we have a live chat online on ac360.com. i hope you join us. "piers morgan live" starts now. breaking news tonight, some ten people trapped on a struck roller coaster at universal orlando resort in florida. it's the rip ride rocket. look at this picture. some might say it's a rather metaphor for what is going on in america or all that is not going

on in america. there is no injuries, thankfully and the fire department is working to rescue them. we wish them well on that. this looks like what is actually working, happier times for that ride and also for america generally this is "piers morgan live." welcome to the viewers in the united states and around the world. tonight shutdown showdown day nine how long can it go on and are we any closer to a deal before the debt deadline. closed-door meetings. a democratic met with the president tonight and republican will meet with him tomorrow. a powerful number, 26, 26 military personnel died from the shut down and because of that there is a terrible cost to the families they leave behind, a loss of benefits at the worst possible time. this country owes them a sacred debt. president abraham lincoln said it best in the second inaugural address with charity for all let us strive on to finish the work we're in, to care for him we shall have born the battle and

for his widow and/or fan. words so strong. a deal with the private charity fisher house foundation to pay survivor benefits. the government will reimburse when the shutdown is over, if it does end and i'll talk to a fisher house board member montel willia williams. both sides seem far apart as possible. i want to bring in two congressman, republican james lang ford, chairman of the policy committee and james heinz. gentlemen, welcome to you. let me start with you james. we have spoken a few times through this process. you two are standing next to each other, which i guess is a vaguely encouraging sign, but is there any real sign of movement here or has everything moved to, now, a debt ceiling debate which will be resolved around that deadline? >> i think it's more likely we'll have debt ceiling and cr

conversation, obviously, we wish this would have been resolved a week ago and get this done or two weeks ago so we never walk into it. the closer to the debt ceiling, let's do some of this probably not long term but short term to get resolution and negotiate and get things solved long term. i would like to get america fully work to work again. >> james you were with the president tonight. word was leaking out he was saying look, if it takes an extension of, say, six weeks to resolve this debt ceiling situation, we can alleviate some of the problems through that period then that may be the way to go so the republicans can save faith so we can get the government going again. is that your understanding? >> i think that's accurate. i think the president showed flexibility and he made the point that he's made all along which is that he is not going to negotiate as long as one party is saying that they will bring down the global economy through

a default on our debt by not paying our bills or that they will hold up a shut down of the government with the horrible implications that that involves but that if we can get past that, he's completely open to a six-week discussion about how we move forward on the real issues of the day, how do we make this country long-term fiscally sustainable. he's more than willing to negotiate and rightfully so, this would be true for a republican. when one brings a hand grenade and says here are our demands, meet them or this grenade goes off. >> tell me this jim heinz, you were with the president today. did he mention this appalling situation involving the payments to dead servicemen and women because there were clear warnings put out, not a secret, pentagon public briefings saying this would happen. how can the president fame ignorance about this and how do you feel personally -- >> there is no --

>> that these poor family haves been treated this way? >> there is no famed ignorance about this at all. none of us are under misapprehension what a government shutdown means and yes, it's a horrible situation as you point out lincoln bringing us to the notion we owe an immense gratitude. it's not just them, right? it mean, it is head start families in my district who are now choosing between keeping their job or looking after their kids at home. the pain is massive around this country and the president knows that, as well as anybody else. as he pointed out tonight. he regularly writes to those who have lost limbs or lives abroad and so he understands how very painful this situation is we find ourselves in. >> you may understand it james long ford but collectively the republicans and democrats by continuing the shutdown have directly led to an appalling situation. you know, one that i think most americans find just completely indecent. the idea you could lose your life on the battle field fighting for your country and your loved ones who are left

behind are deprived of payments because of squabbling in washington, it's sickening. >> it's heart wrenching when a loved one is lost either way. all those families with sons and daughters for the freedom of the people around the world. as we walk through this process two weeks ago, the house passed unanimously the resolution to make sure the military is paid and we move. the senate passed that up and the president signed it and for the next week, eric holder and the department of justice and lawyers and pentagon interpreted this one-page bill that said all military, all civilians connegligented to the military and scivilian contractors continue as normal. we had all these civilian contractors lay off and debate. we believe that the original bill that we passed two weeks ago took care of all the issues about this reimbursement to all

these families but we passed another bill today reinforcing again to say we felt like this has been taken care of two weeks ago. if this was missed, let's make it clear again this should be paid for. this is one of those many issues as we walk into it to lay the groundwork to say we don't want a shut down, it shouldn't affect the military. they were the hardest hit and shouldn't have to take anything during a shutdown. >> piers, the other thing that happen ed is john boehner went o harry reid and said i can get you an extension at the republican budget number which is where we are today, so that we can negotiate a deal and then the speaker went back to the republican conference and said no to him. we find ourselves in the world where the next step became, wait a minute, instead of passing a clean c.r. we need a repeal of obama care and if you want to raise the debt ceiling we need the excel pipeline passed and epa regulations, so two weeks ago had that failure had john boehner's promise to harry reid

been fulfilled, we never would have gotten to the shutdown, which is why we're trying to do right now and what the president is trying to do is find a way for everybody to back down from the treaty the speaker climbed up on and get back to a point where we restart the government, we take the debt ceiling off the table and have the six, seven, eight, ten-week negotiation to deal with the long-term stability of this country. >> james lang ford, you'll be with the president tomorrow with the republican delegatiodelegat. clearly, the president made it crystal clear repeatedly any amendments of obama care are on the table and will not have it held as a gun to its head. given you know this before you go into the room, what will the strategy be to get through this on pass that is causing such havoc to so many americans? >> we are actually very hopeful this is actually negotiating time. the president wanted all 233 members of the house to come over and meet with him. we didn't think that would be

protective. that's not a real negotiation. so we'll bring over about 17 people to be able to sit down with the president and hopefully have positive negotiations from this. before the shutdown started and at the moment that it started, we said let's just conference and work this out the way that every house and senate and president has worked this out since the 1700s. now when you get to an impasse, you assign negotiators between the two, they meet, work out differences and we pass that. the senate is unwilling to do that and the president said over and over again he won't meet, he won't negotiate, which is odd. newt gingrich and bill clinton talked every single day during that shut down. when chip o'neil closed down the government on ronald reagan -- >> well you will be -- >> we want to sit down and negotiate. >> that's what you'll do tomorrow and hopefully we can talk to you again tomorrow. that would be fascinating. thank you both indeed for joining me. >> thank you. i want to turn to john bayne's predecessor.

welcome to you. you were obviously in john boehner's shoes for a very long time. what do you make of what is going on? has he misplayed his hand here? >> first, i won't criticize john boehner. everybody has themselves into a situation. the problem is if you're going to -- there is a fight -- not policy but in philosophy, one party that says, look, the government is too big. we need to pair down the size of government. the debt is too big. $17 trillion is going to land on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren, and another side says we need to take care of people. we need bigger government, and we need to have education and health care and all these things. so there is a difference in philosophy here, and we're seeing this grand battle. now, to try to find a solution to a problem, and i can go back -- i was speaker for eight years during clinton's time and i was speaker during george w.

bush's time. if you're going to resolve a problem, you set something on the table, you're counter party sets something on the table and then you negotiate, you bargain. right now the republicans have set something on the table that nobody said well, we're not going to have a gun stuck to our head and negotiate anything. the only way that you find a resolve is for both parties to come forward, lay some things on the table, and what the negotiation might end up might not have anything to do with health care but other issues that are doable. so i think that's what has to happen and it's not happening now. >> right, but let me ask you in all the eight years you were the speaker, were you ever in a position where you even contemplated forcing a government shutdown because you didn't agree with an established law? >> well, look, we've never had to do that but, you know, we had -- >> would you have considered it, though? >> it depends on what the law was and depends on what kind of support you had from your party.

>> hypothetically, say it was a health care law like obama care that had been brought in by a president that had had the mandate of a reelection and indeed by the supreme court and by voting congress -- >> well, first of all. >> those circumstances, could you imagine using that trying to defund that or make it somehow not happen as a stick to shut down the government? because i don't think knowing my history of you, you would have done. >> yeah, you just made the argument. there was a health care battle. clinton health care, hilary care, if you called it, it went through regular order and passed through the senate. it went pasted through ways and means of the house but couldn't pass through commerce because we went regular order and able to put something on the table we thought was better than the hillary care and we brought democrats over to vote on our side and they couldn't get it through. we did have those philosophical battles but we went on regular

order, and the problem with the fiscal side today if you don't have the budget done by the 15th of march and reconcile with the senate by the 15th of april and then try to come together and take the months of may and june and july to do the appropriation process and then, you know, in september fine tune it and by the first of october, you have the budget done. you don't want to jam it up to the end because you jam it up to the end, you get in a box and you don't know where the hole to get out of is. let me tell you a quick story. i was 200 -- well 1999 my first real full year as speaker, we had a balanced budget agreement. means that the bill is passed out of the house, bill is passed out of the senate and the senate was 1%, our bill -- our budget was just a little over -- under a trillion dollars and so we are over on appropriated funds at 1%. our agreement said that we had to be on target.

so i couldn't get ahold of the president. the president in september went to africa and jack lu at that time was the director. i tried to get ahold of him and said look, we need to sit down and the president and i and whoever is involved need to sit down and come to an agreement and we don't want to be stuck the first of august because we don't have an agreement. he said look, the president is in africa and can't get ahold of him. i kept banging him. i said at 10:00 tomorrow morning the president will be in turkey and if you go through the white house switchboard, we can get the president and he'll be in a limousin limousine. so here i am in washington d.c. and the president in turkey, 10 thousand miles apart and i get the president on the phone and the president hey, how are you doing and i said mr. president i understand you had a great trip to africa and he said we did this and he said what can i do for you? i said we have the budget coming

up. i said i think we ought to do a 1% across the board cut to get us down to our target, and we can -- he said that 1% that's pretty high. you know -- i said what do you think mr. president? he said maybe .25%. i said okay, fine. we negotiated and came out at .86. the point is we sat together even 10,000 miles apart and came together and found a solution. >> well, it's a very good point and i wish this was going on now between the current president and the current speaker. it sounds like basic common sense and i command you on the second best bill clinton impression i heard in the last month. i think bonner slightly shades it but nobody knows more about this situation. thank you for that advice. >> my please sure. >> i hope the two leaders were watching. breaking news out of

florida. ten people trapped for two hours at a stuck roller coaster in florida. they moved the cars several feet, it's a metaphor for america's stuck government. the rescue efforts are continuing in florida and washington. why some on the hill are saying bring it on. tonight going toe to toe, i promise this will be lively and next giving all to the troops, how montel williams is helping families of fallen heroes who lost benefits during the shutdown. [ coughs, sneezes ]

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we would also be required to do other bad things to our people, just an example, we couldn't immediately pay death gratuities for people that die on active duty during the lapse. >> so clearly, washington knew the shutdown would put survivor benefits at risk. montel williams is a board member of the fisher house foundation, the charity playing survivor -- paying survivor benefits to the families of fallen troops during the shutdown and the creator of living well montel.com. this makes me very angry. i'm sure it makes very many america

american angry. you served for 22 years and part of the board that came to the rescue, this fisher house operation. this is ridiculous when a government shuts down and can't pay death payments to widows and children who lost their father? >> i don't know where to begin. when i came out you were interviewing and talking to two congressman. one of them had the audacity to take a shot at the secretary of defense hagel and say he did this for a political reason or he had the authority to do so. if he had the authority to do so, he would have done so without passing a bill today. you cannot find it written anymore. there was no discretionary opportunity to do this. >> his statement seems on the money to me. check hague p said i'm offended, outraged and embarrassed the defendant shut down prevented the government from fulfilling the most sec rate responsibility. >> it's not just disrespectful. this is a man right now

shepparding the 21 soldiers that died. the families, our soldiers over there putting their lives on the line every day. 21 soldiers died since the beginning of this shutdown and i hope if you take a look at the last six or seven months, this is a higher frequency death rate -- >> i think it's higher. it's 26. >> is it 26? >> as of right now, 26 people died since the shutdown started and as you say, this is the most important duty that many would say government could fulfill looking after as abraham lincoln said honoring those left behind from those who have fallen on the battle field. >> that's why i'm so proud to be a board member of fisher house who stepped up to the plate and they are there to provide services to our families and our fallen soldiers and our soldiers and family members of soldiers wounded. they built the fisher house center in dover delaware so that families can come and stay for free when they retrieve the precious remains of their loved ones and how dare we shut -- can

you imagine for a second, piers, your mom gets a call or somebody gets a call. their son just died. they go to the bank, they don't make enough money to get on the airplane to fly to dover, delaware. they look at the news and somebody says you're not even going to get the money we owe you for your loved one putting their life on the line to protect our democracy. i'm sorry, how dare they? yesterday, i saw several congressmen and senators blow it off. we'll take care of it. no, they won't. they will stop and bade aid this and next week they will close co things and put soldiers out on the street that can't eat and take care of their children. why don't we do something today? your show reaches so many people. maybe we can get americans to jump on devices and start tweeti tweeting e-mailing saying look, while you clowns act stupid

right now overall other issues, let sequester and pull out the military and say anything they need we fund. start there right now. play silly games with everything else, but remember, 26 have died, tomorrow another may die. the next day another will die for our democracy, our freedom. how dare they? i don't know, man. i'm at a loss. i started looking at the research and figure out why could our congressman senate do this? you know why? less than 20% of them ever put on a uniform. they had the oaudacity to send our children to die. they talk how american they are and how much they respect this constitution and not one of them was willing to step up to the plate and put on a uniform -- i'm sorry, 20%. go back 15 years and we had about 45%. go back 30 years, we had about

60%. i would bet you they would not leave a man behind the way these guys have. >> montel, tell me this. you're a smart guy. you're a smart businessman. you're a great american. how do you resolve what seems to be such an implacable divide between these two parties? >> unfortunately, you know, we talked about this on one of the previous -- >> we did. >> i said unfortunately, americans aren't paying attention to the fact that so many of these guys down there aren't doing this because of us. 26, 36, 41, 51 years at a job. are they really doing this to preserve their job and at the end of the day, how have they been affected? how many of them lost a child over there, and maybe a couple did, i'm sorry. i won't say one or two did. but how many on them went by and visited walter reed last week?

how many of them went up and saw the bodies and those transfers go back to the family in the last ten days? you know, i have -- i don't know how they will fix this. i think what we have to recognize is respect the law. you said the law in the land, you know, is there for affordable care act. you know, we're not even paying attention to this. this is like, you know, a small ball rolling downhill. we'll settle this, we will. two years from now. >> same thing. >> when baby boomers hit the age where 45 to 50% of them have one chronic illness and by 2020 when 60% have one chronic illness and 80% of them have two, health care, what are we talking about? it's shut down in america. we should be talking about what was the truth and that is we don't have a health care system, we have a sick care system and teach people how to relate to the health care system. >> montel, come back again

soon -- >> please. >> you speak for so many people. called "living well with montel". >> tweet. >> living well with montel.com. >> tweet, tell them leave the guys alone, please. >> thank you. coming up next, military families get stiffed while house members hit the gym paid for by your tax dollars. going toe to toe, i'll have that and on the default denials, you say they aren't afraid of the debt deadline. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ hooking up the country helping business run ♪ ♪ trains! they haul everything, safely and on time. ♪ tracks! they connect the factories built along the lines. and that means jobs, lots of people, making lots and lots of things. let's get your business rolling now, everybody sing. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ helping this big country move ahead as one ♪ ♪ norfolk southern how's that function? ♪

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water, the towels, they are not provided by gym ferries, they are provided by taxpayers. mr. speaker, if you and the house republicans are serious and not scenical about the shutdown, then shut down the house gym until this madness ends. >> democratic congressman outraged that house members are hitting the gym while government workers hit the unemployment line. it is madness. what will it take to end it? joining me two men that couldn't disagree more about it. larry ckudlow. larry, you tweeted short term clean cr and debt hike followed by negotiated long term and budget debt deal. did you see that the way through this? >> it's coming. i think we're close to a deal. that's one of the reasons obama is meeting with all the members in both parties, at both houses.

i think republicans are going to get a short-term clean bill for the debt and budget, maybe 45 days or whatever it is until the end of the year and then i think they will negotiate hard for at least a one-year debt bill and that's where you'll see the entitlement reforms, the tax reforms, the spending reallocation, they may loosen up on the budget sequester because i'm sympathetic to the military situation. >> it's disgusting. >> i think you'll see a lot action in the next 24 to 48 hours. >> the republic must be starting to panic because if you look at the latest polls, the american approval rating, 28% is the lowest its ever been. you look at the gallup poll here what americans say the top problems facing the country. the economy at 19%, dysfunctional government at 33%, nearly double the number of americans. >> piers -- >> that is more of a problem

now. that's pretty scandalous, isn't it? >> well, i think that the republican party is beginning not only to look at the polls and see that they are digging themselves a deeper and dealer hole and of course, when you dig a deep hole you don't want to continue to dig. the answer is to try to get out of the hole, they are also getting pressure from many of the their patrons in the business community and wall street. we're saying you guys are crazy. if you continue to try to hold up the government and endanger the entire full faith and credit of the united states with regard to the debt ceiling, you are putting yourselves and you're putting us and you're putting the economy, indeed the global economy at a great risk. we're already seeing the consequences and all of this pressure is building up, i think the republicans want a way of saving face, face saving way out of this and it may be that a clean continuing resolution, a clean debt ceiling bill, at least temporarily is going to

allow them that face saving -- >> obama that suggested it at the news conference. he said give me a clean bill for short time and then we'll start to negotiate. i want to disagree with my friend robert rice on a number of things. the polls show, yeah, the republican does blame the republican party and democrats and the spread is really about 10 points. obama's polls are coming down, breathtaking decline and one of them was a cnn poll. i don't think that has a thing to do with it. business community or not, the united states is nowhere close to defaulting on its treasury bonds. i want to make that point as clear as we can. >> tell me this -- >> answer this question for me. >> i mean -- >> if i may -- >> robert. >> silly how far away. >> let me clarify one point. does a failure to deal with the debt ceiling, does that automatically cause america to

default? >> no. >> explain to me -- >> it's a constant flow process. on average, i can't give you each 30 days off the top. on average the usa takes in, the government takes in $240 billion. that's a monthly average. and the interest expense we pay on debt is 35 billion. 240 versus 35. it's not close. that will be the first priority is to keep the full faith and credit going like any sensible country would. what president obama has done here, i think is very -- there is no danger of a threat to our treasuries. really, that's an awful trump. >> robert, i can see you -- >> if i may disagree with my good friend larry kudlow. >> you may. >> enormous respect but you're absolutely wrong on this, larry. first of all, there is a danger of default and the march rkets

reflecting that. not only that but we have seen the stock market since mid september. a win that republicans started to talk about a shutdown of the stock market also has lost ground. the dow is about 6% below what it was before and all of these things have some pressure on the republican party. let me get to the second point you just raised. there is, in fact, you are right that a default does not automatically triggered by october 17th that is jack lu and the treasury could prioritize interest payments on the debts but it would mean cutting dramatically everything else the government owes to social security recipients, to medicare. in other words, millions of people would be jeopardized -- >> no, no. >> even though creditors would get their money. >> any priority -- >> by a couple days. >> this would only buy a couple days. >> to larry.

>> any priorization will take care of the entitlement payments, medicaid medicare, social security. robert is trying to scare people. >> what is not prioritized? >> we will -- we are going through a debate in this country about the size and scope of government, and that includes some of the lesser programs, do we need everything we have? that's part of this debate. and i think you're going to see as this debate continues, and obama is going to be part of this finally, he'll get involved. there will be decisions made and you know what? we don't need everything we have in our government. and you know what? we don't need the crazy complex tax system that we have in our government, and you know what? we don't need five, six, 700 billion-dollar deficits every year. we don't need that. that's a major part of this debate. >> larry, great to see you -- >> robert.

>> let me agree with larry -- >> you can't say anything, robert. i'm shutting you down. >> i think it is -- >> robert, cnn shut down is being implemented with immediate effect -- >> you're giving larry kudlow the last word? oh my goodness. >> the good news is you can come back tomorrow or the next day and have another word. gentlemen, thank you very much. >> and good news on the breaking news earlier, everybody is off that roller coaster. so that shutdown has been saved is that now the new metaphor for the american economy? let's hope so. coming up, gun violence that shocked america. ten little girls shot in an amish schoolhouse. the shooter's widow breaks her silence. the interview. at university of phoenix, we know you can't afford

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he had taken extreme measures to fort fie this location and it seems perhaps he was preparing for a lengthy siege. he lined everybody up on the blackboard and let the male students go. >> it's a day that shocked america. charles roberts burst into a one-room house with a handgun, stun gun, knives and tool box as he shot ten school girls, killing five before killing himself. his widow is finally speaking

out after years of silence. she's the author of "one light still shines." welcome to you. >> thank you. >> incredibly did i hafficult to go through, write and talk about. when you look back to that day and think back to that day and you obviously had to recall it all for that book, did anything at all warn you that he could possibly be capable, this man you knew as your husband and a loving father, anything like this? >> not at all. you know, it was a really beautiful morning. the sky was clear. the sun was shining. it was an indian summer kind of day. the windows were opening and we could hear the sounds of harvesting. we got the kids ready to school. we walked them to the bus stop. he gave them a hug and kiss and said i love you before they boarded the bus. it did not at all seem to be the day it would turn into. >> when you got the phone call from him, suddenly his voice sounded very, very different.

describe that moment to me. >> yes, you know, he called me and said i'm not coming home. i knew he meant i'm not ever coming home. his voice was flat and cold and unlike anything i had ever heard from him before. >> what did you think was happening? >> i really had no idea. you know, as he started to talk, part of me was listening, part of me was stuck on the first phrase i'm not coming home. as the conversation wore on, i thought he would take his own life, but i never imagined it would involve other people, let alone children. >> the moment you realized the scale of what he had done, the utter horror shooting ten school girls, killing five, seriously wounding many others, what went through your mind? can go through your mind? this is somebody you thought you knew and loved? >> right. i was shocked. i couldn't have been more unprepared for that moment, but as the police were standing in my living room recounting details to me that were beyond horrid, you know, there wasn't

any time to deny or to pretend that it wasn't true because i was faced with the reality of everything that had happened. >> how did you even start the process of getting over this? because you had three kids yourself. >> uh-huh. >> what is the way that you come through this? i mean, how did you find it? >> you know, in the very first moments that afternoon i knew i was faced with two choices. i could choose to believe everything i read in the wrd of god and heard testified to from the pull pet that he would somehow come to rescue us or i could choose to believe we were going down like the fastest sinking ship and i couldn't figure out a way for god to rescue us, i knew i had nothing to lose by trusting him and i knew in that moment i was desperate. i had nothing, nothing to fall back upon. my whole world was shifting around me, but i knew that god was firm.

>> an extraordinary thing happened and other members of the amish community turned up at your house and unlike i think in many other similar circumstances, there wasn't raw hostility. >> no. >> in their mood, quite the opposite. tell me about that. >> i was at my parent's home and looking out their kitchen window and i saw amish men walking down the street. i knew they were coming to my parents' house. i said what do i do? do i talk to them? my dad said you can stay inside, i'll go out and talk with them. he knew them. they were from our community. as he met them on the driveway, i watched from the window and although i couldn't hear the words they spoke, i saw the embrace. i saw them put their arms around my dad and put their hands on his shoulder and everything about their gentleness conveyed the words i couldn't hear. >> an amazing thing to happen but indicative of the protective

blanket the amish community put around you at a time your husband decimated a large number of that community. >> absolutely. when my dad came back in, we all were waiting to hear from him what they said and he collected his thoughts and i knew it had been a deeply moving time for him, as well. he said they had forgiven charlie and they were extending grace and love to our family. they were concerned about me and concerned about our children. >> have you forgiven charlie? >> you know, i have, and the thing that stands out to me the most about all of this is that he was angry inside, and the anger ate away at him, and so to me i knew that i couldn't have a place of anger inside of me. i didn't want anything that was something he had dealt with. you know, forgiveness isn't something that's automatic and never happens again. it's a continual process. >> did you hate him to start with? >> no, i don't know that i hated

him. i felt a lot of emotions. i hated what he did but the man that walked into the schoolhouse that day was not the man i had been married to for almost ten years, you know, not the husband that i had seen, not the dad that i knew. >> he had shown signs of depression and in a letter that he left for you, he blamed the fact that you had lost this infant daughter called elyce. i happen to have a daughter called elyce so it rest nates with me the name, do you believe that? there were other things that he said in the letter that he had abused members of the family, which the police didn't think were actually true. do you think it was depression over the loss of your little girl, or do you think it was more complicated? >> no, i think it was the depression. i talked about it in great length explaining i saw times of peri periodic depressions over the years since the loss of elyce. it wasn't a depression that lasted and affected with his

ability to go to work or involve himself with the family but there were times it was there. in talking about it with counselors they suggested those years of untreated clinical depression resulted in a psychotic break. >> let's take a short break. we'll come back and talk about this how you turned your own life around and found love again. >> yes. >> also, what you think about the guns aspect of this. he went in armed to the teeth and was suffering from a form of mental illness. i want to talk to you about that, as well. my mantra? trust your instincts to make the call.

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back with me now marie monville the widow of the amish schoolhouse shooter. even when you're skrodescribed way do you worry for the rest of your life that's how you'll be labelled now? >> it was a really hard thing for me to see that in headlines months and even years after. it took a long time to kind of process that. but i knew that the label that was put over me i could choose to let it stay there or i could take it off. so it was my own healing and walking out from underneath that that has made me not mind so much. yeah, i don't really want to be called that. and my life is so much more than my past. my future is in another direction. but that will always be a part of my story. >> how have you dealt with this with your own children? obviously this was their father who suddenly didn't come home. >> right. >> and then presumably as they got older they know what he did.

how have you dealt with that? >> i knew they needed to know all the details of that before they went back to school even that first week. and we've talked about it a lot in the time since. i've tried to think through it if i were a child their age, what would be some of my questions or my thoughts. and especially in processing how other kids relate to that. it's really by the grace of the lord that we've all found healing and wholeness in life again. >> did they feel angry towards him for what he did not just to those four young girls but also to his own family? >> you know, i think there are a lot of emotions wrapped up in that. and i think we all feel different things at different times. it's just allowing ourselves the space and the resources to process through the things that we feel. >> every time there's a mass shooting, and unfortunately in america there are many of them. they come at a relentless pace. what goes through your mind? >> well, it takes me back to that moment. and my heart breaks for everyone involved in those situations.

you know, there's evil in the world. and i don't have any answers for that. but my heart breaks and my prayers go forth for all the families involved. >> he had an array of firearms on him. do you think it's too easy for people who have mental illness to get their hands on killing machines? >> you know, charlie had always enjoyed hunting. and that was something that he did with his dad. and the guns were locked at his parents' home in a safe. i don't have the answer for gun control. but i don't think that someone that's suffering from mental illness should have access to any kind of weapons. >> do you think it's too easy to get guns? given there are millions of people in america that have a form of mental illness? >> you know, i think -- i think that it's hard to keep them out of their hands, if that's their choice. >> you found love again. >> yes. >> you found another man. you got remarried.

how difficult was it for you to trust a man after what had happened to you? >> you know, i knew that if i wanted to have a relationship that was vibrant and alive with my husband dan they couldn't drag the past into my future, that there was no future in the past. and so it just was that process of trusting the lord and trusting god enough to be able to trust dan. but knowing that we had accountability and other people in our thrives were kind of reaffirming our decisions as well. >> did you ever meet any of the families of the girl whose were killed? >> yes, i have. i love the relationship they have with those families. and their compassion is unending. >> it's an extraordinary story. it's an eraordinary book. my heart goes out to you and your family and obviously to all the families so decimated by what happened. but it's a book also of inspiration and the power of faith and the power of love. >> thank you. >> i commend people to read it. marie monville, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you. >> we'll be right back. you've come to realize...

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