skills or what not, but because he connected math with something you saw work. i mean the simplest example is the way for action is taut, so that matheny abstract i think is very difficult. i will also, i had not thought about the question but part of the answer i feel for better or worse, i think for better, it is we don't have to train mathematicians as much anymore in our societies because they are being replaced by mathematicians from korea, india, china. i.t. jed u.s.c. down the road, and the engineering school and the math and the biological

sciences as well are very, very heavily asian and asian-american so, like many things in america, we have outsourced malouff learning. and we know the people on wall street can't count for the dam. [laughter] >> a piece of the question was writing about living people of versus dead people, for lack of a better word. any thoughts on that? you have these amazing files of material. [inaudible] >> the answer is definitely yes. i mean if you have a story that is exciting to right, i think you quite naturally begin to imagine dramatizing it, if it is that kind of thing. and, i mean, there does not have

to be a competition for categorical choice. you can only go down one road. i think any story that has human themes that are powerful and are moving can be traumatized. i think, to dramatize rutherford 's life, i don't know and i would have to read a lot more. you would have to read richard's book. i know that i trace them back, they live in very, very modest homes in brooklyn. the whitman family were a family of carpenters that built that houses. the father, walt, george all build houses and sold them and they lived in these very small dwellings. a lot of questions have arisen about, to the family note that walt was what we would now call?

that were did not exist in the 19th century. of course there had been a long scholarship denying that some walt whitman was. i discovered that he had a very active love life while he was a nurse, but i got back to, i actually needed to understand how big the house's work, how they were built and the walls with up that. the rooms were quite close. and walt in the period of 18583 teen 60 lived with another man in his mother's house. every night they wind up together to the same bedroom so the idea that they did not know what was going on was unthinkable. once i saw that, it is the human drama. i can see them, i can see them in the room and i can see the fights that they had and i think it is quite natural to think of something like that. >> let me say well i am in los

angeles that i would love to see a film. >> note to anyone here. [laughter] and they are just so many become just one example, i remember what else, after a lynching of a friend of hers in memphis, she tells blacks to leave memphis. it is a city that can no longer protect them and the oklahoma territories are opening up in this period of time. .. because

many of them cross in the arkansas river and they have everything with them. they have their wagons with every belonging that they have with them. with their dogs and their families and their -- and they're talking among themselves. this is all reported. saying, you know, this is right. we need to leave until there's some justice and i'm going to find canaan. and there's hundreds of scenes like this that's just incredible. sure, it would be great -- it would be vivid -- many vivid ways to talk about history in that way as well. >> our time is up so make it quick. >> i was at the intersection -- i've been thinking with these questions the intersection between scientific knowledge and

the knowledge of the humanities and the liberal arts. c.p. snowe was also a student of rutherford's at cambridge and they were friends and they were once going to a dinner at the house together of the head of the english department and snowe was talking about how brilliant this man was and what he had written, what he had interpreted and rutherford who was extremely well-read said, yes, i know he's brilliant but don't you sometimes wonder or wish that he knew why if we press a button at the front of the house, a bell rings in the back? [laughter] >> with that our time is up. please join me in thanking our panelists. [applause]