fat. they're packed with vitamins a, c, and k, and you can make them pretty easily. stay connected with me at cnn.com/sanjay, and let's keep the conversation going on twitter. this is "cnn sunday morning." a swimsuit designer, a private machi manhattan club, and some revealing surveillance footage. the high fashion murder that shocked new york. >> do you think what you are spreading, what you are displayi displaying, is love by telling them to get out? >> i do. >> in today's "faces of faith," we'll talk to a pastor who says gay boy scouts have no place in his church and has taken action. christ-like or prejudiced? and don't call it a comeback yet. phil mickelson celebrating both

his birthday and father's day on the links, but can he keep his u.s. open lead? is good morning. i'm alison kosik. it's 8:00. thanks so much for starting your morning with us. we're going to begin this hour on new details on the ways the government watches its citizens. the intelligence community is trying to calm fears over its surveillance program. it's releasing new information about how it uses phone records, saying in a document sent to congress that records can only be searched when a, quote, reasonable suspicion can connect a name or telephone number to a specific terrorist threat and that phone records were searched fewer than 300 times last year. athena jones is following the story from washington. good morning, athena. what else is in this letter? >> reporter: good morning, alison. ever since this nsa story broke, there's been a lot of pressure on the administration and on the intelligence community to explain just what it is the nsa is doing, what they're collecting, how they're

collecting it, and how it's being useful. the government has been very eager to talk about how this program has helped stop terrorist attacks. let's listen to what nsa director general keith alexander had to say in testimony on capitol hill last week. he's talking about this section of the patriot act that allows this data to be collected. let's listen to the exchange between him and senator patrick leahy from vermont. >> we collect millions and millions and millions of records through 215, but dozens of them have proved crucial or critical. is that right, dozens? is >> both here and abroad in disrupting or contributing to the disruption of a terrorist attack. >> out of those millions, dozens have been critical? >> that's correct. >> in a document cnn was able to

obtain, a secret, classified document about these programs and telling us more about them, we've learned a little bit more about the dozens of attacks that have been thwarted. in this document, a highlight is a point that says in recent years intelligence gathered under them has contributed to the disruption of dozens of potential terror attacks here in the homeland and in more than 20 countries around the world. we are working to provide more information on this. this is the kind of thing we want to learn more about. i can tell you that also in that document it mentions one specific case, that's the case of najibullah zazi, who had plotted to bomb the subway in new york. this document says that that attack was thwarted with the help of this surveillance program, alison. >> athena, what about learning details of other specific threats that maybe weren't in the news. what are the chances we'll hear those specific details, knowing that they're supposed to be so secretive? >> reporter: that's very interesting, alison. we know they want to give more data, as that statement pointed out from the document.

they're working to see what other kind of data they can provide about other cases because certainly the american public wants to know, wants evidence these programs have helped keep america safe. so we're told by members of the congress that some more information about other cases could trickle out in the coming days. we're also told by people in the intelligence community that some of it is going to have to remain secret. s that the difficulty here. how do you adjust it by program if so many details have to remain secret. that's what they're trying to balance out. that's what we'll be looking for this week. alison? >> athena jones in washington, thanks. it's been one week since edward snowden's bombshell revelation that he was the source of the surveillance leaks. the big question now is where is he? cnn international correspondent nic robertson is on the trail in hong kong. nic, snowden left his job. he left his family. he left his girlfriend. headed to hong kong last month. any indication he's still there? >> reporter: it's very hard to

say. i mean, really, the trail went cold almost a week ago right now. the hotel that he was staying n in, that became clear late sunday, and he checked out of that same hotel early monday morning. really, we don't know where he is since then. however, on wednesday he did talk to representatives, journalists from the south china morning post. although they won't say where they met him and they haven't released any photographs of meeting him, the indication seems to be that they did meet him here in hong kong. as far as we know, until wednesday he was here. we certainly know the british government is saying he can't get on a flight to go there. they haven't reported him leaving by any legal means, in terms of people who cross the borders every day. but the indications are he's still here somewhere. is he really hiding from authorities? perhaps not. perhaps he's just hiding out from journalists because he has

said he has -- essentially willing to put himself at the hands of the courts and the people of hong kong. >> are there any more leaks coming, do you think? >> certainly, security analysts believe that there's the real potential for it, and he himself has said that, while he had access to all this security data, he had access, for example, to the names, locations, and roles of cia operatives around the world, the stations that they operated out of, and even covert operatives. but he has said that he's not willing to -- that it's not his intention to endanger people to put that kind of information out, but it's clear that he does have a vast trove of information, and that's been indicated by "the guardian" blogger glenn greenwald, who has indicated that what we've seen so far is only the tip of the iceberg. so i think that everyone is expecting there really could be

more to come out. who's he going to call with it and who's he going to want to tell it to, we don't know that at the moment. >> given the revelations about the surveillance programs, nic, is it becoming clear how some terror suspects, how they may have been tracked and even caught? >> reporter: the najibullah zazi case is the one that's been profiled, and the details that we know about that, zazi went to pakistan in 2008, august 2008. he met with somebody there called ahmed. ahmed also hosted an al qaeda cell leader from britain in november of the same year, 2008. i was in manchester, england, when that cell leader and other people from that cell were arrested because they'd been in contact with this person, ahmed, in pakistan, and that was something that had been picked up by british intelligence in working with the nsa. we understood that at the time.

we also later understood -- this was back in 2009 -- that when najibullah zazi was caught, it's because the account, the e-mail account of ahmed in pakistan was being watched, and that led, after these arrests in the uk, that led to triggering suspicion about zazi when he contacted it. so you have these arrests in the uk that seem to result from this as well. you have the arrest of zazi, and there was also another operative in norway who was also in contact with this ahmed e-mail person in pakistan, and he also was picked up, again, through, it appears, this same technique. and this same data trolling. so here you have three cases, not just zazi planning to attack the united states, but a manchester plot in britain and a plot in norway as well. over to colorado, where firefighters say they've turned the corner on what's being called the worst wildfire in that state's history. the black forest fire is 55%

contained this morning, and no more lives have been lost. but authorities say the damage that's already been done is catastrophic. >> it looks like a nuclear bomb went off in some of those areas, and you can't even recognize whether it was a house or some other kind of structure. >> another large wildfire is 40% contained, and others continue to burn. across colorado, more than 1,000 people are battling the flames. our george howell is in colorado springs. george? >> reporter: the grass is still green, his home still standing, and mike is back to his regular routine after the mandatory evacuation has been lifted. how does it feel to be home? >> it's good. we left during the mandatory on wednesday, and then they put a mandatory on thursday night, which is a little nerve-racking. but our boys and my wife were able to pack some things up.

so we felt pretty comfortable with leaving when we did. >> reporter: just down the road, it's an entirely different story for trevor miller, who still can't return home. >> i see everything packed up there in the back. >> everything in the back is my brother and i's stuff. we had three other cars too that left our house, and those were all packed with our family supplies. we had about an hour to grab everything that we wanted or needed before leaving our house. >> reporter: some 38,000 people were forced to evacuate earlier this week as firefighters struggled to protect property and hold the line against the wildfire. so far, more than 15,000 acres have been scorched, but firefighters have been able to gain ground. late friday, mother nature stepped in with much needed rainfall that colorado governor jog h john hickenlooper said had a big

impact. >> i was standing right there. it's the first time my grandmother always said you're too stupid to come out of the rain. i was too happy to come out of the rain. >> reporter: officials announced saturday they didn't lose any structures or lose any ground overnight. proof that firefighters are gaining the upper hand. >> we want the fire to come out and fight now. wre we're ready. we're staffed. we're equipped. show yourself, and we'll take care of it. >> reporter: firefighters out here are optimistic about fighting this fire, especially with all the weather that has moved through over the weekend, but it is a missioned bag because these thunderstorms, they bring lightning, and lightning can obviously start new fires. that's a big concern. it also brings rainfall in several different areas, heavy rainfall, and that is welcome news as firefighters keep up the fight. alison? >> george howell, thanks. so springfield, missouri, where more rain is expected today after heavy storms saturday triggered flashed flooiflo floding. this suv got trapped by the rushing waters. as much as nine inches of rain

fell in just a few hours. water rescues were reported as well as flooded homes. kspr reports traffic on the freeway slowed to a crawl as water swept over the roads. where exactly is that storm headed? could flash floods wash out your father's day? let's bring in meteorologist jennifer delgado in the cnn weather center. what is the sunday forecast? >> hi there, alison. the sunday forecast means more rain, especially for parts of the midwest, an area that does not need more rainfall. we do have flood watches in place, as you can see, for areas including parts of southern missouri as well as into kansas. that is wide receivafter all the down yesterday. flash flooding is the number one weather related killer out there. so don't risk trying to go and cross these flooded roadways. it's just too dangerous, certainly can be deadly. over the last 24 hours, eight to ten inches in some areas just to the north of springfield. four to six in parts of kansas. as we go through the day, yes, we'll continue to see more

showers and thunderstorms popping up. with that, some of these locations, we could still see roughly four to six inches of rainfall as we go through the next 48 hours. we're also going to be looking for severe storms to pop up into the midwest and across the plains. that includes parts of kansas all the way into parts of south dakota. some of these severe storms with it could be bringing damaging winds as well as hail. for the northeast, we didn't forget about you on father's day. let's go to a live shot coming out of new york. you're starting out with clouds now. it's dry now. maybe you need to run to the store for a little last-minute shopping for dad. you'll see rain moving in. scattered showers around the northeast, and a few popping up around florida. atlanta, we'll keep you sunny. same for the west coast. want to point out temperatures getting a little bit warmer. el paso, you're going to be the hot spot with 100. 95 in dallas. 91 in albuquerqualbuquerque.

90s and 80s in the southeast. one area we're concerned about is for the u.s. open. looks like today we're going to see rain out there. already starting to work in parts of pennsylvania. rain can have a bad effect sometimes on golfing. even if it is father's day. happy father's day out there to everybody. >> is jennifer delgado, thanks. president obama heading to europe tonight. he's going to meet with other world leaders in it belfast, northern ireland, for the g-8 summit. the violent conflict in syria is expected to dominate the agenda at the two-day gathering. mr. obama then heads to germany where he could face questions about the controversial u.s. surveillance programs. former president george w. bush safe at home now in dallas after an in flight scare last night. he was on a flight from philadelphia to his native texas when the pilot reported smelling smoke. the flight was sent to louisville, where it landed without incident. bush made it back to dallas earlier this morning. a swimsuit designer found dead in a bathtub at a swanky hotel. now her ex-boyfriend is on trial

for her murder, and we're seeing new photos of her moments before her death. ♪ 'cause you make me feel so right ♪ ♪ even if it's so wrong ♪ i wanna scream out loud ♪ boy, but i just bite my tongue ♪ ♪ this one's for the girls messin' with boys ♪ ♪ like he's the melody and she's background noise ♪ [ volume decreases ] thanks, mom! have fun! you too. ♪ ♪ thto fight chronic. osteoarthritis pain. to fight chronic low back pain. to take action. to take the next step.

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in less than 24 hours, our all new morning show beginning tomorrow, once again, with chris cromwell, kate bolduan. si swimsuit designer checked into a swanky hotel room with her boyfriend in december of 2010. she never checked out. now her boyfriend, nicholas brooks, the son of a grammy winning song writer, is on trial for her murder, and a jury is seeing these erie surveillance photos, probably the last time the woman who was killed was seen alive. cnn's alina cho is following this trial from new york. alina? >> reporter: alison, good morning. this is a story that gripped new york city when it happened. i'm sure you remember it. think about it, a young, beautiful swimsuit designer allegedly murdered at a private club by her own boyfriend, at least that's what prosecutors say happened. now a series of surveillance photos taken from video of that

club just may back it up. in the first photo, if we can play it, you can see boyfriend nicholas brooks and victim sylvie cachay checking into the soho house hotel. this was 12:31 a.m., just after midnight on december 9th, 2010. the next photo, just four minutes later, 12:35 a.m., sylvie, wearing the white coat and boots, escorted to the hotel room by the hotel employees. just after that, nicholas brooks arrives on the fifth floor, heads to the same room. then seven minutes later and just 14 minutes after the couple checks in, nicholas brooks is seen leaving the room alone. now, the "new york daily news" first showed these photos, which, again, were taken from video footage. the paper is reporting that the video, which was shown in court on friday, shows that brooks made multiple trips from the fifth floor room, heading downstairs for cigarettes, speaking to reception, and "the daily news" says that brooks was

seen as jittery, pacing, and even barefoot. cachay's body, and remember she was just 33 years old, was found submerged in water in an overflowing bathtub. authorities say she was strangled, her body had bite marks and cuts to her lips and mouth. brooks, son of the composer of the song "you light up my life," on trial for second degree murder. he has pleaded not guilty. alison, if convicted, he could face 25 years to life in prison. we should also mention we have reached out repeatedly to brooks' defense attorney and the family of sylvie cachay, but so far we have not heard back from either party. >> alina, have prosecutors said what a possible motive could be? is >> reporter: all that we know, alison, is that the couple, at least it's been widely reported, was on the verge of breaking up and that there were problems between the two. that didn't seem to be the case

when they were checking into the room together on that night on december 9th, but, of course, all of that will be coming out in the courtroom in the coming weeks. alison? >> alina cho, thank you. all eyes have shifted from tiger woods to phil mickelson at the u.s. open this weekend to see if he'll finally win after coming painfully close five times in the past. a live report coming up next. vo: traveling you definitely end up meeting a lot more people but a friend under water is something completely different.

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phil mickelson could be on the verge of finally winning his first u.s. open. he's come in second place five times, but he's hoping this will

finally be the year he finishes the championship. shane donahue is live near philly with more. shane, do people think he can actually pull it off this time? is >> reporter: i certainly think so. i go back quite a way with phil, to be honest. i've interviewed him many times in different roles, and i went up to him on monday night, we were at a dinner, and i relayed a story, which was very personal to me, because my son is 4 today. it's father's day. obviously, he's 43 today. it's father's day. i was just saying to him, you know, i really think, phil, you'll be signing the winner's flag for my son as the perfect present because i've been away over here in the states for a couple of weeks. and he said, i will sign it. i'm playing great, and i feel very good. and i said, look, i know that, phil. so i wish you the very best of luck. and we've kind of interacted a couple of times this week, and i did an interview with him for cnn on saturday night. you know, i've never seen anyone

as composed and as with it as he is this week. he has had a few blunders at this u.s. open because he dearly wants it. i think he's just learned through the process. and here he is now with just one round to go, and he embraces the challenge of what the u.s. open is all about. it's his 23rd attempt at it, and he's come close on five occasions, i suppose most significantly in 19 99 when he first really came close. he went toe to toe with payne stewart at pinehurst. stewart won his second u.s. open on that occasion. phil was expecting their first child with his wife amy, and he was prepared to leave the u.s. open at that time and leave the championship, but he stayed on until the bitter end, and they gave birth, a difficult birth a little bit later that week. this week he went back to his daughter's 12th -- she's a 12-year-old. her primary school graduation.

he really is into being a father, but he's into the u.s. open. i think he can do it today. >> shane o'donahue, we're certainly going to be watching. thank you. russian president vladimir putin is accused of stealing the super bowl ring belonging to patriots owner robert kraft. kraft says putin pocketed the diamond encrusted ring during a 2005 meeting in russia. that's at least covereding to a report in the "new york post." kraft says he tried to get the ring, but he was told it's better to say it's a gift in the interest of u.s.-russian relations. a putin spokesman maintains the ring was indeed a gift. a pastor in georgia gives a local boy scout troop the boot in response to allowing gay members. find out what a neighboring church did in response. keep working, but for himself. so as his financial advisor, i took a look at everything he has.

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[ male announcer ] now get 50% off brake pads and shoes at meineke. good morning. welcome to "cnn sunday morning." i'm alison kosik. in another blow to the syrian regime, egypt's president announced he's cutting diplomatic ties with the country and closing thee syrian embassy in cairo. the u.n. reports almost 93,000 people have died in the fighting. north korea's kim jong-un may be reaching out to the u.s. pyongyang is proposing high level talks with washington to ease tensions. since kim jong-un took power in 2011, pyongyang has carried out several long range rocket launches and underground nuclear tests. in april, the top commander in

the pacific warned that north korea's missile and weapons programs pose a clear and direct threat to u.s. security. iran has a new president, hassan rohani won more than 50% of the vote in friday's election. the 65-year-old moderate cleric has promised to improve iran's wilting economy and reduce unemployment, which tops 15%. in what could be a key overture to the west, he also promised to reduce international tensions over iran's controversial nuclear program. for today's "faces of faith," we're talking about the boy scouts of america. last month the organization voted for gay teens to be members, but that decision outraged pastors across the country, who have now banned local boy scout troops from meeting inside their churches, including this one, the roswell

street baptist church in marietta, georgia, just outside of atlanta. pastor earnest easley explained his decision. >> boys in there in a tent that are sexually attractive to other boys whose hormones are going off the walls, something's going to happen. >> pastor easley got a standing ovation from his congregation when he kicked out troop 204, but he also ruffled some feathers, including those of a nearby house of worship, which in response posted this marquee outside, welcoming the boy scouts to meet there instead. we interviewed that pastor from the one world center in marietta, georgia, along with ernest easley, the pastor of the baptist church. and asked if the goal of christianity was to be christian-like, wouldn't jesus have kicked out the boy scouts? >> trying to be christ-like is a

challenge today. i think about when some guys tried to trick jesus up. they brought a girl, a woman caught in adultery, and jesus confronted her with her sin. he didn't condone it. he confronted it. he didn't say, just keep on doing what you're doing, but because he loved her, he said, go and sin no more. >> but do you think he would have kicked these boy scouts out? do you think it was the right decision? >> well, i know this, that as a bible believing church, we're not going to align ourself in any formal capacity with any outside group that openly accepts and affirms moral practices that violate god's word. >> reference sy, you welcomed them to your church. >> yes. >> why? >> one world offers many paths to god. we focus on what is at the heart

of the world's great religions. what we believe is primarily at the heart of those religions is love. so this decision to invite any boy scout troop who has been asked to leave was simply us being who we are. the just a great opportunity to live what we believe. >> pastor easley, do you think you didn't have gay boys and teens in your church before the boy scouts said it's okay to say that uruguay? >> oh, sure, i think it's naive not to think that, and at roswell street baptist, in fact, i was asked last week, would you allow a homosexual in your church? is we invite them. we invite every adulter, fornicator, sinner in our church in order to hear the liberating gospels that sets them free from sin and restores them. >> you're expressing change in the answer to that question. i'd like to know why.

>> at one world, we believe that we are exactly as god created us to be. we welcome everyone to our community. we don't judge who you love any more than we would judge the color of your eyes. so, again, i'm just delighted that we have this opportunity to spread that message of love that i believe was jesus' primary message. love your neighbor as yourself. >> let me follow up on that. do you think what you are spreading, what you are displaying, pastor easley, is love by telling them to get out? is >> i do. >> is how? >> well, because love doesn't condone sin. it confronts it. over and over in scripture, you find sin, not condoned, but confronted. and even jesus on many occasions, when he confronted with sinners, they experienced forgiveness and grace, and then he says, go and sin no more. >> i want to read something that

was posted on your facebook page. we've got it here. we can put it up on the screen. if you're christian and you're against homosexuality, it's not because you're christian. it's because you are homophobic. are you homophobic? >> absolutely not. in fact, we're concerned and burdened for every homosexual, and, again, every liar and adulterer and any sin, any moral sin you want to discuss. >> but you don't kick out liars and adulterers. >> but we're not embracing an outside organization that advocates it. really, frankly, we're not kicking anybody out at the church. >> are they holding meetings there? the troop's not meeting there anymore? >> right. >> is because you told them not to meet there. >> is actuactually, they'll mee through the end of the year. >> right. >> but they won't be allowed once the policy in place? >> correct. >> so you did kick them out? is >> as an outside organization, right. they're not members of our

church. it's just an outside organization that we sponsor, that we open our buildings to. >> there's an obvious contradiction that, if you allow, in your words, you say, you allow homosexuals to be members of your church. >> i did not say that. >> then explain. clarify that. >> i said they're welcome to come to our church. >> but they're not allowed to be members? >> no, they're not allowed to be members, not until they come to terms with their sin, repent of it, and come to jesus as their savior. >> and for more stories on faith, be sure to check out our belief blog at cnn.com/belief. sarah palin is back in the spotlight, speaking at the faith and freedom conference, and in some surprising comments, she's referencing islam. [ male announcer ] in your lifetime,

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a reminder, when getting ready for work tomorrow, turn on cnn. "new day" starts tomorrow at 6:00 a.m. eastern. don't miss it. sarah palin is back in the spotlight and ruffling some feathers. she headlined the faith and freedom coalition. she shot some people. she said, obama shouldn't intervene in syria. >> i say, until we have someone who knows what they're doing, i say let allah sort it out. >> cnn asked her about her political future and if we'll be

seeing more of her this year. >> absolutely. more than ever, we will be out there. as i said in my speech, time's a wasting. things are moving really quickly. if we don't get out there, things will move past us. we will do all we can to make a positive difference. nsa leaders are asserting the government's controversial surveillance program has worked. cnn has obtained examples of the thwarted plot. candy crowley, good morning to you. congressional leaders are saying this is the first of many documents to be declassified. senator feinstein said that detailing the incidents would help to prove its effectiveness. what do you think? is this an attempt to be transparent and silence the critics of the program? >> reporter: i'm not sure it's an attempt to be transparent. this was certainly forced on these two programs by the leak. it certainly is an attempt to say, here's why we're doing

this. these are very broad programs, particularly the ones that capture the information of, honestly, billions of phone calls being made. not the content of the phone calls, but what number was called by what number and how long it went and where it went from the location. so there is that. and it is a big program. and so what nsa is trying to do and what it promised to do friday is show we recognize this is seen as an intrusion, but it's an intrusion that has been worth it, breaking up dozens of terrorist plots before they actually happen. so, obviously, they're trying to show this program is worth it despite some reservations about it. >> okay. so clearly, the snowden leak is what brought all this to light in the first place. they're trying to get ahead of any future leaks? >> reporter: they're hoping.

they're always trying to get ahead of future leaks, obviously. they're trying to make the story die down. by saying, yes, but it's worth it. yes, we understand that this is kind of squeamish stuff for some people. but it has been worth what the sacrifice was, and it's what they've been arguing. they believe, obviously, and we're going to hear more stories of it broke up this plot or that plot. i think we're going to get some specifics this week. we already know because we've been told by mike rogers, the chairman of the intelligence committee, he among others have said the new york subway plot was broken up using these programs. they want to be able to justify it and say, this isn't just some random search of everybody's personal data. this is actually going after terrorism. >> candy crowley, thank you. stay here for "state of the union" with candy crowley, which begins at the top of the hour, 9:00 a.m. eastern, 6:00 a.m. pacific right here on cnn. next we'll turn to father's day and a discussion around this

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biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. [ applause ] biotene -- for people who suffer from dry mouth. it's father's day, time to celebrate dear old dad, but for others it's a complicateded time. 24 million in the u.s. are living in a home without aed d and that's led to some questions about the role of the father. are some children better off without dad, or do we need him there even if he's not the best? to discuss, i'm joined by michelle welden. she's a professor at northwestern university, and she says her kids are much better off without their dad. dr. brad saks. he says, unless fathers are abusive, they absolutely need a role in the lives of their children. michelle, i want to begin with you because you just had an op-ed that was published in the

huffington post about raising your three sons without their dad. in it, you write that, "this isn't about me. this is about the men i raised who will one day be good fathers." there are numerous studies that show a huge disadvantage to a home without two parents, without a father. is your example maybe then make more about you than about a broader experience? >> no. it's not about me at all. first of all, happy father's day to all the fathers out there who are accountable to their families and their children. i celebrate them widely. what my point was is that it is wrong to damn the children who grow up without fathers and to assume there's some sort of predestiny for them that they are doomed to lives of drug abuse and alcohol and criminal behavior and just lives that are less than because they have absent fathers. if we think about it, that

completely disrespects fathers who have died, who have disease or are incapacitated or are away from the home for several years. in my case, there was an elective abandonment of my children, and they are definitely better off in a warm and nurturing home environment with a large support of community and family and friends. >> brad, you advocate for the role of fathers. what's your response to what michelle just said? >> first of all, i commend professor weldon for having raised her children so successfully. the only concern i have sometimes in our culture is we view fathers as a supplement rather than providing crucial psychological ingredients for children. obviously, if a father checks out of a situation, there's not much we can do about that. if a father is abusive in some sort of chronic or severe way, that's not good for a child.

sometimes we inadvertently marginalize or peripheralize fathers and minimize the ways in which they can be crucial, the ways in which they can be significant, and the many, many positive influences they have on children. >> michelle, brad also said that even a flawed father is better than no dad at all. you said that your husband chose not to be there, but if he wanted to, would you have let him? >> oh, absolutely, of course. for the last nine years, he's been absent, moved out of the country with two weeks notice, and completely stopped all contact and support, and i would love to switch the conversation to the children and away from this notion that mothers are vehemently disallowing the influence of fathers when that absolutely is not the case with me and with so many women i know. i would have so appreciated my children's father to have acknowledged their birthdays or their graduations or to have

sent a check. we lived in the same home for 18 years with the same land line, had the same e-mail address for 17 years at the university with no contact, and it is really hurtful, as a mother, to witness what that abandonment does. so to switch this conversation to be this gender fueled fireball about it's mothers not allowing fathers' involvement when we need to acknowledge that sometimes that involvement is deliberately a choice of the father. and that's woefully inadequate, and i believe, immoral. >> let's go ahead and switch gears for a second and talk about the violence in chicago. mayor rahm emanuel said in an interview with "time" magazine that homes without dads are contributing to the violence in that city. brad, do you agree with that? is >> there's no easy algorithm

that explains criminal behavior, but what we do know is the children who are engaged with their fathers tend to have higher levels of empathy, higher levels of pro social behavior, and lower levels of aggression and violence. i don't think you should oversimplify criminal behavior, but the more that fathers are engaged with sons and daughters, the less violence and less aggression you're going to see displayed by children. >> michelle, what is your response? >> my response is that's highly simplistic. first of all, mayor emanuel is highly simplifying the problem in chicago, and there's so many factors, including education and socio and economic factors and opportunity. but the problem i have with the argument that fatherless sons and daughters have less empathy is that i have three living case studies in my home, and i believe that my sons are more empathetic because they know how not to treat someone, and they

know what it feels like to be completely ignored by a parent, completely abandoned in every form. i just have a problem with the narrative being framed around the fathers are the panacea or mothers are evil and not allowing the fathers to be involved. what's best is to have two parents loving their children as best they can and supporting emin every way possible, absolutely, of course. i would have preferred a much better outcome. but we cannot damn the children who are fatherless because, as you said at the top, there are 24 million children in this country that are fatherless, and there is no predetermination of the outcome of their lives. they can be highly successful. >> thanks to michelle weldon and brad sachs for a very interesting discussion. for more stories on dads, head to cnn.com/living. for a discussion of the role of paternity leave and its benefits

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marketers for the new superman movie are hoping to bring the man of steel into the pulpit. they gave free early screenings to dozens of pastors throughout the country. discussion guides from the film were also distributed to churches. some pastors said they see parallels to the christian faith. "man of steel" is a warner brothers film, and just like cnn, is owned by time