and "starting point" begins right now. morning, welcome everybody. our "starting point" this morning. a few moments of civility in the race for the white house. president obama and mitt romney all smiles last night at the annual al smith charity dinner, which took place in new york. both managed to get in a few zingers, as well. most of them tame. some of them a little bit edgy. listen. >> as president obama surveys the waldorf banquet room, with everyone in white tie and finery, you have to wonder what he's thinking. so little time, so much to redistribute. >> after my foreign trip in 2008 i was attacked as a celebrity because i was so popular with our allies overseas. and i have to say i'm impressed with how well governor romney has avoided that problem. >> the dinner came just two days after that tense debate between the president and mr. romney.

he'll face off again in a debate on monday. that presidential debate will focus on foreign policy. coming up this morning going to talk more about that dinner, also talk about some brand-new polling that's out. we'll speak with congressman randy forbes. also former governors ted strickland and george pataki, as well. first, though want to get right to john berman for a look at the stories making news this morning. >> good morning. we start with some good news. she was shot in the head by the taliban because she fought for women's rights. this morning there is brand-new information on the condition of 14-year-old malala yousafzai. it is promising news. doctors in the uk say the pakistani teen has been able to stand up and is communicating freely. she's writing, not talking yet, but she has -- because she has a tracheotomy tube inserted. doctors say the bullet grazed her brain, and there is some physical damage. she's also being treated for an infection. a libyan militia leader who is the suspected ring leader behind the deadly attack in benghazi is basically thumbing his nose at american and libyan

investigator. ahmed abu khattala and despite reports he is in hiding he socialized with journalists last night at a hotel in benghazi. he told writers he was present during the consulate incident out of curiosity but was not responsible for the attack. and he did not appear concerned that the u.s. and libyan authorities may be trailing him. decades of boy scout documents previously confidential are now public record. the so-called perversion files detail thousands of cases of alleged sexual abuse by more than 1200 scout leaders and volunteers. the files cover a 20-year period from 1965 to 1985. the head of the boy scouts of america is expressing his regrets. >> there's no question that there are times in the past that these go back to 40, 50 years old, where we did not do the job that we should have. and for that, and for people -- and for that we're profoundly sorry. and i am convinced that this organization has a firm and ever-lasting deep commitment to youth protection. >> today the scouts require background checks on all volunteers.

federal health officials say a batch of steroids was definitely tainted with a deadly fungus. now this is a first official confirmation linking the back pain shots with a deadly meningitis outbreak. it's left 20 people dead and infected more than 250 people in 16 states. the fda is testing two more batches of the drug now. the contaminated vials came from a company outside boston. about 14,000 patients could have been exposed. the detroit tigers punching their ticket to the world series with a clean sweep of the new york yankees. that means the yankees did not win a single game. the tigers pounded the yanks 8-1 in the fourth and final game of the american league championship league season. this is their second american league pennant in just six years. the cardinals are in the drivers seat. they took a 3-1 lead over the san francisco giants. they had an 8-3 victory last night in st. louis. the red birds can wrap it up with a win tonight in game five. going to be a rematch of the 2006 world series if the cardinals win. >> all right, john thank you very much. let's get right back to our

starting point. it is the closest thing, i guess, that we have seen to a truce during this entire campaign. president barack obama and mitt romney were joking around at the al smith charity dinner last night in new york. listen. >> in the spirit of sesame street the president's remarks tonight are brought to you by the letter "o" and the number 16 trillion. >> the unemployment rate is at its lowest level since i took office. i don't have a joke here. i just thought it would be useful to remind everybody. >> let's get right to republican congressman randy forbes from virginia. he's a romney campaign surrogate. it's nice to see you, sir. thank you for talking with us. they were pretty funny, i thought, both of them last night. and, and, and yet there was some tension in that, as well, and certainly as we head into monday's debate we'll go back to being pretty much all tense and less, less funny. did you, what did you think of that, that dinner last night and what are your predictions as we look forward to monday? >> well, soledad, i thought the dinner was great. i think america's ready to have

some humor after all these political attack ads we've seen throughout this season. i thought both men did a great job. i think one of the interesting things, people are beginning to see the real mitt romney. and they're seeing him as really a self-less, humble, funny kind of guy who's just a talented individual and i thought last night we saw both men do a great job. >> i thought he's actually been very funny when he kind of joked about his wealth. other times we've seen in this campaign, he gets very nervous and stumbles when he's talking about his wealth. so i thought that was a good turn of events for him. let's talk about some polling. nbc news poll out of iowa, nbc news/"wall street journal"/marist poll shows that president obama has 51% of likely iowa voters. mitt romney at 43%. if you look at a similar poll of likely wisconsin voters, in wisconsin, same nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll, president obama 51%, mitt romney at 45%. when you see those numbers, that's, that's not good news for your candidate in two important states.

>> well, soledad, what is good news is when you look at the rest of the polling, you think those two, first of all it's a shocker that wisconsin is even in play. we looked at polling last night for pennsylvania is becoming in play. we looked at polling last night that showed that governor romney is moving ahead in the national poll. almost 7%. according to the gallup poll. and one of the things, soledad, that i measure by is not even just the polling, although our polling we think looks really good. but the size of the turnout of these crowds when the governor's coming to virginia. i've never seen crowds like this or enthusiasm like this so we're excited about the direction this is going. i just hope it continues to move in this direction. >> there are some analysis that says and nbc points this out, they say, the reason those polls matter is not a big change from back in september when they did these polls last but they say, if you look at iowa, and you look at wisconsin, if you can win both of those states, and you can win ohio, you can wrap it up. and if you look at how the president's polling in ohio, i

have a predebate poll let's throw that, that's a cnn/orc poll the president is at 51%, mitt romney at 47%. now the standard deviation there is just under 4%. so it really is very, very close. but again analysis say if they could raise that number he could just win this. you don't agree with that? >> well, soledad, i will just tell you if you look at some of the other polling, even last night, it is exciting for what we're seeing. we love the momentum and the way this thing is going. and i think we're in very, very good shape. i think if you look at those swing states, if you look at the national momentum, it's going governor romney's way. i think it's going to continue to go that way. i think we're looking for a big night in november, and i think the governor feels the same way. >> how do you think it's going with women? i know the big focus certainly after the binders of women comment has been to really start conversations with women for, for both candidates, frankly, again, back to the polls, in iowa, for female voters,

president obama holds a decent lead there. look at wisconsin, this is the nbc/"wall street journal"/marist poll. a big lead against wisconsin female voters. yesterday i was talking to governor mcdonald. i neglected to say women talking about the virginia numbers. obama 56%, romney at 40%. that's a big gap there as well. how do you close that gap with women in those really critical states when we have what is it 18 days, 18 days left in, in this campaign? how do you do that? >> soledad, it's closing. and let me tell you why it's closing. it's because women just like other voters are starting to realize this president has had as many advantages as any president in history. no president in history has ever add a billion dollars to attack his opponent or get his message out. this president has. very few presidents have complete control of congress in terms of the house of representatives, the senate and the white house. this president has. and certainly, no president has ever had the support of a media like this president has. and yet when all of the smoke clears, after all of that, women

are seeing what other voters are seeing right now. this is policies have just failed. and they're having to make a choice. do we want four more years of these failed policies where their children are graduating and half of them aren't getting jobs? or do we want mitt romney, paul ryan to come in and have an opportunity to turn this around. and the women we're seeing, the women we're talking to, they're excited about mitt romney. they're moving to mitt romney. i think the country does. that's why i think we're going to have a good night on november 6th. >> the president has had all those advantages that you've listed. but of course he also had a big, giant recession that you didn't put on that list to deal with as well. let's talk about libya for a moment -- >> one of the things we took as the president's words and what he said he was going to do and what he did do, even the democratic strategists now won't defend the fact that these policies aren't working. the only thing they can say is, oh, it wasn't his fault or oh, mitt romney is not going to be able to turn it around. but one of the things americans seem like we talked about last night is the mitt romney they've seen on these commercials is not

the true mitt romney. he's one of the most selfless, humble, talented leaders we've had in decades. i think that's what's moving women towards him and other voters. i think that's why he's going to do well in this election. >> 19 days, if we're just seeing, in your words, the true mitt romney, you know, that was last night, it was 19 days before the election. that seems like really running it down to the wire to start sort of seeing, you know, the real mitt romney. >> no, no. you have to understand, though, soledad, one of the things that you have to recognize, no man in the history of this planet has had more dollars spent against him attacking him personally than mitt romney. the media, i think, we'd all agree, has done a pretty strong job on attacking mitt romney. trying to support the president. but what has happened is- >> so i'll jump in -- >> america has seen the true -- >> i don't think we'd all agree. i disagree. >> yeah, i think most people would agree. and i think, soledad, one of the things that people have seen in these debates is the true mitt romney.

that's what's turned these numbers around and that's what's moving people strongly towards mitt romney. that's what we think is going to help win the day on november 6th. >> congressman randy forbes i'd love to chat with you about libya. maybe we'll get a chance to do it around the next debate which is going to be around foreign policy. thank you for talking with us. >> thank you, soledad. the third and last presidential debate, as i mentioned, is going to be next week and cnn's live coverage from boca raton in florida begins on monday night at 7:00 p.m. eastern. we'll be part of that coverage. still ahead this morning on "starting point," congressman joe walsh, might be regretting what he had said, controversy surrounding his suggestion that women no longer die in childbirth because of modern technology. don't need to make an exception for life of a mother for abortion because no one's dying in childbirth anymore is what he says. it's our get real this morning. we'll talk about that. and then some terrifying moments for a store clerk caught on camera, as this masked man, he's chasing her around with a gun. now police are asking for help

trying to identify the guy. christine what's business look like this morning? >> the jobs market, the spike in unemployment claims means for the economic recovery and what's really happening with jobs. you're watching "starting point." jack, you're a little boring. boring. boring. [ jack ] after lauren broke up with me, i went to the citi private pass page and decided to be...not boring. that's how i met marilyn... giada... really good. yes! [ jack ] ...and alicia. ♪ this girl is on fire [ male announcer ] use any citi® card to get the benefits of private pass. more concerts. more events. more experiences. [ jack ] hey, who's boring now? [ male announcer ] get more access with a citi card. [ crowd cheering, mouse clicks ]

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welcome back to "starting point." i'm christine romans minding your business. u.s. stock futures are trading lower and markets closed lower yesterday. one reason, surprising quarterly earnings from google. the surprise, not only were they weaker than expected, but they came out early by mistake. even with a little spot that said pending larry quote. the stock lost 8% on the day. and you can stash more pretax money in your 401(k) next year.

the irs raising the contribution limit to $17,500. it did this last year and the year before. plus it's raising the bar for gifts next year. 14 grand up from $13,000. the catch-up contribution limit for people over 50 remains unchanged by the way at $5,500. soledad? >> that's great news. really got to get people to do it now. >> you know, it's because of inflation quite frankly and because people have to catch up, you know, because of the financial crisis. ali, you can give me money tax free this year. $14,000 if you like. >> sweet. >> if you're just handing out money, me, too. and i see john trying to get in. let's talk a little bit about some of these, this jobless claims that we've been talking about. those numbers have been like a roller coaster. oh, my gosh the chart behind your head is like this. >> yeah. >> the labor department yesterday reported a spike in first-time unemployment claims last week jumping to 388,000 up 46,000. christine was reporting this for us yesterday. week before had been the lowers number in four years. >> right.

>> 18 days till the election. so obviously everyone hops on this and analyzes this. what, what do you see in these trends? >> well, this is a great conversation because we're two weeks away from the last jobs report. and we're two weeks away from the one right before the election. christine and i wanted to break down the way we look at unemployment. it's not just the inemployment rate. it's the number you just stated which is the initial jobless claims. every week we get a number on thursdays about the number of people who got into the unemployment line on line -- >> and that chart is a trend going back to 2007. to the trend is the most important thing to look at. the trend has been going down. >> what we saw yesterday was 46,000 more people filed for unemployment claims last week than the week before. but, so we're at about 388,000. you always want that below 400,000. that's one way of looking at it. and it's a weekly number. forget that for a second. here's the one that causes all the controversy. it is the unemployment rate which as you know is 7.8%. down three bases points from the last time. and that's the one that everybody says hey, is this

rate? the problem with this is it measures a moving total. so what christine and i also look at, there's another number and it's called the employment population ratio. >> this is important because when you hear somebody say, look, you've got 8% unemployment. that means 92% of the country is working. that's not true. >> right. >> 92% of the country is not working. 92.2% of the country is not working. this is the percent of the adult working-age population who actually has a job and it's 58% and changed. and it hasn't been moving for three years. >> what that means, 58.7% of the working population is working. 5% are technically unemployed. another 3% are unemployed but haven't looked for a job in four weeks. you fall off the ropes, you're not considered unemployed. 41% of these workers are out of work. so 41% of people are not looking for a job and they're not employed. and when you break that number down you find a lot of them are seniors, a lot of them are students. so they could work -- >> each bracket --

>> they tend not to work. what you get left with is a lump of about 27 million people who we don't know why they're not working. they could be stay at home moms. they could be -- >> rich. >> rich. they could be day traders. they could have health issues that cause them to stay at home. christine likes to point out that a lot of people incarcerated. you know. so, there are a lot of reasons why there are people not working. now that number, that 50 -- what did i say, 58.7? that's actually been relatively stable over the last few years. it's been declining over the long term, so a smaller percentage of the population over the last ten years has actually been working. >> what was that number roughly like 20 years ago? >> the lowest since 1981. so you've got to go back to the '80s. during the 90s when we grew 24 million jobs over the '90s. this number got bigger and big ir. as the economy grew and there were more opportunities more people were part of the labor market, were part of, and we've just been seeing this decline of opportunities not in the past four months, four weeks or four years. but really since really since

i'd say the end of the '90s. >> you also have this age bubble. retiring baby boomers. >> absolutely. >> nontraditional workers. an artisto a poet who doesn't want to hold a traditional job but there sell their work piecemeal. they all fall into this. this is a trend number. a bigger number. certainly makes it look worse than the unemployment number. if only 5.7 of the working age population is working. but christine brought up an example of some countries in the middle east for instance, saudi arabia, where if you use this population it's a very different number because women don't work. so you have to consider that there are large portions of the population that are just not looking for work, or unable to get work or are working -- >> -- that math is 47%? >> not necessarily. because there are some people who are working but their wages are so low that they're still net government recipients as opposed to net contributors. if you work and don't earn enough money. >> i think a lot of people in this country take for granted the safety net in the united states. this is one of the rare countries in the world where you

can have only 58% of your population actually works, and, and still have a middle class, and still, you know, be the largest economy in the world. you know. >> all right. well thank you for the update. thank you for walking us through and explaining it. very, very helpful. still ahead this morning on "starting point," a new abortion controversy for a republican candidate. this time it's congressman joe walsh who's suggesting that women just don't die in childbirth anymore because of the technological advances. he'd be wrong. it's our get real. our "starting point" team heading in to talk about that and much more. i was in the ambulance and i was told to call my next of kin. at 33 years old, i was having a heart attack. now i'm on a bayer aspirin regimen. [ male announcer ] be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

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welcome back, everybody.

you're watching "starting point." our team this morning, charles blow is a "new york times" columnist joining us. richard socarides with us, a writer for thenewyorker.com. will cain. we've got john berman to stick around. our get real. honestly, this is kind of making me mad. i got to tell you. outrage, will cain, outraged. >> thank you. >> it's friday. >> a little dig there. >> will you hit him for me? >> that's not a very -- >> sometimes when you're not here they let me sit in your chair. >> outraged. now i'm outraged. >> again. will cain, again. in chicago, republican incumbent congressman joe walsh, he's an opponent of abortion, is under fire for suggesting that women no longer die in childbirth. that a televised debate last night against democrat tammy duckworth, walsh said there is no such thing as an exception for the life of a mother, when he was pressed afterwards by reporters, he said this -- >> this is an issue that

opponents of life throw out there to make us look unreasonable. there's no such exception as life of the mother, and as far as health of the mother, same thing. with advances in science and technology, there's -- health of the mother has been -- has become a tool for abortions for any team of any reason. >> it's become a tool. >> well. >> well -- >> a tool somewhere. >> so, you would be wrong, mr. walsh. you would be very wrong. so let's go through some of the numbers. the report in obstetrics and gynecology, 7,500 women in the u.s. died of pregnancy related complications over their 14-year period. for every 100,000 babies born to white women, 7 to 9 moms die from complications, like heart problems, infections, bleeding. 32 to 35 black women die for every 100,000 live babies. he's just wrong. he's just completely wrong. the number for asians, i should

say is about 10 for 100,000. >> well, kind of the surprising thing about this, right, is that we were just through this with mr. akin the other candidate, republican candidate for the congress, who used that term legitimate rape. perhaps the only thing that isn't as bad about this than the other thing is that he didn't use the term legitimate rape. >> you and i were just talking. we were just talking, we said there are going to be try to be parallels made to the akin comment and they're not the same thing. you made the very good point because akin put two words together that should never be near each other, legitimate and rape. i think your last statement soledad is the judgment in the end on joe walsh's statement. it's just wrong. >> but they do have the technology -- akin had that claim that biologically speaking somehow women don't get pregnant if they're raped by some biological magic. >> he had to admit to being wrong -- with joe walsh he's just wrong. >> there's a broader context here which is that these are not

so isolated. the idea that conservatives keep trying to pull science into the abortion, pro-life discussion, as if it is on their side in these kinds of ways. even paul ryan, who didn't go deep on this, but during the vice presidential debate basically said i'm not just pro-life because of religious reasons. i'm pro-life because of logic, and science, it's on my side. and i was waiting for them to press a little bit to say, please explain to us -- please explain to us -- >> -- logic. >> i'm talking about the scientific part of it. this is another case in which conservatives have basically said that science is telling us that the -- that -- that childbirth has advanced to the point where this is not an issue and you cannot make a pro-choice exception because of science. that is just a problem. >> it's like this do not aid my argument. however, technology, if it's

tied to morality, and i do not believe it is, is certainly moving in my direction. >> i'm not even sure what that means. but we don't have time. we can read -- >> that's going to take a 30-minute show which i'm happy to take. you in? >> i'm in. yeah, yeah. say yes, let's do it. not on this show. but definitely in general, yeah. i think that's fascinating. absolutely. but we doesn't have 30 minutes this morning. >> -- enveloped in emotion not to have a logical conversation -- >> yes, will cain. and sanjay will be accepting on behalf of sanjay. we should talk about that. but he's just wrong and i feel like you can't have children or you don't have an m.d. next to your name you should not be commenting on science and pregnancy or abortion. moving ahead -- >> especially if you're running for congress. >> ahead this morning on "starting point," remember this guy, famously quit goldman sachs. he had that really the most scathing public resignation letter ever in the history of forever. new investigation, though, shows there might be more to this story. we're going to talk about that. the journalists who broke that

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morning. welcome back, everybody. you're watching "starting point." we're going to start with john berman for a look at the day's top stories. we could find out today whether trayvon martin school, facebook and phone records could be released. they're also expected to ask for more time to build their case. zimmerman claims he shot and killed in self-defense. he has pleaded not guilty to second degree murder charges. zimmerman's lawyer says the trial will begin june 10th. in new york, a federal appeals court has struck down the defense of marriage act which denies federal benefits to same sex married couples. it's the nation's second court to do so. the court ruled in favor of an 83 year lesbian widow. she sued the government when she was denied spousal deductions

but was charged hundreds of thousands of dollars in estate taxes. a big victory for a texas high school cheerleading squad. a judge temporarily ruled they can continue to carry banners that display christian bible verses at football games. there will be a trial date next june. the local school district banned the banners after someone complained, but the cheerleaders sued claiming their free speech rights were being violated. in the next hour we're going to hear from one of the cheerleaders, her mother, and their lawyer. check out this frightening scene in portland, maine. a store clerk jumps over a wall, runs for her life. the man chasing her is wearing a mask and holding a gun in his right hand. the store surveillance system recorded this whole thing. luckily the clerk is not hurt. however police are still searching for the gunman. soledad? >> that is amazing. huh? wow. that's incredible. good for her. this morning some new details, anybody else hearing something in their ear? weird. okay. new details about the man who

stormed out of goldman sachs. remember his letter? it was the most over the top, angry, blistering resignation letter in the history of forever. it was plastered across pages of "the new york times." the man's name is greg smith. his resignation letter was literally an op-ed and called why i am leaving goldman sachs. he wrote this, in part, the interests of the client continue to be sidelined in the way the form operates and thinks about making money. the firm has veered so far from the place i joined right out of college that i can no longer in good conscience say i identify with what it stands for. now goldman sachs is firing back. they've done an internal investigation of smith, bloomberg tv got an exclusive look and the co-hosts of bloomberg tv's market makers airs weekdays from 10:00 to noon. eric's also an editor at large at bloomberg tv. it's nice to have you both with us. >> thank you. >> so this investigation, you guys got access to it. how did you get it? >> well, let's be honest. this stuff came from goldman sachs. think about it from goldman

sachs' perspective. the firm was blindsided. this never happens on wall street. people resign all the time. 3% and 5% of goldman's employees leave of their own accord, in other words not fired, every year. none of them write an op-ed in "the new york times." disavowing more or less everything that they did at the firm, discrediting the firm. in a most public fashion possible. perhaps no surprise that goldman wanted to tell a bit of its side of the story and shared with us some internal documents, the conclusions, the results of an internal investigation into smith's claims. >> from their perspective speak to who greg smith was, in goldman sachs' eyes. obviously when we all read the letter it speaks to why he felt that goldman sachs changed so much. why he wanted to leave the organization. but we had the opportunity to read both his evaluations from managers, self-evaluations -- >> internal e-mails. >> and then -- >> was it an inkwirly that was done with people in the firm or

did they bring in an outside -- >> they brought in some forensic specialists to troll through the e-mails, to listen to taped conversations. this being wall street. a lot of what you do is taped. to find out if they missed anything. because, if you read greg smith's op-ed, and you're sitting in lloyd blankfein's chair, the chairman and ceo of the organization, you're asking yourself, how did this happen? this is supposed to be a firm that manages risks well. that risk wasn't well managed. >> but also was it endemic? greg smith is this a one-off? every company has disgruntled employees. we spoke to senior management who said following this letter they received calls from countless fortune 500 ceos that said, this could have happened to any of us. so goldman said we need to take this seriously, spending millions of dollars, thousands of hours, investigating. >> part of the report details his request for a big, giant raise, an increase in his, his bonus, and an internal emrail mads this, greg smith off the charts unrealistic, thinks he

should trade at multiple. we told them there's "v," i guess for very, little tolerance for reaction like that and he needs to tone it down. >> this is what is so important. because, again, when you read greg smith's letter, it very much sounds as though, and he may be taking a moral high ground, the industry has changed so much, i simply don't want to be a part of it anymore. yet, if you look at the internal reports, remember, this is 2011. where greg smith is looking to get paid more than double than he had been paid the year before in a year when goldman sachs had laid off 10% of their employees and the rest of the industry had laid off even more and everyone was getting paid down. >> such a grandizing investment banker, i'm stunned? >> you do go in and ask for a raise, that's one thing. >> questions -- >> it's a question of motive. right when you read greg smith's op-ed you come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with goldman sachs. and he has developed such a -- >> -- that he had to do it.

then when you read the internal report that goldman sachs prepared for its own board, and for regulators who had questions. you mind find yourself coming to a different conclusion, because the man appears to have been quite frustrated about the fact that he didn't get the promotion to managing director that he was looking for. >> which he was running for three consecutive years and was passed over -- >> the report says he was routinely rated in the bottom half of employees and would routinely overrate himself compared to how his bosses did but but at the same time they had major layoffs at golgdman, right? he wasn't among the layoffs. he was not someone who was going to be fired. >> we spoke to managers, people in the firm who said greg smith was a very smart guy. but he wasn't necessarily an all-star player. he was your goldman sachs' training program twelve years ago and i can tell you from the investment banking community it is the premiere training program. the most coveted jobs. clearly a very smart guy. but over the course of the next twelve years he had to watch many of his peers go on to

become managing directors. >> -- key point. it's really about goldman sachs and less about greg smith. we're talking about greg's motives, about what his record is like. but greg smith in that op-ed was making a larger point. he was making the point the culture had changed on wall street, specifically a change at goldman sachs. you guys, bloomberg, cover this all the time. is his larger point faults? >> what really changed? we all know goldman sachs and the industry, this is the deep end of the pool, the big boy's club. it was a big boy's club in 1988, 1998. >> there were people who said between 1988 and today goldman sachs culture has changed so i think you're exactly right the question is -- >> -- he may be a jerk. he may think he's worth too much money. there's no way he's qualified to be a managing director and no one in their right mind would give him that job but is he right? >> i've heard it from other former goldman employees who say that it became a firm that they didn't enjoy working at. but remember there's still 30,000 other people at goldman sachs who say, many of whom have been there for decades, who say

it is very much the firm that they worked at. what you can't deny is that goldman sachs is all about making money. making money for the firm. making money for yourself. and if you -- >> and if you're -- i mean really -- >> taking something else -- >> that's not true. a lot of what he said in his book and i know you got some of it there -- >> everyone's reading the first chapter. >> his point was part of his point in his scathing letter was they're not serving their clients. so it's not only about making money for yourself. and it's not only about making money for your firm. it's about are we serving the clients the way we used to serve the clients? and he says, no. now he may have a million reasons why he left. >> that's the question. did he leave because they weren't serving their clients and they weren't putting them number one? or did he leave because he didn't like how he was getting paid? >> or both. >> if greg smith -- >> we're going to sit down and ask im. >> all look forward to asking greg -- having the other side, the argument from greg. we really don't know it yet.

>> thank you guys for coming in to talk about it. i think this is such an interesting story, eric and stephanie. 10:00 to 12:00 catch your 140e on bloomberg tv. still ahead this morning the woman who's storing in the new movie alex croft is going to join us, carmen ejogo is going to join us live to talk about what it's like to work with tyler perry, the late whitney houston but also she's a member beurre of mensa. i am so excited to talk to her about that. also ahead this morning, politics light. mitt romney and president obama roast each other 48 hours after that bruising debate. we'll have some highlights of some of their comic relief coming up next. >> i went shopping at some stores in midtown. i understand governor romney went shopping for some stores in midtown. >> it's nice to finally relax and wear what ann and i wear around the house.

as president obama surveys the waldorf banquet room, with everyone in white tie and finery, you have to wonder what he's thinking. so little time. so much to redistribute. >> after my foreign trip in 2008 i was attacked as a celebrity, because i was so popular with our allies overseas. and i have to say i'm impressed with how well governor romney has avoided that problem. >> that was mitt romney and president obama sharing a few laughs last night, at the annual al smith charity dinner. they were making fun of each other. they were making fun of

themselves. they both made fun of joe biden at one point. i thought that was pretty funny. you can still see it's very tense. >> it's an unbelievable thing. i've been to a few of these things. these guys from months of tearing each other apart on the trail, they walk in this room, all of a sudden there are smiles and patting each other on the back and they actually seem to enjoy. barack obama sitting behind -- >> i was going to say -- >> they look like they do. it's a weird thing. i -- >> they do not actually enjoy -- >> i can't speak for every president or every politician but i know -- >> you can speak for one. >> the president i worked for, you know, he probably had a pretty good time but i remember, this was a big scramble. the white house speech writers had to come up with these jokes. they didn't really want to be there. they had to look like they were having fun. i mean, you know, it's a show. >> surely one thing has changed. speech writers are not writing those jokes. those are some quality jokes. there's some pros in that. >> the speech writers call the jokemakers. >> right. >> mitt romney took the afternoon off yesterday to work on it.

>> everything is a little funnier, i think. right? >> i wouldn't say that there was a lot of actual fun being had by the candidacies. >> there was by me. i wish i'd see more of this mitt romney. >> i thought he was really funny. especially on wealth. >> more than just deprecation. >> self-deprecating. >> a lot of times thee are more self-deprecating. >> i thought it was pretty good. >> we've got 4r09s of clips to share from last night. also ahead this morning on "starting point," we're going to introduce you to a woman who's got a new tv series and a new movie out. the movie is called alex croft. it comes out today actress carmen ejogo joins us.

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where you want to start? the front door with the screen door you fixed? you can hoffy with with someone before you came home, put hand sanitizer on. >> you need a clue. >> i need a clue. >> very close. >> i don't know what that can be? maybe the sonogram in the printer. >> that is a print from the new movie, "alex cross" it is a reboot from the james patterson mystery. actress carmen ejogo plays cross's wife maria. i'm so excited to see this movie because you don't think -- tyler perry does comedy and you don't think of him as a detective.

>> he is so adept at playing this role. he was remarkable. he has proven himself as a great producer and director. he wears all hats usually. and he came to set willingly as just the actor, just to do his thing as an actor. he was so commendable for that. he really proves his stuff. >> tell us about your character. obviously devoted wife. >> i'm playing the wife in this one. i provide the lightness in the movie. we are in dark territory with this film. we have a serial killer on the loose. tyler plays the homicide detective and it becomes psychological games against tyler's character. my character is one of the roles where you can't say too much or i give it away. you have to see the film. it is an amazing twist in the

middle of the movie. >> you are married to another actor. you have this film. you are doing a series for abc. you are both working a ton. i think it is hard to be a working actorer anyway. but to be married to another working actor. >> the mom part of it is where it gets tricky at times. they have the best of me. i was the stay at home mom forever. and then i got these great roles. i got my kids set up at full time school and then i did my thing again. it's definitely a juggling act. i think we just about pull it off. >> you have to be smart and be like -- >> she told you about that. >> do we have to talk about this? >> obviously not from kathleen kennedy kennedy -- kentucky.

how do you do an american accent? >> i think it helps if you have a musical background and i have a singing thing in my past. there is a melody that you have to hear and there is a rhythm to it. >> do an american accent for us. >> i actually love. it helps the transformation. i feel further away from myself when i have to do an accent. >> in addition to being a member of it you are crafty. you like to craft. i love you so much. she does crafts. i'm not making this up. >> i think when you have kids it comes. there is a resurgeance of crafting. it is cooler than when your grandma did it. it is not like knitting circles although that can be fun, too. it is very antimaterialest and

anticonsumerest when you are doing it yourself. i make my own clothes sometimes. >> you can make a tie? >> totally. >> let's get you on his level. >> so nice to have you. the movie is called "alex cross." we have to take a short break. new evidence in the deadly meningitis outbreak. we will tell you what health officials have now found. and then the bronx bombers. >> you are insincere. >> the tigers just swept their way to the world series. my sons were literally sobbing last night about this. >> this was rough. we are back in a moment.

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good morning. "starting point" the lighter side. president obama and mitt romney with a lot of humor last night. >> everyone please take your seats otherwise he will yell at them. >> it is nice to finally relax and wear what ann and i wear around the house. >> good natured laughs going into monday night's debate. will she or won't she? growing speculation about hillary clinton's political future. the interview talking about her 2016 white house run. does it violate the separation of church and state we talk to a cheerleader and her mom. former ohio governor ted

strickland and former new york governor and "the hungry girl" author will join us. "starting point" begins right now. welcome. our team this morning charles blow is with us. he is a "new york times" columnist. you are saying you are from the deep south. no accent. >> my mom call. >> richard is with us, as well. he is a writer for new yorker.com. and former senior adviser to president clinton, will cain. sometimes richard takes your seat. >> john berman sticking around. "starting point" is all about the zingers traded last month after months of slinging vicious

attacks. probably just for one night, though. the two candidates smiling and taking hands at the al smith charity dinner. the jabs light hearted and i thought pretty funny. the presidential debate was different a couple of days ago. >> as president obama surveys the banquet room with everyone in white tie and finery, you have to wonder what he is thinking, so little time, so much to redistribute. >> after my foreign trip in 2008 i was attacked as a celebrity because i was so popular with our allies overseas. i have to say i'm impressed with how well governor romney has avoided that problem. >> joining us is ted strickland and former new york governor. we will start with governor strickland. it's funny to watch the shots from that dinner because some of

that i thought was a little bit tense, maybe more tense than in 2008. do you think it matters to voters? we watch every moment of it and we parse through the looks and the handshakes. do you think voters care at all about that? >> i thought it was a fun evening. both governor romney and the president were funny, appropriately so. and everyone seemed to be having a good time. i think these events do display something about the personalities of the individuals and certainly last night we saw two very funny men, i thought. >> let me take a look at some polls that looks at likely voters. in your state the president has a sliver of a lead. 51% to 43%. the margin of error is almost that lead. why are you confident that your state is going to go for president obama? >> for several months the president has maintained

sometimes a slight but consistent lead. ohio seems to have pretty much made up its mind in this campaign. i don't know that it is over. >> it is .5% of a lead there. so it sounds like you are overstating it when you say ohio has made up its mind. >> but there are very, very few undecideds. i have yet to see a credible poll in several months that has governor romney in the lead. i think that says something about the consistency of the attitude that we have here in ohio. i think ohioens have made up their mind about governor romney and the president and i am feeling confident that the president's got a solid, steady lead and that he will do well

and emerge the victor. the polls that came out yesterday the president being up 6 in wisconsin, 8 in iowa. if the president wins ohio, iowa and wisconsin this race is over. >> which puts the focus back on ohio. a .5 lead. i was pointing to a four point lead. with a margin of error it is a .5 lead. the orlando sentinel endorsed governor romney. as you pointed out florida hugely important in this race. they said this. they endorsed obama in 2008. we have little confidence that obama would be more successful managing the economy and the budget in the next four years. for that reason, though we endorsed him in 2008, we are recommending romney in this race. how damaging is that?

>> i don't know if newspaper endorsements make much difference at all. that has been my experience in my political career. there have been times when i have gotten all the major endorsements in my congressional races and lost the race and vice versa. i really think people aren't influenced very much by newspapers these days. i don't think they are influenced much at all by newspaper endorsements. >> governor, the early voting is so important in ohio and there is such an edge for president obama four years ago there. he still has an edge in ohio. the republicans are making serious in roads there. is that a concern to you? and how much of an edge do you have to have? >> i don't know that the republicans are making big in roads. the president won 51-47. i think it will end up sort of in that area again this year. and i will settle for that. i see no evidence that the

republicans are making any significant gains in these last days. the nbc poll last week i believe it was 51-45. the president has been recently over 50%. that is what really counts. once you get 50% you will win the election. >> let me play a chunk of what the president said to john stewart yesterday about libya. >> we weren't confused about the fact that four americans had been killed. i wasn't confused about the fact that we needed to ramp up diplomatic security. >> you have to admit it wasn't the optimal response to the american people. >> here is what i will say. if four americans get killed it is not optimal. >> the president has been

getting a lot of criticism for saying optimal. four americans get killed it is not optimal. what do you think of that? >> i think this whole issue is being politicized and i don't understand why. what do they think the president hopes to accomplish if he has done as they say, he is misleading the people. i think the most obscene part of this whole scenario was the fact that while our embassy was under attack, here was governor romney holding a press conference criticizing the president. the father of the slain ambassador has asked that this issue not be politicized. governor romney in the video talking about 47% of us not being very worthy talked about the fact that if there was a foreign policy issue that he would try to exploit it.

i think he is doing exactly what he said he would do in that video and i think it is unseemly. usually when we are under attack or our country has been threatened in some way we really come together and we unify. we don't divide. and i believe that romney campaign is trying to divide americans on this issue and i think it's unseenly. i don't know what they think the president is trying to accomplish. >> governor strickland, we are out of time. i want to thank you for being with us. we appreciate you being here. you heard what governor strickland had to say talking about libya being politicized and that governor romney was criticizing the attack before the attack in his words had happened. >> governor strickland immediately went to democratic

talking points. that doesn't serve the american people well. president obama when he said it was not optimal that we had four americans slain that is a poor choice of words. when you are in a campaign if every time you choose the wrong word you will be destroyed it is not good for the country. let's focus on what matters here. there are two issues. why was security pulled? two military teams pulled in august of this year from benghazi and libya when the ambassador and others were saying they feared for their lives because they didn't have adequate security. the president in the debate when governor romney said you did not say that you were blaming it on the video, your administration a week later, the president said in the rose garden the next day i said it was a terrorist attack and candy crowley said he did in fact he did not.

>> he never said it is a terrorist attack. he said act of terrorism. >> i listened to governor strickland with democratic talking points for five minutes. for over a week after the horrible attacks this president's administration, the u.n. ambassador was out there saying they believe it was the video. and this is after the president allegedly understood and claimed that it was an act of terrorism. he never said in his administration. who told secretary rice on all the national talk shows that it was the youtube video? who told jay carney at press conferences to say it was the youtube video? that didn't come out of his own mind. that was the official position of the administration and i

think it is unfortunate. what is more unfortunate is the misstatement at the debate but so many other issues, the decline of federal permits. president obama looked right at the camera and the american people and said you are wrong, governor romney. those facts are not right. in fact, they were right. >> john berman was a fact checker on that. >> governor romney was right when said production fell 14% in 2010-2011. president obama was correct when saying production was higher. >> natural gas down 9%. >> oil is down. >> down 9%. >> we would rather do this back and forth. you were a successful three-term governor here in new york and a moderate. you governed as a moderate,

maybe slightly right moderate. do you think that governor romney would have been better served to run as a moderate during the primaries. now that we see him in the general election he is taking more moderate positions? >> the candidate is doing something because of some brilliant political strategy as opposed to believe what they are saying. i believe governor romney is running a presidential campaign based on what he believes. i think the american people are seeing that he is not going to destroy the middle class and not going to raise taxes on them and not this evil figure who doesn't care about the american people. and i think that the fact that people are seeing governor romney as someone with a stature and ideas and positions to help this country and particularly the middle class move forward is what has turned around this campaign. >> some of the positions that seem to shift.

>> that's an under statement. >> from the primaries to now? >> the emphasis shift. he talked a lot about cutting taxes on the rich during the primaries and now that seems to have disappeared. he talked a lot about -- >> he didn't talk about cutting taxes on the rich. he talked about lowering the top rate. even lowering the top rate less than obama's bipartisan commission had suggested. it is always you are going to cut the taxes on the rich. the president wants to raise the taxes. >> the emphasis is different now. it may be a question of nuance. >> libya has come to the forefront. >> i know we are talking about politics but the libya issue is sticking with me. there was a question asked, what would the motivation have been for the obama administration to continue with the lie that it was due to the video.

i can't accept the politization argument because that question, why did you continue -- i don't care about the rose garden. why did we continue to hear that for two weeks? why? >> i can't speak for the obama administration but let me give you a thought on that. one of the cornerstones is al qaeda is on the run and i killed osama bin laden. he dropped that al qaeda is on the run since the attack on libya. the idea that al qaeda is back and strong enough to murder an american ambassador for the first time in 34 years didn't fit with the narrative of the administration. >> do you think we are not safer today than we were back when we had this original september 11

attack? >> absolutely we are safer today than then. i'm not sure we are safer than 2009? you think we are not safe? >> let me tell you something. we do know that detainees have been on the battlefield and killed american troops and al qaeda is resurgeant in parts of the world where they were not before. we know that syria poses an enormous strategic threat to us and to our allies and that because we are so far behind the curve that islamist radicals are filling the void and fighting against assad. we know that has happened and that iran is four years closer to a nuclear weapon. we are safer than 2001. >> you mentioned the rose garden speech. we have been talking about this a lot so we have the transcripts

handy. he said this and this is what candy crowley during the debate confirmed. no acts of terror will shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character. so that is exactly specifically -- >> the point that governor romney was making was not that he didn't condemn acts of terror but did not say that the libyan attack had been an act of terror which he did not. for weeks thereafter as you were pointing out the official line of the administration was that it was the youtube video. where did that come from? the libyan government was telling us it was an act of terror. our government was saying it was a youtube video. did you think the government would be more active than our government? >> are you suggesting that they made it up? i want to follow the logical conclusion of what you are saying. what are you saying the white house did? >> i am suggesting they had a

political narrative. >> that they made it up? >> no they didn't make it up. intelligence is never 100% black or white. there are degrees of certainty. it appears as though in a relatively short period of time intelligence believed with a high degree of belief that it was a terrorist attack and the youtube video had nothing to do with it. you could still somehow claim because there was no certainty. that is what the administration did. >> what was the tipping point? exactly. i'm trying to figure it out. >> within 24 hours they knew it was a terrorist attack. >> for two weeks -- >> i would just say in the words that you have chosen when you said the administration had said it was a youtube video. to me the verbiage is very important. >> attack in response to a

video. >> if you are talking about susan rice. our current assessment is what happened in benghazi was initially a spontaneous reaction to what had transpired hours ago, almost a copy cat of the demonstrations which were prompted by the video. that was the strongest statement. >> not only in response to the video but there was no protest at all. >> no one has said it was a youtube video. just the same way in which candy was correcting. >> the language you read made it plain that the impression they were creating with the american people and the global community was that it was as a result of that demonstration caused by a reaction to a video that probably no one ever saw. >> i agree with you on that. i think what candy said in this debate was she was agreeing with governor romney, as well, saying on the quote this was said in

terms of the two weeks plus that it was debated and it was inaccurate. that governor romney you are correct. that is what was said. it is always nice to have you. thank you for joining us. >> i appreciate you defending your colleagues so effectively. >> it is less about defending candy but more about going to the transcript. i am happy to have a debate about anything with anybody sticking to the words that were said and everybody can have their analysis. >> i would never run against you and try to debate you. >> i would never run. >> you are very smart. >> that's a guarantee. we have to take a break. and then on "starting point" secretary of state hillary clinton insisting she is not going to run for president in 2016. there are folks who don't believe her. we will take a look at signals. . i have a cold, and i took nyquil,

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welcome back to "starting point." watching your money this morning u.s. stock futures are lowers. earnings growth is slowing. in google's case down right surprising. not only were earnings weaker than expected but came out by mistake early. >> technology issues. >> i think it was a human error. 8% lower. >> that almost never happens. >> a big surprise. irs announcing it is raising the contribution limit by $500 to $17500 what you can sock away pretax. it is raising the bar for gifts next year to $14,000 up from $13,000. tax free gifts. the catch up contribution limit for people over 50 years old remains unchanged at 5,5$5,50 $

hillary clinton, many folks say she will run for president in 2016. john berman just did an emphatic no. elise is in washington d.c. as i was reading the introduction to you john berman was like -- >> nobody believes her. >> there are folks who say even though she says she is not requitting folks say they believe she will run for the presidentancy an presidency. >> she did this interview in which she said i have been on this high wire of national and international politics and leadership for 20 years.

it has absolutely been an extraordinary honor and experience but i really just want to have my own time back. i want to just be my own person. she is tired. i'm tired from traveling with her. >> come on. you don't believe that. really? i'm tired. >> i think she believes it right now. i think the frantic pace over the last 3 1/2 years is grueling. traveling with her for the last years is exhausted. after resting and recharging and her supporters coming out of the woodworks and maybe next year saying it has to be you if we are going to get a woman president. a lot of aides told me if she decides to run they would drop everything. i think she needs a break. >> i need a break, too. >> in my defense your introduction said hillary clinton gave an emphatic no. she was asked if she would run

for president and her exact words were i am not running. she is not running right now for president. >> back to the transcripts. >> an emphatic no is no, not ever in no way. >> i am going to agree with you. even her husband, the former president who i worked for and i feel like i work for her, too, said if she is tired give her a rest. we'll see what she says after she is rested. >> you and i will be talking about hillary clinton the candidate at some point in the near future. what does she mean about whining? >> this came up in the context of the article by her former policy planning director, very controversial article in which she said women can't have it all and she had to quit because of the frantic pace. i think there was an editorial slight of hand trying to tie the

comments to secretary clinton saying i can't stand whining. it was part of a larger conversation about women having a lot more choices. it doesn't necessarily have to be about money. if you are not happy about what you are doing in life go out and do something. volunteer. do something to make a contribution. she felt that she doesn't like when people sit around and have a lot of choices but are still miserable. it was part of a conversation about the book "catcher and the rye." but it wasn't a dig at her directly. still ahead on "starting point" it's paul ryan's home state, wisconsin hasn't voted republican in a presidential race since 1984. take a look at the battle ground state. millions of people follow her on twitter and her blog. hungry girl lisa joins us with her new book.

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in the 2 1/2 weeks the obama and romney campaigns will move heaven and earth to try to get the swing voters to move to their side. wisconsin is one of the states still in play. that includes the rural county. cnn went down on the farm

talking to female voters who kpd end up deciding the election. >> here we are milking cows. what else are we doing in a place that offers such delicious dairy delicacies? this is a county in play in a place that hasn't voted for a republican since reagan in 1984. the family has farmed here since grover cleveland was president. they have run the family dairy for 16 years. twice a day, 3:00 a.m. and p.m. they milk their 80 cows. they want to expand but it is tight. their biggest concern government debt acting like an anchor on the economy. >> did you make up your mind who you are voting for? >> i have a good idea. >> reporter: but still could change it. >> anything can change. >> reporter: what is it they want out of the white house? >> it will take someone that

wants to strap on their big boy boots and really take charge and say we are in a world of hurt. we need change. >> reporter: voters here take election seriously. turnout is high and most voters independent. these counties voted for george bush in 2002 and 2004. the same counties voted obama in '08. there are more bush to obama swing counties in wisconsin than any other state. even in the same family votes often split. >> i am voting for romney. >> you think because of his business credentials? >> yes. he is a business man first. >> i have no clue who i am going to vote for. >> reporter: four years ago gloria and her daughter started their own bakery. they struggled but the business grew now at a bigger space and three new employees.

social issues or economic issues bigger? >> i have to go with economic because of our country but social issues are important. it isn't right to tell a woman what they can or can't do with their body. >> reporter: she says she works harder than ever to keep their head above water. any idea of a campaign? >> in the mail and on the phone. >> reporter: five women and one battle ground state, both campaigns working for their votes in the final stretch. we have breaking news. we are at the rank family farm. just a few hours after we shot that story one of the heffers gave birth to twin bulls. and the family won't tell us who they voted for but they named this one mitt. and this cutie is barack.

still ahead they have spirit and they can show it. texas cheerleaders are allowed to tout the bible slogans on banners but should they? i'm a conservative investor.

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welcome back. this just in. a car bomb in berut has killed an injured an unknown number of people. our reporter describes the scene as chaos. smoke is seen pouring out of the buildings. you will want to stay with cnn. she was shot in the head by the taliban because she fought for women's rights. there is new information. doctors say the pakistani teen has been able to stand up and is communicating freely. she is writing but not talking because she has a tracheotomy

tube inserted. there is some physical damage. she is being treated for an infection. a batch of steroids was tainted with a deadly fungus. this was the first confirmation. this has left 20 people dead. the fda is testing two more batches of the drugs right now. the detroit tigers punching in a ticket to the world series with a clean sweep of the yankees. the tigers pounded the yanks 8-1 the fourth and final game. the cardinals took a 3-1 lead over the san francisco giants. it was an 8-3 victory. there will be a game five tonight. this will be a rematch if the cardinals go through with the 2006 world series. >> don't think i don't notice your gloating. >> when he says stuff like they lost every single game that is

advocating. >> a sweep means you don't win anything. >> can i move on? fantastic. up next we are talking about cheerleaders in texas. they are now allowed to continue putting bible versus on their spirit banners. some say it is a violation of the separation of church and state. you know her as hungry girl. lisa lilian will talk about her new book called "hungry girl to the max." who has 11 major brands to choose from? your ford dealer. who's offering a rebate? your ford dealer. who has the low price tire guarantee... affording peace of mind to anyone who might be in the market for a new set of res? your ford dealer. i'm beginning to sense a pattern. buy four select tires, get a $60 rebate. use the ford service credit credit card, get $60 more. that's up to $120. where did you get that sweater vest? your ford dealer. if you're a man with low testosterone, you should know that axiron is here. the only underarm treatment for low t. that's right, the one you apply to the underarm.

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welcome back. high school cheerleaders in texas have temporarily won their fight to use banners that have bible versus at football games. the school district banned the banners and the cheerleaders

sued and a judge extended the injunction. casey matthews is a cheerleader. she joins us with her mom, cody, and mike johnson is a lawyer representing the cheerleaders. tell me a bit of the background. how did you get the idea of starting the football game with holding the banners? >> we were at cheer camp one day and eating lunch and a girl on my team had saw a picture on pinterest. she showed a picture and asked if we would want to do that. >> cody, i'm curious to know what your thoughts were when your daughter and friends said this is going to be our plan for the football games. were you worried at all about it? did you think it was a great idea? >> i thought it was a great idea

y. was very proud of her when she came home and told me they had the idea to do that. >> when did you realize it had become controversial? that not everybody was completely happy with it? there was a guy who complained and said he is a nonbeliever and goes to the games regularly? >> no one complained about it until the third football game that we had a sign. whenever they made the announcement i was shocked that anybody had complained. i didn't see what we had done wrong or how we violated anything. >> so there is a guy named thomas brant and he is the attorney for the quincy independent school district. he says this. it is pretty clear -- we have him on tape. let's roll what he said. >> the case law is pretty clear that cheerleaders represent the school. it's a school sponsored activity. it's a football game. it's on the school property, the field.

so it seems to me that the law has been fairly clear that that ends up being a school event. and so it's hard to say that this is the individual free speech rights of the individual cheerleaders rather than something that is a sponsored school event. >> mike, you're an attorney for a number of the cheerleaders. you obviously disagree with what that attorney, thomas brant, says. tell me why. >> we disagree and the court does and the u.s. supreme court and the governor of texas and the attorney general have weighed in in support of the cheerleaders. the supreme court said students and teachers do not shed their constitutional rights to free speech. if you are in a hallway between classes or on the football field you are an american citizen. the court has affirmed that. >> they sort of affirmed it because it is going to go to court in the summer where there

will hopefully be a final decision. you mentioned you don't shed your constitutional right but i think that is what is in debate here. i want to ask you a question. if there was a cheerleader who said to you i'm jewish and to read slogans from the bible that talk abo christ makes me uncomfortable, would you say maybe we should take down the slogans. maybe it was a football player who said i'm a nonbeliever and this makes me uncomfortable, what would you do? >> it's the same case like if they wanted to hold up a sign with something from their religion they have the right to do that and so do we. there is nothing we can do about that. >> if they decided to hold up and have the football team run through the slogans taking out of the quran you would be fine with that? >> that's their right to do so. >> the law would equally support

that. that is who we are as americans. we have free speech. those lirblt liberties are und assault today. people from all over the country and international have come to the support of these girls for standing up to their rights. >> it is an important case. it will be interesting to see how it is decided come next summer. mike johnson is the attorney. cody matthews is the mom of casey matthews who is a cheerleader. thanks for talking with us. still ahead on "starting point" we all struggle with eating correctly and well i guess. hungry girl lisa lilian thinks you can have good food and not necessarily eat like a pig. she will join us to talk about that and talk about her new book called "hungry girl to the max." so... [ gasps ]

these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one.

so we all at times eat a little bit too much. our next guest thinks you can handle cravings without compromising your taste. she has released her seventh book. >> the book is called "hungry girl to the max." it weighs roughly 46 pounds. hungry girl herself is with us this morning. tell me about when you got into cooking. >> i was a tv executive and i decided to launch a brand about smarter choices when it comes to food. i'm not a nutritionist or medical professional but i'm

just hungry. i struggle trying to find foods i want to eat and still fitting into my pants. >> you lost a lot of weight. >> i lost close to 30 pounds and i'm only 5'1" so that is a lot of weight. >> tell me about your recipes. all of your books were on the top lists. i'm a microwaver. i don't really cook. >> it is a lot of product youz find supermarket shelves. could not be easier. >> you have gotten flack in the past, people criticize you for your recipes not being nutritionist. a lot of chefs say we pick the lettuce from my garden and this is organic. you have a different strategy. how do you answer the critics? >> a lot of fresh vegetables, fruits, but this is reality and people are shopping at supermarkets and there are

better choices in the inner ais aisles. it is not like a cheese cake or a fuji apple. there saf lot of ocean. >> can i choose the cheese cake, please? >> 80% of the time you don't make the right choices. >> i only saw like ten bacon recipes in there. >> anything in the cook book that you can get from takeout? >> from the book? >> that you don't have to cook? >> this book is as close to takeout as you can get. i have to be honest with you. >> you don't cook at all? >> i can cook but i choose not to. >> i can dunk but i choose not to. what is your favorite recipe in here? >> the ultimate lazy recipe. you put egg beaters and egg

whites in the microwave with with vegetables and a wedge of cheese. even you can do that. >> can you do that with regular eggs? >> absolutely. i use egg substitute. >> we are very interested right before the segment we are fighting over it. will and i are very interested in how to stay fit and trim. >> so uncomfortable when you are speaking for me. >> i apparently am not. >> the guys on the show talk more about fashion and their diet. they are very metro. >> these recipes are for men and women and anybody who wants to make smarter choices and fit into their clothing which is pretty much everyone in the planet. >> it is 500 pages long. "hungry girl to the max the

ultimate guilt free cook book." nice to have you with us. we are back in a moment. of our e with the cadillac ats. this is actually starting to feel real now. [ ross ] this is the perfect place to test the ats's advanced aerodynamics. [ derek ] we've got crosswinds, tailwinds, headwinds. aerodynamics is all about keeping the car planted on the road. you are going to get hit by stuff, so don't freak out. [ screaming with excitement ] and move out now. ♪ [ male announcer ] the all-new cadillac ats. ♪ these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one.