he's also been accused, brooke, of extortion of several people. and so i think what is significant about this case, as you mentioned, is the tortured history. because we know that at one point he was even an fbi informant. >> right. >> and then apparently got -- or allegedly got tipped off by an fbi agent. and then he went on the run for almost two decades. and so the fact that he is now facing life in prison is just so significant in the history of the fbi, in the history of these types of federal rico cases. i think one of the reasons why so many people have been watching this case. because it's so unusual in the history. i think it is important, brooke, to mention that bulger is 83 years old. while we've been talking during our coverage about these maximum life sentences, let's be honest. if he is convicted of anything and the judge sentences him to,

let's say, 20 years in prison, we are in, effect, talking about a life sentence. >> that's why so much of this it sounds like it was a reputation, it was a legacy defense for whitey bulger. as you point out, 83 years of ash. i want to bring in ashleigh banfield here who can help in the coverage. ashleigh, as i'm glancing down at some of the tweets from deb feyerick inside the courtroom for us, kevin coltman following this minute by minute for the boston globe tweeting whitey has just taken his seat. whitey's chair just fell over. an oman. ashleigh. >> this is why cameras in courtrooms are so critical. this is real life drama. it's not just drama for spectators. it is drama for those who are affected by these crimes. and the greater society who has had to pay for the prosecution and had to live with the effects of these crimes as well. and what's happening inside that building, brooke, is critical. it spans decades. and why is that so difficult when it comes to a courtroom? think about the memories that

fade over just a couple of years. now over a couple of decades. now over three decades. think about the witnesses who die and can no longer tell their stories. or at least have their voices heard in court. think about those jurors who may be too young to even know what the '70s or the '80s were like, for heaven's sake. they're going through this verdict form that is seven pages long listing 48 different counts. they're not very specific on the verdict pages. so it is taxing their memories over the weeks and weeks that they've had to listen to testimony. it is so taxing to them because each and every one of these counts is critical. and can mean a lot of time for a man they either believe looks a lot like the man that everybody says they think is whitey bulger or absolutely is the man that deserves to go to life -- go to prison for the rest of his life. it is not an easy thing for them to do. especially when this is such a long span of crimes. >> as we look at this and we know -- let me just read. ashleigh, stay with me. we can do this together.

we know deb feyerick is inside the courtroom. let he read some of the color we're getting. the judge inside the courtroom saying you have obviously heard the word we have a verdict in this case. we're in the process of bringing the jurors down for the recording of the verdict. i remind everyone in the gallery that there will be order in the courtroom during the presentation of the verdict and its aftermath. and i think one important point, ashleigh banfield, we should point out, we know that this jury, they've been deliberating ever since last tuesday. but talk about the details, the witnesses that took the stand over two months. look at the numbers. the jury looked at 900 exhibits from 72 witnesses. it's a lot to sort through. >> i'm just going over the stats on this. look, i've covered a lot of trials. phil spector alone was five months long. you can imagine the number of witnesses in that one. prosecutors calmed 63 witnesses. the defense called ten. there were 72, as you mentioned, over 35 days. by the way, those are 35 trial

days. that's not 35 consecutive days. that's a lot of weeks these jurors have been at it. >> let me jump in, ashleigh. we just learned count one, one of the two biggies we're watching, count one, racketeering, conspiracy, guilty. >> wow. >> just getting this in my ear. thank you. count two, guilty as well. so on both of these, guilty. guilty, count 1. racketeering, conspiracy. sentencewise, possible life. count 2, racketeering substantive offense. possible sentence, maximum life. let me try to sort through all of this as we're watching for this. again, we have crews in this courtroom because i know we all want to hear the color of this 82-year-old sitting here, really his legacy. we talk so much about this. has been on the line for him. he's been fighting that he wasn't an fbi informant. fighting some of these, you know, these murder counts. in order to find bulger guilty of count 2 which they have just

done, this was the question, ashleigh, about whether or not it needed to be unanimous or not. the jury did have to be unanimous to find him guilty of the racketeering acts committed with this -- within this ten-year period. so guilty, count one. guilt, count two. i'm going to guess he's going away for a long time. >> yeah. you know, sunny as a former prosecutor would know more about the sentencing guidelines and federal sentences for those two. we're not at those murders yet, either. sunny, what's your knowledge of the sentencing for those two. >> i mean, there's no question he would be exposed to life in prison for either count. if he gets convicted of all of the counts, it's life in prison plus 30 years. but as i was saying before, we're talking about an 83-year-old defendant. so we're really talking about a life sentence regardless of what the judge gives him. i think what's interesting and what will be interesting is if he's found guilty of count 2, which he has been found guilty of count 2, we now find out what the jury agreed on.

because the jury doesn't have to be unanimous as to all of these counts. the racketeering counts. all the murders. they only need to find that he is guilty unanimously of, perhaps, one of the murders. being involved with two of the murders. so that is what's going to be so interesting. because during this case his former accomplices, his former friends, testified against him in gruesome detail about how they either murdered people at his behest with him in the room or that he himself murdered certain people. and so clearly the jury believed many of those mobsters. i've got to tell you, having tried a lot of cases as a federal prosecutor, sometimes juries don't believe the bad guys. sometimes you have a convicted person on the witness stand testifying against a defendant, and they don't find them to be credible because of their past. well, that clearly didn't happen here. i didn't think it was going to

happen but it certainly obviously did not. >> it has been -- in listening to deborah feyerick's reports over the past, you know, month or two, it has been incredibly gruesome. some of what we've heard from the witnesses who have taken the stand. in addition as we keep pointing out, this man is 83 years young. but it has been -- i guess the word will be colorful, the language that has been thrown between the defendant and even people who've been on the stand. we learned a couple of weeks ago one man who had been waiting decades to testify in this -- against whitey bulger was found dead on the side of the road in massachusetts. you also know there have been a number of these victims fall mis who've been waiting in the courtroom to see if justice would be serve. >> some of them even testified against bulger. we heard in the past about that code of silence where you certainly never become a rat.

you don't testify against your own. i think that's what's been so fascinating about this case is that you have people that just testified against their former friend and colleague and basically said this is somebody that i cared about. this is a friend. but this is someone who kbh committed murder and i committed murder with him. so it's just oftentimes in these big cases, these big mafia cases, in organized crime cases, you just don't see them testify against each other the way you did here. in such an emotional way. it really has been fascinating. >> just in case you are joining us, breaking news here in the reputed mob boss whitey bulger, james "whitey" bulger trial. jury has now come back on these two counts. he faces counts 1 through 32. count 1, racketeering, conspiracy, faces up to life. guilty. count 2, racketeering, substantive offense, guilty. we're awaiting deborah feyerick

to pop in front of a camera as soon as these decisions are over. she's sitting, she has been tweeting. i'm going to read some of her tweets. forgive me. i'm just going to pause. tell me again. sunny hostin, i'm being told to go straight to you. go ahead. >> the jury hasn't found him guilty of the first seven or eight murders. however, they have found him guilty of conspireing to kill paul maganagul. guilty of murdering edward connors. also finding him guilty of conspireing to murder thomas king. also another murder charge of thomas king. so what is obviously interesting is that this jury worked very hard. they found him guilty of some of the 19 murders, playing a role in some of the 19 murders, but not all of them. again, as we mentioned, brooke, they did not have to find him unanimously guilty of all of those counts to find him guilty as to count 2. so he still has this significant

exposure of prison time of up to life in prison. >> so in terms of the tick tock, what's happening right now in the courtroom, as i was mentioning, deborah feyerick is in there. we'll hear from deborah. she can give us the play by play as all this is going down as we're talking about it. let me just tell you just according to her tweets, she says she was -- she was tweeting about the judge reading the verdict. james bulger looks at the judge. the verdict is in order. it may be recorded. victim families, this is deb tweeting, victim families have arms around each other. some have heads bowed. they have been waiting 30 to 40 years for justice for their loved ones. the jury was asked to stand. bulger, 83-year-old bulger, standing. have you reached unanimous verdict? yes. folder is then handed to the judge. victims' families. she continues with all these different names. they all want justice. james "whitey" bulger conferring the lawyers. 32 counts, 33 acts. people are holding their breath.

now we're learning what he's facing now with these 32 different counts. and, ashleigh, i guess my question really to you, i go back to these families and thinking about them in this courtroom and in this sense of justice decades in waiting, the sense of justice. how big of a win is this for -- obviously for the families but also for the federal prosecutors in this case? >> well, this man as an ex-con, i'm going to say he's an ex-con because he was already an ex-con. he -- look, he's been on the run for 16 years. so he has flouted authority and justice if, in fact, he's guilty of all of these crimes. we know two, at least. anyway, he has thumbed his nose in the face of justice. when he was found it was just so blatant what he was found with. the money that was stashed in the walls. the weapons. i think a hand grenade was one of the weapons stashed in the walls of the home where he was. the neighbors were astounded. i think for a lot of people there's a reason there's no statute of limitations on murder. there's a reason. the reason is what you're seeing

play out right now in boston. people like whitey bulger ultimately, police like to say and prosecutors like to say and, sunny, i think you'll back me up on this one, you will not escape for long. maybe you've made it on the run. but we will find you and we will get you. this is one of those examples. the only thing is, sunny, i don't know if you have been able to follow. this is why i get so frustrated without cameras in the courtroom, is that i can't say off the bat whether there are appellate issues. i don't know the kind of time that it would take to appeal the sort of issues that arose in this trial. again, we have an 83-year-old man who likely would not get out on parole or on bond. do you know of anything that came up during the litigation of this case that might give him hope that he could at least try to battle this? >> well, look. there are always appellate issues that come up. always appellate issues. for sure he will appeal this case. but in looking at this verdict

and in following this case, i mean, i don't think that there will be anything that is successful in terms of releasing whitey bulger from prison. i mean, he's already been found fwlt of count 1 rb racketeering, conspiracy. he's been found guilty of count 2, the racketeering substantive offense. then there are a bunch of other things he's been found guilty of in connection with count 2. even on appeal, if you challenge one or two of these substantive offenses, you're still dealing with significant amount of time here. so i think, you know, what's also, ashleigh, interesting about this is that you're right. it's so difficult to try these cases 10, 20 years down the line. especially because people's memories fade. they're afraid to testify. some of them have died. and it really is -- >> sunny, not to mention what we see in trials today with 2-year-old murders. you know, evidence that wasn't

treated properly. and maybe it's moldy. that's a 2-year-old murder case where they get away with that kind of an argument let alone evidence that may not exist anymore or was in a police lockup and maybe it was flooded or maybe it disappeared. evidence also corrodes over time, too. >> absolutely. and i think that is why what was so, so powerful and significant in this case is that there were former assassins, former co -- or co-conspirators that testified against him. oftentimes when these people testify, they are cross-examined on their memory. but when you're in the business of killing others in this way, many of them basically said, i didn't forget this. how could i forget this? i've been living with this for my entire life. and so it really is a credit to this prosecution that they were able to secure these witnesses, keep them safe, mind you, and have them testify against him. >> this day means justice for so

many different families. just looking down while you've been talking we now know that the family members are holding hands. they're crying in this courtroom. we're learning a little bit more on the other counts. keep in mind he was facing 32 different counts. ashleigh and sunny, stay with me as we continue to follow this big breaking story. li live pictures from boston as whitey bulger is now learning his fate. stay with me.

welcome back. this is a day many, many family members have been waiting tech ka -- decades to see the fate. the verdict has come down for reputed mob boss james "whitey" bulger. you see all the people awaiting the crush to come out of the federal courtroom which is where we now know the verdict has been read. whitey bulger, the trial has been going on for two months. jury has been deliberating the last five days. they have just reached a verdict in this trial. you see on the screen whitey bulger found guilty. the two counts we are really watching for, these are the counts. he faces possible maximum life in prison. again, we say the caveat, this man is 83 years of age. but the racketeering conspiracy and the racketeering substantive offense, he has been found guilty on both that count 1 and count 2. ashleigh banfield is joining me for this breaking news coverage as is our cnn legal analyst, sunny hostin.

and, listen, this is a lot to sort through. there are a lot of counts. reading -- talking to you, i'm trying to read my tweets to see deborah feyerick tweeting specifically about these murders. i think it's important to go back to that point. sunny, you were mentioning this word "prove." they had to prove or not prove -- he was facing 19 allegations that he killed 19 different people. it sounds like the jury has found -- they have proven that he has in some cases. in some cases not. >> that's right. and what's important to note, and i don't want to get too wonky. because federal rico law can be a bit difficult to explain. but he's already been found guilty of count 1, which is a racketeering conspiracy. he conspired to do certain acts. he was also found guilty of count 2 which is which act? which acts was he found guilty of conspireing to do? federal government only needs to prove two. two acts in furtherance of the conspiracy. they proved a lot of those acts. six of them included murder of

others. six murders in addition to others. but if you look at this verdict sheet altogether, brooke, he was found guilty of 31 out of the 32 counts. this is a complete victory for the government. so not only was he found guilty of more than two predicate acts, when we're talking about count 2. we're talking about 32 counts. he was found guilty of 31. again, a complete victory for this prosecution when many people felt that this was a long shot. because we're talking about crimes that were decades old. >> and this is someone who, you know, many of us have seen. martin scorsese's film "the departed" from a number of years ago. that movie was based upon the life of whitey bulger and these crimes. as you point out, have spanned decades and decades. and one thing i know, sunny and ashleigh, we were both sort of watching as we were watching the trial, would whitey bulger testify? would he take the stand himself?

he never did. sunny, might he testify during the sentencing phase? >> that's a great question. >> i think he should. >> yeah? >> yeah. he certainly didn't get on the witness stand to testify. he called this entire trial a sham and sort of thumbed his nose up at the judge and the jury and the entire system. but we may very well hear from him. we did hear exchanges from him during the testimony. i mean, there were -- one witness he was yelling at the witness. the witness was yelling back at him. so this is certainly not someone that doesn't seem to want to speak. so we may very well hear from him during sentencing. i suspect that could happen. >> looks like we have a date. i'm reading tweets as i'm talking to you. november 13th is the date upon which the judge has set the sentencing. judge is out. so perhaps this means we will hear from deborah feyerick momentarily. we pop her in front of a camera in front of that federal courthouse. let me read this from you as far as color from whitey bulger, the man himself.

bulger betrayed no emotion during the reading of the verdict. his brother entered court late after first guilty verdict had been read. so sort of juxtapose this -- this, you know, lack of emotion in this man who now faces life behind bars. and then you have these victims' family members who, according to folks we have in the courtroom, have been crying and now believe justice has been served. ashleigh, what else as we're watching this together, what else jumps out at you? >> well, for one thing, look, murder is devastating. and when you have multiple murders and you're one of many families, it's your case that you're most devastated about. so the task for this jury to look through each and every one of these extraordinarily old and difficult to prove murders, the task for this jury was almost insurmountable. and so for them to have a no finding on one of them, well, that's devastating to the family of that murder victim.

overall is it going to make a difference in terms of what happens to whitey bulger? not a lick. not a lick at all. but what you're looking at here isor vengeance or justice, murder is a personal thing. it's why people are fascinated by it, but may not cry upon a verdict. family members, on the other hand, are devastated by it. because it's their person. it's their murder. it's their personal count. one thing i wanted to ask sunny about was why no murder charges? was it just easier to go rico? was it easier to say racketeering. racketeering was one of those things in the '70s prosecutors and lawmakers said, hell, this is so hard to get these guys let's get the book and throw it at him in one offense. is that why they did rico with whitey? >> no. in fact, rico charges are very difficult to prove. one of my legal professors, i was his research assistant, he wrote the statute. it's very difficult to parse through. listen, murder has a -- on the state level, it was the statute

of limitation my understanding is had run on a couple of these cases. and also if you go state by state, very difficult to prove because of witnesses dying, witnesses not being -- evidence being destroyed. and so i think the government decided they were going to try the case that was the strongest. and in a case like this, when really it's truly racketeering, you're talking about organized crime, this was the appropriate, appropriate charge. >> with underlying murders. now you totally lost me, though. i've always been under the impression that this was the tool that finally could bring down the mob because it was so hard to pin the murders on them. but when you get racketeering influenced corruption organization, i think i've got my eds and ss wrong. when you have all of those options it's almost like murder conspiracy. any spoke in the wheel is going to get you. i always thought the racketeering was the easier way to get at them. >> let me hit pause on this

conversation for just a moment. we have to get a quick break in. we will come right back to that point, ashleigh banfield, sunny hostin, stay with me. all of you tand with me as we are awaiting our correspondent to come out of the courtroom. she can walk us through exactly what happened in the last few moments in this trial as the verdict was read for mob boss james "whitey" bulger. back after this. peace of mind is important when you're running a business. century link provides reliable it services like multi-layered security solution to keep your information safe & secure. century link. your link with what's next.

all right. breaking news. we've been all over this whitey bulger verdict. we will come back to boston as soon as we get our correspondent out of that federal courthouse and in front of a camera as we await deborah feyerick. she can tell us and talk us through the emotions inside this federal courtroom as we have now learned whitey bulger has been found guilty of 31 of the 32 counts against him. we're going to come back to boston here momentarily. let me tell you about this. did you know that our prisons cost us $80 billion a year? here in the land of the free we have 5% of the world's population, but nearly 25% of the world's inmate population. so we are the clear number one. back in 2010 we had 2.2 million

prisoners. blowing away human rights abuser china. even with its gulags, russia can't even touch us. look at these numbers. not even close. is it the people, us, or the system? just a short time ago the attorney general said we've got to change something. >> we will start by fundamentally rethinking the notion of mandatory minimum sentences for drug-related crimes. [ applause ] some statutes that mandate inflexible sentences, and this is regardless of the individual conduct that is at issue in a particular case, reduce the discretion available to prosecutors, judges and to juries. because they oftentimes generate unfairly long sentences. they breed disrespect for the system. >> that is eric holder announcing just last hour a

long-term prison reform package designed to reduce the number of inmates and save some money that we spend to feed and to house them. as you heard him say, it all starts with these strict sentencing guidelines authored way back when in washington that a lot of folks believed were just quite simply overly harsh and grossly unfair. evan perez. welcome to cnn. our new justice correspondent. talk me through this plan. how does this work? >> well, it's basically -- holder is is basically announcing a plan in which they're going to use prosecutorial discretion, essentially. in the case of someone who is, for example, being charged with trafficking, say, five kilograms of cocaine, they might not mention that in the charging documents. instead in that way they can avoid, for example, a ten-year minimum. which is what you would have for five kilos.

there's some conditions on all this. for example, it has to be nonviolent. you can't have been dealing to children, for instance. you can't have been selling drugs to children. and there can't be any guns involved. so there are -- there are some conditions. i think the justice department feels that if you do this, then fewer people will be heading to federal prison. they'll be going to drug court, for instance. or perhaps getting ankle bracelets, gps ankle bracelets. that is a better way and a cheaper way to deal with this. >> mm-hmm. which saves us money as we mentioned. $80 billion spent in 2010 alone. evan, thank you very much. let me bring back my legal ladies, ashleigh banfield and sunny hostin. ashleigh, you've read through all this. you listened to the attorney general. how big of a deal is this? >> well, i love that the attorney general eric holder said rethinking, not redoing. because what that says to me, brooke, is the legislature has passed the law. congress passed the laws. they worded the laws. they made these mandatory

minimums part of the laws. i'm going around that. now i'm rethinking. not redoing. what it means basically as evan just said, he's telling his federal prosecutors across the country, stop writing in the amount of dope that your guy was caught with. because it triggers the minimums. it triggers those mandatory minimums. now basically the only thing that's changing here is behavior, not law. prosecutors are going to stop doing certain things when they write up that indictment that could make it really awful for, say, a first-time offender, a nonviolent offender, a person who has no idea what a cartel is, but yet got caught with heroin and maybe kind of more than he or she should have. so it's that option to try to take those people out of our prison sentence and spend money on them when we are bursting at the seams. >> i guess, sunny, my other question on the flip side, if you take away some of these federal guidelines, would this then lead to huge disparities

with state laws? >> i don't think so. i mean, i think that this has been a long time coming, in the making. federal prosecutors and federal judges, quite frankly, have for many, many years been upset with the federal sentencing guidelines because it really takes your discretion away from you both as a prosecutor and as a judge. our discretion should be with judges. so i think you'll find in certain states that they have -- they haven't had sort of these mandatory minimums. and crime has -- people have been appropriately sentenced. and so i think, one, this is the right thing to do. two, certainly it's being done all over our country on the state level. and why shouldn't the federal level catch up? and i think to ashleigh's point about sort of this go around of congress, that's exactly what i see this as. we know that there's been such a log jam in congress when it comes to changes in legislation. and i think the attorney general

as part of his legacy wants to address the federal sentencing guidelines in large part because of his practical experience as the u.s. attorney of d.c. where i was an assistant u.s. attorney. he knows because of d.c. it's not a state, so you practice federal and local law. you prosecute these low-level offenders and you see the ramifications of women who have been girlfriends of drug tealdes being put in jail for ten years because they mailed a package. or children would mothers and without fathers systematically being orphaned, almost, by the system. i think this is -- decision has been really informed by eric holder's real prosecutorial experience at the d.c. u.s. attorney's office. and this is a good thing for the u.s. attorney's offices. >> from what i can tell with this prosecutorial discretion and not necessarily, i guess, having to go through congress, it also just this whole idea behind it has bipartisan support. so as this continues to go through, sunny, i want to

ping-pong back to you, actually, just as a new yorker. big ruling today. we've talked about this on this show. the new york judge ruling that the stop and frisk is unconstitutional. were you expecting that? >> i was expecting that. no question about it. we know this judge held hearings on this. had some pretty harsh words for the new york police department. but what i think we need to make clear, brooke, when we look at her order, and i've been looking at it. it's about 198 pages. >> whoa. >> she makes it very, very clear that she's not saying that stop and frisk is out lawed in the land or outlawed in new york. because the supreme court has found that stop and frisk is okay if done constitutionally. what she's saying is the new york police department got it wrong. they aren't just stopping people based on reasonable suspicion. they're stopping african-americans and latinos at a rate so -- so disparate to

others. and they are stopping them, perhaps, just because they're african-american and they're latino. so there's a real component of racial profiling, she said, took part in this. and that is a violation of your constitutional rights, your fourth amendment rights, your 14th amendment rights. so this is a sweeping indictment of the new york police department's stop and frisk policy. >> there's another side to this. >> go ahead, ashleigh. what? >> yeah. i mean, sunny, my concern very much is for the victims of these crimes. and the nypd came into this court case saying, we go to areas that are high crime. and we fight the crime there. the fact that they overlay with high populations of black and hispanic people means that just by design, we will be stopping and frisking more people who are in that community. and what they said was that there are an extraordinary and inordinate number of black and

hispanic victims of these crimes as well. they cited a number of statistics that show the crime rates have dropped. guns have gotten out on the streets. yes, nine of the ten who have been stopped have been black or h hispanic. those numbers sound horrifying. sunny, i don't know what the monitor can do. my fear is that it's -- what happens if the nypd just can't function anymore and they have to pull back from those communities that so desperately do need the crime fighting? >> i think the arguments that were made by the new york police department during the hearings were quite disingenuous, quite frankly. certainly, you can still, again, conduct stop and frisk. based on a reasonable suspicion. you just can't stop anyone because they are african-american or because they are latino. and so, yes, if you are policing these areas that are predominantly african-american or predominantly latino, that doesn't mean that their constitutional rights get kicked

out of the door. or out of the window. what that means is, if you find there's a reasonable suspicion, this is someone who you see dealing drugs. this is someone you see making a furtive movement towards a gun. this is someone that you see using all the sort of the indicia that police officers use to properly stop people, you can still do that. you can't do what the new york police department tid which is because you're black or hispanic, i'm going to stop you. >> sunny hostin, ashleigh banfield, stay with me. we will be right back. quick break. we are back on the whitey bulger story. as we've been reporting, he has been found guilty. we are awaiting our correspondent to pop out of that courtroom and give us a little bit of color as far as how this verdict was read, the reactions among victims' family members inside this courtroom, and of course that of the reputed mob boss himself, whitey bulger. be right back. tool, our price" you tell us what you want to pay, and we give you a range of coverages to choose from. who is she? that's flobot. she's this new robot we're trying out, mostly for, like, small stuff.

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[off screen] bye, guys. bye. see ya. oh my god! every day, more people connect face to face on the iphone than any other phone. i miss you. vo:remember to changew that oil is the it on schedule toy car. keep your car healthy. show your car a little love with an oil change starting at $19.95. want to take you back to boston and our breaking news. before i explain -- before we listen to this man, whitey bulger was accused in the deaths of 19 people. one of those individuals a woman by the name of debbie davis. so the jury had to go through each of these accusations. they did not find enough evidence to tie whitey bulger to debbie davis's death. that is this man's sister.

let's dip in. >> he's not going to see the street and i think it's to his benefit. >> the other day when we talked to you -- [ inaudible question ] >> honestly, i told him if i ever needed him, could i get a discount. and i said he did a good job. and he said the first one's on him. so it's -- i congratulated him. he gave up a good fight. it's just like when you see a fighting match. two guys pouncing on each other. at the end of the fight, they're shaking each other's hands. they're going out for a drink. you know, he put up a good fight. he's a good attorney. i'd hire him in a second. >> whitey bulger is now a convicted murderer. you can finally speak your mind. what would you like to have said

despite that you don't have justice today? >> why? you know, just the whys. he had everything anybody in this whole audience would want. he had the money. he had enough money to live on an island somewhere by himself. and he chose -- it was greed. he should have stopped when selfish greed set in. i just -- what i would say to him, you know, when is enough enough? you know what i mean? >> how do you feel about the fact that -- >> when is enough enough? the words of a brother who lost his sister some years ago. debbie davis. she was one of the 19 that whitey bulger was accused of killing, but as i just reported, the jury found in his sister's case not enough evidence to link bulger to her death. ashleigh banfield rejoining me. to your point earlier, when it comes to these different murder

charges, obviously this is incredibly, incredibly personal for these families. >> it is everything that this brother has been thinking since he became one of that terrible club that never wants to convene. family members of murder victims. you heard him say -- in fact, i'm not sure. it might have been right before the break before we went live. but, brooke, he said, no, it's not good enough that there was no finding on my sister. i want to take this to the state level. there's no federal murder statute. you know what? on the state level that's what he wants. he wants justice for his sister's murder. the guy's going away. he's never getting out for his lifetime. but it is not good enough for that personal link to justice. >> ashleigh, thank you. you see on the right hand side of your screen an incredible crush of med ya here reporting on this story. the 31 of the 32 guilty counts for james "whitey" bulger. deborah feyerick has been tweeting, has been inside this

federal courthouse there in boston. she is now out. she is joining us live. deb feyerick, take me back to the very beginning inside this courtroom when the verdict was read. >> reporter: well, i'll tell you, the families were really ready for a verdict. they've been waiting for five days to hear what the verdict found in connection with their loved ones, who they believe whitey bulger killed. but in the end this was so mixed. you could just feel the emotion in that courtroom. 11 people, 11 of the victims, it was found were murdered by whitey bulger. that he had some role, whether as a principal, a co-conspirator, whether he aided and abetted. but there were seven families who have no resolution. the jury simply could not find enough evidence that, in fact, bulger was involved. the ruling of one person, steve davis, as you heard, you were talking just now. well, there was no finding in his sister's case which means they simply could not find enough evidence either way that, in fact, he was involved or he wasn't involved. you had families who were

hugging each other. those who -- who it was found there wasn't enough evidence, they were in a state of disbelief. several of them cried. those whose family members were found to have been murdered by bulger or his gang, well, they also cried. it was just -- it was so mixed. it was unlike anything i've ever seen because they weren't -- he wasn't accused, he wasn't charged with murder. he was charged with supporting acts of being involved in the murders. so for these families, you know, one woman whose father, she was in this court representing her father, and she said to me, this was so painful. prosecutors had approached her. sh they had subpoenaed her. gotten information from her so her dad's name could be counted as one of those bulger was involved in killing and she has no resolution. she was beside herself. she just didn't know what to do or even how to handle it. because, she said, i wish they had just left me alone so she wouldn't have to be dragged through this.

whitey bulger. he sat there. he didn't say anything. he didn't betray any emotion. his brother was in the courtroom with him. the only sort of real outburst that we heard was one of the -- the daughters, the grown daughters of a murder victim. she basically repeated something that bulger had been recorded on audiotape saying. when whitey bulger was in prison, he described the murder of her dad, eddie connors, going rat a tat tat. that's how he died. she yelled that out as he was leaving. rat a tat tat, whitey. right now he has been found guilty on 31 of the 32 counts. that doesn't give some of these families any peace of mind whatsoever. he may be going to prison for the rest of his life. but for them what it means is that the deaths of their fathers are still cold cases. unsolved. brooke? >> and as we talk about whitey bulger, the fact that he's 83 years of age, who knows what the rest of his life in prison, how many years that may entail. but, deb, you've talked about this. this a man who is small in

stature, looms large, i know, in this courtroom. so much of this defense was about his legacy. >> reporter: yeah. absolutely. that's really what his lawyers were fighting for. in fact, look, the longer this jury took to return a verdict, really it gave his own defense lawyers a sense that they had done the job that they were hired to do. that was cast doubt on some of the things that he was charged with. so that the jury didn't rule unanimously on all of the counts in terms of those acts that we were talking about. they did on the 31 counts, they did. but, yeah, this was something, you know, i think they didn't expect. look, whitey bulger was fighting for his reputation, was fighting for his legacy. brooke, you remember. you and i were here in 2011 when whitey bulger -- we were live, do you remember, when they brought whitey bulger into this courtroom. now this verdict has been rendered against him. he's going to turn 84 in just a couple of weeks. he is going to spend the rest of

his life imprisoned, likely in solitary confinement. you know, he wanted to be portrayed as somebody who didn't kill women. in fact, the jury found enough evidence that, yes, in fact he did kill one of the women. so that was one of the key sticking points in his mind. as i sat there listening to this testimony, you know, you think about john gotti. some of these old time mafia dons. whitey bulger never reached that status. whitey bulger, listening to all that evidence that was presented, was a killer, was a gangster. the only way he knew how to make money was to put guns in people's mouth and threaten them, extort them, or otherwise simply kill them. that's what you heard over and over again. just this sort of small gang that he had and how cruel and how murderous and treacherous they were. there was no hierarchy. they decided somebody wanted to die -- or needed to die, they killed him. that's what they did.

they decided they wanted 200 grand. they made up these bogus arguments over property lines and stuck a gun in a man's mouth and demanded $200,000. somebody wanted to get out of the business? fine. give us half a million. you're out. we won't kill you. it was just crazy. listening to all of this over seven weeks. >> and he goes away and he hides for 16 years. and they finally found him just in 2011. incredible when that broke in santa monica. deborah feyerick, thank you so, so much for your reports. for your tweets as well. we were living through that and trying to sort of connect the dots as far as what might have been happening in that courtroom. deb, thank you very much. the sentencing will be set, the sentencing hearing, i should say, november 13th. and the big question, of course, then will be will he testify. deborah feyerick, thank you. quick break. back after this. [ female announcer ] when you asked us to remove high fructose corn syrup from yoplait original and light, we were like, "sure. no problem!" and you were like, "thanks, but what about thick & creamy and whips!" and we were like, "done and done! now it's out of everything yoplait makes." and you were all, "yum!"

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all right. happening soon, the father of hannah anderson is expected to speak in just a couple of hours.

just about 2 1/2 hours from now. stay with cnn for that. hannah's rescue has the nation praising the amber alert system and four horseback riders. two couples from idaho used to the nature and backwoods of that state picked up just how their word was unnatural a man and teenage girl seemed when they came across the pair on a mountain trail. it was a chance meeting that led to hannah anderson's rescue. >> our baby girl! oh, my god! i'm so glad she's safe! >> me, too. >> just didn't fit that country. they -- they was out of place completely. they weren't dressed for the country or the area. and then as we rode further on, we encountered the tent that they had set up, which was

totally out of place. it was way on top of a mountain. looked like it was -- would make a real good lightning rod. so we was discussing the fact that they didn't fit there. that something was wrong. >> something didn't fit, he says. hannah's alleged kidnapper james dimaggio was shot and killed just on saturday. the fbi says the kidnapper shot at them at least once. san diego county authorities say on august 3rd he took hannah after he murdered her brother and mother. and now we're learning that during the week in her captivity, hannah did not know she lost half her family. reportedly, she has been told now. let me bring in stacy kaiser, psychotherapist, to talk a little bit about what she must be going through here. stacy, i can't help but think here, her life has absolutely been spared, saved by these, you know, folks on horseback. but at the same time, to wrap your head then around the fact that you've lost your brother and your mother.

how do you cope with that? >> you know, there are so many layers to what is going on with that young girl right now. because at the same time that she is relieved that she is safe, she's got to be suffering from what we call survivor's guilt. which is that feeling of why was she spared. what could she have possibly done to hopefully have kept them alive? all of those things are going through her mind. what's going to have to happen for hannah is she's going to need long-term counseling because there's going to be nightmares, anxiety, depression. she's going to have a hard time trusting people. she's also going to have to have really solid support from close family and friends. you know, she's known him for a really long time. that's part of what makes this challenging for her. because she felt close to him. even though there was that discomfort, he was part of the family. so it makes you suspicious of literally everyone you know. >> we wish her well. we wish her, you know, hope and positivity going forward. then you have this story, we've learned about this, about this

suspect, james dimaggio. turns out his father committed a similar crime. so the suspect's own father held a 16-year-old daughter of his ex-girlfriend at gunpoint back in 199. our affiliate kfmb actually spoke with the daughter, keeping her identity concealed. >> i don't believe that you're born this way, but really, to follow such a path as your father. it was almost deja vu. it was weird. >> so -- and then you have james dimaggio and a 16-year-old. is this some kind of learned behavior from the father? >> i think there is a good chance it's learned behavior. you know, as a psychotherapist we look at patterns of behavior all the time. we say that people whose parents were addicts often become addicts. abusers, people who have been abused often become abusers. it makes total sense to me as unusual it sounds that he would repeat the same pattern as his father. >> stacy kaiser, thank you very much for joining me.

coming up next, we're going to go back to boston. more on the whitey bulger verdict including his reaction when the verdict was read inside that federal courthouse last hour. stay with me. sterone could affect sex drive, but not energy or even my mood. that's when i talked with my doctor. he gave me some blood tests... showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% testosterone gel. the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure. men with breast cancer or who have or might have prostate cancer, and women who are or may become pregnant or are breast-feeding, should not use androgel. serious side effects include worsening of an enlarged prostate, possible increased risk of prostate cancer, lower sperm count, swelling of ankles, feet, or body,

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daddy! you're not just looking for a house. you're looking for a place for your life to happen. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com big breaking news out of boston today. a jury has found james "whitey" bulger guilty. a jury in boston convicted the former crime boss guilty of 31 out of the 32 federal counts he faced including racketeering, conspiracy and involvement with a number of murders. deborah feyerick was inside that courtroom. she joins us now live in boston. let's just begin with that initial reaction, deb, when that verdict came down. family members were in there. obviously whitey bulger was in there. what happened? >> whitey bulger was in there. he walked in as he did every day, looked for family members who usually sit in the front row.

only his niece was there. he turned, sat very stoically. he watched as the judge read the verdict privately to herself. and then he stood as that verdict was read. he was found guilty of 31 of the 32 counts, including racketeering, extortion, money laundering, and weapons charges. but what was so fascinating was when it came time to go over the 19 murders, for some of the families, there was finally a sense of justice. for other family members, there was not. the jury found that evidence showed that he was involved in at least 11 of the murders. that was a unanimous decision they had to return. but in seven of the murders, they said there simply wasn't enough evidence to show that bulger had either acted on his own, was a co-conspirator, or aided and abetted. what's so fascinating is that testimony was government's eyewitnesses. his former henchmen whoger had e in this and bulger had a role in

that. apparently the jury did not believe all of that tetimony from these convicted felons. seven family members did not get any sort of resolution. one in the case of the debra davis, the 26-year-old girlfriend of bulger's crime partner. the jury couldn't make any finding at all. they simply kocouldn't find whether or not, in fact, bulger was involved or not involved. you have this really strange sense in that courtroom as some of the family members clenched their fists, yes, yes. and others simply bowed their head and looked at their laps and began to cry. it was so emotional, brooke. it was something just looking at those who got justice and those who didn't and just sitting there almost stunned as really many of the family members were, brooke. >> you mentioned debbie davis. she was one of the few who the jury couldn't find any kind of evidence here in connection between james "whitey" bulger and that death. as you mentioned we heard from her brother, steven davis just a few minutes ago outside that

courthouse. let's watch that. >> steven davis having a tough time finding words. deborah feyerick is with me. ashleigh banfield as well. ashley, i think, really to your point, deborah's reporting that of these 19 killings, they found that he had a role in 11. families such as the davises not getting that -- that justice that they so badly craved.

>> no. you know what? you can feel in his dna what he's been suffering through. and he was hoping for the resolution to that. that justice. it never goes away. you never get closure. but justice goes a long way to easing some of that torture that these family members go through. and, you know, when he could speak to the press, brooke, he said it isn't over. i'm going state side. i'm going to the state level to see if i can get a state murder prosecution. and he might. here's the problem. if this jury came to no finding, then there's a pretty good chance the evidence in his sister's death is frayed and old and memories are gone and witnesses are dead. that is often the case with these very old prosecutions. sometimes you can get that conviction and sometimes you just can't. >> ashleigh banfield, teb rdebo feyerick, thank you so much. i want to bring in sunny hostin,

danny cevalas. danny, i want to start with you beginning with this sense of justice and maybe being able to prosecute this on the state level. i know oklahoma and florida specifically may want to bring charges against him. you know, these are states with the death penalty. how likely is that, danny? >> well, it's up to each individual state. they operate -- there is no double jeopardy prohibition because the federal government and the state governments are separate sovereigns for purposes of these charges. so if they decide to, they are not bound in any way by the federal -- by the federal court's decision here. they can choose to prosecute him under their own separate law. so whether or not they will or not is entirely up to them. they can choose to do so. the family may find justice in another state for that reason. >> sunny, as we pointed out, you know, in watching this trial play out for the last two months there in boston, we know that whitey bulger himself never testified. there is a possibility, we now know that sentencing hearing

date is septembt for november 1. what would be to white bulger's advantage to have him speak during that time? >> he's looking at by my count life in prison. he's already 83 years old. and so you would think that perhaps a judge would perhaps give him some leniency if he spoke and atoned for his crime. and that's usually why a defendant speaks. but this defendant in particular, given all of the allegations, given the convictions of 31 out of 32 counts, i suspect his fate has already been written. so, you know, will he -- he speak? will he not? i don't know that if he speaks it will help him. i will say this. what we will be seeing, i think, at the sentencing are all these family members talking about what these crimes have done to their family. and i think that is really what

the judge will be listening for. because we know that these families, brooke, were in the courtroom almost every day, some of them. and as we just mentioned, some of them feel that they didn't get justice. >> sunny and danny, thank you very much. i'm actually just getting word whitey bulger's attorney is speaking now. here he is outside the federal courthouse. let's listen to that. >> we thought we were going to expose a little bit of government corruption. little did we think that the government would expose more corruption than we ever could have. during that time from the bottom all the way to the top, you saw the government bring out witnesses that had deals. life. money. and so at some point hopefully this case is the beginning where people reflect a little bit on our government. ask our government questions about what happened and why. and look into why it's still going on today.

[ inaudible question ] >> jim boulger was very pleased at how the trial went and even pleased by the outcome. i don't think he expected that nine times the jury would come back and say not guilty or not proven. it was important to him that the government corruption be exposed. and important to him that people see firsthand the deals that the government was able to make with certain people. with that, as what he was looking for from a trial, he's very pleased. >> but he called it a sham. didn't he call it a sham? >> he has a strong feeling that he should have been able to present his defense. but presenting his immunity defense was only one of his goals in this trial.

it's rare that you can achieve all of your goals. so the fact that he was able to highlight the corruption that he was in the middle of as well as the corrupt, obscene deals made with certain witnesses should be something that informs all the citizens about what happens behind the scenes in a federal prosecution. >> there was no finding in the killing of debra davis. no finding. what do you get from that? if bulger didn't kill debra davis or there's no finding in that regard, what do you think happened? >> jay carney and i were very pleased at the diligence of the jury, how they paid such attention throughout the trial. even some of the parts of the trial that were difficult and sometimes even boring. the amount of time they spent reflecting in deliberation shows that this jury was the best group of people to make the

decision regarding the verdict. the government pinned their hopes on these predicate offenses in many cases upon witnesses who we thought had an absolute lack of credibility, an extraordinary motive to lie, and were not guides that a reasonable person could follow to help find a conviction. to ask a public or a jury to trust in whole witnesses that had such promises and inducements and such motives to lie, in some ways that's reflected itself in the verdict. >> this has been fascinating as we've been listening to the defense co-counsel who obviously have been defending james "whitey" bulger through this whole thing. to hear the one word that jumped out at me, saying that he is pleased. he is pleased with the jury's finding is absolutely fascinating. they have found him guilty on 31 of the 32 counts he was facing. i want to bring in another

voice. she knows a lot about whitey bulger. phyllis caris is on the phone. she authored books about him. including her latest "where is whitey?" phyllis, just when you heard guilty on those major, may wror counts, your reaction? >> well, it was just a relief to think that the jury believed these witnesses. and that, you know, 11 out of 19, they proved murders. that was extraordinary. that was hope that that was exactly what was going to happen. when kevin and i wrote the book, it was mainly three murders he discussed in the book. all three of those did come through as proven. that was kind of a relief to me that they believed kevin weeks's testimony on that.

t debra davis, there was so much belief it was steven flemmi who tid that murder, it was almost to be expected. to hear these gruesome details, we depicted all three of those murders in the book. it was painful to write it. never mind the families of these victims to have to hear it. it is a relief he was convicted of 11 of 19 of those. he'll absolutely be going to jail for the rest of his life unless they decide to try him in, you know, florida where there's a death penalty. but at this point, a sense of relief that it's almost over. >> that's right. florida, possibly oklahoma as well. we'll see what happens on the state level, phyllis. >> especially with the wheeler case which they did prove. >> exactly. but bigger picture, can you just remind all of us, i remember when the story broke, remember he was found. the fbi put the big billboard up of the girlfriend, santa monica. there they were with hundreds o thousands of dollars of cash stashed in this apartment. now here we are. what is the legacy?

what is his imprint, if you will, on just this world that he lived in? >> there's still so many questions. there were only so many hard to believe he was this santa monica all those years when he had spent so many of his years of his life setting up to be on the run. when we wrote "where's whitey" we wrote what we think he had been doing all those years. to think he was in an apartment in santa monica with the money in the walls and books written about him in the bookcases, it sounds so hard to believe. but that's the story. and that seems to be what has actually happened. i think it was a shock when i got the phone call that he had been found and could not believe it. especially when he was found two days after we published a book called "where's whitey?" there's questions and there will always be questions about exactly how he survived for so long and what went on all those years in boston.

>> the chapters have not been finished being written yet as we know he has a sentencing hearing in november. we'll see what twists and turns that may take. phyllis karas, thanks so much. coming up next, totally switching gears. swallowed up by the earth. aerial footage of a 50-foot sink hole. ripped apart a resort by walt disney world. this whole condo complex. we just got video showing some of the walls crumbling. we'll share that next.

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what's your policy? saving time by booking an appointment online, even smarter. online scheduling. available now at meineke.com. some absolutely terrifying moments for dozens of guests at a resort near florida's disney world. watch this. a giant sink hole 60 # feet wide just opened up under this resort. you have one of the three-story buildings just began to collapse, sending guests scrambling to safety. just about three dozen people were able to make it out before this building crumbled. and amazingly, no injuries reported. >> one person had to break out of a window because the door frame collapsed. him and his wife and an infant,

he had to break the window just so they could escape. then there were windows breaking everywhere. one of the security guards ran up and was evacuating people, barging into their rooms. >> maggie ghamry. there she was. she was at this resort or in the area when the hole opened up. she's joining me on the phone from orlando. also joining me, chad myers. because i want you to talk to maggie and explain what's going on with florida. we'll get to that in a minute. maggie, i understand you weren't actually in the building that collapsed but you were next door. what tdid you see and hear? >> actually, we were in the building. we were in 104. building 104, room 104. our room is under ground 50 feet. we were in the kiddy pool. i had my purse inside. i left to go grab some chinese food. walking back into our room that's when the banging and all

the windows started to explode. i pulled my friend and her kids to jump into the front seat. i thought somebody was firing a gun, breaking in a window, there was an altercation. so we high tailed it with all the kids sitting in the front seat to the security guard. i told him i think building 104, there's a crime being committed. they said, yes, ma'am, we've got some maintenance on the site. the building is collapsing. obvious of course, we were in disbelief. reraced back to see if we could salvage any of our belongings. we arrived just yesterday at 5:00. >> magmaggie, i don't know if anybody out there knows this. 17 claims of sink holes per day in florida over the past ten years. i owned a home two miles, two miles from where this collapsed about three or four years ago. i sold it. i don't have it anymore. i never realized how much sink was going on in florida. did they tell you when you checked in, you know how there's always a sign, if a fire, go

here. if a tornado, go here. was there any kind of a sign that said if a sink hole, go here? >> you know, no. there was plenty mention of a timeshare presentation. but no warnings for sink holes. i never even knew what it meant to be a sink hole. i've heard of it. but i never understood the phenomenon in full until yesterday. >> where are you right now? >> we're actually at the clubhouse of this resort. we're still being funneled through the system. we still don't have a place to stay. went from a two-bedroom villa. >> is the city booked? can't even get a hotel room to stay and go to disney? >> no. actually, last night we got into a hotel room about 4:00 in the morning. and the hot water wasn't working. we were checked out this morning by 11:00. now we went to red cross. they gave us a card for food and clothing, but it's not activated

yet. now we've itemized all of our belongings that were destroyed. and we're waiting to see where they're going to put us, on this resort or at another resort. we were told these villas are kind of bottom of the barrel of this resort. anything we get will be an upgrade. but unfortunately -- yeah. unfortunately there's a lot of frustrated folks here with their kids and elderly parents. it's just -- pretty unbelievable. >> they need to bring mickey and cinderella and ariel all to you all. maggie, we wish you well. we hope you can salvage some of this time with you and your family. chad, back to you. we've been reporting these stories. why do they keep happening in florida? what is it about the terrain? >> below florida is a layer of limestone. that's a rock. but the acid rain that's going through the soil into the limestone is dissolving the lime, dissolving the calcium. when that happens you get a

bridge under the house or the road, whatever it might be. when this acid rains through and gets into this limestone there becomes a hollow under here. that hollow begins thin enough, everything falls in. that's where the sink hole happened. there have been some sink holes on property of disney. there is not on disney property. a couple miles to the west. here's downtown disney right there. the sink hole maybe four or five miles west of there in lake county. the summer bay resort right through here. my house was three mimes southeast of there. if you look at that. look at that. look at that right there. those were all old sink holes. look at disney. pretty good piece of property. there are some sink holes. but this is a more sandy soil. back out to the west just a few miles, a clay soil. so the sink homles are out ther, the very volatile ones. things do sink in florida. if it goes down a foot a week, that's okay. eight feet in an hour, that's the ones you really have to get away from, brooke. >> you feel for her and those kids. in the kiddy pool with their

chinese food and here comes a sink hole. chad, thank you very much. coming up after the break, we have just secured an interview with the brother standing outside of that boston federal courthouse who was very emotional, very choked up and trying to find the words. it was his sister who the jury couldn't find a connection, couldn't find evidence as far as whether or not whitey bulger had killed her. he will yoin me live frjoin me boston, next. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. [ driver ] and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights. my ambulance talks with smoke alarms and pilots and stadiums. but, of course, it's a good listener too. [ female announcer ] today cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everything works like never before.

back to our breaking news here as we have learned today james "whitey bulger," mob boss james "whitey" bulger found guilty of 31 of the 32 counts he faced. he was accused of killing 19 people. the jury today ruled he was linked to killing 11 of th. not included in that 11 is a woman by the name of debbie davis. her brother, steven davis is joining me live in boston to walk through what i'm sure, sir, has been an emotional day for

you. steven, if you can, just tell me, how are you doing? >> a little upsetting. a little upsetting. but i'm just trying to figure out how the nf, which was no finding, what that means. the final verdict on it, i didn't like it. because i don't understand it. because everything else was guilty. you know, and not guilty. and then my sister's case came up and that was no finding. and it's a hard -- it's hard to digest with all the years since '81. i've been looking for answers, searching for answers, and i

come out with an nf. and it's not good enough. i mean, personally in my heart, i do not believe that he physically murdered her. but i do believe he conspired or was partnershipped with that murder. and i feel the same way i did back in '81. i have no justice. no -- i don't know. >> mr. davis, if i may just jump in. and so everyone sort of understands your sister's story. so from what i understand, she was -- she was a teenager. she was 17 when she met and did she begin dating one of whitey bulger's associates? and then some years later, just disappeared?

>> yes. and that's the feelings i'm dealing with over the years. and i guess if i don't get resolution to this whole thing, i feel i'm going to take that to the grave. and i don't feel i deserve to do that. i put up a big fight for justice, for answers. some people say closure. i don't believe in closure. but i believe that i deserve more than an nf. and i'm disappointed. and i do want to say that i do not believe, i don't care who gets mad at me for what i believe and what i feel, because i went through the whole case from the beginning, i don't believe that he hands on, physically murdered her.

i believe he had no problem with talking about the 18 or 19 murders. i don't believe he murdered debra hussy. >> mr. davis, were you inside the courtroom when the verdict was read? were you in there with whitey bulger? >> yes, i was. and i had to leave for a minute. a couple of minutes. because of -- i had my wife pulling at my pants, you know, to keep me from standing. i wanted to say something. and then i do want the chance and the opportunity to give an impact statement. and i don't want to lose the

opportunity to do that. so i had to really bite my tongue on speaking out. i know my sister isn't mad at me about that. >> if you could have spoken or if he was standing right next to you right now, what would you say to him? >> like i said to his attorney, hank brennan, i said if he didn't kill my sister, have him write me a letter as to why i should believe he had no part in killing her, conspireing to kill her, or anything. and then i would respond to him with -- in the same fashion. but he never gave me that. but i am giving him that much.

in my heart is truth to saying i do not believe that he killed my sister hands on. i do believe in my heart that steve flemmi did that. but he was part of it on the conspiracy side. >> okay. mr. davis, i am so sorry. i feel your frustration. it is palpable. i don't believe in the word "closure" either. but at least maybe hopefully knowing that he will be going away for the rest of whatever is left of his 83-year-old life will give you some solace. steven davis, thank you so much. i am so sorry for the loss of your sister, debbie. i truly am. thank you so much for joining me and sharing your story with me. and i want to stay in boston because we have the u.s. attorney, carmen ortiz. here she is. she's speaking. >> it was their tireless work during the fugitive investigation that led to the apprehension of james bulger.

and it provided us with an opportunity to bring him to justice. let me end where i began today. with the victims and their families. so many people's lives were so terribly harmed by the criminal actions of bulger and his crew. and today's conviction does not alter that harm. and it doesn't lessen it. however, we hope that they find some degree of comfort in the fact that today has come, and bulger is being held accountable for his horrific crimes. i'd like to turn it over to the dea. thank you. >> thank you, ms. ortiz. >> carmen ortiz using the word we've been hearing from other family members. not necessarily from the man we just heard from, but a sense of justice. justice for their family members, justice for the lives lost here.

decades, this entire ordeal and story. that is james "whitey" bulger guilty today, 31 of 32 counts against him. be right back. we've been bringing people together. today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options. giving people easy ways to help make informed choices. and offering portion controlled versions of our most popular drinks. it also means working with our industry to voluntarily change what's offered in schools. but beating obesity will take continued action by all of us, based on one simple common sense fact... all calories count.

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the murder investigation involving forler new england patriots player aaron hernandez has taken a new and surprising twist. cnn has obtained court documents that show investigators looking for the gun used to kill hernandez's acquaintance by the name of odin lloyd now focusing on aaron hernandez's fiancee. susan candiotti is working this one for us. what are you learning? >> a new stack of search warrant documents and new revelations that show why investigators have also turned the spotlight on p the fiancee of aaron hernandez. these new court papers indicate the police got suspicious after learning some information from, of all people, the sister of hernandez's fiancee. that sister is the girlfriend of odin lloyd, the man who was murdered. the day after the body was

found, the fiancee was at the hernandez home with her sister and allegedly asked to borrow her car and told her sister that she had received a text message from aaron hernandez. now, authorities were now reading a cryptic message sent from hernandez to his fiancee that reads in part, go in the back of the screen in the movie room. there is a box. he names his daughter's name. who likes to play with it in the tub just in case you were looking for it. then he adds wink, wink, love you. ttyl. which is shorthand for talk to you later. the fiancee later writes back, perfect tv. love you. about an hour after that text message documents state the fiancee is seen on home surveillance video leaving the house with a trash bag and allegedly inside of that bag was a ridged object the size of a gun lock box. that's what police say. the bag was covered with clothing. the fiancee is said to drive

away and return a half hour later without the rigid object. now, the fiancee's sister allegedly told police as well that her uncle allegedly was told by that fiancee that mr. hernandez wanted guns taken out of the home and that they were thrown away in the woods. brooke, some interesting new information. >> definitely with regard to this fiancee here and the focus there on her as well. susan candiotti, thank you so much for that. also today, disturbing allegations against vanderbilt football players. an alleged sexual assault in a dorm room and police are signaling others could be involved. that's next. when we made our commitment to the gulf, bp had two big goals: help the gulf recover and learn from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned,

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disturbing accusations against four vanderbilt university athletes have put the school and its football program in a very uncomfortable spotlight. you have these four players. they are brandon vandenberg,

branking banks, javoian mckenzie and kory vaby. charged with five counts each of aggravated rape and two counts of aggravated sexual battery. this alleged attack happened in this dorm. this happened back in june. the alleged victim, a female vanderbilt student who police say was unconscious at the time of the assault. nashville police are signaling, too, that others could be involved. >> we are not ruling out the possibility of additional charges. as we in part examine what role other persons may have had in this incident. >> want to bring in brian haas, crime and court reporter for the tennessean newspaper. brian, welcome to you. when it comes to the stat stus of these four guys, these four players, are they still on the team? are they in police custody? where are they? >> all four players were quickly kicked off the team and banned from campus once details started

to trickle out. this was before the arrest. since the arrest, all four have been arrested. three of them are still in jail as of at least about an hour ago. one of them, javorian mckenzie, bonded out yesterday. he was bonded out on a $50,000 bond. >> what about the comments? we just heard from the police comments that other people could be charged here. what do you know about that? >> police have been really tight lipped about this and prosecutors as well. that's the best indication that we've gotten from them. essentially they're saying they're not ruling out additional charges. they're hinting. the only other indications we have are in the indictment itself of the four players. it did list other players as potential witnesses. it didn't say suspects. it didn't indicate anything like that. included among those witnesses is the vanderbilt's starting quarterback in addition to four other athletes. we're not exactly sure what roles any of those people played. we don't have any potential names at this point. they're keeping a tight lid on this one. >> then the university,

vanderbilt. we know they've released a statement. they're offering sympathy and support for this alleged victim here. this is also what they're saying. promising it is, quote, focused on doing everything we can to prevent any future ins tent like this on our campus. what are vanderbilt folks telling you? >> they're not saying much either at this point. they've been very limited in their statements. they've always made sure to express sympathy for the victim as well. they have said that they want to hold their athletes to high standards. that they'll hold them accountable. but they're not wanting to say too much at this point either. >> okay. we're going to follow it along right with you with the tennessean, brian haas. thank you for coming on. we appreciate it. >> thank you. coming up, new york to l.a. in 45 minutes? it could happen. we will tell you about this billionaire who's working on a hyperloop tube. that's next. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments.

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how about this idea? getting from new york to los angeles in less than an hour? i know it sounds like science fiction. but it's actually the latest dream invention by entrepreneur elon musk. co-founded pay pal, tesla motor. in theory vacuum sealed tubes would wiskk pods across the country. he claims it can be built for a quarter of what a highway might cost. the idea is actually decades old

and was discussed in a 1972 rand corporation paper. will it actually materialize? we will wait and see. if you take the hyperloop to new york, you will soon see a radical change in the city's skyline. here is cnn's dr. sanjay gupta with "the next list." >> reporter: this week we talked to two remarkable innovators. a danish architect who's bringing his unique design to the skyline of manhattan. >> this is the west 57th street project. it's a tilt from being a horizontal to being almost vertical. opening of the entire corridor for the sun. the bottom, the southwest corner is 42 inches. really the height of a handrail. here you have 430 feet. you have this sort of incredible from the human scale to the city scale in one single building. >> reporter: it's the kind of idea that when you see it, you

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happening in just about an hour and a half from now, we will be hearing from the father of hannah anderson. he'll be speaking at 5:30 eastern time. her rescue has the nation praising the amber alert system and those four horseback riders. they had two couples from idaho who are used to nature, used to the terrain. they picked up when they saw them on the trail just how unnatural, their word, unnatural they seemed when they came across the pair on this mountain trail. it was the chance meeting that led to hannah anderson's rescue.

>> our baby girl. oh, my god. i'm so glad she's safety. >> me, too. >> one of the riders said that the girl looked so unsettled that she nearly approached her. >> as we rode down into the lake and they followed us on foot and she was sitting there and i just felt like i should go over there and kind of just see if she needed help and mark says, you know, maybe he had a feeling being in law enforcement for all those years and in the military, he had a feeling i shouldn't maybe do that. >> and the man, who allegedly kidnapped her, james dimaggio, he was shot to death saturday. the fbi says he fired at officers at least once. san diego county authorities say dimaggio took hannah on august 3rd after he murdered her

brother and mother. and cnn has now confirmed hannah did not know she had lost her family members when she was out there with him in idaho. >> it is one of the most spectacular sites in the sky. meteor shower reaches its peak tonight. we will tell you the best way to take this in. stay here. hoenix. our average class size is only 14 students. our financial tools help you make smart choices about how to pay for school. our faculty have, on average, over 16 years of field experience. we'll help you build a personal career plan. we build programs based on what employers are looking for. our football team is always undefeated. and leading companies are interested in our graduates. we'll even help you decorate your new office. ok. let's get to work.

that happens about this time

every year. chad myers, i was just talking to some gals up working the 3 a.m., 4 a.m. shift, saying they loved it, beautiful. >> 75 per hour last night in the darkness. not right now but it's peaking at this hour somewhere on the other side of the globe where it's dark, about a two-week window. think about pig pen, you know, in peanuts, he would walk through and as he'd walk, he'd leave a cloud of dust. this comet leaves a cloud of dust and we're about to fly through the cloud of dust. they're going to fly through our atmosphere 133,000 miles per hour. that's moving along, clipping pretty good. >> so it looks like a shooting star but it's not. >> it is a shooting start. where to look. look to the east to northeast, low in the horizon around 7:00 to sunset and highly directly above us around 3:00 in the morning. coming one per hour and three

per hour. there could be clusters of these coming through. this could last for another week, too, but today should be the biggest night of the vaeven if you have clear skies. >> depending if you're in like seattle or miami or new york, is a certain place in the country better to see it or is it just about clear skies? >> the best part of the country to see a meteor shower is the country. >> the country? >> if you're in a city like you live, you're not going to see too many. you live in the country like i do, there's not as many city lights out there, i'm going to see more than the city. if you want to take a drive out to the country, take a blanket and look to the northeast tonight. >> i love it. meteor showers is tonight. chad myers, thank you very much. speaking of meteors. check out usa bolt. in moscow, bolt cruises to the win. watch it with me.