and we would never presume that it would be slam dunk. >> prosecutors say it could be months before they decide whether to seek the death penalty. cnn's ed lavandera joins me now. ed, it's very interesting to see him in court with that bright red hair, almost looking like someone who was possibly medicated or hadn't slept a lot. paint us a picture for what it was like to get a glimpse of holmes today. >> reporter: it was tough, i would imagine, for the many people who were intently watching this. he appeared as some sort of comic book character emerging in that courtroom. i think everyone got over the shock of seeing the red hair, the attention really turned to his demeanor. and i think people were just stunned by his complete dazed look, bewilderment at times, confused. he appeared sedated and completely out of it in many ways. it's led to a lot of speculation throughout the day that he might have been medically sedated by authorities here in the jail in

arapahoe county. we've reached out to the sheriff's office in charge of that jail. they say they cannot tell us whether or not he's been medically sedated or given anything. the speculation will have to continue. i think many people were stunned by that. all of this is significant. since he was arrested in the early morning hours of friday, the authorities here in colorado had refused to release his mug shot. this was the first time that we were going to be able to get a glimpse of hip. we knew very well he was going to look very different from the pictures we initially got of james holmes. that's what a lot of people were looking towards. also looking for a clue or a signal about what is going on in his head. >> absolutely. also under that sort of burgundy prison suit that you see, he's wearing a bulletproof vest. there were a number of victims' families in the court. what are they saying to you about the man accused of killing their loved ones tonight? >> reporter: i was struck by one

of the comments that one of the victims' relatives mention that had he looked like a, quote, pathetic freak. others said, look, i have no desire to look at him, talk about him, give him any more fame than he's already gotten over these last three days. those are some of the snapshots and glimpses of emotions and reaction we're getting to what we saw today. >> and he had to be brought in through an underground tunnel that they had there between the detention center and also the courthouse. and they're taking every single precaution that they can. security is really at the utmost here. >> reporter: there's no question. there is no single more high-profile case and more intense situation than what is going on with this particular inmate. there's a great deal of scrutiny. anything that happens to him in custody would create a big situation that obviously officials and authorities here in colorado have no interest in dealing with.

so it's in their best interest to make sure that he's protected from the general population in the jail, that nothing at all happens to him. so that is a big issue for them. >> ed lavandera, we appreciate your reporting tonight. thank you. where does this case go from here? the top prosecutor, her name is carol chambers. she is tough. she's controversial. she is a staunch supporter of the death penalty and she doesn't shy away from the spotlight. "outfront" tonight, a reporter who has covered her career. his name is alan pendergast. he's right here with me. and from new york, legal contributor paul callan. chambers is out of office in january. how far will this case even get under her watch? >> well, under colorado law, she has to make a decision about whether she's going to seek the death penalty within 60 days of the arraignment in the case.

and the arraignment could take place as early as next month. i'm sorry, next week. it's quite possible that she will make the decision. and i would also say, given her prior history and i'm sure we can talk about that in terms of the politics of it, that she probably would be someone who would want to make that decision. she's made death penalty decisions many times in the past. >> alan, since chambers is finishing up her term soon, how much of an effect can she really have on this case? the election will be in november. january, she'll be out. how much on this high-profile case? >> she can certainly lay the groundwork for the case. she's shown the least reluctant to file those kinds of charges. the problem is she will be gone in six months. number two, not all of her cases have been successful. there's certainly been a lot of questions raised about the way she approaches the death penalty. >> you say that she is controversial. tell me about some of her

tactics. i hear that she starts billing cases that were part of the -- she'd bill them to the state? >> she essentially wanted the state to pay for the prosecution under a very obscure statute that says the state should pay for crimes prosecuted in prison. but that case, one of those two defendants was ultimately acquitted. i can't think of another death penalty case that the defendant was acquitted. >> i also read that she's timed judges' breaks -- >> she's had issues with judges. she's had issues with some police witnesses. she's had issues with disclosures in her office that should have been made and appeals raised on things where it seemed like the prosecution team was cutting corners. if the victims want resolution here, you want someone who's a little more measured and isn't going to create as many appeal problems. >> despite the evidence, chambers refused to say this case was a slam dunk.

she said, i don't want to say this is a slam dunk. you have one victim here who is under 12 years old, 6 years old, as a matter of fact. is she sort of hedging here? >> she doesn't want to look unseemly in saying that a death penalty case is a slam dunk. let's look at what she has. she has a theater full of witnesses who presumably can identify the defendant. she has the defendant's apartment thoroughly wired to be an enormous bomb. she has all kinds of forensic evidence linking him to the purchase of the ammunition that was used. this is a slam dunk. so if you can't get a conviction on this fact pattern, you might as well give up the practice of law. now, the death penalty is a different matter. depending on who sits on this jury. there are some jurors who may have conscientious objections and don't want to hand down a death penalty sentence. she could lose that part and wind up with life in prison. but, please, this is a very,

very strong case. >> yeah, all but the smoking gun, really. and you can say, yeah, they found him with the smoking gun. colorado has the death penalty. three people currently on death row. chambers put two of them there. here's what she said today about consulting the victims before deciding on the death penalty. take a listen. >> if the death penalty is sought, that's a very long process that impacts their lives for years. and so they will want to have -- and we will want to get their input before we make any kind of a decision on that. >> from what you know, alan, about her, do you think that she will -- is going to decide upon this case, upon the families' wishes or do you think she's already made up her mind? >> i think she'll take the families into consideration. but i'd surprised if she didn't seek the death penalty in light of her track record. >> including the death penalty here, does that complicate things, paul? >> yes, it does because on the one hand, you've got to obtain a conviction in the underlying charge.

then there's an entire second trial, really, on the issue of whether the death penalty is appropriate. you started the sentiment segment -- segment of holmes giving that speech at a science camp. that sort of speech will be used to humanize him and say this is a bizarre aberration possibly caused by mental illness. nunlt, given the number of victims and given the nature of this atrocity, it does seem like a case that almost any prosecutor would wind up ultimately seeking the death penalty in. >> paul, alan, thank you both very much. not everyone wanted to be in that courtroom today. not all the family members wanted to be there. we'll speak to one of them next, one of them who's making arrangements for his dead sister. ♪

why not make lunch more than just lunch? with two times the points on dining in restaurants, you may find yourself asking why not, a lot. chase sapphire preferred. there's more to enjoy.

it doesn't look risky. i mean, phil, does this look risky to you? nancy? fred?

no. well it is. in a high-risk area, there's a 1-in-4 chance homes like us will flood. i'm glad i got flood insurance. fred, you should look into it. i'm a risk-taker. [ female announcer ] only flood insurance covers floods. visit floodsmart.gov/risk to learn your risk. our second story "outfront" tonight, not all of the victims' family members wanted to be in the courtroom today when james holmes made his first appearance. many found it, quite frankly, too painful. our next guest says he didn't go because he was so angry he might lash out. jordan ghawi's sister, jessica, a 24-year-old aspiring sportscaster was killed in that

theater. and jordan is "outfront" with us tonight. jordan, welcome back to the program. thank you so much. it is obviously painful for you and your family and you intentionally skipped the hearing. why? >> like you said, i was afraid that i may have done something stupid and detracted from the victims' story and let some anger that's recently arisen come out of me and directed to him. >> yeah. you said it would haven't done you any good beyond you just worrying about lashing out, you don't think it would have done any good for you to have been there, didn't help the process, in the process of trying to heal at all for you to see him. >> right, this guy is a coward. his face is all over the television. why do i need to see in it person? i don't want to look into the eyes of the man who took away my sister and 11 other lives. >> he was acting strangely. you could see it there on the videotape. what would you like to see happen to him, jordan?

>> full force of the justice system come down on him. i don't believe for a second this guy's sitting there acting aloof, pretending like he's not knowinggoing what's going on. this guy is a neuroscientist. he's not an idiot. he's a genius. he's trying to manipulate the justice suspect. it will prevail and he'll spend the rest of his life in a jail cell. >> you and i spoke about your family today. i've been trying to get in touch with your mother. i haven't had a chance to speak to her. how is your mother doing now? >> she's doing a little bit better today than the past few days, only because she's had family and friends constantly surrounding her and remembering jessica by telling stories and just reliving her life and discussing what we can do from this point further to recognize those dreams of her and make them a reality for those who would like to be in the same field of sports journalism. >> i have to ask you this. you're making plans to lay your

sister to rest with a memorial service on saturday. we understand that she's going to be cremated and then you're going to carry her remains back to texas. how's the family planning to honor jessica? >> like you said, i'm working on getting my sister's remains back. i'm not going to leave her side until we give her a proper service. we're going to plan on bringing her back to san antonio, 10:00 a.m., saturday at a local church and we're going to celebrate her life. we're going to have people come out and talk about it and share stories and reminisce and discuss what we can do to sustain her legacy and provide her dream and make it available to others. >> jordan ghawi, thank you again. best of luck to you. >> thank you, don, for keeping this story before everyone. >> of course, thank you very much. following the shooting here, new york city mayor michael bloomberg called on president obama and mitt romney to do something about gun violence.

and tonight, mayor bloomberg has some new questions for the two. "outfront" next. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world.

the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. by what's getting done. measure commitment the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through.

our third story "outfront,"

almost immediately after the mass shooting on friday, new york city mayor michael bloomberg called on president obama and mitt romney to do something about gun violence in america. in an interview with piers morgan which airs tonight, the mayor had a few new questions for the two men running for president. >> i think the first question you might want to ask if you could get the two presidential candidates sitting here across from you, why governor romney did you sign a bill outlawing the sale of assault weapons when you were governor of massachusetts, but today don't believe it's the right thing? what changed your mind? why, president obama, when you campaigned through years ago, you campaigned on a promise to try to enact legislation that would ban assault rifles -- assault weapons? again, what changed your mind? >> "outfront" now, john avlon. john, do you think the mayor has a point here? >> i do. and i think he's trying to point out the ill logic mindset on

this. it stops at the point where we should be able to have a conversation about taking small steps to solve the problem. embracing the opportunity for reasonable restrictions. it's a debate we haven't been able to have in the past. it's what leadership is about. by pointing out these flip-flops, it's a way of nudging the candidates to have more courage and dealing with the reality of the situation. >> i want to move on and talk about the politics of this. but some people also are questioning the timing here and saying the victims haven't even been laid to rest yet and people who are talking about gun control and those issues, maybe they should wait a moment and be respectful of the people who were killed here. >> this is a moment to honor the victims and to celebrate their lives, that's true. but as we absorb this latest incident of mass gun violence, this tragedy, it is reasonable

to start saying, what could we have done to stop it? not that individuals who are severely mentally unstable can ever be stopped. but why can't we have a reasonable conversation about maybe make ate little more difficult to get assault weapons, maybe increasing background check, enforcing existing laws more effectively. that's a reasonable conversation we should be able to have in our country. and it's been considered politically incorrect to do so for too long. >> that's a political reality. is it a non-starter -- many people think so when it comes to congress? >> absolutely. both parties feel the dealing with gun violence, even though 10,000 people a year maybe murdered by guns in our country, that it's more trouble than it's worth mriblgtly? it's because of the influence of the lobby. 10 to 1, the n.r.a. outspends others on the other side of the aisle. it's about learning from these searing experiences and recognizing that we've done this before. bill clinton took on the n.r.a. in 1994. we passed an assault weapons ban that lapsed ten years later. there is an example of profiles

in courage. it is about courage. it's about taking on powerful interests. but sometimes that's necessary to have a rational debate that actually deals with the problem. >> john avlon, thank you. >> thank you, don. ahead tonight, more of our coverage from aurora, colorado, here. the suspect's family put out a new statement today. plus we're learning more about james holmes' past and his time in the neuroscience program at the university of colorado. plus, erin will be back tomorrow, live from mali, from the mali border. here's a sneak peek for you. >> this is the terrain along the mali border. hot, barren, unforgiving. 250,000 people are fleeing al qaeda-linked extremists in mali. entire villages were abandoned just yesterday. people are afraid. and the refugee camp conditions are hard to see. tomorrow, you'll hear their stories and hear from the men who are fighting from a place the world needs to watch.

wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health. keeps you from getting soft. [ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! who dreamed she could fly. like others who braved the sky before her, it took a mighty machine, and plain old ingenuity to go where no fifth grader had gone before. ♪

and she flew and she flew, into the sky and beyond. my name is annie and i'm the girl who dreamed she could fly. powered by intel core processors. ♪

and deposits at the same time. for paying your friend back for lunch...from your tablet. for 26 paydays triggered with a single tap. for checking your line, then checking your portfolio. for making atms and branches appear out of thin air. simple to use websites, tools, and apps. for making your financial life a little bit easier.

i'm don lemon live in aurora, colorado, tonight at the scene of friday morning's deadly shooting. we're going to have more from here. the place where we first saw today the suspect in all of this.

we'll get back to that in a moment. but we want to check in with john avlon who has some of the other stories we're following tonight. at least 82 people were killed and more than 180 wounded in at least a dozen attacks in iraq. the bloodiest of today's attack wounded 43 and killed 30 when roadside bombs exploded in a residential complex north of baghdad. we were told the level of extremist violence in iraq has been advising the last few months. at least 14 people have died after a pick-up truck they were in ran off a highway in texas on sunday. nine people were injured. officials say all 23 people were cram into the a ford f-2/5250. the immigration and customs enforcement agency tells cnn the victims are from guatemala, honduras and mexico. the first american woman in space, sally ride, has died of

pancreatic cancer. in 1983, she flew aboard the space shuttle "challenger." she made a second trip into space in 1984 and was part of the team that investigated the space shuttle "challenger". she is survived by her mother and her partner of 27 years. the government accountability office has put a dollar amount on the cost of the debt ceiling fight. that cost? $1.3 billion. we looked through the report. the agency says treasury was forced to pay a higher borrowing cost while congress tried to deal with raising the debt ceiling. but the gao looked at the dollar cost and the cost of time as well. the report states the delays in raising the debt limit resulted in 5,750 hours of work.

there is a cost to hyperpartisanship. it's been 354 days since the u.s. lost its top credit rating. what are we doing to get it back? the increased likelihood that greece could leave the euro. let's send it back to don lemon live in aurora. thank you very much, john. the family of alleged colorado shooter james holmes spoke out hours after his court appearance. the family's lawyer read a statement on their behalf in san diego. >> the family wants to reiterate that their hearts go out to the victims and their families. the holmes family would like to maintain their privacy. so at this time, we will not be discussing james or his relationship to the family. and we would respect courtesy in that regard. >> cnn's casey wian at that press conference.

he joins nous. casey, why are we hearing from an attorney? >> reporter: don, according to that attorney, a woman named lisa dammiani. she says the family has hired her because of they're concerned about their privacy. and she's concerned about safety issues for the family. she says she's experienced in these matters and the family has been contacted by investigators. in the early days after this shooting, they were contacted by local police authorities. and she also confirmed to us that they have been interviewed by the fbi. what was interesting, though, is she says they have not yet been contacted by any authorities from aurora, colorado. the attorney also saying she fully expect that is this will be a death penalty case. don?

>> and the family attorney, casey, also thought it was important to clarify something abc news reported about the mother on friday. what was that all about? >> reporter: yeah. that seemed to be top of mind and perhaps even the most important part of this news conference that was held. on friday, abc news reported that a producer contacted arlene holmes, the suspect's mother, and that she sort of confirmed that they had the right identity of the suspect, sort of inferring that, in fact, yes, he was the person who was suspected in this horrible shooting. the family came out today through their attorney saying, no, that's not what the mother meant. the mother meant only that she was the right person that the abc news producer thought he was speaking with. she was clarifying that, yes, you've got the right person in me. abc news coming out late tonight saying that they are standing by their reporting, that they in fact referred to the colorado shooting before mrs. holmes identified herself as the right person they were speaking with.

sort of a "he said, she said" situation here, don. >> it was interesting because most people would have thought that it would have been maybe someone the family -- a spokesperson at least here in colorado and not hearing from the family in san diego. >> reporter: well, the family, of course, is based here. and we do not even know for sure whether any family members remain in colorado. there was a report that james holmes' father did travel there immediately after the shooting. but our understanding is that attorney is meeting with family members here in southern california as we speak, don. >> one more question for you. we talked about the clarification of that abc news report. did the lawyer call abc news before that press conference today? >> reporter: we don't know. that's what abc news claims. and we tried to get annens to that from the attorney. she has not been reachable for the last couple of hours.

so far, we just don't know. we know what abc news is reporting. and that is that once this attorney found out that there was no audio recording of that phone conversation between the abc news producer and the suspected shooter's mother, she held the press conference about an hour later. don? >> casey wian, we appreciate it. thank you very much. for the first time, the university of colorado is answering questions about the doctoral program james holmes was in until recently. the school held a news conference a short time ago. and cnn's drew griffin was there. what is the university saying tonight? >> this news conference got a little contentious. they began to describe a program where just six students were in the actual class year, that james holmes was involved with. neuroscience, ph.d. degree, highly elite group, come from a across the world to actually compete for these six spots. and they describe a program where james holmes and every other person in that program

would be heavily monitored, much interaction with the family, with the faculty, daily and weekly. we do know that at the end of this school term on june 10th or so, he took an oral exam. it was right after that oral exam, don, that he withdrew from classes. and this is the process that happens because it's so highly unusual. this is what the dean says would happen if indeed a student in this elite program would drop out. >> i can't speak about the specifics of this case. but i can tell you generically the program director and other faculty leadership will sit down with that student and try to understand what their difficulties are. and, in fact, what the the traditional chain of events is that the student is offered to retake the exam with remedial coursework. they want the student to succeed.

the exam is not one to throw students out if they don't have proper foundational knowledge. >> so the question was, did that happen? did that intervention take place? school officials wouldn't say anything about what happened to james holmes, whether there was any change in behavior, what his record was. and it got contentious when the chancellor was asked, that's just not good enough for the victims' families out there. >> they're going to get something when the court case plays out. we're not in a position to impede or impact this investigation. that's just a simple fact. >> we are not trying to be evasive. we're trying to be as transparent as we can in the process. >> but, don, as we've been reporting, there have been very little coming out of the university, almost as soon as the shooting took place, the dean sent out a note to all faculty and student, listen, don't talk to the news media until you talk to our media

contact. and no one's talked. >> i thought it was very interesting, you did say that the university monitors the students closely for its signs of academic and emotional problems as well, right? >> from the very moment james holmes entered this school, they say that happens. they describe this neuroscience program which is in total 35 students, all four years or whatever years they go, they have a monitor, they have a team that works with them. it's a highly one-on-one faculty-to-student ratio. they meet, talk about coursework, they talk about problems. they talk about whatever issues that student is having that would make him not succeed in the program. >> why would they want to keep all of this so close to the vest? obviously people have their right to free speech, this is america. are they concerned about the victims or concerned about issues with the school -- >> they are now saying they've been asked by the police, the fbi, the investigators to keep quiet about this. but in other cases, we have not seen that. we did not see that at virginia tech. we knew what was on record about that kid and the problems he was

having. we knew it in tucson with the community college there. they are falling back on the fact that this is an investigation. the questions we asked were behavioral issues that a professor or a teacher or a student sees a month ago, two months ago, certainly should not be part of any investigation that couldn't be shared with the public. >> although he was in a program and attended the school at one time, they don't want anyone to think that what happened in that theater over our shoulder had anything to do with the school? >> well, we'll find out. the question is, as we've been saying since day one on this story, don, where were the warning signs? where did it happen? where did he, quote, unquote, snap, if that's what did happen? we haven't seen it anywhere. perhaps it happened in a classroom. >> thank you, drew. appreciate it, sir. up next, another big story today involving penn state university. the ncaa has handed down severe punishments on the school, following a scathing report on the handling of the jerry

sandusky scandal. the president of the ncaa is going to join me next. [ male announcer ] away...

[ children laughing ] ♪ ...is the smell of salt in the air. ♪ it's the sound a seashell makes. [ seagulls calling ] away...is a place that's beyond your imagination, yet well within your means. find your away. for a dealer and the rv that's right for you, visit gorving.com. [ male announcer ] if you think even the best bed can only lie there... ask me what it's like when my tempur-pedic moves. [ male announcer ] ...talk to someone who owns an adjustable version of the most highly recommended bed in america. ask me about my tempur advanced ergo. ask me about having all the right moves. [ male announcer ] these are real tempur advanced ergo owners. find one for yourself. check out twitter. try your friends on facebook. see what they have to say unedited. goes up. goes up.

ask me what it's like to get aassage anytime you want. goes down. goes down. ergonomics. ergonomics. [ male announcer ] tempur-pedic brand owners are more satisfied than owners of any traditional mattress brand. [ woman ] ask me why i'm glad i didn't wait till i'm too old to enjoy this. [ male announcer ] start asking real owners. ask me how to make your first move. ♪ [ male announcer ] find out more about the tempur advanced ergo system. ♪ tempurpedic. the most highly recommended bed in america. stocks ended the day lower.

the dow losing 101 points. at one point, it had been down more than 220 points. the nasdaq and the s&p each lost about a percent. the big concern is still in europe. we told you last week, eurozone officials approved a bailout for spain's banks, but there are some real worries that it won't be enough. the bigger fear? that spain, the country, will need to be bailed out. new data shows the country's recession has deepened. its economy shrunk by .4% in the second quarter. the third decline in a row. its unemployment rate is near 25%. then there's spain's debt and borrowing costs. in order for spain to borrow money for ten years, it will pay an interest rate of more than 7.5%, a record high. that made investors skittish. so they started looking for a safe investment. the number tonight, 1.395%. that's how much the u.s. has to pay to borrow money for ten years, a record low. what that tells us is that in

times of global turmoil and despite our fights over the fiscal cliff, when investors want a safe place to stash their cash, they're choosing the united states. now to tonight's outer circle where we reach out to our sources around the world. we start tonight with syria -- is the syrian government today saying it could use chemical or biological weapons against foreign attackers. an arab official saying assad would be given a safe exit if he steps down quickly and leaves syria. i was told how the syrian government responded to the offer. >> not only has the syrian regime already reject this had offer that was made by the arab league. but today you didn't see the violence in syria go down at all. reports from opposition activists are that dozens were killed throughout the country on monday a that there were more fierce clashes in the country's most populated city and commercial hub of aleppo.

reports that free syrian army rebels captured tanksz from syrian regime, from the military there that they were clashing with and actually forced the regime military forces to flee the scene. this is coming on the heels of the same day when there was a press conference by the syrian foreign minister si saying that they wouldn't use chemical weapons against any of the population in syria but they would use them if faced with foreign aggressors. don? >> thank you. next, to israel, where president perez is the latest official blaming iran for last week's bombing in bulgaria saying there is enough hard evidence to link tehran and hezbollah to the attack. cnn's elyse lavin told me how bad tensions are between israel and iran. >> reporter: the president told me there is enough evidence linking iran and hezbollah to the attack. he says it fits the pattern. and he said more attacks are

being planned. i asked him how israel's response could escalate things further with iran. let's take a look to what he said. >> it's a war against israel. israel is not threatening iran. iran is threatening israel. it's a one-sided attack. we don't haven in initiative to do it. but defense is a right and a must of every people. >> reporter: many believe this is part of a at this time f at this time for he said israel will not stand by while its citizens are targeted and will act to keep them safe. thank you very much. our fifth story "outfront" tonight, the ncaa announced

major penalties against penn state university today, including a $60 million fine and a ban on any postseason bowl games for four years. penn state also loses 20 football scholarships a year or fur years and all of their wins from 1998 to 2001 are vacated, stripping joe paterno of the title winningest coach in major league football. the ncaa sanctions are part of the fallout from the jerry sandusky child rape scandal. sandusky was convicted late last month on 45 of 48 counts related to these sexual abuse of ten young victims. ncaa president, mark emmert, who levied the sanctions, is "outfront" with us tonight. tough penalties, sir. but a lot of people wanted to see you go further by canceling the season like when smu was found guilty of paying players under the table raping children is far worst. why not cancel the season?

>> first, the two cases of course are extraordinarily different. everyone looks at the penn state case in its entirety and its one of the most egregious acts i think any of us have witnessed. the ncaa doesn't get involved in criminal violations or criminal penalties. our question that we asked ourselves was, what was the involvement of the athletic department? and so we only worry about the athletic department, control over the athletic department, the culture of the athletic program, and so we imposed a series of sanctions, both -- some of them punitive and some corrective. to make sure the football program and athletic department doesn't find itself in the position again where anything like this could ever happen. >> doctor, the victim advocacy group s.n.a.p. had this to say, vacating wins is a hollow punishment that will be forgotten. bans from bowl games have been issued in the past because players traded championship rings for tattoos.

this is not a punishment equal to the crimes that happened at penn state. what do you say to the victims? >> well, we've made very important points about our concern for those victims. the ncaa is not in the business of criminally penalizing jerry sandusky for his crimes. our job is to worry about the overall impact of the university's athletic programs. we find the university $60 million, with all those proceeds to go to victims of child sexual abuse and the prevention of that abuse. that's 100 times greater than any fine ever levied in the history of the ncaa. we have imposed significant penalties on a competitive end of the football program. the university has been very, very responsive in the openness of providing all of the information about these -- >> so essentially -- >> and so we feel very comfortable where we are with these penalties. >> essentially, you're saying that it's enough.

i want to move on now and talk about joe paterno, the legendary coach. his statue has been removed from the campus. his family says the penalties you announce defame his reputation. and his son, jay, told our erin that the findings -- erin burnett, that the findings of an independent investigation claiming a cover-up should not be a legal indictment. listen to this. >> i think everybody in this situation whether it's penn state, whether it's my family, and certainly, most of all, the victims, deserve to have the truth company out and not necessarily make decisions based on what louis freeh himself called reasonable conclusions. >> do you think you should have waited for all the court cases to end before announcing your decision? >> obviously not. again, we're not -- we're not involved in the court cases. nor is the paterno family or anyone else. those are the activities of the criminal investigation system. we and the university both found the freeh report information

incredibly compelling. they interviewed more than 460 individuals, examined more than 3 million documents and e-mails. they provided an examination that was more exhaustive than anything any of us have ever seen in the university. so with the university accepting those findings, we've found that that body of information to be more than sufficient to impose the penalties we put into place. >> dr. emmert, why didn't the ncaa board hand down the sanctions? why did you get the power to penalize the university? >> it actually was the board and the executive committee that did hand down these penalties. in working with the executive committee and the division 1 board, myself, they authorized me to impose these penalties. we worked together to determine what those penalty, are. and, in fact, it is the power of the executive committee that's being enforced here that brings these penalties to bear. >> let's talk about the amount

of the fines again. $60 million fine. your $60 million fine. it's only about a year's revenue for the football program. if it's a four-year sanction, shouldn't it be four times the amount? shouldn't it be $240 million? >> again, we need to put this all in perspective. so the largest fine that's ever been imposed by the ncaa is literally 1/100th of that. this is an enormous fine in any context in the athletic world it the university's football program does generate gross revenue of about $60 million a year. but of course that's not its profit, that's its revenue. this is a very, very large amount of penalty. the big ten has also added a penalty on top of that in terms of fines. and we'll be able to provide a lot of support to a very large number of individuals through that fine. >> you say that's not its profit, that's its revenue. so, you know -- but still wondering if the merchandising factors into this it really

quickly, can they keep the money from the merchandising? >> their revenue from their athletic program they can use as they determine. but we are fining them $60 million and they'll have to determine from whence that money comes. >> dr. mark emmert, appreciate it, thank you. >> my pleasure. we'll be right back. while energy development comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly providing generations of cleaner-burning energy for our country, drilling thousands of feet below fresh water sources within self-contained well systems. and, using state-of-the-art monitoring technologies, rigorous practices help ensure our operations are safe and clean for our communities and the environment. we're america's natural gas. who have used androgel 1%, there's big news. presenting androgel 1.62%.

both are used to treat men with low testosterone. androgel 1.62% is from the makers of the number one prescribed testosterone replacement therapy. it raises your testosterone levels, and... is concentrated, so you could use less gel. and with androgel 1.62%, you can save on your monthly prescription. [ male announcer ] dosing and application sites between these products differ. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or, signs in a woman which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are, or may become pregnant or are breast feeding should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body, enlarged or painful breasts, problems breathing during sleep, and blood clots in the legs. tell your doctor about your medical conditions

and medications, especially insulin, corticosteroids, or medicines to decrease blood clotting. talk to your doctor today about androgel 1.62% so you can use less gel. log on now to androgeloffer.com and you could pay as little as ten dollars a month for androgel 1.62%. what are you waiting for? this is big news. do you really think brushing is enough to keep it clean? while brushing misses germs in 75% of your mouth, listerine cleans virtually your entire mouth. so take your oral health to a whole new level. listerine... power to your mouth.

a quick reminder, erin will be back tomorrow. "outfront" from the country of mali, which has seen an alarming rise in extremist groups. here's a sneak peek at tomorrow's special. >> eye stand just a few miles from the mali border. 250,000 people have fled al qaeda and other islamic militants. through dusty border towns like this one. and they've told us what the islamists say about america. >> the islamists said before this war and now americans are not good, they are like animals. >> like animals? >> like animals. >> tomorrow, we'll share the stories we've heard and seen from a place some say could be the next afghanistan. please join us. >> you can catch more of erin's reporting from mali tomorrow

night, 7:00 p.m. eastern. thanks for joining us tonight. i'm don lemon. right now. tonight -- >> people versus james holmes. >> the man who's accused of this. >> i've got seven down in theater nine. >> a suspect is going to be male, unknown race. black outfit. believed to be wearing a vest, gas mask. >> what was james holmes thinking? is he sane? what happens now? >> what's the appropriate punishment? >> death. >> i'll talk to some of his victims who barely escaped the rampage and the heroes who risked their lives to save others. plus, the big city mayer who says now is the time to hold president obama responsible for gun control. >> before the public goes to the streeting booth what they will do. >> an exclusive with new york city mayor michael bloomberg. this is "piers morgan tonight."

face-to-face with an accused killer. this is the public's first look. james holmes, his hair dyed red and orange, looking dazed and sitten unshaven and handcuffed beside one of the public defenders assigned to his case. he didn't speak. he didn't look at any of the family members. he never took their eyes off him. more family members watched in an overflow courtroom on closed circuit television. want to remind you of exactly what this young man is accused of doing. striding into the darkness of a movie theater jammed packed with people waiting for a midnight screening of "the dark knight rises." armed to the teeth. threw a gas can to the unsuspecting crowd. 58 people injured. 17 still in hospitals. the nation is left with the question, how could this happen? is there any way to make sure it doesn't happen again? joining me now, a man who says mitt romney and president obama