happen.

>> and in fact, it said one agent that wasn't implicated in the matter but talked to the post off the record said, quote, of course this has happened before. this is not the first time. another agent said, and i quote, you take a bunch of guys out of the country and a lot of women showering them with attention, bad things are bound to happen. now agents who did not want to be identified told "the washington post" that an a 2009 visit to overseas, they went out to clubs and the reaction by the leadership speaks for itself. now, ronald kessler is the reporter who first broke this story on the prostitution scandal in colombia two weeks ago. he told us today this is a symptom of larger problems in the secret service. it's a culture of winking and nodding and cutting corners. significant allegation. and kessler tells us that director mark sullivan is not the only one to blame and that according to the agents that he

talks to, this culture endangers the president. for now the white house and secretary napolitano are standing by their man and the agency. >> director sullivan has the president's and my full confidence as this investigation proceeds. the investigation will be complete and thorough and we will leave no stone unturned. >> senator chuck grassley is the top republican on the hearing and he was in the hearing with napolitano today and he's calling for an outside investigation to determine if any white house staff members were involved in the scandal in colombia. good to see you. i know you have been critical of the investigations that we have seen so far. what questions do you have that are not getting answered? >> well, right now, none of this stuff is given to us. we told it's been investigated. there's no problem with the people in the white house.

we're told that -- so that needs to be clarified. the inspector general, is he doing his own investigation or is he just overlooking and kind of reviewing what the director sullivan is doing? and then we have the incident that was -- that came to our attention today where some top people on the armed services committee asked to be briefed on how the -- it's being handled within the defense department and the vice chairman of the joint chief of staff couldn't answer their questions. what's the big mystery? we ought to get this out in the open and protection of the president ought to be a top priority. >> as you know, sir, we have learned the identity of one of the alleged prostitutes. diana suarez. some of the viewers may be familiar of the pictures with her. her in a bikini. a 24-year-old single mother who studies english. i know you did a radio interview

yesterday in which you said that the prostitutes could have been russian spies. who knows who's using prostitutes, the russians are famous for getting information out of us. do you think they could have been spies for russia or were you making a rhetorical point? >> a rhetorical point because that's what the russians did during the cold war and they still may be doing it today. but it was very much a tool that they used and of course i was just saying with that history, we've got to be very, very certain that things like this aren't happening again in our national security being compromised in some way that we don't even know about. and that's what -- that gets back to what was already discussed in your program. is this part of the culture of the secret service, et cetera, or is this just 22 people or maybe 12 people in the secret service that just screwed up once? >> right. >> and if it's part of the culture, we've got to get to the bottom of that. >> and senator, greg stokes is

one of the agents allegedly involved. he was in the k-9 unit. apparently he's been in touch with the oversight and reform committee and speculation is he wants to testify. do you plan to have him testify at a hearing you're able to hold and would you offer him immunity so he can speak more freely? >> if i were in control of the senate judiciary committee i'd be having a hearing on that. it's up to senator leahy whether or not he decides to call a hearing and subpoena and give that sort of protection you're talking about. senator leahy and i have been talking at the staff level about what ought to be done, but there's no conclusions at this point. >> all right. well, senator grassley, thank you very much. now let's go to fran town send. george with bush's adviser. you heard -- it was on the same lines of the senator there, saying that the briefs sent were

woefully unable to answer the questions about what happened in cartegena. what's happening here? >> it's pretty clear that the secret service while senator grassley isn't satisfied with the answers he's gotten a lot more information on the secret service investigation as it's gone along, as has judiciary. i mean, mark sullivan has spent a lot of time on capitol hill and as a result of that, you don't hear many calls for sullivan to resign because he's handled it pretty well. they made a mistake, one, they waited to start the briefings. this incident happened almost two weeks ago. two, they were unprepared. i find it surprising because you know i sit on the cia's external advisory board. and when leon panetta was the director of the cia, he rebuilt the relationship with capitol hill because i have heard him speak many times about the need for transparency with your oversight committee. >> right. >> he's out of the country right now. when they went up to capitol

hill. i suspect when he gets back, he will have to personally address the deficiency and deal with this. that's right. >> what do you think about what senator grassley is saying? i know he said he was making a rhetorical point but it seems to be more than that. p prostitutes has been used throughout human history as spies and agents. it could have been the case in cartegena or not, but that's not the point. if this is more common in the agency it could be happening and it could be threatening the president. >> absolutely. >> is that too paranoid? >> no, no. it's a worthwhile point. look, and they get trained. erin, the thing about this that's so astounding, the agents are trained in counterintelligence, to look for people who are trying to approach them for that reason. so they know better than this. they know better than to put themselves in a vulnerable position like that which is what makes it so astounding. look, you have a large number of agents for a short period of time on the ground caught up in this. it's a natural question, is it a cultural problem? first, we have to understand

this incident and then you need to take it further and say is it a broader problem? i suspect that mark sullivan is committed to doing that. >> well, fran townsend, thank you very much. the secret service investigation broadens and continues. next a student in iowa was raped and held captive and her silence was being bought. and the wooing of mitt romney begins. who wants to be the running mate. look at who's saying the most no no no. and the latest on madeleine mccann. are we closer to finding that missing british girl? to give it a sense of direction, at&t created a mobile asset solution to protect and track everything. so every piece of equipment knows where it is, how it's doing or where it goes next. ♪ this is the bell on the cat. [ male announcer ] it's a network of possibilities -- helping you do what you do... even better.

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so las vegas sands reported revenue of $2.8 billion after the markets closed and it was an industry wide record and the name is las vegas sands but the story is not about vegas anymore, it's about asia. that's our number tonight. 87. that's the percent of las vegas sands earnings that came from macaw and singapore. asia is the be all and end all for casino operators right now. sands just opened it's fourth casino in macaw, the only place in china where gambling is legal. people just get off the planes, the boats and ferries and go in and gamble. it's crazy. the hotel in singapore, the occupancy rate is over 98%. it's a stunning place to visit.

in case you might have heard a lot about las vegas sands recently, it's not anything to do with casinos, it's because of who runs the company. sheldon adelson. the billionaire that donated all that money to newt gingrich. we'll have much more on newt coming up. but now a story some are calling an extreme example of culture shock. police say 21-year-old penn tang, a chinese national and former student at the university of iowa sexually assaulted a woman who was showing him an apartment to sublet. before he was arrested, he tried to cover his tracks and bribe his victim. you may say really? that's ridiculous. here's the thing. in china, a bribe is not so uncommon. in fact it's how business gets done a lot of the time. tang's parents even flew to the united states from china and tried to buy the victim's silence. well, tonight tang is behind bars for first-degree kidnapping and bribery. our jim spellman is in iowa city, he's been looking into this story. jim, it sounds like what may be normal in china is going to be

very bizarre in iowa. tell us a little bit more about this strange case. >> reporter: sure, erin. this woman wanted to sublet her apartment. instead of using craigslist or something like that, she used a chinese language website. it's very common here for the chinese students to deal amongst themselves, one apartment one student to the next. this man, tang, shows up. instead of wanting to sublet the apartment, he comes with handcuffs, forces her into her bedroom, stuffs a towel into her mouth and sexually assaults her. not only that, he wants to record the moment to be able to influence her from going to the police. take a listen. >> took photographs? >> yeah. he ended up taking photographs of her in compromising positions under the premise that if she made a report to the police department, that he would put those out on the internet. >> reporter: and so what he wanted to do, erin, is take advantage of this trust that exists amongst these students from china here in iowa city. he knew that everybody knows

each other in this community and he felt that maybe he could shame her into not going to the police. >> that is just -- it's unbelievable just to even hear that, but i know his parents, beyond just himself, his parents got involved, flew to the united states, tried to bribe her as well. where are they? are they going to be prosecuted? >> reporter: sure. well, listen, i think any parent can understand wanting to come and help their child. instead of using their money to hire an attorney perhaps, they were prepared to pay this woman off, to try to influence her to not go to the police. initially police charged them with witness tampering. they have since dropped the charges against them but charged tang himself with witness tampering because inside jail he's been contacting a friend, trying to get that friend to go to her and convince her to change her story, telling him promise her anything. so police have added witness tampering as well as the kidnapping charge to tang. >> wow, thank you very much, jim spellman. this is a bizarre tale. with all the talk on how business gets done in china and

corruption and we heard about the businessman that got murdered, it's a very strange story indeed right here in the united states. did marco rubio make his case to be mitt romney's number two? he may have done so just by saying it's the case that he doth protest too much. and should we be allowed to bring weapons on planes? a former head of the tsa outfront to say yes. >> announcer: with nothing but his computer, an identity thief is able to use your information to open a bank account in order to make your money his money. [whoosh, clang] you need lifelock, the only identity theft protection company that now monitors bank accounts for takeover fraud. lifelock: relentlessly protecting your identity. call 1-800-lifelock or go to lifelock.com today. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro.

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florida senator and gop darling marco rubio talked to

russia, syria and kony 2012 in a speech that looked like a vp tryout. he has repeatedly denied he'll join mitt romney on the ticket but of course so has, well, pretty much anybody else considered to be on the ticket but not all have been as convincing. >> anybody that asks me to help the party or help the ticket in some way so we can get mitt romney elected, i'm willing to consider doing. >> well, i would consider it, but i doubt i'll get a call. >> what do you think about running for vice president with this guy? >> you know, i'm happy representing these folks in ohio. >> if i wanted to be president or vice president so badly, i would have run for president. i don't so i didn't. >> i think i would demand reconsideration and send mr. romney a list of people i think could suit better. >> i know people keep asking but my answer hasn't changed. >> still under no circumstances. >> yeah, i'm not going to be the vice president. >> all right. when it comes to the veep stakes, it seems a safe assumption is that no means maybe. i mean remember this?

>> vice president? >> no. no. i promise, no. >> you know what? see here's the thing, joe biden. you can't promise. you can say no, never. but you can't promise. i mean -- all right, john avlon is here and reihan salam is here. good to see all of you. john, this is a case of sort of like oh, no, no, no, no, no. yes. >> you just turned them all into mary pickford or something. look, the secret is never as popular as the sought and all these folks know that. if you're lobbying for vp, you're not going to get the gig. all those people that were put up there -- >> this is like they're playing hard to get? >> pretty much, yes. high school rules still apply, even at presidential level politics. it's sad but true. look, all those folks will be on the short list, you know. i think chris christie and bobby

jindal, but we're going to spend a lot of time playing this parlor game. it has less to do with the substantive debate of the presidency but it's an important first decision. >> don't knock the parlor game, john. i love it. >> chris christie was an adamant no and now seems to be sort of a no but yes. >> also i've got to say i know john doesn't agree with me on this, but if you say christie versus rubio to me, i think it's a no-brainer that christie would be a stronger add to a republican ticket because a lot of people talk about latino voters. but a really key constituency are affluent voters. if you look at colorado, there are over 30% of the electorate. that was true in 2008. if you look at virginia, over 30% of the electorate. pennsylvania, they're right around 30%. less so in ohio, less so in florida. but this is a key swing constituency that obama won big in 2008 and bush won big in 2004. >> i want to get jamal to weigh in but john, first, we have sort of stopped talking about the issue that marco rubio is not -- cuban and latino is not the same

thing. the thing that they're all going to flock and vote for him is at best simplistic. >> it is simplistic because it is a very diverse community. but the symbolism of having a hispanic on the ticket, adding youth and diversity to the ticket even if it's a cuban american instead of a mexican american, that could still be a game-changer. and it does move certain states in play. i think it would cause a reassessment and the republican party and mitt romney in particular has a lot of ground to make it when it comes to a latino gap and youth gap. that's why rubio gave a very responsible, mature, thoughtful speech today on foreign policy at brookings. >> jamal, who's better for the president to be put on this? i would imagine he doesn't want marco rubio on this ticket at all. >> i think the president and his team thinks they can take whoever gets put up against him. i don't know if they spent that much time thinking about it. to get to john's point, i think you can get youth and diversity with somebody and i'm going to

crib this from somebody like david frum, but you can get youth and diversity from somebody like the governor of louisiana, bobby jindal, because i think he's also a tested person, politician. he's been out there for a long time. conservatives like him a lot. all those things may matter for that. but it's interesting, when you think about the vice presidency -- the vice presidential nomination, you know why everybody is running from this, because if you want to be president it's the worst job to get. think about dan quayle, jack kemp, sarah palin, you can go down the list, dick cheney, how many of those guys became president. >> can i just say what i would like to watch just as a bystander. forget politics. but joe biden and chris christie. >> oh yeah. >> fun debate. >> that would be amazing. >> some youth and diversity. >> that would have to go on late-night television, in fact. >> elderly voters turn out, affluent voters turn out and those are voters that republicans need. they need to excite them. they need to turn them out in very large numbers. if you can run up the margins

there, though, that actually can make a big difference. i definitely get the idea that you want to improve your margins with latinos but they're going to respond to an effective economic message. >> newt, what's going on. he's out but he's not out. >> he just wants one more day all to himself. he wants that news cycle to bask in. this was always a bucket list presidential run. it just did a lot better than he ever dreamed. so one more day, one more negotiation where it's all newt all the time. >> i'm going to play one more sound bite of marco rubio because i just have to. people make fun of people for prompters, but everybody learns the hard way. here it is. >> a world where more people are free to grow their economies, free to pursue their dreams, free to become prosperous. i left my last page of the speech. does anybody have my last page? did i leave it with you? >> hey, he handled it with aplomb, but -- >> he did, but that's tough. >> all right, thanks to all of

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we start the second half of our show with stories we care about, where we focus on our reporting, do the work and find the outfront five. number one tonight, talk of winks and nods in the secret service. the agency's culture under fire

today. more questions about whether there's a pattern of bad behavior. homeland security secretary janet napolitano testified in front of congress saying this was a one-time occurrence. but ronald kessler, the author of "in the president's secret service" and the reporter who first broke the colombia story on prostitution told us this is a symptom of larger problems in the secret service, a culture of winking and nodding and cutting corners. he also told outfront that director mark sullivan is not the only one to blame and that according to agents he speaks to, the culture endangers the president. for now the white house and secretary napolitano are standing by the agency and its director. number two, sergeant gary stein discharged from the u.s. marine corps over his facebook comments about the president. stein had posted on facebook that president obama was a domestic enemy and that he would not obey orders given by the president. he argued his comments should be protected under free speech. after the decision, stein posted on facebook, and i quote, i have spent the last nine years honorably serving this great

nation and the corps. even though i will be discharged, no one can take the title of marine away from me. number three, the youngest son of bo shali is trying to separate himself from the political scandal involving his parents. the grad student at harvard has broken his silence and sent a written statement to the harvard crimson, the paper there. he declined to talk about his father's fall in china or his mother being a suspect in the murder of a british businessman, neil haywood, but the 24-year-old did downplay reports of his lavish lifestyle. he said scholarships pay for his tuition and living expenses and denied infamously driving a ferrari. the paper's president ben samuels told outfront his reporters spoke to bo on the phone but he didn't answer their questions. his whereabouts are unknown. number four, the federal reserve believes the economy is improving but not enough to start raising interest rates, which means refi now, people. they are leaving the key

interest rate near 0, leaving it there through next year. the central bank cut its forecast of unemployment saying it could go down to 7.8% by the end of the year. just so you know, it's 8.2% right now. fed chief ben bernanke added the bank cannot offset the economic effect if congress fails to stop tax increases set to take effect early next year. it has been 265 days since this country lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? well, the slowdown in europe is really not going to help. today we found out britain slipped back into recession. economic growth down 0.2% the first three months of the year. that's the second decline in a row. arizona's controversial immigration law in the spotlight at the supreme court today. now, justices are considering whether it goes too far in cracking down on illegal immigration. now, at the same time, news of a monumental shift in that very issue according to the pew hispanic issue, it's actually formal now.

immigration from mexico, which was the largest wave of immigrants from a single country in this nation's history dropped for the first time in more than two decades. the u.s. government says it's because of increased border security. it also coincided with the great recession and it is a fact that a lot of people didn't think there were job opportunities and stopped coming over the border. it was a 50% decline in annual housing starts, unemployment rate doubled over the past five years. let's call it out like it is. a lot of construction in this country is done by illegal immigrants from mexico. they were crushed by that plunge. cnn contributor john avlon and paul callan are both here. let's just start with this pew study, john. this is something we've been talking about for a while. we've seen these numbers dropping and dropping. the economy is certainly a part of it. they are trying to take credit for border security. what's the truth? >> it's a little bit of both. the laws of supply and demand to apply here. we've had a rough spot in the economy and as opportunities decline, less people risk their lives to get across the border. just to say it's solely a measure of the economy isn't accurate. this is a problem that's been

going on four decades, a serious problem with the southern border. there is good news to report also because of increased border enforcement. the numbers are actually staggering. we've seen an 85% increase in border patrols since 2004. we've seen arrests up more than 14% including a 70% increase in deportation of criminals who are illegal here in this country. 31% more drugs confiscated, 64% more weapons and a record high number of deportations in all, 1.5 million. so this is an enforcement success story as well. it is not simply buoying on the back of an economy. it's about border security. it's a strong story. >> i know it's critical but itself important to give credit. now, let's talk about this arizona law because ironically it's coming to the supreme court as immigration has plunged. paul callan, can you explain to people what it is? this is stopping somebody who's doing something wrong and being able to ask them their immigration status but it's raised concerns of racial profiling. >> exactly.

it says something unusual. usually immigration policy is handled by the federal government and now all of a sudden you have the state of arizona saying they're not doing their job so the local police are going to be mandated in certain situations to check to see if they're dealing with an illegal alien or an american citizen. and essentially that's the beef in this law. i mean why should the local cops be getting involved in immigration policies, that's federal. that's what they're really arguing about. >> so this is just who has jurisdiction, not actually addressing the issue that americans are fighting over, which is racial profiling or when can i know someone's status? >> what was interesting in the argument before the supreme court today was the solicitor general who represents the government, the obama administration, kind of walked away from that argument. that was a big part of the original argument, it discriminates against hispanic americans, they're going to be singled out. but he walked away from that and said, no, that's not a big part of our claim. >> in some ways this law has been mischaracterized and misunderstood but it's been a fascinating political catch-22. the irony is the presence of the arizona law has hurt the gop

politically. it has helped turn arizona possibly into a swing state this election but has had no effect on reducing illegal immigration because it hasn't taken effect. the improving economy has done that as well as increased border security under the obama administration. the head line is here amazing. we have basically stopped illegal immigration along the southern border in its tracks. if a republican was president and this happened, there would be celebration in the street by conservatives. instead there's just awkward silence. nobody wants to deal with it because it doesn't fit the narrative, including liberals. >> yes, both sides would dodge it. paul, let me ask you a question. elena kagan has recused herself because she was a solicitor general, but what happens if the ruling here is 4-4? >> when the u.s. supreme court is in a tie vote, then the ruling of the lower court is upheld. the lower court threw out the arizona law and said many of its provisions were illegal. so you'd really have that ruling as the ruling that would stand. >> is that likely, do you think?

>> well, it's a possibility. although many observers today were surprised at the fact that some of the more conservative justices were willing to go along with some of the provisions of the law. so i think it's up in the air. it's always hard to decide based on oral argument before the supreme court. sometimes they answer questions in a way that's very different from the way they decide in the end. >> and it's always confusing too as a layperson. they make a decision that people think is about this when it's really about that. >> talking politics, in the end it really says that the court decides major political issues in the end, sometimes, when you have a split court, which is why it's so important as to which president is appointing the justices because that determines what laws get upheld. >> polarized politics and polarized court. >> thanks to both. the first case of mad cow disease in six years was found in a dairy cow in california. now, this is the fourth case of a mad cow disease found in the united states since 2003. the usda stresses this cow was never part of the human food chain.

it's perfectly safe to eat beef and drink milk. now, we're just talking about a few cows, but obviously this is something that causes more widespread concern. think about this. the u.s. government only tests 40,000 cows a year for diseases. now, according to the usda, about 35 million cattle and calves are slaughtered in the united states. so is 40,000 the right ratio? michael hanson is a senior staff scientist with the policy and advocacy division at the consumers union. what do you think? just to take a step back, the american food supply has got to be, despite all the criticisms people have, some of them probably pretty fair, the safest in the world? >> well, there would be some people that would dispute that. it's our view that this is completely inadequate level of testing. as you said, it comes out to between a tenth of a percent and two-tenths of a percent, the cattle that go to slaughter every year. other countries that have dealt with this problem test far more cattle than we do.

in japan, for example, all cattle above the age of 20 months are tested before they get slaughtered. in europe, in many countries, all cattle above the age of 30 months get slaughtered. so in europe, that testing turns out to be 10 to 20% of all the cattle that go to slaughter and we're testing less than 1% and less than .5% and that's just not adequate. >> i remember living over in europe briefly and they had issues with mad cow and certainly britain did, and the united states didn't action even though we test less. so maybe we just test smarter? >> well, i think what the problem is, is what they found out the hard way in europe is if you don't take strong actions, the problem continues on until you take those stronger actions. and it wasn't until you didn't start to see the bse epidemic start declining in europe until they started to take strong actions and ban all these unsafe animal feeding practices, many

of which we still allow in the u.s. >> are we focusing on the right thing, though? because i mean the bovine encephalitis is obviously a scary thing but there are other diseases we could get from animals that could be much more frightening, spread much more quickly than this one, which causes a lot of fear but isn't even actually that easy to contract from a cow. i mean, are we even focusing on the right thing here? >> well in, a certain sense we are because the potential risk -- this has a very high what's called dread factor. since the potential downside is that you could get a fatal brain-wasting disease, this should be a wake-up call for the government to take stronger action. that doesn't mean that people have to be fearful and not eat meat, but it does suggest that the government needs to take much stronger action. >> all right. let me just give you the response from the usda. we did call them. they said that we test for bse at levels ten times greater than world animal health organization standards.

they talk about the 40,000 animals a year that they test but then say we focus on groups where the disease is more likely to be found, targeted population for surveillance including cattle exhibiting signs of bse, including animals that can't walk and dead cattle. again, i simply ask the question because it does appear to show in the animal's activity when they are sick, but we've only had four cows that have been tested for this in the united states since 2003 so you're talking about spending a lot of money on testing for something that doesn't seem to be a prevalent problem? >> well, it doesn't actually cost that much to test. i would point out that at least the second cow that we tested, it took them eight months and they were forced to retest it before they finally admitted that that was a case of bse. it's still unknown how many cases we have in this country, and this should be a wake-up call that we need to test more, because this testing is far, far smaller than the level of testing that is done in europe

and in japan and also even in canada. >> all right, well, thank you very much michael hansen, making the case for more testing for cows with mad cow disease. next, a new development in the child that was missing, british girl that went missing i believe in portugal. this is a story that's been going on for years, but now they think madeleine mccann is still alive. and former head of the tsa thinks the rules must change and that you should be allowed to bring your knife on a plane. [ camera clicks ] ♪ it's hard to resist the craveable nature of a nature valley sweet & salty nut bar.

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we're back with tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources around the world and we go to portugal tonight where a young british girl, madeleine mccann, went missing five years ago. you may remember her story. it captured worldwide headlines. her parents went out for dinner while on vacation. they returned to their rental home and madeleine was gone. now, british police say that she may still be alive. max foster is covering the story. max, what clues do they have? >> reporter: erin, 37 police officers trolling through 100,000 pages of evidence and they say they have come up with nearly 200 new leads. they say that's enough to convince them that madeleine mccann might still be alive. you've got to consider they have only gone a quarter of the way through all of the evidence that they have got. so british police certainly hoping that this is enough to convince the portuguese police to reopen the case. in the meantime, they have come

up with an image that they say is a likeness for madeleine as she would look like heading into her ninth birthday. and certainly the mccann family have worked closely with the police on this image, but that's an update on the case. but it's still not reopened, erin. >> that would be a miracle and something that would just be amazing. now to london and a rare sight. media tycoon rupert murdoch, the head of the news corp testified before parliament. he was grilled about his influence over britain's media and political landscape. dan rivers was there following the story in london. how did he do in the hot seat? >> reporter: i don't think rupert murdoch was particularly stumped at any point. there were a number of occasions where he paused, sometimes for about ten seconds or more, thinking about his answer. he was often quite curt, taciturn and mono syllabic at times. his alleged influence over

various political figures for the past 30 years or more has been grossly exaggerated and he angrily denied the suggestion that he had swapped political influence, favorable coverage in his newspapers to further his own business interests there. erin. >> all right, thank you. now to north korea where leaders have threatened to test an underground nuclear weapon any day. just today a top military official boasted the country is armed with, quote, powerful modern weapons that could reach the u.s. elise, what do we actually know about north korea's real nuclear ambitions? >> reporter: erin, for north korea, its nuclear program has always been a sort of bargaining chip in diplomatic negotiations and it uses it as blackmail to extract aid from the u.s. and its allies. now pyongyang has already conducted two underground nuclear tests in 2006 and 2009 and it's believed that they're going to conduct a third after that failed missile test in april. nuclear experts don't believe north korea has mastered the

miniaturization of a weapon that is fitting a nuclear warhead on a missile and having the means to deliver it, but they're afraid that this third nuclear test could help them master the technology. that's why the united states is warning north korea against that third nuclear test, saying there will be serious consequences. erin. i just flew back from israel, and israel takes security very seriously. if you've experienced it, you would know. they go through your bags, they take nothing for granted. they do a lot more than what we go through here in the united states. now, some of the more extreme examples of what we have seen recently here at home, a little boy in the wheelchair. tsa agent was checking him for explosives. or a woman sobbing uncontrollably as she submitted to a very public patdown. and then there's our recent favorite. >> i have no problems with my body. and decided that this was the most -- >> well, i do, because no one

wants to see anybody naked at the tsa, no matter how you look. fed up with what he believed was an invati invasion of privacy, he stripped down to nothing to prove he wasn't dangerous. and we have lots of ideas, on hoy to take on the unpopular tsa. kip, thanks very much and good to see you, sir. >> i'm glad to be with you, erin. >> it would be nice, you know, to avoid people stripping down naked at the tsa line. i'll start there. but you think that we just have gone way too far. that knife, liquids, all of it should be okay? >> well, i think that right after 9/11, we jumped into put security arrangements that would prevent that happening again. and as life has gone on and the security measures have taken effect, a lot are no longer really needed. and for instance, the prohibited items, swiss army knives,

baseball bats, things that could in fact injure somebody really are not a threat to take over a plane at this point. and so it takes so much time for these officers to be looking around for -- i call an easter egg hunt for whatever the small item is. and they really need to focus on bombs, guns, toxins that could take down a plane. >> i mean, i guess recent examples that we have seen, partially seen examples of stress, fatigue, those with work in the air system, with the pilot who got locked out by the co-pilot and the flight at ten dap dant. it seems that people who fly now are much more vigilant and aware. as opposed to before 9/11. >> even on 9/11 it was the fourth aircraft. the terrorists were not able to take that to completion.

that was an hour or so after the first one had happened. i think that type of hijacking is gone. and the threat is explosions on the plane. something of that sort. >> and let me just ask you a question. because i read with great interest your article in "the wall street journal" recently about when you were talking about your book and you said this. the tsa's mission is to prevent a catastrophic attack on the transportation system not to ensure that every single passenger can avoid harm while traveling. i'm trying to understand what you mean by that. is that in order to save this system, that we may need to accept some casualties? >> yes. that -- walking down the street, you can get knifed. and we have this attitude that we don't want to let any harmful objects on the plane. what i'm saying, and it's very similar to the question you asked about mad cow disease, what is the cost of doing this measure versus the benefit to

society? and it's horrible if somebody commits murder anywhere including on an airplane. but it is not worth going through every bag, looking for possible implements of damage when you can take a coke can, twist it and turn it into the 13-inch razor. so it really is not necessary from a point of view and it's a distraction to the tsa and draws passengers further apart. >> what is the tsa not ready for, because they have been on the easter egg hunt as you said? i was with secretary napolitano going through the tsa and of course they show all the bomb parts and things they found, drugs that they found. what is it they're not prepared for? >> the biggest problem you mentioned coming back from israel, what israel's strongest security point is the fact that they're public in their security -- and their security services are one. that they are together. and that way when somebody is

outside that system, it sticks out more. we have the same technology. the process and the items are the same. it's the attitude that's different. and i think what happens is that bombs -- i mean, really, if you just want the short answer to the question it's somebody entering with explosives that's able to take it on to the cabin and take a plane down. that's the number one threat. it has been for years. and it will continue to be. >> all right. well, thank you very much, kip hawley. well, it's hump day. you know what that means? i was in the middle east, right? well, camel report time.

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so it's hump day without a camel report. i spent a lot of time in the middle east lately. one of the best parts of traveling there is i always run into a camel. i stumbled on this girl at a camel market in dubai. she was going to a new home in abu dhabi. this was last week. she was angry about the move. you'll see why in a moment. i was worried and upset she might be headed to a fate that i couldn't bear to contemplate. you see, i learned about camel leather. all camels perish one day, so

leather may not be the end of the world. the tannery is just up the road in abu dhabi. it's pretty neat. the tannery has developed a new way of preserving the skins that avoids polluting. they even have a water recycling system. the product is high quality camel leather in every color and finish. and the buyers are some of the world's most famous fashion houses. i am not sure that i could ever wear leather made from camels, because i love them. but that brings meack to my girl at my market in dubai. yes, she was having none of that. that was just some of her yelling. i thought she was tied down. see, look, the second the thing yelling. it was all an act. such a diva. back tomorrow. here's "piers morgan tonight." millions of people turn to him for spiritual