that's all for us at now. be back at midnight with the latest on the shutdown if it happens. "ac360 later" is next. i'm wolf blitzer reporting live from capitol hill. the breaking news, less than two hours before the federal government shuts down and hundreds of thousands of workers are furloughed and others lose paychecks and millions of

americans lose access to vital services or maybe -- just maybe, maybe not. senators on a 54-46 party vote rejected the latest vote to fund the government. it would seem to set the stage for a shutdown. however. a staffer for senator ted cruz of texas one of the g.o.p. hard liners just tweeted hearing boehner will offer clean vote after reid refuses to compromise. it's hard to know what to make of it. but john boehner's next move could be to back down recognizing perhaps that this game is a game as number of republicans have been saying, no one can win. at least tonight, during the house vote they staged a house vote they staged a rebellion.

-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> this is going nowhere. it's a dead end. we said two weeks ago. the party leadership does not want to get into this defunding obama care and threatening to shut the government down. they were forced into it by the ted cruz wing of the party, people more loyal to ted cruz. people don't often vote with the leadership but wanted loyalty on this for themselves. >> the g.o.p. hard liners prevailed. and earlier tonight before the vote, president obama singled them out. >> but one faction of one party in one house of congress in one branch of government doesn't get to shut down the entire government just to refight the results of an election. keeping the people's government open is not a concession to me. keeping vital services open and

hundreds of thousands of americans on the job is not something you give to the other side. it's our basic responsibility. >> so he's drawn a line. the senate has drawn a line. the house republicans have also drawn a line. bottom line? unless something happens in the next two hours, the government shuts down. let's start with the latest developments on the lawmakers and what's going on. dana bash is standing by. >> an aide to ted cruz tweeted they are hearing there will be a clean spending bill that boehner will relent on. that may be wishful thinking and lobbying and trining to gin up the conservative grass roots to call and make sure that's not going to happen. i spoke with a republican aide who said having a spending bill go through the house before midnight, that does not have anything attached to it is not

going to happen. so where are we right now? we are at stalemate once again after three volleys back and forth. two just today and the house is trying to figure out what is left to do. we just spoke with a republican coming out of john boehner's office saying there will be another vote with something related to obama care likely attached to it tonight before the night is out. and and that it does look like technically, at least, the government will shut down. i want to bring in a republican congressman, charlie dent of pennsylvania. he is the one who really tried to lead the revolt, it might be or at least lead his party to getting to where we are right now. thank you for joining us. you tried to get the votes to stop this bill that the senate rejected in warp speed to stop a government shutdown. you were not successful. now what? >> i have been arguing for some

time now we need to move to a clean continuing resolution. we have an affirmative obligation to govern and we have to set aside policy differences and move forward on funding the government. i often say back home to my constituents, every day is the same in the senate, they start slowly and wind down from there. not today. they are moving at warp speed. and so now i don't know what the next move is going to be. i don't know any of us do. i'm going to try to get more information ability what will happen next. but at the end of the day -- or before this process ends i think we will vote on a clean, continuing resolution to fund the government at the sequestered level. >> you only needed 17 members to vote your way to effectively stop -- 17 members of your own party to effectively stop the republican leadership and from

your perspective the conservative caucus of your house republican party, to stop this. and you couldn't get 17 out of 233. what does that tell you? that looks to me like a relationship conference united and you are an outlier here. >> i believe we will vote on a clean continuing resolution to fund the government. that will ultimately happen. might will be something that the senate will accept? i don't know at this point. there needs to be more talking and less volleying. it's the intent to pass as clean a resolution all along. but a few dozen members dragged the party to where we are right now. we are less than two hours from a government shutdown. look i want to defund obama care and repeal it and delay it. it's bad for a number of reasons, the law. but we are where we are right now. and the truth is i said that we

will shut the government down and not defund obama care. that's what is happening. so the point right now is it's important to fund the government and make sure that lives are not disrupted. there will be potential volatility in the markets and we will have to debates. this rollout is not going to go very well with these exchanges. >> but in terms of the immediate question, when the government will shut down and how you are going to pass something to fund the government, you think it's just a matter of time, maybe a matter of hours? i know you will try to get information. maybe we'll get you on the way back. >> thank you very much. thank the gocongressman as well. president obama made his position very plain and public. and just a bit later by phone, jim acosta has more on both from the white house. the president did speak with the congressional leadership including the house speaker,

john boehner tonight. what is the latest? what did he have to say? what do we know? >> before we talk about what the president said we have to point out something we just heard and that is a white house official told cnn that the president will sign into law this resolution that would pay active duty military personnel and some employees of the defense department in the event of a government shutdown. that is a good indication that we are heading toward a shutdown. why would the president sign something like that if we were not heading towards a shutdown. i want to point that out. earlier this evening the president called the congressional leaders, the minority leaders in the house and senate and harry reid. in the last week, at least publicly the white house has said the president has not spoken to house speaker john

boehner since a week ago friday. at least the president is starting to engage with congressional leaders. but you know, what the president said according to the white house is that he reinforced his position he is not going to renegotiate obama care and that's what he said in the briefing room earlier today. >> let me be clear about this. an important part of the affordable care act takes effect tomorrow no matter what congress decides to do today. the affordable care act is moving forward. and funding is already in place. you can't shut it down. >> so the president is saying you can't shut it down and by the way, wolf, as we have been saying, starting tomorrow, the affordable care act, the exchanges, the online exchanges start running and they're open for business for people around the country. not all are ready to roll on time. they there have been delays and glitches. but that is one thing that is

happening tomorrow whether or not the government shuts down. >> they have had several years to get it all ready since the legislation passed. they knew the day was coming tomorrow morning for people to start signing up for the affordable care act. why all these late last-minute glitches? >> they say any time anything this big is rolled out whether a new product from apple or amazon there will always be glitches and delays and problems. that's the administration's talking point there. just want to point that out. but they say they're going to be really looking to correct these glitches and delays as the days go on here. but, wolf, keep in mind, the president has said time and again he is not going to do anything under the threat of a government shutdown or under a threat of a debt default to tinker with obama care, delaying or changing it in anyway. he has said it before and again today he is willing to look at this as a normal legislative

process and the republicans on capitol hill are not taking that as something they want to deal with at this point. as we are standing here right now, as far as the president is concern wed are heading to a shoulddo shutdown. let's bring in our panel. democratic and g.o.p. strategists and alice stewart. guys, thank you very much. alice led me read to you something the president said today i shouldn't have to offer me anything. they are not doing me a favor by paying for things that they have already approved for the government to do. that's part of their basic function of government. that's not doing me a favor. he clearly is not ready to negotiate on this. where do we go from here?

>> we go from here by not shutting down the federal government and letting the house plan go forward. and another thing that the president also said earlier today in that white house briefing was putting american progress at risk is the height of irresponsibility and that's what he is doing with the obama care plan. and he says he doesn't have to compromise and give up on anything. but he has already done that with obama care by delaying the employer mandate. there is no reason he can executively decide he wants to delay the employer mandate and leave the individual mandate folks in this country out in the cold. if he is going to issue an action for the employer mandate, congress should be able to delay the individual mandate. that is where the divide is in the legislation. >> the senate once again the latest. what is your response to what we just heard? >> they have the power but they don't have the votes. you know, this is how a

democracy works. this is a designed shutdown designed by ted cruz and tea party activists. i have a degree in government and teach government and i watched "schoolhouse rock" here's what happened. the house passed a budget in march that reflected republican priorities. i wouldn't love it but they did their job. then for the first time in four years the senate passed a budget. okay, responding to a valid talking point. patty murray passes a budget on may 23rd. 131 days ago. the house had its budget and the senate had its. so "schoolhouse rocks" says they meet in a conference committee and discuss this out. 18 times, patty murray said i want to appoint people to this

conference committee and 18 times, ted cruise or marco rubio or michael lee objected and blocked it. they blocked the ability for the senate to negotiate with the house. why did they do that? the only thing that can happen then is this kind of a crisis. when you don't have the built in negotiation that the founding fathers intended. what you have now is a government by crisis. this is created by the tea party wing of the republican party. >> will moderate republicans like peter king and charlie dent of pennsylvania, are they likely when the dust settled whether at midnight or 4:00 a.m., 9:00 a.m. tomorrow morning, are they likely to carry the day, if you will and pass what is called clean legislation without any obama care attachments that will allow the government to be fully funded? >> i don't think so now. i think the time for that has probably come and gone. i think they try to get that through in the house in the last

vote and fell short. paul and i were talking about this in the green room. paul and i are the two people on screen that lived through the last shutdown. but i think that one of the problems that the ted cruz brand of republicanism is wrong on, frankly, is that they -- they believe that compromise equals capitulation. and in a democracy, that is not the case. in a democracy, you need to compromise. and i think at some point someone has to give. my guess is this goes on until thursday. let's do a clean cr and come back and litigate this other stuff under the debt limit and go through it again. >> if i can say something -- >> alice, one second. >> how long would that clean cr continue? >> i think they will do until the december 15th which is what they're looking for in the bill that's on the floor.

>> alice, what do you say? >> i think the important thing -- i agree with rich in this point -- we may not agree on the tactics that have got us to the situation we're in but the principles are important and the house republicans are doing what the people in this country want. they are voting to fund the government and voting not to move forward with this affordable care act. it is important compromise is critical here. it's not about getting everything you want. you the be house republicans have gone from a complete repeal to a delay of the entire portion and to a delay of the entire bill and a delay of a portion of it. we are not getting it from harry reid or senate democrats or president obama. that's why we are here because there is no compromise from the democrats. >> the democrats aren't coming with a pie in the sky wish list like the republicans.

senator cruz and now the house republicans, they have their fantasy draft of legislation. and that's fine. but it's just a fantasy. harry reid is not coming and saying we're going to shut down the government unless you pass the president's gun safety bill and unless you pass be pre-kindergarten program and the increase in the minimum wage. these are all things adearly love but they are on my christmas wish list not a hostage taking list. this is not the way to run government. >> here's what i have done -- if i were advising harry reid this afternoon i would have said let's strip out the military pay portion of this thing, let's don't give that to the house and send this clean cr back to the house without the military pay and see if they want to go to the wall on this thing. i bet the house would have caved

at that point. >> they didn't do that. rich, so we are where we are. >> no one listens to me any more. >> thank you very much. appreciate your being here. up next as we await a government shutdown or a deal to prevent it, we'll ask a republican house member why she voted to take on the white house.

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so you can feel free to add it to anything. and feel better about doing it. better it with benefiber. i talked to the president earlier tonight. i'm not going to negotiate. i'm not going to negotiate. i'm not going to the this. well, i would say to the president, this is not about me. it's not about republicans here in congress. it's about fairness for the american people. >> the house speaker john boehner saying the president is not ready to negotiate. they had a phone call and now it's back, though, in his court, the house's court, the latest bill to fund the government rejected by the senate. the time to a midnight shutdown growing shorter and shorter. joining us now anne wagner of missouri. thank you for coming in. what happens now?

where do we go from here? >> i'll meet with my colleagues and see where we go from here. but the house g.o.p. are the only ones doing anything to keep the government open and make sure that we are living by the laws. the amazing thing here, wolf, that is not getting covered is that the u.s. senate just voted to exempt themselves and the president of the united states from obama care. that's wrong. the people of the second congressional district and those around the country believe that those who make the laws ought to live by them. >> why not a clean continuing resolution to fund the government for a couple of months and have a separate fight over obama care in a regular way without necessarily holding 800,000 federal workers furloughed and millions of

americans about to lose service? why not pass the leresolution a fight over obama care? >> the only people fighting are the house republicans. we have been here all weekend long while the senate recessed. >> the senate passes legislation to keep the government open. but they don't include anything on obama care. any defunding or delay or withholding parts of the funding for obama care. the senate has passed language to keep the government open. >> the senate has not passed language. all they have done is killed the bill. time after time after time. >> 54-46, that's a majority in the senate. >> and in the last vote in the house on a bipartisan basis, the house voted to make sure that congress and the president of the united states live by the same laws that they pass. that is what we're doing. we're representing our

constituency. >> in order to make these changes, some of which may be excellent as far as many are concerned on obama care but if you don't get your way you need the senate to go along you're welcome will go to see the government shut down? >> absolutely not. the house are the only ones making sure that the government stays open. the senate has to come to the table and negotiate. it's flat-out wrong they are stone walling and killing the bill. >> the house is passing legislation to keep the government open. but you are attaching language that the senate is rejecting. >> we -- >> the senate rejected it three times. >> we attached language that made sure, you know, that the legislature and the congress -- >> but that has been rejected. >> that's wrong. >> so the question is you need two to tango. are you ready to pass legislation, a clean piece of legislation that will allow the

government to remain open? >> we have been dancing for a week but we have not being met anywhere. they shut down the senate over the weekend. the president played golf and they are voting to exempt themselves from obama care. the senate just voted that way and they voted that way for the president of the united states too. we are ready to solve this problem. we want to come together and fund the government but the senate has got to come to the negotiating table and the president has to lead. >> thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> let's go back to dana bash. she has breaking news. what are you hearing? >> we now know the next move by house republicans. they are going to revote on what they voted on earlier tonight that the senate just rejected be. but they are going to vote to appoint what is known as conferees, negotiators. what they are doing is trying to

acknowledge in strategy and tactics that this ping-ponging back and forth is not working. their next move is to say to the democrats who run the senate, fine let's sit down and negotiate. they are going to appoint people in the house to sit down and negotiate with senate democrats. now the obvious question is will senate democrats respond in kind and say we'll negotiate and appoint our own negotiators? we don't know that. if they are going to respond the way they have responded so far, they would likely dismiss this out of hand but we don't know this right now. there will be another house vote likely before the clock strikes midnight again on what they passed before which is a bill to fund the government but with a delay of the individual mandate and eliminating federal subsidies for federal lawmakers and their staff for health care. but they will say this is our position. we're going to appoint

negotiators to sit down with senators in order to negotiate the two positions and see where that goes. but the senate and the president have said this is not negotiable. >> it looks like an all nighter. the ping-pong is going to go back and forth from the house and senate and back to the house. in the meantime we'll see in there is conferees to negotiate a resolution by early in the morning when 800,000 federal workers will be told they are being furloughed and not being paid and federal services will just go away. let's see what happens in the next several hours. thanks very much for the reporting. just ahead we'll hear from john king. we'll get the assessment of what is going on. at farmers we make you smarter about insurance,

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. the breaking news dana bash just reported moments ago, the house not budging yet. expected to revote soon on earlier legislation and appoint a panel of conferees to hammer out a deal with the senate. the clock is clearly winding down. an four and a half or so from now there will be a government shutdown. with me now is our chief correspondent john king. john, i know you have been going through the latest polling numbers a cnn poll but you know about political strategy. what is going on right now inside the capitol?

>> in the white house they are trying to decide when the president may negotiate or get involved. but as we watch the ping-pong play out, now that the republicans say they will appoint negotiators it's an effort to show they are trying. but the question is will democrats accept it. one of the reasons they are trying is that the speaker is not in such great standing with the american people. 48% of the people have an unfavorable view. but she the most powerful republican in the country and the key republican in washington at the moment. but only 5 -- 54% of republicans are favorable of him. americans say they don't want the shutdown but 56% of tea party supporters say they are okay if the government shuts down for a few days.

but the most careful thing to watch is how john boehner tries to work out of this box. he doesn't want this shutdown but he has a revolt in his party to deal with. >> gloria what are you hearing from your sources? >> to piggyback, wolf, on wh what danno was saying. the game has changed from ping-pong to tag, you're it. and appointing the negotiators or trying to would be one way for the republicans to try to save face, i think, and get out of this, wolf. i think there is a recognition among republicans in the house they need to try to find a way to get out of it. the longer this goes on the more unpopular it will become. they are looking for a strategy to unspool this and get it over

with. >> david, if the house republicans say let's appoint conferees to come up with language everyone can agree on, the pressure then goes to the senate to appoint conferees and over the next few hours try to work out a language to keep the government open. how awkward would it be if the democrats said we're not playing this game, no conference. >> i think the conditions the republicans are going to attach, if they call for a conference but they also call for a conference and the senate accepts some sort of changes in obamacare that's a not starter over in the senate. it's clear we are going off the water fall and a lot of people are going to get hurt and have a threat over the economy. it's an act of utter stupidity that we find ourselves at this point. but we are going over. and i don't think anybody knows. the more public anger we see

that arises in the next day or two or three the more pressure to end the circus and get the government reopened. but i don't think there is any doubt they are not going to make it tonight. they're going to -- >> they could work all night. they could end up working all night and try to get the government shutdown ended as soon as it begins. was a i think -- >> go ahead. >> the sense i'm getting up here is that they're all kind of feeling enough but they're trying to figure out a way to extricate themselves so it doesn't look like they are waivering the white flag. >> but doesn't it look like they are look for political cover so they can say, we're willing to talk. >> absolutely. >> but we're going to be in shutdown. >> the question still remains at the end, let's say the senate

says no or yes but the senate's position is clear. will the republicans ever accept a clean continuing resolution? meaning a clean piece of legislation to fund the government whether it's 60 days or a shorter period of time with no restrictions on the president's health care plan? rand paul of kentucky said he is open to a cr for two weeks during some negotiation. is that a basis for compromise or does the president who thinks he has the upper hand keep saying no because he thinks he can win the argument with the american people? >> i talked to a senior house republican earlier today who talked about that scenario that you just spoke about which is essentially funding the government for two to three weeks. and guess what that goes into? the question of the debt ceiling. that's the bigger fight and the more dangerous fight.

politically republicans believe if they tell the american public you have to cut the budget and health care costs a lot of money at the same time, you've got to raise the debt ceiling they have a better message on that. >> david, go ahead. the debt ceiling, the ramification of the debt ceiling batting and the credit worthiness of the dollar, that is far more serious if the u.s. does not raise the debt ceiling and allows the credit worthiness to come into question. >> you're absolutely right, wolf. the silver lining question is, will doing something utley stupid like we're doing tonight eventually prevent us from doing something truly dangerous and that is go into default. if these next few days can be used to settle some of these issues, tweaking obamacare and doing something on tax reform, if that helps to purge the

system of all of this partisanship and poison so we can settle down and get through the whole debt ceiling crisis around the corner, it will have been worth it. the debt ceiling issue is far more dangerous than right now. this is unsettling and creates clouds over the economy and disrupt the lives of a lot of people. but you know very many no one knows how dangerous but all the experts say you can have a worldwide financial meltdown if the united states goes into default. so that's what we need to head off. that's why to use this period constructively. >> guys, don't go too far away. up next, breaking news on a shutdown, paychecks for america's fighting men and women. [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention

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more breaking news coming in right now, president obama just signed legislation into law guaranteeing servicemen and women will be paid if the government shuts down at midnight. chris lawrence is joining us now with more.

the military will get paid as a relate rult result of what the president just signed into law. >> in the morning about 400,000 federal employees will get their furlough notices. the only civilians are certain security personnel and those required to directly support military operations around the world. during past shutdowns workers who missed days could count on congress to authorize back pay for days they missed. no guarantee this time. because of the last big crisis in government a lot of these workers have lost about six paid days to furlough already this year. that's why you saw the defense secretary earlier today send them a letter thanking them for their service saying thank you for hanging in during this rough time. >> what about veterans of the united states military and there are millions of them out there, how would this affect them and

their benefits? >> good question. the va health care is funded a full year in advance. they could go to hospitals. the disability and g.i. bill checks for october have already gone out. but if this thing stretches into weeks, toward the end of october the va will run out of money. the disability checks and pensions checks could be stopped in the month of november. you are talking about elderly, some severely disabled vets, many of whom are living check to check. that could be a very, very big development. >> a lot of people could be suffering as a restructure of this. let's get more on which services will close and which will remain in business. for example if the government loses funding, the statue of liberty in new york harbor, national parks and museums will likely close.

tom forman gives us a run down of what may happen. >> the first thing you may notice about a government shutdown if one comes is there is not much to notice. we're not talking about a single grand event but rather a series of events that simply shut with the shutdown. if you go to the airport, it will be operating, the military, customs and border patrol, the postal service and federal courts and banks will be open. the local services that are paid for by local taxes, schools and police and firemen will be in business. but "usa today" showed that 41% of the government will shut down. let's bring in the next layer and talk about that. if you go to a national park or museum or montment connected to the federal government you may find it is closed. if you need a loan backed by the federal government you may find

that is a very slow process. if you need a new passport or a gun permit that may also be slowed down. there may be a delay in some federal checks like social security although generally lawmakers try to keep that from happening. then there would be the immediate effect. if you are a federal worker, you could be told to go home and you won't get a paycheck until this thing is over. and retro active pay which has happened in the past is not a guaranteed thing. with all those federal workers missing if you have to contact a federal office to sign up for medicaid, you may not be able to the that. time is what this is about. if this only lasted a few days we whole probably be stay back here in the green zone, not really seeing that much in terms of the results. but the longer it goes on, the more the red zone, these things

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back to the breaking news on capitol hill. in an hour and ten minutes the federal government will shut down. danno bash is joining us again back on forth on what we are learning. >> the latest is we do expect the house to go back in and have at least one more vote. but that does not mean the government isn't going to shut down. technically we do expect that the clock will strike midnight and there will be no bill to head to the president's desk. what the house republicans' plan is now is to revote on what they passed earlier that the senate rejected an hour ago. but along with it ask for the -- for there to be a conference committee appointed. but what that means in layman's terms they want to negotiate.

they want to sit down with the house republicans and senate democrats and negotiate in a room. this is an acknowledgment that the ping-pong isn't working and the move to get the senate to the table. if they don't it will give them the ability to say we tried to negotiate in regular order here and senate democrats aren't doing it. we don't know if the senate democrats will say yes or no yet. they are trying to take it all in and figure out how to respond. we are an hour away from technically the government shutting down and it does not look like there is in chance that will be averted. >> let's assume the democrats in the senate say yes and meet for a few hours from midnight to 3:00 or 4:00 a.m. and come up with a compromise. is it guaranteed that the speaker would allow that to be voted on in the house and passed

presumably in the senate? any assurances along those lines? >> that is a really good question. i think that the likelihood they would be able to appoint the conferees or negotiators tonight is slim. i was talking to a republican source who said the idea was just to get it out there and on the table, so to speak they want to have the negotiations but not necessarily expect them to begin overnight. at this point, is it more of a tactical move saying we are willing to negotiate but it will not happen before the government shuts down or even before the sun comes up when you are going to see the padlocks on the buildings and the furlough notices go out. >> 800,000 federal workers will be told don't show up for work and forget your paychecks for now. back in a moment with continuing

coverage as the clock ticks down toward midnight. [ nurse ] i'm a hospice nurse. britta olsen is my patient. i spend long hours with her checking her heart rate, administering her medication, and just making her comfortable. one night britta told me about a tradition in denmark,

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senate majority leader harry reid is on the senate floor speaking. let's listen in briefly. >> millions of people being affected in tomorrow. republicans are still playing games. as i indicated to the speaking

through the chair to the senior senator from illinois, a couple hours ago. just take a couple of examples. we have 15,000 people a day come to lake mead. spending huge amounts of money to help the economy. they come there to boat, to fish, to recreate. tomorrow morning, they can't go. we have a beautiful area, recreational area just a short distance from las vegas, when you fly to las vegas you can see the beautiful red hills. it's called red rock. over a million people a year come visit them. not tomorrow. now the republicans are shutting down places like that all over america. because they don't believe in government. and tomorrow will be a bad day

for government, a day of celebration in the republican-dominated house led by the tea party over is there. we hear the next gambit the house is to request a conference on the cr. at present we like to resolve issues. in the senate chamber tonight is chairwoman patty murray. she worked so hard to pass a budget in this body. we worked until 5:00 in the morning to get it passed. we passed a budget because it's the right thing to do and the republicans said we should pass a budget and we did. senator murray has for more than six months requested a conference on the budget, 18 times. so we like to resolve issues. but we will not go to conference with a gun to our head. first thing that the house has to do is