tulowitzki. looks at him again. and he is dead at third base. you just have to take off when the ball is hit on the ground and run right to third. those two looks problemly cross maybe a run. more importantly it is bad base running and you hit the nail on the head. they have to tighten the base running. >> bob: nick also ran sort of a circular route to the third base bag which i found a little odd. but i saw a play earlier tonight when troy tulowitzki was on first. and ian stewart hit that double to right center. troy tulowitzki spent the entire time between first and third watching the ball. >> rep ball. >> rob: he had no why what was going on. >> bob: you might be able to score on that. >> rob: oh, yeah. should have been on third on one play and he should have score on another play and he was on third base. >> bob: yeah. >> rob: what are you could go? >> bob: guzman takes care.

11:00 p.m. back home. we are having a beautiful night here in colorado. a great nats fan is here cheering on the nationals. her husband steve fell ill a couple of weeks ago and couldn't make the trip out here. she asked us to say hi to him an we are happy to do that and so she says hello and from all of their fellow season ticket holders in section 319 at nationals park. we have been impressed by some of our nats fans who we have run into here in colorado. so we hope steve is feeling better. and maybe a little late game scoring in an inning or two. here is todd helton. 0-2 with a walk. that's her. >> rob: her daughter lives in singapore. she is a nats fan. >> bob: they were out here for a celebration of her daughter's recent wedding. but steve got sick and couldn't make the trip. >> rob: nats fans all over the

world. >> bob: willie harris to nick johnson. two outs. brad hawpe will be the batter. tonight's tell cast presented by authorities of washington nationals. may not be reproduced or retransmitted in any form and accounts and descriptions of this game may not be disseminated without the express written consent of the washington nationals. 1-3 with an r.b.i. single back in the first for brad hawpe. bradhawpe. trying to close out the 7th inning here get the nats back in the dugout with the bottom three hitters in the order coming up.

>> bob: has got a little deception in that delivery that would make it hard for a left hanker to hang in there. shawn is not a big guy either. >> rob: check the delivery out. >> bob: all right. >> rob: pauses and then throws to the top. 

 >> bob: breaking ball. good swing. that's what you call going out around the ball and getting the sweet spot on it. brad hawpe came in batting .349, ninth in the league. that will get troy tulowitzki to the plate here in the inning. the nationals by the way as we referenced their hitting lows with men on have stranded 16 runners in this series in 16 innings. >> bob: if you're getting good pitching and defense you can wait for offense. the thing you can't wait for is people to watch the ball. so manny knows this team is

very much in this game. deep short. guzman. kicks it. and the runner is going to third. he nonchalanted a ball. never hit his glove. that might be the sec ball in this series that hit him in the leg. that is not fundamental defense right there. you're speechless, aren't you? >> bob: i can't describe that play. i don't think i have ever seen that at this level. he didn't even get his glove down low enough for it to hit his glove. >> bob: his second error. they could hurt the rockies by

doing something like that. i think cristian guzman -- >> rob: honestly, if i saw that and i'm manny acta i would have pulled him off the field and put out alberto gonzales. >> bob: you know what i think, rob, that's what happens after you play all those years on astro turf. there is never a bad hop. guys get into nonchalant habits. >> bob: i have seen this time an time again from guys. he played on the turf in minnesota for a number of years much years. it's not the same on a natural infield. >> rob: there is no excuse for that. >> bob: front door breaking ball that stays inside. 2-1. but i know there are a lot of shortstops who plied on turf who over the years just got into a habit of playing to the side never getting their body behind the ball. >> rob: i'm in the buying that. he has not been on turf in ears. of that lazy. >> bob: i'm not blaming the

turf i'm blaming the players. >> rob: right. >> rob: cannot take anything for granted in this game. and with two out that play has to be made. >> bob: 2-2. stewart now. taking it low and away. going three innings. a lot of pitches tonight. zimmerman. burnett here in the 7th. time called. wanted the pitcher to know i'm not holding him on. >> bob: with a runner off first going burnett strikes out. stewart did his part. bergman and burnett three scoreless innings out of the

bull pen. bard, harris and a pinch hitter coming up. ♪ ♪ who's watching? ♪ tell me who's watching. (muffled music) ♪ who's watching... (announcer) it's right here. it's easy. ♪ i always feel like somebody's watching me. ♪ it's the money you could be saving with geico.

 >> bob: coming up on july 15th at regency furniture in wall waldorf. you can get in free but your donation will be greatly

appreciated. 33-year-old right hander joel peralta. 40 games for kansas city. he was with the royals the last three years. with the angels back in '05. rockies bull pen isn't the same as the rest of their team. their position players have almost all been drafted and developed by this organization. but their bull pen is patchwork of guys from around the big leagues as many bull pens are. josh bard 2-3 tonight. the nats may have to pinch run for him. josh just can't run with that groin injury he is nursing but found a way to go 2-3 tonight an raise his batting average

to .284. over his last 22 games now josh is hitting around .370 with an on base average over .450. you saw willie harris who is next. great swing by way foul. >> rob: guess you can say he was looking for that fastball. >> bob: i believe he was.

change-up. see you. that ball right out over the plate and it will be willie harris' turn with one out. >> rob: when a guy throws this kind of 1-2 pitch to you very hard to pull the trigger an swing at it. nice off-speed change-up. perfect location. >> bob: willie harris 1-3. willie gets jammed. fly ball to center. got some carry to it. has to have some speed. two outs. austin kearns will pinch hit in the number 9 spot. come on.

kearns 2-16 with a couple of r.b.i.s percentage hitting this year. you hope for austin's sake that a guy he faces will make a mistake so he can run into one. it's been a long, long time. he hadn't hit a home run since the 26th of april against oliver perez at city field. kearns is 11 for his last 74. >> rob: he has not called a lot of strikes down low tonight.

>> bob: kearns going the other way and gets a base hit. >> rob: nice job. >> bob: didn't try to pull the ball, didn't do too much with it. that will get morgan to the plate here with two outs. >> rob: this is some good hitting right here. austin staying on the ball. not been getting a lot of playing time and to get a hit like that. nice job. >> bob: they have another left hanker out there. alan embree. >> rob: yes. he is on his way. >> bob: morgan will face a lefty. >> bob: couldn't get it done last time against franklin morales. hopefully this time. one out, two on in the top of the 8th in a 4-4 game. doing nothing, you know?" tdd#: 1-800-345-2550

tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 "oh, i'm not thinking about moving my money. tdd#: 1-800-345-2550 i am moving it."

 >> bob: here is alan embree who first pitch in the big leagues 17 years ago with the cleveland indians. 39 years young. kearns is running.

picked off. he falls down after todd helton drops the ball. we will try to figure out how to describe that while we go to the bottom of the 8th. our 737s fly to over 65 cities across the country every day. woman over p.a.: this is your final boarding call. all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 miles per hour. almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. starting august 16th, fly southwest airlines from bwi airport to boston logan for just $49 one-way. bags fly free on southwest so our low fares stay low. grab your bag. it's on. - ( ding ) - book now at southwest.com.

 >> rob: bottom of the 8th inning. the thing that makes this tough is that kearns is running.

todd helton drops the ball and if austin doesn't fall he is probably into second base. eventually tagged out by the pitcher. >> rob: almost like he got caught in between steps. >> bob: kearns a big strong guy. unusual to see his legs give out on him. >> rob: he may try to pick them up right there. >> bob: bottom of the 8th. gonzalez. then the pitcher's spot for the rockies. lots of bats on their bench. they haven't used any of them yet. >> rob: we talked about physical mistakes are going to

happen. austin will get over that. his pride is hurting right now but that happens. it happens. >> bob: unfortunate because he was feeling good after getting that pinch hit. so here is chris 0-2 with a sacrifice fly. and now as we get to the veteran part of the bull pen. the youngsters bergman an burnett have done their jobs tonight. three scoreless innings on only one hit. slips tabreaking ball by him. 1-1. joe beimel. this ballgame has been tied since the rockies got those two unearned runs back in the 4th. 

 >> bob: that's a good breaking ball. low and away. dropped down the side arm there. strikes out ian starting out the 8th. gonzalez is next. >> rob: have we seen a guy hit a ball -- can't describe that. another hit off a guy's foot. never got a glove on it. then you just saw a guy fall down and he didn't trip over anything. maybe it is the thin air. >> bob: odd thing about that inning, alan embree didn't throw a pitch although he did

have to throw the ball to first base and then tag out the runner. carlos gonzalez. 1-2 tonight with a walk.   >> bob: throwing one wile as he walks him on four pitches. julian has done that on numerous occasions this year. when he has gotten the first batter and then just gone out and walked the next guy. huston street. at best having the lead. if you're the home team there is no chance for a save after the top of the 9th anyway.

so why not have your closer ready to keep a tie game and give yourself a chance to win it. >> rob: the perplexing things about gonzalez walking again for the second time tonight when he walked last night he is hitting under .200. almost like there is this fear factor. okay. got a lot of potential. make him swing the bat. mind boggling. >> bob: seth smith is a former arizona 48 round draft choice. didn't sign. went to ole miss. then the rockies took him. three years later as their second pick. >> rob: talked to a 43rd round pick. orlando hudson. going to the all-star game. >> what a great pick up by the dodgers. >> rob: absolutely.

piazzo was 52nd round pick. >> bob: his dad and tommy. runner goes. good jump. good throw but late. gonzalez is in scoreless position with his fifth steal of the year. so the walk turns into the equivalent of a double. and now here is clint. gone 3-0 on another hitter. willie thought they had him. >> rob: looks like they caught him on the arm before he got to the bag. >> bob: i thought he was safe at first. 5-5 gonzalez this year.

threw that ball 2 feet outside on a 2-0 pitch. as we talked recently, some of the veterans in the bull pen that are struggling. there is a good fastball. their share of struggles over the last few weeks. bergman and burnett were very good tonight but when your starter only goes four that's a long bridge from one side of the game to the other. >> rob: lanan goes eight. then you had stammen go seven. >> bob: i think manny's expression says it all. he is just he can exacerbated.

they are going to pinch hit ryan spilborghs for him. manny was waiting for the announcement to be made an now he will come with joe beimel. they are going to pull the kid fowler and got someone with more experience in there. we will see how it works out for jim trac and manny acta and joe beimel. woman over phone: no problem. you know, maybe other people are content to sit around and wait. wait for something to happen. for business to pick up. but for you, it's time to kick it in gear. time to get going. time to get tough. take control. you're not gonna run and hide. because backing down's not your style. grab your bag. it's on. ( ding ) i've never been all that great with my money. probably because i've never had much.

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 >> bob: 4-1 in the 3rd after josh willingham had homered. brad hawpe a couple of hits an r.b.i. 1-9 with runners in scoring position. i think every one of them have been a ground ball hit weakly into a double play. hot scenario here. this is an indictment. they announced a right-handed batter to pinch hit for fowler and then manny waiting for the announcement brought in a left- handed pitcher to pitch to the right-handed batter because he couldn't watch him walk another guy. >> rob: you can't wait for him to walk the bases loaded. so no problem with that. >> bob: just odd the way that works out. so here is ryan spilborghs. the only person trying tonight i think is manny acta.

>> bob: ryan spilborghs 1-9 with a couple of r.b.i.s as a pinch hitter. 29-year-old outfielder. hit .313 for the rockies. even batted in the lead halfoff a couple times last year. julian tavarez. and right back to joe beimel. got to be 2. and they miss. gustav map had the guzman. caught by willie harris. that sun believable. you couldn't ask for a better double play ball back to the pitcher. >> rob: shot back. one hopper. willie harris is backing up the plate. joe beimel thinks he is there

at second anthros it to willie instead of cristian guzman. ball over cristian guzman's head. that's a communication play much that's whereas a pitcher you need to turn around and know who is covering second before you throw the pitch. >> bob: fielders choice. error on joe beimel. bases loaded. one out. clint. folks we are trying to sit here and not feel like this game is slipping away but it is really tough right now. nats make their third error of the night. >> rob: it is not just that, bob, it is you're killing yourself. you're beating yourself with some of these plays. i can't honestly sit here an say, oh, yeah, the colorado rockies are really taking it to

us tonight. they are not. no hits in this inning. >> rob: no hits in the inning. nothing but walks an errors. starter didn't have it tonight. he had four walks. five innings. four innings. >> bob: and a ball out to center. morgan catching it. rockies take the lead. look at this. what is going on with seth smith? the run does count. boy, casey better not be watching somewhere from somewhere because we are wondering if anyone can play this game. @p @>pk@c@" ep6l.xopnpq.cp+pgú

 >> bob: one half inning ago it was austin kearns sitting on the bench wonder what had just happened now it is joe beimel whose throwing error as ruled by the official scorer results in the rockies scoring an unearned run. rockies shore up their defense by moving carlos gonzalez from left to center. and then ryan spilborghs who hit for dexter fowler stays in to play left field. and then you're dealing with huston street who saved the ballgame last night with a pitching to contact one, two, three 9th inning.

>> bob: nationals top of the order. morgan was at the plate when austin kearns fell down between first and second and was picked off. >> bob: morgan, johnson, zimmerman possibly dunn here in the top of the 9th. ball 1 high. by the way, we have the possibility of a pitcher winning this game without throwing a pitch. blap 

 . >> rob: you're the tying run you've got to get on base. >> bob: 93 on that heater by street. past 20 saves only blown one. he has a scoreless inning streak of seven and a third which is pretty good for a closer. that's like seven, eight games.

slaps the fastball out of play. >> rob: he was trying to take it to left field. >> rob: that's what we would call a flasher. just trying to put the ball over the infield. then he is in business. >> bob: slaps that one to troy tulowitzki to the left. got it in the big glove and the big arm took care of the rest. 

 >> bob: nick johnson has had a good night. on base. two walks, two hits. i would imaginein ray knight will have a thing or two to say about this game if the score doesn't change. one for nine with players in scoring position tonight. starting pitcher couldn't make it past the 4th. not a good combo tonight. nick johnson really hitting one hard to left center. it's going to be run down by

ryan spilborghs. two out. >> rob: into left center field. ryan spilborghs pulls it back in. >> bob: ryan zimmerman the nationals final hope. ryan 1-4 tonight. three-run homer. two double play balls and it is strike 1. 

 >> bob: and the rockies trying to go 26-11 under jim tracy. zimmerman trying to keep it going for adam dunn. but adam has had a tough night. 0-4. three strikeouts. zimmerman gets out ahead of it and fouls it out of play. seems like a long time ago, doesn't it? >> rob: three-run homer off jason hammel. change-up by huston street down and in. hope he tries that again.

game over.   and there aren't many nights lately we have been able to say the nationals did not deserve a ballgame. they did not deserve this one tonight. >> rob: hard slider by street. 5-4 rockies win it after they trailed 4-1. back in a moment from colorado.  hi, my meeting got moved up. i need to change my southwest flight. woman over phone: no problem. you know, maybe other people are content to sit around and wait. wait for something to happen. for business to pick up. but for you, it's time to kick it in gear. time to get going. time to get tough. take control. you're not gonna run and hide. because backing down's not your style. grab your bag. it's on. ( ding )

starting pitching. base running. >> bob: bottom line nationals

basically beat themselves tonight. let's go back out to the mile high city. here is rob and bob again. >> bob: thank you, johnny. thank you, ray. started out in promising fashion. nats with some home runs leading 4-1 early. it was all rockies from then on and they will be going for a sweep tomorrow. we will be with you at 2:30 p.m. nats extra tomorrow first pitch right after 3:00 p.m. eastern. masn sports.com for all the latest news on the nats. this has been a presentation of masn. stay tubed. nats xtra. johnny and ray with an appearance by rob dibble coming up right now. captions by: caption colorado, llc 800-775-7838 email: comments@captioncolorado.com >> welcome everybody. ray knight, johnny holliday with you brought to you by our friends at verizon fios.

5-4 ballgame all tied up going into the 8th inning and they come up with a run and this is like a highlight film of major league baseball with plays gone wrong. and the nationals on the end of that streak. >> more like triple-a. a throw to second just doesn't happen. errors on balls you're not getting down on. runner advancing going to third base making a circuit route. terrible again hitting in situations. and then not being able to throw the ball where he wanted to tonight with the breaking ball and it is a tough adjustment out there when you try to establish that breaking ball. just not as sharp. >> once again, jordan zimmerman young rookie right hander had a chance. again, three errors in this blame tonight, ray, which is, again, leading the major league in errors. >> stupid errors. not forced errors. just lying throw away a basketball when you're coming down the court and a guy is

standing there wide open and you throw it to the coaches. no way you throw the ball away at second base. joe beimel wasn't sure. willie a little shallow on his backup there. threw the ball straight to joe beimel. guzman a tad late. he didn't throw that ball firmly. he goosed it. again, five runners in scoring position in that 5th, 6th inning. >> bob: take a look at the defining moments. gonzalez walking to get things rolling for the rockies. >> doing what he does. you jumped out of your chair. he walked one, walked another guy. first, second. smith walk san diego. this is the plate right here. i don't know what happened here. you just can't do that. this is the major league -- you work on that day in and day out in spring training. fly ball to center field. deep enough to score and this is just another mark in it that shouldn't be there.

we outhit them. heck, only had two opportunities through six innings to drive in anybody. they end up getting eight hits to five runs and we just weren't able to do it. although our bull pen was pretty sharp in those middle innings, johnny as we were able to come in there and get their -- shut them down with bergman and burnett. >> bob: 57 loss col you'll. 24-57. 5-8-1 for colorado. run of the 8th inning, deciding run of the ballgame. alan embree gets the win. julian tavarez taking the loss. now 3-7. couple of nats home runs tonight. zimmerman got one. and also josh willingham. hawpe going 2-4 much 4. let's go back out to the mile high city. this is a game that as you guys mentioned so well, bob and rob,

it is hard to describe some of the things you saw in person during this game tonight. >> bob: johnny, almost a case of not knowing where to start. the defense was bad. but i think that's a biproduct of your starting only lasting for four minx. situational hitting continues to be a problem for some veteran hitters when that should not be a problem. rob, you and i, i think were going to get into a debate with ray on this. we thought jordan zimmerman's spif selection then obviously the location wasn't great. but i mean did he fall in love with his breaking ball and this is a guy that throws 95. >> rob: what happened tonight jordan zimmerman didn't recognize he didn't have a good breaking ball and he cannot fighting it and getting behind in the count because of it. in the 4th inning he threw 34 pitches total. so for me it is more you have to recognize what you have tonight, what you don't have tonight and even your catcher josh bard should have recognized, listen, he don't have a good breaking ball even though he is not giving um home

runs on it he is falling way behind time and time again first pitch not getting a breaking ball over. so you've got to be able to say, listen, i don't have one pitch tonight but i still have 90 plus mile an hour fastball stuff and good change-up and he showed that a little bit later with a couple of good change- ups. but get rid of the curveball and cut down on your pitches. 33 pitches. got his pitch count up there and then obviously location. was missing a lot. his fastball was running all over the place. so you try and do something different and you set him up a little bit maybe on the inner half of the plate and tries to lit that spot. so it is more of a lesson learned by jordan zimmerman tonight that in his 14th major league start i didn't have my best stuff, i have to cut and say i've got to go something a little quicker in the ballgame. >> bob: here is another thing. despite all of the things we are talking about at the back end of the ballgame with the bull pen, and then early in the ballgame with the starters, the nationals only gave up two earned runs tonight. it was the defense that did as much to lose the game as the

pitching problems. >> isn't that the way. i'm not going to argue with you i agree what you're saying much of it the breaking ball that he just -- ended up being one. location, location, location, just because the breaking balls were up. the reason for that, can't torque that breaking ball out there unless you just throw that special one. and when you do it is good. but if you miss it at all it just hangs. flips out there like a helicopter. one in two, heavy hitter five or six times then threw the breaking ball especially in that one inning and he saw how good his fastball was when he struck out todd helton. 94. ended up throwing 70 fastballs. 24 others and rob you hit it on the head, buddy and you always do on these situations. the breaking ball is not the pitch you've got to go to. just something soft. just something a little different to get the bat speed changed. the question to you is has he got a good enough changeup to throw the change-up in that

situation. >> absolutely. absolutely, ray. the bottom line with jordan is he can go out there with just his fastball and win blames and he has to get that through his head. i still think he is battling himself internally saying well, you know, they are probably thinking i'm going to throw -- it doesn't matter. you face nolan ryan. they dominated maybe a one-hit shutout throughout eight innings and didn't have hear best stuff. that's what pitching is all about. you have to recognize you have get stuff other than the breaking ball that you can rely on and sometimes it is even changing speeds with the fastball. sometimes you just throw a 2-0 vp fastball. sometimes you throw a bad 2-0 hanging curveball. and the guy will pop it up. but you don't have to always throw the strike or perfect outpitch when you're out there at the major league level. i think it was too much credit given especially to gonzalez tonight. he walked twice. the guy is hitting a buck 88.

you got to go right at him. don't put this guy on base. too fast. steals second base. at the end of the ballgame you end up losing that way. >> nats had a horrible night with runners in scoring position. overall hitting one for nine in crucial situations. so i don't think there is any department of this ball club that doesn't share blame. the offense, the defense and the pitchers for what happened. but, guys, you come to coors field and give up two earned runs. you're supposed to win the game. >> bob. >> you are. one last night. two last night. >> it was a total team effort. i think i stunk tonight too. i'm going to take some blame. >> i totally disagree with that thank you, mr. carpenter and thank you mr. dibble. tomorrow's game a day affair starting at 3:00 p.m. ray and i will be with you at 2:30 p.m. before we show the highlights of the zimmerman effort tonight. let me ask you a question. if the pitch is not working.

if you haven't got the slider. whatever it is, the fastball is a little off, is that the responsibility of the catcher to let him now or is that steve's responsibility or does jordan himself know. >> when you throw the breaking ball, shortstop pipper. when you throw it you know it is sharp. i think out there you don't believe -- you feel that that ball is going to break and it doesn't. it just hangs there. he did throw one good breaking ball to stewart that he hit hard but a combination. if the catcher sees the ball is flipping then he has to say you're throwing 98 miles an hour let's spot the fastball in and out. let's go to the change-up. only show the breaking ball at the bottom of the strike zone. just bounce it. don't throw it up here where if has a chance to get air under it. steve is on top of that. only threw 20. he threw nine of them in that one inning. >> colorado did take a 1-0 lead

in this ballgame. let's take a look at jordan zimmerman's effort tonight against the rockies in the first inning. he gave up the one run in the if he. >> played some bail. after that base hit up the middle. picked up off the runner. barmes. good pitch. fastball. 94 inside. didn't hit pa ball hard much got in on it a little bit. got into that infield quickly. then troy tulowitzki singling on a blooper to right center. stuart then doubles. this is a breaking ball i thought was good but it was down and in. hit a real high fly ball that josh couldn't quite get back to the ballpark and just continues to carry. then a pitch :/.iñout over the plate. did not do a whole lot. it hangs. enough for the ball to get out there. score the sacrifice fly. you see another breaking ball that hangs, stays right there. what we mean by hanging is when the ball comes in there it is supposed to break and have some serious tilt just like dropping an orange off the table.

there is a boot by willie and the breaking ball comes in there and is just like throwing a frisbee and doesn't break softly an gives the hitter a little more time to see it and they end up putting good solid wood on it. >> seven hits, four runs, two earned, four walks, three strikeouts. 2-0 the series lead belonging now to the rockies. game 3 coming tomorrow. ray and i will take a break and come back and continue with more. nationals runs tonight all the result of home runs. one from josh willingham and one from ryan zimmerman. headed for the all-star game in st. louis. back after this. ♪ yeah!

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>> 5-4 the final tonight in colorado. verizon fios. over 100 hd channels. fastest internet. this is fios and this is big. all the national runs coming in the 2nd and 3rd inning and all the runs, all four, result of the long ball. >> kind of like we normally do. score runs early then shut it

down late. and lead off right here. willingham hitting a home run on a high fastball. 92 miles an hour. running in on him. a good fastball hitter. 10th home run of the year. swinging the bat great, johnny. really is. better not throw any fastballs in. especially when he is ahead in the count. then zimmerman singles. that's jordan. look at him. he didn't know where it went. wasn't sure he got a base hit or not. gets the ball down the right field line then johnson hits the ball between first and second. got two big base hits tonight. now we are first and second. then zim going through this whole at bat. what a great bat. fastball right there. fouls. little late. this pitch. i don't know about that but 1- 1. slider. 85. top. then another curveball that he rips foul and breaking ball away. watch this. fastball. change-up actually moving middle in. 84 miles an hour change-up. and it was a shock. hits that ball hard. looked like he cut a swing off an saw that ball inside.

thought it was a fastball but it wasn't. it was a change-up. because of the speed of the change-up allowed his bat to flick out and hit the ball out of the park. >> 15th other than of the season. 14 all of last year. although he only played 106 games because of injuries. you can see some of the national numbers tonight. morgan with 1-5 night. nick goes 2-3. willingham 2-4. josh bard coming back. where he went to high school. cherry creek high school in denver. couple of base hits. the hitting is not the problem. the problem was the defense and the miscues on the bases once they got on the bases that couldn't pull this thing out. 5-4 they lose it. >> yeah, and how many times we get to say this word. situational hitting was good. we did get 11 hits. but it is not hitting all the time it is hitting in the right time. we are going to go right to the tape in the 5th inning as morgan singles a little blooper to center field. you'll see a lot of this. got that inside out.

chop swing there. johnson singles on a lin shot over second base. on time again. hit another bullet. zim gets a good ball to hit here. hits a rocket. third baseman. turn it over. i'm sure that's a double play. but he did hit that ball hard much in the sixth inning with two out. bard singles to left. he actually ended up going from first to third on the ball. willie singles to right. runners on first and third. they want ronnie belliard. then that brings up morgan. we are going to go through the scweens on this also. starts him off with a fastball right there. then a pitch right here. i don't know if it is a strike or not. >> strike. looks like it is the bottom of the strike zone. fouls a couple of balls off. takes a pitch away. another pitch out. then fastball just got by him. pounding him with three straight fastballs. two on, nobody out. in the 7th inning. ad am strikes on with two on. walk an error. willingham hits a ball in the

hole. this might have been the defining moment. get a glance here. you're going to see right here. >> he is looking back twice. >> he looked back and that caused him to lose some ground but he also took a bad route. doing a circle route there and instead of running straight to third base he runs about 98 and he is just out one set so if he does look back if he runs straight to third base there is a chance he will be safe there. harmless ground ball. but not excusing him, johnny, just not good baseball. nothing went right tonight and you are going to lose ballgames. you're going to lose ballgames because you're outpitched, outdefensedded, outhit but we were not. we just stunk it up. kearns picked off. throws going to right. guys not hitting. and these are games you just give away. and at the end of the season you'll stack up about a good team, about ten of them. bad teams you'll stack up about 25 of them. we are on about 23 right now. >> i don't know about you, ray,

but i know that manny acta has got to be fuming inside that clubhouse now. >> i hope so. >> if you give blames away, how much would that tick you off as a manager? go nuts. >> as a manager, coach, player, as a fan, as a little league coach. i mean in little league you don't like to see plays like that. i get fired up when i don't see the game executed and played right. it is a catch anthro deal. you've got to catch the ball throw and it to a guy who catches it. >> let's talk about the bull pen. two of the four that came in from the bull pen tonight very effective. jason bergmann just back from syracuse. flawless. burnett newly acquired from pittsburgh. flawless. >> i like it. i like the fact that bergman is here. i don't know about traverse right now. good pitch right here on a slider.

see how that ball goes to the ground. when it is down there there is not enough air underneath it to hit it harder. then burnett comes in. throwing the ball 92. 7th inning strikes out. i believe that was stewart right there on the fastball. and this kid as advertised he has the one-bat outing but i like the way the bull pen is setting up now. i don't like him walking people. >> i do not. >> talking about getting mad. >> he does that every time. he walks the first person. >> the thing that concerns you is manny acta likes him because he throws strikes. >> he is having trouble finding the plate. >> we will take a break and try to cool off the fox. nothing worse than a rabid fox as you well know. we will come back and continue to talk about nats xtra post game. manny acta's thoughts coming up in just a minute. hey mom i need some minutes.

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>> up with thing i'm going to tell you, i'm guessing he will be ticked about the walks. >> i don't think i'm as disappointed at the defense as the walks. i think walks are a curse. but that's been the recipe for us. we didn't even have to rely on our defense if we hadn't walked those two guys in that inning. so it is a combination. you've got to go after guys and make them swing the bat. >> with jordan zimmerman, he struggled a lot today. do you think it was pitch selection or was it location that he was having difficulties with? >> he just didn't have it. he couldn't locate his pitches. command was off. had four walks and way too many pitches. worked too hard for four innings. >> you had so many chances offensively and getting first and second no outs and not being able to push those runs through. sometimes it seems like the same old story. but what are your thoughts on this. >> yeah, we are just unable to

get that big hit today. we had our chances. we scored all our runs on the first three innings and then after that didn't seem like we could get that big hit to give us a lift. >> the bull pen was pretty good. pretty good with the three innings. >> those guys threw the ball well. burnett has been throwing the ball since he has gotten here. we like what we see. he gave us two very good innings. he went through some other good hitters an got us through very easy. >> bringing up a righty when you brought in joe beimel. he was so bad you had to kind of yank him? >> i am very patient but my patience runs out when there is a veteran guy and he is not throwing strikes. regardless, right left, if you're not throwing strikes i've got to bring somebody who is throwing strikes and joe beimel was our guy. and he did his job. threw the ground ball but unfortunately he threw the ball away. >> what did you see on the

guzman error, manny? >> which one? >> the one it looked like it -- his glove wasn't down low enough. >> it hit his foot. didn't get his glove down enough and hit his foot. >> tomorrow is another day. we will back to coors tomorrow afternoon for a day encounter. we will take a break and tell you more. dodgers won tonight. our 737s fly to over 65 cities across the country every day. woman over p.a.: this is your final boarding call. all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 miles per hour. almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. starting august 16th, fly southwest airlines from bwi airport to boston logan for just $49 one-way. bags fly free on southwest so our low fares stay low. grab your bag. it's on. - ( ding ) - book now at southwest.com. ah, just installed fios in the whole building.

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>> brought to you by verizon fios. that play in the 8th inning, back to joe beimel. throwing to second base. he explains what happened on that play. >> i knew i had guzman on the throw. just got the ball turned around. went to throw it over the base and saw somebody standing there and didn't realize it wasn't guzman and i just messed up and threw it to the wrong guy.

did everything right up until that point and got the ball i wanted and anticipated the ground ball. got it. and just blew it. there is no other way to describe it. >> with all those things happening at once is it a tough chance? >> not really. it is something you practice on all the time and i just didn't execute it. threw it to the wrong person. >> what they do i imagine in spring training is you throw right to the bag and somebody's got to be there. >> always throw to the bag, johnny. the guys got to be there but sometimes they can get confusing. i've seen it happen a bunch of times but right there, you just have to come up and throw it the to go bavment guzman has to be there. >> tomorrow, trying to get his first victory of the year throwing against the rockies in mile high. two rough outings. giving up five runs and going only a total of eight innings in each of those starts. 5-3 in the third. ten hits, nine hits. and he throws a lot of change-

ups. sink sinker, sinker. given up at least five runs in seven of his last -- five of his last seven starts. >> he is one of three four-game winners that the rockies had this past june. so their pitching staff pretty tough. our pitching staff young and getting better. >> their pitching staff a mixture of guys that know how to pitch. our pitching staff. >> so we hope you'll make a point to join us tomorrow beginning at 2:30 p.m. ray and i will be sitting right here. nats xtra pregame here on masn. for ray night. i'm johnny holliday. tough night for the nationals in the rockies area. losing it 5-4. we will see you tomorrow. captions by: caption colorado, llc 800-775-7838 email: comments@captioncolorado.com ♪ ♪ i always feel like somebody's watching me. ♪ (announcer) it's right here, it's easy... ♪ always feel like mebody's watching me. ♪ ...it's the money you could be saving with geico.

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>> welcome back to espnews. john buccigross and the coach. the reds trying to bounce back from that grubbing on sunday. hernandez off brad lidge. nawts them ahead lidge continues to struggle. falls to 0-4 on the year. the reds beat the phillies for the third time in the last ten meetings. brandon phillips, his fifth career multi home run game. depending on who you ask, the pedros saw the phillies throw a game on thursday afternoon. tim kurkjian, what kind of a fit would pedro be in >> i think he can be a fit if he wants to be a fit. that is not, you know, not want too much money to come back and

pitch the final two months. we cannot forget how well he threw in the wbc. i sat and watched him with a bunch of scouts when i was in scottsdale, and they raved about his stuff and told me it was the best they've seen him throw in two years. now granted the time he threw recently wasn't as good, but the phillies can get him without trading for anybody, and since the market for pitching isn't very strong. this makes a lot of sense, but he has to throw well today if there's going to be any chance of this happening. >> roy halladay is a former cy young award winner, and one of the best if not thee best pitcher in the american league. so why would the toronto bluejays want to get rid of him? >> well, he has a no-trade clause in his contract he's due to be a free agent after the 2010 season. the bluejays who probably won't be able to fulfill his requests have started taking those phone calls for a potential trade involving the right-hander. and they say that at least halladay is willing to listen.

>> you know, for me the best i can do is try to avoid letting this become a distraction and go from there. but, you know, i understand, obviously the economics of the game and how the game works. and, you know, i think it's a situation where i think what's best for the team if it's best for me then we go from there. but i think at this point it's too hard to tell. i think that basically it's just saying that this is an option that we have, and maybe we'll look at it. and i think that's really the extent of it at this point. >> the blue jays play in tampa tuesday night. they lose in 11. a walkoff home run for pat bureel. scott rolen extends his hit

streak to 24 games. the third longest hit streak in the majors this season. >> the tennessee titans will open their stadium wednesday and thursday to give fans an opportunity to remember quarterback steve mcnair. at the place where he helped put the titans on the nfl map. mcnair spent his last two seasons playing for baltimore and brian billick. >> he was quick to smile, quick to laugh. always had that sense of priority. he was a fun guy to be around. he always worked hard. i don't want to incident mate that he didn't work hard or dismissed his job. but he was going to have fun doing it. and everybody recognized that. and the real benchmark for me, we all talk about what qualifies a player as a assumer star or really great player. and to me, probably the biggest qualifier is does he raise the level of play around him. does he raise the level of the organization and everybody that comes into contact with him? and steve did just that a. but he wanted to perform at a certain level to match steve's

professionalism. >> fans will be able to sign a book at l.p. field that will be given to the mcnair family and can make a donation to the steve mcnair foundation. mcnair played from 1997 to 2005 in nashville. >> well, it looks like john and i will have the pleasure of working with avery johnson for another year. talks between the pistons and johnson broke off when they couldn't agree on money or years. the pistons have turned their attention to career assistant john cuester. why don't we meet him. >> the new york knicks and grant hill are very serious about each

other. donnie walsh and mike d'antoni spent nearly all day and night monday with the former all-star. the knicks did make hill a one-year offer for a portion of the mid-level exceptions. >> joe sakic has decided to retire. the ap reports that sakic will announce his retirement on thursday. just turned 40 on tuesday. broke into the nhl in 1988 when ronald reagan was still president. he played all 1378 games with the question beck-colorado franchise. you can see here of the players who played their entire careers with one franchise, one of the greatest and classiest players of all time, joe sakic, set to retire this thursday. >> one day after announcing at its introductory news conference that he'd love to finish his career with the flyers, chris pronger signed a 7-year

extension. he turns 35 this october. so one would think he, indeed, would finish his career with the flyers. >> still to come, albert pujols has been the biggest reason the cardinals are in first place. which teammate homered for the third game in a row? looks like someone forgot to tell lance armstrong he's been tell lance armstrong he's been off for four hi, may i help you? yeah, i'm looking for car insurance that isn't going to break the bank. you're in the right place. only progressive gives you the option to name your price. here. a price gun? mm-hmm. so, i tell you what i want to pay. and we build a policy to fit your budget. that's cool. uh... [ gun beeps ] [ laughs ] i feel so empowered. power to the people! ha ha! yeah! the option to name your price -- new and only from progressive. call or click today.

>> the cardinals, a one-game lead over the -- trying to show people why didn't happen on this night. ryan ludwick, three-run home run. cardinals win 5-0. rasmus, his third straight game with a home run, his fifth multihit game in his last seven. adam wainwright got the win. allowed only one earned run in his last 17-1/3 innings. >> giants and marlins. 1-0 giants, bottom five. uribe with a man on, and that's a home run. his third of the year. and the giants go on to win 3-0. barry zito, 8-1/3, no earned

runs, two away from his first shutout since 2003 but he is pulled every 107 pitches. six strikeouts and one walk. four hits. the n.l. wild card leading giants win 3-0. that romo came in for the save. >> the tour de france. that's the team trials. 39-kilometers. lance armstrong, 40 seconds off the lead. the team is the last one to start, at 7:40 eastern time. he would need to beat fabian kansas already rhythm here's where it gets interesting. he beat him by exactly 40 seconds, but officials say a fraction of a second separate the two teams.

cancellara given the nod for the yellow jersey. armstrong moves into a close second and is happy about what his team accomplished. >> the most important thing is that we won the stage, and we put time into our main rivals. before the day i told alberto, it doesn't -- we would like to win but it's important that we take minutes out of guys like that. i think we were fairly successful when it came to doing that, and as you know, the team time counts for individual time, and i wouldn't want to be two minutes down right now. >> of course, a heck of a vacation, wimbledon and now the tour de france. lance in very good shape. moved up to second overall. his seven previous few defrances armstrong was second

or third place. won his third tower tour in 2001. >> united states on you way has signed a three-er contract with milan. he has been a long-time star in the belgian league. the contract in part of the superb performances. >> coming up, manny ramirez ejected in the game. we show you why. top stories on the way. and magic johnson and kobe bryant speak at michael ja

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♪ >> a look at a few starting pitchers for wednesday. contreras has been the seventh best starting pitcher on our player rater. he is owned in 5% of espn leagues. he is pitching again on wednesday and is worth a pickup. homer bailey on friday, arguably the best of his 20 career major league starts. i would like to see him put together a few starting roles

before getting in fantasy. and if you're the gambling type, jeff suppan is pitching well against the cardinals since leaving them three years ago. suppan is 5-1 with a 2 -- 2.44 e.r.a. remember, for the best fantasy analysis every day, check us out at espn.com. >> in seattle, the orioles and the mariners. and the baltimore now leads 9-3. in this one. who is having a good day. luke scott is having a good day. >> you want to tune in to "espnews" wednesday a. the lakers plan to announce a major free agent signing,

presumely artest. we will carry it at 2:30 eastern right here on "espnews" ♪ >> coming up, he's baack in the big apple. manny wasn't even around to see the end of the game. who says lance armstrong can't do it again. today's tour tour de france is n the backs, and it was a day of remembrance as michael jackson was laid to rest in los angeles. ♪

what's up. welcome into our house. keeping you current on espn news. he is john, i'm the coach. and as we approach the all-star break, manny is back and on stage in the big apple. >> manny versus the mets fans. here's what happened. in the end, the reception a bit negative but nothing major. manny strolls to the plate and got called out. top second, 1-0 dodgers, bases loaded. 1-2 pitch and manny comes through. two rbis. kemp and furcal, and the dodgers have a 3-0 lead. ramirez was 2-4 and three rbis. in the fifth, 1-2 pitch appears to be outside, and manny, strike three, and tosses the bat and the helmet and the pad and throws it in the direction of john hershbeck. you knew what was coming.

watch what he does. he knew what he was doing. the ball did appear to be a bit outside. mets have lost four straight, and not getting very good news as well. reyes, cortisone shot tuesday, feels pain in his leg. carlos beltran will need a rehabilitation assignment once his bone bruise subsides. the dodgers win 8-0 on the night manny ramirez gets ejected. >> he maybe say that's a bull, but it's a good guy. i just threw my pad and i was walking to left-field, and i think he saw my pad close to him, and then he throw me out. when i was coming out in the fifth anyway, so i wasn't no big deal. >> i know with all the attention -- the booing and stuff from the fans, that's something he is used to. but all the attention he has

gotten since he has come back -- and i certainly anticipated it -- i don't think he is comfortable with and it it carries of. >> a's and red sox, jason varitek, a bit of a contract squabble at the beginning of the season. signed a one-year player option, having a good year. scores bay and drew. jason bay homered earlier. top 17 in. okajima relieving josh beckett who pitched well. two outs and two on. gets the groundout to pedroia. he gets the win as the red sox become the first american league team to reach 50 wins for the second consecutive year. >> meanwhile, josh beckett, definition of a stopper. with his win on tuesday night against the as in boston he improves to 6-0 this year when he takes the hill following a

red sox loss. the red soxless monday night. tied with matt cane, and 8 -- in night games, 2-2 during the day. >> how about the yankees? they won 10-12 in minnesota. bases loaded. top of the fourth, for a-rod. gets all of this one. a month shot in the metrodome. he thinks it's gone and it would have been except carlos gomez robs rodriguez. that was the only positive for the twins. they lose 10-2. baker allowed five earned runs. sabathia owns the twins. 6-1. 1.22 e.r.a. in his last seven starts against minnesota. >> the struggling tigers trying to snap a three-game streak. that's verlander, he would add

11 strikeouts to his total. he pitches at home, he is nearly unhittable. now, 5-0 this year at home. he becomes the first tiger pitcher with 11 or more strikeouts and no walks in a start since jeff robinson in 1988. 21 years. >> indians and white sox. konerko, one homer in his last nine games but he takes this pitch out to left. 14th of the year. a bit of a down year last year but coming on strong this year, having a solid campaign. there's another home run. off chris perez. the dude they got in the derosa trade. then it's a hat trick. off abreu. haven't seen him. i should. third home run of the game. 16th of the season. seven rbis and the white sox win

10-6. buehrle. three earned in seven innings of work. >> middle of the order guy's job is to drive in runs. don't get seven in a game a lot. you pride yourself on when guys are on base, that's when you want to be good, and that's the focus. you separate each at-bat apart from each other, and the good and the bad, and it's hard to do. i got some good pitches to hit. jimmy had some great at-bats in front of me. especially the grand slam. i feel like he wears guys down, and it's great hitting behind him. >> konerko mention ed his seven rbis, a career high. having a great career. 33 years old. could reach 400 homers, 2,000 hits.

big night for the white sox. >> angels, a one-game lead in the american west but the rangers lead 6-4 in the top of the seventh. a six-run fifth for the rangers who are losing 3-0. john lackey got knocked out. top seven, 6-4 rangers. >> a death that is so shocking to so many. the king of pop, michael jackson, died on june 25th. and many of us who were progressing through middle age couldn't help to feel that part of ourchildhood tied. celebrities and entertains from all walks of life gathered to celebrate his life in music. those who spoke includes kobe bryant and magic johnson.

>> michael and his family came from hundredle roots and he always carried deeply for those in need. and beyond all his records he broke as a recording artist, michael even made the guinness become of world records for the most charitied supported by a pop star. >> michael called me one day and said i want to talk to you about being in a video, "remember the time." but i had to double-check with jackie to make sure it was really michael. i was scared to death to go over to his house because this was my idol. he was everything to me. so i went over to his house to have dinner. the chef came out and said, what would you like? i said some grilled chicken. so as we begin to talk about the video and what he wanted me to do, the chef brought me out the grilled chicken, but he brought

michael out a bucket of kentucky fried chicken. [laughter] >> and i went crazy, like, wait a minute, michael, you eat kentucky fried chicken? that made my day. that was the greatest moment of my life. [laughter] >> i want to thank michael for opening up so many doors for african-americans. to be on day-time shows, late-night shows, be allow -- he allowed kobe and i to have our jerseys in people's homes across the world because he was already there, and he opened all those doors for us. >> such a classy ceremony, performances by jennifer hudson, usher, stevie wonder, all incredibly touching. >> i, too enjoy a bucket of chicken now and then. because of the coverage and kids watching, 10 to 15-year-olds

discovered his music as welch it's on the radio and satellite radio more. a touching ceremony today in los angeles. >> much more to come here on "espnews" hd. the phillies clarify their position on pedro martinez as he continues to look for a baseball team to play for. brent hill has his choice of teams to sign. teams to sign. where he might go next.wassup m. keys. keys. stacy, keys. girl. um. billy. hi, boy. saddle. hermes wassup, little buddy, wing-tipped sandals. let's go. nobody flying tonight. hold it there big guy. yeah the warp drive hand it over your culture is primitive, yet so funky. (announcer) captain morgan. calling all captains drink responsibly.

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>> welcome back to espnews. john buccigross and the coach. the reds trying to bounce back from that grubbing on sunday. hernandez off brad lidge. nawts them ahead lidge continues to struggle. falls to 0-4 on the year. the reds beat the phillies for the third time in the last ten meetings. brandon phillips, his fifth career multi home run game. depending on who you ask, the pedros saw the phillies throw a game on thursday afternoon. tim kurkjian, what kind of a fit would pedro be in phillie? >> i think he can be a fit if he wants to be a fit. that is not, you know, not want too much money to come back and pitch the final two months. we cannot forget how well he threw in the wbc. i sat and watched him with a bunch of scouts when i was in

scottsdale, and they raved about his stuff and told me it was the best they've seen him throw in two years. now granted the time he threw recently wasn't as good, but the phillies can get him without trading for anybody, and since the market for pitching isn't very strong. this makes a lot of sense, but he has to throw well today if there's going to be any chance of this happening. >> roy halladay is a former cy young award winner, and one of the best if not thee best pitcher in the american league. so why would the toronto bluejays want to get rid of him? >> well, he has a no-trade clause in his contract he's due to be a free agent after the 2010 season. the bluejays who probably won't be able to fulfill his requests have started taking those phone calls for a potential trade involving the right-hander. and they say that at least halladay is willing to listen. >> you know, for me the best i can do is try to avoid letting this become a distraction and go from there. but, you know, i understand,

obviously the economics of the game and how the game works. and, you know, i think it's a situation where i think what's best for the team if it's best for me then we go from there. but i think at this point it's too hard to tell. i think that basically it's just saying that this is an option that we have, and maybe we'll look at it. and i think that's really the extent of it at this point. >> the blue jays play in tampa tuesday night. they lose in 11. a walkoff home run for pat bureel. scott rolen extends his hit streak to 24 games. the third longest hit streak in the majors this season. >> the tennessee titans will open their stadium wednesday and thursday to give fans an opportunity to remember

quarterback steve mcnair. at the place where he helped put the titans on the nfl map. mcnair spent his last two seasons playing for baltimore and brian billick. >> he was quick to smile, quick to laugh. always had that sense of priority. he was a fun guy to be around. he always worked hard. i don't want to incident mate that he didn't work hard or dismissed his job. but he was going to have fun doing it. and everybody recognized that. and the real benchmark for me, we all talk about what qualifies a player as a assumer star or really great player. and to me, probably the biggest qualifier is does he raise the level of play around him. does he raise the level of the organization and everybody that comes into contact with him? and steve did just that a. but he wanted to perform at a certain level to match steve's professionalism. >> fans will be able to sign a book at l.p. field that will be given to the mcnair family and can make a donation to the steve

mcnair foundation. mcnair played from 1997 to 2005 in nashville. >> well, it looks like john and i will have the pleasure of working with avery johnson for another year. talks between the pistons and johnson broke off when they couldn't agree on money or years. the pistons have turned their attention to career assistant john cuester. why don't we meet him. >> the new york knicks and grant hill are very serious about each other. donnie walsh and mike d'antoni spent nearly all day and night monday with the former all-star. the knicks did make hill a one-year offer for a portion of the mid-level exceptions.

>> joe sakic has decided to retire. the ap reports that sakic will announce his retirement on thursday. just turned 40 on tuesday. broke into the nhl in 1988 when ronald reagan was still president. he played all 1378 games with the question beck-colorado franchise. you can see here of the players who played their entire careers with one franchise, one of the greatest and classiest players of all time, joe sakic, set to retire this thursday. >> one day after announcing at its introductory news conference that he'd love to finish his career with the flyers, chris pronger signed a 7-year extension. he turns 35 this october. so one would think he, indeed, would finish his career with the

flyers. >> still to come, albert pujols has been the biggest reason the cardinals are in first place. which teammate homered for the third game in a row? looks like someone forgot to tell lance armstrong he's been tell la(announcer)ng he's been what does greatness taste like? a miller lite. (announcer on call) ...he throws it across the field. he's got something! 30...40...50...he's got it! 40! he's got it! 20...10...he's got it! 5!...endzone! touch down!

there are no flags on the field! it's a miracle! (announcer) that's what greatness tastes like. triple hops brewed. great pilsner taste. miller lite. taste greatness.

♪ the cardinals, a one-game

lead over the stumbling brewers. cardinals win 5-0. how about rasmus'. third straight game with a home run. adam wainwright picks up the win. >> marlins and giants in san francisco. josh johnson, very good pitcher. allowed three or fewer earned runs in 14 straight starts. uribe gets him there a two-run homer. barry zit to pitched wonderfully for san francisco. hasn't had a shutout since 2003. had a shot here but in the end just a couple outs away from

that. romo gets the save. johnson pitches well but gets the loss. the giants' 12th shut out. leads all of baseball. >> it's july. that means the tour de france. the fourth day, the momtpellier stage. armstrong's astana team, the last one to start. cancellara had the yellow jeers. team finished exactly 40 seconds ahead of cancellara but folks say fractions of a second. lance armstrong happy with what his team accomplished. >> the most important thing is

that the stage and the time into our main rivals. before the day i told alberto, we would like to win but it's important that we take minutes out of guys like them. and i don't know the final results but i think we were successful when it came to doing that. the "time" counts for individual time, and i wouldn't want to be two minutes down right now. >> lance, in very good shape, after his team's win tuesday, moves up to second overall. in his seven previous tour at the france wins armstrong what in first or second straight. won his third tour title in 2001. >> to nba baseball. the lynx.

renee montgomery. 16 of her final 21 in the final two minutes in overtime. >> we stay current here on "espnews." coach k and team usa will be together four more year. espn.com learned mike k will stay as the coach of the team for the 2012 london olympics. oguchi own you way has been a star for a long time. he has superb performances in the run to the confederation cup final where they lost to brazil. >> top stories on the way, manny ramirez ejected from the game tuesday night. we show you why. top stories on the way.

also, magic johnson, kobe bryant speak at michael jackson's memorial tuesday in los angeles. you see what they had to say coming up next. there's something big happening at pizza hut.

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a look at a few start pitchers for wednesday. since his return to the big league jose contreras has been the seventh starting pitcher on our player rater. he is owned in 5% of espn leagues. shut down the tribe the last time out and faces them on wednesday. homer bailey was with the cardinals, arguably the best of his starts. i would like to see him put together a few solid outings in a row. he has been too inconsistent in his control against the phillies, it's not a great matchup. if you're the gambling type, jeff suppan has pitched well against the cardinals since leaving them two years ago. he is 5.1 with a 2.44 e.r.a. why such a gamble? 1-5 with a 6.80 e.r.a. at home

this season. for the best fantasy analysis, check us out on espn.com. block ♪ ♪ >> coming up, he's back! in the big apple. manny and the dodgers bring their agent to citi field but manny wasn't around to see the end of the game. who says armstrong can't do it again. don't have to look too far to find the seven-time champion's name. a day of celebration and remembrance as michael jackson was laid to rest in los angeles. we tell you how who of the nba's biggest names remembered the king of pop. ♪

>> what's up. welcome into our house. keeping you current on "espnews" now. he is john, i'm coach. and as we approach the all-star break, manny is back and on stage tuesday night in the big apple. >> dodgers and mets, manny versus the met fans. the reception, a big negative but nothing bad. top second, 1-0 dodgers, bases loaded. 1-2 pitch and manny comes through. two rbis, kemp and furcal, and the dodgers have a 3-0 lead. ramirez was 2-4 and three rbis. in the fifth, 1-2 pitch appears to be outside, and many, strike three. he tosses the bat and throws his elbow pad in the direction of the ump. you know what's coming.

he knew what he was doing. hershbeck runs. the ball did appear to be a little outside. mets not getting good numbers rayus, cortisone shot tuesday, still feels pain in his leg. carlos beltran will need a rehabilitation assignment. but the dodgers win 8-0 on the night that manny ramirez gets ejected. >> in my at-bat, you know, he maybe say that's a ball -- but he's a good guy. i throw my pad and walked into left-field and he saw my pad close to him and throw me out. i was going out in the fifth anyway, so it wasn't no big deal. >> i know all the attention -- the booing and stuff, that's something he is used to, but all the attention he has gotten since he has come back, and i

certainly anticipated it. i don't think he's comfort able with it and it carries over. >> a's and red sox, jason varitek, a bid of a contract squabble in the offseason. signed a one-year deal with a player option. 5 million bucks. he is having a good you're for the red sox. singles here, scoring bay and drew. 4-1 boston. jason bay homered earlier. play a very pro so i want to make sure we preserve that. admiral hutson. >> thank you. we have already in some respects made a decision that they're criminals in the sense we're prosecuting them in the first place. i don't thank you have to make the choice of prosecuting them all of holding them. if you want to hold them you can

hold them. >> other web gary? >> the theory that our present prisoners presumably, in the war but in world war ii and three and in non did we didn't prosecute himmler's driver. to the decision of the hostility once you decide you're putting aside the xm and decided you're going to prosecute somebody like kicks you have already in my mind made the decision he is a criminal. >> the point i'm trying to make is domestic criminal law applies the population would not allow this nation to hold a summit indefinitely, do we agree that? >> do any of you doubt that some of the people being held it released tomorrow when go back to killing americans? >> i agree with that statement.

>> i haven't looked to their files but certainly is possible. >> i went to complement this committee. i think he has taken a very reasonable approach to military commissions. historically valid and of the supreme court has told us how this should be formed and what we're doing with this bill in my opinion is setting a standard beyond what international law would require if they were brought to the hague and something the nation can be proud of. i don't think we have weakened ourselves and all the money extra process providing these detainees will confer legitimacy to the giles that is necessary for us to win this war and i think we're close to producing a product the nation can be proud of. >> thank you for all the energy and effort and experience you have put into this effort to. and has been invaluable. >> thank you very much and thank

you mr. chairman a for your work on this and i'm kind of a tag on here, and have some clarification questions. admiral hutson, and not following up from one senator gramm said, you made comments in regard to the commission and concept where recommendations it in your explanation you indicated you supported the concept. and have certain people on it and then you're kind of stopped in your explanation so i'm trying to find out the difference from then to now so i understand and have another follow-up -- i think the difference is time. we can't walk at cat back. we have tried this ties in it has been roundly criticized in a very much admire the work this committee had done with this proposed legislation. the question is what do we get out of the other end of the

process and i have to say that i have come to believe i change my mind and have come to believe that the federal courts demonstrated over the years their ability to do this in as i said before, i worry about the criticisms it will bring on the military that we're asking the military to trying to be the organization responsible for prosecuting the worst criminals in the nation's history. that is just not part of the dod and on forces mission. i think it is a distraction that is unnecessary given the fact we have this well-regarded department of justice federal

court system. >> let me ask you this,%, 2i don't worry too much about criticism and for the dod or others with a matter which two make in decisions you will get criticized for something he went to do something you think is very well intended but that is the way life is and i think the dod as criticism on many fronts of the decade's. i'm not too worried about that and that is why we design policy if you're going to get criticized for not, but do then believe that all detainees should go to the federal court system and should be any element of this. i say of the situation we're in now or in a future situation in conflict? >> was gratified when i heard j. johnson say was that although not everybody was but there was some administration preference

for oracle three court's. i am not saying that i can't conceive of a situation in a rich the military commission would be appropriate. i don't see these terrorists with the alleged terrorists as being warriors van woerkum pashtuns. i see them as being criminals and thugs that are mindlessly in heedlessly in iraq war crimes. and prosecute them as come most. >> what i heard there was and i want to make sure i am here what you are saying and that is in this situation the commission is not necessarily the best idea but you do not rule out another complex in the future a commission may not be a bad idea

then why not just set it up now? >> well, -- >> year earlier argument was we have gone down this path and zero cannot and i you have said it that it is ok maybe in the future that may not be determined so why not set it up, let's just do it. >> i didn't want to get into that because it's not a bad argument, once i set it up i would use it unless we're talking about at the. >> i guess my thought on this is an i listened to the chairman explain to this in a variety of ways and most recently in in one of our committee meetings. i am convinced him that is used to be a logical approach so i am struggling. of your rationale why isn't in

this situation and i guess i would respectfully disagree but i appreciate your comments and to the other to i don't know if you have comments but i'm trying to get clarification and i don't know if you have any additional comments. >> i would just say it is an interesting dialogue and there is not a real debate as to whether we should treat the situation we're in it as an armed conflict or rather treat as a law-enforcement criminal law matter but i think congress has made the decision in september 2001 to treat this as an armed conflict authorize the president to use military force. as i said in a prepared statement we do have to take account of the fact this is not a traditional war and that is why i think in the committee has taken some steps by changing the definition of enemy combatants from the wit was to try to limit

the scope of the armed conflict approach to this, but i think as long as we're in an armed conflict authorized by congress it is prepared to use of the military justice system to prosecute people for war crimes. >> thank you very much. >> senator, i think that the fact that we cherish our military and what our military does with this country especially to name can lead us astray and tried to ennoble all people that are warriors or consider themselves warriors run a war. there are lots of bad soldiers and lots of countries and they're so protected by the law of war is still treated as soldiers. my good friend and dean

hutchinson and think misses the mark a little when he talks about a dozen want to give credit and somehow noble them by considering them more years. he is right there are criminals. he is right they should be discouraged and are despicable and all of that but still based on what they have done they've made themselves into soldiers and into quite frankly formidable enemy of this country and that is why i think the use of military commissions and the law is not only consistent but paramount and should be used. i agree that the courts and they can be used may be a appropriate especially with the fences and don't have war crimes but it is an important tool for this government and they should use military commissions in the context of this war. >> thank you very much, i think his point is a critical one here that regardless of whether or

not people think that most or all of the detainees should be tried in our close records we're not addressing that issue in this legislation. we are trying to reform our military commission want so that it passes both in the supreme court. that is our goal and we're not deciding here where people would be tried whether it guantanamo or here, not decided whether or not tried by a commission or articles records but we are doing and think what everybody really wants us to do including to have procedures here which will pass muster. you very forthrightly the smallest in your answer hundred i got exactly that point and that is what our goal is here. it can be argued elsewhere about guantanamo or hear.

if you're going to have article three giles you clearly have to have those giles here. whether it is 10%, 30%, 70 percent, people held in guantanamo you cannot impanel journalists for article three crimes down in guantanamo, it is not practical to do it so there are many reasons why we got to perform this procedure is so they passed muster and are going to continue to make that effort. we think the three v for their contribution. there a difference of opinions but there are a valuable to us. if there are any suggested changes in the language that you have specifically other than the ones you may have addressed today feel free to get those to us this week for the record and not because we are going to be

taking this bill to the floor next week. we also have ever written statement that has been presented to the committee from professor david fraser of loyola law school in l.a., an article prepared by retired federal judge for the ensign all justice. these will be included in the record and if there is no additional questions if not another thanks we will stand adjourned.

now a discussion about the u.s. health care system hosted by the district of columbia medical society. panelists include society members and a group of congressmen were also physicians. of from the g. w. university hospital in washington this is an hour and half. >> when i went to georgetown

university medical center. a for medical school and residency and on the current president of the medical society of d.c. and past chairman of the board. i want to thank the medical society of the district of columbia for hosting this event and the members of congress and i think all of you in the audience for taking time from their practices to be here and thank the gw medical center for providing this opportunity and i want to thank all the staff and the riss people involved him in a planner schedule so we could be your. we have to the rumors of congress coming to my understanding is their friend was delayed but there on the way so we're going to start. dr. joe giordano. >> thank you very much, peter. it is a pleasure to be here and the meeting knowledge the congressman who have a tight schedule with a lot on the plate but i am pleased they're here.

members of the d.c. medical society and our own staff. dr. stephen it was the president of george washington medical center, trent cable is the ceo of the hospital here and dr. gary little who is a medical director and all you people here so it is a nice opportunity and i'm glad i'm here also. [laughter] chris asked me to make a few comments before we started and i thought when i would do is talk a little about the establishment of the trauma system that occurred about 30 or 40 years ago which i was involved with locally and i think it is important to do that because it gives us, it is pertinent to what we will talk about later on. back in the '50s and '60s the handling was abysmal. there was no ems system and no 911. the ambulances for nothing more than converted cadillacs there is some of your old enough to remember you push a patient in

and run to the nearest center, nearest hospital and at the hospital they could find just about anybody. a small hospital where i was a medical student there was a rule that every member of the staff had to serve one day a month or two in the er so is a psychiatrist, a pediatrician and neurologist had to be there and obviously didn't have a lot of experience so nobody had a lot of experience because it wasn't on as eight some specialty in those days so taking those patients and those institutions the results were abysmal and at the same time surgeons were coming back from vietnam. they have a whole different experience, they saw what organize systematic approach to the care of trauma patients could do. they not only got excellent results than previous wars and the community and asked why can't we do it here. and before you know there was a groundswell of enthusiasm to get

it done here that way. congress got involved and pass the emergency medical services act of 1971 which basically incentivize local communities to set up, centers and ems service and so forth. i came on the scene in 1976 and came on as a rastus surgeon in charge of the emergency room because the e.r. doctor, had quit. then that the chairman of surgery at the time said to me by the way fix the trauma thing, it is a mess on their so i got involved in the local politics and setting up the trauma centers we started to make about 77. local politicians and federal people try to put together and organize an approach with the ems service and set up criteria for establishing thomas center and was difficult with politics involved. everybody wanted to be a level one trauma center and even to indecency patients a level one

thomas center but we systematically worked through it and came up with a system that started about 1978 and improved considerably over the years and this was an only happening in washington d.c. the was happening throughout the country so that in a short time everybody had their trauma centers and organizations and 30 years later we could look back at that and say what a good job because we could be proud of the trauma center developed in that time. we have excellent institutions and average programs and everybody is dedicated to the care of those type of patients. in 1981 president reagan came here and we gave him and some care and deviate in the slightest bit we would have lost him but it didn't happen they got a we get excellent care and the lesson to be learned is that we can do it. we have a problem now, delivery of care in this turn age, we have a problem and we can solve this if we keep our eye on the hall which is taking care of the

patient. but the patient person -- just like in the trauma when we started developing the thomas centers. we can do it like we did then and i think in a few years will be proud of the system that as of that is my message today. will give the podium back to peter to line. [applause] bob. >> award in 1817 washington sitting was in the midst of a health care crisis, the federal city was overrun by quacks, impostors and charlatans that are prey on the local population. in response to any teenineteen in active congress granted the charter of the medical society of the district of columbia. this was signed by president james monroe and speaker of the house henry clay. since then the medical society has served a unique role uniquely and nationally on behalf of our patients. as part of this relationship and

to the federal employees health benefits program in model health care plan, physicians have been treating members of congress, federal employees and their families for almost 200 years. once again, and as a nation we are facing health care crisis, the quality and trustees of american healthcare is second to none. the problem with american healthcare is one of access, delivery and cost. we must make the right scientific evidence based agneses prescribe proper treatment for this crisis. a recent abc washington poll showed that 83 percent of americans are satisfied with quality of health care they received. other polls have shown that 70 to 80 percent have an edge at arrangements as good or excellent. studies show that 80 percent of americans have access to high-quality medical care.

yet an estimated 47 million people living in america are underinsured or uninsured. of these 20 million are working americans. for one of the existing government programs. do we need a home health care system or can we fix the one we have?

that does not involve a garment oversight, rationed care, cost overruns, limits on technology and availability of services and waiting periods. today i suspect we'll hear about this funding mechanism and others based on market principles. and the goal of all of these funding principles private or government is to accomplish universal access and universal coverage. as physicians we have serious concerns about protecting the doctor patient relationship from the intrusion of a third-party payers or the government. we don't want it washington bureaucrats, sorry gentleman, or insurance company ceo joining us in the exam them and monday morning quarterbacking the decisions that doctors make on behalf of patients. the best way to control medical decisions and cost is to empower patients by placing them back in health care equation. today we have a special

opportunity to pose tough questions to medical provider members of congress. these patriotic public servants are well versed as are all members of congress and the legislative branch of a government. however, this group is unique in that they all have years of experience as physicians treating patients, making hard decisions that affect the lives of patients. their knowledge is deeper than reading the new yorker, studying i think think tank opinion piece, skimming through a congressional staff or summary of engineering mph or collecting horror stories. instead they got up and delivered a baby in the middle of the ninth, they canceled the family with a loss of a loved one, performed open-heart surgery with a reconstructed across lead in a 17 year-old from ratan. beckham provide us with a unique perspective unlike any others in the city. unlike the tv show these are the

real house doctors. this is washington so we have patients and doctors from across the political spectrum ready to ask tough questions. we're going to start with a position now and then move to the audience. please keep your questions short and concise so as many people as possible can ask questions. feel free to address specific member of congress if you prefer and think all of you for being part of the solution. on our panel and is in alphabetical order where we have michael burgess, the 18th

district. rep. and dr. tom prius many of us now from the american medical association where he is active in the georgia delegation surgeon for 20 years and a three term representative for, the sixth district of georgia. and it dr. phil's perot, ob/gyn for 30 years, first term from the first district of tennessee. in addition, we have our physician panel at the end, dr. stuart cardiologists, and the chairman of the board, we have a vascular surgeon and past

president of the district of columbia, and we have a woman and internist and endocrinologist. we're going to start with dr. signees who oppose the first question. >> thank you, peter. i'm going to close -- pose the first question. during the healthcare debate there is much attention paid to the needs of the 47 million uninsured. as measures to ensure that all americans of quality health care should be a central piece of any health reform by congress i would ask who are the 47 million insured and how to provide them health care. >> thank you very much for the question before and specifically answered in that let me just thank dr. line, which dr. joe giordano who is setting the stage and give us a historical perspective. for all the members of the district of columbia medical society, the george washington

university hospital, the teaching center. my fellow members of congress, adopted members of congress and the d.c. physicians who are on the panel. the gop doctors caucus in the house of representatives was formed this year as we began the 111 congress knowing that this health care reform issue dick was on the front burner for president obama and the democratic majority and we came together and have been meeting on a regular basis since then talking about this issue and working on alternatives two what we'd like to call unfortunately throwing the baby out with the bath water and turning our health care system completely lock, stock and barrel to the letter of government and a bunch of bureaucrats but rather doing

what dr. covina suggested and that is fixing the system that we have a so obviously a big concern and the reason that most people would say including all of us on both sides of the aisle that the system needs fixing is because of some of us statistics that have arctic and mentioned today and the specific question 47 million uninsured and, of course, the reason for that because of the high cost of health care, health insurance, and what it is doing to our employer base and our job base and that sort of thing, but if we really need to be careful with statistics and 47 million is a huge number. of course, it's years everybody. but when you peel back the onion is important for people to understand that within that 47 million you have about 14 million of them were people

that are eligible already because of low income or disability for a safety net program such as medicaid or the chip program and the various states. 14 million of the 47 million. included in that 47 million and 10 million illegal immigrants. we provide education for the children of illegal immigrants and provide services for them but i would think that most people would agree that the burden of providing health care should not be upon the backs of the american taxpayer for illegal immigrants. 8 million in that 47 million are people that make at least $50,000 a. another 10 million are people that make least $75,000 a year, people that clearly could afford a good solid basic health insurance policy for themselves and their families but they just

use because of the way the system works, the way health insurance is set up, they choose not to have coverage and go there and take their chances. i don't recommend that and is something we can do about that. i thank you for that question and i apologize for a pretty long in the answer, but it is important thing for people to understand yes there are 8,210,212,000,000 people in this country who have no health insurance because they cannot afford it or they have illnesses are may be multiple diseases which prevents them up from having access to health care. they are denied the opportunity even if i have the money to pay for it, so that is part of what we want to offer in regard to fixing the system without completely turning it over to the federal government the. >> does anyone want to jump in with any follow-up their? we will go to the next question.

>> i like to ask dr. tom price and from our vantage point we have a crisis in our health care delivery system. costs are rising faster than wages and inflation, many americans are uninsured, and many more use emergency room as their main source of medical care. this as you know too well conveys very closely for everyone did not support this preventative measures that we have a provided number for the healthy lifestyle. speaking from the 2,000-foot level, how can congress address the rising cost of health care so that patients can access up on a doctor when they are in need? >> thank you so much for that question, i want to join the congressman and thinking you for

coming and propose that the medical side -- society district of columbia. the issue will of the health reform and the challenges that we have right now are very clear to all who have any knowledge at all even cursory knowledge of the system. the one foundation that i think we ought to all except is the status quo is unacceptable. all of you in this room to provide care for folks know that the status quo was unacceptable and we can continue down the road we're on now, provide no quality care for the vast majority of american citizens, not even 83 percent who are contented with their current health care. if you look at the two big issues that americans are concerned about, what is the issue of cost and they are concerned about the increasing cost of their health care. also concerned about the potential of losing their insurance coverage if they lose their job or change their john. if you think about what drives cost increases in health care,

it really isn't any different than what drives cost increases in the vast majority of the rest of our society. the issue of liability in causes significant cost to health care, not just in a malpractice insurance coverage that is purchased but also in the defense of medicine which i believe to be summer in the range of 250 to three her $50 billion a year, redundant tests lack of coherent health information technology system of electronic medical record system make it so that i as an orthopedic surgeon when our have a patient coming to my office i would oftentimes repeat tests that were necessary to be repeated when the actual care of that individual but necessary so that i could make a decision at that point in time or to be able to provide some coverage from liability standpoint. hundreds of billions of dollars truly so the liability costs are remarkable and significant.

the regulatory apparatus that all of you put up with that make it so much more difficult to be able to hold down the cost of the care that you provide so there are cost drivers and the system that make it so the people who are either receiving the care the, or the folks providing the care provide a physician or another provider are unable to squeeze any of those costs out their inherent in the system so if we where to address the actual cost drivers i think there are and we all do i believe there are hundreds of billions of dollars of savings actually to gain within the system itself so that those 47 million or 8,210,000,000 or 8,212,000,000, however, number of firms you think that we don't have the money right now to afford to provide coverage, we could, in fact, provide coverage for an back into a system where it made financial sense for each and every american two have health care coverage. and in so doing own and control

the coverage so that there are incentives in place to pull down the cost of the provision of that care. >> i think i was in the administrative costs and secondly the cost of chronic disease. cause of chronic disease has gone up dramatically and i just read yesterday that the costs for caring for someone who is morbidly obese is two times the cost of some who is not. i saw a petition yesterday in my practice into a talking about how she has gained a hundred pounds and has to have her knees replaced but she will try to lose the weight and postpone this from happening. i think as an orthopedist are seen as more than anybody. so i saw a cartoon ness said is in this great the federal government subsidizing sugar and

now we'll will tax soft drinks to offset obesity. [laughter] it is a crazy system we have here. the other thing besides mallard is a the segui has controlled costs, the federal code right now allows premiums two lower premiums for those patients who are involved in wellness programs and in so doing safeway has kept their premiums low. i like that because all of the physicians would agree that it is not patient centric it isn't going to work and it is a patient centric solution that incentivizes finished with a patient to participate in so doing their study that suggests we can save money specifically by decreasing the prevalence of obesity. >> my question is directed to dr. burgess, in this current economic crisis many are concerned about their jobs and what would you say to a patient or one of your constituents who

says i am very concerned about losing my job here if i do, how i get health care for me and my family? >> the patient who is employed or receives their insurance through employer sponsored insurance who then it loses in their employment suddenly discovers rather abruptly that the employer has been subsidizing their interest payment usually to the tune of about two-thirds of the actual cost. probably 1988, 1989 congress instituted a provision called the cobra provision that requires that individual will be allowed to continue to purchase their insurance for 18 months but have to pay not even just of the full premium pay 102% of the payment to cover the administrative cost and that is a burden that most people who are recently at a work look at it and simply can't -- there is no way they can afford it. we are not very creative about

allowing that individual two perhaps transition temporarily into a high deductible policy, held a savings account that might have a significantly lower premium continue to cover against the wind up falling to the pre-existing conditions trap of a get-tough diagnoses during that interval and be able to be picked up into a new employer sponsored insurance when they regain employment, but certainly the ability to have insurance policy that was someone wanted to lead to live is something that we have not done a good job of incentivize saying at the federal level. many things, even the wellness program, we put under the hipaa regulations, we have a put some rather strict requirements around that the we don't solomon -- don't want someone to sell to a well population because they offer the exercise programs at no additional charge, who is one

to think that has value? perhaps the answer individual who is willing to undertake an exercise program of the person who has gained the two or 300 pounds and now faces the liver transplant or the knee replacement. there are things we do about the structure, the insurance reform itself needs to be part of what ever discussion occurs the around when we do in providing for additional coverage for individuals whether it be something structured by the government or whether something structured by the private sector. my preference would be to give people lots of options, be able to pick and choose to have lost my job and not going to be about to pick up this high cover payment but i certainly can afford the $106 a month that's available to a high deductible blue cross blue shield provision that's available on the internet with there's a lot of competition and i can carry that as an individual until i can pick up the next insurance, but currently under the current coburn regulations that is very

difficult to do. we try to deal with that in the stimulus bill last february. we added a significant number of dollars to pay 65 percent of the premium for someone who has recently lost work, but again there's the problem, someone has recently lost work and even keeping up with their portion of the health-insurance premium during that interval between jobs may be something that most families simply cannot bear. so again i think more and more clever about how we started things, build more flexibility into the system and also we want to put the dollar of the purchasing medical power into the hands of patients and allow them to control cost that will do much better job than we will or some board. >> and i could add on to what dr. burgess said, absolutely this idea of a cobra if somebody loses their job they can

continue to get the health insurance through that particular employer only have to pay 100% plus 2% for 18 months, it may be that that person has been working for that company for 15 to 20 years and has developed coronary artery disease or all be sitting or some other chronic illness, type two diabetes, and so what happens after the 18 months once out and they try to get as mike said with a health savings account or individual policy, small group policy -- that have to pay three or four times standard rate or just are denied coverage completely. this is an area which we say again that we can fix the system in regard to insurance reform. not say to the insurance company that man or that a woman with the service cuttable coverage and because they have been paying all these years in the

insurance company probably made a hell the problem of that individual who may be gone to the doctor at most once a year for a checkup during all these years and then all a sudden they found themselves tossed out on the street, that shouldn't happen and we can correct that and do it on the current system. >> my next question will be directed to dr. rowe. much of the debate in congress is centered on a few core issues among them the creation of a government run health insurance plan that would compete with the commercial insurance companies. congressional republicans have argued that a government run health plan will and drive insurance companies that business which i can't imagine most doctors have a warm fuzzy feelings about insurance companies. [laughter] and leave patients with only one choice of insurance to buy. one and i would ask dr. road.

>> elaborate on this point from audience and to comment on the feeling that a government-run plan would actually drive commercial insurance companies out of business by offering patients coverage at a lower price and whether or not we think that is a bad thing and if it is why. >> thanks for the question. we have tried this experience with the public and in tennessee. we have a plan regarding exemption medicaid waiver about 16 years ago and was a very good goal to provide coverage for all of tennessee and south. what happened to be formed a manage care plan called 10 care and what that had was an offer a generous benefit at a lower price and when we found was about 45 percent of the people who went on at 10 care and private insurance but dropped it because they did get a better deal on that and what we found also was when the bills were paid you all know there's a difference between reimbursement and costs.

the tenn care plan update our providers hospital and outpatient surgery centers about 60 percent of their total cost. medicare pays about 90 in our area and assured pay summer and between so what happened was it was such a generous plan that it became over utilized and almost broke the state budget and the way the governor in our state and legislature control of this was that it had the people from the rolls. what i predict will happen is we'll have another over promising federal plan and promise more than it will pay for and businesses will make a permit the logical decision, they will drop it and put the person on the public plan. i think what happens pointing out the first opening statement it over time you end up with the single payer system the way they work is by rationing care. once you have used all the resources, all the money that is in the system you then create waste and that data is plethora are on the world on that. i think there is certainly i believe a better way.

we have done that experiment, cost went through the roof and i think you're going to see whatever cost use the estimated by these think tanks and the cbo will be way under because our cost are supposed to save money and again in almost bankrupted. >> i was going to add to those remarks if i could. we already have a a single pair government run system in a microcosm of which we call medicare and medicaid. most people in america don't understand that is heavily subsidized by private insurance dollars to the tune of about $1,800 per family per year. so as you see as that a single parent current run system and margins it puts more pressure on the private system out there. the private system is already in competition, literally hundreds of insurance companies out there

and in this idea about their not being competition and don't get me wrong, i am not with the insurance companies, but juicier costs going up with inflation and it is not because of lack of competition. it is because the of the subsidy factor that is happening for medicare today. we are having to pull an example is in your own emergency room -- someone comes here, they're treated under medicare, they're paying $0.90 on the dollar, something has got to make up the difference so is cost shifting. and then it disappears system even if it is just an option and of the rules are made up by the system itself, that is the government that it begins to impinge upon and eventually will cause a collapse in the private system so what you end up with is what you have today in the u.k. and canada. if you like what they have as exactly when you will enjoy here

and that is that only the wealthy, only the privileged have the opportunity to opt out of single payer system and go on to some sort of a private system so as you know we have numbers of people, probably that come to this hospital today because they can get an mri for your sake get it and go back in the waiting line for surgery in canada and the uk so i think we have to understand that to great issing appears to stem this not inject competition, and actually destroys it. >> and this one to add one great thing. no one knows at this point if there will be marking up in committee next week. we haven't seen it, there is a house staff that we looked at last week, there are a couple of senate versions, but one thing that does seem to be emerging is that there will be a public auction and then there's also going to be some sort of border or connector that is going to tell you what kind of insurance

will be qualified and that power and chile goes to the secretary of health and human services. i asked a question during a hearing last week, i have a medical savings account and the president said and i like what i have and keep it in with the secretary says that's not a qualified plan, hhs are harder to control. the secretary says my plan is not qualified then if i like what i have i can keep it with the then the time as they say i can't and one of the things we're doing is packaging as public option within this connector with this collective that is when to pick and choose what sort of insurance policies on to a market individuals. >> truly in a schizophrenic. on the one hand, we paid the insurance companies but that is where we make our private aircraft -- profit in our practice and like the fact because of the delay payment into these tricks. we hate what medicaid pays as but we like the fact that they

pay promptly at least a louisiana and like the fact that medicare pays property, so i think our hope is we will get the piven schedule of the private and the promise of the public but i think more likely will get the payment schedule of medicaid and the promptness of the private system. [laughter] i say that because joseph hacker de is of the brains behind and the public plan, he has a phd in political science from san francisco and it would seem strange a political scientist from san francisco with designer health care system that has been one of the things i've learned in my first year here. [laughter] but ended he says the problem is we are paying physicians and hospitals to much and in his paper he basically says once you have the ability to assign a payment you shouldn't negotiate payment, you should assign payment. and so it is like essentially been planned economy with supercomputers, they will wrap the cost of this medical center

and will assign payment. so i think that will start to get positions pause to think my gosh maybe i'll have the goods, no, they will assign payments but then be the insurance companies superstructure so again and gives us pause. >> we forget that medicare is administered while private insurance companies on contract with the federal government and this is not -- you don't get a check from the administrator. so there is no reason to think that this would be any different except on a much grander scale. >> i wonder how many doctors -- >> one of your required to participate as a condition of continuing practice? >> this is a follow-up question that has been touched on and a few points but i think it can be expanded a little bit. we have some government-run health programs such as

medicare, medicaid and other systems where the government is basically for them in a provider as a member of congress who has seen the health care from a number of different point of his, what experiences have we learned from this government program bikes are they all positive? we have to change something? what will you suggest? >> i think everybody here for helping put this together and by the way as far as we know this is the only forum in america taken place that brings members of congress together to our health care providers and other providers to what we need to do. despite the fact that congress is dealing with issues and rushing to the next three weeks. that may end up the a spending package with a budget bigger than the pentagon in all basis. but finally, they give gw in the hospital for working together. let's look at medicare and

medicaid. you know, does it work? let's look at members of congress. we're in the 111 congress, in the 110th congress there were 452 bills introduced by members of congress to change medicare and medicaid -- that tells me that members of congress want to happen about it. every bill has co-sponsors and the total number of 13,000 signatures saying something is wrong. why does it take that? right now you can't change medicare and medicaid except third act of congress. anybody here prescribe something for their patients medicare and medicaid but doesn't allow certain types of wheelchair, doesn't allow home infusion therapy, doesn't allow the positions to have such things that follow up and help the patient with chronic ellison, 15 and up being hospitalized many unnecessary but if dr. price one of their patients and orthopedic problem you want to say this is a particularly risky patient i want someone from office to

follow up, medicare and medicaid say go ahead we're not paying but we will pay if i have to go back in the hospital, it will pay him to amputate the leg of a diabetic will not pay interest to make a few calls a month. it is inhumane. we have a system here not based upon really working with health care providers, nurses and doctors and everybody else to improve quality but will pay for what you do. what comes back to buy this is this prejudicial talk around capitol hill that somehow by hospitals and doctors. they said most care is done in the last 90 days of life. because we're trying to save the life in the last 90 days of life. when we look to people with mental health issues, people with chronic illness have twice the risk of mental health problem. it took an act of congress to say it may be medicare on to help pay for that because when you have a chronic illness and depression and treated your health care costs go up. regardless of what a physician

may prescribe saying a thing you need some help with a serious heart problem, so what we have is the barriers and burdensome bureaucracy that have been between doctor and patient. i see very little if anything in the history of medicare and medicaid since the sixties which by the have not been revised and i don't see anything that's suddenly this might -- lightning bloggers of the dog can say we now know how to run health care. medicare and medicaid were designed precede t. scanlon and x-ray was considered a pretty sophisticated procedure back then so long time. we can do much more but as i want to add to the discussion of what has happened in of government doing this. we have a government-run plan of being discussed on the topic of the public auction because that words better focus but it is a government-run plan, you'll be able to anywhere in america by this plan. you don't have to worry about state mandates, you can join one

big group. to think about this -- wherever you are in america, wisconsin, new york, florida, georgia, you have to abide by the rules of your state and what does that mean? states have different mandates which make cost, they have a reliability issues which add to costs, states have different community rating which means if you're a 25 year-old triathlete you may pay the same as this is to a person who's free her pounds overweight and chain smokes and so that young persons as i won't buy this insurance and the older person says i will buy this at a cheaper rate. what incentive to have to buy insurance if you pay the same if you're extremely sick and don't take care of yourself. would you be willing on car insurance to say if i've never had an accident and drive safely and drive my car rarely why should i have to pay the same as someone who smashed the car 50 times.