to read two bedtime stories with my girls. i do so like green eggs and ham. >> can you tell me, senator cruz, where did chinese gooseberries come from? >> they actually come from new zealand. >> how are you doing? >> i thank the senator from kansas, and i will tell you, i am doing fabulous. as benjamin frankly riley noted, indeed we must all hang together, otherwise we shall most assuredly hang separately. >> i will confess i hope we can avoid the hanging part of the situation that you've outlined. >> i don't want to miss the opportunity within the limited time to do something that is imperative. which is to thank the machine and women who have endesired this intoen to death march. >> well, look, say what you want about the wisdom and the artfulness of the execution.

someone had to do this. someone had to stand up and support the millions of americans who want obama care opposed. he was elected to do exactly that. the fact that three years after this is already the law of the land, you still have president obama and president clinton and hillary clinton trying to sell this law, i think is proof that we need more discussion on it. >> well, i think i want to focus on the baton death march piece of his remarks, not the gooseberries or the green eggs and ham -- >> owes white castle hamburgers. >> and we didn't even get to "star wars." but what exactly was the purpose? remember the goal was to block a bill that he's actually for that would shut down the government unless the president agreed to defund obama care. number one he was for a bill -- number two, trying to shut down the federal government over the funding of obama care. how is that a good strategy for the republican party?

that's already been proven wrong when republicans shut down the government more than a decade ago. so i think that he aptly summed it up. >> we will see. in the "crossfire" tonight two the ted cruz's bob casey of pennsylvania, and saxby chambliss of georgia, who wants to repeal it. senator chambliss, the first question to you. senator cruz has been taking a lot of people from his own party. senator mccain said this has been debated, the american people have spoken and when they reelected president obama. senator mcconned said our strategying have been to be based in the real world, in real yi9, not based on what ted cruz just did. you've also been a critic of what senator cruz did last night. is this good for the republican party? where is the strategy? >> well, look, you know, bob and

i are privileged to serve in a very unusual institution. you've been there with us, you know how it works. the thing about the united states senate is every member has the opportunity to express themselves when they feel passionately about some idea. ted cruz feels really passionate about repealing obama care. i disagree maybe with the method, but look, he is a member of the senate just like each of us are, and he has the right to take the floor as he did last night and two express himself, and deliver a message, stephanie, to the american people that he thinks is very important, and frankly i think is very important. that is, we're fixing to get hit with the biggest entitlement program the american taxpayers have ever seen, 2.6 trillion over the next ten years, and we don't have a pay to pay for it. we're broke now, we'll be fighting over the debt ceiling in two weeks. ted's point has been, look, this

thing will decrease the quality of health care, people will not get what they think they're going to get, plus we don't have the money to pay for this. >> i respect his right to -- >> the health care law is fully paid for, and we can discuss the specs of that, but you mentioned that ted cruz feels passionatately, but where was the passion in the republican party last night? i mean, he had a handful of people -- >> it was more than a handful. a lot of people came to the floor. >> that's about it. >> he was not a man on an island alone. >> he was isolated and people were pretty critical of hem. not just democrats -- i just don't see where the passion was with republicans behind this tactic. >> rest assured, you know, as mccain said this morning, we were there christmas eve 2009, we fought and fought and fought as hard as we could fight for

weeks and months to not see this bill come to law. >> we've been passionate for three years. >> but senator mccain said -- >> real passionate. >> we voted to repeal it time and time again. >> senator casey, let me ask you, obviously no one is going to argue, ted cruz did not accomplish 9 issue. his own stated mission of defunding obama care, but most americans aren't happy entirely with this piece of legislation. should we ignore all of them and end debate? >> no, what we should do is do what we've been doing since the bill was passed. debate the merits, work on changes to it, but we should also remember that parts of this level that have been implemented are working, $17 million kids with preexisting conditions had no coverage before this law passed. millions of seniors getting help with the doughnut hole, which is

a nice way of saying you have a big hole in your budget, millions are being helped. a lot of small businesses are being helped, so we've got to deal with the issue. but if we're just going to play games and have an ideological high-wire act about any issue, instead of debating the issues. i've supported changes in the bill, supported change that could include repealing the medical device -- >> yeah, but senator -- >> so ways to do that -- the right time to do that is in the normal koshs of business. and then realize how -- >> but you have an ideological point of view. are americans going to benefit long into the future, because premiumses, as we're seeing, are actually going to go up for entire classes of people who will not be able to afford this?

>> i know what it's doing, for example, to my staff. i see these young folks, not making a lot of money, and i see what's fixing to happen to their premiums. some are going from $200 to as much as $800 a month, and we're really not even sure of what those final numbers are going to be, but that's the estimate they've been given. >> in fact f. said the data released is highly selective. >> you know where you can find the data? healthcare.gov. >> whoa, whoa. >> they can put in their numbers and find out what they're eligible for. >> that's dot-gov, coming out of the white house. if we trust those figures, you want to negotiate with the russians. >> okay. >> health and human services, today they had a report that said premiums already 16% lower. >> by whom? >> before subsidies. >> okay. i want to point out -- who pays

for subsidies? >> i want to bring up -- >> taxpayers. this isn't monopoly money. >> in "the houston chronicle". >> who pays for it? me. you. >> today in "the houston chronicle" right next to a big headline about ted cruz wasting everybody's time trying to shut down the government, there was an article about, in "the houston chronicle quugs about the new options available to the people in texas and how prices were coming down. according to "the houston chronicle" in a family of four making $50,000, which means they'll be el,ible for tax credits, will pay about $57 for their health care every month, after subsidies. right now they pay upwards of $1800 to $2,000. how is that not a better system than we currently -- >> back to s.e.'s points, who will pay the subsidies? >> are you against giving people tax credits? >> it will come out of the pockets of the same people you

just said are -- >> we'll pay for it later. >> and what kind of health care policy is a family of four going to get, $57. >> pretty good. compared to what they're getting now? a health care policy that can't deny them health care, because they have a preexisting condition. >> and that's great. >> pregnancy for women is covered. a number of different benefits. they can't put an annual cap on you. right now 9 health care system, regardless of what you're paying, you have no idea in that insurance policy is going to be there when you need it. now, because of the new law that's going into effect, it's guaranteed to be there. >> so let hayes take that example, though, you're talking about less than $700 a year for that family of four. anybody in america knows that when you go in to see a doc and you have one test done, you've already exceeded that $700. so who's going to pay that? who's going to pay over and above that? >> i think that young people are

being unfairly burdened here. let me ask you about philadelphia in your home state. according to the latest numbers, premiums are not going down, a single 27-year-old on the bronze plan, who wasn't likely willing to pay $73 before obama care will not be mandated to pay $195. why are young people being unfairly targeted to pay for older folks? >> here's what's going to happen with young people. if they sign up in big numbers, which is one of the efforts undertaken by the administration, this is going to work. 9 math on this will work. >> it's a big if. >> i think they will sign up. they need health care, and i think they care about -- >> but they were going to pay -- >> those numbers are before subsidies. >> but that's not going to close the gap. >> here's the problem. i hear the message about repeal, repeal, repeal, repeal. that's all there is, right? one consequence.

>> repeal and replace. >> is the problem, sax by, you might want to replace it, but the republican party in congress, maybe not sax by, but i have not heard -- i'm waiting -- >> do you know john mccain? he came up with a health care plan. >> i agree with newt gingrich in august, the republicans don't have a plan. if you repeal it, once thing we know, cpo says you have a hole of $109 billion. so there's already a big hole, but i'd like to hear and would give back some time, but i'd like to hear of republican plan to make sure that small businesses have some help with their health care, to make sure that families can afford health care, to make sure every child with a preexisting condition will never, ever be threatened by no coverage or treatment. thattic be guaranteed under the old status quo. we can go back to those where insurance companies are in total charge? of not just your premium or care, but in some cases, of your

life. >> there are a number of republican plans out is there. the one that i supported the most was one that tom coburn and richard burt pullet out there. it was a very good plan, cost nowhere near the money that obam aa care is going to cost, and also didn't have they hid is not taxes. some of them are over, but there's a lot of hidden taxes in there that we agreed ought to be repealed. the medical device tax, a lot of piano people don't understand on home sales, there will ultimately be a tax on there to pay for obama care. part of the student loan money was to pay for part of health care, so there's just an awful love the hidden taxes out there that people are all of a sudden going to realize they have to pay to fund this monster bill. >> why should we have an exercise where people are literally ready to shut the government down and default on our full faith and credit of the

united states to relitigate an issue we should be debating outside of the crisis. we're going to talk about that more. ted cruz just wasted the last day, which means republicans are getting closer to a huge problem. senator chambliss, i want to know what you're going to do about it. so that's next. just by talking to a helmet. it grabbed the patient's record before we even picked him up. it found out the doctor we needed was at st. anne's. wiggle your toes. [ driver ] and it got his okay on treatment from miles away. it even pulled strings with the stoplights. my ambulance talks with smoke alarms and pilots and stadiums. but, of course, it's a good listener too. [ female announcer ] today cisco is connecting the internet of everything.

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welcome back. senator ted cruz just held the senate hostage for 21 straight hours. he was trying to kilo'bama care, of course, but he also was trying to persuade his fellow republicans to do things his way. listen to what he said last sunday on fox news. >> any vote for cloture, any vote for allow harry reid to add funding for obama care with just a 51-vote threshold, a vote for cloture is a vote for obama care. >> but after talking all night, he didn't follow his own advice. he joined the other 99 senators for cloture, including bob casey and saxby chambliss, so senator chambliss, can senator cruz vote for obama care according to his own test he set up? >> you'll have to ask him about that. i think my test would be a little different. bob and i know how we've been

operating in the senate. we've had frim getting cloture votes on moving to bills, much less closing off debate, but today this is too important a time in our -- in the fiscal situation of our country. we need to get on this bill. i would simply like to think that ted understands that, and that's why he agreed we need to go to the bill. now we get into the redebate. >> do you think that senator cruz, with all the theatrics that we went through over the past several days and the attention he's gotten, is he the future of your party? >> well, you know, everybody that comes to the senate come with the idea of running for president. haven't you always heard that? bob and i are the two exceptions. >> or maybe there's an anounszment you want to make. >> let's don't kid ourselves. there are aspirations on the part of the number of members on

both sides of the aisle. after all, this current president's term is up in 2016, so it's no secret about what's going on. >> senator casey, let me ask you about president obama, who agrees that this law needs some tweaking. he's delayed parts of it, exempt entire classes of people from the full brunt of its weight for now. what's one thing that you as a democrat would offer to republicans to try to make this law more workable, more attractive, more sellable? >> i think first of all we should do it outside of the context of shutting the government down. >> okay. fair. >> in a redebate. we mentioned the medical device fee. that position that i took to support repeal, because i had businesses in pennsylvania i spent time with, learning about the impact of that, and we decided to change our position. i think that's going to happen numerous times, just like it's

happened to every piece -- >> no offense, i don't think that's going to satisfy a lot of republicans. what about the individual mandate? >> i'm trying to -- i work on bat of the people of pennsylvania, but i think most of them understand that something as big and as we should do it in the normal course of how some of us arrived at the conclusion. we should change parts of it already. the idea that we're going to inject this and relitigate this every time you have a fiscal or budgetary deadline, i think creates the kind of, i hear a lot of people talk about uncertainty. this is uncertainty on steroids. to have another big fight about health care when you should be paying for the operations of government in making sure we don't have -- >> it is uncertainty that president obama himself has inflicted by delaying parts of this. by pushing things off. it was politically expedient to

get reelected first before a lot of this went into action. hasn't he played a role in the failure of leadership? a, to sell this to the people. clearly three years later he is still talking about it. and to get people to understand it. >> this is difficult. ask some of the people in the republican party has difficult the first couple years were of medicaid part d. >> sure. >> which is now very popular, by the way. not creating an analogy but there was a period of time there was confusion about it and maybe people don't understand it. and i think we're going through that period. it may take a while. this is dill to get right. the idea that you can walk away from this product and just say that you're fiscal condition will be fine. our economy will grow without tackling this health care problem i think is really missing the point. >> one thing that i've heard some of my democratic colleagues compare this to also is the medicare. i heard one of my colleagues jump up today and give a quote from ronald reagan of 30 years

ago. talked about how it was such a terrible thing. the fact is if what happens with obamacare is the same thing that happened with medicare, can you imagine what our children and grandchildren will be faced with 30 years from now? from the standpoint of ballooning costs. medicare is so totally out of control. and there are lots of things in obamacare that republicans do support. that's why i say repeal and replace. every doc, every hospital will tell you that. they give you good ideas about how you can fitch it. what's in obamacare is not the ideas from that. >> with all due respect, that's not true. and much of obamacare is really based on republican plans including a plan in

massachusetts that was put in place by a republican governor. based on competition. it is based on the private sector competing against itself for the first time ever. but let me go to one other thing. significant competition for the first time ever. and transparency. and it is the result of that, rates have gone down. for more than two decades, health care spending has been on a high end tragic he cannery. for the first time ever, on its way down. we'll see how long that lasts. >> i want to show you one more headline. i'm sorry. i keep showing you headlines. this is from the courier-journal in kentucky. it is about your leader, mitch mcconnell. the big headline is shutdown is looming. it is tagging mitch mcconnell with shutting down the government. do you think that he is sending ted cruz a thank-you note this morning for that? he is being primaried on the right by the tea party. he has a tough race on the left. and now he's tagged with

probably one of the most unpopular things across this country, shutting down the government. >> i think mitch did a very good job of showing good leadership in the last several days when he came out and said, in the press, i'm going on vote for cloture on the limiting debate. he didn't have to do that. if he was totally worried about a primary race, he might have gone a different direction. but it's leadership. that's what this is all about. and i think that's what he showed there. i think that's what you're going to see during the next 72 to a week -- 72 hours to an hour to the next week. >> let me forecast even ahead to the debt ceiling. do you think it was a smart strategy, senator casey, for president obama to come out early and say, he's not going on negotiate on this. and before anyone can walk in the room he has closed the door. >> look, the problem here with

playing games, with defaulting, pretty obvious. you can't talk to any economist, anyone who knows anything on the markets of the economy who think that's defaulting our obligations for the first time in american history is a good idea. we should take that off the table. that doesn't mean you don't have a debate about health care. what we should be talking about is what happened to the middle class the last generation in. >> so you support the strategy to not negotiate on the debt ceiling with republicans? >> i don't think we should do anything that imperils the ability of the united states government to pay its debts. i don't even want to contemplate what happened to the economy if we took that kind of a hit. >> okay, well thank you -- >> we always negotiate on debt ceilings. >> i know. it would not be the first time. >> we negotiate with putin work boehner. >> thank you. next we cease fire when it come to senator ted cruz. we agree on something.

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tonight we've been debating obamacare. let's call a cease fire. is there anything we can agree on in. >> look, i think his heart was in the right place. i'm proud of him for trying. but i think we would agree, ted cruz did not accomplish the mission. >> i'm not sure what the mission was but yes, i agree with you. he did not accomplish it. >> okay. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fire back question.