hope, and what's great is people do recognize that. change will come. >> all right. sir, thank you so much for your time. >> thank you for the opportunity. that's it for "the lead." i'll be back at 11:00 p.m. eastern tonight, 8:00 p.m. pacific with a cnn special shutdown showdown. for now, i turn you over to wolf blitzer in "the situation room." happening now -- >> my suggestion to the speaker has been and will continue to be let's stop the excuses, let's take a vote in the house, let's end this shutdown right now. >> president obama says he will talk about anything with the republicans, but not until they allow a vote to reopen the government and avert what he calls catastrophic chaos by agreeing to raise the debt ceiling. the house speaker john boehner just said now's the time to start talking, but what do republicans really want to prevent the u.s. debt default? we'll have a debate between two members of congress.

and from jobs to mortgages to retirement funds, we are going to show you what a government default could mean for you. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." president obama just spent more than an hour slamming republicans for shutting down the government and putting the economy at risk by not moving to increase the debt limit. but in the end, he left them an opening, suggesting that once they act on those two things, even with short-term fixes, he will be happy to negotiate with them on almost anything. the house speaker john boehner gave his answer a few minutes ago, saying the time to talk is now, not later. so where do things actually stand right now? let's begin our coverage this hour with our senior white house correspondent, jim acosta. jim, did we see any opening in what the president had to say? >> i think we did, wolf. it started off with that news conference that the president

had for well over an hour. it sounded like he wasn't offering any room for negotiation, wasn't budging at all but towards the very end of the news conference, the president said not only is he willing to accept a short-term increase in the nation's debt ceiling, that would give both sides some room to hammer out a future compromise. but he also said that house republicans could attach to legislation that reopens the government and raises the nation's debt ceiling some kind of mandatory committee process that would bind democrats and republicans together to hammer out some of these big disagreements that exist over the budget and the debt ceiling. but the president said that that would have to happen after the government is reopened, and after the debt ceiling is raised. i talked to a white house official who said don't overinterpret all of this. the president is not offering new concessions in order to get those things passed. but want to go back to what the president said earlier today, because it was the smallest of peace offerings to republicans. >> if there's a way to solve this, it has to include

reopening the government and saying america's not going to default, it's going to pay our bills. they can attach some process to that that gives them some certainty that in fact, things that they're concerned about will be topics of negotiation. if my word's not good enough. but i've told them i'm happy to talk about it. >> even before the news conference, the president did reach out directly to the speaker. >> reporter: that's right, he did. they had a conversation around 10:45 this morning. it was shortly after the speaker complained that the president was not negotiating, so interesting to see that the president then called the speaker, and want to point out, wolf, something that we heard a few times during this news conference, and that was it seemed as if the president was trying to separate the speaker from his more conservative tea party caucus. listen to what the president said here. >> and if reasonable republicans want to talk about these things again, i'm ready to head up to the hill and try.

i'll even spring for dinner again. but i'm not going to do it until the more extreme parts of the republican party stop forcing john boehner to issue threats about our economy. we can't make extortion routine as part of our democracy. >> reporter: now, the other thing we want to point out is that the president during this news conference for the first time really started to paint a very dark, doomsday scenario as to what might happen if the nation goes over the debt ceiling and into default. he said that treasury secretary jack liu would have more to say about that in a congressional hearing on thursday, but wolf, this whole idea that there would be this process that the white house and democrats would enter into after a debt ceiling increase, after a continuing resolution is passed to reopen the government, it is very important to say at this point, wolf, we don't know how that's going to take shape. the white house is not offering any specifics as to how that

would be laid out and it is important to note, in just the last several minutes, the white house did issue a veto threat, saying that the super committee idea that came out of the republicans earlier today up on capitol hill, the president would veto that legislation. he is not interested in their idea of a super committee at this point, mainly because as you heard the president say earlier today, the republicans have already said any super committee would have to take new revenues off the table. the president said he is not going to do that. white house officials say that is basically a nonstarter at this point. some kind of process but not the republican super committee laid out today. >> tiny progress, if that. thanks, jim acosta. let's go up to the hill right now, where dana bash is standing by. you are getting reaction to what we heard from the president. the speaker just moments ago speaking out himself. so is there some wiggle room here that's going on? am i missing something? >> reporter: if there's wiggle room, it's certainly not being perceived that way.

republicans certainly perceived the way the president spoke for over an hour today as saying a lot of the same as he has said before, that he's not going to negotiate. so the house speaker did come out shortly after watching the president in his office here on capitol hill. here's part of what the speaker said. >> the long and short of it is there's going to be a negotiation here. we can't raise the debt ceiling without doing something about what's driving us to borrow more money and to live beyond our means. the idea that we should continue to spend money that we don't have and give the bill to our kids and our grandkids would be wrong. this isn't about me and frankly, it's not about republicans. this is about saving the future for our kids and our grandkids and the only way this is going to happen is to in fact have a conversation. so it's time to have that conversation. not next week, not next month. the conversation ought to start today. >> dana, we also heard from john

mccain. he clearly is fed up with what's going on and he's been around capitol hill for a long time. >> reporter: that's right. he is sort of one of the few veterans of lots of negotiations of deal-making that's left in the senate, somebody who is willing to work across the aisle and more importantly, more recently, somebody who has successfully worked with the white house, with democrats, on several deals on various issues, even over the past few months. what happened in the senate, even as the president was speaking today, wolf, the senate democratic leader harry reid called what is called a quorum call, meaning he forced all senators to come to the senate floor and discuss the fact that he thinks it's an embarrassment to the country and so forth. john mccain, who has been relatively quiet on the senate floor and really around these halls on this whole shutdown and the debt ceiling, came out and talked about the fact that there needs to be a negotiation. listen to what he said. >> how is this going to end?

we know how it's going to end. we know how it's going to end. sooner or later, the government will resume its functions. sooner or later, we will raise the debt limit. the question is, how do we get there. if there's anybody who disagrees that we're not going to reach that point, i would like to hear from them. so why don't we do this sooner rather than later. >> but wolf, this is kind of almost a circular issue or circular debate, because what john mccain is asking for sounds reasonable, but when you listen to the president, roll back the tape from today, from yesterday, from the day before, he is insisting, he is not going to talk about those things, not going to negotiate, until and unless republicans agree to reopen the government and raise the debt ceiling, and then they can talk. so we are still just to put it bluntly in a chicken or egg situation, which is going to come first. so far, we don't know what the answer is to that.

>> we certainly don't. it's an awful, awful situation right now. the stalemate continues. dana, thanks very much. let's assess what's going on with our chief political analyst, gloria borger and our chief national correspondent, john king. gloria, they seem to be as divided as ever. >> yeah, they are. i think the president came out today and while jim acosta said there may be a teensy little crack, this was not an olive branch. this was the president saying i'm not going to negotiate on this, i want you to fund the government, i want to make sure we don't default on our debt, and then we can talk about all of those things that you say you want to talk about. what was interesting to me was that obama care, the affordable care act, started as this president spoke about at the beginning, talking about republicans' obsession, as he called it, with his health care reform act, but there was very little talk of it because the conversation has now shifted to the debt ceiling and i think republicans understand that the public doesn't want them to

attach a health care bill to the debt ceiling. they want to talk about reducing spending. >> gloria makes a good point. i don't think there was one question about the glitches in the rollout of obama care during a 65-minute appearance that the president had in the briefing room. >> a lot of republican strategist looking at 2014 races bang their head against the wall at that. they think if republicans had not brought us to the government shutdown and this debate t political narrative in this country would be about glitches in obama care and they would be benefiting. instead the republicans are getting more of the blame for the shutdown and more of the blame for the potential government default. i would disagree to a tiny degree on the idea of the president saying you can put the conditions in writing, put the subject and negotiation in writing as a potential olive branch. the problem is, it would have been an olive branch two years ago or four years ago, when maybe they trusted each other. but because of the collapse of the grand bargain in 2011, the speaker and the president don't have a good relationship with trust and even more importantly, those 25 to 40 republicans, house republicans, tea party

members, they don't trust john boehner to go into those negotiations. they're not going to say we'll open the government, raise the debt ceiling, then talk about the things we care about. >> the interesting question is i think now, if the two sides don't trust each other and boehner and the president don't trust each other, who could the go-between be? you saw john mccain there on the floor, sort of volunteering, saying you know, i'll be the go-between. the problem with john mccain is that i think he can talk to lots of democrats but he's the one who called ted cruz what was it, a whacko? the republicans do not trust mccain. then you have the question of joe biden. joe biden, you know, did a couple of deals. it's the senate democrats led by harry reid who feel like he sold them up the river on those deals on the fiscal cliff and the debt ceiling in 2011. so joe biden is not the one leading this charge. >> is that relationship between harry reid, the democratic leader, majority leader in the senate and joe biden that

poisonous right now? >> their personal relationship is okay. forgive me, this is a testosterone test, if you will. harry reid is the leader of the senate, and he felt he was sold out, that joe biden came in and did his job. >> when he negotiated with mitch mcconnell. >> and the administration gave up too much in the view of some democrats in those negotiations. so harry reid's point is i'm the point person in the united states senate, respect my job, mr. president. i have had your back in a lot of fights. don't go around me or behind me. the problem is with zero trust, the president is betting that john boehner gets to the point where he sees the republicans getting most of the blame and perhaps the majority going away and he blinks. the speaker is betting on the fact that the president sees the prospect of default and even though the republicans get more of the blame, if the economy tanks, what happens to the president's second term? then he will blink. the only way to get this done is to put them in a room and if they don't trust each other, leave them there until they figure it out. >> or put other people in the room for them, that are representing them, but are their surrogates so they actually don't have to look like they're caving. this is all in the end, this is

all going to be about who's behind the curtain. who's doing the negotiating here. what are you calling a negotiation. what are they willing to decide down the road, what are they willing to do right now and push off. it's in everyone's interest right now, i would argue, to get this done. when you look at the polling, they are angry. voters, over 80% of voters are angry at everyone. >> you can imagine what happens, imagine what happens to that anger if all those savings you have finally gotten back to about your pre-financial crisis levels, if the markets tank and the 401(k)s, the college funds collapse, watch out for the anger people will have at this town. >> not getting your social security check. >> nothing else will get done. even though the president is winning politically now, the biggest challenge is what happens the next three years if they don't figure this out. >> they should all worry about it. >> thanks very much, guys. just ahead, we are going to debate all of this with two key lawmakers in the house of representatives. the ranking democrat on the house appropriations committee,

and republican congressman scott garrett of new jersey, who serves on the budget and financial services committee. what do you want to ask them? what would you like me to ask them on your behalf? you can tweet us, using hash tag sitroom. we will try to get some of your questions in as well. up next, from your job to your home to your 401(k), we are going to show you what the real impact of a u.s. debt default could be. and american soldiers killed in afghanistan because of the government shutdown. guess what, their families aren't receiving death benefits as they should right now. what is going on? [ male announcer ] a doctor running late for a medical convention loses his computer, exposing thousands of patient records to identity theft. data breaches can happen that easily. we don't believe you should be a victim

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already, it's not a very pretty picture. tom? >> yeah, you know, problems in the housing sector, are what started the last recession. so if there's a default and i know there's a big question about the if, that is where many people might feel it, in their neighborhood. why would that be? because there are already indications that if a default comes, there could be a change in interest rates. they could rise in the interest rates. what that means is that fewer people would be able to afford your home and because they can't afford your home, housing prices which have been rising would start falling again. to say nothing about what it would do to about two million construction jobs in this country which have been slowly trying to rebuild. it's not just true of homes. if you were trying to buy a car or open a business and you need a loan, those interest rates will also play a role there. concern number two. real money, basic money from the government, what if you receive or somebody in your family receives social security or medicare or student loans or anything like that. about 148 million americans have

that right now. that's a little bit less than half the country. so what do you do in a practical sense if your father, who relies on veterans benefits, suddenly finds they're delayed or simply go away all together? another possible impact if we reach that dire circumstance of a default. here's another really big one that affects almost everybody. jobs. in the environment we're describing, the potential for businesses to start shedding jobs is huge and remember, in the last recession, this country lost about eight million jobs and only now is it trying to recover those jobs. so you have a sense of how tenuous that circumstance would be. here's one last area to think about in all of this. what about your savings? what about all the money you put aside for your golden years for retirement or for your kids' education or some special purchase down the line? that money is locked up, as john king mentioned awhile ago, in 401(k)s and in different mutual funds and different investments. in the circumstances we're describing here, if that comes

to pass, all of those savings could lose substantial value. wolf, that is why some analysts who are most concerned about this say this would not be just about d.c. but it could be about you. >> yeah. not a pretty picture. tom foreman, thank you. coming up, they hold trillions of dollars in u.s. debt. now china and japan, other countries are warning the united states to get its act together and avoid a default. the spillover could be enormous. and what do republicans really want to prevent a u.s. debt default? we'll have a debate between two members of congress, both of whom are standing by live. stay with us. hihing, helicopters buzzing, and truck engine humming. sfx: birds chirping sfx: birds chirping

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with the government shutdown dragging on and a debt crisis looming, the dow and s&p, the indices all fell more than 1% today. the nasdaq went down 2%. given the catastrophic warnings coming out about a possible default, why aren't the markets down even more? lots of investors are asking that question. joining us, dianne swang, chief

economist for mesereau financial. thanks for coming in. the dow was down, what, 159 points today, closing at 14,776. it was well over 15,000 already. what's your assessment if there's no resolution of this debt ceiling issue in the next few days? can we anticipate further declines? >> absolutely. the problem is the financial market, although they think the armageddon scenario where we actually default on our debt and stop government payments is not the most likely outcome, it's possible but not probable, they have to start pricing in the risk. they also have to start dealing with the reality of the actual cost to the economy the longer the government is shut down. not only are government workers furloughed, there's a spillover effect, cab drivers, retail workers, restaurants outside -- there's a place in kentucky where they have 3,000 irs workers that are out of work and no one's going to the restaurants in the area, and they are quite concerned about

that. i talked to the president of the chamber of commerce there. so there are these spillover effects where you have losses that are real and are going to affect the u.s. economy. it also creates uncertainty about the future which causes hesitation. we have seen a lot of hesitation already and hesitation is the last thing you need in an economy that's already been hesitant on growth. so hesitation in hiring, that's a real issue. >> it certainly is. i remember 2011, when there was a debt ceiling crisis, what we lost about 2,000 points in the dow jones then, and back in 2008 when there was the recession, the economic collapse, the dow jones went from above 14,000, below 7,000 very, very quickly, and people lost a ton of money. now, only now, a lot of folks are beginning to catch up to where they were then, but what i hear you saying and a lot of other investors saying, be nervous right now because we don't know what's going to happen over the next ten days or so. >> it's not only the next ten days. i think the one thing that wall street is going to have to come

to terms with, and washington, wall street and main street often seem to think they are disconnected but as you noted in 2008, we learned we are intimately connected. right now one of the scariest things i have to deal with, i think our recovery and growth potential going forward is in the hands of our elected officials in washington and i don't like feeling that way as an economist, nor as an american. so that's something that disappoints me right now and also scares me. but there's been cumulative effects. during that crisis in 2011, a lot of other policies were sidelined. our status in the globe, in the world was undermined and we didn't go forward with trade talks that have already undermined our competitiveness. last week, president obama had to cancel a trade talk which also further are setting us back and critical talks with china that also have geopolitical implications as well as economic implications. these kind of costs are starting to seep in and undermineus both as a nation in our geopolitical sense and economically.

that's the part financial markets are fully pricing in right now and are beginning to be forced to deal with it, which is not good news for the rest of us because we do have exposure no matter who we are. we know what happens on wall street matters on main street and what happens on capitol hill matters to all of us around the world. >> what about the treasury notes , the t-bills that are out there. a lot of americans have those treasury notes. what's going to happen? i don't think there's going to be a default, obviously, but if we get close to that, how worried, what would be the impact on those treasury notes? >> i think that's an important point you made. i don't think there's going to be a default either and the question is if we do breach the debt ceiling, what laws will our treasury secretary have to break in order to maintain spending in the u.s. economy from the government and servicing the debt. i do think as we get closer to the 11th hour on the debt ceiling, we actually still have to price in that risk. what's been interesting is even

though it's been very small and gone under the radar, we have seen equity markets, but treasury bond bills, short-term bills that are expiring right by -- the day after the government closed, the ones that were expiring right around october 17th, then the ones that were expiring in november 7th, th,er there was a risk premium, they're at their highest rates since 2009. so it's really modest, doesn't have ripple effects for the economy yet but the fact that that's already happening, investors are already having to raise rates on the very minute short-term treasuries means that that's a precursor of what could happen, that we could get a spike in rates and if the uncertainty is not resolved, it could linger. and the global pressure here is real, because the biggest investors of course in the treasury bond market happen to be foreign investors and they will pay the greatest price but it is also global in scope because we are what everybody else prices all their assets off of. the treasury bond is the gold standard or it is considered that still. not sure why.

better still be. we need it that way. >> thanks very much. interesting, before the president started his news conference, the dow jones was down 123 points. after the news conference, by the end of business, 159 points down. so there's a lot of nervousness out there. i suspect that's going to continue until they work out a deal ending the government shutdown and raising the debt ceiling. thanks very much. it's a military benefit no family ever wants to receive, but if the time comes, many families certainly rely on it. we're talking about the military death benefit paid to the families of fallen service men and women, and right now, the u.s. government shutdown means no one is getting it. no one. here's our pentagon correspondent, barbara starr, with the very latest. >> reporter: wolf, the speaker of the house, john boehner, says it's disgraceful, his words, that the administration is not paying the death benefit to military families of the fallen. the pentagon says fix the law so they can pay.

for these troops just killed in afghanistan, their families are being denied government death benefits until the shutdown is over. >> that america could fail the families of our fallen heroes, appalling, frightening. >> shouldn't we be embarrassed about this? shouldn't we be ashamed? >> reporter: marine lance corporal jeremiah cullen's remains were brought monday to dover air force base. >> he became a marine to become somebody. he became a great marine. >> reporter: but his family and others will not get pentagon funding to go to dover to meet their loved one. the program is frozen until the shutdown is over. funeral and burial expenses won't be reimbursed. a $100,000 cash payment to survivors, stopped. amy nyberger miller works with grieving families.

there is concern for those that don't have a lot of money. >> the benefits are especially critical because they do provide them with the ability to make decisions quickly. >> reporter: her 22-year-old brother christopher was killed in iraq in 2007. >> there were a number of unexpected expenses that we had not anticipated in our lives because we certainly had never thought my brother would die. >> reporter: some republicans say the pentagon already has the authority to pay the benefits but promise a quick piece of legislation to make sure that happens. again, the pentagon is adamant it needs that legislative fix and they say they are right and the proof is that congress is going to fix the law so it must need a fix. but in the meantime, wolf, a number of private corporations and groups that support military families are very quietly behind the scenes stepping forward and offering financial assistance to

these families in their time of grief. wolf? >> heartbreaking story indeed all around. barbara starr, thanks very much. much more coming up on the government shutdown, including a major debate here, a liberal democratic member of congress versus a republican conservative member of congress. they're both getting ready to make their positions. our debate when we come back. jc: lunct at thaaue restwent e?ll lik 'mn: iwhorry, u?are yo yo: i'm ke cowor c'moni'guys. g.drivin y, y s ou gblcoortae? it's best-in-class rear legroom.

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take a quick look at some of the other top stories in "the situation room" right now. state department sources tell cnn the u.s. ambassador to libya has been questioned by the country's justice minister over the capture of the alleged al qaeda operative, abu anas al

libi. he was apprehended by american forces over the weekend in tripoli, angering many libyans. the united states is putting marines on standby in italy in case the u.s. embassy in tripoli is attacked. an advance team is on the ground in syria overseeing destruction of the country's chemical weapons stockpile. it's all part of a joint mission between the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons and the united nations. the team will eventually number about 100 people and will have a support base in cyprus. new details emerging about that 9-year-old boy who boarded a flight from minneapolis to las vegas without a ticket after he slipped past security guards and a distracted gate agent. the minneapolis star-tribune reports he's also been caught sneaking into a water park and was recently arrested for allegedly stealing a car. we have learned the boy's mother, by the way, works at the minneapolis airport. officials in las vegas say he will be returned to minnesota. and a new $100 bill is out

with features that make it easier to authenticate and harder to counterfeit. the bill contains a blue 3-d security ribbon and color-shifting ink that changes from copper to green when tilted. the image of benjamin franklin is still there but no longer surrounded by a dark oval. the actor tom hanks says he's been diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. he says he's known for years that he was -- had a pre-diabetic condition marked by high blood sugar levels. listen to what he told david letterman. >> i went to the doctor and he said you know those high blood sugar numbers you've been dealing with since you were 36? well, you've graduated. you've got type 2 diabetes, young man. >> hanks says he will be able to manage his condition through diet, as millions of other people do. the actor also sat down with cnn's christiane amanpour. you will be able to see that interview on cnn.com. just ahead, a looming

crisis, two lawmakers are here to debate who needs to do what to keep the government from defaulting on its debt. plus, president obama says newt gingrich learned shutdowns are no way to do business. newt is here. he will respond to the shout-out he received from the president. my interview with the "crossfire" cohost coming up in our next hour. ♪ [ male announcer ] may your lights always be green. [ tires screech ] ♪ [ beeping ] ♪ may you never be stuck behind a stinky truck. [ beeping ] ♪ may things always go your way. but it's good to be prepared... just in case they don't. toyota. let's go places, safely.

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president obama says he'll be happy to negotiate with the republicans, but only after they allow a vote to reopen the government and agree to raise the nation's debt ceiling. right now, neither side seems to be budging. joining us now, two members of the house of representatives.

congresswoman nina lowey of new york, ranking democrat on the appropriations committee, and republican congressman scott garrett of new jersey. he serves on the budget and financial services committee. to both of you, thanks very much for coming in. i'll start with you, representative garrett. here's what you were quoted october 7th in national review online as saying, referring to the debt ceiling. if it doesn't have a full delay or defund of obama care, i know i and many others will not be able to support whatever the leadership proposes. if it's just a repeal of the medical device tax or chain cpi, that won't be enough. what would be enough for you to vote in favor of raising the nation's debt ceiling? >> so i voted many times in the past to raise the debt ceiling in this country and i'm ready and willing to again, so we can get the fiscal house in order in this country. so what we would like to do is to try to put us on a path to fiscal sanity and one way you do that is to begin to address our

entitlement problems and this is something that we've talked about for years, but we actually have to get to the point of negotiating it and talking about it and getting all parties to the table, and that's what we would like to see. >> does it have to have, as you said earlier, a full delay or defund of obama care as well? >> so part of entitlement, we have created a brand new entitlement with the affordable care act, also known as obama care. that's a brand new entitlement to the tune of over $2 trillion. so all those things i think have to be on the table. there can't be any preconditions, as i just heard your lead-in here saying the president says he will do this if, and set preconditions to any negotiations. when you go into negotiations you need to have people on both sides of the table. we're here, he's not. and no really preconditions going into the discussions. everything on the table. >> go ahead, congresswoman. that sounds reasonable, right? >> republicans recklessly shut down the government. now they're threatening to default instead of raising the

debt ceiling, and this is the way they are avoiding the regular legislative process and trying to extort commitments without even a negotiation. let's remember that in the continuing resolution, the spending bill, the democrats accepted the republican number, in both the house and the senate, and when it comes to defaulting on the debt, that is outrageous. let's go through the regular legislative process. the president had agreed to have discussions, we can talk, we can negotiate, but not hold up the default -- not hold up the debt ceiling. we cannot default. >> that sounds reasonable, congressman garrett. >> it all sounds reasonable, and i think we're on the same page. we don't want the country to default by any stretch of the imagination. that's why we went through the regular process. we sent bills over to the senate, we sent about, let's see, four regular appropriation

bills over there, and unfortunately, the senate did absolutely nothing with them. that's what really brought us to this point, was the senate inaction. now we're going through another version, if you will, of regular order. we're sending more bills over to the senate to open up the parks, to make sure the vets are paid, make sure the troops are paid, make sure the head start is up and running, run down the list of all the appropriation bills that we've sent over to the senate. as i always say, the senate is where all good bills go to die. >> well -- >> they won't take up any of these bills. we need to have these bills considered by the senate and then we can go to conference and come up to a reasonable end result. >> you have another version of reality. you're forgetting that the senate accepted your number and the house passed a bill with your number. the extraneous pieces of legislation attached such as affordable care act, was affirmed by the house, affirmed by the senate, affirmed by the supreme court, and the president

has agreed to negotiate with you. don't default on the debt. this would be outrageous. >> no, the president has said, let's get the facts clear. the president has said over and over and over again, he just called speaker boehner just the other day and said i will not negotiate. he has said that repeatedly. on your decision to default on the debt. >> we don't want to default on the debt either. we have already passed a piece of legislation. >> then stop threatening to do so. >> i have never, ever -- have you ever heard me threaten to default? >> congressman, you said if it doesn't have a full delay or defund of obama care you wouldn't vote to raise the debt ceiling, meaning the u.s. will default on its debt. >> actually, no. the nation will not default on its debt. we have already september

legislation over that would allow the government to continue functioning. and we support the administration doing what's in its authority to pay the debt. the debt payments are up around $20 billion a month. income is around 230, $240 billion a month. we want to make sure that that is always paid. there's not a single republican who does not want the debt payment of this country paid. >> they don't raise the debt ceiling, you think the u.s. can still go ahead and pay all of its responsibilities, including making sure social securitiey checks go out on time. >> yeah. if you looked fe revenue flow coming in, we've prioritized this of about. this has been looked at for years now. in fact, during the bush administration, there was a legal opinion saying does the

executive have the authority to pay those responsibilities first. so this has been looked at before. >> go ahead. >> it seem does s to me that yo a distorted view of reality when it comes to the debt. jack lew, treasurer made it clear that somewhere around the date october 17 is when we must, must take action on raising the debt ceiling. so if you're saying that you're not going to negotiate on the debt ceiling, then let's get it done -- >> he says he's willing to negotiate on the debt ceiling, congresswoman, but he wants concessions from the president on obama care. >> look. obama care is off the table. the house voted for it, the senate voted for it. affirmed by the supreme court. there are many issues. and let's remember, there was a negotiation with republicans and

democrats in december 2012 and august 2011, and it was speaker boehner who walked out of the negotiation, even though they were this close, and that included mandatory spending, a whole range of issues. look, we should not be holding the debt ceiling and the continuing resolution, funding the government hostage. let's pass it and we can have all the negotiations we want. >> so, let's be clear. let's look where we are now. we are willing, ready to negotiate. republicans in the house have already appointed negotiators. the president has said he does not want to negotiate. if harry reid wants to send people over to negotiate, we're ready and willing to do it. at the same time, if we could get the senate to do what we've done in a bipartisan manner this week, we have passed bills in a bipartisan manner to open up much of the government.

if the senate would just pick up those bills, you would see a lot of those issues be swept away. we can't get harry reid to move those bills. >> let me make it clear, there's a process in place. you may want to go around it. we have a continuing resolution, fund it at your number, bring it to the floor of the house. >> can i ask you something? >> go ahead. >> can i ask you something? is it the regular way we should be passing funding for this country in one solid bill or the way you fund multiple appropriations bills? >> oh, chairman rogers and i are ready to do a complete bill. you want to hand pick here, hand pick done. maybe by december we get the process done. >> we've already september four of those bills to the senate. they have not taken up. you probably voted on some of them. >> you know, you are deciding what you want to send over. there's a process in place.

chairman rogers and i have the whole -- >> all right. we've got to wrap it up, guys. obviously two different positions on both sides. they've got to reach common ground at some point. hopefully sooner rather than later. thanks to you. coming up. a salmonella outbreak sickens many people, is it a result of the government shut down? geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to.

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happening now, the president calls speaker boehner, and then calls him out. >> we're not going to pay a ransom for america paying its bills. >> so the president's position that this, we're not going to sit down and talk to you until you surrender is just not sustained. >> so there's lots of talking here in washington, but no

negotiating. is there a new opening to end the standoff in are both sides just digging in? guess who else the president pointed to in his conference today? cnn's own newt gingrich. he'll fire right back. plus, tainted chicken. hundreds of people are sick from salmonella poisoning. are there enough federal inspector does protect the food supply as the government shutdown drags on. >> i'm wolf blitzer. you're in the situation room. all day long, it's been a battle of news conferences and sound bites. president obama, house speaker john boehner, members of congress all making their cases to the cameras. but most americans would prefer they talk to one another, end the shutdown and avoid defaulting on america's debt. is there any hope of that

happening soon? let's go to jim acosta. any hint whatsoever of even a little progress? >> reporter: maybe just a smij. no price at this news conference president obama came out swinging at republicans, then as he was almost finished taking questions, he seemed to crack the door open just a bit to a potential breakthrough. it wasn't long after president obama walked to the podium that it sounded as if the standoff was once again at a stand still. >> let's stop the excuses. let's take a vote in the house. let's end this shut down right now. let's put people back to work. >> reporter: but as president obama moved his way through the final moments of a one how muur press conference, he said he would agree to a short-term debt ceiling increase. but only after the government is

reopened and a default is avoided. >> they can attach some process to that. that gives them some certainty that in fact things they're concerned about will be topics of consideration. >> reporter: it came a few hours after a phone conversation between the president and house speaker john boehner who complained earlier that the president was unwilling to negotiate. >> there's never been a president in our history that did not negotiate over the debt limit, never, not once. >> reporter: the president also trying to put distance between the speaker and tea party republicans. >> so when i read people saying this wouldn't be a big deal. we should test it out, let's take default out for a spin and see how it rides, and i, i say imagine in your private life if

you decided that i'm not going to pay my mortgage for a month or two. >> reporter: at his second news conference of the day, boehner insisted the president's words were not enough. >> what the president said today was if there's unconditional sur ep derby republicans, he'll sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> reporter: the duelling news conferences is a reminder that the government is in full crisis mode. >> we've got to stop repeating this pattern. i know the american people are tired of it. and to all the american people, i apologize that you have to go through this stuff every three months it seems like. and lord knows, i'm tired of it. >> reporter: now the white house did issue a veto threat saying the president would not sign off on a republican version of a budget super committee. but the biggest surprise of the day, the president was not asked

about some of the problems with obama care. so not only has the government shutdown failed to stop obama care, it's actually given it some cover. >> because reporters weren't even asking about it even though there are plenty of problems, plenty of glitches in this first week of obama care. the conversation ended between boehner and the president without any word about when they might get together, continue the dialog, is that right? >> reporter: that's right. but as you heard the president say he is willing to start talking with republicans again. he even offered to take them out to dinner. >> thanks very much, jim acosta at the white house. we're looking at ways the shutdown isaffecti affecting pe across the united states. what are you finding out? >> this outbreak started before the government shutdown and inspection was not the issue,

but the government agency that tracks outbreaks and measures how widespread they are and issues warning, they were working with a bare bones staff before the outbreak started. and there is a concern about tracking it from here. more than 300 people made ill from salmonella, tracked to raw chicken products from foster farms. the inspectors from those products are from the u.s. department of agriculture. are they sitting at home? could this have started because of the government shutdown? >> it has not affected the food inspection to any major degree. the vast majority of inspection personnel are still working because congress has viewed their function as a necessity. >> reporter: and according to an official, the investigation into this outbreak started before the government shutdown.

experts say the salmonella made it into the marketplace simply because some of the naturally occurring pathogens in chicken slip through sometimes. but it is drawing another major children, and it has to do with the centers for disease control. while poultry inspectors are still on the job, the cdc has furloughed a lot of people, which means that the people who could track this salmonella linked to the outbreak could put us all at risk. many of the scientists who were furloughed were brought back. but there was a delay in the exchange of information about the outbreak. that worries food watchdog groups. >> is this food getting further into the marketplace if you're not warning people that you're losing opportunities to waurn people not to eat it or to take care because of salmonella or to figure out did the outbreak occur because we didn't put those pieces together. >> reporter: is it resistant to

antibiotics? >> it's a through thing we can track. is that bug resistant to drugs used to treat it. i haven't seen the report because we're not getting complete reports. >> reporter: there are signs of resistance to antibiotics in some salmonella strains in this outbreak, but because of the government shutdown they haven't been able to track how strong those strains are. >> states do track it. >> states do track it. and they do identify these cases, but it's the cdc that puts it all together to see if cases in different states are linked or not. and with these people out, these cdc scientists who do that linking, they haven't had that information. now they're coming back together, but there was a delay there. >> yeah. serious delay. up next, millionaires fight

to give more money to politicians. could a supreme court case make it easier to effectively buy a campaign? and newt gingrich is riled up and ready to respond to something that president obama said at his news conference today. he's here in the situation room, and he will respond. this was the hardest decision i've ever had to make. jim, i adore the pool at your hotel. anna, your hotels have wondrous waffle bars. ryan, your hotels' robes are fabulous. i have twelve of them. twelve? shhhh, i'm worth it& what i'm trying to say is, it's so hard to pick just one of you, so i'm choosing all of you with hotels.com. a loyalty program that requires no loyalty.

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rep. rokita: obamacare hurts this country much more than any government shutdown. vo: reckless. rep. blackburn: people are probably going to realize... they can live with a lot less government. vo: destructive. rep. bachmann: this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. vo: the government shutdown is hurting veterans, seniors, and our kids. now tea party republicans are threatening... an economic shutdown. refusing to pay our nation's bills. endangering american jobs. tell them to stand up to the tea party. enough already! ♪ [ male announcer ] the parking lot helps by letting us know who's coming. the carts keep everyone on the right track.

the power tools introduce themselves. all the bits and bulbs keep themselves stocked. and the doors even handle the checkout so we can work on that thing that's stuck in the thing. [ female announcer ] today, cisco is connecting the internet of everything. so everyone goes home happy. at a time when many americans are simply furious at their elected officials it is curious that some people would want to give more to their government. guess who helped plead the case? a high-powered politician, the

senate's mitch mcconnell. >> reporter: shawn mccutchen made big bucks with his electrical engineering company in alabama. he's a millionaire with a problem most persons don't have. he's given hundreds of thousands of dollar does republican candidates since 2010, but for him, it's not enough. >> i gave a lot of money, and i want them to spend more. >> reporter: right now the law says individuals can donate more than $123,200 to political parties during an election cycle. he filed a lawsuit that would allow him to give as much money as he wants as he admits that politics is something he does for fun. >> i consider politics a hobby. >> reporter: but this could change the way elections are paid for by next year's midterms. mitch mcconnell also filed a

friend of the court brief. president obama weighed in opposed. >> there aren't a lot of functioning democracies around the world that work this way where you can basically have millionaires and billionaires bank rolling whoever they want, however they want. in some cases, undisclosed. and what it means is ordinary americans are shut out of the process. >> reporter: the limits are supposed to keep corruption or the appearance of it out of politics. in court, justice elaina kagen said somebody who gives lots of money would give somebody a very, very special place at the table. mccutchen says he's not trying to buy politics. >> it's likely that the members of the court are going to view this as too much an infringement on your rights to participate in the process. >> reporter: the idea, when it

comes to the first amendment, the law should not discriminate, even against the wealthiest 2% of americans. >> interesting case. thanks very much joe johns for that. let's dig a little deeper with jeffrey toobin. what do you think? the pros and cons, basically, this would make citizens united look relatively pale. >> the conservatives are winning on this issue. and they care deeply about it. and they are in the process of deregulating american campaigns. all of the regulations that are in place are basically aimed at limiting the power of money, but if you believe that money equals speech, that giving money equals speech, as five members of this court appear to do, you can't limit. and this is not the middle. it's not -- it's still part of the beginning of the deregulation of american

campaigns. >> more money's going to be involved in politics assuming the supreme court goes along. let's switch gears, talk about the debt ceiling, raising the debt ceiling. some have suggested that the president could do it by hem self by invoking the 14th amendment. the president spoke about that today. >> i no he there's been some discussion for example about my powers under the 14th amendment to go ahead and ignore the debt ceiling law. setting aside the legal analysis, what matters is, is that if you start having a situation in which there's legal controversy about the u.s. treasury's authority to issue debt, the damage will have been done even if that were constitutional. >> 14th amendment says the

validity of the public debt, shall not be questioned. so does that give the president potentially, worst case, nightmare scenario, the u.s. about to default, an opening? >> no one know, wolf. no one knows whether the president has this power. and it's a measure of the desperation of the system that people are reading into the 14th amendment this power as somehow the president says a rabbit out of the hat to allow him to bypass congress. but i think there are all sorts of problems with this idea. legally, we don't know if he has this power. politically, the president doesn't want to let congress off the hook. and practically, even if he did it, this debt would be legally under question. and that would defeat the whole purpose of giving certainty to the market. so i just think this is a non-starter as an idea.

>> jeffrey toobin, as usually, thanks very much. srlg members of congress arrested near the u.s. capitol. we're going to tell you what's going on. and one. hosts of the crossfire, newt grinning rich, he'll join us. he wants to set the record straight after he got a shout out of sorts from the president at his news conference. in a small cage. ss so that was our first task, was getting him to wellness. without angie's list, i don't know if we could have found all the services we needed for our riley. from contractors and doctors to dog sitters and landscapers, you can find it all on angie's list. we found riley at the shelter, and found everything he needed at angie's list. join today at angieslist.com

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members of congress have been arrested in a large demonstration near the u.s.

capitol that went on despite the government shutdown. what happened? >> reporter: well, a number of house democrats were taking part in a long scheduled rally on the mall calling for comprehensive immigration reform and a number of those house democrats are standing on the street in front of the capitol. police ordered them to move, but they didn't. so they were arrested in an act of civil disobedience. some may be very familiar including charles rangel. many were wondering why they were able to gather on the mall. for the last week, the national mall is legally closed because of the shutdown. we're going to spin around and show you what's been going on. this is part of a stage that was used for the rally, but even though they're not supposed to be gathered on the mall, the national park service told us that under the same first

amendment rights that are allowing honor flight veterans to visit the member oral yeah, other groups will be granted access to the park for first amendment activities. so obviously, another loophole in getting around this shutdown. >> thank you. president obama had plenty of tough words for the current house speaker, but he also brought up the name of the former house speaker who used to be in the crossfire. and the former speaker newt gingrich joins us. he's the co-host of crossfire. the president gave you a little shout out. >> back in the '90s, we had a government shutdown. that happened one time. and then after that the republican party and mr. gingrich realized this isn't a sensible way to do business. that we shouldn't engage in brinksmanship like this.

and then they started have ago serious conversation with president clinton about a whole range of issue, and they got some things that they wanted. they had to give the democrats some things that the democrats wanted. but it took on, you know, a sense of normal democratic process. >> is that the way you remembered it, newt? >> i'm always amazed at president obama's either misunderstanding or deliberate falsification of history. and there were at least three occasions on this particular press briefing where he said things actually false. since i was a witness, let me correct it. we had a very tough, but very consistent negotiation with president clinton. unlike president obama, president clinton kept talking. we talked by telephone. we talked in person. we negotiated. we had a clear understanding of where each other was. and we understood that neither of us had the right, either representing the legislative or

the executive, neither of us had the right to just walk out of the room. so there's a fundamental difference. in the end, we both got something fairly significant. we got a commitment to get to a balanced budgity. as you know, the only four balanced budgets in your lifetime in a row were comes straight out of that. we got welfare reform, the first tax cut in 17 years. clinton got something i wanted badly, for example the children's health program. but president obama clearly is wrong about that, just as he's wrong about the history of the debt ceiling and the history of the continuing resolution. >> let me interrupt you. because he said after those two government shut down, one for about a week, one for about three week the, it was only then that you and president clinton decided to begin engaging in a sensible way and all those things you just talked about, the balanced budget, the program, the taxes, all that was worked out in a sensible way. it wasn't worked out during the

showdown. >> that's just plain factually wrong. as president clinton indicated recently on piers morgan, he and i talked regularly. we talked all the way through the process. it was covered by the news media. they knew that we were going down to meetings at the white house. we began to sort out what we could agree on. and you know, the other thing that was much more candid back then, i went back and reviewed some material after the president's comment today. president obama like does say that the congress is being unreasonable. i made a point back then that president clinton had a gun, it was called a veto pen. so there was a balance of power exactly as the founding fathers intended. the president could veto. the house could refuse to pass money bills, and we had to get together. i believe that none of the things that followed would have occurred without that difficult struggle, because i thought we had to get president clinton's attention that we were serious. i think the house republicans have the same problem today.

there are games being played by senator harry reid and by president obama that are clearly just gamesmanship. they have nothing to do with serious government. >> let's hope following this government shutdown and the crisis over raises the debt ceiling everyone starts behaving in a sensible way and gets some business done. newt gingrich with a historical advantage. he has the advantage of having lived through that history. thanks very much for coming in. >> right. you can always follow what's going on here in the situation room. you can tweet me. you can tweet the sho show @cnnsitroom. crossfire starts right now. tonight on crossfire, tough talk. >> let's stop the excuses. >> and calls for more talk. >> the president said today was

if there's unconditional surrender by republicans, he'll sit down and talk to us. that's not the way our government works. >> when will somebody listen? on the left, stephanie cutter of the on the right, s.e. cupp in the crossfire. bill burton who supports the president's refusal to negotiate and david limbaugh who says republicans should force him to the tabl. more talk or more action? tonight on crossfire. welcome to crossfire. i'm stephanie kurt on the left. i'm s.e. cupp on the right. president obama and the democrats spent the day trying to paint the republicans as extremists. i think it's other way around, insisting he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling? something that's routinely been negotiated is worse than posturing. it's threatening to