in a statement, this -- i believe that each state has the duty and the right to secure our borders and preserve the rule of law, particularly when the federal government has failed to meet its responsibilities. nothing really specific. and keeping them honest, nothing on the campaign plane, which was heading to arizona. he stayed in the front of the plane away from the press. he let a staffer handle reporters who were trying to get some answers. listen. >> does he support the law as it was drafted in arizona? >> the governor supports the right of states. >> does he have a position on the law or no position? >> the governor has his own immigration policy, which he laid out in orlando and in the primary, which he would implement as president. whereas obama spent four years in the office and has yet to address it in a meaningful way. >> but does the governor have a position on the arizona law besides supporting the right of states?

>> this debate is sprung from the president failing to address this issue. so each state is left and has the power to draft and to enact their own immigration policy. >> but the arizona law does very specific things. does the governor support those things that the arizona law does? >> we've addressed this. >> what is his position on the actual law in arizona? >> again, each state has the right within the constitution to craft their own immigration law >> but does he think arizona did a good job? >> okay, so he didn't say much there. reporters, including cnn's jim acosta, asked that question 16 times in all. as you saw, not a lot of answers except that sort of generic statement, which governor romney largely repeated this afternoon. fair to say he's trying to avoid specifics on 1070 in particular an immigration policy in general. on 1070, the shift began just after the cnn debate in arizona

when he suggested that arizona should be a model for the nation. >> you've talked, governor, about self-deportation. if businesses do their job asking for the right documents, the people will leave. but what about arresting? should there be aggressive, seek them out, find them and arrest them, as sheriff arpaio advocates? >> i think you see a model in arizona. they passed a law here which says people who come here and try and find work, that the employer is required to look them up, e-verify. this e-verify system allow employers in arizona to know who's here legally and not here legally. >> the romney campaign later denied he was talking about 1070 as a national model. spokeswoman andrea saul said, quote, governor romney supports the right of states to craft laws that assist the federal government in enforcing immigration laws, particularly when the federal government has failed in its duty to enforce those laws, which sounds a lot like 1070. so is the campaign trying to

have it one way for hard-liners and another way for independents and especially latinos? that's what some people are suggesting. you just heard what he said so you can decide that for yourself. in his statement today, mr. romney said one more thing, quote, as candidate obama, he promised to present an immigration plan during his first year in office but four years later, we are still waiting. unquote. so, keeping them honest, how valid is the governor's claim that president obama has broken his word on immigration? well, here's what he said on univision during the campaign. >> we will have in the first year an immigration bill that i strongly support and that i'm promoting. >> well, 3 1/2 years later, there is no bill. in fact, many people, democrats included, have criticized the president for taking his eye off the ball. not making immigration reform a real priority. to be fair, though, late in 2010, president obama tried by failed to pass the dream act.

it went through in the house. got 55 votes in the senate. 5 less than were needed to break a republican filibuster. at the time, democrats were two members shy of a filibuster-proof majority. knowing the bill was going to fail, several democrats voted no. as for president obama, here's what he had said about his unfulfilled promise. >> mr. president, excuse the personal question. i grew up in a generation that has lived with the unfulfilled promise of immigration reform. and i'm not that young. and you think if you are re-elected, you'll be the president that gets it done? and can you promise you'll do it within the first year of your second term? >> i can promise that i will try to do it in the first year of my second term. i want to try this year. >> joining us this evening, republican strategist and former huntsman 2012 national hispanic chair woman anna navarro is with us. and the former special adviser to president obama, author of "rebuild the dream." also the name of the initiative he co-founded. nice to see both of you.

anna, who do you think is -- this is a win for, the supreme court decision? >> i think in the short term, it's going to give obama a bump. i've been seeing the reaction in the latino community today. and there is fear, there is outrage, by the section that is still there. i think romney needs to be stronger and more aggressive, in engaging on immigration. i'm getting increasingly frustrated as a republican hispanic not seeing him engage. there is absolutely no doubt that obama broke his promise. there's no doubt that he's vulnerable on this issue. there's no doubt that it's his biggest liability with latinos. but he will only be vulnerable if romney puts on the gloves and engages. and he's got to do so unequivocally. for some reason, he's been unwilling to do so. so, you know, he dug himself into a hole during the primaries. he's got to proactively dig himself out of that hole. telling us that obama is bad is not enough. he's got to tell us that he's good and what his plan is.

so i am very frustrated. i am eager to hear mitt romney do more, say more, and show some engagement and show himself as a real challenger to obama on this issue. >> he's been very, very vague. let me read the tweet you had today. i confess as a republican hispanic trying to put a positive spin on romney immigration nonstatements. well, let's just say it ain't easy. when he does speak, he's been -- he doesn't really articulate an answer to what the people are asking. what do you want to hear him say? >> it ain't easy, soledad. i've been at it now for a while. and that's it for me. i want to hear him say some specifics. it's very difficult to put a positive spin when he's not addressing some of the key questions. he's talking -- he's getting some very thoughtful and good proposals on fixing legal immigration and how it will affect the illegal immigration problem. let's be clear here. saying that fixing legal immigration is going to solve the illegal immigration problem

and solve the issue for the undocumented here is like saying we can fix the obesity problem by selling more lettuce. it doesn't happen that way. we need specific proposals. >> let's talk about president obama. in some ways, is this a lose-lose for him? he didn't reform immigration. as you heard just a moment ago he promised he would do. he had a win with doe to do it. he's also had a large number of deportations. how big a problem is this for him? >> first of all, the outrage you just heard is the outrage i'm hearing all across the country from latinos on every side of the political spectrum. last time you had somebody running for president out of massachusetts, he wrote a book called "profiles in courage." this guy is "profile unless cowardice." where is mitt romney. >> but i asked you about president obama, sir. >> sure, fair enough. i think president obama is -- has done the right things now. he has tried to work with this congress on so many issues. they stopped him every time. they stopped him on the dream act. they stopped him on the jobs bill. he's now showing real courage.

the real heroes here are those dream act young people who have stood up. they said, listen, we are aspiring citizens. we want to be a part of this country. the president stood with them. obama said they're looking -- not obama, romney said that the dream act students who have taken the country's hearts by storm are just looking for a handout. that's the hole he dug himself into. he can't hug and kiss the tea party and then try to hug and kiss the latino community. >> you heard a moment ago president obama was basically saying i didn't really deliver on my promises, you know, and give me another term and i'll do it. that could be a tough sell. >> well, but here's reality. this president came in promising to be bipartisan. the other side said from the beginning their number one priority was to make sure he failed. they made sure he failed even on the dream act. now he says, listen, i'm a good smart student here. i've learned i got to lead now on these tough issues. and he is doing it. the young people have inspired him.

they brought the best out in this president. he's bringing the best out in this country. here's the problem you have with romney. you've got a situation where arizona has now become the alabama of the new century. what alabama was to black folks in the last century, arizona has now become. this president is clear. he does not agree with the direction of arizona. where is mitt romney? mitt romney is being a profile in cowardice. he's losing latinos on both sides of the aisle over his cowardice. >> i'm going to give you the last question, anna. when you look at the polls at the end of the day, people don't say immigration is their number one issue. sometimes it's not even number three. to what degree is it really going to affect the race? >> the way that the race -- >> of course it's not the -- >> hold on one second -- >> i think she was asking me the question. >> sorry, sorry. >> of course it's not the number one issue. latinos are at 11% unemployment under obama. that's going to take priority over immigration. what immigration is, is a trust issue. we want to know, are you with us or are you against us? it's an issue where a candidate

can establish a personal connection. and i want to tell you something, soledad. we're going to be talking reality check here and keeping them honest. obama's going to come in, if he wins a second term, as a lame duck president from day one. into a congress that is now a poisoned well, because he took executive action as opposed to working in congress. he had his best opportunity to pass immigration in his first two years, when he had a democrat senate and a democrat house. timing in politics matters. i'm not sure he's going to be able to do in the second four years what he didn't do in his first. or why we should believe that he can. >> so we have one candidate who's not giving any specifics on his immigration plan when it comes to undocumented workers and another who you say can't be effective in the next four years. that doesn't leave the voters lots of choice. >> i think you've got the choice exactly right. we've got one candidate, barack obama who makes big promises, talking real pretty, and then doesn't deliver. and then we've got another candidate who talks without saying anything and really not

making any specific promises. so for the latinos, it's not much of a choice. >> that's our final word, van jones, anna navarro, thank you. more now on what is said about the reform law. were there clues in today's opinion? let's get right to chief national correspondent john king. talk a little bit about the politics. senior legal analyst jeff toobin, has the supreme court skinny for us. jeff, let's start with you. do you see any, if you read the tea leaves, anything in this decision that could illuminate what might happen on thursday? >> i don't think there's anything in the opinions per se. the interesting thing is if you look at how the distribution of opinions has gone, the justices always try to share the responsibilities for the big cases. and you have anthony kennedy now having written the immigration case today. it really does look -- there are

only three cases left and two of them are pretty minor. it really does look like chief justice roberts is going to write the health care opinion. given his performance and oral argument, that is not something that i think would fill hearts of the obama administration with joy. he's a very conservative republican. he was skeptical of the law. i think that's one tea leaf to read about how health care is going to come out. >> so, let's talk about the politics. you heard mitt romney -- i was going to say what he said, but really what he didn't say, which is kind of just dodge the question consistently, his people dodging the question specifically about the specifics of what happened in 1070. how does this affect the race do you think? is it a good plan to say nothing, focusing on the economy, see if you can get past this part of the debate? >> you can understand that he only wants to talk about the economy and only wants to talk about the president's performance. but soledad, we have 130 days to go. it's not going to work all the way. when it comes to immigration, it's a very tough one.

governor romney desperately needs to improve his standing among latino voters. otherwise, by nevada, new mexico, maybe arizona, if you can't win those states -- colorado as well, if you can't win those states, then you have to perform in places that are tough for republicans, like pennsylvania. every time you reach out to the middle, to latinos, you risk alienating the conservative base. he's been cautious on immigration. he has been out there clearly. remember, he had to deal with the health care issue in the primary. where all of the conservative challengers said you can't trust him because he passed massachusetts, which was then the model for the obama legislation. on health care, it's a different model. the republicans are going to face pressure to say, what would you do? because while you can make the case that overall the obama health care law is unpopular, and the polling is mixed, but you can say it's unpopular. pre-existing condition coverage is very popular. letting kids stay on their parent's health insurance after they leave college is very popular. there will be demand on the republicans to say what would you do if this law gets tossed. >> jeff, let me ask you a question about section two,

which is the part that remains standing in the law and how it's being interpreted. if you stop people -- if they're suspected of a crime that you can stop them and you can ask them about their immigration status. but that same ruling says you can't force people to carry their papers and turn them over. isn't the that completely contradictory? how do you see this practically speaking playing out? >> there are four divisions. there were four provisions of the arizona law, three of them were rejected, one of them -- the show us your papers section -- was approved. i spent the day trying to figure out what the difference was between the three that were struck down and the one that was approved. it's very hard to tell. i think this means that as all the other states weigh whether to change their laws and then courts weigh the challenges to those laws, we're still in a bit of a mess on this. i think the guidance from the supreme court was less than

clear here. so the issue of what's permissible and what's not, it's a little clearer than it was this morning. but it's not totally clear by any means. >> jeff toobin and john king, thanks, appreciate it. let us know what you think. we're on facebook. or you can follow me on twitter. it's soledad underscore o'brien@twitter. coming up next, men and women who were sterilized against their will and the state that says it wants to make amend bus they can't afford to. you'll see how low the price tag actually is and what else the state is spending money on instead. >> if it happened to some of theirs, their family members, i think they would be the first one to run and shout for compensation.

welcome back. another keeping them honest report. now, last december, we told you about the more than 60,000 people who were sterilized by force right here in the united states. men, women, even children, who were deemed undesirable and unworthy of reproducing. it was called eugenics. a pretty dark chapter in american history. charles holt was just 19 years old when he was sterilized. here's what he told senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen.

>> they sent me to rex hospital and then they just pushed me in the room and gave me gas. i just went off to sleep. then when i woke up finally, i noticed something was wrong and -- and they told me what they done. i was -- i wasn't a happy camper. >> reporter: what they had done was surgery, a vasectomy to make him sterile. but why? it turns out the order came from the state, which says he was feeble minded and unworthy of having children. >> i want to be like any other young man. to try to have a family. and have some kids that i could call my own. it's -- it happens that way.

>> 32 states had eugenics programs at one time or another. north carolina, where charles holt lives, sterilized more than 7,000 people between 1929 and 1974. 1974, which is really not all that long ago. in fact, as many as 1,800 of these victims could still be alive. north carolina was poised to become the first state in the nation to compensate its eugenics survivors for the harm done to them. last week legislators rejected a plan to pay each victim $50,000. they said they couldn't find enough money in the new budget. keeping them honest, we wanted to know what north carolina is choosing to spend its money on instead. senior medical correspondent elizabeth cohen joins me now elizabeth, they talk about a $10 million price tag potentially to compensate all the forced sterilization victims who are still alive. how big is the budget? where does that fit in? >> just to put it in context, soledad, it's a $20 billion budget. we looked around to see what

things north carolina was able to fit into that budget and so here is a partial list. for example, they found $1.5 million to give to the north carolina symphony. $500,000 to the north carolina grape growers council. $500,000 to a private culinary school. $300,000 for the north carolina transportation museum. and $100,000 to the north carolina oyster sanctuary. and $420,000 for a future gubernatorial inauguration. this one is interesting, $5 million in economic development projects but what those projects are is undisclosed. we tried to find out and we were unable to. >> so it seems at least at first glance that there's enough money there. why would the legislatures not want to compensate the victims? >> we asked legislatures this. they said a combination of things. some cried poverty. some said these are tough economic times. we have to make choices. some said it worry us to

compensate these victims because what if we're setting a precedent? what if we're leaving ourselves open to other people who want compensation for the injustices that were done to them? and they mentioned, for example, slavery. so they were worried about sort of opening the flood gates, so to speak. >> what happens with these victims? >> this is obviously not good news for the victims. when i visited with charles holt, the man we visited earlier, he just was devastated that he might only get $50,000. he thought he should get more. i'm sure this news has devastated him even more. he broke down to me, as he described what had happened. now there are some legislatures in north carolina who are passionate about compensating people like charles holt. they said they'll continue to work for this. but i'll tell you, soledad, this isn't the first year they haven't put this in the budget. they've said no to this for several years in the past. and some legislatures say they'll keep on pushing. >> elizabeth cohen, thanks, elizabeth. >> to come so close to finally getting compensation for all

that was lost and then suddenly to have it fall apart has to be an incredible blow. elaine was a child when her nightmare began. of she was raped and became pregnant. she gave birth and then without her consent was sterilized. she didn't learn the truth until years later. earlier, i spoke to elaine riddick and her attorney willie gary. miss riddick, we'll start with you if i can. when you heard the state of north carolina decided that, in fact, they were not going to stick to that deal, to compensate people who had been sterilized, what did you think? >> i was crushed. i was hurt. i was humiliated. i was degraded. i just didn't know -- i was just really disappointed that they decided not to award the victims money for the sterilization. >> now they're saying $10 million was set aside. they were looking at roughly $50,000 per person. but they're not going to give

you the money. what do you do now? >> well, i think i'm going to allow my attorney to say -- to speak on that. >> okay. >> i think one of the things that we're focusing on is sitting down with the powers to be in north carolina, to see if this matter can't be worked out without any litigation whatsoever. i think, you know, the house bill really spoke for itself. and even the governor said it was a great opportunity to make a wrong right. and that's what we're really concerned with. you have a lot of people, thousands of people, that were misused and abused. there's no question about that. men were castrated and women were sterilized and it wasn't right. >> you have said you felt like you were raped twice, once by

your attacker and a second time in these proceedings where what was agreed upon -- and i guess the sterilization that took place. i guess now feeling like what was promised to you is no longer going to be promised to you. what would you say to those legislators who have decided they don't want to compensate you? >> well, you have to look at where they are, who they are. if it happened to some of theirs, their family members, i think they would be the first one to run and shout for compensation, you know. but because it did not happen to them, they are showing no empathy or sympathy toward the victims. >> elaine riddick and attorney willie gary, thank you for talking to me this evening. i certainly appreciate it. a lot more happening tonight, including the showdown over the downing of a turkish jet by syria. we have the latest developments when 360 continues.

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jerry sandusky is in jail in pennsylvania after being found guilty of 45 counts related to child sexual abuse, what his attorney said today about the next legal move. and i'll speak with two of the jurors from the trial. that and much more when 360 continues.

growing tension to tell you about tonight between turkey and syria. friday morning, syria shot down a turkish fighter jet. friday evening it looked like both sides were trying to keep

things from blowing up. since then, events have deepened the crisis. it's looking more and more likely that neither of the victims of the f-4 phantoms' two-man crew survives. today, the turkish government accused the syrians of fire on another plan during the search effort. turkey's foreign minister calling that a hostile act. western diplomats condemning the shootdown. turkish media reporting that a syrian general and two colonels have defected. more now from ivan watson on the ground in turkey. we spoke just a short time ago. now we're actually talking about a second plane, a second turkish plane. this happened last friday. what happened? >> well, it sounds like the syrian anti-aircraft defenses were rather trigger happy on friday if we can trust the turkish government's word for it. they say that after syrian anti-aircraft fire brought down the turkish f-4 phantom jets in

the eastern mediterranean on friday, when the turks sent other helicopters and planes and boats to that area to rescue, find the wreckage, and rescue the two pilots who are still missing, i might add, that their casa transport plane, which is a big, fat, propellered, slow moving transport plane, then started taking fire again from syrian anti-aircraft defenses. it was not hit but, clearly, a very tense moment. that prompted the turks to have to reach out to the military to please let them try to find their missing plane. >> there's been lots of debate about whether or not that jet was in syrian airspace or not. is there any answer on that yet? >> well, there are two conflicting narratives here. the syrians saying, hey, we acted in self-defense. this warplane was in our territorial waters when we shot it down. flying at low altitude. it was a threat.

the turks say it did cross into syrian airspace. but then crossed out and it was hit outside of airspace. while identifying itself on open channels and not armed either. and they're calling this an act of aggression and they're clearly trying to marshal international support and political domestic support for whatever measures the turks may take yet next. it's not clear what that will be though. because already relations between those two neighbors are at, like, probably some of the worst we've seen in the last ten years. the turks have pulled their ambassador out of syria. they've publicly called on the syrian president to step down for widespread allegations of human rights abuses. the syrian military killing thousands of its own citizens over the course of the last year soledad. >> we know there's a nato meeting tomorrow where a lot of this will be discussed. do you expect turkey will call for nato to respond? of course if one nato nation is attacked, it's considered to be all nato nations attacked under i think it's article 5?

>> they could invoke article 5. the question is, will the allies, do they have the appetite for another middle eastern conflict? and we've seen a great reluctance from western capitals to try to intervene militarily in the ongoing bloodshed in syria. there's also a question, does turkey want to get involved in a conflict there. and the turks have said, we don't want a war there. but they're going to be under pressure, soledad, to show some kind of muscular response to the loss not only of one of their warplanes but also, quite possibly, two of their airmen, their pilots, who are still missing days after this plane was shot down. >> we'll see what comes out of that nato meeting. ivan watson for us this evening, thank you, ivan. and we're following other stories tonight as well. susan hendricks has a 360 news and business bulletin. hey, susan.

>> egypt's president elect mohamed morsi moved into the president's office today. it is unclear when he will take the oath of office. right now, all real political power in egypt is held by the military. the house is expected to vote thursday on citing eric holder for contempt of congress. that's according to a republican leadership aide. the house oversite committee recommended the vote for holder not handing over the documents. george zimmerman's lawyer has asked a florida judge to release zimmerman on bond once again. his previous bail was revoked because he failed to reveal all of his financial information. zimmerman is charged in the shooting death of 17-year-old trayvon martin back in february. stocks took a nose-dive due to renewed fears about the stability of the euro zone. the dow lost 138 points. the nasdaq and s&p plunged as well. sad news, lonesome george

has died in the galapagos island in ecuador. the giant tortoise was believed to be more than 100 years old. george was the last surviving member of his sub species, purebred pinta island tortoise. they have tried to get him a mate but we heard george preferred bachelorhood. more serious stuff is ahead tonight. we're talking about jerry sandusky's defense team. now saying he's going to appeal his child rape conviction. i'm going to speak with two jurors from that trial coming up next.

more than 10,000 people have been forced from their homes by wildfires in colorado. we'll have a live update when we continue. in crime and punishment sw

in crime and punishment tonight. jurors in jerry sandusky's child sex abuse scandal speak out. in just a moment i'll talk with two of them. first, the latest. sandusky is planning to appeal his convictions on 45 counts involving ten victims over the course of more than 15 years. the jury reached a verdict late on friday. sandusky's bail was revoked. and he was taken to jail. the judge says he'll be sentenced in just about 90 days. a member of sandusky's defense team says he'll appeal the verdict but that motion can't be filed until after the sentencing. for now, sandusky is being evaluated and will probably be sent to a sex offender unit in the state prison system. that's according to one of his attorneys. sandusky is 68 years old and will likely spend the rest of his life behind bars. jurors in the case deliberated

for 21 hours before they reached their verdict. joining me this evening, juror number 5, joshua harper. and juror number 11, anna van curen. nice to have both of you. josh, let's begin with you, if i can. you have said this is about beginning of a time to heal. at the same time, are you thinking about others who need to be prosecuted? is it the end or is it in some ways the beginning? >> yeah, i think very much that it's a beginning. you know, because, you know, by our verdict, we made a statement that we believe the victims. and this might give other victims courage to speak out as well. >> anna, tell me a little bit about deliberations. were they angry? were people on the same page? were people emotional? the testimony was just brutal to hear reports about. >> yeah. in the -- >> i'm going to ask anna that question. go ahead, anna. >> sure. the deliberations were very calm and methodical i think.

we had had two weeks to get to know each other. and we already had -- were -- had a sense of team. even just as we began the deliberations. so everybody was very respectful. and wanted to hear what others had to say. >> joshua, you described sandusky as creepy at one point in one of your views. you said you were watching him very closely, his face, his emotions. and you're watching those who were testifying on the stand as well. what did you see? >> yes. well, i didn't see anything in the victims that would lead me to think they were not credible. but then i also took a look at sandusky while he was watching the victims testify. and it seemed to be that he was kind of reminiscing of the victims. and -- >> what do you mean by that? >> well, he would kind of lean in towards them and pick his chin up a little bit and just kind of -- like he was thinking about the victims and his behavior with them.

>> that struck you as creepy? >> yeah, i would say, a little creepy. >> ann, did you want to see jerry sandusky testify on his own behalf in this trial? he did not, as you know. >> right. yes, i would want to see him testify. you know, we had to see all the victims and witnesses on the stand and tell their stories. it would have been nice for jerry sandusky to be on that stand as well and have to go through that same interview. >> i know that you guys, josh, were in deliberations when matt sandusky said that, in fact, he had been molested by his father, jerry sandusky. so that wasn't part of the trial really. but i wonder if now you feel like others could have done more, that there are other people sort of culpable or at least knew what was happening. >> yeah, that's very true. you know, it does seem that there was a big cover-up that

happened. fortunately, you know, the testimony that was given and the victims that came forward was enough, you know, to convict him and so that's very fortunate. >> and what do you think was the most critical piece of evidence that you heard, that sort of made the case for you? >> i would say it was the victim's testimony. all of their testimony was very compelling. >> would you agree with her? i know that you have said that the consistency in the testimony was something that was sort of a red flag for you, joshua. >> yes, definitely, that consistency. we saw a common thread throughout what was happening to all the victims. and beyond that, i would say michael mcqueary's testimony and ron petrovsky, the janitor, his testimony. because they weren't victims themselves. and so i didn't feel that they had a reason to lie. if they observed this behavior from sandusky, then, you know, he was capable of these things.

and so that gave more credibility to the witnesses. >> ann, when you were hearing some of this testimony and some of it, as said, was just horrific. were other jurors emotional and crying and disturbed by it? it was so graphic and, you know, just really terrible. >> there were moments when some of the jurors, including myself, would leave the courtroom for a recess and have to deal with some very strong feelings, especially after the victims' testimony. some of the victims were not calm and collected and that was hard to see. >> joshua, i know there are a lot of questions about whether people who had an affiliation with penn state would be able to weigh in on a case that was so involving penn state. you're a graduate. i know ann is employed at penn state. did you think it had any impact at all on the case you heard and the decision you came to? >> no, absolutely not.

i believe that we were all very impartial and objective. and just looking at the evidence. you know, it didn't matter who it was or who he was affiliated with. if he did these things, he did these things, based on the evidence. >> joshua harper and ann van curen, thanks for both of you for talking with me, i appreciate it. as wildfires are burning in the west, florida's gulf coast is being pounded by heavy rain and flooding. chad myers has a look at both of those parts of the country and where relief may come next. only about 80% of your part b medical expenses. the rest is up to you. so consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like all standardized medicare supplement plans, they help save you up to thousands in out-of-pocket costs. call today to request a free decision guide. with these types of plans,

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we're following extreme weather. in florida, tropical storm debby has caused widespread flooding with much more rain expected. the governor has declared a state of emergency there. one family was stranded offshore on their vacation house on dog island and had to be rescued by the coast guard. five adults, two children, four dogs all airlifted out. pretty dramatic stuff. colorado, fire is the danger there. firefighters battling at least seven wildfires, more than 10,000 people have been forced to flee their homes. that brings us to meteorologist chad myers. let's start with debby, chad, if we can. >> debby stopped. literally stopped in its tracks, soledad. no movement whatsoever. we had some movement earlier today off to the east.

when a tropical storm or hurricane stops, they just dump loads of rain in one spot. it happened today just south of tallahassee, florida. getting reports of 16 inches of rainfall. the forecast is for this to get a little faster and move offshore. as it moves, it will spread the rain away. so we won't get all that rain in one spot like we have now. by tomorrow morning, we have crews on the way, just south of tallahassee, the flooding pictures that you will see on this network will be dramatic. if you can get 16 inches of rainfall in 24 hours, flooding is going to occur. for the next couple of days, it's going to be south here of the area that's flooding right here. this is apalachicola to tallahassee, this is where it's flooding right here. this white area here is a forecast rainfall of 10 inches or more in the next 24 hours. >> they're having other problems as well? >> yes, you never want to see the pink on the map. they're also having record high

temperatures, denver colorado 105 today. that ties the all-time record for any day in any month for any year for denver, colorado. 105 today. they also had some lightning with some of these thunderstorms. some of these thunderstorms are so dry, they don't rain. high park fire, 83,000 acres are now burned. 130 square miles. it's 90 degrees on the fire line. there are 2,000 firefighters on the fire line right now. tomorrow's high gets to 98 degrees. have you to understand, it is probably hotter near the fires, of course. the waldo canyon fire at 3,400 acres. 0% containment. >> looks bad, all right, chad, thank you for the update. coming up or counting down, the top five ridiculists so far. there was one silver fox and one cougar. that's up next. all energy development comes with some risk,

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well, it is just about halfway through the year so what better time to count down the top five riduculist of 2012 so far. you've been voting for your favorites at ac360.com. and tonight in at number five, actually the only time anderson has done the ridiculist in front of a live audience. 360 was coming out of the college of charleston that night back in january. take a look. >> time now for the riduculist. tonight, we're adding a cougar controversy that has sunk its

teeth into one town in utah. in draper, utah, a new high school is opening next and students were asked to choose a mascot. future students took a vote and they decided they wanted to be the cougars. that's when the claws came out. the school district superintendent said he got a lot of e-mails and phone calls from parents with varied complaints about the new mascot including, quote, many have also commented on the negative double entendre of the word cougar. the negative double entendre of the word cougar. i take it they're not talking about john cougar melon camp. do you even know what jack and diane is? you don't know anything. they don't teach you anything these days. this is a little ditty about parents getting freaked out about their kids going to a high school where the mascot is a cougar, because it also happens to be a slang term for an older woman dating a younger man. the parents are not thinking about this kind of cougar but this kind of cougar.

>> hi, i'm tony and welcome to the cougar den. i treated myself to a jonas brothers concert. >> you deserve it, tony. >> i was thrown out. >> tony? >> what happened? >> i was really rocking out, you know, pumping my fist, when my menopause patch flew off my arm and into a young girl's mouth. >> "snl" "cougar den." which is a classic. they decided to scrap the kids' choice for mascot. they're not going to be the cougars. they're going to be the chargers instead. charger just makes me think of my blackberry. but i guess in the eyes of the school board, it's not as sexually charged as the name cougars. there are plenty more mascots that are far more beavis and butthead worthy. trojans, beavers, gamecocks just to name a few. it's not like the kids wanted to call them the corner canyon crack pipes or anything. what kind of a stupid mascot is cougar anyway? what kind of a school -- wait a

minute. i'm sorry. i'm sorry. that's right. that's right. we're indeed broadcasting from the college of charleston, home of, you guessed it the cougars. that's right. the cougar is the mascot here. this cougar's name is clyde. it seems to be working out just fine for south carolina. clyde, thanks for being with us. appreciate it. so good citizens of draper, utah, i beseech you, do not fear the cougar, the proud mascot of many schools. every night this week, we'll be counting down the top five of the year so far. you can vote for your favorite at ac360.com. that does its for

historic proportions. a tropical storm could bring another foot of rain before it's through. plus both sides spinning. this hour we dig into the concept of reasonable suspicion. and inside the jerry sandusky courtroom. one juror talking about behavior that he calls creepy. good morning. welcome to "early start." we're happy you're with us. i'm zoraida sambol. >> and i'm ashleigh banfield. we're bringing you the news from a to z. it's nasty out there. tropical storm debby just stalled over florida's panhandle. it's smacking that sunshine state it with high winds and heavy rain. look at the pictures. boats getting smashed around and it's going to get worse before it gets any better. forecasters are saying the slow-