>> october 12, 2015. from comedy central's world news headquarters in new york, this is "the daily show" with trevor noah. (cheers and applause) >> trevor: welcome to "the daily show"! i'm trevor noah! our guest tonight, ta-nehisi coates is joining us! (cheers and applause) first, what a crazy weekend it was. the entire country was collectively hypnotized by justin bieber's latest release, his penis, which was the most talked about canadian chubby since rob ford. then mexico beat the u.s. in the

playoff and it wasn't just about soccer. it was about pride. if donald trump had been coach, this wouldn't have happened because they would have had a more effective war. but the biggest story of the weekend took place in d.c., the 20th anniversary of the million man march. ou>> the million man march, this have turned around. >> the overwhelming race factor is not a problem anymore. >> racism is on its last leg. to commemorate this victory and end racism, i join hundreds of thousands of people on the national mall and boy were they excited to celebrate! >> if you're here just to celebrate, you are here for the wrong reason! >> was this a celebration? e're not here to celebrate. there is nothing to celebrate at

this point. we're still right fight for progress and we're not getting that. >> they want to promote everything is fine, we have a black president, racism is over. things are regressing. so that's why we're all here. >> we've got an empire, though. need more work. that's what we're here for. >> it's not enough. what's going on here? dr. dre was at the first million man march and wears real african clothing so you know he knows what's up. >> we did not get everything we want, we chose unity but ritual is to remind us this struggle is far from over. you can't stop until the victory is won, as in the black national anthem. >> i thought that was by will smith. >> employment and poverty and incarceration for black

americans hasn't changed since the last black march on washington so this time they'll get it right and starts with a goal and slogan. >> justice or else. ! or else! what do you mean? es the rest of the slogan mean? >> justice or else. america better get it together. >> or else what? we're just letting you know what's going to happen. >> it means we're not standing for this anymore. >> if all of us don't receive justice, the constitution is a lie and everything this country is supposed to stand for is a lie. >> apparently justice or else means a few different things to people at the march but what does it mean for the intended recipients of the message? if i were to say "justice or else" to you, what would you assume the "or else" part to be?

>> violence. the "or else" part is a little problematic. >> it sounds threatening. like riots, like violence (bleep) going down. >> they could be mugged, could be robbed, probably, they could be trampled. >> fatality, blood, gore, death. all under "or else"? there is a wide category of interpretations. >> slogans demanding fairness and equality can easily be interpreted by certain people as murder and maihem. i met with the organizers to learn the meaning. >> hold your money on the biggest day of the year and if we're not getting justice, we will not shop until you stop. >> shopping, the or else is

about withholding money on black friday? >> this is going to be a peaceful gathering as it was 20 years ago in 1995. >> if this was a financial boycott, why didn't we put that down there, justice or else we don't buy anymore jordans. >> maybe next time it won't be us out here demanding justice, it will be nordstroms and wal-mart and foot locker, nike. >> new balance. black people don't wear new balance. >> they might. aking away money is not a bad idea. what else can we add to more effectively motivate people. what things can we take away from white people to help them spring to action? >> a lot of things white people love like american apparel. >> their cable tv. maybe panera bread.

some pumpkin spice lattes or something like that. >> can you just write that down on the sign? we're going to make custom signs that are more effective, right? armed with a new slogan, i returned to the capital seeking justice. >> justice or else! no american apparel! we're taking back the game! we're taking 'em back! >> pay attention, america, or else. (cheers and applause) >> trevor: for more on this story please welcome roy wood, jr., everybody! (cheers and applause) roy, a lot of people understand the need for another million man march. hasn't there been any progress made by black people in america? >> some progress. barack obama is president,

dr. dre is a billionaire and sheneneh owns abc. >> trevor: disney does. i understand the need for justice or else. what i was struck by is how differently white and black people interpreted the or else. >> that's why when it comes to dealing with majority issues we have to be perfectly clear, gay people got it right. nobody went to gay pride and thought, i'm going to get murdered! >> trevor: (laughter) >> trevor: that doesn't work for everyone. especially minorities. i've seen white pride gathering, it wasn't floats. but the strategy is getting black people to boycott.

for justice and equality. is that feasible? >> it will take a lot. it won't be easy to boycott places that are boycotting you. >> best buy and wal-mart welcome black people. >> they welcome black money. we need them on our side. but to make it happen, black people need to be willing to sacrifice. i'll start right now. i don't need target, nike, i don't need this iphone. it's a digital leash, represents corporate greed and if giving it up motivates more people to get involved i'm willing to go without it until there is justice! >> trevor: wow. (phone vibrating) >> trevor: what name's on the phone?

>> thirsty lisa. >> trevor: i'm going to have to start my boycott tomorrow. hey!

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(cheers and applause) >> trevor: welcome back to "the daily show"! now, we all have our one reality show we hate to watch, and for me none is more addictive than keeping up with the republicans. (laughter) i like quality television. the epic dramas with complex characters and story lines and my favorite is starting tomorrow night. >> we're aday away from the first democratic debate. >> countdown to the big shutdown. >> the very first time the democratic candidates will face off on the same stage. >> what happens is they could change the course of the democratic rails. >> i'm going to watch with my popcorn, milk duds and my dog. (laughter) >> trevor: yea! i got my popcorn, i got my milk duds, i got my dog, democratic debate, let's do this! (cheers and applause) yes! oh, by the way, i rescued this dog, yeah, then i killed him and had him stuffed. of course, the star of the

democratic show is hillary clinton. we have been following her dramatic story line for more than 20 years. there was lewinsky, benghazi, e-mails-y, and america can't get enough of her. she inspired an actual tv character. whoa, two, in fact. well, actually three. four, now that i think about it. (laughter) five -- oh, no, hey, no! that's not fair, no! that's better. now hillary clinton's reign is challenged by a dashing young rebel. >> bernie sanders surging against hillary clinton. >> thousands flocking to see the self ascribed democratic socialist. >> raised $26 million in the last quarter. >> a million online donors, faster than any candidate ever. >> trevor: oh, my god, bernie! he's so popular! he won home coming queen at countryside high. he boat out stacey.

no, not stacey s., stacey r. exactly, i know, seriously... help me... (laughter) i can't even... stop doing this... stop -- doing -- this... what's impressive about bernie sanders is the fact that he raised $26 million. yeah, that's enough money to give $1 to every single republican candidate. so the stage has been set. it's clinton up against sanders and cnn is ready. >> the cnn democratic presidential debate tomorrow night starting 8:30 only on cnn. >> trevor: wait, wait, wait! go back. go back! yeah! cnn, what was that? it was like a face then a face

then nah, nah, nah. you are heartless. any one of these people could be president and you list them like the legal conditions of a used car ad. clinton, sanders, tomorrow, on cnn! (talking fast) >> trevor: what the hell is that? (cheers and applause) >> trevor: the weirdest thing about this cnn debate is how they're hyping the people who are there but aren't there. >> cnn is prepared in the event of a joe biden candidacy. podium 6, we have it waiting in the wings in case vice president joe biden decides to join us. we have been showing the viewers there is plenty of space on the stage if the vice president decides to join us. >> i've even seen a spare lectern lurking off stage if he wants to join us. >> he can join almost up until the last minute. in case of joe biden we're breaking out podium number 6.

>> trevor: cnn, such amateurs. you can't get joe biden, the podium waiting in the wings. you get joe biden with wings waiting in the podium. (cheers and applause) that's just not particularly funny. we'll be right back. where were you born?

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the drought is affecting at pg&e we've definitely

put a focus on helping our agricultural customers through the drought. when they do an energy efficiency project and save that money they feel it right in their pocket book. it's exciting to help a customer with an energy efficiency project because not only are they saving energy but they are saving water. we have a lot of projects at pg&e that can help them with that and that's extremely important while we're in a drought. it's a win for the customer and it's a win for california. together, we're building a better california. (cheers and applause) >> trevor: welcome back. my guest tonight is the best selling author of "between the world and me," also the national correspondent for "the atlantic" magazine, his new story is

called the black family in the age of mass incarceration. please welcome ta-nehisi coates! (cheers and applause) >> trevor: ah! this is it, man. >> i know. >> trevor: this is tough for me. >> okay. >> trevor: you are one to have the smartest people i know. >> i'm a genius, in fact. (laughter) you're in trouble. >> trevor: i'm in so much trouble right now. let's get into this, ta-nehisi coates. question one, do you hate white people? (laughter) >> um... (laughter) no. >> trevor: no? no, of course not. i had to think about it. >> trevor: i'm a big fan of your book, and then you don't even take a moment out of your life. you moved to paris, didn't you? >> that was the moment i was taking out of my life to move, move to paris. >> trevor: why?

o take a moment out of my life. that was exactly it. the book came out, and to get away for a little bit. >> trevor: and to get back in your life, you are yiing an article about mass incarceration in america. >> right. >> trevor: just to loosen up. right. >> trevor: explain why this is such a big issue. i know it's hard to explain it, but explain why mass incarceration is such a big issue. >> america is a country founded on the notion of liberty but it is the most prolific jailer in the world. americans incarcerate -- 700,000 of our citizens is incarcerated. our next competitor is around 400,000. >> trevor: so we're beating russia? >> right. excellent. (laughter) if you look at african-american males, the numbers shoot up 4,000 per 100,000.

60% will do time in prison, high school dropouts, you're talking about a massive threat. we comprise 5% of the world's population and 25% of the incarcerated population. >> trevor: but it's such a big thing to look at and i'm trying to delve into the source or the root of the problem. reading the article was fascinating for me because i had never thought of incarceration as some sort of sinister plot. >> right. >> trevor: i just thought it was one of those things. oh, a lot of black people in jail. >> right. >> trevor: it's just the luck of the draw. >> right. >> trevor: but in the article, that's not how you laid it out. it seems more planned than that. >> yeah, and by planned, we don't mean like some sinister kabal with white people sitting in the room saying this is what we'll do to the blacks next. >> trevor: right. but there is a room like that -- carry on.

(laughter) >> we're talking about heritage and history in this country. african-americans have been in this country since 1619 since the time of slavery, jim crow, civicivil rights movement into e present. there is been a view of black people as being leaned toward criminal that and if they weren't enslaved they would rape and rob and pillage. >> trevor: if somebody said to you you can see statistically black people commit more crime and that's why more are in jail, how do you refute that? >> crime res for african-americans extend way back. we had a rise in crime in the '70s and '80s and '90s, that's threw, but by the early '90s the crime rate stopped dropping and incarceration kept going up. >> trevor: across the world, not just in america.

>> right. >> trevor: canada. right. >> trevor: and america was the only country that responded to it in terms of mass incarceration. >> the crime rise and fall that happened a lot after the 20t 20th century is not a uniquely american event but mass incarceration is uniquely american, our responses are uniquely american. >> trevor: let's talk about monahan. the way you set this up is intriguing. i didn't know why this guy was so important. if i'm correct in summation that what you said in this piece is momonahan's writing, his memo ws largely one of the pillars that they based mass incarceration on. >> well, i think monahan was quite sympathetic to the african-american family. he argued for a benevolent investment on behalf of african-american families. >> trevor: that wasn't public.

people were asking for the solutions and they never did. >> they chose a different solution. the reason i argue for that is within the career of daniel patrick monahan himself. one of the sad things about white supremacy is it's not died in the wool racists who often end up doing damage. if you read some of the memos and i have them in the piece from daniel patrick monahan, he engages in the same criminalization of black people. >> trevor: in the short time i've read up or been around american politics and history, the one thing i've always been taught is it's the conservative against the black man, it is the liberal who is for the black man and in this piece you challenge that in a big way. you go monahan was one of the biggest liberals and yet himself and others who were on the liberal side -- >> it was the most important piece of legislation in terms of the architecture of mass incarceration is the '94 crime bill passed by bill clinton,

supported by numerous democrats. i think two people in the senate abstained and voted down the # '4 crime -- '94 crime bill. >> trevor: bill clinton said he regretted the decision and it put so many black people in prison. >> everybody regrets it. it was much harder at that time to speak out. at that point in time when the votes were gathered and to say, listen, this is a bad idea, and the number of people empowered to do that were few and far between. >> trevor: i'm having a good time. the "the atlantic" featuring the cover story is on the news stands now, between the world and me is in book ♪ introducing our 2015 nfl line up. get your favorite team's bud light can for game day. ♪

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>> larry: tonightly, dr. ben carson says mass shooting deaths are not as devastating at gun control, but you know what would be devastating? president ben carson. i am just saying. carson also laughed while commenting on last week's tragic shooting in oregon. hey, physician, why don't you go (bleep) thyself. just a suggestion. just a suggestion. and california has legalized assisted suicide, hey, why didn't they have this last year at the lakers season when i needed it? this is the nightly show. let's do this.