president and every democratic member of congress have made it clear that nobody wins in a shutdown. 800,000 unemployed federal workers not getting a paycheck, kids not going to head start programs, people not getting their mortgages or small business loans. it's a disaster. >> it is. >> and speaker boehner is trying to blame the president. that's like, you know, you've set your house on fire and blame the fire department. >> the buck has to stop somewhere. >> it does, and it could stop right now. speaker boehner to bring it to the floor and pass it. we could get this over with. anyway, in the "crossfire", two former government, democrat howard dean and jesse ventura. governor ventura, the first question goes to you. you called for a political revolution. what you mean by that is the american people should stop electing democrats and republicans? >> absolutely. >> that's a very similar message to the tea party. are you a member of the tea

party? >> should ultimately not. >> what advice would you give them to be more inclusive? illustrates i'm a member of no party. i advocate for the abolishment of all political parties. my allies are george washington, thomas jefferson and john adams. let's abolish political parties, make them political action committees. you could still get endorsed. why did they put the party's name on an election ballot? why not just the name of a candidate. it's far too easy. s if you're liberal, you look for democrats. this way it's inherent upon the voter to educate themselves what does john smith stand for? let's remove party off the ballot labels. that's a great start. it could be done locally, and it could spread like wildfire. governor dean, in 2011, you spoke about the -- i wouldn't

like a shutdown from a stateman's point of view, but if i were head of the dnc, i would be quietly rooting for it. i think a lot of democrats are quietly rooting for it, thinking it's good business. where are you on this? >> i think the president is right. here's what the problem is. they compromises can be made, they're not supposed to be made by stamps your foot and refusing to fund the government. these bills were incurred by the people now refusing to do so. the money has been spent, approved by republicans and democrats. so for the republicans to say we're not going to fund or debts that we already incurred so you can give up more stuff we couldn't get out of you in the normal elective process, it's silly, it's childish, and it's not in the best interests of the country. >> but on the debt ceiling, most americans agree they want it attacked to spending cuts. if most americans can understand that fundamentally attaching to

the debt ceiling spending cuts is a reasonable thing to do, why isn't the president listening to the american people, if not congress? >> because i think there are -- it's not so easy to understand how the budget works. if the debt ceiling -- look, i've a deficit hawk, but if you don't fund our bills, you will precipitate a worldwide collapse. >> we're not talking about funding our bills. we'll fund the bills and we want spending cuts. >> certainly you can have your cake and eat it, too? >> yes. why can't we do both? >> first of all, i would like to say both of these parties are responsible for the massive debt. they've been in charge for 150 years. how do they run from that? >> and in fact, if they ran their home finances the way they've run the government finances, they would be bagless homeless people living on the streets right now. >> sounds pretty good to me.

>> back to whether congress should vote to make good on their debts, do you think that we should be playing games with that? should we have a clean debt limit bill? >> absolutely. i've always been one to advocate that all bills should be clean, none of this nonsense. i worked hard for my four years in minnesota. had i sought reelection, i wanted -- a single -- in a single-house legislature. if they're going to make an amendment to a bill, it has to go to the full floor for a vote before tech be amended on the bill. many times you may have a great bill and they put three or four horrible amendments, and that puts you in the predicament, do i pass the original good bill with three horrible things ato which to it? i think everything should be clean. let's end amendments unless they

apply to that subject. >> i don't actually agree with doing that, but with the basic principle he's talking about is a very smart principle. what has happened is the congress in particular, and washington in particular, though it happens to a certain degrees in state capitals, it's become all about the members of congress. in fact those seats don't belong to the members of congress. they think they do. they belong to the people that put them there. that's the real problem. things have to be changed dramatically. i am looking for dramatic changes and i'm willing to enter tain some of these ideas that have not been considered mainstream, because i think the system is clearly broken. >> at the federal level, you need -- >> the amendment stuff, though -- here's a -- or a gal can't get something done, they make a deal, so they tax -- and the bill is so important that they can't say no to the bill, so something that moth people don't want gets in the bill.

it's classic. >> that's also how he get this government shutdown. >> but i do think the financial stuff has to be off-limits. you cannot fiddle with the credit of the united states and cannot fiddle with whether we ought to pay our debt. boehner has speaker for, what, three years? he's incurring these things. they pass continuing resolution with republican votes. this is their bill, and they refuse to pay it. >> do you think that president obama will let the country default just so he doesn't give republicans what they want? i want he won't. >> no, no, here's the problem. you cannot put this in the legislative mess. yes, he's absolutely not going to compromise. this is not about compromise. this is about the core principle, do you refuse to pay the bills to get your way? that is what this is about. there is no compromise here. there are things you can do, but not in the universe of the debt ceiling. >> i agree. do you agree with that also? the last time we played games

with it, it cost a trillion dollars. >> it's ridiculous. it shows me, too, in the typical fashion these two parties, they put their party first, they put their money people second, of who contributes to them and pays them off and we might be third. >> i have a two-second story. >> i do a lot of work abroad, and i do work in ukraine. so the chief of staff is not exactly democratic -- she's tripping, an economics professor. very fluent in english, so i was explaining why it's not a good thing to get too close to the russians, and why we need them to be more transparent.

i started to explain why they shoop them to fund campaign, and i said i'm really sorry, i can't give this. court just legalized it. >> exactly. >> the pot calling the kettle. >> and to me what should happen there, i'm for limited campaign financial, it should all go directly to the candidate. none of these outside entities playing the game. that's way the candidate is responsibility. that's fine as i openly disclose, to the public knows he'll be doing a few favors for vince mcmahon, or mo mark cuban, a friend of mine, if they were to -- there must be full, open disclosure and it should be the

candidate who is responsible for that disclosure of every cent spent. these corporates are not people. governor ventura, you've had your share of -- >> all kinds of rings. >> remember, though, that's ballet with violence. >> fair enough. >> that's how -- it's ballet with violence. >> was worst it? >> absolutely nothing. >> let's look at these democrats and senators, they get an option.

four health care plans they get to choose from, and they won't let the people of america have one? how they get there, i don't care. but my belief is if you're sick, you should have the ability to go to the doctor. it is that simp. how they want to deem to pay for it, but that should be our lifestyle that we should work for. we're allegedly supposed to be the greatest country in the world, yet we have people when they're ill can't even go to the doctor? >> so democracy for america, which came out of my campaign is now run by my brother, has had a campaign the last two days, signed up over a million people to get to make phone calls. to get rid of the people blocking the government. >> governor ventura, you may remember this commercial from

1998. coming up, i'll ask if we'll see it again. >> a man who will fight to return the surplus to the taxpayers, who will fight to lower property and income taxes, who does not accept money from special interest groups? life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis is a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisinfo.com to get your complimentary q&a book, with information from experts on your condition.

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. welcome back. amid all angry rhetoric, here is something refreshing to see, some advice from one of nigh favorites, rock star bono to fareed zakaria.

>> we only had one idea, which is to work with both sides, not to be held hostage by ideology on the left or the right, but to find a radical center, not a soft center. here at "crossfire", we have howard dean and jesse ventura. so it's friday, the end of a very long week. i think the american people are angry, the government is shut down. governor, you even said we shouldn't pay taxes. >> they should be prorating the taxes, so we get a reduction for how many days. we're paying for goods and services we are not receiving. >> i love that idea. would you agree? >> technically no, but i'll go you one better. the only reason -- there's a

cost of ramping down and up. >> but philosophically -- >> i don't think they should be paid. >> absolutely. >> i don't see why these guys should get a single paycheck while -- >> a number of them are donating their pay. that's become something of a political -- >> are they really? i want they say they are, to charity. >> when they go to do it, let's have them show on the tax return they donated their pay and to whom. probably donating the pay to their wife or husband. >> i remember back in 1983, 20 years ago, you said that being a physician gave you a healthy distrust of bureaucracy. isn't letting government panels discuss what kind of health care you need? isn't that really scary?

>> it's not really -- it doesn't exist. -- that's one of the bills that i didn't like. but that's pretty high-end technical stuff. the reason i don't like it is not because it's not going to work, but -- i'm for this bill going through. what we voted for is essentially a core decision to have university health care, but to leave it in the private sector. >> but it's mandated. >> that's right. >> i wasn't for that, either. but what they have done is a system that could december okay, they need that -- it needs to be done. the way to do that is get -- it's a long, complicated discussions. the reason you need to get -- is we get paid to do as much as we possibly can.

we don't get paid to keep you healthy, we only get paid when you're sick. that's a crazy system. you're seeing people who were in trouble to get insurance i want we don't know how many yet. other people visited the website. >> secondly, we know this model work, because it worked for massachusetts. so i think this thing ought to be tried. but this is what we chose, this is what we chose. i didn't get my way. i would have allowed anybody who wanted to to sign up for medicare. that doesn't happen. i didn't win, but this will do some good things. the private sector will be innovative and create something that will work. >> do you think president obama has been an effective leader through this mess from obama

care, to the shutdown? >> well, i would probably have done the same thing, because i wouldn't allow myself to be force forced into doing something like they're trying to do. i'm certainly not an expert like the doctor. i'll learn from him on that, but it just seems to me, c'mon, out of all the industrialized nations in the world we are the only one that doesn't have health care? let me read something from my book that applying to this, and i'll get it quickly. i should have marked it right away. okay. listen to this -- there's no ed to support the statement thatter would the greatest country in the world. we're seventh -- 27th in math,

22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy. third in median household income. and fourth in -- the number of incarcerated citizens per capita, we have the most people in jail. we're home of the brave, land of the free. the number of adults who believe angels are real. and finally, defense spending. we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are our allies. let's cut defense spending a little bit. stay out of wars and we'll have more than enough money to insure everybody in this nation of health care. >> your response? >> i was reluctantly for the sequester because it would cut defense spending. the reason it should be cut we probably don't have all that similar views. i think we can agree that there is an enormous blow to

bureaucracy. here's what happens, the defense industry is smart. they have huge numbers of the district congress people. they don't get cut. the generals go and tell the president, no mat here the general is, if you don't put this weapon system in, we could get blown up by xyz. what president would say i don't believe you. so yeah. >> is this a declaration? >> no. i would say i don't believe that. >> i think they need to be you said the same budgetary constraints as e else. i'm perfectly happy to let them pick out the waste but there is waste. >> i want to talk about a pretty incredible moment that was caught on open mic that explains why we're not reaching the goal you laid out. why we're not doing the best we can. let's watch. >> i think if we keep saying we wanted to defund it, we fought for that but now we're willing

to compromise. i know we don't want to be here but we're going to win this. >> that's senator rand paul telling the minority leader in the senate, don't compromise. keep the government shut down until we can defund obama care. >> i think so. on this particular issue, like i said, it has already been passed. it is the law. how can these guys defy the law? the law is passed. both houses passed it. >> do you think they're afraid of it working? >> yes. the thing they need to remember, this is obama's legacy. if it is so bad, why don't they hang in? >> you don't think there is a contingent of republicans who fundamentally believe that obama care is a moral hazard that will bankrupt the country. you don't believe there is any

authenticity anywhere? >> i think these wars will bankrupt the country. >> that's another question. >> a lot more than obama care will. >> a fair point but another question. >> but you're suggesting -- that every republican who opposes obama care does so simply because it has the president's name on it and because they actually think it will work. >> i actually think that there are probably a few people worried about the deficit. in the republican party, there is such a hatred of barack obama that they are motivated more by hate than what's good for this country. >> do you think that's a productive thing to say? we have democrats calling tea partiers anarchists and jihadists. harry reid apologized today for the lack of civility. what good does that rhetoric do when we're all trying to get to a place of compromise and agreement? >> because it is the truth. i've never been seen before in politics where there was a whole crew of people on the republican side, or any side, who deny that the president of the united

states was an american citizen. you've got to call this what it is. this is hate. this is anti-immigrant, anti-gay, they're anti-secularists. and i don't think we can -- >> let me show you as just a point of evidence here. i am a republican who is an atheist, who is pro gay rights, pro gay marriage. there are plenty like me. there are plenty like me and it is incredibly irresponsible for you to paint an entire party, and in fact more than half the country with that kind of brush. >> they're doing that themselves. >> they at large are not. i will gran that you there have been some bad messengers in the party. >> have you had ted cruz on this party? anybody that would put ted cruz on there is advertising that for the republican party. if the republicans want toy is a

it is not so, let them have the spine to step up to that. i haven't seen that. >> republicans like me stand up to that all the time. there are mental of republicans -- >> i'll trying to figure out how you are a republican. >> well, i am. >> i think we need -- >> there are plenty of fiscal conservative who's are strong on national security, i happen to be pro-life. who are not the radical anti-everyone that you have made them as. >> 35% of all the republican vote when i was running for office because i was pro business. this is not the same republican party. >> these are elected to do exactly what they're doing. their could be constituents don't like obama care. what would you have them do? break promises? >> they don't want to shut down the government over obama care themselves may not like obama care but the american people do not want the american people to shut down over it. get over this. it is the law of the handled. >> a lot of thing are the law of the land and thank god we continue to fight over them. >> as the independent here, i am fiscally conservative and i am

socially liberal. that's why i can't fit into either party. >> that's fine. >> we've all laid out, we've all decided to start our own party. >> we can't let either of you go yet. >> governor, you should be lining up with me then. not with the democrats. >> yes or no go are you running for president in 2016? >> no. >> are you? >> maybe. >> thanks to howard dean and jesse ventura. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] may your lights always be green.

[ tires screech ] ♪ [ beeping ] ♪ may you never be stuck behind a stinky truck. [ beeping ] ♪ may things always go your way. but it's good to be prepared... just in case they don't. toyota. let's go places, safely. i'm on expert on softball. and tea parties. i'll have more awkward conversations than i'm equipped for, because i'm raising two girls on my own. i'll worry about the economy more than a few times before they're grown. but it's for them, so i've found a way.

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