this time, it may take about 60 months, five years, for employment to return to pre-recession levels, according to an analysis by mckinsey. what happened? well, over the past quarter century, two large forces have swept the world. globalization and the information revolution. they've lifted tens of millions of people out of poverty, helped make american businesses more productive, given us amazing goods and services at cheap prices. but these forces make it much easier to produce economic growth by using machines and technology or workers in lower wage countries. hiring high-wage workers, that is workers in western countries, becomes a last resort. while one can disagree with the data, there is furious disagreement over everything else. on one side are those, mostly liberals, who say the economy is suffering from insufficient demand. that is, people in businesses are not buying things. the only cure is for the government to step in, spend money, and create demand.

on the other side, conservatives argue the problem is not weak demand but obstacles on the supply side. businesses and people will spend if they're in an environment that requires them to do so, reducing taxes, increasing regulation. in general i accept that a country needs a structure of taxes and incentives that reward growth. but beyond this rhetoric, what specifically would help right now? one of america's best businessmen has an answer. fred smith, the founder of federal express, argues that the key to job growth is stimulating private spending on capital goods and services. there is only one statistic that is almost 100% correlated to job creation, he says, private investment in equipment and software. but what makes companies spend on equipment and software? is it more orders from their customers, or a better climate for business investment? smith argues the latter. he argues that businesses should be given more incentives to invest and create products.

he wants to lower u.s. corporate tax rates which are the second highest in the industrialized world, and the corporate tax only brings in 8% of federal tax revenues anyway, he points out. he supports more incentives for business to spend on equipment and software. these are all good ideas. the obama administration has actually acted on many of them already. but if investment produces jobs, why not also increase government investment? government investment in infrastructure is currently half of what it was a generation ago. president obama should announce a growth agenda that combines incentives for businesses to spend with policies that also get the government back in the business of investing in bridges, highways, airports, other aspects of america's aging infrastructure. we need more investment in science, research, and technology to create the industries of the future. if the goal is growth and jobs, it can't hurt to try all the best ideas, no matter where they come from. for more on this, you can read

my column in this week's "time" magazine and on time.com. let's get started. let's get right to money matters with our all-star panel. larry kudlow is the founder and ceo of kid low and company and the host of cnbc's "the kidler report." sammy bedows is the editor of "the economist." krista freeland is the editor of thompson reuters digital. and the president of reuters right research. a couple of the economists is about the resurgence of the american economy and all it talks about all this, you know, that the shale gas, return of manufacturing, all good stuff. but is it going to happen in time to help obama? >> no. no. our cover story is about the profound secular changes and improvement that are happening.

the rebalancing of the u.s. economy which is real and is very important. but it's not a story about the next three months or even the next six months. and the cyclical recovery has weakened and is looking weak now. unemployment hovering above 8%. none of this looks good in the short term. we're not projecting morning in america in the next few months. we are saying that the cyclical outlook isn't great. it's a very slow deleveraging recovery. but a lot of that deleveraging is occurring and underneath it there are profound changes toward a more export oriented and open economy. one that is -- used to be based on consumer spending in housing. people buying houses with too much debt. now this is changing to an economy that's much more focused on exporting to the rest of the world. this is a secular change. it's not that we see sort of enormous short-term improvement. >> larry, this is what obama talked about in the state of the union. an economy built to last. changing it away from consumption and housing toward exports. is obama economics working? >> right. the trouble is that he doesn't

share zanny's vision about the energy sector. which i think is a very important point. i think the shale revolution is nothing short of phenomenal. and is redoing whole chunks of >> it's happening on his watch. giving all the permits that are making it happen. >> giving none of the permits. this is happening in private lands. in fact, public lands, federal lands, and offshore lands are down as much as 10% and 15% from a couple of years ago. no, he doesn't share that. he's a green energy guy, a solyndra guy. and he missed the boat on all of that stuff. i think -- >> what about the cyclical recovery? >> i think the cyclical recovery, i think i agree there, too. except i'm getting more worried about that. the numbers are coming in on a downward scale almost across the board. we're not seeing the kind of investment -- i interviewed alan greenspan yesterday, who is particularly pessimistic about the longer run investment prospects. he said because of the burgeoning budget deficit, obama

care, medicare, all of our entitlement problems which put us nearer to bankruptcy, he said people are now unwilling to make long-term commitments into durable assets like business investment or homes. they just won't do that. and unless you have that kind of longer-term investment attitude, you're not going to create the jobs and incomes to keep the economy going. >> krista? >> i would like to start by agreeing with larry on the shale gas point. and i think that this is actually a big issue for american progressives. for the democrats, that they haven't dealt with yet. i think american democrats are still very much in this end to fossil fuels era. there was this notion that the world was running out of fossil fuel, that america was running out of fossil fuel, and you could make a case for renewable energy -- >> they were -- >> they weren't unhappy -- >> in that narrative which proved to be so wrong, they were thrilled. is that wrong? >> they weren't unhappy about it. you could make a case that dovetailed with national security.

that era is over. it turns out there's a huge amount of fossil fuel in the united states, and in the north american continent, if you want to talk about the canadian oil sands. that is the new reality. i don't think the democratic party overall and, in particular, environmentalists have dealt with it. fossil fuel is here to stay. and i think that if you see real opposition from environmentalists to any sort of fossil fuel, as you saw with the pipeline from canada, that was purely about saying you know what, we just don't want more oil. it's not going to play because people say, you know what, actually oil and natural gas are pretty great sources of energy. if we have them here, they're a lot cheaper than the other stuff. >> i think the bigger, mother interesting question for the u.s., vis-a-vis the rest of the world is if you put the energy together with the focus on experts more broadly to the emerging economies together with the fact that the u.s. unlike every other big developed country has gone far further to undo the excesses of before.

the housing market has hit bottom, i think. we could probably all agree that that recovery is for real. house prices are extremely cheap here compared to what they used to be. those -- household debt is coming down. those imbalances are being unwound. the u.s. is doing what the u.s. traditionally was good at, which is reinventing itself. getting rid of the imbalances. it takes a long time. we've kind of learned that. >> we still have serious financial policy issues. >> we have very big problems. i would say in the public sector. a lot of problems. >> i think that's exactly right. and i think that the direction of solving those problems is going to be key to the entrepreneurial growth of the usa. the mix of tax rates and spending and entitlement reform is huge. >> this is what i want to get zack in on. the piece we've left on the table is the whole uncertainty and taxes and regulation, you know, the supply side argument that that's what's inhibiting the cyclical recovery. businesses aren't investing. what do you say? >> i was enjoying the debate too much as a spectator. one factor in all of this that

gets missed is that right now americans and our debate is incredibly obsessed with government policy. if you're a republican, you're obsessed with government policy because you said that the democrats have messed everything up and the government is a terrible factor holding back the recovery. if you're a democrat, you're trying to talk about the constructive effect of government as an investor, hence the solyndra. we should invest in infrastructure. that was infrastructure. i think in a lot of ways people are missing the degree to which 70%-plus of the american economic system is still the private sector. which is quite large by global standards, as i'm sure you've pointed out. and that the relentless focus, especially in an election year, on government as either the purveyor of common good that's going to get us moving forward or as a destructor of the common good really misses the point that there's not a lot preventing businesses from investing. i don't buy the uncertainty argument, oh, if government would specify its policy we would put -- >> right. there are tax -- >> i think the reality is that

americans suffered a crisis of confidence in 2008, haven't adjusted to the world as it is. it's convenient to blame government. but this remains an incredibly mobile capital system. if anything, the issue is as much a myriad of cultural decisions about are we going to deploy capital or not, are we going to spend or not, because of the shift in the u.s. economy. not because of the deleterious effects of the u.s. government. >> aren't we forgetting the rest of the world? there are good reasons for business to be uncertain about investment now that have nothing to do with anything happening in the united states. and you know, a lot of those reasons are about europe. it's still unclear what's going to happen in europe. >> right. >> and if europe blows up, then that is going to explode a lot of business plans of a lot of companies. it's not a bad idea -- to keep money on your balance sheet. >> we have to take a break. when we come back we will discuss whether europe will blow up. whether there will be another oil hike. stay tuned.

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we are back with zanny minton beddoes of "the economist,"" zachary karabell, chrystia freeland, and larry kudlow. zanny, the thing about europe that surprises me is everybody says it's going to blow up. and somehow it doesn't. i mean, things are a mess, bond yields go up, it's harder for them to borrow, and there has v to be some emergency -- at the end of the day -- >> every one of those 19 summit that's been there to pull us back from the precipice has indeed pulled us back from the precipice. you're right. it's true that over time maybe you get a sense of, oh, well, it's another summit, another crisis, we're going to go to the edge and we'll put it off. the situation has been getting unremittingly worse. the european economy, as many of them, in free fall. the recession is deepening. the policy view is, in my view, is completely mad. the sense of the lack of confidence in the future of the

eurozone is deepening. there's a complete investor strike of people no longer willing to invest in italy, spain, or peripheral economies because they have no sense of whether the euro will hold together and how it will hold together. i agree with you that it hasn't blown up, if you will. we haven't had the kind of lehman moment yet. we haven't had the cataclysm, although it's a possibility. i think the europeans will pull back from the precipice. there was another summit two weeks ago. i call it the "save our summer holiday summit." they're just about doing it -- >> getting through. >> i think it's a dangerous strategy. >> i basically am sympathetic to the view that it's not going to blow up. i'm dying to take this contrary position -- i can't quite take it yet. but i'm watching spain. now, i thought this business about raising the spanish vet from 18% to 21% was the typical austerity mistake that the europeans make.

imagine anything dumber than that. >> explain, a national sales tax >> these people have so much unemployment now, we're cutting into their income by jacking up the sales tax which applies to everybody. by the way, a regressive tax. they ought to have a flat tax like the eastern europeans. but having said that, i am interested to see if they're going to let the spanish savings and loan banks, i call them, if they're going to let them blow up. just let them blow up. let the preferred shareholders get slammed, let the common equity shareholders get slammed. just let it happen. because if that bubble can get finally burst, i think you've got the beginning of some kind of comeback here. i think -- >> i'm going to -- i'm going to be more pessimistic. especially -- >> blow up the spanish savings and loans. that's what i'm asking for. >> i'm worried about the spanish households. and actually this ties in with our conversation about the u.s. and how the u.s. has been pretty good at working its way through the overleverage and the bubble. what's really interesting about europe, and i think

unsufficiently noted is people can't walk away from their mortgages. so especially in the countries where you had a housing bubble like spain, you have all of these people who don't have their house anymore but still have to pay their mortgage. >> you know -- >> i've just got to pick up on that for a second. when the housing bubble burst in america, one of the things that lots of people said, the terrible thing about the american system was that people could walk away from their mortgages. >> right. >> the non-recourse loan. and that this was what caused people to make foolish bets. you're saying strangely, that's what allowed the american housing to recovery? >> right. it allows the stock clear. >> right. not all that much happened. i mean, the system did clear. the markets did clear. and most people did not walk away from their mortgages. >> no, but i think it has a tremendous impact at the margins. one of the things that i think in some ways the scenario for europe that worries me most of all -- obviously a lehman scenario would be terrible for all of us. but i think you have this kind

of deep freeze scenario where the european middle classes essentially never recover. their kids never get jobs. the parents are going to spend the next 30 years paying off these mortgages. and that's really depressing. >> never is an exceedingly long time. it's clear that european policy, while it may be a mess, has decided that the savings and loan collapse is not in the cards. and policymakers are going to do everything they can for there to be an acceptable level of constant pain for a long time rather than unacceptable level of really sharp pain in the short time. >> it's -- >> we're not going to save little piggy banks. it's not worth it. you're saving the large banks. >> if the european central bank behaved like the federal reserve >> right. >> basically the -- the short-term crisis gets solved. why -- >> absolutely. you can trace what happened in europe and what happened in the u.s. since 2006, 2007. at the beginning there's sort of reasonable parallel. the banks provide lots of liquidity.

there's talk of fiscal stimulus. there is fiscal stimulus in 2008. as things go together. then the europeans go in the direction of saying we're going to have a lot of fiscal austerity. there's -- we're going to do loads of stupid things which mean that people lose confidence in the future of the euro. we're not going to deal with our banking problem. we're not doing any of that stuff. in the u.s., you recapitalize the banks, you do have a lot of structure. you don't have as much as you could have done, but a lot more than you had in europe. and you have, as we said earlier, you have the beginnings of these imbalances being worked off. whereas in europe they're not. the reason is -- briefly. the real reason is that i think that this whole crisis in europe has been characterized largely thanks to the germans as a crisis of government profligacy. because it started in greece where it was a crisis of government prove legsy. and that's where they thought it would never where out. >> and that's why you can't have central banks printing. there's a culturally ingrained belief that if you do so you're going to create inflation like the 1930s -- >> but it's about the political structure. you can't have a central bank if you don't have a country.

and the germans aren't wrong. >> the ecb is quietly one of the great money printers of all time. >> do you approve or disapprove? >> by the way, i happen to approve. and i approve of something the ecb did -- >> you're against austerity programs, for the central banks printing money? you don't sound like a conservative -- >> a european socialist. larry kudlow -- >> at this point the ecb has a nice monetary safety net and has taken the 25 basis point deposit rate off. so a lot of the liquidity they're going to have now will be put to work inside europe. and banks won't keep it on deposit. and the fed will do the same thing. the second point i want to make is northern europe has shown the way with labor market reforms that are very important. you can hire because you can fire. now what's left is real growth policies. this is my supply side angle. europe has got to have growth policies on tax reform. they cannot simply live with these high pensions and finance them by raising the value-added

tax. they've got to change that. and europe has got to privatize everything. everything that is owned. every government asset that is owned should be privatized. that's something that margaret thatcher showed us 35 years ago, and it is a model for all of europe. spain is talking about it. whether they'll do it or not. greece -- >> you private everything. >> glad to see that we've on this show managed to get larry kudlow to come out against austerity, in favor of a central bank printing money -- >> i'm a -- >> in northern europe -- >> i'm a growth supply -- >> thank you, larry. >> free markets are winning in northern europe. that's the best thing i've ever seen. >> larry kudlow, zanny minton beddoes, chrystia freeland, zachary karabell. thank you all. up next, "what in the world." after 16 months of conflict in syria, are we finally at a tipping point? we will explain. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550

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now for our "what in the world" segment. over the past 16 months of bloody conflict in syria, observers have been waiting for one key development -- top-level defections from within president assad's inner circle. suddenly it seems a pressure valve has gone off. pilots, ambassadors, and even one general have defected. what does it mean? the general is a childhood friend of bashar al assad. and an officer in the elite republican guard.

his father was chief of staff and then minister of defense for 30 years under bashar's father, hafez al assad. this is as close to the top of the syrian regime as you might get. that's why hillary clinton took special note. >> if people like him and like the generals and colonels and others who have recently defected to turkey are any indication, regime insiders and the military establishment are starting to vote with their feet. >> but there are some crucial caveats. talas has not been a member of assad's inner circle for awhile. he had actually been under house arrest for more than a year. also he was high ranking, but he was not an alawite. while alawites only make up 12% of syria's population, they hold more than 80% of the positions in the powerful republican guard. they are the inner circle.

according to some reports, when sunnis are put on guard duty, there is always an alawite soldier assigned to monitor the sunni soldiers. but if the increasing number of top-level defections is a signal of the sunni elite, which is comprised of generals, of businessmen, bureaucrats, that have so far stuck with assad is now moving away from him, that's a huge shift and one that will ultimately bring down the regime. there is mounting evidence that the sunnis are weakening in their support for the assad regime. we spoke with a former u.s. marine, austin tyson. now a law student and spending the summer reporting from syria. on a recent imbed with a rebel group, he found that the government's helicopters flew so high that they couldn't really aim their missiles. he saw firsthand that hostile fire from assad's tanks and troops were poorly aimed and random. the suspicion among many rebels at the time, he says, was that

the predominantly sunni pilots and soldiers were deliberately missing their targets. another telling indicator of dissent is the number of silent objectors in the army. according to "the new york times," a growing number of syrian soldiers, many of whom lack the means to flee, are staying home. but to ensure their continued silence and neutrality, these officers continue to draw salaries and pensions. money is the main reason to believe that assad's regime cannot last. inflation is said to be as high as 30%, according to some reports. assad and his cronies are freely printing money. the syrian pound has depreciated against the dollar by more than half on the black market. meanwhile, the regime is running out of cash. 90% of syria's oil used to go to the european union. but sanctions have put a stop to that. tourism and trade have, of course, plummeted, and monetary support from iran cannot be counted on indefinitely. tehran itself is buckling under unprecedented sanctions.

and there was a report last week that iran might be weakening in its support for assad. an iranian ambassador gave an interview in a tehran paper criticizing his government's support for the syrian regime and saying that assad's days were obviously numbered. there's one more piece to the puzzle. the growing strength of syria's opposition. the free syria army is getting stronger. saudi arabia and qatar are openly arming the rebels, channeling them through routes from turkey, lebanon, and now even iraq. rebel attacks have become more focused, running deeper into two main cities. damascus and aleppo. the various opposition groups are coming together to plan for a post-assad syria. what would such a syria look like? up next, i'll speak with the man who is making the plans, the head of syria's opposition. people with a machine.

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agents, say hello to the second-biggest hailstone in u.s. history. [ announcer ] we are insurance. ♪ we are farmers bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ thursday was the deadliest day in syria since the uprising started 16 months ago. nearly 300 civilians were killed that day. the death toll simply underscores the need for finding some resolution in syria. one of the main blockades to that has been russia. my next guest, adbul basit sieda is the head of the syrian national council, a powerful group of opposition leaders, in some ways syria's main opposition group. he met with russia's foreign minister lavrov this week in

moscow. he joins me now from istanbul. welcome to the show. tell us what your meetings in russia were like. what did you feel that, when you asked the russians to support the opposition in syria, you got the response you were looking for? >> translator: i'd like to start by saying a prayer for the souls of the more than 250 victims of tremseh and many more have been injured. of course, we went to moscow based on an invitation from the foreign ministry of russia. however, during the negotiations which lasted for more than three hours, we found that the russian point of view is still the same. they listened to what we said. we hope they change their position because things cannot continue as they are right now in syria. >> you say that they didn't change their stance. does that mean you regard them as being a supporter of the assad regime? do you think they are sending

the assad regime arms and money? >> translator: of course we told them that. and we told them that you're supporting this regime by using veto power in the u.n. security council. we also told them that the syrian ares being killed by russian weapons, especially heavy artillery tanks, cannons, rocket launchers, and helicopters. their answer is that they had stopped shipments of arms. >> let me ask you, when i was in russia just a month ago, the russian officials said to me, we don't have as much influence with damascus as you think we do. do you believe that that is the case? >> translator: russia is supporting this regime politically and militarily. and our meeting with the russian officials, we said that we wanted a relationship of friendship between the two peoples. the syrian people and the russian people. we know that russia is the superpower who has its own interests. we respect all this, and we understand it. but we cannot accept that these

interests come at the expense of the blood of syrians. >> let us talk about the events of just the last few days. what do you know about this massacre that took place? why did it take place? do you have any understanding of what is going on there? >> translator: the massacre started thursday morning when the syrian forces started to surround this village of 10,000 inhabitants. it was surrounded from all areas with all kinds of weapons including tanks. it was randomly bombed. after that, the security forces and the regime folks entered the village, killed innocent citizens. some citizens tried to flee, but they were followed by the thugs and then killed using primitive weapons. the objective behind this massacre is to send a message of terror to the citizens and push the country toward a civil war between factions.

syrians will hate to see this happen. >> finally, mr. sieda, what would you like to see the west do? you realize very well that the russians have blocked any action through the security council as have the chinese. would you want western military intervention even if there is no possibility of a u.n. resolution, no possibility of u.n. legitimacy in that sense? would you still want to see american-led military intervention in syria? >> translator: we want from the west and from the friends of syria and from all the people who fight for the dignity of human beings, we want to tell them that what is happening in syria is a mark of shame in the history of mankind. this regime is a black page in the history of humans. this regime does not belong to this time period, nor does it belong to the values of this time period. this regime, if it continues like this, it will lead to the explosion of everything in the middle east. it will threaten the security and the peace of the region and even the world.

for this reason, everybody must move before it is too late. before the situation heads to the unknown. >> what would you like to see happen? would you like an american-led military intervention even if you cannot get u.n. resolutions because the russians and chinese will block them? would you like to see an american-led military intervention in syria now? >> translator: we want for america and the western countries to carry out their responsibilities through the security council and work to adopt a resolution under article 7 to force this regime to stop killing syrians. and respect the hopes and aspirations of syrians. with regard to america specifically, we would like to say to president obama that waiting for election day to make the right decision on syria is unacceptable for syrians. we cannot understand that a superpower ignores the killing of tens of thousands of syrian civilians because of an election campaign that a president may win or lose. that's why we are saying there is work that must take place at the security council.

however, if this is not possible, america and other countries that represented the friends of syria can move outside of the scope of the security council. every day more than 100 people get killed in syria. we talk about them as numbers. we are dealing with numbers, and we forget that these people are human beings who have fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, and friends. they have dreams, memories. they love music, and they love to live a good life. >> adbul basit sieda, thank you very much. we wish you all the best in this very important heroic struggle you are up against. >> translator: thank you very much, brother fareed. my salutations to you and to your dear viewers. next up, the higgs boson, what in the world is it? and why is it great news for science? but bad news for america. when we come back. t centurylinkd

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well i heard the news recently that scientists in europe had confirmed the existence of the higgs boson, also called the god particle, my first thought was, isn't that fantastic? my second thought was what in the world does that mean? to help me and you understand it all i've asked a brilliant astro fizzist to join me, director of the hayden planetarium here in new york and the author of many books. his latest is space chronicles.

welcome back. >> thanks, thanks. my second time on the show. >> so what is the higgs boson? and why is it called a boson? >> well, so there is actually an indian physicist named bose who had early discussions on a class of particle that might mediate forces. the foton of light that we're familiar with, many people are familiar with. just light. that's a boson. and a proposal was put forth by someone named higgs that there would be a kind of boson out there that, if it existed, it could be responsible for granting mass to the fundamental particles in nature. and by the way, it was so elusive to -- >> because it's a subatomic particle? >> yes, and only exists at high energies for short amounts of time -- >> explain how short. >> oh, billionth of a billionth of a second. >> that's it -- it exists for a billionth of a billionth of a second?

>> or less. it's ten minus 23 seconds. so it's one -- so, yeah, in order to then discover it and know that it's there, it requires many, many repeated experiments. and in fact, the announcement represents 1,000 of these particles discovered over the long period of time that the experiment had been run. >> so when the british government started funding this project, the minister of science then, william wallgrave, said, announced that he was going to have a competition to -- to reward somebody, on to see explain what the hell it was -- to explain what the hell is was the british government was funding. the best answer they came up was this -- this was during margaret thatcher's prime ministership. they said, imagine a conservative party meeting. imagine margaret thatcher walks in the door. imagine how everybody starts clustering around her as she walks from one end of the room to the other, and it keeps slowing her down because she can't get to the other door. that's the higgs particle. does that make sense?

>> okay i would think of it. it makes perfect sense. but i think of it more in terms of an l.a. party, party in los angeles. if you're unknown and you enter a party, no one stops you, no one cares about you. you can walk right on through, stop and go, no one cares. as your popularity grows, more and more people accrete to you, and it's harder for you to get into motion. it's harder for you to stop. and these are the exact properties that we call mass. >> so higgs -- the higgs particle is tom cruise at the l.a. party? >> yes, exactly. no, the higgs particle grants the -- tom cruise would be a high mass particle that the higgs field gives him. >> i see. >> a high partmass. >> the higgs field confers upon -- on a certain person, a certain particle, tom cruise-like status? >> precisely. and it's the properties of that particle interacting with that field that we would then measure as mass. and not all particles have the same mass. and so -- nor do all people accrete as many as would happen at an l.a. party. i have to specify l.a. because

in new york, you might be intrigued by someone who you haven't met yet. around and actually give them some attention. i've never seen that happen in l.a. >> new york chauvinist. on the day this was announced, july 4 -- >> ooh -- >> you tweeted this was a good day for science but a bad day for america in a sense. >> in a sense. i used more colorful language than that, but yes. yes. >> let's talk about the fact that this particle could have been discovered in america by american scientists. we had the earliest version of the large haldron collider, it was being built in texas. we spent $12 billion on it. and then after the end of the cold war we decided we don't need to competethe soviets anymore. at the cost of $600 million, we decommissioned the whole thing. >> yeah. this is congress. and your next question? are you surprised by this? yeah. it was quite frustrating. in the 1980s, there was the build-up of the excitement that we superconducting materials were coming of age. and when you make very powerful

magnets that bend the path of these particles into the circle, you can increase the power of the magnets by using super-conducting material. material science was finally coming of age. and -- plus, you need a huge range -- you can't do that in rhode island. you need a state big enough to put it in. so in waxahachie, texas, we started digging a hole to put in waxahachie, texas, we started digging a hole to put this super conducting super collider. it was scheduled to be three times the energy of what they've got now, three times the energy. budgets were allocated. holes were dug. engineering plans were drawn up. and the construction had already begun. early '90s comes, there's some -- the budget flinches, and congress says, no, we choose to no longer pay for this. and if you part the curtains, what you'll find is of course what happened in 1989 -- peace broke out in europe. and the cold war ended. the physicist was the darling of the cold war, right back to the second world war itself, because

atomic energy was the foundations of, first the winning of the second world war, but it was the -- it was responsible for so much of the politics of the cold war. so the government understood the role of the physicist as not only -- how many missiles are in your silo, how many physicists are there with you in the silo. and i think they judge that the physicist wasn't as useful to national security in the post cold war era as before. you won't read that in the report. that's my interpretation of that sequence of events. no other particle accelerator had been cut that had been proposed and built for the entire 20th century. >> do you believe that if we had continued along the path of funding these kinds of big scientific projects it does make a difference, because the knowledge accumulates here, the people accumulate in the united states and there is a kind of spillover effect? >> oh, yes, it is more than spillover. in fact i call it a fly wheel. when he take on projects of such

magnitude -- by the way, in the big picture that budget is small compared to the -- >>al cultural subsidies -- >> exactly. okay? it's small. let's just balance our understanding of this. so when you do this, every step that you make in the engineering, in the physics, is on the frontier. when you're on the frontier, you discover things. you invent things. you -- patents are granted. it attracts other talent because that's where the action is. so right now there are 1,000 american fiphysicists who are working on projects on these particle physics projects in europe, not here in america. so their brains are over there in the coffee lounges sharing great ideas about what the next discovery will be. you start nucleating places where great ideas get formulated, and those places -- at least in particle physics -- are no longer here in america. as a scientist, i'll take the discovery wherever it comes, but i'm an american, so -- and you could taste the higgs boson in

the 1990s. >> always a pleasure. >> thanks. we will be back. [ male announcer ] let's say you need to take care of legal matters. wouldn't it be nice if there was an easier, less-expensive option than using a traditional lawyer? well, legalzoom came up with a better way. we took the best of the old and combined it with modern technology. together you get quality services on your terms, with total customer support. legalzoom documents have been accepted in all 50 states, and they're backed by a 100% satisfaction guarantee. so go to legalzoom.com today and see for yourself. it's law that just makes sense.

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afghan president hamid karzai surprised many this week when he encouraged the taliban leader mullah omar to run for

president in afghanistan's 2014 elections. that brings me to my question of the week -- what does the word taliban mean? is it, a, soldiers. b, students. c, victory. or d, paradise. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. go to cnn.com/fareed for more of the gps challenge. also, if you miss a show or a special, you can buy our shows on itunes. go to itunes.com/fareed. this week's "book of the week" is a bit of a departure. the book is "the tell-tale brain." it is a tour of the mysteries of that most important of human organs -- the brain. the author takes us on a series of adventures through neuro science to shed light on these mysteries. he ranges widely the stories of fascinating. he writes well and you feel you're in the hands of a brilliant guide. and now for the last look. what's more american than apple pie and baseball?

how about mickey mouse? frank sinatra. and rocky balboa. i was amazed to see all three represented on stage in the most unlikely of places -- north carolina. now kim jong-un's father, kim jong-il, was famously a big fan of hollywood movies. but he did his thing in private. is this public love fest the sign of some kind of something coming? we will will be watching. the correct answer to our gps challenge question was b. the word taliban is arabic for students. the group's name is said to refer to the fact that many of its original members were students of madrassas, those religious schools that in many parts of the muslim world have bred radicals.

thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. hello, everyone. i'm fredricka whitfield with a look at our top stories. a former top syrian official says the country provided shelter an built safe havens for al qaeda for years. former syrian ambassador to iraq defected last week. he sat down with our ivan watson for his first television interview with a u.s. network. we'll have that interview for you in about 30 minutes from now. a nerve-racking weekend for two boston area families who are anxiously awaiting news on their loved ones kidnapped in egypt's sinai region. tourist lisa alfonsi and a pastor were taken off their tourist bus in egypt's sinai region just on friday. authorities there are negotiating for their release. the state of florida is one step closer to purging non-citizens from its voting

roles. open fishls there are now have access to a department of homeland security database on immigrants. floor governor rickcott d sued the got government for access to that database. there's a fight brewing over the iconic electric guitar bob dylan may have first used in concert back in the 1960s. details behind its authenticity and believed value at 2:30 p.m. eastern today. "the next list" with sanjay "the next list" with sanjay gupta starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com my name is jose marquez and i use toys to make affordable medical devices. >> jose gomez marquez believes that everyone deserves proper medical care no matter where they live. in developing countries and right here in the united states.

as the debate rages on here in the united states, jose is tackling the problem of affordable health care in his own way by making medical devices out of toys. with his do-it-yourself medical kits, he's teaching doctors around the world to open up, take apart, and re-purpose or hack these toys to save lives. i'm dr. sanjay gupta. and this is "the next list." so where are we? >> you are the little devices lab at m.i.t. >> when you think innovations and international health, you expect to see some gleaming laboratory with the latest achbd greatest things. but sometimes you need easier products to start with. >> a lot of doctors can heal in sometimes very fundamental ways spop sometimes it is just a little device that gets in the way that they don't