just give up. they fade away and they die. >> you were fortunate, you had a ,,,,ecause of here@@@ rbrbi them. only because of my congressman, only because of him did i get help for the cancer. if it wasn't for that it never

would have happened. ms. raditz, parallel to ms. baiten and in your brother's case, the illinois attorney general's office and dr. walden, we have this in the binder. attorney general's office wrote and i quote, i find the behavior on the part of this health to be extremely troubling if not unethical. clearly there's no justification for rescindsing the gentleman's insurance beyond have avoiding cost of future treatment. to rescind and terminate his policy is not only devastating but probably fatal. and then in the second letter, the company finally reversed its decision. how did your brother know to enlist the assistance of the attorney general, was that through you? >> absolutely through myself. even i had difficulty in finding that outlet. it took me a while to get the attorney general's office.

but we're fortunate in the state of illinois to have a health bureau in our attorney general's office. we're lucky to have an aggressive unit and they're available for the citizens of the state of illinois who go through the same situation my brother did. but again, most people don't have the knowledge that i have and, by the way, it took two appeals. the first time she wrote the letter they said, "no." it took a further letter to them before they did reverse their decision. >> thank you. mr. barton, questions? >> may i ask a question? >> just a technical question as a doctor i get nervous with so many lawyers around me. there's an active -- >> you should feel zmur less than secure. it's opposite of secure.

as i understand, there's an active class action suit one of the witnesses before us oh snee in california it's being going on for some time. >> the speech and debate notwithstanding, are we subjecting ourselves to possible subpoena in that to testify in that court by our questions here today or our opening statements here today? >> no. but if you wish to were we could arrange that. >> no. i don't want a trip to california. >> no. i think we're okay. we're not asking about that, this is a committee investigation and we would be exempt. >> can council answer that question for us? >> would you care to comment? >> we are official setting. this is an official of the u.s. congress. speech and debate protection certainly helps us, i don't think any of us will ask about

the class action suit. the speech and debate clause. >> i thank the chairman. >> again, i thank the three witnesses. i want to make a comment on what ms. baiten said about myself. there are 435 congressman and every one of us, our job is to help constituents. i have four full-time caseworkers. mr. wright to my left here. -- was my district director at the time. i had christie and jody and ron and linda all intervened for you. i came in at the very end and talked to the president. but not just myself but every member of congress, we've helped hundreds, sometimes thousands of people every year. your case just happened to be life and death and we put a lot

of extra effort into it because we knew how important it was to get you health care as quickly as possible. but it's not just me. it's every member of congress that tries to serve our constituents. my first question will be to the subseque gentle lady to the far right. you said they asked several questions several different ways and they were very tricky. is it your understanding that that's a standard practice in the individual insurance markets? do they start out with the intention of setting you up so that later on they may disqualify you? is that your opinion? >> yes. that's my opinion. i believe they ask you the same question several times so that if you disclose it in one area or and then don't realize you need to disclose it again that they can somehow say that you have committed fraud.

>> are you aware since yourer lawsuit if they have made any changes to that? >> i believe that that was one of the things they were trying to negotiate with blue cross was changing the application but i don't know what the status of it is. >> my next question is the lady there in the middle. your brother, has he had his stem cell transplant. >> he did, indeed, receive the stem cell transplant. it was extremely successful and it extended his lifefully three and a half years. he passed away january 6th of 2009 and he was about to have a second stem cell transplant. unfortunately due to certain situations, his donor became ill at the late last minute so he did pass away on january 6th. but, again, it extended his life nearly three and a half years. and at his age, each day meant

everything to him. and each day that we had him was wonderful. and my daughter, who is behind me, and i and his wife and his other brother, richard, we spent the last 30 days, every single day with him at his side. and like i say, there couldn't be any better memorial to my brother that what this committee is doing because life is so precious. and in spending those last moments of his life with him for 30 days, at the end we realized how important this work you're doing is. and we just want to say, again, from our family, thank you all so much. we know with mr. gordon here that you've been working around the clock, seven days a week. and very, very hard. and mr. gordon, thank you and your staff for all your hard work. >> thank you. >> ms. baiten, is what -- what have your doctors told you your

condition would have been had you had the mastectomy immediately as originally scheduled. would you have had to undergo the chemotherapy and is it probable that the cancer would have spread to the lymph nodes as it apparently has? >> they said that every day i put off the surgery was a really a day that the cells just multiplied and grew. and i think there was a strong chance that in the beginning that maybe i didn't have to have -- i could have had a lesser surgery hand not have had the lymph nodes taken out. i would have had to have chemo but maybe not for as long a period of time. >> if you -- if it's personal, it is personal, you don't have to tell us. would you tell us as much as you can about your prognosis right now?

is the expectation positive for your chemotherapy and cancer remission? or is it still up in the air? >> it's still up in the air. >> still up in the air. mr. chairman, my time is about expired. i'll yield back. i think i speak for every member of this committee on both sides of the aisle. we want to hear from the insurance companies in the next panel. but it is clear that if, in fact, there's a practice of going in after the fact and cancelling policies on technicalities, we have to do whatever is possible to prevent that. i think a company does have the right to make sure there's no fraudulent information. but it's obvious to me -- i'll guarantee you in ms. baiten's case there was no fraud intended and i'm convinced in the other

two witnesses that they were being truthful and honest also. and if a citizen acts in good faith, we should expect the insurance companies to take their money. to act in good faith also. and i will tell you, ms. baiten, we will monitor your case and we will stay in touch with blue cross and blue shield of texas and so long as you do what you're supposed to do, i'll guarantee damn tee you that they'll do what they're supposed to do. with that, mr. chairman, i'll yield back. >> thank you. questions? i wanted to talk about rescissions for unrelated medical conditions. i understand that they scour the

records to find anything but let me understand what happened to you. after your insurance policy began, you developed breast cancer. and the insurance company decided to investigate your application but it didn't find any evidence that you had breast anything before you got your policy, did it? >> no. >> so it was rescinded because, essentially, of pimples. >> they rescinded it because -- the red flag was what that means is something suspicious so they red flag you and they go back and cut your chart apart and what they found on my weight, i think i put down what woman tells you what she really weighs. i weighed more than what i put down and they said they might not have given me a policy because i was overweight and the second thing was, i had a -- in

my earlier years i had a fast beating of my heart. and i didn't have a problem with that anymore. but anyway, that was brought up. everything they could possibly dig up in my whole life history got brought up, unrelated to the cancer. nothing related to cancer. >> so if we lie about our weight at all we better look out, huh? >> they'll get you. >> i better change my driver's license. ms. raditz, it sounds like your brother had a similar experience. he signed up and was stricken with an aggressive tomorrow of lymphoma and then the insurance company which is now mart of ashurnt, investigated the application and didn't find evidence that your brother had cancer before the insurance policy, right? >> that's correct. >> he did not have cancer prior

to -- at the time he signed up he did not have cancer. >> so it rescinded the policy based on alleged misstatement about gallstones and you said -- the aneurysm, a weak blood vessel, does that have anything to do with anything? >> knoting what so ever. -- nothing whatsoever. he never knew he had gallstones. he actually wrote down he had kidney stones and was treated for kidney stones so when he got the letter he thought it was an error. they must have meant the kidney stones. he disclosed he had kidney stones and they knew that when he gave them insurance. he never knew he had gall stones and never to his death was ever treated for gallstones or ever treated for any aneurysm. >> so in addition to having an unrelated medical condition it

was something he didn't know about at all. so when we hear, as perhaps we will about fraud from the insurance companies, he mentioned kidney stones, that he didn't have -- are you say something. >> he did and he did disclose those and was treated for those. and he was given insurance despietd the fact he had kidney stones. had they not been able to find his doctor who was retired and on a fishing trip in another state, they still might not have believed him because he had no knowledge of it. luckily, they were able to find the doctor who was able to say. oh, yes, i never discus those issues with him. i never treated him for those. they were very minor and they appeared on a ct scan but we never engaged in any treatment for those whatsoever and i never disclosed those. >> ultimately, even

that -- didn't it take the attorney general to get it changed? >> oh, yes, it did. ,,,,bsolutely @@xá further. >> ms. horton, you're situation was that you were -- your policy

was rescinded because you were seeking some insurance coverage or -- how did that work for you? >> i -- >> is it is the mic on? >> it's green. >> can you not hear me. >> okay. i was seeking the policy when i was going over from a group health insurance. >> so this is just a denial from the beginning -- >> i was accepted and the first time i went to see a doctor i soefed a letter from blue cross stating they wanted all my medical records. and it was a bill for just routine blood work. to test my t-4 level which is your thyroid hormone. and so it was routine blood work that anyone who has an underactive thyroid, which irdisclosed, would get. i paid almost three times more in premiums then they needed to pay out and they still sent me

to this post claims underwriting department where they went that you my medical records. they found mention of something in her notes that she never disclosed to me and both of my doctors wrote letters in support of the fact that they had not discussed it with me. they suspected i had but could not prove. and -- >> so we know that it seems obvious that anything might relate to cancer treatment they're going to scour the records. in your case, it might have been something about the bloodwork that you were having? >> in my case it proves there's no condition too small. they are willing to send you to this department for. i didn't have anything even close to life-threatening nor aspas as expensive. it shows you can't be too young or too healthy for them to send

you to this department. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> in burgess for questions, please. >> thank you. ms. baiten, let me ask you. blue cross and blue shield came back to you after finding out you needed the surgery and said they were taking your insurance and the date of rescission was dated back to the date of enactment of the insurance, is that correct? >> i'm kind of hard of hearing. >> your rescission was effective on 12-07 which was the date the insurance was initiated? >> right. they gave me back my premiums. >> they refunded the -- >> i never cashed the check because mr. barton told me to the to cash it. they rescinded it back to the -- they wanted nothing to do with me and gave me back every penny that i had ever given them and considered never been insured by them.

>> i see. and what about in your brother's situation. was there ever a refund of premium back to the date of the rescission? >> yes. they didn't actually get to that point because it got resolved before they refunded the money but they sent a letter saying you are se as i understanded to the date of original contract which was before my brother had any cancer treatments at all and $200,000 back. so my brother would have had to pay out of pocket over $200,000 in medical expenses. >> but they never got to the point where they sought the refund from your brother? >> again, the $200,000 was the mount that his medical bills oh snee those were subsequent bills? >> right. that would have been what he had to pay out because they were rescinding their contract. and so they were stating that we're rescinding all the way back to the original date of the

contract so you've never had any insurance at all for the entire time you've had cancer. you now have no insurance. >> so that was actually -- that was retroactive pronouncement also dealt with the money they had used to pay for his cancer treatment to date? is that correct? that's correct. >> he was told he had to have a certain sum of money he he couldn't get the bone marrow transplant. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> that wasn't the insurance company that was the neal silt into that was the hospital coordinator. when i called to literally beg her to schedule the stem cell transplant because he was on pins and needles being ill and going through the aggressive chemotherapy and readying himself for the transplant which is a long procedure, medically,

they wouldn't schedule him because the insurance company said he's no longer insured. so we will not schedule you for your stem cell transplant that you were supposed to have within the next three weeks. we won't schedule you. so i got on the phone and literally begged her and, no. >> let me ask you a question. this doesn't have to do with this hearing today but it figures into the larger picture. was any other plan delineated for you, like another option you might have would be medical school at northwestern or -- were there any other options? >> no, there really were not. my brother's doctor was one of the most renowned doctors in the whole world on the specific routine of treatment and he had a very specific type of cancer that really had to be treated by that doctor in that hospital at that time. and you can't just say, well,

okay, you can have it a couple months down the road or you can wait. the attorney general's office realized, thankfully, because it's headed by a medical doctor, that time was of the essence. >> as well as i can recall multiple times when i was in practice, come up on these situations and you find a way to make it work for the patient. i'm frustrated in your situation because eyou were essentially allowed or offered no other option. i appreciate the fact, particularly for that type of nonhodgkin's lymphoma it may require a specialized type of care. my frustration as a physician, i cannot tell you the time that is i found another hospital or another way to make it happen and not wait the lengths of time that you all are discussing.

mrs. ms. baiten, in tarrant county there's a county hospital. did anyone ever try to help you through that tangle to try to get any care through john peter smith? >> i couldn't qualify for that. but what i did do was moved in with my sister so i could declare residency and i went to the dallas county hospital and tried to get tlep. you get on a waiting list for a mastectomy and three or four times i went there and they lost my medical records and said, why are you here. i'm here, i have cancer. i need a mastectomy. and they said we'll put you on the waiting list. i believe my name still wouldn't be on the waiting list. they never even contacted me back. i'm thankful to say in trying to get help windy going to county

hospitals and applying to county hospitals, mr. barton got my insurance reinstated and i got the original doctor. >> and i appreciate that. i believe in continuity of care and believe that that's important. again, the other aspect does not really be a part of the discussion today but it's part of the broader discussion as we talk about strategies for the future. i want to thank every one of you for being here today. ms. horton, i didn't get to you. it's not that i was afraid but i didn't have an opportunity. thank you for your testimony. it was all very important today. thank you, mr. chairman. i'll yield back. >> mr. chairman, thank you. i'll direct my questions to ms. baiten. am pr am i pronouncing it right? >> it doesn't matter. >> ms. baiten, we heard and listened very intensely to your

testimony and quite compelling and i wanted to take one quote from your written testimony and i think you said when you get on a waiting list cancer grows. and i think that was in reference to the fact that as you just testified to doctor burgess that you were on that waiting list at the county hospital. there was an alternative but, thank god that your congressman and my colleague, joe barton was able to intervene and you got the care at the private hospital and by your physician that you trusted and wanted to do the surgery. this statement you made is absolutely right. i don't know if you know it but i'm a physician, too. an obgyn doctor. your statement is a profound one, indeed. when you get an a waiting list, cancer grows.

and when we look at statistics of countries where you routinely get put on a waiting list like the uk and others, and in particular, in the treatment of breast cancer, in our country, where you don't get put on a waiting list when you have breast cancer, you get operated on quickly the five-year overall survival right for breast cancer is 98%. but in the uk system, where you frequently get put on a waiting list, a five-year survival rate for breast cancer is 78%. that's a significant change. as you described to us, that -- that 2 sent meter mass grew to 7 centimeters and low and be hold you had to have your lymph nodes removed and i guess some of those were positive by the time you got operated on. is that the case? >> yes.

>> well, let me oh we that information, let me just ask you this question. and it relates to you in particular. but it relates to everybody in general. and i'd appreciate your thoughts on ways that you think that we can strengthen the private market so that other people, anyone with chronic illness can find affordable health insurance or do you think we should turn over our health care system, lock stock and barrel to the compassion and efficiency of our federal bureaucracy? me? >> me? >> all i can say is that i did go many, many different places trying to get help and i spent hours and quit working and did all my focusing on -- instead of focusing on getting well and my cancer, i focused on trying to get treatment and i went to

every hospital in dallas. county hospitals. i went to ft. worth. i went everywhere. and i don't know how to fix it. all i know is there's something terribly wrong with the health care system. when you go to a big hospital and there's to so many people from waiting for help -- i went to all the clinics and sat with all the people that i just can't even imagine how many people are there waiting for help. you spend hours and hours, probably spend the whole day trying to see a doctor. i did that for weeks. and never got help. so the bad thing about that is when you go to different hospitals they give you 2ki6 opinions. every time i went to a different hospital my tumor was a different size. every time i went to a different hospital, one person wanted to do one thing and you get a difference in diagnosis and a difference in treatment plans. who do you listen to? who do you know how who to listen to. all i know is when you go

through this, like every one of us have been through what we've been through, you realize that something is broken. >> i'm going the reclaim my time because i just got a few seconds he want. i think you're absolutely right. there's something that needs to be fixed. something is broken and when we hear from this second panel from the insurance companies, i'm going the make some suggestions to them how we can fix this system, but it is my firm belief, ms. baiten, the other two witnesses as well, we can fix the system without, as i say, turning it over lock stock and barrel to a federal bureaucracy that routinely is going to ration and put people on the waiting list. we'll get into that later and i want to thank all three of you for being here today and giving such compelling testimony. >> please