winning a gold medal to this point, and the pride showed through, piers to, the fact that it is the last olympics and relay gold is graeat, but to be an individual gold medal is fantastic and it would have been a footnote in maybe a bad way. >> and do you think that ryan lochte won too early and too much glory in the beginning and has not reach ed the heights again. >> el we, too much, too early. well, he is a gold medalist, and he started with an important race and beat michael phelps there. for all of this bit of an uneven story here for lochte and phelps. great moments they will take away, but what it really shows is again what an amazing thing that we saw four years ago from michael phelps. this is reality in swimming. you know if someone wins here and there and the frenchmen reel in the americans in the end and phelps does not win the individual races, and it even,

pie pierss, shows how remarkable he did four years ago. >> i could not agree, a fantastic champion. and gymnastics a great day for gabby douglasb. and aly raisman fell at the last hurdle, and talented woman, and jordyn wieber did not get into the playoff, but what do you make of the gymnasts in particular? >> well, gabby douglas, the first african-american who has won the individual all-around gold medal in the olympics. this is the prized medal you could say especially if you are an american in the entire olympic games and won by the african-american for the first time, and gabby, of course, won the team gold and the other women who have won that individual all-around including mary lou retton and nastia liukin, and they were not part of the team gold, and the americans won the team gold so we may see the most decorated gymnast ever, and it is gabby doug last, the 16-year-old and unbelievable calm and

comfortable and ckoconfident athlete who a year ago we never heard of her. >> yes, amazing talent. we have trk and field coming out, usain bolt and the others. >> well, swimming the bread and the butter for the united states, and that is where the u.s. should do well, and they have. the medal count shows it. track and field, and the women more than the men. and the relays are always interesting if the americans don't drop the baton. if they are all getting along and speaking. >> here we call it the bat-on. and when in rome. >> well, don't drop the baton. >> yes, and boys and girls and they have done it at different times. so the track and field has taken a real hit over the years because of the steroid issue, and if you can't trust a footrace, what can you trust? in track and field it is no longer, because 20 years ago it was still in the sport of the olympics and still in the stadium with the calderon, but it has been tainted over the years because of steroids. >> how important for america to

reassume thes a sinden si of the chinese after they went ahead in beijing? >> well, it is important and i'm not sure it is going to happen, because the chinese are having a great olympics, too. i have found that the medal count is the most overrated thing in sports. i don't change my opinion of the country if the u.s. wins more medals or not, but yes, for the u.s. olympic committee and trying to get the olympics in the 2020s and host olympics and just that sense of a national pride, it is a very big deal. >> i think it is a big deal and the americans really want it, and today was a big step forward to have a chance to beat the chinese. christine, thank you very much. the olympics are bittersweet for former track star marion jones who went to prison for lying to a grand jury about using steroids and these are the first games since being released and she joins me now. marian, welcome back. >> thank you, piers. >> obviously, we had a heart rendering interview a few weeks ago and i found it moving mainly because of the timing, but

whatever you did and, you know, i have heard what you said about it and others have said and so on, but the fact that you went to prison over it was a pretty severe punishment, and they stripped you of your medals and when you look at the olympic games here now in london, what goes through your mind? what do you feel? >> well, actually my memories of my olympic experience, piers, are quite good. i was able to achieve my dream. the experience for me was very positive. now, some of the things that happened afterwards were obviously very hurtful and just made things very complicated in my life, so it is actually a positive time of year for me and my family. >> well, we are going to come to what we think of the american team's sprinting chances after the break, but before we get to that, i want to talk to you about the big doping scandal here which may or may not be a doping scandal, but it involves

a young chinese swimmer yes shiwen, and when you see the attention she is attracting for the phenomenal performance, what do you make of it? >> well, it is very unfortunate, because the attention she should be attracting right now is a good one. i mean, she has set a world record. she swam some incredible times of course, but, you know, they have not come out to say she has had any harmful drug tests or anything, so it is very unfortunate. the young lady is 16 years old, and because she ran, and she swam a split that is faster than a male swimmer, all of the sudden now she is looked upon as doing something wrong. now, maybe in the future, if something comes out, well, that is different, but let her enjoy the moment, and let's not tarnish right now, because of people's feelings about certain stuff. she's swam an incredible race. you know, let's just leave it as it is. >> after what you went through, there are other athletes who

have been caught for doping who within two years were back performing at this very olympics, and a british sprinter is doing that. >> yes. >> do you think that the punishment is enough now for doping? do you think that the only way to raeally eradicate it from sport, from the olympics is to make the punishment so severe that other athletes just wouldn't contemplate it? >> no. i certainly wouldn't go that far. i think that, you know, there are going to be athletes from now until the end of sport that are going to try and do things that they shouldn't. now, i of course am a huge proponent of second chances. i have obviously been given a number of them since i made my mistakes, and i think that every athlete, and every person should be given that second chance and the fact that dewayne and other athletes who are in similar situations are now getting a chance to perform, and they are still, you know, having to face

tough moments even though they are running fast and they have made the olympic team and stuff, they are still receiving a lot of criticism, so although they have done their time, they are still doing the time really and people don't see that. so i don't -- i think certainly if you continue the make mistakes and do what you shouldn't, and fail drug tests at some point there should be a lifetime ban, but i think that for the first time for there to be a lifetime ban i think is unfair. a lot of people will say, of course she is going to say that because she has been involved in all of this, but look at the people who need to look in the mirror. have you ever made a mistake and do you wish you had a second chance? of course, and give the athletes a second chance and they made a mistake and see if they can redeem themselves. >> let e's take a short break because i want to come back to talk to you about the sprinting and it is all about to kickoff and usain bolt and the americans and the jamaican rivals and the fascinating ongoing battles in the american sprinting team where we saw what went on with

allyson felix and what went on with that debacle and that is after we come back after the break. all multivitamins give me the basics. they claim to be complete. only centrum goes beyond. providing more than just the essential nutrients, so i'm at my best. centrum. always your most complete.

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that is marion jones at home on the track and i'm back with her now. marian, what do you make of the big sprinting races about to start, and in particular, is usain bolt going to be beaten? because there is a general feel ing that he is not as good as he was last time and certainly not quite as fit. >> well, it's certainly going to be an incredible athletic competition in the next few days. of course, the favorite will be usain and the question marks regarding his health status are certainly important, but usain is a champion, world record holder obviously, and he's coming to the olympic games to do some fantastic things, and that's to win. certainly he is going to be challenged by his training

partner in johan blake. on the women's side, all the controversy to pass a few weeks ago with allyson and the runoff that actually was disappointied not to see. >> what did you think of that? i thought it was a strange conclusion to that. i assumed that they would both prefer as athletes to have a runoff. in the jen ba tomah didn't want to go through with it. felt so crushed having been told she was in then out that she just gave up, which i was surprised by. >> piers, i'm going to be as honest as i can with you right now. i was so disappointed to get that memo and see on the news there was not going to be a runoff.

so you've worked your whole life to get to this moment to try to get on the olympic team. something crazy happens like there's a tie, which never happens. and your opportunity is right there. you and one other person, right? why wouldn't you? i mean, i don't care if it is raining, cold, people talk about weather conditions were going to cause injury. who cares. this is your opportunity to make an olympic team and you're not going to do it? i'm going to probably get criticism for saying that, but that's every athlete's dream. i don't know the politics involved with coaches and sponsors. i'm sure there was pressure here and there. allyson has been to other olympic games, and she's going to be on the team for the 200, and running the relay. this young girl should have gone out there and ran the race and put it all on the line, and obviously i am a competitor, so not seeing the runoff, i was quite disappointed. >> well, i completely and utterly agree with you. i was staggered. i thought it was unlike an athlete to not rise to that challenge. you know what my theory is, the reason she didn't, secretly she knew she was lucky to get ahead of allyson felix and that she would probably beat her. that's the only thing i could think of.

which made any sense. >> but piers, even so, forget the fact that it is allyson felix, all of that. this is your moment. it was going to be on prime time, probably the biggest coverage that usa track and field will receive for a lot of time, right? and it is you and one other athlete in the sport of athletics, that never happens. it is never just you and one other person, and it is you and eight or nine or seven other competitors and this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and why not do it? why not do it? who cares about the sponsor pressure? who cares about the coaches? get on the line and put it all out there. oh, i mean, i hope that years from now she doesn't look back and say, gosh, and just slap herself in the face for not putting it out there. >> i agree. i find it as baffling as you do. the other thing was the story of

oscar pistorius who is the south african that uses prosthetic limbs. michael johnson was on last night, a good friend of his, he feels uncomfortable about it. he says it gives an advantage which he doesn't think he should have. what do you think. to me, you have a guy who had no legs who has limbs running with able bodied runners. >> i disagree with michael in a few points of this. i think if we're using that argument that this prosthetic leg gives him advantage, what about the argument that there are countries, third world countries that don't have all of the resources to give their athletes the best training, training on the best tracks, the best spikes, the best clothing, the best supplements, all of that. what about those countries that don't have the same advantages? he can use that argument for a lot of things. in fact, your reasoning exactly, the guy doesn't have legs! you know. how is he somehow at a disad n

disadvantage. you can't use that argument, because you is the look across the board. there are people who lined up against michael johnson in the first round of the olympics from countries that don't have spikes to share with their athletes, and they don't have superior training. they don't have monday -- mondo tracks to train on. aren't they at a disadvantage? isn't michael at an advantage because he lives in one of the most powerful countries in the world and has every advantage given to him? you can't use that example. >> michael had more expensive shoes than the national debt of some of the countries. >> and he trained on the best tracks in the world. i mean, come on. you can't go there. >> well, for the second time in this segment, i agree with you completely. now, let's turn to a more contentious subject, i'm sure. michael phelps has become the greatest statistical medal winning olympian in history. many people are saying that

makes him de facto the greatest olympian in history. do you agree or do you think there are other worthy contenders? i had one last night that has a better claim to the crown in carl lewis. what do you think? >> i think that the wording in all of this is just very important. i think certainly he will be considered one of the greatest olympians ever. i certainly think you need to look at all of the factors involved, obviously the fact that his particular events are so similar, right, but it is not like he has to run in the pool, see how far he can jump, then see how fast he can swim, you know, as opposed to the sport of track and field, for example, the disciplines are so much different. it might be easier to say well, jessie owens or a carl lewis might fit in that bill a little better, just because they were so -- they can do so many different things, but certainly one of the greatest olympians. >> gabby douglas won the gymnastics. >> yay.

>> she's beaten aly raisman. >> wow. >> that is a huge runoff between those two. what is your reaction? >> well, i love it. i love her. she's so -- i follow her on twitter and every time, i mean, all the girls, let me tell you, watching them the past few days has really made the olympic experience for me even that much better. but the fact that gabby has now won and can top off her team gold with individual gold, she's such an inspiration, such an inspiration to little girls, and even more specific to young african-american women that now -- this is the time they're looking for role models, people to grab hold to and aspire to be. and just a worthy, worthy recipient of winning today. it is just incredible. i'm happy for her. >> great news, i completely agree. i feel sorry for aly, she's also a brilliant role model. marion, a pleasure to talk to you. thank you so much. >> thank you, piers. enjoy your time in london. tomorrow my interview with

the fastest woman on earth, jamaica's veronica campbell brown, the three-time winning gold medal sprinter. now, having to smash records in london. she has competitive spirit as a child as i found out. here is a preview. you're one of nine brothers and sisters. i imagine it was very competitive when you were young, right? >> absolutely, yes, a lot of us, and so i learned to be competitive from a very young age. >> and you used to run barefoot, is that right? >> absolutely. you're correct. i actually used to race boys on the street, barefoot. i actually completed at national stadium barefoot. so yeah, that's true. >> did you beat the boys? >> i do. i used to race boys and i used to beat them as well. coming after the break, i reunite two old friends. when i say friends they have

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okay. now i'm going to get very overexcited. i am being joined by two of the great heavyweight boxing champions in history. america's pride, evander holyfield and lennox lewis. both titleholders, both olympic medal winners and welcome the you both, gentlemen. what are you? >> what? >> what are you? >> you can't see what i am? i am part of the commonwealth. >> where did you grow up from this spot? >> about five minutes. >> seriously? >> five minutes. don't recognize the place again. >> how much has east london changed, seriously. >> this is crazy. what enormous buildings erupted

into a place -- they're great buildings. >> it is amazing. you two slugged it out in two memorable fights. first was a draw. >> wasn't a draw. i won. >> let's not go there. it was declared a draw. evander, have you learned to accept he nicked that first one? >> he could have, but i got the second. they gave it to him. they didn't call it a draw. >> so they were both criminally wrong decisions -- is that how we are leaving this? >> all right. i will give you the benefit of the doubt, and let's say i won them both. [ laughter ] you may have won the first, not the second. >> the second one was closer. he was actually ready for me. i was kind of pissed off because he was singing in the first one. saying this guy is singing to fight me? okay. i'm going to take it serious. second one he wasn't singing. >> tell me this, you both competed in the olympics and won. how big a rt of a career as a professional boxer is competing

and winning at the olympics in terms of the global attention it gives you and everything else. what do you think, lennox? >> well, i think that winning the olympics is a great thing to do, because you are basically, you start out as an amateur boxer, and to complete the amateur tutelage, you have to be a olympic gold medalist, and like winning that is like a gold ticket to the professionals. it is a pedigree thing. once you won an olympic gold medal, you're supposed to go on and win heavy weight championship of the world. >> do you agree with that? >> i do believe that -- just like graduated with a degree. you get paid more money, you springboard into your professional career, and it showed that because you went to the olympics, all the

adjustments you had to make through amateur to allow you to be the complete fighter to be the champion. >> huge debate raging about who the greatest olympian of all time is because of michael phelps breaking the medal record. forget that. i don't want to ask you that. i am more interested in what will be a more lively debate. who is the greatest heavyweight boxer of them all, because you two would be mentioned on many people's lips. who do you think, who is the top do dog? >> well, it depends how you look at it. what you did in the ring. >> let me ask this question. who would be the boxer in history heavyweight that you would least want to fight. present company excepted. >> i would say jack johnson. he is the first heavyweight for me. you could say muhammad ali. muhammad ali was a man i looked on the tv and i said, look at this man. he is amazing.

every time he fought, i wanted to see him fight. the special thing i loved about muhammad ali is that every time he moved the feet really fast, the shoe shine was the greatest thing. once he did that, it was like, yeah, yeah, look at at the feet move. but as far as if i would want to fight them, no. it breaks down into era, and that is an era itself. my era is different. our era, we're bigger. muhammad ali's era was smaller. it is a different era. >> who were your personal heroes? >> ali was. i was eight years old. i was told i could be a heavyweight champion like ali. i weighed 65 pounds, 8 years old and they said, well, if you don't quit, you could be it. so i didn't quit and 20 years later i became the heavyweight

cham champion of the world. >> and you two have slugged it out and gone through 15 rounds together? 12 rounds. 24 rounds of smacking seven bells out of each other. >> doesn't ring the bell around here. >> how can you still be friend how does the boxing fraternity ly? deal with the fact that for months you prepare to smack each other to seven bells, then now i see you and you can get on well? >> well, with me, it is not personal. it is a job and i truly believe that we both have the right to be the very best that we can. you know, and i trained. he trained. and we get into who is the best that night, and when that night is over, you know, i might brush it off. >> did you look at evander holyfield's eyes? even now they terrify me. didn't they bring back terrible memories, bearing down on you followed by fists?

>> not really. we solved that all in the ring. once we -- we are obviously competitors and we both feel that we're the best. we step into the ring to prove it. and it doesn't matter what happens in the ring, we end up respecting each other afterwards, because, you know, in the ring, we are trying to kill each other. i'm trying to knock him out, and he is trying to knock he out, but afterwards, we realize the sacrifice it takes just to be in the ring, and we realize what we have gone through, and we just leave it all in the ring. after that, you know, there is no need to hate each other or fight each other, because we are come p competitors. >> i always wondered this. when you're heavyweight champion of the world, go out in bars, clubs, whatever, there must be the biggest guy in the room fancies his chances, right? >> well, you want to hear a joke. first time i went to a club, i seen evander holyfield, and it is like, y'all, he's in there.

and i was saying where is he? they said well, he's out there dancing. i'm saying he's out there dancing? i went over, i see him dancing, and the guy can dance! [ laughter ] he was out there all night. i was trying to talk to him, the man was out there dancing! >> did you ever get people coming up, trying it out. >> all the time, every time you walk into a club, it is like the bouncers pick up their chest. it is like i don't even bother with it. i realize they're getting paid $50 an hour. i'm getting paid millions. [ laughter ] >> that leads me to the break. i want to come back, talk about america. you both have a lot to be grateful to america, huge stars in in the american sporting scene, and what's happening to america? you guys could probably single-handedly put the economy back on track. one fight, $200 million, don

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this may be the biggest

anti-climax drama since the impeachment. if he wins, it will be the biggest news in british isles in many a decade. >> evander holyfield and lennox lewis in that title fight in 1999 ended in a shocking draw. shocking because they'll both tell you they won it. welcome back, gentlemen. i feel rude, e vander. i should have asked you at the start of the interview, how is your ear? >> it is good. it is good. it's all right. >> did it fall off? >> he snagged a piece of it, and spit it out. >> that moment when you realize mike tyson has decided to eat your ear in the middle of a fight, what goes through your mind? >> shocking. i was shocked. of all of the things that could have happened, i never thought that could have happened.

>> lennox, you were watching that and what did you think? >> i was horrified. i was like, we are gladiators, man. we don't bite. that is -- i mean, that is from the amateur days to pro, we don't even think of biting. we are guys that settle it all with the fists. but to be bitten, and, you don't even know this, but mike tyson bit me on the leg, too, so we are both sitting here and being bitten. >> so i'm the only person in the room has not been bitten by mike tyson? >> yes. my bite was more a shock as well because it was a press conference in new york and you know, came walking over to me. my security stopped him. threw a punch at my security, then i hit him. all of a sudden he dove at my legs, everybody went like this. at the bottom of the pile way. i was feeling pain, pushing down on the pain. i see mike tyson looking up like this. i was like he bit my leg! [ laughter ]

and you know, i was wearing like expensive suit at the time and slippery shoes. so i wasn't coming there for a fight. then i made a rule that every press conference i go to that i am going to fight someone, i'm wearing running shoes. >> the reason i don't think mike bit me when i interviewed him, he had watched "celebrity apprentice" and seen me knock you out at the last minute, thought, i'm not going to mix it with morgan. >> he knows i was bodyguarding you for awhile. the americans wanted you. >> i did knock you out. >> you won, yes. >> i knocked you out. use the phrase. say it. moving on from denial. let's just relive it. donald trump, lennox, i love boxing, but you're fired. remember that? >> briefly. and i don't mind getting fired by him. he's a rich guy. >> it was a tough old series. discuss that another time. evander, let's talk about america for a moment.

when the athletes come here, boxers, sprinters, all of them, they all represent america. what do you think of your country at the moment? >> of course, i think when it all come down, people are divided. i think people have to come together. that's the only way you can change anything. >> lennox, you have a lot to be grateful to america for. it is a great country, isn't it? they put on some huge fights, you make a lot of money in america. what do you think of the place? >> i think it is a great place. i love going there, different parts of it, vegas, california, miami, different places. >> what's your advice to the athletes here, british, canadian, american, whatever, you've both been in that position, got all of the sprinters coming this weekend, huge pressure, usain bolt, everything else, what would be the best advice to young olympians you would give? >> me, all i would really say, we create our own pressure, so if you feel pressure, you know,

you're creating it. one thing i'd say is that nobody really remembers any other medal but gold, so have gold in your mind. >> correct me if i'm wrong, by all means, say you did well to do bronze and silver, but everyone wants to win gold. right? >> yes. >> if you don't win gold, you will never be as happy not winning gold. that's what sports are about? >> it is about winning. i shot for gold, end up with bronze. when it is all said and done, i'm glad i got a medal and my career went on past that. i didn't get the gold medal, but the bronze and i'm the first one to become champion in the united states. >> and you know what, he would have won the gold anyway, because that was a bad call anyway. i would have said that he won

the gold. he was the gold medalist anyway. >> you're both looking good. my final question. if it suddenly kicked off right now here, if something happened, one of you said something, you got it on again, who would win the third battle? >> i would, of course. >> evander? >> of course he would say that. you know, i'm the guy don't have to say it, i'm the person that will do it. [ laughter ] >> gentlemen, it has been a real pleasure, seriously, thank you very much indeed. coming up, the most extraordinary story of life and death involving a british soccer star whose heart stopped 78 minutes. it is a remarkable tale. he joins me next. people have doubts about taking aspirin for pain.

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he is under some stress as well. what you just witnessed is one of the most extraordinary moments in sporting history. that was the terrifying few seconds on an english football field when a player who is a well known professional english footballer for the baltimore wonder team collapsed. his heart stopped beating for 78

minutes. everybody assumed he had died. what happened next is nothing short of miraculous. seven weeks later, he was well enough to return to the team. his recovery has been an extraordinary tale of survival. he joins me now. welcome. >> hi. >> i was in america when this happened, you were playing for bolton. >> yeah. >> used to play for my beloved team arsenal. it was one of the most harrowing things i witnessed. everybody assumed you lost your life that day. what do you recall, if anything, of what happened? >> piers, what i remember most about that day, as you guys know, we play football, we go on the routine, get changed, get ready, you go out and do the warmup. that day i never felt different, any of that. felt my normal self. about two minutes before the incident, i started to feel

dizzy. i felt for a second it would go away. and two minutes later just the incident happened and my head fell down on the ground and the first time i hit the ground, but the second time, that is when i was completely gone. >> you have never seen the video we played. going to make sure you don't watch it when you see this. i am sure one day curiosity will get the better of you and you will. what happened in that stadium was an amazing outpouring of emotion from the crowd. people were bursting into tears. everybody assumed they witnessed the death of a top professional football player. when was the moment for you when you began to recover several days later that you thought, i'm alive. what happened to me? >> well, it happened on a saturday, but i didn't wake up until the monday and i did not fully wake up until monday. >> 48 hours. >> yes, that is when i started to recognize what has happened

and happened to me. my fiancee at that time told me what happened and she explained to me what happened. you know, i had to take a moment, and adjust myself, because it was a shocking moment for me. until now, sometime when i think about it how far i have come. >> and other players. there was an italian player who exact ly the same thing happene, and he died. you would be aware of that. >> when it happened and i go to the hospital and exactly what happened to me and him, and how i survive and obviously he did not make it, that hit home to me and really, really shook me, because it could happen to me, and it happened to me in a better place than the football place, because if it had happened in the bedroom, i don't know if we would be having this conversation. >> and the whole of britain to put it in context for the american viewers the britain

country was watching this all day, and willing you the come through and everybody fearing the worst. >> and people were afraid that i would not make it. there was a point when i was not able to make it, because it happened so quick, and the effect of it was so powerful that it took me a while to kind of get back to where i was, and people just didn't know exactly what was going on. but i mean, i thank god i'm alive here and thank god for the people who pray for me and the medical staff who helped me to be here, because you to give credit to those guys. they never stop giving me cpr and the people who worked on me in the hospital, they were very, very good. >> and you have been through so much, because you came from congo, in after cin africa, and war-torn country and the father fled the regime and came the britain and you didn't see him for three years and you came over here and reunited and then carved out a life as a football

player. so you had been through a hell of an experience already in your life. >> well, piers, everybody has a path of lie, and where they are for a reason. my walk of life is different, because i had to come here to have a better life. and my mother told me when i was young, whatever you want to do, go out to do it, and do it with everything that you are to give. that stuck inside of me in everywhere i go, and every walk in my life. i tell that to my son, whatever you have to do to be the best person you are. that got me even more close to my dad and through the whole situation and we have become more close, but it was just a moment of life where, you know, you look back and you think, wow, and at one point, i was not playing football and the playing football and then i died and came back alive and we were doing this and that and it is incredible. i want to let you into the one secret that you don't know. >> all right. >> i have played already.

>> since the incident happened? >> yes, we were in dubai and with a couple of friends and a couple of footballers in the hotel. so we decide to play the game against the staff and the players. >> you did? >> yes. >> when was that? >> about in may, about may, so i play for about 25 minutes. >> how did it feel? >> very good. i miss that feeling, you know. >> you would have been on the great britain soccer team here in the olympics? >> yes, i would have made the 40-man squad. >> and you can play in the next one? >> no, i don't think so. >> i wish you fabrice all of the very best and i hope you play again and if you play the arsenal as a former arsenal guy, i hope you lose. >> okay. piers. >> thank you. and amazing story of sporting survival. we will be right back. those surprising little things she does still make you take notice. there are a million reasons why. but your erectile dysfunction that could be a question of blood flow.

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that is all for tonight. "ac360" starts right now. and now, what they do in his state doubling down and tripling down and now quad ruppling down claiming that mitt romney didn't pay any taxes for a decade without the chips to back it up. governor romney responded sharply today. >> it stim for harry to put up or shut up. and it is time for him to say who he spoke with, because it is totally and utterly wrong and untrue and inaccurate and wrong. so i am looking forward to having harry reveal his sources, and we are going to probably find out it is the white house. >> so far he has not, and as you will see in a moment when dana bash joins us, he is not backing down a bit, and offering no facts, but allegations an insen sinewations. before we go further on the story, you should know we are not being partisan here, because for weeks we have reported on michele bachmann and the

colleagues who are making unfounded allegations about islamic radicals infiltrating the american government, and making connections with hillary clinton. extraordinary allegations require extraordinary proof or frankly any kind of proof. michele bachmann and company don't have any proof, and neither does harry reid. this began earlier in the week when mr. reid told the "huffington post," he didn't pay any taxes for ten years. he went on, do i know that is true? well, i'm not certain. that is harry reid saying i'm not certain. so you would think that not being certain about the truth of an explosive allegation you would keep it to yourself? well, instead, harry reid went further with local reporters say saying he had a quote number of people tell me that, unquote. so it went from one person telling him to now a