south stream. south stream is also very expensive. on the energy deal, i think this is a strong signal that if turkey continues to come up they signed agreements and putting pressure on them to bail out of the agreements to

supply gas to europe, with that being down. finally on your question of territorial, first of all, we have seen president medvedev went to moscow to negotiate on karabk and peace. and the question if azerbaijan thinks that moscow is the right venue, it's their decision. our paper here on first bullet, we uphold the right of sovereign states to those states period. it doesn't single out georgia and ukraine, but clearly azerbaijan is entitled.

and you know my track record, i was a supporter of peaceful resolution so that kazaban is a supporter but stays within the borders of azerbaijan. >> the former directors of gas, and i have never found out if this had impact on west/german relations or if that's rather unimportant. and second question, i have research in afghanistan, what is the current relationship of

russia and afghanistan in terms of energy? >> i can address about gas problems and the ex-german prime minister. if you look at it in retrospectively, and how he wound up there. there was a key period between 2003 and 2005, where he was providing cover for president pudin, whether it was shell or v.p. and he wound up at gas prom in a prominent position. and the russian adherence to the rule of law became a big issue in the elections that lead to the election of mrs. murkol that's critical of

russia in the rule of law. it more symbolizes what was happening for a two to 2-1/2 year period. >> second question? >> yeah, i can take a stab. and this system has been trying to create more of a balance between russia and west and china. i think he's weary of russia influence in neighboring companies. one of the reasons i think he didn't want to tie himself too close to the csto. and there is criticism of janav

and that russia brings countries that are ostracized by the west and for that fear, we will help maintain you, we will help to maintain your system without rocking the boat. but if you go too quickly to the west, you don't know what they are up to. i think he's smart enough to realize what the russians are up to, but it's a difficult system to balance. >> back over here. >> hi, anthony king, i am a student at santa barbara. this question is for mr. cohen, and i apologize if you

addressed this, but could you extrapolate on the plan "b," that u.s. and allies take if obama should be buffed. >> first plan "b" is a series of paper and special report and three conferences. but seriously, be prepared to share. and steve will contribute to that too. seriously i think that there are -- there is a debate in town about whether u.s. has any leverage over russia. so for plan "b," we have to undertake an assessment. what is our leverage? bakers spring said that the administration has not done the assessments on nuclear weapons and defense. but we need to have an

assessment. what is our leverage on russia. someone that i don't necessarily gladly quote, freeman said when you go to middle east and negotiate, i am in favor but i want to have maximum leverage. whether we go to negotiate with the russians and chinese, we need maximum leverage. what can that leverage be? it can be among other things, hard -and-fast ways that government officials and corporations are playing with their finances around the world. there is plenty of russia money, property and investments that need to be examined. if you are trying to get tough in terms of the legality of the

tax regimes and money laundering issues. that's one area somebody could take a look. this is transborder, transnational area that needs to be examined. secondly, we need to take another look on security in the neighborhoods of russia. in ukraine in south caucuses and central asia. we mentioned turkmanstan, that's in a situation where both the bush administration and current administration doesn't have an ambassador. that's a scandal. why won't we not only have an ambassador there, but probably start working on getting the president [inaudible] can you repeat?

we need to get him here. and start talking seriously about gas. otherwise all the gas will go to russia. so there are many things on energy security, on hard security, on money laundering and finances that can be done. but i would rather not spend time on that at this juncture. >> ok, take one more question. >> hi, from american progress, this question is for mr. sanders. this question has come up of the u.s. president and government and state department can be so eager to repair things with russia in wake, and that certain issues and interests fall to the way side. my question is do you think it's highly likely that human rights or rule of law in russia is an issue that will fall by

the way side. or that other interests that u.s. and russia have in common? >> i hope not. there is definitely a risk of that. we saw some with the prior administration. but i hope with this administration they will stick to some policies they talked about during the campaign and election. and that president obama will stick with positions he's taken before. and we have to be careful of what we expect. it doesn't have to be public to be effective. it can be -- and maybe more effective if it's done privately. because in a public speech and reaganesque movement and it may not work with the rule of law. not that they oppose it but could make life more difficult. and can't be seen as cowing to

the demands. but hopefully privately these issues will be raised. and in an effective manner. not that my constituency requires that i raise and it doesn't matter. for both it's in the issue of peace. >> would you consider this similar to iran or more options there and situation there. and restrained his options? >> i have to go back to the conference on iran. thank you. >> the panel has done a great job this morning. in fact both panels have done a great job. ariel and janusz and sandy for doing a fabulous job. obviously this conversation will continue in the public

domain and in this auditorium for a while. join me in thanking this panel with a round of applause. [applause]