be catastrophic for the country? 71% of you say yes, 29% say i'm newt gingrich. join us again tomorrow. senator sheldon whitehouse and ted cruz will be in the "crossfire." welcome to our viewers. the showdown shutdown day 9. how long will this go on for and will we reach a deal before the deadline? i spoke with a democratic and a republican, we'll meet with him tomorrow. we begin with a powerful number. 26 died when the shutdown began. because of the shutdown, there is a terrible loss to the families they leave behind, the loss of benefits at the worst possible time. this country owes them a huge debt. the president made his inaugural

address with charity for all, let us care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and for his orphan. they made a deal with a private charity to reimburse the families until the shutdown is over. as far as a deal to end the shutdown itself and avoid the looming debt deadline, both sides seem as far apart as possible. i want to bring in two on either sides of the aisle. democrat jim heinz of the fshl services committee. gentlemen, welcome to you. let me start with you, if we may, james lang. we've spoken a few times through this process. you two are standing next to each other which i guess is a vaguely encouraging sign, but is there any real sign of movement here, or has everything moved now to a debt ceiling debate

which will be resolved around that deadline? >> i think it's more likely now we'll have some debt ceiling and some cr conversation. obviously we all wish this had been resolved a week ago or two weeks ago so we never actually walked into it. we'll probably say let's do some of this together, probably not long term, probably short term, to then continue to get things solved long term. i would like to get america back to work again. >> word is leaking out that president obama was putting on a vaguely conciliatory tone, saying, if it takes an extension, another six weeks to resolve the debt ceiling situation, we can alleviate some of the problems through that period, then that may be the way to go so the republicans can save face and we can get the government going again. is that your understanding of how it went? >> i think that's very accurate. i think the president showed some flexibility of the democratic caucus tonight, and he made the point he's made all along, which is he's not going to negotiate as long as one

party is saying that they will bring down the global economy through a default on our debt by not paying our bills or that they will hold up a shutdown of the government. with all the horrible implication thaz that involves, but if we can get past that, he is completely open to a six-week discussion on how we move forward to the real issues of the day. how do we make this country long-term fiscally sustainable? he is more than willing to negotiate, but rightly so, and this would be true if it was a republican president as well, he's not willing to negotiate when one party brings a hand grenade and puts it on the table and says, here are our demands. meet those demands or this grenade goes off. >> tell us this, jim hines. you were with the president today. did he at any stage mention this app appalling situation involving the payments of the dead service men and women. it's not a secret. there was a pentagon briefing saying this is what was going to

happen. how can the president feign ignorance on this and how can the families be treated this way? >> there is no feigned ignorance at all. it's a horrible situation bringing us to the realization we need to owe a debt of gratitude to the families bringing those abroad. but it's the head start families in my district who are choosing between keeping their job or looking after their children at home. the pain is massive around this, and the president knows that more than anyone else. he regularly writes to those who lost limbs or lost lives abroad, so he understands how very painful this situation is that we find ourselves in. >> collectively the republicans and democrats, by continuing this shutdown, have directly led to an appalling situation, one i think most americans find just completely indecent.

the idea that you could lose your life on the battlefield fighting for your country and your loved ones who are left behind are deprived payments because of scrabbling in washington. it's heart-wrenching, isn't it? >> it's horrible when a life is lost either way. there is no debt we can repay for the freedom of people around the world. but as we walked through this process two weeks ago, the house passed unanimously a resolution to be able to make sure all our military is paid and that we continue to move forward on that. the senate took that up, passed unanimously and the president signed it. then for the next week, eric holder and the department of justice interpreted this one-page bill that said all civilians are connected to the military and all civilian contractors continue on as normal. it was very clean, and we had all this basis on this slowdown, we had all this debate. we still believe the original bill we passed two weeks ago took care of all the issues

about this reimbursement to all these families, these payments to these families for the loss of a loved one, but we passed another bill today reinforcing again to say we felt like this was already taken care of two weeks ago. if somehow this was missed, let's make it clear again, this should be paid for. this is one of those many issues that as we're walking into this trying to lay the ground work to say we don't want a shutdown, but in case it occurs, this should not affect our military. they were the hardest hit during sequestration. they should not have to pay anything during the slowdown. >> the speaker of the house john boehner went to harry reid and said, i can get you a cr, a continuing resolution at the republican budget number, which is where we are today, so we can then negotiate a deal. and then the speaker went back to his republican conference and they said no to him. so we find ourselves in this world where the next step became, wait a minute. instead of just passing a clean cr, we need a repeal of obama care. oh, and bit way, if you want to raise the debt ceiling, we need

the keystone pipeline removed, and had that promise to harry reid been fulfilled, we never would have gotten to this shutdown. what we're trying to do right now and what the president is trying to do is find a way for everybody to back down this tree that the speaker climbed up to and get back to a point where we restart the government, we take the debt ceiling off the table and we have that six, seven, eight, ten-week negotiation that allows us to deal with the instability of this country. >> you're going to be at the republican delegation. clearly the president has made it crystal clear repeatedly that any amendments to obama care are not on the table. he will not have this held as some metaphorical gun to his head. knowing that you know this before you head in tomorrow, what will the struggle be that cause such havoc to all americans? >> we're actually hopeful this is the final negotiating time.

the president wanted the 250-person house to come over and meet with him. that's more like a lecture time or q and a session than a negotiation. so we're going to bring over 17 people to negotiate with the president. at moment it started, we said let's just conference, let's work this out the way that every house and senate and president has worked this out since the 1700s. now, when you get to an impasse, you sign negotiators between the two, those negotiators meet, they work out the difference, they bring it back to the house and senate and we pass that. the senate has been unable and unwilling to do that. the president said over and over he won't negotiate. which is odd to us. newt gingrich and bill clinton talked every single day during that shutdown period. when tip o'neil closed the government on ronald reagan, they talked every single day. we want to be able to sit down and negotiate this. >> you'll be doing that tomorrow and hopefully we'll talk to you again after you speak to the

president. it would be fascinating. i want to turn to john boehner's predecessor as spokesman for speaker of the house. you were in john boehner's shoes for a very long time. what do you make of what's going on? has he misplayed his hand here? >> i'm not going to criticize john boehner. everybody has gotten themselves into a situation. the problem is, if you're going to -- there is a fight not in policy but in philosophy. one party says, look, the government is too big. we need to pare down the size of government. the debt is too big. $17 trillion is going to land on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren, and another side says, we need to take care of people, we need bigger government and we need to have education and health care and all these things. so there is a difference in philosophy here. and we're seeing this grand battle. now, to try to find a solution to a problem, and i can go back. i was speaker for eight years.

i was speaker during clinton's time and i was speaker during george w. bush's time. but if you're going to resolve a problem, you set something on the table, your counterparty sets something on the table and then you negotiate, you bargain. right now the republicans have set something on the table that nobody said, well, we're not going to have a gun stuck to our head, we're not going to negotiate anything. the only way that you find to resolve is for both parties to come forward, lay some things on the table, and what the negotiation might end up might not have anything to do with health care at all. it might be some of these other issues that are doable. so i think that's what has to happen, and it's not happening right now. >> right, but let me ask you, in all the eight years that you were the speaker, were you ever in a position where you even contemplated forcing a government shutdown because you didn't agree with an established law? >> well, look, we never had to do that, but we had our -- >> would you consider doing that? >> well, it depends on what the

law was, and it depends on what kind of support you had from your party. >> hypothetically, let's say it was a health care law like obama care that had been brought in by a president, it had the mandate of a reelection and, indeed, by the supreme court and by voting congress. in those circumstances, could you imagine using that, trying to defund that or make it somehow not happen as a stick to shut down the government. i didn't think knowing my history of you, you would have done it. >> you just made the argument. there was a health care battle. the hillary clinton health care, if you call it. it passed through the senate, it passed through ways and means in the house but couldn't pass through energy and commerce. because we went regular order. and we were able to put something on the table we thought was better than the hillary care, and we brought

democra democratsover over to vote on side and they couldn't get it through. so we did have those philosophical battles. but they went on regular order. the problem with the fiscal side today, if you don't have your budget done by the 15th of march and reconcile by the 15th of april and then take the months of june and july to do the appropriations process, then in september fine-tune it. and by the first of october, you have your budget done. you don't want to jam it up to the end, because you jam it up to the end, you get in a box and you don't know where the hole to get out of is. let me tell you a quick story. i was -- 1999, my first full year as speaker, we had a balanced budget agreement. it means the bills passed out of the house, bills passed out of the senate, and the senate was 1%. our budget was just a little over -- i'm sorry, under $1 trillion. so we were over about 1%.

our agreement said we had to be on target. so i couldn't get ahold of the president. the president in september went to africa, and jack lew at that time was the o and b director, so i'm trying to get ahold of jack lew and i said, look, we need to sit down. the president and the i and whoever else is involved in this, we need to sit down and come to an agreement. we don't want to be stuck here in august with no government open because we don't have the agreement. he said, well, the president is in africa, we can't get ahold of him. finally i kept banging him and he said, you know, the president is going to be in turkey at 10:00 tomorrow morning. if you go through the white house switchboard, we can get the president and he'll be in the back of a limousine. 10:00 in the morning in anchor, turkey was actually 2:00 in the morning in washington, d.c. here i am in washington, d.c., the president is in turkey. we're 10,000 miles apart. i get the president on the phone. mr. president, i understand you had a great trip to africa.

yeah, what can i do for you? i said, we have the budget coming up and we need to get this thing reconciled. he said, well, what do you think we ought to do? i said, i think we ought to do a 1% across the board cut. that will get us down to our target. he said, well, that 1%, that's pretty high, you know. i said, what do you think, mr. president? he said, maybe a .25%. i said, no, fine. so we negotiated, but we did, we came out of .86. the point is we sat together even 10,000 miles apart and came together and found a solution. >> well, it's a very good point and i wish this was going on now between the current president and the current speaker. it sounds like basic common sense to me. i also commend you, by the way, on the second best bill clinton impression i've heard in the last month. fascinating talking to you. no one knows more about what the situation is like than you, so thank you for that advice. i hope the two leaders were watching. thank you very much.

next, giving is all for the troops. how montel williams is helping with benefits in the shutdown. [ male announcer ] this is brad.

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we would also be required to do other bad things to our people, just an example, we couldn't immediately pay death gratuities for people that die on active duty during the lapse. >> so clearly, washington knew the shutdown would put survivor benefits at risk. my next guest is doing something about that. montel williams is a board member of the fisher house foundation, the charity playing survivor -- paying survivor benefits to the families of fallen troops during the shutdown and the creator of living well montel.com. this makes me very angry. i'm sure it makes very many

americans angry. you're a former naval commander, you were in the marine corps. you served for 22 years and you're part of the board that came to the rescue, this fisher house operation. this is ridiculous when a government shuts down and can't pay death payments to widows and children who lost their father? >> i don't know where to begin. when i came out you were interviewing and talking to two congressman. one of them had the audacity to take a shot at the secretary of defense hagel and say he did this for a political reason or he had the authority to do so. if he had the authority to do so, he would have done so without having to pass a bill today. the authority is not there. you cannot find it written anywhere. there was no discretionary opportunity for him to be able to do this. >> his statement seemed pretty on the money to me. chuck hagel said i'm offended, outraged and embarrassed the government shutdown prevented the government from fulfilling

the most sacred responsibility in a timely manner. >> it's not just disrespectful. this is a man right now shepparding the 21 soldiers that died. the families, our soldiers over there putting their lives on the line every day. 21 soldiers died since the beginning of this shutdown and i hope if you take a look at the last six or seven months, this is a higher frequency death rate than we've seen in the last six or seven months. >> i think it's even higher. i think it's 26 people. as of right now, 26 people died since the shutdown started. as you say, this is the most important duty that many would say government could fulfill looking after, as abraham lincoln said, honoring those left behind from those who fell on the battlefield. >> that's why i'm so proud to be a board member of fisher house who stepped up to the plate like they always do when rubber meets the road, and they are there to provide services to our families of soldiers who were killed or wounded. they're the ones who built the fisher house in dover, delaware so families can stay for free

when they retrieve the precious remains of their loved ones. and can you imagine for a second, piers, your mom or somebody gets a call their son just died. they go to the bank. first, they don't make enough money to take a plane to fly to dover, delaware. they look at the news and somebody says, you're not even going to get the money we owe you for your loved one putting their life on the line to protect our democracy. i'm sorry. how dare they? yesterday i saw several congressmen and senators just blow this off. oh, we're going to take care of it. no, they're not. they're going to stopgap, band-aid this, and next week they'll close commisaries, they'll close pxs. children and families won't be able to eat. your show reaches so many people. maybe we can get americans out there who being jump on their

devices and start tweeting and e me-mailing their congressmen an say, look, while you clowns look so stupid on all the issues, let's sequester the military and say anything they need we fund. start there right now. play your silly games with everything else, but remember, 26 have died. tomorrow another may die. the next day another is going to die for our democracy, our freedom? how dare they? i don't know, man. i'm at a loss because as i started looking at the research to try to figure out why could our congressmen do this? you know why? because less than 20% of them ever put on a uniform. they had the audacity to send our children off to die and none of them put on a uniform. talking about how american they are, how much they respect this constitution and not one of them was willing to step up to the plate and put on a uniform -- i'm sorry -- 20% were. 20%? go back 15 years and we had about 45%.

go back 30 years, we had about 60%. i would bet you they would not leave a man behind the way these guys have. >> montel, tell me this. you're a smart guy. you're a smart businessman, a great american. how do you resolve what seems to be such an implacable divide between these two parties? >> unfortunately, you know, we talked about this on one of the previous visits here. i said, unfortunately, americans aren't paying attention to the fact that so many of these guys down there aren't doing this because of us. 26, 36, 46, 51 years at a job? are they really doing this to preserve their job, and at the end of the day, how have they been affected? how many of them lost a child over there? and maybe a couple did, i'm sorry. i shouldn't say because i'm not going to disrespect. one or two did.

but how many of them went by and visited walter reed last week? how many of them went up and saw the bodies in those transfers go back to the family in the last 10 days? i have -- i don't know. i don't know how they're going to fix this. i think what we have to recognize is just respect the law. you said it earlier. the law of the land, you know, is there for affordable care act, and we aren't even paying attention to this. this is like, you know, a snowball rolling down a hill. we're going to settle this. we're going to settle this. we will, but then two years from now -- >> same thing. >> -- when baby boomers hit the age where 45 to 50% of them have one chronic illness, and by 2020 when 60% have one chronic illness and 80% of them have two, health care, what are we talking about? it's shut down in america. we should be talking about what was the truth, and that is we don't have a health care system, we have a sick care system and start teaching people how to

relate to the health care system. >> montel, come back again soon because you speak for so many people. his show is called "living well with montel." >> tell them leave the guys alone, please. >> montel, good to see you. thank you very much. coming next, military families get stiffed while house members hit the gym all paid for by your tax dollars. kudlow go toe to toe on that, and they say they're not afraid of the deadline. build character through quality. and earn the right to be called a classic. the lands' end no iron dress shirt. starting at 49 dollars.

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water, the towels, they are not provided by gym fairies, they're provided by taxpayers. mr. speaker, if you and the house republicans are serious and not cynical about the shutdown, then shut down the house gym until this madness ends. >> democratic congressman outraged that house members are hitting the gym while government workers hit the unemployment line. it is madness. what will it take to end it? joining me two men that couldn't disagree more about it. from the secretary of labor and also larry kudlow, the host of cnbc's larry kudlow. welcome, both of you. larry, you tweeted short term clean cr and debt hike followed by negotiated long term and budget debt deal might be the answer. did you see that as the way through this? >> it's coming. i think we're close to a deal.

that's one of the reasons obama is meeting with all the members in both parties, at both houses. i think republicans are going to get a short-term clean bill for the debt and budget, maybe 45 days or whatever it is until the end of the year, and then i think they will negotiate hard for at least a one-year debt bill and that's where you'll see the entitlement reforms, the tax reforms, the spending reallocation. they may loosen up on the budget sequester because i'm sympathetic to this military story. it's insanity what's going on. >> it's disgusting. >> i think you'll see a lot of action in the next 24 to 48 hours. >> the public must be starting to panic because if you look at the latest polls, the american approval rating, 28% is the lowest its ever been. you look at the gallup poll here what americans say the top problems facing the country. the economy at 19%, dysfunctional government at 33%, nearly double the number of americans.

>> piers -- >> that is more of a problem now. that's pretty scandalous, isn't it? >> well, i think that the republican party is beginning not only to look at the polls and see that they are digging themselves a deeper and deeper hole, and, of course, when you dig a deep hole, you don't want to continue to dig. the answer is to try to get out of the hole. they are also getting pressure from many of their patrons in the business community and wall street. they're saying, you guys are crazy. if you continue to try to hold up the government and endanger the entire full faith and credit of the united states with regard to the debt ceiling, you are putting yourselves and you're putting us and you're putting the economy, indeed the global economy at a great risk. we're already seeing the consequences and all of this pressure is building up. i think the republicans want a way of saving face, face saving way out of this, and it may be

that a clean continuing resolution, a clean debt ceiling bill, at least temporarily, is going to allow them that face saving -- >> it was obama that suggested it at the news conference. he said give me a clean bill for a short time and then we'll start to negotiate. i want to disagree with my friend robert rice on a number of things. the polls show, yeah, the republican does blame the republican party and democrats and the spread is really about 10 points. obama's polls are coming down, breathtaking decline and one of them was a cnn poll. i don't think that has a thing to do with it. toipt -- i want to make another point, too. business community or not, the united states is nowhere close to defaulting on its treasury bonds. i want to make that point as clear as we can. >> tell me this -- >> answer this question for me. >> i mean -- >> if i may -- >> robert. >> i'll show you how far away they are. >> let me clarify one point. does a failure to deal with the

debt ceiling, does that automatically cause america to default? >> no. >> explain to me -- >> it's a constant flow process. on average, i can't give you each 30 days off the top. on average the usa takes in, the government takes in $240 billion. that's a monthly average. and the interest expense we pay on debt is 35 billion. 240 versus 35. it's not even close. that will be the first priority is to keep the full faith and credit going like any sensible country would. what president obama has done here, i think, is very duplicitous. there is no danger of a threat to our treasure reez. really, that's an awfully trumped-up charge. >> robert, i can see you -- >> if i may disagree with my good friend larry kudlow. >> you may. >> enormous respect but you're absolutely wrong on this, larry. first of all, there is a danger

of default and the markets are reflecting that. interest rates are beginning to spike. not only that but we have seen the stock market since mid-september when they started talking bay shutdown, the stock market has lost ground. the dow is about 6% below what it was before, and all these things have some pressure on the republican party. let me get to the second point you just raised. there is, in fact, you are right that a default is not automatically triggered by october 17th that is jack lu and the treasury could prioritize interest payments on the debts but it would mean cutting dramatically everything else the government owes to social security recipients, to medicare recipients. in other words, millions of people would be jeopardized even though creditors would get their

money. only by a couple days. >> to larry. >> any priorization will take care of the entitlement payments, medicaid, medicare, social security. robert is wrong. trying to scare people. >> what is not prioritized? >> we will -- we are going through a debate in this country about the size and scope of government, and that includes some of the lesser programs. do we need everything we have? that's part of this debate. and i think you're going to see, as this debate continues, and obama is going to be part of this finally, he'll get involved. there will be decisions made and you know what? we don't need everything we have in our government. and you know what? we don't need the crazy complex tax system that we have in our government, and you know what? we don't need five, six, 700 billion-dollar deficits every year. we don't need that. that's a major part of this debate. >> larry, great to see you --

>> robert. >> let me agree with larry -- >> you can't say anything, robert. i'm shutting you down. >> i think it is -- >> robert, a cnn shutdown is being implemented with immediate effect because we have to go to commercial. >> you're giving larry kudlow the last word? oh my goodness. >> the good news is you can come back tomorrow or the next day and have another word. gentlemen, thank you very much. coming up, it shocked america. ten little girls were shot at an amish schoolhouse. the shooter's widow breaks her silence. which is why we're proud to help connect our students with leading employers across the nation. next stop financial center.

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he had taken extreme measures to fortify this location and it seems perhaps he was preparing for a lengthy siege. he lined everybody up on the blackboard and let the male students go. >> it's a day that shocked america. october 2, 2006. charles roberts burst into a one-room schoolhouse in pennsylvania. he came in with a handgun, stun gun, knives and tool box as he shot ten school girls, killing

five before killing himself. his widow is finally speaking out after years of silence. she's the author of "one light still shines." welcome to you. >> thank you. >> incredibly difficult thing to go through, write and talk about. when you look back to that day and think back to that day and you obviously had to recall it all for that book, did anything at all warn you that he could possibly be capable, this man you knew as your husband and a loving father, anything like this? >> not at all. you know, it was a really beautiful morning. the sky was clear. the sun was shining. it was an indian summer kind of day. the windows were open and we could hear the sounds of harvesting. we got the kids ready to school. we walked them to the bus stop. he gave them a hug and kiss and said i love you before they boarded the bus. it did not at all seem to be the day it would turn into. >> when you got the phone call from him, suddenly his voice sounded very, very different. describe that moment to me. >> yes, you know, he called me and said i'm not coming home. i knew he meant i'm not ever coming home. his voice was flat and cold and unlike anything i had ever heard from him before.

>> what did you think was happening? >> i really had no idea. you know, as he started to talk, part of me was listening, part of me was stuck on the first phrase i'm not coming home. as the conversation wore on, i thought he would take his own life, but i never imagined it would involve other people, let alone children. >> the moment you realized the scale of what he had done, the utter horror shooting ten school girls, killing five, seriously wounding many others, what went through your mind? what can go through your mind? this is somebody you thought you knew and lovrd. >> right. i was shocked. i couldn't have been more unprepared for that moment, but as the police were standing in my living room recounting details to me that were beyond horrid, you know, there wasn't any time to deny or to pretend that it wasn't true because i was faced with the reality of everything that had happened.

>> how did you even start the process of getting over this? because you had three kids yourself. >> uh-huh. >> what is the way that you come through this? i mean, how did you find it? >> you know, in the very first moments that afternoon i knew i was faced with two choices. i could choose to believe everything i read in the word of god and heard testified to from the pulpit was true, that he would somehow come to rescue us, or i could choose to believe we were going down like the fastest sinking ship. and i couldn't figure out a way for god to rescue us, but i knew i had nothing to lose by trusting him and i knew in that moment i was desperate. i had nothing, nothing to fall back upon. my whole world was shifting around me, but i knew that god was firm. >> an extraordinary thing happened and other members of

the amish community turned up at your house, skpun like, i think, in many other similar circumstances, there wasn't raw hostility. >> no. >> in their mood, quite the opposite. tell me about that. >> i was at my parent's home and looking out their kitchen window and i saw amish men walking down the street. i knew they were coming to my parents' house. i said what do i do? do i talk to them? my dad said you can stay inside, i'll go out and talk with them. he knew them. they were from our community. as he met them on the driveway, i watched from the window and although i couldn't hear the words they spoke, i saw the embrace. i saw them put their arms around my dad and put their hands on his shoulder and everything about their gentleness conveyed the words i couldn't hear. >> an amazing thing to happen but indicative of the protective blanket the amish community put around you at a time your husband decimated a large number of that community. >> absolutely. when my dad came back in, we all

were waiting to hear from him what they said and he collected his thoughts and i knew it had been a deeply moving time for him, as well. he said they had forgiven charlie and they were extending grace and love to our family. they were concerned about me and concerned about our children. >> have you forgiven charlie? >> you know, i have, and the thing that stands out to me the most about all of this is that he was angry inside, and the anger ate away at him, and so to me i knew that i couldn't have a place of anger inside of me. i didn't want anything that was something he had dealt with. you know, forgiveness isn't something that's automatic and never happens again. it's a continual process. >> did you hate him to start with? >> no, i don't know that i hated him. i felt a lot of emotions. i hated what he did but the man that walked into the schoolhouse that day was not the man i had been married to for almost ten years, you know, not the husband

that i had seen, not the dad that i knew. >> he had shown signs of depression, and in a letter that he left for you, he blamed the fact that you had lost this infant daughter called elyse. i happen to have a daughter called elyse, so it resonated with me, the name. do you believe that? there were other things that he said in the letter that he had abused members of the family, which the police didn't think were actually true. do you think it was depression over the loss of your little girl, or do you think it was more complicated? >> no, i think it was the depression. i talked about it at great length with the counselors, explaining to them that i saw periodic depressions over the years since elyse had died. it wasn't a depression that lasted and it didn't affect his ability to go to work or involve himself with the family, but there were times it was there. in talking with the counselors,

they suggested to me that those years of clinical depression resulted in a psychotic break. >> let's take a short break. we'll come back and talk about this how you turned your own life around and found love again. >> yes. >> also, what you think about the guns aspect of this. he went in armed to the teeth and was suffering from a form of mental illness. i want to talk to you about that, as well. [ paper rustles, outdoor sounds ]

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that would be the widow of the amish schoolhouse shooter. even when you're described that way, do you worry that for the rest of your life that's how you'll be labeled now, is the amish mass shooter's widow? >> it was a real hard thing for me to see that in headlines, months, and even years after. it took a long time to kind of process that, but i knew the label that was put over me, i could either choose to let it stay there or i could take it off. so, you know, it was my own

healing and walking out from underneath that that has made me not mind so much. yeah, i don't really want to be called that, and my life is so much more than my past, you know. my future is in another direction. but that will always be a part of my story. >> how have you dealt with this with your own children? obviously this was their father who suddenly didn't come home, and then presumably as they got older, they know what he did. how have you dealt with that? >> i knew they needed to know all the details of that before they went back to school even that first week. we've talked about it a lot in the time since. i've tried to think through it if i were a child their age, what would be some of my questions and my thoughts. especially in processing how other kids relate to them. it's really by the grace of the lord that we've all found healing and wholeness in life again. >> do they feel angry towards him for what he did, not just to those poor young girls but also to his own family? >> you know, i think there are a lot of emotions wrapped up in

that, and i think we all feel different things at different times, and it's just allowing ourselves the space and the resources to process through the things that we feel. >> every time there is a mass shooting, and unfortunately in america, there are many of them. they come at a relentless pace. what goes through your mind? >> well, it takes me back to that moment, and my heart breaks for everyone involved in those situations. you know, there is evil in the world, and i don't have any answers for that, but my heart breaks and my prayers go forth for all the families involved. >> he has -- well, he had an array of firearms on him. do you think it's too easy for people who have mental illness to get their hands on killing machines? >> you know, charlie had always enjoyed hunting and that was something he did with his dad, and the guns were locked at his parents' home in a safe. i don't have the answer for gun

control, but i don't think someone that's suffering from mental illness should have access to any kind of weapons. >> do you think it's too easy to get guns given there are millions of people in america that have a form of mental illness? >> you know, i think that it's hard to keep them out of their hands if that's their choice. >> you found love again. >> yes. >> you found another man. you got remarried. how difficult was it for you to trust a man after what had happened to you? >> i knew that if i wanted to have a relationship that was vibrant and alive with my husband dan that i couldn't drag the past into my future, that there was no future in the past. so it just was that process of trusting the lord and trusting god enough to be able to trust dan. but knowing that, you know, we had accountability and other people in our lives that were kind of reaffirming our decision as well. >> did you ever meet any of the families of the girls that were killed? >> yes, i have.

i love the relationship i have with those families, and their compassion is unending. >> it's an extraordinary story, it's an extraordinary book. my heart goes out to you and your family, obviously to all the families that were so decimated by what happened. but it's also a book of inspiration, and the power of faith and the power of love, and i commend people to read it. marie monville, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. we'll be right back. alka seltzer plus night fights your worst cold symptoms, plus has a decongestant. [ inhales deeply ] oh. what a relief it is.

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