>> piers, thanks very much. 10:00 here on the east coast. we begin tonight keeping them honest with a vague apology from mitt romney about an incident almost 50 years ago he says he doesn't remember. romney was in north carolina today trying to shift focus back to the economy with his speech at a manufacturing plant. the speech in which he used the word future at least four times. but it is romney's past, his very distant past, actually, all the way back to his teenage years, that got the headlines. it is today's front page, "the washington post." romney's pranks could go too far. an article that paints a young mitt romney as remembered by his classmates as something of a bully. romney was asked about it in north carolina today. >> well, i think i was one who did some stupid things in high school, and if anyone feels that they were offended by that, i certainly apologize for that. >> well, the stupid thing in question, the one getting all the attention, concerns a student at the michigan prep school romney attended. a student named john lauber who

was reportedly relentlessly teased for his presumed homosexuality and for having long bleach blond hair. five of romney's classmates told "the washington post" what they remembered about a day in 1965, a day that, quote, they came upon lauber tackled him and pinned him to the ground. lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help and romney clipped his hair with a pair of scissors. the story broke yesterday when "the washington post" posted it online ahead of today's printed edition. we did not talk about it last night on this program because we had questions about how valid it is to bring up something someone did nearly 50 years ago when they were in high school. those questions, though have not gone away. so we'll let you decide for yourself tonight whether this story itself is relevant to a presidential campaign or not. what we want to focus on is romney's response to the story. we heard what he said in north carolina today, apologizing, quote, if anyone feels they were offended, but on fox news yesterday, romney said more, including response to accusations the incident amounted to gay bullying since the victim was thought to be gay. take a look. >> i had no idea what that individual's sexual orientation

might be. going back to the 1960s, that wasn't something that we all discussed or considered. so that's simply just not accurate. i don't recall the incident myself, but i've seen the reports and not going to argue with that. there is no question but that i did some stupid things when i was in high school. and obviously if i hurt anyone by virtue of that, i would be very sorry for it and apologize for it. >> so romney says he doesn't remember the incident, five of romney's classmates remembered it well enough to go into great detail to "the washington post" in separate accounts, all these years later. we can't ask john lauber to corroborate the details. "the post" reports his sister says he died in 2004. memories can fail, no disputing that or the fact that a lot of people do stupid things in high school. romney's far from alone in that admission. what seems contradictory in romney's statement, however, saying on the one hand he does not recall the incident and on the other hand recalling that he had no idea whether john

lauber's sexual orientation was -- what the sexual orientation was perceived to be back then. as for saying he's sorry if anyone is hurt or offended, can we retire that apology. we hear it time and time again. it makes it a none apology, a watered down way to say you're sorry that makes it seem like you're not really sorry, even though you may be. most people see right through it because we heard it before, a lot of times. listen. >> i'm sorry that there is at least one of my colleagues that can't take a joke and so i apologize if i offended him. >> if anybody is offended i deeply apologize. >> i'm sorry if i offended anyone. >> if i really did offend you, i'm sorry. >> i'm sort of been guilty for it myself. a lot to talk about. i spoke with gloria borger, cnn contributor, eric erickson, and

cnn political contributor and democratic strategist james carville. james, this is something that allegedly happened 50 years ago. should there be a statute of limitations on things that happened to candidates when they were in high school, or even college? >> you know, i guess so. look, things happen in the '60s, certainly wouldn't be acceptable now this being one of them. but i don't find -- what i found kind of troubling was his response. all his responses are kind of predictable and political. and probably would have had been able to give him a better response. but i don't think this is going to be a big issue between now and the end of the election. the only caveat is people are going to start looking for other stories like this. that's the result of this. >> his response, what, that he doesn't remember it, but it wasn't anything about whether or not the guy was gay and he's sorry if somebody was offended. >> sorry if it happened. if something like this happened, i'm a little bit older than romney, i would have remembered something like this in high

school. that's not -- you -- that's something that you wouldn't forget. and the idea that the response is just so parsed and so political and so predictable, well, i don't remember it happening, but, if it did happen, feel bad about it, i'm sorry for it, that doesn't seem like a very good response. now, it is not the end of days, just like his response from rush limbaugh, calling that woman a bad word, he says, well, i wouldn't have said that. just everything that he does just oozes predictability and just politics. it is kind of different if he would have a different take other than the predictable take. >> a, eric, is this a valid story, and, b, what do you think of his response? do you believe that he didn't remember? >> i think the story -- yeah, i think the story is bs. i think his responses is the response you give when you think a story is bs, given by a bunch of story that "the washington post" danced around the fact they're all largely democrats now and won't vote for romney. one guy told another magazine, "the washington post" failed to

respond that he hadn't liked mitt romney since mitt romney refused to give him a car ride when he was 16 years old. >> the romney campaign is not denying the story. you're saying it is bs. they're not saying it is bs. they're saying -- >> i think it is absolutely bs. of course they don't want to say. he doesn't remember it, so they want to say that he doesn't remember it because then of course "the washington post" begins the infamous reporter tactic of dribbling things out and trying to make it sound like there is something there when i don't think there is something there. >> but erick, i mean, if it was something that happened, do you believe he wouldn't remember it? if somebody held somebody else down and cut their hair, do you think that is something that would be remembered? >> oh, if it happened, he would absolutely remember that. everybody remembers things like that from when they're in high school. >> gloria, what do you make of this? >> i think what is relevant here, and we have no way of knowing, you know, did mitt

romney really remember, didn't he remember, what is really relevant here is how he talks to me is how he talks about it now, that's how people make decisions when they vote about a candidate's character. and the way he's been talking about it is just odd to me because he could say, you know, i don't remember it, when i was a teenager, i was kind of a jerk sometimes, and what were regarded as pranks then are completely abhorrent now. if it did occur, i'm horrified by it. i would never want a child of mine to behave that way -- to behave that way. and use it as a teachable moment to say, i'm against all forms of bullying, it is unacceptable to me, it should be unacceptable in this country. >> eric, go ahead. >> well, james would be familiar with this back in 1992 when the george h.w. bush campaign decided they wanted to run on bill clinton being a draft dodger, a womanizer, not a good governor of arkansas and all sorts of things and the bill clinton campaign kept the focus

on the economy. and the question for me is will mitt romney be able to keep the focus on the economy this time around. >> well, you know what, i think -- i remember that campaign fairly well. and when we had the draft dodger story, we had a press conference and took out an ad in the paper, bill clinton went on "60 minutes." we dealt with it and compare this to jeremiah wright story and president obama goes right out and deals with it. every time it is something comes up -- if a democrat did this, i would still vote for them. this is not like a voting issue. what it is is i don't remember it, but if it did, it didn't happen, and could have done something along the lines of what gloria talked about, something that joe talked about in his column, everything -- it is everything is so weasely and parsed and political. and that's all. it is not the kind of event itself, you know? >> remember george w. bush's response on the dui story, right? which came in the 11th hour of

the campaign and if i recall, it was when i was young and irresponsible, i was young and irresponsible. i don't think that explanation would sit today. do you? >> better than the one that romney gave. >> well, there is a difference -- to some people there is a difference between something, you know, somebody does to themselves and something, you know, a physical act somebody does to somebody else. >> absolutely. >> right. >> totally agree. >> i don't think -- again, i go back and my point is that the actual what he did is abhorrent and people's lives, but people 50 years ago in high school, i think -- i just think the response is illustrative of something not very good. that's what i take away from it. >> i think it is the response you give when you don't believe the story. >> or when you want to end the story. one or the other. >> yeah, that too. >> eric, james, gloria, thank you.

>> sure. also today, mitt romney talked more about his views on same-sex adoption and for a candidate who gets dinged by his opponent for flip-flopping this probably won't help. listen to what he said in an interview with wbtv in charlotte, north carolina, when he was asked how his opposition to same sex marriage squares with his support for gay adoptions. >> actually, i think all states but one allow gay adoption. so that's a position which has been decided by most of the state legislators and legislatures, rather, including the one in my state some time ago. so i simply acknowledge the fact that gay adoption is legal in all states but one. >> he's not saying whether or not he supports it there, he's saying he's acknowledging where gay adoption is legal. yesterday, romney seemed to go farther saying he does support. here is what he said on fox news. >> if two people the same gender want to live together, want to have a loving relationship and want to adopt a child, in my state, individuals of the same sex are able to adopt children.

in my view, that's something which people have the right to do. but to call that marriage is in my view a departure for the real meaning of that word. >> back in 2005, romney seemed to oppose the idea of same sex couples raising kids. at an event in south carolina, he wrote, today same sex couples are marrying under the law in massachusetts. some are actually having children born to them. we've been asked to change their birth certificates to remove the phrase mother and father and replace it with parent a and parent b. it's not right on paper and it's not right in fact. the first national poll since the president's comments has just been released and the gallup poll, 13% said the president's support for same sex marriage makes them more likely to vote for him. 26% said less likely. 60% said no difference. california could soon be the first state to put serious restrictions on the controversial practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation.

"360" followed the impact this therapy had on former patients coming up. let us know what you think. we're on facebook, google plus. should this story about what romney allegedly did 50 years ago in high school, should it matter to voters? follow me on twitter @andersoncooper. let's tweet about this. up next, a shocking confession from jpmorgan chase. the bank lost $2 billion in a risky bet. didn't the banks learn anything from the financial meltdown five years ago? we'll talk to congressman barney frank next. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of people are choosing advil. i'm keith baraka and i'm a firefighter. and it's very physically demanding. if i'm sore i'm not at my best. advil is my go-to. it's my number one pain reliever.

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opened, rebounded but closed down 35 points. the debacle by jpmorgan is so bad that the ceo held an after hours conference call with reporters and industry analysts. listen. >> we've had teams from audit, legal, risk and various control functions all from corporate involved in an extensive review of what happened. we have more work to do, but it is obvious at this point that there are many errors, sloppiness and bad judgment. >> ceo jamie dimon admitting errors, sloppiness and bad judgment. a confession from him, keeping him honest, dimon downplayed concerns calling the buzz about potential losses a tempest in a teapot. quite a big teapot right there. we wanted to talk about this with congressman barney frank. dimon and executives at other banks have been furiously lobbying lawmakers and regulators to weaken new rule scheduled to take effect, the volcker rule. and it aims to end risky trading for banks for their own profit. the rule is part of the dodd-frank act passed after the financial meltdown. it was co-sponsored by

congressman barney frank. i spoke to him earlier. is this a specter of the repeat of the financial crisis of 2008? >> no, we have things in place that will prevent that from happening. it is a reminder, however, that it was important that we adopt the rules we adopted, that mean 2008 can't happen again or unlikely to happen again and it's a refutation of those who said oh, you overreacted, we know what we're doing. >> the ceo of jpmorgan, jamie dimon, actually argued the law which puts tighter regulations on banks likely caused his bank up to $600 million a year. i want to play something he said in the conference call last night about the company's losses. >> we operate in risk business and obviously it puts egg on our face and we deserve any criticism we get. so feel free to give it to us, we'll probably agree with you. but we think we run a good company, with good risk, good control and risk management. we're not in a business where we're not going to make mistakes.

it is unfortunate, it plays into the hands of a bunch of pundits out there. that's life. >> what is your take on his explanation? >> first, i want to say to a certain extent he's right. he's a good ceo and it is a well run bank. that's why we need regulation. in other words, what he's telling us is even in a very well run institution, as his is, unlike a kind of rogue operation like countrywide, these kind of mistakes will happen. that's why we have safety nets. that's why we say to him, you have to hold more capital than you would have on your own because these mistakes will happen. that's why we say when you're engaged in these derivative trades, we want people to post margin so if somebody can't make it up, we don't have all these kinds of problems. secondly, i would say and you quoted the right figure, the economist, british magazine the economist joining in this criticism of how we've overregulated these guys said you know what, it's going

to cost jp morgan chase 400 to $600 million a year as if that was an enormous sum. well, they just lost $2 billion. they just lost about five times that or four times that through their own errors. what it shows is that in fact if we have made them spend 400 to $600 million a year in the first year, it costs more to set these things up, to comply and save billions of dollars in losses, that's a pretty good deal. >> for a lot of people who don't follow this as closely as you do, can you explain how a big bank like jpmorgan losing $2 million, how it affects people out there, how it affects regular people who don't own stock in the company? what is the danger? >> the danger would be none of this is $2 billion, but if they lost so much that they couldn't pay their debts, that's why i say we begin with the requirement they keep more capital. as far as the average individual, if you're not a shareholder in jpmorgan, it won't hurt you. on the other hand, if you're trying to get a loan from jpmorgan chase, this may make it tougher because the funds they have available for

loans may shrink. that's why we said we want you to have more capital, we want -- here is what we said in the bill to a great extent. we want you to be better prepared in case you make mistakes. they were arguing, oh, no, don't worry about it, we know what we're doing. even the smartest of you, you're doing things that are so inherently risky, you've got to be better protected. and as they said, we said to the republicans, the fact that the american institution is doing this overseas is no reason to say they're not subject to regulation. >> congressman frank, appreciate your time. thank you. >> you're welcome. two girls are safe tonight after a terrifying ordeal with a man who kidnapped them. tonight, new details about their rescue in the woods of mississippi next. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer. liberty mutual auto insurance. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms.

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first state to put serious restrictions on the controversial practice of trying to change someone's sexual orientation. a follow-up and the impact this therapy had on some former patients.

crime and punishment, new details about what went down in the mississippi woods where nearly two week manhunt for this man, adam mayes, ended 24 hours ago. we reported the breaking news as it was unfolding last night. mayes had been on the fbi's ten most wanted list for a day when a tip led a s.w.a.t. team to mayes and his captives. 12-year-old alexandria bain and her sister, kyliyah. mayes allegedly killed their mom and older sister, strangled them. both girls are safe now with relatives, what they have been through is hard to imagine. here is how a police sergeant who took part in the rescue

described the moment they were found. >> i began giving commands, the little girl picked her head up, the other little girl picked her head up after another command, mr. mayes began to raise his head, i could see a weapon in his hand, i yelled gun three times loud to let my team know there was a weapon involved. we ordered mr. mayes to drop the weapon numerous times, mr. mayes raised to his knees, never brandished the gun to any of us or the children. at that time he took his life. >> martin savidge has been covering the story and retraces the final minutes. >> reporter: the manhunt for adam mayes ended on a mississippi dirt road. despite a nationwide alert, authorities felt mayes hadn't gone too far and turns out they were right because where we are now is barely two miles away from where his victims' bodies were found, at his home. authorities say it was a tip thursday that led them here, as it happened there was a s.w.a.t. team nearby. police patrols have been through

this area, at least once before. with no result. and it is easy to see why. because of the thick underbrush, it is possible for them to walk within a few yards of somebody and not even know they were there. and other than some general directions, we don't know where in the woods the final drama played out. but there are signs we're getting close. i found this, a military style red smoke grenade and if you take a look on the ground here, you can see where it was set off. now, according to the fbi, when mayes was found, they set off red smoke to alert other authorities and search crews in the area. this means that we're close, but we're not there. that's when i meet ronald roberts. you lived here all your life. >> all my life. >> reporter: he was having dinner when he realized something was up. >> blue lights, sirens, gravel flying, spinning cars, all turning in front of our house. >> reporter: roberts knows these woods like the back of his hand. and we pick up a trail. >> there is a boot print right there.

>> reporter: yeah. also looks like there is dog prints. >> you got some. >> reporter: according to authorities, the s.w.a.t. team divided in two and made their way through the woods. the trail we're on shows a lot of foot traffic. >> see that? >> reporter: a lot of boot marks? >> yeah, yeah. >> reporter: stepped on branches and things. the s.w.a.t. team knew they were on to something when they came across one of the kidnapped girls laying on the ground, alexandria. and then they saw mayes. they told him to put his hands where they could see them, instead he shot himself. >> walk down there and see what you see. that's obviously been somebody down through there. >> reporter: and suddenly there it was, the tip with all the flies, the exact place in the middle of the woods. judging by this blood on the ground that we found here, this would be the spot that according to authorities adam mayes shot himself. now, in keeping again with their account, the young girls would have been laying on their stomachs directly in front of

it. you realize two things. that phone call tip that came in from the public probably saved the lives of kyliyah and alexandria bain but not before the two girls witnessed the deaths of their mother and older sister had to watch one other person die. >> i wish the man could have been saved. i wish it hadn't happened. i wish those other two lives could be brought back. but it can't. they met their maker. i hope they were ready. >> martin savidge joins me now. three additional arrests have been made in connection with the case. what do we know about them? >> reporter: well, authorities maintained that even though their prime suspect killed himself, that there is still an active investigation under way. so now we have these three arrests announced. apparently one person was accused of giving false information, misleading information to authorities. the other two are thought to have been some way provided the weapon to adam mayes that he eventually used to take his own life.

>> there is also a $175,000 reward for whoever gave up information about mayes' whereabouts. what do we know about that? >> reporter: of course, you know, the finding of these two girls alive and well is the answer to just about everybody's prayers here. and that's the first thing they say. the next thing they talk about is they wonder who is the person that gave that information that led to the finding of mayes and who is going to get that $175,000. they are still waiting to hear the answer to that. >> all right, martin, appreciate the reporting. tragic story on so many levels. bobbi booth is adam mayes' sister-in-law, we talked to her a couple of times this week. she joins me again for another exclusive interview. what do you know about where alexandria and her sister kyliyah are tonight, how they're doing? >> i'm not. i have no idea. i haven't got any reports on the girls more than you have. >> you spoke to the sheriff's office today about possibly visiting your sister teresa in jail. what did they tell you? >> that she has to be in jail

for seven days before i'm able to visit with her. but that she was able to make phone calls. >> she's charged with -- >> sorry, she's charged with first degree murder. you're saying your sister doesn't remember what? >> she doesn't remember numbers well, so i don't think she's remembering any of the phone numbers to contact anybody. >> if you're allowed to visit her, what do you want to say to her? >> i want answers. i want to know if adam forced her to do this, you know, if so how did adam force you to do this. i'd like to know, you know, details as to what happened. >> what was their history like? >> and understand more. he was abusive to her. >> physically abusive? >> physically abusive, mentally abusive, very controlling.

>> and what is she like? you said she has trouble remembering numbers. >> right. she graduated from high school, but she graduated with a special ed diploma. she's mentally challenged. she's always been a slow learner. she's dependent. and i think adam has always kind of fed off that because, you know, if he beat the mess out of her and then say i love you, honey, she kind of accepted it and went on. >> police say she was in the garage when adam mayes strangled the two women. >> that's what i've heard. >> does that seem possible to you? >> no. i don't want to believe that. >> they also say she was in the car, even drove the car with the girls in it. >> yes.

>> if she -- >> then again, i don't want to believe that. i want to believe that she was forced to do that in some way. >> when you heard that adam mayes had shot himself, taken his own life, what did you think? >> i didn't care. the kids were safe. >> were you surprised that he would kill himself? >> no. he's a coward. he didn't want to accept and face what he had done. so he took the easy way out. >> and now your sister and his mom and some others are facing the law. what do you think is going to happen to your sister? >> my sister and his mother is going to carry the weight because people want justice and i understand it. if my sister took part in this, i want her to be punished, but i want her fairly punished. and i want people to understand the whole story and not just

bits and pieces of it. like the sheriff's department has been feeding us. >> well, bobbi booth, sorry you've been going through this. as you said, thank goodness those two girls are safe. thank you for being with us tonight, bobbi. >> thank you. california lawmakers are taking on controversial therapy that claims to turn gay people straight. despite evidence some people say it ruined their lives. we'll take a closer look. our "360" follows next. in high school, i had a physics teacher by the name of mr. davies. he made physics more than theoretical, he made it real for me. we built a guitar, we did things with electronics and mother boards. that's where the interest in engineering came from. so now, as an engineer, i have a career that speaks to that passion. thank you, mr. davies.

lawmakers in california are moving forward with a bill that if it passes would put strict limits on reparative therapy. those who practice it claim they

can change people's sexual orientati orientation. some people who underwent reparative or conversion therapy said they feel they benefitted from it. there are some who feel it caused them irreparable harm. one warned they're at risk of worsening depression or suicide. one family we spoke with last year, randi kaye has our "360" follow-up. >> when ryan kendall was 13, his mother read his diary and discovered he was gay. that was the beginning of the most painful years of his life. >> for years i thought that god hated me because i was gay. >> reporter: ryan says his parents were determined to change him. they signed him up for what is called reparative therapy, with the national association for research and therapy of homosexuality. otherwise known as narth. the therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation has been used for decades as a way to turn potentially gay children straight. >> every day i would hear this is a choice. this could be fixed.

>> reporter: did you believe that? >> i never believed that. i know i'm gay just like i know i'm short and i'm half hispanic and i never thought those facts would change. it is part of my core fundamental identity. so the parallel would be sending me to tall camp and saying if you try really hard, one day you can be 6'1 ". >> reporter: ryan says he was treated by joseph nikelosi who today is still associated with narth. >> the refrain was the religious one this is something that makes god cry, that this is something your family doesn't want for you. >> reporter: at his office, outside los angeles, we asked if he remembered treating ryan kendall about 14 years earlier. >> i'm not familiar with the name at all. >> reporter: his parents have provided bills from your office, there have been checks written to your office. but no record? >> no. >> reporter: he says that your therapy was quite harmful. he said you told him to butch up, quote/unquote. >> never. there's not our language. >> reporter: when somebody says

people like yourself, others are trying to get the gay out of people. >> that's a terrible way of phrasing it. i would rather say we're trying to bring out the heterosexuality in you. >> reporter: he says he's kept hundreds of children from growing up to be gay. he credits this man, george rekers, a researcher, a big believer that homosexuality can be prevented. he worked as a doctoral student. in a government funded experimental program, later called sissy boy syndrome. rekers treated a boy named kirk. to turn around kirk's so-called sissy behavior, kirk was repeatedly asked to choose between traditionally masculine toys like plastic knives and guns or feminine ones like dolls and a play crib. if he chose the feminine items, kirk's mother would be told to ignore him. kirk's siblings told anderson, his outgoing personality changed as a result of the therapy. >> he had no idea how to relate to people.

it is like somebody just walked up and turned his light switch off. >> reporter: he considered rekers a success story. his feminine behavior was gone, proof he said that homosexuality can be prevented. kirk's family says he was gay, and never recovered from the attempts to turn him straight. in 2003, kirk took his own life. he hanged himself from a fan in his apartment. he was 38. our producers tracked george rekers down in florida. what do you say to the family if they say the therapy you did with him as a child led to his suicide as an adult? >> well, i think scientifically that would be inaccurate to assume it was the therapy. but i do grieve for the parents now that you told me that news. i think that's very sad. >> reporter: according to the american psychiatric association, the potential risk of reparative therapy is great. including depression, anxiety, and self-destructive behavior.

the association says therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce the self-hatred already felt by patients. the doctor says his therapy isn't harmful. and he only treats people who want to change. not true, says ryan kendall. >> it led me to periods of homelessness, to drug abuse, to spending a decade of my life wanting to kill myself. it led to so much pain and struggle and i want them to know that what they do hurts people, hurts children, has no basis in fact, and they need to stop. >> reporter: randi kaye, cnn, los angeles. >> digging deeper now, i'm joined by dr. jack drescher, psychiatrist who has written and edited many books and ryan

kendall, who we just met in the piece. he's studying political science at columbia university, hoping to be a lawyer one day to advocate on behalf of kids. ryan, you were in this therapy for years, correct? >> i was in the therapy for a period of a year to a year and a half, from about the age of 14, 14 1/2 to 16. >> and the doctor, he essentially -- what was he saying was the cause of you being gay? >> i know that he tends to blame the parents in his therapy saying that a distant mother or overbearing mother and distant father caused that. i didn't really engage on the issues of homosexuality with him because i just didn't buy what he was telling me, which was once again that being gay is -- there is something wrong with it, it can be fixed. >> this idea that he -- that this doctor knows the origins of homosexuality and that it lies in the parents, a distant father, that seems antiquated and without evidence. >> there is no evidence the people who practice these therapies tell the families

their beliefs, nothing based on fact. we don't know today what cause homosexuality. we don't know what causes heterosexuality. i think it is a shame, you know, for parents who love their children to take their -- to take those children to therapists who are going to blame the parents when it is not their fault. >> hearing your story, it is so horrible to think about for years you considering suicide based after going through this therapy that what did it make you feel about yourself? >> it is a terrible world when you think there is something fundamentally wrong with you, when you think god doesn't love you because of who you are, when you think you're perverted or dysfunctional. you grow to hate yourself in a lot of ways. you internalize all of that messaging that you're not good enough, that you're up lovable and that plays out in very damaging emotional consequences in lgbt people's lives. it did mine. >> some still claim to -- that it worked, claimed they're no longer gay.

and the more you talk to them, they'll admit they still have same sex orientation, they're still attracted to people of the same sex, they're just forcing themselves, repressing themselves so they don't act out on it. that doesn't seem like a healthy way to live. >> people who have been through the treatments don't call themselves heterosexual. they call themselves ex-gay. because they're not really heterosexuals the way convention heterosexuals are. >> they don't have that, like, in the -- their heart is not attracted to somebody of the opposite sex. >> usually not. some people -- some people may be bisexual by nature, they have attractions to both, but the truth of the matter is that their identity, who i think i am as a person doesn't necessarily have to match what their attractions are. that's how people survive in this way. they say, you know, i used to be gay, i'm still attracted to men, but i'm not gay anymore. they're still attracted to men. so what does that mean? >> if they're entering into marriages or forcing themselves not to have

relationships with people they're attracted to, what does that do to a person? >> for some people, it can be very harmful. some people have gone into marriages, had children, never lost their attractions, then got divorced, sometimes religious people who get divorced. >> a number of the people who even have run these so-called ex-gay organizations have now come forward and said, actually, it doesn't work. >> many of the leaders of the ex-gay movement are stepping away from their earlier claims that everybody can change. most people believe that very few people can really change. >> for you, what was the hardest part, ryan? >> there is no way to tell you what was the hardest part. was it losing my family? was it hating myself? was it being suicidal or depressed for 12 years, not being able to go to school until now? there is no worst part. it was a terrible decade in my life. and i'm one of the lucky ones who survived. so, you know, the therapy itself is a terrible thing to do. it lets families believe there is this false hope that their kid can be straight and normal

and it is damaging, it destroyed my family. >> we did this piece on the sissy boy experiments and some of the allegedly scientific research that is used by this group narth, when you start to scratch away at it and look at the details, they were still using george rekers experiments and he was claiming success with kirk when in fact kirk had committed suicide and his family didn't even know until the years later that kirk was this alleged success story of george rekers. >> there is a lot of misinformation transmitted by the people who offer these treatments. the american psychological association had a report that came out in 2009 no scientific basis that any of these treatments work. >> is legislation the right answer? do you believe it is in california? >> i believe that legislation is appropriate in this instance. what is at stake here are lives. especially kids' lives. i think it is irresponsible for organizations to offer this therapy when it is not supported

by science, when there is anecdotal evidence of harm, when we know that changing someone's sexual orientation is not an appropriate goal. recently president obama came out in support of marriage. that's because society increasingly realizes that lgbt, people gay like myself, are just like anyone else and pretty soon we'll realize that means we treat them equally, we don't try to make them who they're not because it is not possible and we give them equal rights. >> do you think there should be legislation? >> i've been speaking with my colleagues in california, psychologists and psychiatrists, there is concern about the wording of the particular legislation. something has to be done. the legislation has done one good thing, it's made it a national issue. we're talking about it on the air tonight and in the newspapers. i think my personal opinion is that if you have the regulatory agencies, the people who watch people's medical licenses, psychology license, if those people are informed about the issues, then perhaps those people can take it up when the complaint is made against someone who does this kind of treatment. >> we'll continue to follow it.

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this weekend the cnn documentary vets wanted looks at a devastating reality that vets face when they come home, they can't find jobs. it's all too common, their stories narrated by a former army sergeant, j.r. martinez.

>> when i was asked to be part of the documentary, i absolutely said yes right off the bat. >> welcome home. >> because it's important to raise awareness about guys coming home and how difficult it is for them to be able to find employment. >> we have been watching you for the whole year. the whole time you knocked it out of the park over there. and we're so proud of you. and glad to have you home. let me hear one big georgia cheer. >> coming home, finding work. that's on everybody's mind right now. >> a federal law protects the jobs of national guard soldiers. those who had jobs before they left can go back to them. but half the soldiers at the 877 are coming home unemployed. >> when you left your job, you were supposed to let them know that you were going for military service. did you all do that? >> some of our soldiers are going on multiple deployments because they don't have employment in the civilian sectors. others where they work is going out of business so the protections that are in place

aren't applicable. sometimes they are getting terminated against the protections that are in place. >> well, the documentary "vets wanted" airs this sunday only on cnn. i hope you watch. today brought another reminder where kids and live tv can be a, well, a messy combination. the ridiculist is next. [ female announcer ] research suggests

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there's no other auto insurance product like it. better car replacement, available only from liberty mutual. it's a better policy that gets you a better car. call... or visit one of our local offices today, and we'll provide the coverage you need at the right price. liberty mutual auto insurance, responsibility -- what's your policy? time for the ridiculist. tonight we're adding shows that book kids on live tv. don't get me wrong. kids are great. i love kids. i know they say the darnedest things but they have the darnedest bathroom emergencies. take for example, this morning's third hour, not to be confused

for the fourth through tenth hours of the "today" show. natalie morales was attempting to interview the world's youngest member of mensa, a 3-year-old named emmy lynn who has an iq of 135, pretty impressive. turns out she had more important things on her mind. >> my belly hurts. my belly hurts. >> oh, no, too many doughnuts in the green room. that's not good. >> right there, i would have bailed. you can already tell what's coming. al roker and i would have been halfway to the emergency exit. not natalie morales. she was not letting the world's smartest toddler dump out of that interview. >> does she like these other cards here. what is this one? >> oh, no. >> oh, sweetie, obviously to raise a 3-year-old with such a high iq, it takes a lot as a parent, right? >> i have to go poop. >> she has to go to the

bathroom. >> that would have made a segment, uh-oh, where are kathie lee and hoda when you need them. a tip for emy lynn though. i'm not saying you should have pooped on the set, but they have plenty of money for a new sofa, if you want a lesson on how to get out of a "today" show interview, look no further than the vomiting balloon boy, falcon heene. >> they told me it was for some tv show. that's what he was referring to. >> oh! >> that's what he was referring to when -- when he made that statement. >> and i know i want to point out that the sheriff's office said last night, a few moments ago, he got ill. let's take a break so your family can gather itself. >> that's how it's done. when you're up against meredith vieira, bring your a game, you got to do it sometimes. i should be the last person to offer advice about how to handle kids on tv. natalie morales, just be glad you do not have to fill in for larry king the night nancy grace decided to bring her twins for a visit.

>> anderson, are you ready? >> yes. >> who should i try to -- you better come hold them. here they go. here he goes. here he goes. here he goes. >> would you want these kids to follow in your footsteps? >> i want them to do whatever makes them happy. here she goes. >> want a piece of paper? >> uh-oh. >> uh-oh. >> anderson, what did you do to him? >> i didn't do anything. >> daddy. >> you know, anderson, trying to work with two children is not easy. >> tell me about it. i'm sweating like dripping sweat. what do you want from me? try hanging out with nancy grace and her kids. as for the "today" show, they took a commercial break, so disaster aveverted for the time being, until the next time when the television gods decide to unload on the ridiculist. thanks for watching. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. >>