and we launch ourselves into print over it actually. you don't -- i refuse to be taken as an apologist for the israeli government by picking out moments are which unsavory in an antisemitic implications. i think it's worse in britain than in germany, for example. it's peculiar thing which i'm worried about and i see it growing actually. yeah. >> anymore questions? >> to your left. >> it seems to me a little ironic you should be advocating the abolition of social studies in favor -- >> only the name. not the subject. >> our high school controversies

on the one hand you have the new approach, which is social studies or cultural world history. >> yeah. >> and on the other hand just history, and i thought i was on your side. >> you were on my side in advocating just history. now you are described oxford and cam bridge you say you -- cambridge, you say you would be advocating in your own versatility. >> i probably get that from high school teaching and university teaching. what want, i think we are recallly culturally unevolved -- a strong term to use -- unless our kids know the story. i mean, i'm with you. unless our kids in high school and middle school -- all the time and effort spent in middle school about learning about learning, you know, sort of zits 101, really. what i think our children must know is the basic outline of the

american and world historical stories which means chronology. it means chronology, narrative. it means information. it means not assuming that every single library can be got from wikipedia. so, i think that is sort of absolutely critical apresent tissueship beyond which one can fool around with cross-discipline anywhere interests in university. so i hope we're on the same side. >> since you go to cicero, et cetera, is there anything peculiar about your approach to history and art that makes you such a fantastic sparkling with all sorts of things? >> i paid her to say that.

[laughter] >> awe, shucks. i tell you, what's your name? [laughter] >> what's your telephone number? [laughter] >> i'm joking. i'm joking. yeah. i always -- you know, it i was laughed out. i wrote out reviews when my friend john gray started to introduce nonbook reviews and he knew i was doing this weird analysis. when i wanted to write a book about daily life in holland, about the culture being the richest and mightiest place in the world for brief generations. this is a kind of culture that is absolutely engorged on images, on tiles, engraved

glasses, wall paper, stamped leather. you cannot do it without understanding the purchase and power of images of all kind, not just high art images. and then as the years went by and i mentioned that of course i very happily and greatly taught at hear varmint i came to think that on the one hand art history can't be taught without understanding the rest of the world that produced it. i'm not somebody that believes you simply dissolve picasso or manet so they become a kind of stock exchange but it is important to understand the kind of soil bet from which produced these -- soil bed which produceed the work and the language. equally, it is impossible to do history, especially history of the 20th and 21st century but i don't know any history

since the printed image or any history since bibles began to be illuminated without sees images as important as text. images are text, text are images. that's how we are. we're language animals but visual animals, too. the two things marry each other and what they give birth is to our culture. [applause] >> thank you very much for coming. [inaudible conversations]

>> simon schama is an art history professor at columbia university. he was the author of rough crossings. for more information visit columbia.edu/cu/art history. >> morning drive is the fourth book by nationally syndicated radio host michael smerconish. the author attends a reception at the home of marina and daniel ein. he is recorded as he talks to chris matthews, ted stevens of alaska, patrick murphy of pennsylvania, kitty kelley, 9/11 commission member richard ben be-veniste. it's 45 minutes. >> come in here marks lina. come in.

>> give me your best laugh. thank you. >> yes, please. >> we have one here. that's a whistler from when he was living in london over there. >> i love this. >> this is roberter longard. a new york artist. >> tell me about the reagan photograph. >> this -- i was convinced this was reagan. >> it was from that period. >> i meant this picture. i didn't mean this. tell me about this. >> this one?

it was in a white house event. as you can see we're very close. >> you are. got all the paces covered. >> i never knew your politics. this is my first indication. >> i love this photograph, by the way. just a classic reagan photograph. gorgeous. okay. >> daniel patrick white. a woman in new york who ran a communist art center. >> i have seen this before and i love it. >> there are very few of these. >> i love that. >> destroyed the original. >> somehow his seems out of synch with reagan. i can see schwarzenegger. i love this.

cindy crawford. >> and it's all indian poetry. each one of those is different. >> he died this year. a different one he did. and met him at a gallery about two years ago. we love it. how do you display it? and he said, hang it in the -- don't worry bit it. >> i love everything you have. >> oops. >> i'm following you. >> we have 5,000 square feet,

and almost 6,000,. >> this is perfect. >> four levels. >> so we arrived 20 minutes early and we quickly drove into georgetown so we could circle pass where kaytlin is going to live for the summer. she just finished her junior year at vanderbilt and she is going to work for senator specter for the summer. >> my son is going to be here and he would love to talk to her. >> give her the lay of the land. >> she is young. >> she just finished her junior year. >> sophomore year, junior year? >> junior year, yeah, just turned 21. >> drinking age. >> yeah. she finally brought out the legitimate i.d. when he wad dinner recently. i had this experience because i had the washington semester and stayed at american for a couple months when i worked for george bush as vice president and i had a phenomenal experience.

>> we had -- >> one of the bert things i have ever done. i bet you would do it tomorrow. >> i think you should come out here. >> it's fabulous. terrific. >> much more spread out. >> great. >> this picture, by the way -- happy pat gets here. the first time he saw this. he sent us a big plant after he was here for dinner to put in front of it for obvious reasons. >> i have to look at it. i'm going to look. >> emily, how are you? michael smerconish. >> thanks for having me. >> the same thing there?

>> i'm doing two radio shows a day, both from philadelphia, and it makes it very hard to travel because i'm on the air from 6:00 until 9:00 in in morning, which i have a 3:30 wakeup call, and then i'm off for three hours, and i'm back on the air at noon, noon to 3:00. tomorrow i'm doing three shows. my own, two shows, and then i'm about to pick up an affiliate in boston, and the boston affiliate doesn't have for whatever reason a person doing afternoon drive tomorrow so they said to me, would you mind doing an extra two hours live only from boston as a mean of introducing yourself? i said i would do it. what the hell. at that point i will only be in for 35 hours of radio. two columns. three tv appearances and three

book signings, so why not two more hours. about four a night. but then i can -- then it will go back to the normal routine of just two shows a day. tomorrow will be insane. >> what's you view of -- >> i get a kick out of him. i don't buy into the consecutive craziness about him. they're going to great lengths to try to tar and feather the guy. i don't know anything about the relationships he has with the contractors that are written about him. i'm just not conversantes about those issues. i have read a lot of stories, from pennsylvania but he is good copy. he is good copy for somebody like me who is a talk show host primarily. >> too people care? >> well, they care if they're beyond his district but within

his district it seems to me that they care about his ability to continue to bring home all the funding. so, you know, some kind of a balancing scale about level of concern and appreciation of having the goods. if you. >> if you go outside the district do you think he's an embarrassment? >> i wouldn't go that far. don't know how closely they pay attention. i think the most know him as a burly marine who wanted us out of iraq and was constantly a thorn in the side of the bush administration. i don't knoll how -- i don't know how they have sort of permeated the populace. >> i'm doing a comedy routine for c-span. you should be warned about that. >> as soon as is here. >> look over there.

>> she is going to spend the summer in georgetown and work for center -- senator specter for her internship. her first brush with washington. >> is she prepared? >> you know, you would have to ask her. she is in the next roosevelt as long as she votes i don't care what she is. but i think she is probably excited about this semester. >> she was going to work there any? >> oh, yeah. it's been arranged for a long time. i just adds to the excitement level. >> you know him, right? >> very well, yeah, very well. in fact i -- it's funny because i wrote about him extensively in the book, never an tess paying he would -- -- never anticipating he would switch parties. but at home i'm being accused of plea send tating his --

precipitating his switch to hype my book sales. but i have known him a long time, three decades as a matter of fact. it's going to be a great year to in the pennsylvania next year. >> how do you think the democratic leadership -- >> i don't know he will have an opponent. successback is acting like he's running but i'm not sure he will. the republican side is yet to be determined. added to that ills-is the guy that broke the camels back to get specter out of the party but it would be shocked if he was the candidate. >> i don't know. i spoke to him the morning after he decided. i would have loved to have seen him run but my hunch is for the first time he has the opportunity to live comfortably

and didn't want to give that up. >> how are you? >> michael smerconish. nice to see you i have head you on the radio show but nice to see you face-to-face. if you're coming through town i would love to have you on the program. pardon me. >> actually you were at my college reunion. >> where did you go to school? i went to lehigh, and it's on this saturday night. >> mine is on the 6th. so, plenty of tribe up there so i'm not sure what the logisticses of it are. might be have to do it on the phone. >> either way, happy to do it. i'm doing two shows a day, so whichever suits you, each is carried in 15 markets so the first is from 6:00 to 9:00 and

the second is from noon to 3:00. >> so six hours a day? >> i do. tomorrow i'm doing eight. >> that's fun. >> yeah. >> i would say the expletive. that's a lot of time. >> i'm anxious to tell you about something i'm working on next because if i could get your help why love to. >> i understand that -- my man is going to be in here next. >> he is. >> maybe we can talk tonight. >> that would be great. if i could -- i don't mind asking you on my can mic if youy consider blurbing the book. >> actually, i was very excited i didn't realize you were focusing on him. >> i am.

>> you take it -- i talk in my book -- >> i know you do. i know that. >> and he made a great appearance as a witness, of course, and the story about the torture and inability to prosecute. >> i read it. >> oh. >> i absolutely read it. >> good. >> i have hosted him in fact on a particular day i hosted him in a luncheon, 500 people came out just to honor him. and he is a wonderful, wonderful guy. haven't spent a lot of time with him. >> terrific. so, it's from the point of view of looking at 9/11 through the point of view of -- >> correct. the working title for the project is instinct. its interesting because behind you are representatives of my

publisher. we have arm wrestled about what the final title should be. i like instinct. they like the fifth hijacker which i think puts too much emphasis on him and not enough emphasis on melendez perez. so somewhere it will come out in the wash. what i try to do is pick up 20th 20th -- flight 93. i try toy pick up the story, it was august 4 when he made that stop and then walk through of what is known about cat tan any, and i have had difficulties in finishing the book because of the lack of a prosecution of this guy. so, it's kind of hard to bring it to closure. >> one participant who we feel pretty clearly -- [inaudible conversations]

>> is now unavailable to prosecute, so nobody -- [inaudible] >> yeah. did you follow the pelosi press conference today? >> no. >> pretty interesting exchange. she flat out said she was lied to by the cia relative to the harsh interrogation measures. i wondered if she was sort of brought out on this issue because karl rove wrote an opinion piece in the "wall street journal" saying she ways in the loop. she was briefed in december of 2002 and she had the media availability. >> who said this, rove?

>> rove said this and reconstructed a timeline that seemed compelling. a good subject for when i'm not micked for c-span maybe. >> always persuaded by anything that karl rove says. >> my view of it for what it's worth, i don't think this is a debate that should have been held in public but the extent it's being held, bring everything out you can. there of memos that speak to the efficacy of waterboarding i would like to read them. >> i agree. i think that other issues -- [inaudible] >> i don't understand -- >> right. >> suck all the air out of the white house when i read it.

>> so many things in there that i think that should be investigated. >> very well. you would be interested to know there's a chapter in the book that says all the 9/11 commission recommendations should be implemented. >> okay. >> not just that. i was always for it. never understood why the administration was an impediment and never wanted you to do your job. how can you fix things unless you know exactly what went wrong? always my view. john lehman is a friend of sorts. he has been on my friends often and i enjoy him. >> great guy.

>> he invited me -- i had a crush on patrick. >> thank you. >> i think i have. marina has been great and it's a fun experience. i've done it before and i always ebb joy it. thank you. i hope you like it. nice to see you all. okay. >> i'll let you mingle. >> i'm going to go find chris. >> how are you, bud. >> is this a suburban area? >> i just got your e-mail. i thought you had to get back on the train. >> i'm rushing off now. >> i appreciate being here. thank you. i am wired for c-span, so you're all on notice. you're all on notice. >> patrick, i appreciate you being here. >> wouldn't have missed it.

>> everything going well. >> yeaho, you're out of the specter thing now. >> yes. >> you're out. >> he's a great congressman. >> we do what we do well. some day he will be president. let's see, 29? what do you think, 2016? >> did you -- you have to -- she is right behind the camera. say hello to kaytlin. she is working for arlen this summer. >> you are so in bed. >> you can use it as a caveat everytime you put me on. >> mr. secretary. >> chris. how are you. >> the members from the foreign service here. >> a lifetime appointment.

a lifetime honorific. >> you just finish? >> i'm going to another thing. >> you just finished the show? >> yeah. >> good. nice to see you. >> i can't believe it. he has been reporting that he and the vice president thought -- you never know what it is -- that the interrogate temperatures over in iraq to try to get information out of a guy because they thought they could demonstrate that iraq was tied to 9/11. that was their political purpose for torture? it comes out the purpose of torture was to get information, security information. >> i would be off the reservation on that issue.

>> trying to prove that iraq had wmd when it didn't. now we fine out maybe, if it's proven, we were using a pretty terrible message to prove a political point. >> what do you make of the press conference today? >> i didn't think it was successful. >> killed you see what rove wrote in "the wall street journal." >> i think the problem is that the stories -- her story was that it was perspective, not retrospective next second story was it was not being used, waterboarding, and now it's -- it seems to get more developed. i don't think rove -- people like to get the story. >> if we're going to have the debate, let's have the whole debate release the memos and see it all. >> which memos. >> i don't want to get in trouble. >> he wants to be the

beneficiary. >> how great torture was. can't wait to see that. >> don't worry, c-span heard you. you're covered. see you, patrick. >> it's true that it's going to be -- this thing other i'm surprised the torture this bigger than the war. >> but it's not though advantage of the obama administration to have this debate. it sucks all the air out of the white house. they need to move forward. it's great tv. >> i don't want our enemies to see nothing happen. >> on book matters, did you see that in the book i adopted your washington read discussion right up front? no index in the book so a chris matthews can't -- how. >> how do you go to a library doubt were. >> you can't take a look on what page -- i gave you credit. >> they mentioned me and they

take a shot at me i get bat. if they don't mention me i get angrier. i don't know which makes me angrier. >> i'm going do introduce you do my wife. come here. >> i'm not embarrassed bat it. come here. >> meet my very good friend. kitty kelley. >> how are you? i'm mike smerconish. how are you? >> yeah. [laughter] marvelous. >> thank you, cheers. >> wait, chris. right here. right here. woody,