i loved the movie more than i expected. everyone says the books are even better. >> to see more summer reading lists and other program information visit our web site. >> after words with tierney cahill and a delegate eleanor holmes norton continues. ..

schools and teachers and the way they find themselves. this book if you want to know everything there is to know about schools and what is right or wrong with the education you need another book. if you need fun about education about how one teacher went about teaching children with the need to know in the sixth grade,, plus what they learned by matching her campaign then you will "m.s cahill for congress." at the same time that ms. cahill does not spare schools when she does not think they should be scared but she is a teacher and she knows what it's like to

work in those venues, and i shall offer what am i supposed to say, at mission so you know where i'm coming from. my mother was a schoolteacher and she taught in the d.c. public schools and the d.c. charter schools in particular. public education has been part and parcel of my own life beginning with my own parents. that wouldn't be enough to make me defend schools and i don't think being a teacher was enough to make to offer the defense that you do in a paragraph in this book where you call late a mirror of society that can't turn away kids and go on further. so one can describe your own sense of what it's like to have to work in a transient district like many of nv's or perino

schools today. whenever they throw at you. what's it like for somebody in that profession today thrown into the situation? >> guest: well i have taught in a number of different educational settings. my very first job was incompetent california in the inner city and my husband and i initially went there and wanted to work and get back to our country but we had hours on and we were not able to go, so compton certainly was an introduction to me to it was my first teaching job, i taught kindergarten and first grade and it was a huge learning curve. you know, i've taught in private schools, catholic schools, christian schools and spent a majority of my career in public schools. >> host: you went to catholic school yourself, didn't you? >> guest: catholic school as well as public schools. after the divorce my mother could no longer afford to send us in catholic schools so we went to public school which was

a great place to be. and i do have some frustration, you know, when i hear people talk about vouchers or how productive the private schools are. why can they be at public schools and do what they are doing and i suppose if we pick our clients, you know, maybe we could have the same results because it's a little disingenuous to say 99% of our kids going to college when you have an entrance exam and choose who you allowed in and don't serve as special needs children and your requirement sort of filter out folks you don't want there some that isn't a fair comparison, it is owls and oranges. i love the public schools because they do take everybody and it can be a child we call them children in transition and the school district which are homeless can be a child of course who is mabey struggling with addictions and their family is very unstable and it can be a

very high and child who has a very supportive of family and a strong education background and that family and pushing that job but we educate the spectrum and we accept them when they come through the doors whether they are in wheelchairs, walkers, sneakers, no backpacks, and we get them wherever they are and are moving them forward and it's hard work. and i do feel like the public schools are a mirror to society and often you can tell what the village is like by the school and if you walk in the school you are going to see the same hills outside the school because the children bring those issues into the school and we need to find ways to help them and deal with it and educate them. >> ibm agreed to devotees of the catholic schools but i have very much been against public money

to private schools. we have a voucher thrust upon us in the will of the people here. republicans were in power and refused to bring a bill for vouchers to the floor because they didn't do anything they wanted in the district. they have done so in the results show the children who were already in private school are doing fine but the experiment was the children in the very same place and the poorest performing public schools to compare them, now they are comparing children who already were doing well with children who are in the public schools, whereas i am in the position having gone to public school, but there has to be an alternative for the child of the public school can't do its job and we have had an extraordinary no longer experimental to go to

public charter schools, publicly supported that means of with your head for not doing what you're supposed to do in a private school we especially respect freedom of religion and so there's a need less kind of controversy when the people have voted with their feet for an extraordinary public alternative. i don't think it's happened anywhere else in the country but i was interested in your view because you have the kind of balance that we need to bring to education. a child and a different school there ought to be a publicly supported school that is accountable to the public if the public funds are going to go to those schools. i was very intrigued by your role as an educator that teachers don't know everything and continue to have the respect

while making them understand that and you sell your role according to your book more as a facilitator than a classic teacher and you told the story about how the nevada or the reno school system didn't have enough social studies books in fact didn't have any so you used newspapers and then there are these weird words i guess they come from washington, names of agencies that don't really describe what the agency does, and you say you ask a question, rather embarrassing question and you say let's look it up and to use a phrase passionately curious from einstein. i wish you would describe how you kept their respect. >> guest: i think one of the most important roles the you play as a teacher is to show that you are a learner and what a good learner means and you sure don't know everything. there is no way everybody can no

and everything and often particularly young teachers maybe feel threatened if there's a question asked and they don't know the answer so maybe they well, not right now, they put that child off. well, you have lost an opportunity to show what it means to be an educated person and be a learner because you don't need to know everything. how do you find out, how we educate ourselves, to ask questions. we want children to do that. we want them to probe and be carries. we don't want to shut them down because it is not in this chapter and we are now learning and yet. let's explore and that is what education should become an exploration in learning. >> host: well, the ms. cahill, once you get these learners on the campaign where do you stand on issues, so they asked you --

the had passionately curious questions for you come and you talk about questions like what are durham views on abortion. now, these are the -- you are raising this class to be insistent lerner's so they ask okay, ms. cahill, we want to know where you stand on abortion. everyone talks about it. how do you handle a question like that after telling everybody we are supposed to ask questions here and answer them. >> guest: first of all, you need to know i made a commitment to the parents and i wasn't quite to brainwash their children into becoming some liberal, that wasn't my goal. michael doesn't focus on issues but the process, and so when that child did kind of corner me and asked me that, and i knew his family background and his parents were struggling, they were looking at a divorce, they were a very religious family, so i would say christian conservative, and kids tend to like their teachers, you know,

they tend to look at them as a world model, another grown-up they have an attachment to. >> host: which is why is so important that we both have freedom, academic freedom and that teachers take that seriously by, quote, not brainwashing children's. >> guest: that is not ever jobs, yeah, absolutely. so when that young man asked he was very cute because he said i will not tell anybody, i just really want to know what do you think, ms. cahill, about abortion, and my heart kind of aid for him because i knew that he was trying to see if we lined up with his religious views and he liked me and he didn't want to not like me -- >> host: but he didn't want the wrong answer. >> guest: that's right, he wanted his answer. what i said is sweetheart, what i care about is what you think. what's important here is what you believe, so what do you think about that issue? he said well i think it's wrong.

i think that's a life and that could have been me. and most children will see these issues with themselves. i understand that. so i and pathetically said i totally understand what you're saying. i absolutely do, but i don't think what i believe on this issue is important. i think when you believe is important and i hope you talk to your mom and dad about it because it is important as family discussions. >> host: that is the kind of cross-examination you what a teacher to do rather than, quote, answer the question. you didn't have to answer it, he answered it and his answer was legitimate. >> guest: absolutely. >> host: most of us would have been wondering how to get around that one especially with your philosophy. so to give the audience, ms. cahill, a sense of your gift of a teacher i was very moved as a washingtonian, third generation

washingtonian surrounded by these wonderful monuments. by the link you made between washington, its architecture, its monuments and dom shocker seat, would you say something about that, please? >> guest: short. sixth grade social studies is essentially six so you start looking at the great civilizations of mesopotamia and egypt and then you go right into greece and rome and that's where this challenge actually presented itself is when we were looking at greece and talking about democracy and the great general pericles. that is when one of my students dared me to prove the average american could run for office, so that's how this devolved is when we were increase. but part of a greek history that's so important not only democracy but also looking at the architecture and the way communities function and they were very progressive so to look

at our founding fathers just to look back at history and pull the classic architecture, this classical ideas into our own government is key and kids need to know that. >> host: let me just recommend to their readers a wonderful book called "the greek way," to understand how our system of life and eckert democracy and our people come ourselves as western people. it is a wonderful book. and here, just linking the architecture and these things related to the greeks -- and they are not just some pretty monuments -- children are getting a very sophisticated education from is ms. cahill it sounds to me because i am not sure the average american has made the link even though 20 million people come to washington every single year. ms. cahill, there was a

remarkable passage in your book about a man who was pro and ra and abortion and how you had affected his daughter to. i'm going to have you read this and, just read this passage please. in your own place. >> guest: yes, ma'am. i cannot believe my child is watching cnn, brent thompson told me though he was a right-wing conservative who is hugely pro nra and anti-abortion he loved our campaign because of its impact on his daughter. laura and natural leader in the classroom who's smart and confidence put her center stage now set at the dinner table and grilled her family with questions about the government. considering the delights and second amendment could an individual have an f-14 with a rocket launching missile, she asked her family quite seriously

one night. what? what are you talking about, her father sputtered. well, that's bearing arms, where do you draw the line? his father was pleased her daughter would come home and push the envelope making him defend his way of thinking. she listened spaulding of anything i said. she was simply playing the devil's advocate which we did in class all the time. >> host: playing devil's advocate. wall school you say is the socratic method is about the devil's advocate. let me give you a hypothetical and what do you do with that and this kid is running for law school and our audience think the book is all about high points and joy and wonder. remember how i started out, a single mother, no money, decides to run for congress.

there were low points to three part-time jobs. one of the lowest for me is almost $10,000 cash and i would say cheated out of, the suicide line, tell us about those three low points. >> guest: well, the commission i worked with i sold real-estate on the weekend for time to support my teaching had it and i had worked with a family for a number of months and they ended up going to another agent, they had a open house and bought that open house from the agent sitting there instead of me after spending months and months driving around and showing them homes and that kind of thing, so that was rather disappointing particularly because they were high school friends i'd grown up with and i was shocked they

would be so careless to not think about the ramifications and how that would impact our family, so that was a disappointment for sure. unfortunately, i had a hernia and did have to have surgery and had an entrapped nerve and had to go back for a second surgery. >> host: altering of the campaign. >> guest: yes, it was a little stressful. and then the third thing, the suicide line, i get a little embarrassed when that's brought up because i did grow up irish catholic and certainly that's not something i would want to talk about much, but it wasn't i was wanting to commit suicide, i was just in such a low place and struggling financially and there were a number of times our power would be cut off and we just didn't have enough money to buy more milk or more bread and is making do with what you had, those kind of lessons like my

grandparents had to suffer during the depression so it was and i felt so sorry for myself but i didn't know who i could end on. i couldn't byrd and my mother with that. she would worry too much and i really didn't feel like there was anything i could talk to about just these kind of overwhelming issue is haunting me. so i called a suicide hotline because i thought i could be anonymous and just vent and cry and be angry at all those things and then be done with it and when the gal on the line realized you mean you're not going to hurt yourself and i thought ghosh no i would never do that. >> host: ayaan in the middle of a campaign people. [laughter] >> guest: and i felt like couldn't say who i was because i would be on the news or the papers and i just wanted to be anonymous and and and she was a little weight with me like why are you not wasting my time if you're not going to kill yourself but why are you calling? i said i just needed someone to talk to, so she was a little

annoyed with me. she did do a good thing. i just needed to be anonymous and get it off my chest. >> host: after being very public in the campaign. here's a low point. perhaps for you. i want everybody to listen to this low point because it is a low point for the country. let me read from ms. cahill. the holiday season was always reminded me how little we had and how unfair i felt that was to my children. she's talking about her own three children now. they were all some of little kids and i felt so guilty no matter how hard i worked there was never enough. you're talking about a mother that was a schoolteacher and worked three jobs, people, in order to support her family. people don't think of teachers as underpaid, but my own children qualified for free and reduced lunches, which meant that we fell below the poverty

line. how sad is that? says he economically, our family ranked in the bottom 25th percentile even though i was college-educated and an award winning teacher. you think if that doesn't get you, let's try this. ms. cahill helped an elderly black grandmother deliver groceries at thanksgiving or christmas, one of those holidays. >> guest: she's a saint. >> host: after doing her duty they delivered the groceries we read this later on in a book that's never self pity but is on sparing telling the truth. i left feeling grateful for what i had but tremendously discouraged about the plight of this work-family as i finished the night and bid her good-bye

she made me put a basket of food in my car to take home unbeknownst to me tenney, the principle, have listed mine as being a family in need. i cried the whole way home and let me tell you, ms. cahill, i cried right there. tell us about your pay, how it is possible a gifted teacher in a state eckert least until recently been people don't go any more had money, had to work three jobs just to put food on the table. >> guest: well, not to do a pity party because i have dignity and feel like i am a hard worker and i don't ask for public assistance for those kind of things, but being a single mom and not receiving child support was difficult and being able to afford a home in a town

booming in real-estate -- i should clarify because my ex-husband is a good friend because i don't want anybody to claim him as it did it because he's a good man and a good father but we felt we were good parents in the way we chose to work out the divorce was all i had the children for a week and he had the children for a week and because we shared custody there was no child support or anything so you carry your own expenses when you had the children but that meant eustis had to provide a home for those children all month long even if they were there every after week. so, it was very difficult to afford much of anything. >> host: are the pay of teachers left you in the poverty category? >> guest: it did. it did. >> host: i know that you're own union worked hard on that but i was interested to hear about the initial disappointment you had with two organizations with which you had been deeply

affiliated, the democratic party and national education association. weld was the disappointment and how did it resolves of? >> guest: initially i wasn't sure if i was going to get their backing and part of it was probably because my own naivete on the social security issue at least in our state. we don't receive social security. there is a huge issue and i hope it's resolved in your time in the house. >> host: who doesn't receive social security? >> guest: teachers don't, they don't receive social security even though ip into it through having wagers and all those kind of things i will receive it. and so i think i answered that question and when i did my interview, but they did come around and support me in the campaign which we were very happy with. they did give money to the campaign, they gave a thousand dollars. but, you know, i do think as much as i love my teachers union

and what the attempt to do for educators i do think we need to think out of the box and sometimes if you challenge those clivias people get their feathers ruffled, and so that can put you in hot water with those folks but i happy to be in the hot water. >> host: how about the democrats? >> guest: the democrats unfortunately our relationship didn't start off very smoothly. all i had called because the kids said you should probably call and let them know what we are doing and give them a heads up and our contact information and all that, and when i did that i think they were in shock. what do you mean you're doing this as a class project? is this a joke? you were kidding, right? no, i'm not kidding. here is my contact information and they just were not ury supporters. and, you know, when the national public radio did their piece on

this and asked the question half the democrats helped you in any way i answered honestly know, they have not. and i don't think they appreciated that getting out of the press also it was honest and, you know, it was a rocky relationship. sometimes i wasn't sure who was my enemy if it was jim gibbs but they just were not very helpful. >> host: but that was all? >> guest: they made apologies of the indian say if i ran again they would respect me. they thought was a hard-working candidate and were surprised how well we did. >> host: why don't you tell what everybody has been waiting for. how well did you do? >> guest: we ended up with 106,000 votes statewide which was about 34% of the vote. >> host: you didn't get the $10,000 for the commission. how much did you raise? >> guest: $7.

>> host: $7,000, 106,000 votes. top with that. this book should be read also because of the lyrical language. you'd render your city and make us understand the battle and make us understand reno and i just want to read one passage before we get to your relationship with mr. gibbons. throughout the city this will help you understand reno and nevada. through the city neighborhoods replete with published mansions and grounds that look like established parks and man-made water features large enough to dave a small family of elephants but up against new housing tracts that look decidedly low or middle class. no transition, no buffer zones, no dates, just pronounced difference from one side or one end of the street to the other. this is the district tierney was

torian to represent. libertarian, hard to describe. yes they were republicans but they were certainly taken by this teacher. ms. cahill perhaps every story should have a happy ending. in this case you struck a relationship with your opponent's wife and in the and the happy ending is the opponent comes to school to celebrate with you. tell about back. >> guest: i had actually been mailed my opponent's wife, she is the state legislature in nevada, assemblywoman and i was looking for help. one of my students had won an essay contest on what it means to be an american and she helped with a number of issues and we ended up being great friends and she is still a friend of mine today and mr. gibbons through his credit came to our school and helped celebrate at the end about the political process and how great it was to be in

america and i view can run a positive campaign and any american can run for office. >> host: you're top of the lesson ms. cahill was trying to teach her children in a way that taught everything about good sportsmanship. she understood how to lose and you understood how to win and anybody who wants a good read will learn and understand why reading the "ms. cahill for congress." thanks for coming to washington and i certainly hope the president has time to read your book and i recommended to the secretary of education. he knows which side he's on and he's we outside the box. >> guest: i look forward to hearing from them. thank you for having me.