in a special edition of "early start." good morning, i'm zoraida sambolin. >> i'm john burman. president obama fighting back from his first debate showing more energy and passion last night. mitt romney standing his ground attacking the president aggressively on the president's handling of the economy and in libya. >> here is how america scored it all. a cnn/orc poll of registered voter who is watch the debate give the edge to the president, 46% to 39%. >> dana bash is here in studio. according to the poll, voters thought obama did better and exceeded their expectations. >> it's because he came to play,

unlike last time, perhaps. but so did mitt romney. and that made the evening so crackling with energy. you may think the debate in front of undeclared persuadable voters would produce right performances. think again. >> in the last four years -- >> reporter: at time this is town hall looked like a school-yard brawl. >> not true, governor romney. that's not true. >> i had a question and the question was how much did you cut them by? how much did you cut them by? >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> reporter: if memorable debates are about moments, one here was on libya. >> who was it that denied enhanced security and why? >> reporter: it was the question conservatives were waiting for. a chance to slam the president for lax security and changing stories on what prompted last month's deadly benghazi attack. >> there was no demonstration involved. it was a terrorist attack. i think you have to ask yourself, why didn't we know five days later when the ambassador to the united nations went on tv to say it was a

demonstration. how could we have not known? >> the president threw down the commander in chief card. >> and the suggestion that anybody on my team whether it is the secretary of state or the u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own governor, is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president, that's not what i do as commander in chief. >> reporter: romney's offensive on national security did not go as planned. >> the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror. >> the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack he went in the rose garden and said this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an

act of terror. >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. let me call it an act of terror. >> can you say that a little louder, candy? >> reporter: throughout the debate the president tried to make up for the first one. this time he used the 47% attack line. >> when he said behind closed doors that 47% of the country considered themselves victims, who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. >> reporter: and romney who dominated the stage in the first debate was going for a repeat performance. >> you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. and the answer is i don't believe people think that's the case because that was not the question, that was a statement. >> reporter: in an attempt to reach the critical vote may have fallen flat, he answered a story about equal pay about his massachusetts cabinet. >> i went to a number of groups and said can you help find

women? >> reporter: within minutes romney's book of women had a twitter handle. >> romney said this plan kills and took great pride in shuttling it down. and now suddenly you're a big champion of coal. >> reporter: romney determined to use his rehearsed lines, even when off topic. the question was on immigration but romney launched into a defense of his offshore investments with a practice pivot against the president. >> any investments i have over the last eight years were managed by a blind trust and i understand they do include investments outside the united states, including in chinese companies. mr. president, have you looked at your pension? have you looked at your pension? >> i've got to say -- >> president, have you looked at your pension? >> i don't look at my pension. it is not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long. >> now, obviously, the audience was full of undeclared or uncommitted voters, i should

say. it was so clear in watching all 90 minutes both of the candidates were really playing to their base. >> they were on fire. we have been talking all morning, the candidates were feisty, fiery, and in some cases the president was just much more aggressive. the question is, how will that play? will that affect his likability? in a sense from last night? >> we did another instant poll that does show it is about even when it comes to likability. >> that's interesting. >> i have this poll right there. it is not about -- obama has 47% and romney 41%. if you look at the people who were actually polled and work the numbers, it tends to be about even, but the overall point is that these are two men who both have trouble connecting. this was the kind of format that would have allowed for let's say in a bill clinton time to really make that connection and have the empathy moment. and because neither of them tends to be able to do that, it didn't come across as startling

as it would have with one of them really connecting. >> i'll tell you what it came across as contentious. i look at the transcripts first and the back and forth was just incredible. the moments, you could feel how tense it was, even in the worded back and forth. so i'm surprised at the likability, actually. i thought obama's numbers would have been higher as in the past. >> it shows his numbers were more aggressive to take the fight to mitt romney without sacrificing his likability. the fear was he was too aggressive and the numbers would get repressed. >> they were both aggressive, so it evened out being aggressive. dana bash, appreciate it. our cnn political activist david and gloria offered their expert analysis as soon as it was over, as did john king. >> most improved. that award goes to barack obama. i think he had a much stronger

debate tonight. you can read social media, there are a lot of people out there, democrats are all fired up. but i must tell you, i think mitt romney has had two very good debates back to back. a solid performance tonight. >> both sides can leave thinking they want to do what they want to do. zero question, democratic intensity will come back. governor romney did a good job prosecuting against the incumbent's record. >> mitt romney's best moments were focusing on the economic record and saying the middle class has been buried many times, which we have heard before. for me, the president's best moments were romney versus romney. >> gloria borger said the president pointed out differences in mitt romney's positions at various points in his career as governor, primary candidate and now as republican nominee. i just got back up here from washington. we are doing fact checking down there and i want to talk about -- >> you had a lot of work to do, let me tell you. >> one of the most explosive

exchanges was on oil drilling and energy production. we want to shed light on this. mitt romney claimed under president obama production on government land is down. >> production on government land is down. production on government land of oil is down 14%. and production of gas is down 9%. >> it is just not true. >> it is absolutely true. >> so what are the facts here? the department of energy says production on federal land has drawn from 2 million barrels a day to 1.8 million a day in the last year available. that's 2011. they attribute that largely to the aftermath of the water horizon spill in the gulf. our verdict to you on this narrow claim of 14% drop in the last available year is true but misleading because it does not tell the whole story of oil production on federal land because listen to this, on oil the president made his own claims about production on federal lands. >> we've opened up public lands. we are actually drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration.

and the previous president was an oil man. >> so even with the one-year drop on production in the federal land, there has been more drilling per year during the obama administration than during the last term of the bush administration. so our verdict on what the president said is true. so what you can see here is he's cherry-picking facts, they each have elements of truth, they are both right but they managed to get a contentious debate in there. >> with you doing the fact checking, like candy crowley on libya, it helps to understand if he's telling the truth or not telling the truth. is it i complete? are they telling the facts? >> there's so much cherry-picking. i have another fact check for you. the president has gone back and forth on paying for college. did mitt romney's words match his plan on student loans? romney suggested to expand the pell grant program. >> i want to make sure we keep

our pell grant program growing. we are also going to have our loan program so that people are able to afford school. >> now, the facts here romney's education called a chance for every child does not say he'll expel pell grants but it criticized obama's expansion of federal grants in places. mitt romney also supported versions of the house-passed ryan budget to sharply reduce pell grants. the verdict here is that his plans keep pell grants growing, that's false. ten minutes past the hour, more post-game reaction ahead at the bottom of the hour with ana navarro and richard socarides. and we'll countdown already to the next presidential debate monday night at 7:00 eastern. debate number three, this time it is personal. ten minutes after the hour, issue number one, of course, is jobs. governor romney jumped on that issue last night.

let's listen. >> we have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office. >> so is the governor right about this? we'll do a fact-check on that coming up. [ female announcer ] a classic meatloaf recipe from stouffer's starts with ground beef, unions, and peppers baked in a ketchup glaze with savory gravy and mashed russet potatoes. what makes stouffer's meatloaf best of all? that moment you enjoy it at home. stouffer's. let's fix dinner. [ male announcer ] why do more emergency workers everywhere trust duracell...?? duralock power preserve. locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. now...guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere.

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good morning. welcome back to "early start." christine romans is fact-checking the points made about the economy in last night's debate. >> you are starting with issue number one, jobs. >> the president most recently has said 7.8% unemployment is good for the president, but last night mitt romney was very clear the depths of the job crisis is much worse than the 7.8% number suggests. this is the claim from mitt romney. listen. >> we have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office. if the unemployment rate was 7.8% when he took office, it's 7.8% now.

but if you calculated that unemployment rate taking back the people who dropped out of the workforce, it would be 10.7%. >> so let's look at the first part of the claim. there are fewer people working today than in january of 2009. my answer to this is maybe because there's two ways you can calculate the bureau of labor statistics data without preliminary revisions mitt romney is right. governor romney is right. you have 61,000 fewer people working today than when the president took office. but if you factor in some preliminary revisions that the bureau of labor statistics just gave us the last couple of weeks, actually the president sees job creation in his tenure. it's straddling the line. bottom line, there are not many more people working now than when the president took office. let's look at the second part of this. the second part of this he's talking about something that has to do with the labor force participation rate. here's the chart. this chart shows you the labor force participation rate is the lowest since 1981. what does that mean?

what it means if you look at that participation rate and you calculate the unemployment rate taking into account all the people who dropped out of the labor market, then mitt romney is correct. the unemployment rate is 10.7%. now why have all these people dropped out of the labor market? some have retired. we have baby boomers retiring like crazy, some have a spouse working and are not given the opportunities in the labor market and are staying home. some have dropped out because they have been left out of the recovery. the verdict is that the unemployment rate would be 10.7% if you factor in the people who dropped out, governor romney is correct. >> we don't know why they dropped out. >> there are a lot of reasons they are dropping out. much more debate coverage ahead on "early start." also, the deadly meningitis outbreak takes a new turn. the company at the center of it all now raided by federal agents. ♪

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and permits on federal lines and federal waters? >> governor romney, here's what we did. there were a whole but ch of oil companies. >> i had a question and the question was how much did you cut them by? >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> all right. and it is -- mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> i've got to say -- >> mr. president, have you looked at your pension. >> i don't look at my pension. it is not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long. >> let me give you some advice. >> that was one of the light moments of the debate. here's how you scored it of registered voters watching the debate. given the decision to president obama by a 46% to 39% margin. in other news the pharmaceutical company linked to a deadly outbreak of meningitis is now the target of a federal criminal investigation after agents from the department of justice and the fda raided the new england compounding center armed with a search warrant in hand. so far 15 people have died from a non-contagious form of

meningitis. associated with a contaminated steroid produced by that company. a company that makes batteries for lek stielectric ct received $250 million in federal funding filed for bankruptcy. a123 systems was unable to make a debt payment. more ammunition for critics to say the obama administration should not offer federal money to start-up companies in the alternative oil industry. markets are up across the board following a tuesday rally on wall street. the dow jones jumped 127 points. the nasdaq rose 37%. and the s&p 500 was up nearly 15 points. there was other big news last night. the detroit tigers one win away from the world series beating up on the new york yankees 2-1 behind their ace justin very lander. they lead the series three games to none. they can sweep the game with a win tomorrow night.

the only baseball team to come back from an 0-3 deficit, name it. >> i don't know. >> the red sox. >> when was the last time they won the world series? >> 2007. >> when was the last time the white sox did? >> 2005. 2005. >> yes. >> you beat me on that one. 5:22. it will be beyonce on nfl's biggest stage. she's headline the super bowl halftime show. beyonce posting a photo on her website sporting eye black that reads february 3, 2013. the date of the super bowl in new orleans. an official announcement from the nfl is expected today. and a much different debate this time around. the sharper tone with a lot more tension. so who won? the results of our cnn poll and we have a lot more highlights as well coming up. and if you're leaving the house right now, watch us any time at all on your desk top and mobile phone, go to cnn.com/tv. 100% new.

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i can deliver, governor, a whole bunch of democrats to get conservation reform done. and we can't -- >> no, how much did you cut -- >> debate fact check. mitt romney saying president obama did not deliver on immigration reform. >> we'll look at the reality ahead on the special post-debate "early start." >> i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks and they brought us binders full of women. >> binders is the big buzz word of this debate. we'll take a look at what else from the debate is trending on the web this morning.

welcome back to "early start." i'm john berman. >> i'm zoraida sambolin. two presidential debates down, one to go now. with president obama turning in a decidedly stronger performance against mitt romney last night in the town hall. the viewers agree with cnn's post-debate poll showing the president taking the top spot over romney 46% to 39%. compare that with the first presidential debate that put romney over obama a whopping 67% to 25%. >> we'll be bringing you up to the minute analysis all morning and looking ahead to the third and final debate, which is next week. that will be the last chance the candidates have to make their cases to the american electorate. with us now to talk about all of this, cnn contributor ana navarro and cnn contributor roland martin, and senior congressional correspondent dana bash from cnn. the first question, obviously, a

much different debate than the first one. president obama, did he do what he had to do? richard? >> i think it was a great night and a great debate. it was obviously a great night for the president who made a strong defense of what he's been trying to do. and most importantly he demonstrated that voters should not trust the romney plan because it does not add up. >> i think it was a very good night for president obama. he stopped the bleeding and brought in his a-game. i thought it was a good night for mitt romney. but it was a much better night for president obama and part of it is because he was being compared to obama in the first debate. and because also there were much lower expectations this time on president obama than there has been in the first debate. >> a cnn post debate poll showed president obama exceeded expectations. 73% said he did better than expected. 37% say romney did. does that make a difference?

>> you saw the polling information after the first debate where mitt romney picked up eight various points in the polls. he also needed to show the cop that's wean his record and mitt romney's record. i also thought body language was interesting. the president appeared angry. to be firm is not angry. there were moments literally when mitt romney turned his back to the audience and was trying to put the president -- the president brushed him off and walked away from him to keep engaging the person who sh showed -- romney wanted to go on attack and the president said, i'll let him ask questions. >> a lot of people thought this was better suited for president obama. how do you think that mitt romney goes in this type of

format. >> i think the president made a mistake trying to play moderator way too much. he has a tendency to do this and it looks awkward. he was trying to do two things. first he was trying to enforce the rules themselves. and then he took on the job of asking president obama the questions directly. when that happens, you give president obama a second shot at responding. part of the reason that president obama got four more minutes of time to respond than mitt romney did during the debate. >> i see roland over there -- >> it is interesting because talking to romney before this debate, i was told they really did focus a lot in prep on the style and format knowing that every move he makes is going to be judged, the presidential expression he makes and the voter, or the flip side of that

is he did practice it and they have just decided this is completely about getting the base out and the base wants to see and aggressive mitt romney just like the democratic base wants to see the same from obama. >> the contentious moment where the moment he mistook the libya moment was an amazing moment, which he had to have practiced if he got wrong. >> this was a huge moment in the debate. one people talked about all night and immediately after. this deals with the attack on the cops lot in benghazi and how president obama responded to it. let's listen. >> the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden and told the american people in the world we are going to find out exactly what happened. this was an act of terror. and i also said we are going to hunt down those who committed this crime.

>> i want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi a terror attack. >> he did call it an act of terror. >> can you say that louder? >> he did call it an act of terror. >> mitt romney called it an act of terror. clearly mitt romney didn't know what he said. >> even more important in terms of equal bases. when you sought the president who made it clear, i am the president, you saw the president lecturing romney and this is how a president responds. then he stops and simply turns and walks away and goes back to his seat. romney is sitting through going, i just got put in check by the president. it was an amazing moment. >> how do you explain it? >> i think the president had a very good, solid answer.

i think he went on the offensive first. i was disappointed by the response from romney and thought, we knew this was going to come up. he flubbed it and could have gone on the offensive. mitt romney did not exploit it. >> mitt romney was prepared for that. they were eating that all day. >> it was a gimmick for romney. i talked to romney advisers involved in the prep right afterwards who were trying to defend the broader message. if you heard the first answer he gave, they talked about what they wanted to talk at that there was no protest and that the security intelligence was not bad. the. >> i want to play some more from

the new york times. they called it the bear-fisted rematch. let's look at the fiery moments. >> how much did you cut licensing on federal waters? >> governor romney, here's what we did. >> i had a question and the question was how much did you cut them by. >> you want me to answer a question, i'm happy to do that. >> mr. president, have you looked at your pension? mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> i don't look at my pension. it is not as big as yours. >> let me give you some advice. >> i don't check it that often. >> dana just said, i thought they were going to start a fight. it was contentious at times. who does this hurt or help? you talked about the likability numbers earlier, did this fighting favor one candidate over the other? >> first of all, dana, this reminded me of 2008 with al gore

and george w. bush. dude, why are you standing this close to me? i think romney with high unfavorable numbers, this may have hurt his likability. he was pressing so much he never came across as a likable person. he would not even answer several of the questions the audience was asking. the ak-47 question, he is talking about mexico. i'm sure they wanted him to say, please, get back to my question. >> there were also questions president obama didn't answer. who was responsible for denying the request for additional security in benghazi. i didn't hear an answer to that. >> i think he got the last lines in and that was helpful to him, but i think they both came up as fairly likable girl.

>> the most important moment was at the end when mitt romney i credibly brings up the 47% by making that reference to 100% and knowing president obama would have the last word, president obama just went in and he gave at the end of it the most beautiful crisp answer, a defense of why he's entitled to a second term referencing the 47%. the democrats were pretty happy. >> you talked about the humor because a lot has been said since the debate of mitt romney's binders. we heard him say he was talking about his efforts to get women more involved in the companies he worked in. this resonates to mind. let's listen to that here. >> i said, gosh, can't we find some women that are also qualified? >> we took a concerted effort to go out to find women with backgrounds qualified to become members of the cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us

find folks and they brought us binders full of women. >> that's what we have been talking about quite a bit this morning. >> it is not mail order brides. or people applying for jobs. >> the question was, equal pay for women. and the issue is, sure, you can hire a woman or are you going to pay the woman a fair wage. the president said this is not a women's issue but a family issue. a man should be out there raise ing money. romney would not answer the question. the woman is saying, give me a job but are you going to pay less? >> both of them -- i don't know about you two ladies, i counted the word 18 times in the romney account which we have like 12 counts. if it had been the work for the drinking game, we all would

be -- >> that answer is and amazing example of why the debates are important. here governor romney thought he was giving an answer that would be helpful to him but, in fact, by telling the story of his hisry of trying to hire women and so forth, really kind of shows the approach he and his feel have on the affairs, i have to make a special effort because it was not plain in sight. >> he had response with pandering in it. >> i felt there was no response. what he was asked about was equal pay and legislation and never answered the question. so it left you wanting a real answer at the end of the day. >> dana bash, roland martin, great to have you here. we'll talk more about this. >> animal house. >> it's a lot like that. this topic did not come up at

all at the debate last night but latino voters did come up with time. what did the candidates say? we'll fact-check them coming up. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. your soups are so awesomely delicious my husband and i can't stop eating 'em! what's...that... on your head? can curlers! tomato basil, potato with bacon... we've got a lot of empty cans. [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

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trust duracell...?? duralock power preserve. locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. now...guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. welcome back to "early start." it was fight night with president obama and mitt romney sparring on a whole host of issues, including this time for the first time illegal immigration. on that subject, cnn's tom foreman has our debate reality check. >> republicans have been going after president obama for months saying he's not engaged in the issue of illegal immigration. listen to how mitt romney attacked him and how the president responded. >> why did he fail to even promote legislation that would have provided an answer for

those that want to come here illegally and those here illegally today. >> we put more border control on any time in history and the flow of undocumented workers across the border is lower than it has been in 40 years. >> this basic claim that president obama produced no immigration reform goes hand and glove with the bigger republican narrative, which is that the president has been so concerned about getting latino votes he has not wanted to secure the border or deal with illegal immigration. republicans like to point to figures like this from homeland security showing how many people were arrested for being in the country illegally. back in 2000, 1.8 million. that's a lot that me anders during the push years. but down here in the obama years, it drops down to say he does not want to engage the issue. but there's more to the story. let's look at another graphic, deportations. what's happened to the people who have been arrested? those were pretty low in 2000 and started steadily moving up.

and in the obama years, they reached the highest level we have seen under any president. president obama embraced the policies of george bush when it came to securing the border down there and continued to program to increase funding to put more guards down there, to put more motion detectors and cameras, more drones and helicopters, more airplanes. so many so that now we also have the help of an economic change, the jobs here that are attractive, the pew hispanic center says the net illegal immigration is about zero. president obama can say he really did something on that front. on the more narrow question, though, the idea that he promised comprehensive immigration reform, mitt romney is correct. he did not deliver. that is true. the president did push the dream act at one point with administration taken to help those children who came here illegally, but the bigger package he has to deal with in

the second administration if he's re-elected. tom foreman has a cool virtual reality room to lay things out. >> that would be nice to see behind the scenes. >> i did see it. it was neat. younger voters tuning in last night to hear about college loans were not disappointed either. the candidates went head-to-head over pell grants. the president said more students are getting them since he took office, so what are we doing? we are checking the facts for you. that is coming up. so what do you think? basic.

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good morning to you. welcome back to "early start." christine romans is fact-checking the points made about the economy and education in the debate. >> there was a lot of talk last night about student loans and pell grants. >> and opportunities after you take on all the debt. let's listen very clearly to what the president said about opportunities via pell grants. >> earlier governor romney talked about he wants to make pell grants and other education accessible for young people. the truth of the matter is that's exactly what we have done. we have expanded pell grants for millions of people and millions of young women all across the country. >> in fact, the president in the administration have remade the student loan business and they have expanded both the size and the number of pell grants available. so the verdict here is true. pell grants expanded for millions. take a look at how many people

by the year 2010/2011 school year, you had 9.3 million people received pell grants. and the size of the pell grant has also been raised from the average of $2,971 in the 2008/2009 school year to $3,833 now. what does governor romney want to do with pell grants? >> i want to make sure we keep the pell grant program growing and we'll have the lope program so people are able to afford school. >> so he has until now been pretty consistent in saying, and also the ryan budget, by the way, has cuts for things like this or cuts for education across the board. that's new to me. i want to make sure we keep our pell grant program growing. that is a new thing from governor romney. >> that does not include growth for pell grants. that was a new statement. >> some conservatives say all the money available for federal

backstopping of education drives up tuition anyway. so there's that context around this debate as well. >> thank you, christine. so big bird nowhere to be found this time around, apparently. the buzz words last night, binders of women. that and more trending topics from the debate are coming up. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac

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it is 55 minutes past the hour. just as important as the debate itself is the general media. last night 7.2 million tweets came in during the first 90 minutes. if you are going to break down

the numbers, this is adam shark, head of innovation on twitter. 7 million tweets throughout the 90-minute debate. how does that compare to the last debate? >> it is a little bit less. in denver it was 10.3 million tweets for the night. but if you look back to four years ago in 2008, the four debates combined total only half a million tweets. >> and you are able to break down the 7.2 million tweets into topics, so what are the topics? what are people discussing the most? >> we looked at various key words and the most creative topic was no surprise the economy followed by taxes, foreign policy and it started to drop off more from there. but we also can see particular in a moment what people were reacting to. 100,000 tweets per minute during the immigration when romney stumbled over an audience member's name. just below that, the president

saying my pension is not as big as yours. but gun control, equal taxes and equal pay for women. >> you were comparing this to the olympics and the amount of tweeting going on there. put that in perspective for us. >> the most tweeted sporting moment of the olympics was 80,000 tweets per minute during usain bolt's last run. and the olympics is more of a global event than domestic politics. truly large numbers we are seeing. >> romney's binder remark became a big buzz word. did you follow that as well? >> yes, before the end of the debate there were tens of thousands of tweets about the binder remark. someone created a parody account. romney's binder that picked up 30,000 followers before the debate even ended. this is similar to the republican convention in tampa following clint eastwood's speech we saw the account called

invisible obama in the empty chair. we have seen the back and forth in the spin room after the debate or playing out over a long-day news cycle are happening in realtime. you can get closer to them and watch them yourself. >> what about during the vice presidential debate with the word malarky? >> big bird was one of the top five words of the debate. the vp debate overall, half the traffic of what we saw last night. what was interesting there, talking about the change of the news cycle. within minutes of joe biden saying the word malarky, the obama campaign was running campaign ads based on the word malarky. for viewers at home, this allows you to get closer to the event, closer to the candidates and the issues in realtime.

>> it is mind boggling. really appreciate it, adam sharp, head of social i no ovation. thank you for coming in early this morning. the romney campaign photo op turns into a political punch line. here's john stewart's take on paul ryan's trip to a soup kitchen gone wrong. >> controversy again on the campaign trail. a campaign stop in georgia, i'm kidding, he was in ohio. is there another state other than [ bleep ] ohio? not in october there isn't! ryan seen here in photos he somehow signed a release for, or perhaps these are outtakes from his "real world" audition tape. anywho, ryan was campaigning in ohio when he decided to volunteer hat a soup kitchen. >> according to the president, the candidate was washing pans already clean. they can't be clean only after all the pay drops had left the

place. >> do you know how hard it is to make volunteering at a homeless shelter look like a negative thing? so apparently ryan did wash dishes but dishes set aside and left unclean specifically so they can take pictures of pictu selflessly washing them so we because we're so [ bleep ] dumb believe that he'd been caught in the act of volunteering. later food was withheld from nursing home patients so that ryan could arrive and reanimate them through the magic of applesauce. >> "early start" continues right now. in the octagon -- >> governor romney says he's got a five-point plan. governor romney doesn't have a five-point plan he has a one-point plan. >> why am i lower being taxes on the middle class? because under the past four years they've been buried. >> president obama and governor romney rumbled in the town hall. this time each candidate gave as good as they got. >> is that what you're saying? >> please proceed, governor.

>> and it got ugly. >> have you looked at your pension, mr. president? have you looked at your pension? >> you know, i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours. >> this morning we go to the score cards. hear from the voters, and keep the candidates honest. >> that wasn't a question. >> okay. >> that was a statement. >> on a special edition of "early start." >> good morning and welcome to "early start" everyone. debate aftermath. i'm john berman. >> and i'm zoraida sambolin. it's 6:00 a.m. in the east and we begin with the obama romney rematch. a fiery showdown that turned out to be a lot more come pattive than their first debate. with a more energized and feisty barack obama who took the stage at hofstra university last night. but mitt romney stood his ground, aggressively attacking the president on the economy and foreign policy. >> here's how america scored it. a cnn/orc poll of registered voters who watched the debate giving the nod to the president, 46% to 39%. now compare that to the first

presidential debate that put romney over obama with a whopping 67% to 25%. we're joined this morning by cnn's senior congressional correspondent dana bash who watched it all unfold live. dana the voters seem to tell us this time that president obama exceeded their expectations. >> certainly. because the expectations were not that high after two week's ago's debate. he came to play, mitt romney came to play and that's what made the evening so crackling with energy. you may think that debate in front of undeclared, persuadable voters would produce polite performances. >> production is down -- >> reporter: think again. at times, this town hall looked like a schoolyard brawl. >> not true, governor romney. >> so how much did you cut. >> not true. >> i had a question and the question was how much did you cut them by? >> you want me to answer a question. i'm happy to answer the question. >> reporter: if memorable debates are about moments one here was on libya. >> who was it that denied enhanced security, and why?

>> reporter: it was the question conservatives were waiting for. a chance to slam the president for lax security and changing stories on what prompted last month's deadly benghazi attack. >> there was no demonstration involved. it was a terrorist attack. but i think you have to ask yourself, why didn't we know five days later when the ambassador to the united nations went on tv to say this was a demonstration. how could we have not known? >> reporter: the president threw down the commander in chief card. >> the suggestion that anybody in my team, whether the secretary of state, our u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team, would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own, governor, is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president. that's not what i do as commander in chief. >> reporter: romney's offensive on national security did not go as planned. >> the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose

garden, and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened. that this was an act of terror. >> and the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the rose garden, and said that this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror? >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. so let me call it an act of terror. >> could you say that a little louder, candy? >> reporter: throughout this debate the president tried to make up for the first one. this time he used that 47% attack line. >> when he said behind closed doors that 47% of the country considers themselves victims, who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. >> reporter: and romney, who dominated the stage in the first debate, was going for a repeat performance. >> you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. and the answer is i don't

believe people think that's the case because i'm -- that wasn't a question. that was a statement. >> reporter: but an attempt to reach the critical female vote may have fallen flat. he answered a question about equal pay with a story about searching for women in his massachusetts cabinet. >> i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks? and they brought us whole binders full of women. >> reporter: within moments romney's binders had its own twitter handle. the president went after romney as a flip-flopper. >> governor when you were governor of massachusetts you stood in front of a coal plant and pointed at it and said, this plant kills. and took great pride in shutting it down. now suddenly you're a big champion of coal. >> reporter: romney prepared determined to use his reversed lines even when they were off topic. the question was on immigration but romney launched into a defense of his offshore investments with a practiced pivot against the president. >> any investments i've had over the last eight years have been managed by a blind trust and i understand they do include investments outside the united states, including in chinese

companies. mr. president, have you looked at your pension? have you looked at your pension? >> i've got to say -- >> mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> you know, i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours. so it doesn't -- >> reporter: there's so much talk about in this kind of format, there needs to be kind of distance, and you know, people don't want to feel uncomfortable seeing one candidate go after physically the other. but you just saw that mitt romney really, really charged the president. and the president a couple of times did the same thing. it was almost like they were two animals marking their turf all night. they were sort of circling each other. >> and likability is the key issue here. president obama has pretty much taken that all along. but you've got new numbers for us. >> that's right. in our cnn poll right after the debate, who was more likable. president obama 47%. mitt romney, 41%. now if you look kind of historically at the likability, particularly since the summertime when the president spent lots and lots of money trying to drive romney's

likability numbers down, maybe that's not that much of a surprise. but in this kind of debate, where they were really going at each other it's interesting to see the way people come away with the feeling about each candidate. >> we want to bring in ron brownstein the senior political analyst, editorial director for the national journal. ron has been with us all week. you set the bar pretty high for the president. you said he had a lot to do last night to make up for the first debate. did he do it? >> i think as much as he could have done in one night. i'm pretty much with the poll. i did not think it was as one-sided as the first debate in denver was for governor romney but i thought president obama accomplished more of what he needed to accomplish at the debate last night. it was really interesting to watch, especially in the first third of the debate. each of them trying to move the race into the frame they want voters to see it through. you saw governor romney really returning almost every question to the same argument, do the past four years, the result of the past four years justify another four years? and you saw the president from that very first answer where he got in the auto bailout and the bain capital experience, the very last answer where he talked

about the 47%, trying to move the race back into the frame that it was largely in before denver. which is whose side are you on? who is on your side? and i thought that as the evening went on, that the president, i thought, was clearly the aggressor. and it really helped him, guys, as the subjects moved beyond the economy and the deficit that dominated the first debate and new issues came in like immigration, contraception where i think governor romney created long-term problems for himself with his any and other issues of women's health. he was able to get to some of the concerns that activate his coalition. the president. >> you were talking about some of those moments and the president talking about his accomplishments. let's listen and talk about it. >> we've gone through a tough four years. there's no doubt about it. but four years ago, i told the american people, and i told you, i would cut taxes for middle-class families. and i did. i told you i'd cut taxes for small businesses, and i have. i said that i'd end the war in iraq. age i did. so the point is the commitments i've made, i've kept.

those that i haven't been able to keep, it's not for lack of trying and we're going to get it done in a second term. >> so there are a good number of promises that he has recapped. we talked about how obama needed to make the case for the next four years. look at this cnn post-debate poll. it's bad news for president obama. when asked if the candidates offer a clear plan, 61% said obama did not. >> once again that was the biggest weakness in his performance. he was much stronger in the first debate in defending his first four years and he was vastly, infinitely stronger in making the case against governor romney and his priorities. once again the weakest part, the hole in the doughnut, has been what would he do in a second term. there was much less specificity on that front. but there was more strength in arguing we don't want to go down governor romney's path. and you in that sense, being the key democratic constituents, with the focus on women. the focus on issues relating to hispanics, very important for him to activate the cornerstone elements of the modern

democratic coalition. >> one of the things that struck me last night, at the first debate, there weren't many moments that you hang around president obama. say that was an awful moment. last night there were a lot of clips that we've been playing all morning that really stick, in some cases not well, for mitt romney. >> i think the pension. that was a real contest. getting back to that framing that the obama campaign had put so much time and money into building this is someone who basically enriches the few at the expense of the many. he's kind of a rich guy who doesn't understand your life. the other issue that i think is going to be interesting, because clearly the obama campaign came in focused on this. planned parenthood, access to contraception. governor romney said i don't want to give employers control over workers' access to contraception. in fact he did support legislation by senator roy blunt, dana you covered, that would allow any employer, not just religiously based employers, to opt out of the requirement in the new health care law if it violates their moral precepts. so i want to -- i think we're

going to have to hear more today about how he's going to square support of that legislation with his unequivocal statement at the debate. >> it could feed into one of the two arguments that the president made last night. ironically they were trying to decide which one to make, flip-flopper or two conservative. he did both last night. this could potentially lead -- >> your poll numbers, that's the hole in the doughnut. what would he do in a second term to make people's lives better. that's been the weakest part of his presentation. he didn't fill it in vastly last night again. >> ron brownstein, thank you very much. dana bash we'll have you back, as well. >> we want to talk now about that explosive moment that came when they were discussing oil drilling and energy production. it set off really quite an exchange. we want to shed some light on it right now. mitt romney claimed that under president obama production on government land is down. >> prurkz on government land is down. >> no it isn't. >> production on government land is down 14%. and gas 9%. >> it's just not true.

>> it's absolutely true. >> so what are the facts here? the department of energy says production on federal lands dropped from about 2 million barrels per day in 2010 to 1.8 million a day in the last year available. they attribute that largely to the aftermath of the bp deep water horizon spill in the gulf. our verdict here on the 14% drop in the last available year is true, but it's a little misleading because it doesn't tell the whole story of oil production on federal land. listen to this, because of that oil the president made his own claims about production on federal land. we've opened up public lands. we're drilling more on public lands than in the previous administration. and the previous president was an oil man. >> even with that one-year drop in production we just told you about on federal land there has been more drilling per year during this administration than during the term the last term of george w. bush. so our verdict here on what president obama said is true. but what you really see here is how they cherry pick the facts

to make them work to their own advantage. >> absolutely. we continue to see that. it will be interesting to watch the final debate. one of the most talked about moments of the debate, the attack on the u.s. consulate on libya and what the administration said about it in the days after. what the candidates said, and a cnn fact check coming up. a hybrid? most are just no fun to drive. now, here's one that will make you feel alive. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid. c-max says ha.

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at meineke i have options... like oil changes starting at $19.95. my money. my choice. my meineke. good morning to you. welcome back to "early start." christine romans is fact checking the points made about the economy and also education in the debate last night. >> christine, romney brought up jobs last night. in talk about the tough job market for college graduates. >> he really blamed the president actually and the environment right now on the

president and his policies. it's something we've heard on the stump, it's something we heard last night. listen. >> with half of college kids graduating this year, without a college -- excuse me, without a job, and without a college level job, that's just unacceptable. >> so half of college kids graduating and they don't have a job. is that true? he's citing a rutgers university study that, indeed, finds that yes, half of 2012 college graduates did not have a job. this is true. these recent grads are having a really tough time, and in fact these recent grads are having a much tougher time than kids before them, and hopefully we hope after them. let me show you a little bit of what this rutgers university study found. 51% are employed full-time. 6% of these recent grads are working part-time or looking for full-time work. and 6% are working part-time and they're not looking for full-time work. some of them are going to go to college. they're going to go to, you know, go on to another degree and some of them simply are, you know, underutilized in the labor

market. look at this ploimt and education. he also said that a lot of the kids who are grad utding are getting a job. that's not even up to their skills. right? 50% of the kids have a job that requires a college education. but 43% of kids who are working, the job just doesn't even require a college education. so they've got all that student debt, a four-year degree, and, and they're not working a job that even requires that degree. so -- >> all right, christine romans, thank you very much for that. we've all been talking this morning about that benghazi moment in the debate last night, that really contentious moment between the president and mitt romney. the president claimed that the day after the attack on benghazi, on september 12th, he went to the rose garden and called it an act of terror. mitt romney said he did not. >> the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden, and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror. >> the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack he went in the rose garden and said that

this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack it was an act of terror? >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. so let me -- let me call it an act of terror -- >> could you say that a little louder, candy? >> you heard candy say it there. what are the facts here? let's listen to what the president said in the rose garden the day after the attack. no acts of terror will ever shake the result of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. today we mourn four more americans who represent the very best of the united states of america. we will not waiver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. >> now, you heard the words there, our verdict here is true, the president used the words act of terror. now was he talking about a specific act or as part of a number of acts? unclear. and the president in the days after did avoid using the word

terrorism when asked directly was this an act of terrorism. and it did take several weeks to determine whether this was the film or not the film that caused this uproar. but, mitt romney walked into it there. the president did use the words act of terror the day after the attack in the rose garden. >> yeah, it was the specific words, i guess, when you fact check that it is. i thought at the moment, terrorism, is this semantics right now we're listening to. >> the republicans have attacked president obama from day one on this saying he should have called it terrorism from the very, very beginning. and he did not say it as strongly as the republicans would have liked. >> all right. 20 minutes past the hour. coming up what the candidates told us without saying anything at all. our expert analyzes the many facial expressions of the debate. and what they could mean.

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so it was a hot night in long island for the second presidential debate. and like any heated exchange between president hopefuls there was a much more subtle game being played here. one where facial expressions and body language can say a lot more than the candidate's words. here to break down some of the interactions is facial coding expert and president of sensory logic dan hill. a lot of people are talking about the president last night. they're saying he came with a much more energized performance than he did in the first debate. is that something you noticed? >> absolutely. he came back from being emotionally dead. in the first debate he slept walked. you want to be not just having talking points and being on message. you want to have feeling points

and be an emotion to create the right emotion at the right time. last time he showed sadness. what is sadness? that i've given up hope. this time the only time he showed sadness was when he was talking about the gun debate and people in mass killings, then his eyes went down. then he kind of gave up for a moment. he showed empathy for the people suffering. that's the one time he showed sadness. otherwise he showed resolve and a lot more determination that he was going to fight for justice. that was the key. >> you notice things a lot of people don't notice at all. >> yes. >> when the president was asked about benghazi, the attacks on the consulate in benghazi. you saw something very specific. >> it was his high moment and low moment. when he started to answer the lips pulled wide. that's a show of fear. then he gulped and his inner eyebrows lifted. later on he started standing up saying i really care about this. it's reprehensible to imagine i'm not caring about people who died in the embassy. he really got angry. at the start he showed fear in the same way romney showed fear when the discussion moved to immigration.

>> you see it, we're focusing in on the gulp that many people may have missed there. that gulp to you screamed. >> absolutely. you take that, the inner eyebrows going up and the mouth pulling wide. boom, boom, boom. hit, hit, hit. definitely uneasy about that question. >> but pulled it together at the end. >> yes. then he was able to really get on message and say i do care about this issue. if you show emotion that says i care, and that's what he had to do in this debate. show that he was there. he was going to fight for the american people. he was going to fight for the country. >> so there were some space issues. >> yes, there was. >> both candidates getting into each other's business there. maybe mitt romney a little bit more. >> he was definitely coming in with a strategy he was going to crowd him a little bit. it's kind of like animals circling on their territory. there's a point where he really crowded obama. obama gave him back the glare. kind of like a cat that arches his back and says i'm going to fight you and then he pivoted and moved to the american public. he had to take the glare out of his eyes. obviously you don't want to be staring down and intimidating the american voter. but he did want to intimidate

romney. >> i don't know if romney noticed this but his back was turned to us a lot. >> i don't think he did the camera angles nearly as well as he wanted to. i know from my work looking at people's facial expressions for fortune 100. if you show the back of people's faces their emotional engagement view, their caring, empathy drops off dramatically. that was a mistake by romney. >> what did you notice in mitt romney when president obama was speaking? >> that he -- this time obama got under romney's skin. this time, particularly on taxes and the notion that you are part of the 1%, boom, boom, boom, lots of times in a row where the lips tightened, the eyebrows came down, you got the glare in the eye. and it was wasn't just for romney. the way i really knew that romney probably didn't win this debate was immediately afterwards. ann romney's face as soon as the debate was over, showed embitterment. and that is a nice contrast. because at the last debate just before it started michelle obama showed that she was like spooked. she didn't want to be there. the president didn't want to be there.

it almost was a harbinger of the fact that obama's going to lose the debate. this time i think ann romney in an unscripted moment right after the debate gave away the fact that this was not romney's best debate. >> i wish we could see that. what we did see was mitt romney standing behind president obama with that look that you were saying wasn't quite as comfortable as the first debate. >> not quite as comfortable. >> what about the president there? >> the president managed to come back with that electric smile. it's almost like he's a singer with an extra octave. he got back up to the big electric smile where it's not just around the mouth, it's around the eyes. the muscle around the eye relaxes. you get the twinkle in the eye. that's obama's secret card here. on romney's defense, i looked at romney for a long time. i call him the energizer bunny of social smiles. because a smile should go high and low and be over in like less than four seconds. often romney holds a smile, it's very fake. tonight, last night rather, he managed to go up at least a little bit. not a high octave but a more genuine, more reflective smile. and more discussed. a lot more variety from him than you typically see.

but he does not have that electric smile. >> you're going to have me timing my smiles right now. dan hill facial coding expert, president of sensory logic. that was a lot to digest. >> absolutely. >> zoraida? >> the next debate i want to watch with him so he can point all these things out. much different debate this time around. a sharper tone with a lot more tension. so who won? the results of our cnn poll and more highlights as well coming up. ross ] we are in the dades gorge, high up in the atlas mountains of morocco. have you seen this road we're going down? ♪ there is no relief for the brakes. we'll put them to the test today. all right, let's move out! [ ross ] we're pushing the ats brakes to the limit. going as fast as we can down the hill. we are making these sharp turns, slamming on the brembo brakes. [ derek ] it's like instant response, incredibly consistent. this is the challenge, machine vs. mountain. [ male announcer ] the all-new cadillac ats.

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but the last thing we should do is turn back now. president obama: i'm barack obama and... i approve this message. production on government lands -- >> production is up. >> is down. >> no it isn't. >> production on government land of oil is down 15% and gas down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> it's absolutely true. >> debate fireworks all sparked by a guess about gas prices. a question neither candidate actually answered. we'll have a reality check coming up. >> i went to a number of women's groups and said could you help us find folks and they brought us binders full of women.

>> binders. the big buzz word of this debate. we're talking about that with the team this morning. welcome back to "early start." we're happy you're with us. i'm zoraida sambolin. >> and i'm john berman. it is 32 minutes after the hour. two presidential debates down, one to go with president obama turning in a decidedly stronger performance against mitt romney during last night's town hall. the viewers, they seem to agree. cnn's post debate poll showing the president taking the top spot over mitt romney. 46% to 39%. now compare that with the first presidential debate, it's a much different story. that one had romney on top a whopping 67%, to 25%. >> and we're going to be bringing you up to the minute analysis all morning long and looking ahead to the third and final debate next week. which will be the candidate's last chance to make their cases to the american electorate. with us now are cnn contributor and republican strategist ana navarro. richard socarides, former senior aid adviser to president bill clinton and writer with the new

yorker.com, senior wrong nal correspondent dana bash and cnn contributor roland martin. we've got them all. all right so let's start with reaction. richard, reaction on president obama and how he did. >> well, i thought he had a terrific debate. i thought the debate overall was probably the most interesting debate i've ever seen in my lifetime. but i think the president made a strong case for why he deserves a second term. he presented clearly two contrasting visions for the country. i think when you looked at this, you could -- you could -- there was clear to anybody who was undecided going into this, i don't know if there's anybody undecided left, but if you're undecided going into this, i think it was clear who you'd want running the country and who has a better vision going forward. >> ana? >> still undecideds amongst us. i'm convinced the undecideds are going to be undecided until they've got to decide. i think it was a good night for mitt romney. it was a better night for president obama. and a large part of that was that he was being compared to president obama from the first debate, and he was incredibly much better. and also that the expectations on him were so very much lower.

so i think those two things benefited him tremendously. i think as we do most mornings post-bebait it's looking better and better for president obama. >> so let's talk about those expectations. because we actually have a poll here. 73% said that he did better than expected. 37% said the same of romney. obama back on top here. or has he just -- >> i hate it when i agree because it makes me feel so objective when i agree about what the poll results are. my partisanship is just, you know -- >> you folks talk about low expectations, high expectations. it drives me crazy. here are two folks running for office of the president. we should have extremely high expectations for both. >> this is just a comparison. >> i understand. but both sides love playing down, and nobody's going to go, well, i still believe last night was critically important for mitt romney. he needs to keep the momentum going. because, again, look at the map. he has to sweep a significant number of battleground states. the president i think was extremely effective at being

able to frankly stop the bleeding. that started with vice president joe biden. one of the first things last night was uh-oh looks like the president has the eye of the tiger. because he did not take on going right at mitt romney. he didn't ease into it. he didn't dance around. he understood he had to be on the attack early but do it in a respectful way. >> you know, right as it started, the first time mitt romney really went after the president physically, in a way that i mean especially i was in the room watching it, it made me kind of, you know, recoil a little bit because i wasn't really sure what was going to happen next. i got to -- i got a text from a republican strategist who is very much a romney supporter saying, uh-oh it looks like he drank what joe biden drank last week. was very nervous about it. because thought maybe he went over the top. turned out the president gave back a lot of that. but when it comes to the whole question of likability, mitt romney had a lot more to lose. >> i think president obama learned lessons from both his first debate. he was clearly more engaged.

clearly more responsive. he brought in his "a" game. but also i think he learned a lesson from joe biden. you didn't see any of the smirking, laughing, inappropriate reactions. he had a practiced look of, i'm listening intently and patiently, and i'm going to give it some serious thought. >> we asked people who they found more likable. they told us they found president obama more likable. i think the margin was 47% to 40%. oh, 41%. i was so close. you said something earlier i found interesting. as the analysis goes on, as we move through the morning and play back the clips and talk more about this, obama's victory in this debate becomes more clear. explain that to me. i wonder if you guys agree. >> for example, we've, in the last two hours, seen a lot of the clip of the binder of women. i gotta confess to you i must have been bound to the tv because i totally missed that remark. we're seeing more of, you know, we're seeing the clip of the benghazi answer, which was one that i think benefited president obama. we're seeing some of obama's

funny lines. obama had his swagger back yesterday. he was funny. he was on his game. and he clearly got under governor romney's skin. and i think the clips that we're seeing over and over again showed that. >> one clip that's huge, when mitt romney says i'm sorry, you'll get your opportunity. and also that wasn't a question. even though it is a debate. you're still talking to the president of the united states. i've been looking at some of the other networks, other shows, reading different stories and that also speaks volumes when people say, you might be right, mr. president, but you still respect the office of president. and when it's played a lot -- >> but the flip side of that is, talking about undecided voters, how few there are. mitt romney standing up to the president like that, i mean, what excites the base more than that? >> yes, but -- >> it's a base election. >> i don't traditionally agree with roland and it worries me when i do. >> you know you love it. >> i actually thought -- i remember mitt romney doing the

same thing with rick perry during the republican primary saying, you know, rick, rick, it's my turn. it's my turn. and i don't think that played well. i don't think it played well this time. >> i think you're going to like this next clip. ana talked about it. it was a clip of the binder moment and women. let's play that. >> i said well gosh, can't we -- can't we find some women that are also qualified? and so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks and they brought us binders full of women. >> richard? binders full of women? >> what it demonstrates here and why these debates are important because they're a window into what people are really thinking and how they operate. here's a situation where, you know, it should have been readily apparent to anyone that there were plenty of qualified women but they had to make this special effort. you know, here's governor romney trying to make the case for himself that he's for hiring women, but in doing so, he demonstrates that he's living in

another world. i mean, you know, qualified women should be apparent to everyone and why he has to go out and make this special effort to find women, you know, he's trying to make the case -- >> that wasn't even the question. >> the question was -- >> the president was stronger on this segment but i still think i missed an opportunity. had he turned to mitt romney and said mitt, can you answer the question, finally, would you have signed the lily ledbetter act it would have put him on the spot because he's frankly danced around it. when you're talking about white women, working-class voters, mitt romney's been leading with them. the president's been leading with women of higher education. that is a critical issue when you talk about should you get paid the same amount as men? >> i'm going to just add one thing here. you're a massachusetts boy, you know massachusetts politics. especially covering congress, the one thing i will say is, there are not a lot of traditionally women politicians in the state of massachusetts. there have been, you know, lieutenant governor was a woman. i know, but by and large, you

know -- >> that's an excellent point. because i thought show me the binder full of women and show me if you paid them the same amount of money if you pay men. >> i've been in transition, you know, i've been in transition government and it is not an uncommon thing to get binders full of candidates. >> binders -- >> we're talking about binders. >> binders -- >> that show that say this is a binder full of qualified women. >> yeah, we have a binder full of -- >> we're now bound by time. that's going to have to be our last word here. >> way to go. >> dana bash, roland, richard socarides in the clock that's beating down on us. >> you said that very well because you had very little sleep. >> so do i. so do i. all right. 41 minutes past the hour. we hear it all the time. our next president needs to do something about the high price of gas. but can either one of them really do that? christine romans with the

reality check coming up. but can either one of them

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all the way from the debate site at long island, soledad o'brien now joins us live. >> drove in from the island around midnight last night. lots going on this morning. the fiery presidential rematch. president obama, mitt romney came out swinging during that debate on long island, tackling everything from libya to taxes to immigration to gun control. we're going to check the facts this morning. debate moderator candy crowley is going to join us. senior romney campaign adviser john sununu is our guest. senior campaign adviser robert gibbs will be joining us. maryland governor martin o'malley and wisconsin senator ron johnson is going to be talking with us as well.

i ran into him last night as we were being carted around on golf carts. numbers are climbing in the meningitis outbreak. we'll have details about the case straight ahead this morning. and ty pennington, remembering the rnc and the dnc they were building half of a house. they were going to bring the halves together and awarding it to a deserving military family? they have picked the family. we're going to talk to ty and talk to the family now walking away with a really beautiful house because the halves are now put to the. >> bipartisan home. >> the bipartisan home. it might be the only thing that is bipartisan today. >> all right. thank you soledad. 46 minutes past the hour. gas prices are high and many voters want to know what president obama or president romney, potential president, plan to do about it. >> candy crowley asked go this repeatedly last night. right, christine? >> we counted four times where she specifically said about gas prices, gas prices. and the president, and this is what she got in return. >> in the last four years you cut permits and licenses on

federal land and federal waters in half. >> not true, governor romney. >> so how much did you cut it? >> not true. >> how much did you cut it then? >> governor we have actually produced more oil. >> how much did you cut licenses and permits on federal land and federal waters? >> governor romney, here's what we did. there were a whole bunch of oil companies. -- >> i had a question. >> you want me to answer. i'm happy to answer the question. >> she got a fist fight about drilling and drilling permits, of course, and each candidate there, different numbers about drilling. but the question was, should the government be trying to manage gas prices? here's the facts. when you look back at what gas prices have done over this presidency you can see that they were much, much lower when the president took office. why? because we were in the middle of a financial crisis. trucks were off the road. we were using less gasoline because the economy was not growing as strongly. and they've been going up in part because the economy has been recovering. i will say that both of these candidates made no specific promise on gas prices. and i would say they were wise to do that.

because presidents can't really control the price of gas. there are things they can do like drilling permits and things like that. macro policy that takes a long time to play out about energy. they can tap the strategic petroleum reserve. but they can't control day-to-day gas prices. sometimes on the campaign they're making promises, they were wise to avoid making those kinds of promises. because presidents really can't control what you pay at the gas pump day to day. >> christine romans, thanks very much. >> and our cnn poll said the president topped mitt romney in last night's debate. what does the gop have to say about that? we're talking to republican congressman marsha black burn tennessee. that's coming up. ♪ keys, keys, keys, keys, keys. ♪ well, he's not very handsome ♪ to look at [ sighs ] ♪ oh, he's shaggy

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welcome back. 51 minutes past the hour. a much more fiery meeting the second time around for president barack obama and republican challenger mitt romney. the two mixed it up several times during last night's debate. and unlike the first time, most people who watch believe the president won. our cnn snap poll shows president obama came out on top, 46% to 39%. so let's bring in republican congresswoman marsha blackburn of tennessee. she's a romney is your gatt. very nice to have you with us this morning. i just mentioned right now that the polls show that president obama won. what's your reaction to that? >> i think that there are going to be many polls that show that romney won or president obama won. the important thing was the american people got to see a good, solid debate. i think mitt romney won the debate. and here's -- >> why? >> because he laid out where he would move going forward. he looked at the past for lessons learned. but then he laid out an agenda. president obama still did not lay out an agenda for the next

four years. so, i think that's one of the things that people were looking for, and i was very pleased with what governor romney had to offer. >> there's something that's getting a lot of traction on the internet. romney spoke about finding women for his cabinet in massachusetts. >> yes. >> this moment went viral. let's listen. >> i said well gosh, can't we kind some women that are also qualified? and so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said can you help us find folks? and they brought us whole binders full of women. >> binders full of women. social media seized on that moment and it's not a very flattering way. what do you make of mitt romney's -- >> that my not have been. my choice of words are your choice of words. the point is this, he made a concerted effort to find qualified women who wanted to

submit, wanted to submit their resumes and were looking for that opportunity. you know so many times, women may not be the next in line but they are the most qualified for the job. and many times, instead of forcing their way in to a conversation, a woman is going to wait to be invited. to apply for something. and i think that's a very important distinction. he thought to open the door for women and then his cabinet had more women than any other gubernatorial cabinet in the country. >> here's what i find interesting about that. that really wasn't the question that was asked of him. that answer was in response to a question about equal pay for women. it's the lily ledbetter fair act pay. he never answered that question. here's how obama reacted to it. >> when governor romney's campaign was asked about the lily ledbetter bill, whether he's for it, he said i'll get back to you. and that's not the kind of advocacy that women need in any economy. >> so the big question here is,

would mitt romney sign a bill that guarantees equal pay to women. he never answered that question. >> well, and the point,what you want to do is have equal opportunity so that women can even earn more. women are now more than 50% of the workforce. women are many times the breadwinner of their family, and what you want to do is to make certain that when it comes to access to capital, small business women, when it comes to wage stagnation, that you remove that, and that women can perform on their own and on their strengths and be compensated in an appropriate way. you're not going to address that situation through legislation. what you're going to do is to address that situation through re-education and through opportunity and opening those doors. >> i think a lot of people would have really liked to have gotten

a very clear answer on that issue last night. but we appreciate you coming in this morning for us, congresswoman marsha blackburn of tennessee. we're going to take a quick break. [music: artist: willy moon song: "yeah yeah" label: universal] ♪ everybody well don't you know it's me now? ♪ ♪ yeah who's it, who's it huh? ♪ ♪ willy's back with a brand new beat now, ♪ ♪ yeah doin' it doin' it up! ♪ heyyy yeah, tryin' to bite my style! ♪ ♪ heyyy yeah, how you like me now? ♪

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whew. that is all for a jam-packed post-debate "early start." i'm john berman. >> and i'm zoraida sambolin. "starting point" with soledad o'brien starts right now. welcome, everybody. our starting point this morning the fiery rematch. president obama, mitt romney facing off in their second debate. and the sparks flew. >> governor romney says he has a five-point plan. he doesn't have a