they held hearings and subpoenaed@@@ s%gl the reauthorization of the voting rights act. i'd think that is egregious. it is the civil rights commission that made the record that led to the act. every time it was reauthorize, the commission went out and did public hearings in supported it.

as far as i can tell from reading what they said, they opposed it because they thought we did not need it anymore. host: let's here from minneapolis on the republican line. caller: i have always been impressed with your moral standing and your commentaries on television. i have a quick question. one of the biggest problem in starting new businesses is that when you bring your project, it could take up to 10 years to build the company and get it going. there is not a lot of talk about the venture-capital industry. it is getting close to the 25th anniversary of working with the state legislature to get some loaws that say if you start a

company and then get cheated out of it, essentially working without getting paid, that it would be taken seriously. does the civil rights commission consider this to be as important as i consider it? we have seen a lot of cases where people start a company. they have a family. they're moving into a homeless shelter and wondering what happened to their company. you have a group of lawyers that come up with a scheme to cheat them out of it. it is not as obvious as race or anything else, but it is a serious problem. guest: i think issues of economic opportunity ought to be within the purview of the commission. that is why i said there should be as civil and human rights commission. it would not try to draw a bright line between race, age, economic. it would look at people as human beings. people should have human rights

because of their humanity. they should see that things are connected. they are often connected. that would be instead of trying to separate them out. i think something like that could be looked at. i also think that a civil and human rights commission ought to look at international issues like the ones we have been debating. torture, the human rights conventions that the united states has signed, how we pursue our international obligations. every year, the state department does report on countries around the world. then we identify which ones we think are not -- that we think our human rights abusers. the even numbered them one in two. -- the even numbered them one and two. we have been asked why we do not do a report and ourselves. i have been told that the commission should do a report

every year on the united states and how we're doing on our applications. i think that we should do that. -- i have been told the commission should do report every year on the nine states and how were doing on our obligations. caller: i want to thank you for the time you have put in. we need so many people like you. i wish we had more. i would like to talk about domestic terrorism. we have many ideologues who try to push their opinions and rules on other people. i am against abortion. but i have been a volunteer bodyguard for friends with strangers who have to cross the lines at abortion clinics. every one of the protesters say it is murder but they also support the death penalty. there was the doctor yesterday

was very much on the side of women. is there anything you can do to stop these guys? the ideologues include people like osama bin laden. we have those of through our government. -- we have those all through our government. guest: it looks like that was murdered. to have disagreements and then murdered people, that is unacceptable as a form of punishment. the only way to make that clear is to punish people when they engage in that and try to protect those who are exercising their freedom, whether or not you like what they are doing. host: we have a picture here of the protestors in 2007. the title is "you can forget

civil-rights in this country host." guest: that title is from one of our hearings. there is a large air-american, mainly christian, community in the detroit area. -- there is a large arab- american, mainly christian, community in the detroit area. they kept complaining. they implied it would be put in internment camps like the japanese-americans were during world war ii. that is a great embarrassment to this country. host: this is the bicentennial of abraham lincoln's birth. they just rededicated the monument this past weekend. guest: the president of tuskegee university spoke. i have been a member of the

board of trustees there for a long time. they spoke with the memorial was first opened. host: how do you think abraham lincoln would you the civil- rights condition in the country today? guest: i would love to talk about what people would do today. i'm often asked to do that about martin luther king, for example. i think abraham lincoln based on everything we know about him, he was a wise man. he was pragmatic. he had a human touch. i think he would look at obama as president. he would look at the great progress we have made with sotomayor nominated for the supreme court. i think he would say that we are on the verge of a new birth of freedom. host: the firefighters of new

haven say their civil rights were violated. what is your view of how this played out? guest: one point i would make is that everyone should remember that no one got promoted. that is the first thing. it was not a case of promoting some and not others. they threw out the test. the city throughout the test -- the city throuew out the test because they did not think it was valid. they need to go back and find a new way to assess people. they need to have all sides agree that they will use it. they need to have a time line on it. whoever makes it ends up getting promoted. we should remember that everyone is working there as a firefighter. as far as we know, they are all good firefighters. you've had the attention and the department since 2003. it is 2009. perhaps that the parties had sat down and agreed upon a solution

in some time london, we would not be sitting here. finally, if they had used the test and promoted the firefighters, we would be looking at a lawsuit by the blacks and latinos firefighters against the department. no matter how they did it, they would end up with a lawsuit unless there was an agreement. host: we have a call from cincinnati on the republican line. caller: i have a question on the recent supreme court case you mentioned a few seconds ago. the actual case was northwestern utility district vsersus holder. i read the transcript of the oral argument. i thought the chief justice asked interesting questions in the case. i wanted to get your comment on that. at one point, he asked the deputy solicitor general -- he said it was a really sort of

business with race. he asked about a logical stopping point for having the voting rights act and having things like affirmative action to correct discrimination and the lingering effects. we have an african-american president now. at what point is raised not going to be as much of a factor as it is now in our society? i will hang on and listen to the answer. guest: i hope it will over be a factor in terms of acknowledging that people have different racial and cultural backgrounds that we will all respect. as far as making decisions about employment and things of that kind, i think the obama presidency is very important. it does not answer the whole question. if it did, the employment discrimination complaints at the eeoc would not have increased exponentially. most of them are about race. if it did, you would not have

the asset gap between blacks, whites, and latinos increasing. there are signs that all is not well on race. i would think that mr. roberts from his line of questioning in the case we just talked about, that this case probably will come out in a negative way on these matters. i do think we should all work and strive to make the situation where race does not harm someone. our history and experience tells us we have not quite gotten there yet. host: we have mike from california on the independen ts'line. caller: i'm going to make it quick. i was born in 1969.

is it true that the 1964 act was created by kennedy specifically for black people? if that is the case, why is it that white women, mexicanswomen, asians seem to benefit from it? does illegal immigration undermine the civil rights act? who named black people of black? i would rather be called colored, to tell you the truth. guest: because of the problem that existed in the 1960's that was in the south, it involved mostly black and white relationships. the civil rights act was focused on that. you can see that in the record.

it was just as reconstruction focused on slaves and ending slavery. that was the issue at that time. i pointed that out as a matter of history. i said the civil rights act was passed for these reasons. i was attacked for saying that no one else could use them. that is just wrong. this is not what i meant at all. anyone can use any law after it is passed and added. they are general. they apply to all people in our country. but there are different historical circumstances. in the slaughterhouse cases, the one prevailing law was about blacks. who called us black? there is a whole history of the word.

i cannot give the whole thing to you here. i have forgotten your second question. host: you have your blood agreed from the university of michigan. the next call is on the democrats' line. caller: i am a first-time caller. i just retired. i enjoy this program all the time. when i was younger, you could not get me to watch it. i was born and raised in alabama. during my era, we marched. my sisters and i had nothing to do that summer. it was 50 cents to join the naacp in georgia. we did that. you have to step on mile in our shoes to understand what it is about now. for me personally, it is still there.

i ignore it. i feel it but keep walking. host:@@@ @=ñ reform does not attack what is fundamentally the problem in our communities, in

my opinion. you will always have the people who benefit no matter what you do, no matter where they came from and what you do. they will overcome. but for many youngsters, their problems with their home, family, and economic circumstances, as well as what goes on in school. you should focus on teachers. you should focus on teachers and what goes on in the classroom. but there needs to be support for the kids. i remember my tipster teaching first grade. she would bring kids, and feed them. she would wash their clothes for them. she would make sure that they got to a doctor if they were sick. she would help them. teachers cannot do that. there should be networks to provide the services that people need who are in these circumstances, as well as teaching them as hard as you can in class.

otherwise, that teachers cannot cope. you wind up with high drawop out rates. alongside achievement scores, we still have high dropout rates. those have not been made the focus of attention and reform. host: the next call is on the republican line. caller: i'm a 60-something year- old woman. i have been a democrat since 1961. my husband and i voted for the first time together in 1961. that was until last year. he and i have always voted according to our beliefs. we try to stay very educated and up to date on issues and what people have done, not just what

they say they will do. i do not feel i can vote adequately or in a meaningful way if i do not know their history. my question today is concerning the activities of the coacorn ad other groups. my husband and i changed last year because everything is in the news. you have more access to hearing the news now than in years past. there is a lot about the activities of acorn. there are even people standing on the streets.

nobody seems to be concerned about that at all. in the last day or so and our local newspaper there was an article on the front page. the local leader of the democrat party said their plans were to do whatever it takes. to me that is very disheartening. what kind of message is that to our young people coming up? host: thank you for your thoughts. guest: i do not think anyone should decide party affiliation based on whether or not there is voter intimidation, fraud, or problems in the elections.

there are problems with both parties. both parties have a history of being occasionally accused of doing things. in chicago, they used to say to vote early and often. there are stories about dead people voting. in the elections that have taken place recently in baltimore, there was a concern about people being told that the vote would be on a day it was not on. flyers were being sent around telling people where to go. when we did the hearings in florida, people did not know where the polling place was. it was somewhere else. one party was controlling it. in that case, it was the republicans. i think we should all work to stop that kind of voter fraud and intimidation wherever it happens. i cannodo not think deciding wht party belong to is based on

whether one has totally clean hands and the other does not. i think the education issue with education reform, to look at what works and what is happening around the country is an important issue. the commission should update the report we did years ago called "who is guarding the guardians ?"on the police. the police are important to our cities and communities. there should be training to keep incidents from happening like the shootings in unintended consequences. i think that would be a good thing to do. the commission could even do something on achieving

diversity and balance in our society. there could be consensus on how to do that. there is also immigration reform. go after the hot-button issues. immigration, lbgt writes, don't ask, don't tell. all of these issues are right for some kind of commission been reached. i think the commission could do that. host: we have michael on the independents' line. go ahead. caller: i m a retiree -- i am a retiree. i feel it is more important to include all races. it does not matter whether you are black, white, hispanic,

asian, or whatever. don't all people have the same rights? to push for one race over another -- to include certain people over other people, it is not right. it is about everybody. it is about everyone's rights. look at the native americans that have suffered. they were put on reservations. host: michael, we are running short. we will get an answer for you. guest: i think you're right. the goal is to be all inclusive in the opportunities available to have justice for all. we see some milestones.

how long did it take before we had a president that is not a white male? how long will it take before we get a latino on the supreme court? how long will it take to get an openly gay american as the secretary of defense? the goal is to do that. the problem is overcoming the history and being aware of it to do something about it so that we can move to where we want to be. that is really what the problem is. host: the last call is from tommy in chicago. caller: i want to make a quick comment. i have one question. my comment is that the fiber of our country is so deeply rooted in racism, prejudice, in injustice -- injustice.

that is my comment. do you think there will ever be justice for all in this country? guest: i absolutely think so. i think the goal is a worthy one. i think it will happen. if you look at the achievements we have made even in the history of when the commission started and the civil rights movement existed, if we look where we are now, we can tell that progress is possible. the main thing is to keep working at it and not be engaged in denial. we look at what happened and what is happening now.

headlines. "washington journal" continues. host: how did donald

rumsfeld view the role of public service? guest: he was very interested in public service from a very young age, inspired in college when it advice stevenson came to talk to his graduate in class. that was at princeton. stevenson urged all the students to use their educations to put them to work in public service. not long afterward donald rumsfeld ran for congress and became the youngest republican member in 1960 and believed in public service. he served not only in congress, but also in the nixon and ford administrations and returned