yankees have won 13 of 15. now they go to a place where they have trouble winning. >> manny ties the the former yankee great on the all time home run list. late-game drama in milwaukee. how eye late race gamble paid off for one of nascar's young guns on the nationwide series. and three time major winner phil mickelson makes a big decision regarding the british open on. this is espnews. [closed captioning provided by

espn, inc.] >> welcome to espnews, along with kevin connors, i'm j.w. stewart. this is the latest the red sox and yankees have been tied for first in the a.l. east since august 2nd of 2006. >> if the yankees could just avoid playing the red sox. against teams not named the red sox, the yankees 25 games over .500 entering play against the angels. big reason why the yanks eight-game road win streak. they keep on keeping on. top of the third inning, still early in this one. a-rod, an r.b.i. double in the first inning. nick swisher followed with an r.b.i. single. johnny damon tacked one on in the second with an r.b.i. single of his own. the yankees have not trailed on the road now in 69 consecutive innings. we'll keep you updated on this one throughout the night. >> all right. john lester facing the kansas city royals for the first time since he no hit them last

season. and he was just as effective against them this time. eight scoreless innings. struck out eight. bottom eight. dustin pedroia off ryan bannister pitched very well. off the green monster for a double. aaron baits scores, 1-0 sox. bottom on nine, jonathan papelbon, a perfect ninth inni inning. the red and 20th of

september. so a chance to do damage head to head rickets. >> al: david ricketts, all the years of doing that day in and day out. they still do it with jeff murphy onround hit. and we think about that. only four playeith oakland in 1969. brady anderson in '96 with baltimore. albert up the center. got to

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women's open in bethlehem, pennsylvania. lorena ochoa entered the day in second place after shooting a 69 in round one. much worse in round two. misses the par putt on number 9. shot a 79 at 8 over par for the day. paula creamer entered the day 1 over par. her long birdie putt on numbere 10 on. count it. creamer with the 68 on the day. 2 under for the tournament. kerr's tee shot on the par 3, 17th. dialed in. she would birdie from there. shot a 70. she leads the field after two rounds at 3 under par. former champion, laura davies made the cut as did 14-year-old amateur alexis thompson who is in contention after 73 put her at 2 over and tied her for eighth. >> on his website phil mickelson

said winning majors in his main objective, but family is his first priority. with his wife and mother battling cancer, mickelson will not play at next week's british open at turnbury. mickelson's wife, amy had breast cancer surgery. mickelson's mom, mary was scheduled to have surgery friday in houston. the 2009 open championship will be the first major without mickelson since the 1994 maste masters. is that snaps his win streak in majors. the longest active win streak on tour. >> indians-tigers. good look at brandon inge. going 1 for 4. after making the all-star game and home run derby. 3-0 for anderson. trying to stretch that into a double. fernando rodney on in a non-save

situation. grady sizemore taps out to inge, with the bases juiced, the tigers win it 5-1. they're now 6-1 against the indians, another hard luck loss for cliff lee. three earned. eight strikeouts. lee hasn't won since june 14. now, 2 and 32 when scoring fewer than four runs. >> the pirates and the nl east leading phillies meeting for the first time this year. jason werth added to the all-star game earlier friday. he's homered in four straight. did not homer in this game. but the phillies will take this. that double brings home chase utley and ryan howard. phils up 3-1. brad lidge onhe for the save. gave up a home run to brandon moss. here gets pinch hitter del win young to end the game. 18th save of the year, and the phils hang on to win it. >> allowing one win in 7 and a third innings. the phillies have won 10 of the last 17 games against the

pirates. >> pedro martinez pitched a simulated game for the phillies and were interested in signing the three-time cy young winner. the 37-year-old allowed three hits, no runs, and striking out three. the second simulated game pedro has thrown for the phils. >> shut down the mets. bottom nine of a 3-0 game. david wright goes around on a checked swing, and arroyo, his first complete game since august of '08. his first shutout since september of '06. four hits, no walks. mets have scored ten runs in the last six games. earlier in the day, mets acquired jeff francoeur from the braves. ryan church, and neither player has been particularly effective this season. church with just two homers, and 232 at-bats. the slugging percentage just

.375. francoeur led the braves with 46 strikeouts prior to friday's swap. >> >> nascar nationwide series at chicago. there is 19-year-old joey logano. lap 59. green flag up until this point. no cautions in the race. new man had to pit because he was running out of fuel. lap 84. still on the green. joey logano in the lead. longest green flag start in a nationwide race in chicago. the previous best of 6 laps. lap 144, kyle busch in the lead for 50 consecutive laps. joey logano right behind him in second place. and with 25 laps to go, look at logano pass busch on the outside to take the lead. we go to lap 178. 23 to go. brad kozlowski on the tail of busch. contact, sending busch into the

wall. busch avoids disaster, unlike what happened to him saturday night in daytona. after the restart with nine laps to go, logano who didn't get new tires holds off kyle busch for the lead. the gamble pays off, and the youngster led a race high 96 laps. and joey celebrates with his team, the third win of the season. >> we finally got beaten there at the end. everyone pitted but us and the 38. so we were thinking you know we were going to come home with a second at least. so the clean air was big. this is the same car we won kentucky with and it was just that big. once we got a big gap, and kyle got in that dirty air, we were able to pull away. i was surprised. dave thought we were done. and i was like we're not done yet. but yeah, deep down inside i thought i was. but it's just awesome for these guys, you know. we've come up second a few times, so it's cool to get a win. >> with his sixth straight top two finish. a streak that's time tied with samard, for second longest in

nationwide series history. kyle busch stretched his points lead over carl edwards. that is the largest gap between first and second in the points this season. >> straight ahead on espnews. lance armstrong loses ground in the tour de france. why the seven-time champ isn't worried. plus, scott rolen puts his career high 25-game hit streak on the line against the orioles. kevin and i back after this. ♪ 100 calorie light beer with lime. miller chill. it's much easier to find money at esurance.

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have broken this game open by scoring six runs in the tenth inning against milwaukee. moments ago, matt kemp, a grand slam. carlos villenueve giving up all six runs in just a third of an inning here in the tenth. manny ramirez earlier in the game, his 536th career home run tied with mickey mantle for 15th all time. they're all downhill for milwaukee after that. >> drama in houston between the nationals and astros. bottom nine of a 5-5 game, it's jeff blum. part of a 3 for 4 night. the game-ending single scoring miguel tejada. 6-5, the as 'stros win, they get back to 500 on the season. nationals out 35 games under .500. 35 games under .500. carlos lee rocked his 13th homer. free falling bluejays in baltimore on friday. third baseman, scott rolen riding a 25-game hit streak.

top eighth. here's rolen. popping out to second. 0 for 4 on the night. the hit streak is over. the bluejays win it 2-0. so for the first time in more than a month, rolen held without a hit. ending his 25-game hit streak. rolen hit .390 during the streak raising his average to .294 to .330. it's the fourth longest streak in bluejays history. >> day 7 of the tour de france. lance armstrong was in second place coming in this stage. 224 kilometers. 139 miles. longevity stage of the tour. three sprints. five climbs, leaving barcelona. going through the pyrenees. faib can got a flat tire. all right, he changed the flat tire. gets back in the race. and later in the race, watch what happens to him. he almost gets hit by the doctors car while trying to pull away.

right here look out, coming through. he would fall back, and would lose the yellow jersey. team members alberty contador. and lance armstrong able to take advantage. and then close to the finish, able to make his move. 65 kilometers to go. lance armstrong's teammates, and he rivals with lance. the best climber in the world. should excel in the stages. he crosses the line. he's in second place overall. it is ronaldo who captures the yellow jersey. he leads after 7 stages, lance is in third. >> it's not a very steep climb. so the speed is high. he had these constant rhythm changes, and you had head wind in there, head wind, and it's maybe not my specialty. but not bad considering. >> it's not bauerest by. >> no, by didn't expect, you know, i didn't expect a

demonstration like some of the other years on the first mountain day. the wind wasn't conducive. you saw a big group there. we'll have plenty of days at the end of the tour where there's only a couple of guys together. >> they have a long way to go, that's for sure. overall standings look like this. there are two more days of racing in the pyrenees before monday's rest day. saturday's stage is a 110-mile route featuring three tough climbs. contador likes his chances. he says when i'm in the mountains, it's like i'm at home. >> second round play at the scottish open. they play, retief goosen, 7th hole chip. and for birdie. moving to minus 10. taking the outright lead. goosen actually topped a three-wood during his round. hitting it 180 yards. said the last time he hit a

drive 180 yards, he was hitting a six-iron. nice hole for adam scott, the birdie putt. former french open champ, anna he vaughanvich happy for her pal, scott in second place. >> espn.com reports the blazers have offered utah jazz free agent paul millsapp a contract worth $32 million dollars. they're still trying to trade carlos boozer so they can match the offer from millsapp. >> if given a chance to join the celtics or knicks, grand hill is staying home. the 7-time all-star will remain with the suns. hill played the first 82 games for the first time in his career will make $3 million in the upcoming season. >> speaking of the suns, espn.com reports channing frey has agreed with a two-year deal with the phoenix. free agent forward brandon bass signed with the magic. and the day after acquiring

jerry stackhouse, the griz waived him to clear cap room. >> top stories on wait, including the latest controversy surrounding manny many ra rez. and what the stoj dodgers star and what the stoj dodgers star did friday. ooooohhhh. i'm not beth. aaaaaahhh. ooooohhhh. (announcer) calling all captains. drink responsibly.

>> g-force going yard is brought to you by:

>> all right, a look at your g-force notable home runs around baseball on friday. carlos pena smacking number 24 on the season for the rays. and blalock goes deep for the rangers. no. 18 on the year. longoria, number 17. and pujols tops in major league baseball, 32 home runs for the cardinals en route to their win over the cubs. >> >> the all-star break is a popular time for fantasy owners to seek out trades that can help their team. in doing so it doesn't hurt to know which players have draft drastic splits from the first half to second half of the season. adam laroche is a poster boy for second half improvement in batting average. for his career. but it's even more pronounced. .247 before the break, .314 after. that's a 67 point hike. it's hard to ignore those

numbers, and you might get him for a lot less than other potential difference makers. carlos pena hitting a .232 batting average. might be disappointing if you own him. but consider he's hit better than .245 in the first half just once in seven seasons. for his career, he's a pitt 260 hitter -- .260 hitter. if you've got him, don't trade him. if you don't have him, see what you can do to get him. >> dan haren is the number three player overall right now. if the previous three years are any indication, now's the time to trade him. from 2006 to 2008, heron jumped to 4.41 after the break. and the whip numbers aren't pretty either. 1.03 prebreak. #.39 post break. it's hard to trade a stud like haren. but if you need hitting help. strike while it's hot. when it comes to fantasy analysis, we take no break from espn.com. check out our pod cast, videos

and chat. and have a great second half in your league. >> good stuff. 6-4, the twins beat the white sox on friday. joe mauer goes 1 for 3 with a run batted in. batting .388 on the season. mauer was also named to the home run derby at this week's all-star festivities. he talked about that honor after the game. >> it's pretty neat, you know. talked to the family. we were talking earlier. every little kid wants to be in the home run derby. i don't know, i might never get a chance to do it. so i'm excited about it. i'm bringing my high school coach jim o'neill with me to throw. we're going to have a good time. but definitely entering it to win it. so we'll see what happens. >> browns wide receiver donte stalworth is out of jail after serving 24 days of his 0-day sentence for d.u.i. manslaught manslaughter. stalworth who was suspended indefinitely will have two years of house arrest, and eight years probation.

>> brock lesser against frank myhre for the undisputed heavyweight title. at the weigh in friday, he tipped the scales at 265 pounds, while he weighs in at 245, he beat lessner in february. >> >> coming you up on espnews, the yankees have won 13 of 15. now they go to a place where they have trouble winning. >> manny ramirez ties a former yankee great on the all time home run list. late game drama in milwaukee, and drama off the field as well. >> how a late race gamble paid off for one of nascar's young guns on the nationwide series. and three-time major winner, phil mickelson makes a major decision regarding the british open. this is espnews.

>> hi, and welcome to espnews. now available in hd. along with kevin consor, i'm j.w. stewart. you know, kevin, this is the latest the red sox and yankees have been tied for first place since august 2nd of 2006. what's interesting is that against teams not named the red sox, the yankees 25 games over .500 entering play on friday, against the angels. of course, they're 0-8 this season. which is why they're 51-34. but out to a 4-1 lead. bot o fourth. a-rod, an r.b.i. double. nick swisher, a two-run single. johnny damon followed that up awith an r.b.i. single in the second. yankees have now not trailed on the road in 70 consecutive innings. we'll have highlights of this game once it goes final in

anaheim. >> so let's see what the red sox did. john lester facing the royals for the first time since no hitting him last season. this time around, 8k's, in 8 scoreless innings. bottom 8, pedroia, a little wall ball. that double bringngs home pinch runner, aaron bait. and the red sox with the only run of the game. bottom nine, jonathan papelbon, a perfect inning. gets the popout to kevin youkilis in foul territory. and the red sox hold on to win 1-0. in his last eight starts, john lester is 5-1 with a 1.48era. by the way, the royals acquired shortstop betancourt from the mariners for a pair of minor league pitchers. >> john lester hasn't allowed a run in 17 straight innings against kansas city. and his era is now 1.20. that's easily his best against any opponent he's faced at least three times.

>> mariners running high following their come from behind win over texas thursday night. they're on the short end of a 4-2 score right now against the rangers. bottom five. hank blalock, and michael young have both homered. franklin gutierrez has now continued to hit the cover off the ball. he continues with an r.b.i. double in the first inning. >> first place cardinals with a chance to put the cubs and sweet lou in a bigger hole. bottom three, one of the few mistakes chris carpenter made. derrek lee up, up and out of here. 17th home run of the season. that tied the score at 3. the top knive, same score, albert pujols. , for the 32nd time this season. 351st time in his career. that ties ralph kiner for most home runs in a player's first nine seasons. pujols also tripled in this ga game.

orsoriano said the way we played today, we're not supposed to play like that. we need to take care of our business, and that's what we're trying to do every day. it's always big winning the first game of the series. >> that's not how you want to start the series. made me nervous when they scored the three. >> derrek lee, you know, he got the pitch to hit, and he missed it. we came back, and you know, it wasn't an easy game. you still had nine outs left, and missed it. the numbers were waiting, so we got through it. >> everything is disappointing or frustrating. it's one game. are we pleased the way we r played? no, not today. but we'll come out and play

tomorrow. that's all you can do. >> friday was pujols with 62nd game since july 4 of last year. over that span he leads the majors in home runs, rbis and runs. were it not for joe mauer, pujols would have led the majors in all three triple crown categories. >> an eventful game in the late innings in milwaukee. the dodgers scored six runs in the tenth inning. this after trevor hoffman blew the save in the ninth. matt kempps grand slam. the fourth of his career, honduran attorney general, a man who refuse to listen to the honduran congress. mr. chairman this is a man who tried to undermine the legislature, the judiciary, the attorney general, the human rights. i am interested to hear what our panel has to say on this.

not only that mr. chairman, this is a man that when told no by the courts took it upon himself to storm the military base in seas and distribute ballots for an illegal referendum. bellock that hugo chavez fingerprints are all over. it seems to me that more, the more we look at mr. zelaya the more we find a man who believes he is above the law, untouchable in clearly a man who has no respect for democracy. i also look forward to hearing from our panel on the links between hugo chavez and mr. zelaya. since he was exiled mr. zelaya has been flown around the hemisphere on venezuelan jets. the ballots were going to be distributed for the illegal referendum were printed and flown from venezuela. for the more there are reports mr. zelaya has been involved in drug smuggling from venezuela and other places in south america. also there is little doubt that

mr. zelaya violated article ccxxxix of the honduran constitution which clearly states anyone who violates this provision must immediately cease the discharge of their duties. as the parties negotiate inco's the rica i want to make one last point. i believe the obama administration should be commended for making a renewed commitment to latin america. but at the same time by calling this a coup, and by early statements insisting on the reinstatement of mr. zelaya the administration owls dance with the lights of chavez, morals and ortega and not the honduran people. well we all want a peaceful and democratic resolution now is not the time-- now is the time to stand for freedom and with the honduran people in the fight against the tyranny of the bolivarian evolution.

mr. chairman thank you for holding this hearing and i look forward to hearing from our panelists later. mr. chairman i just want to say that yesterday on the floor, you had the opportunity to speak against the motion to recommit, talking about the oas and honduras. i have a different opinion. i believe the oas is a dangerous organization that is not, that is not fighting for freedom or democracy, but instead standing in the way and giving an opportunity for people like hugo chavez and others to use the oas to undermine democracy in the western hemisphere. i hope as we move down the road we can have a hearing that is more focused on the oas so we can have a lengthy debate on whether or not the oas is still an organization that should be

supported by united states. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. mack and you know i am always open to-- because we have seven gary excellent panelists and i want to hear from them i'm going to restrict the opening statements to two minutes for each person and we will go down the line and i will start with mr. meeks. >> thank you mr. chairman. i will try to do it in two minutes. first of all i think we have come a long way in the united states from where we were in 2002 where there was a coup d'etat in venezuela and within 48 hours we supported the coup d'etat government. we have got to make those improvements and i think we have made that with this administration. we clearly cannot turn back the hands of times are ahead the opportunity to talk to several heads of states including president area isoo said we could not allow coup d'etat cosson this is the government of other areas to try to figure out that we make sure we don't turn

back the hands of time and that is what this is about so i am as nervous as the chairman is that the hands of time do not turn back. whether mr. zelaya has done whatever he has done i don't believe that the military has the right to come in and pull him out. it would have been the equivalent i would think of, at the time when president nixon, who had violated laws in the constitution of the united states had he not conducted a process in which he would have been impeached, of having in the middle of the night the united states army going into the white house and taking president nixon out and having him exile. clearly there is a violation but there is something that has to be done within the democratic process to make sure that those who committed a violation in that office is democratically removed. also i think it is also

important that when you talk about the oas and in this particular situation that there are 33 nations and we talk about democracy and it took them, it was over 24 hours in washington d.c. working and trying to come together as an organization in the democratic process to decide what to do with honduras and it is not just the united states acting in a unilateral manner as the president has said that the united states acting in conjunction with others in the region to make the difference. we have got serious concerns here. i want to hear the witnesses and i wish i had more time but i am being gaveled already by my friend the chair and i will yield back. >> thank you mr. meeks. >> i will be very brief in my remarks but i do want to make a few comments and look forward to the testimony. i agree with the ranking member that this was not a military coup. this was ordered by the supreme court. the president was in violation

of its own constitution. he disregarded his own attorney general what is most disturbing to me is that these ballots of, that's zelaya ordered printed at least from the information i have came from venezuela. this is the same type of thing that hugo chavez pulled off in his country and it seems to me that that is the same pattern that mr. zelaya is emulating. i would like to know from the panelists and what i am most interested in and i think the ranking member indicated is what is the connection between mr. chavez and zelaya? what is the connection between venezuela and honduras? and with that i will yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. mccaul. >> thank you mr. chairman.

the unfolding events in honduras are both shocking and frustrating on one hand you of a president who overstepped his constitutional bounds and on the other hand you have a military that-- and our government is condemning the military removal of president zelaya look at the company wiki. we are supporting a man who plotted to hold an illegal vote and circumvent the constitution. in the ongoing debate whether the president's zelaya at the then democratically or if it was the military who acted on democratically. although it appears they are both at fault it is important to remember that just a few weeks ago president zelaya levee movement to reinvent cuba into the organization of american states. the oas resolution did not mention the democratic charter and now calling upon the hunters in the international community to uphold this charter.

these events make me series we question the stability of democracy not only in honduras but let america. governments throughout the region have made remarkable progress since the days of the military coup and the oppressive regimes of the actions and honduras severely obstruct this progress. unfortunately this is not the first time we have witnessed such unchecked power. it is clear the democratic principles of continue to be at risk in this hemisphere and i would like to thank the panelists that are here and i look forward to hearing what you have to say. >> thank you mr. sires. >> i appreciate the chairman's disappointment that the demonstration is a wall today. congress has the right and obligation of duty to know what the administration is or is not doing during this crisis. the world is slowly waking to the reality that what it first might have looked like a military use a reputation of democracy, courtesy of very

sloppy news reporting was actually the combination of the democratic process, a process that began months before. the branches of government of honduras, the supreme court, congress and the military perform just as they were intended to buy the wise writers of the honduras constitution. mr. zelaya was removed from office for is unconstitutional and illegal attempts to alter the constitution of honduras for purely selfish reasons. latin american dahr really sick and tired of presidents violating the rule of law to ensure their own presidencies in perpetuity. article to 39 of the honduran constitution explicitly says and i quote, no citizen who has already served as head of the executive branch can be president or vice president in more over the constitution makes clear that anyone who tries to alter the term limits of the office of the president is guilty of treason. the honduran supreme court has stated that the military acted on its orders and the honduran

congress overwhelmingly passed a decree removing presidents zelaya from office and replacing him with the president of the congress. the military has not retain power. upcoming presidential elections continue to move forward on schedule. finally, the service of the argument is what happened in honduras was a coup but that view in my opinion meltzer-- melts under scrutiny. rather democracy in the rule of law triumphed over mr. olson-- i congratulate the people of ponders for their foresight and for their courage to take action in support of the rule of law. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. smith. mr. green. >> thank you mr. chairman for holding the hearing in coming from texas and our relationship with both mexico and central america and latin america this is very important as we have a

number of honduran americans live in our district ago when president zelaya announced he would hold a referendum asking voters whether they would want and assembly to establish the constitution the situation in honduras started to deteriorate. the issue culminated on june 28 will when military surrounded the residence and flem two cherika which hours before the polls would open. president sub-- zelaya has been denied entry into honduran congress approved the suspending of a number of bill of rights is using writes diet the concern about. while i don't agree with president zelaya, the restoration of democracy is critical for instability and i applaud the organizations like the oas and asd wherefor quickly condemning the honduran military action but i also know that we need to have impartial

negotiation and i'm glad secretary clinton announced former president arias from custer rica will be that mediator, and have democracy restored and like my colleagues on both sides, we see that in our administration and our hemisphere they returned to the strong manahan military government in usurping the constitutional authority whether it be in honduras or other parts of the hemisphere including venezuela and i would hope that we would see our country providing the leadership for democracy and not necessarily just for whoever happens to have a strong power at that time and i yield back my time. >> thank you mr. green. mr. burton, a former ranking member and chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman. first of all, i talked to some people at the state department yesterday, and they told me that they wanted to give the central

american immigration headed by mr. arias a chance to resolve this by getting all the facts and i think the facts are now clear of course but nevertheless they wanted to give him time and that was the reason they said they did not want to appear today. i disagree with that. he should be here but nevertheless that was the reason they gave. i would like to reiterate what the ranking member said and i thought i said it extremely well and that is that the arrest warrants was issued by the supreme court then ordered the armed services to arrest mr. zelaya, and in the united states if an arrest warrant is issued, the police go out and arrest them. and they put him in handcuffs and take him to jail. in this particular case, a military was told to do it and they did it, and so when everybody talks about this being a military coup i just don't get it. there was an arrest warrant

issued by the supreme court. the president had violated the constitution and had not paid any attention to anybody that was giving him the proper advice, so i don't see that this was a military coup and with that i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. burton. ms. giffords. >> i'm going to make it brief because i know we will have those soon and we have a distinguished panel here that i think it is important to hear from. >> thank you. mr. fortenberry. >> thank you mr. chairman for convening this hearing to help us come to terms with the developments in honduras and understand the dynamics and potential outcomes of this very seriously the meth crisis unfolding there. i believe it is vitally important to take a deep breath here and simply look at the facts, understand the objective truth about honduras's cybil

democratic constitutions as well as the scale and scope of abuses of power contributed to mr. zelaya. i would also implored to our panel to assess the policy and the judgments made by the administration bus bar in this crisis, the oas as well as other key and regional as well as international players in this situation so that mr. chairman i yield back. >> thank you. mr. paine. >> thank you very much mr. chairman for calling this hearing. i think that as you have indicated i think it is a bad trend when we have people try to alter the constitution of countries where, i mean to extend the terms of office. however by the same token i can't see where anyone can say that if you take somebody out with an army and guns, put them on a plane and as he tries to come back, he left the military

at the airport saying if the company closer we will shoot you down. that is a military something. it is like a duck, you know, so it is a very complicated situation here, and you know, i think that because venezuela was supportive of the president there, it doesn't mean that we should therefore condemned that country. if we start doing that, we will have to look at every country in the world and who they associate with them that certainly wouldn't make any sense so i think it is a complicated situation and i hope that we can get to the bottom of it as previous member mentioned. we have had presidents who didn't take the advice of their attorney general and as a matter of fact mr. peabody, the attorney general was fired by the president back in the nixon

days because he wouldn't give them the judgment that he wanted. i am not saying it was right to do it here nor was it right to do it there, so this is really a complicated situation and i hope we can come up with a solution, but once again in the african union when a country is taken over by the military, that country is suspended from the african union. they do not tolerate because once that happens here it will happen there and have been at the next place and you will have that way to take the president's. >> thank you. mr. bilirakis. >> thank you mr. chairman. this hits home with me because my hundred american constituents are particularly concerned that president zelaya was slowly stripping away the rule of law in honduras. they feared that hondurans would turn away from its democratically elected and

constitutionally based institutions and evolved into hugo chavez type of autocratic state. hi think what is particularly disconcerting for me is the fact that no american official at the u.s. embassy in honduras or the state department has spoken with the current president of honduras. the obama administration has made it a feature of their diplomacy efforts to listen to all sites and it even displayed a willingness to talk with enemies of the united states. and yet the administration has refused to speak with the institutions in honduras like the supreme court, the congress or even the president to fully understand what happened and why mr. zelaya has been removed. i look forward to hearing from the witnesses as to why the administration continues to ignore the will of the contouring people and their rule of law. and what can be done to

facilitate regular order in honduras. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman and i want to welcome our witnesses and just let me say a couple of things very quickly. a few is a coup. a military coup is a military coup and i am disturbed by as talking about beginning to set new standards for what constitutes a military coup. just as i was opposed to the coup d'etat and haiti which the united states enabled then supported under the bush administration, and that is what happened, i don't see how we can continue to allow these coup d'etat's to take place and get away with it, so i say to you today, to the committee and to you, our witnesses that for me and for many of us, a coup is an unacceptable way to resolve any disputes and i am glad that the international community has been

swift and then firm in condemning the military's actions and i too am disappointed that our adminstration is not here today but i am pleased that they are moving forward to try and bring parties together to resolve this and hopefully send out a message that military coup's are an acceptable regardless of the circumstances because i think that we are walking down a slippery slope when we began to set new standards for what we consider military coups. >> thank you. let me have everybody make an opening statement and then the panelist. mr. rohrabacher. >> a few is a coup and what happened in honduras is not a coup. a few is when the military replaces a democratic government with the military leader. what happened in honduras is a victory for democratic government and the rule of law over could deal with some. it was not a coup d'etat but a defeat of a left-wing coup led

by a corrupt elitist who has been implicated in the drug trade. this would be good diao was engaged in an anti-democratic power grab. he was the, his intent was to be a strong man in the mold of castro or chavez or whatever strongman it was, but he was trying to seize power for himself. it was a power grab to give himself that unlimited power. stopping someone like that is a victory for democracy. we don't need latin america sliding back, whether it is a left-wing or right-wing in terms of what it reflects. that should've been left behind a long time ago, and his defeat,

and the defeat of that power grab as i say no matter how it was accomplished, it is a great victory for democracy in central america and latin america in the long run. we all know that. we all know what he was trying to do. we should be happy and applaud him that he would stop from that horrible power grab which would have ended real democracy in his country. >> thank you. mr. delahunt. >> i thank the gentleman and i don't think you can put a shine on a sneaker. i mean, and sense tells you that it is a coup whether it is a military coup, but it certainly was an unconstitutional removal. you know, i am just concerned about not what is happening in this room and this hearing, but the message that is being received all over latin america at this moment in time.

what you are hearing of course is this is about hugo chavez. well, i want my colleagues particularly my friends on the other side of the aisle, to stand with felipe calderon, to stand with alvaro uribe, to stand with the president of chile, to stand with all of the other democratically elected presidents in latin america. to have condemned this, who are trying to pass-- i never realized how many experts we have by the way on the honduran constitution. i mean it is amazing. there must be a class somewhere. i haven't taken it yet so i have to a knowledge my own ignorance but of course it is a coup. who are these people? i don't know who they are. i do know however that the current provisional president attempted the same thing that

president zelaya did in 1985, but it wasn't a peep out of this institution at the time. he attempted to-- of some present and in the '80s by two years according to a report. i find that interesting but that is irrelevant to this. i am sure some of the people are well-intentioned but i did note and i think it is important that, and i haven't heard outrage expressed by anyone, including members on the other side about the statements of the provisional foreign minister whom they had to dump, but let me tell you what he had to say about the president of the united states. ..

testimony to five minutes apiece. you do not have to read your statements if you don't want to. you can ask that they be submitted into the record and they will be as if they had been repeated, and you can just summarize and that might be better. i will leave it up to the

witnesses. let me mention michael schiffer is vice president for policy at the inter-american dialogue. pérez-cadalso is foreign minister and supreme court justice and currently serves as professor of international law at honduras's national university. welcome. join olson as director of the washington office on latin america. welcome. cynthia arnson is director of latin american program at the woodrow wilson international center for scholars. we welcome you. lonnie davis is a personal friend of mine, but partner here representing the honduras chapter of the latin american business council. welcome. and sarah stevens is executive director of the center for democracy and the americas. we welcome you and last but not least of reich is president of reich associates and secretary

of state for western hemisphere affairs. welcome. we will start with mr. shifter. >> thank you free much mr. chairman. i would like to submit my statement for the record. i want to commend you for holding this hearing. the honduras situation poses a critical test for the u.s. government and for the hemisphere. what happened on june 28th in honduras rupture in the space order, space process that i think was properly censored by the united states atmospheric international community. president zelaya has more than his share of blame for provoking the crisis to begin with by dividing the supreme court and the congress and all of the legal procedures that have followed before his ousting. but the forced removal from

honduras was a clear violation of the constitution and basic space norms. having rightly condemned what happened, the main task was to calm the tensions and try to work out a solution. i am not sure opting for a punishing stand so quickly to issue an ultimatum for the return of president zelaya and suspending ponder dress was the wisest course. the attempted on successful return of president zelaya last sunday was particularly counterproductive. as a result all sides became more entrenched in their positions. today this crisis has moved to the face of negotiation on to president arias. this is encouraging but caution is in order. the first day showed this is going to be difficult and may take time to work out. there's tremendous bitterness and distrust between the two parties.

still, one can imagine alliance of the formula that will hopefully be agreed to. it is crucial conditions at honduras be fair and credible elections now scheduled for the end of november. it is welcome that the united states is discreetly supporting this initiative announced by secretary of state went in last tuesday. the honduras crisis has post to difficult challenges for the united states. the first concerns had a deal with the interruption of space process in the region balancing legality and legitimacy against maintaining social peace and governability on the ground in honduras. the second challenge involves finding an effective multilateral approach that engages with latin american partners while also being active in helping shape a favorable outcome. the idea is to try to resist the temptations to impose a solution or dictate a solution but

alternatively not to withdraw and be passive either. in general i think the obama administration struck the right balance of both challenges. it was important to bear in mind from the beginning how decisions that followed principal stand of the coup, the suspension of ponder dysphoric sable would either exacerbate or diminish the polarization which is after all the root cause of the crisis. this is a case for combining principal with pragmatism. the u.s. has now seen as an important and honest broker in the region. as i said the oas took the right stamp on the crisis but might have waited and explore other measures before resorting to such confrontational response which did not work and in fact seemed to only have hardened positions on all sides. the oas might have also tried to anticipate and prevent the heated situation before it reached a boiling point. alert mechanisms are difficult and sensitive questions about

sovereignty. but this is an essential function appropriate for regional body at the oas. head-on collision of honduras had been building for some time and an average of have been made to diffuse the mounting tensions. looking ahead even though president arias is taking speed of the oas should sort the efforts to reach a compromise and honduras. with this crisis has done is bring the focus on the question of double standards and hypocrisy applied to different situations in latin america. it's not that the oas shouldn't have reacted to the situation but it should have reacted to others. the oas has been too passive and silent dealing with ruptures in the space order and in other situations. there needs to be a way to focus on improving the inter-american democratic charter and the way it is applied and implemented in latin america.

one idea is to not restrict the use of the charter to the executive branch the extent to other branches of government and opposition. this could have worked in the honduras case to head off the venture will too. unfortunately public reps and defiance of space norms and institutions are too common in latin america so the charter and member oas governments need to take a disturbing tendency in to account. finally it would be surprising if the united states wouldn't have to deal with similar situations in latin america in the future. the region is on settled at least several parts of the region and i hope this case shows the wisdom of working in concert with regional partners to seek solutions that reflect common sense and pragmatism but are anchored in the rule of law. i look forward to questions. thank you. >> the gentleman's time is expired. mr. pérez-cadalso.

>> pull the microphone a little closer. >> chairman engel, ranking member mac and the other distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me today. i will not provide a summary of my prepared statement which i request to be included in its entirety in the record. my name is guillermo pérez-cadalso. i served as foreign affairs as the supreme court justice and as the president of the national university of honduras. today however i come before you with a title of concern number and citizen and not as a government representative. i have spent this week as part of an ad hoc by a first delegation of other concerned honduran citizens visiting with many members of congress.

while we have made progress in creating greater understanding of the history and context of what has happened in my country i want to share with you some facts and observations that have been lost or confused in the intense media coverage. one, the military is not in charge of honduras. the constitutional order of honduras remains intact. our government continues to be led by a civilian executive branch, a duly elected congress and our judicial branch guided by our 1982 constitution and the rule of law. indeed, it was the proper application of the constitution and presidential succession that initiated the recent events in honduras. number two, many confused the

timing of key defense. for example, mr. zelaya was charged with crimes against form of government treason, abuse of authority and user a patient of power and supreme court ordered his arrest before he was taken out of the country. number three, they're has been a failure to separate the issue of mr. zelaya's removal from the country versus his proper t-mobile from the president's office according to the constitution and as a result of the very serious criminal charges against him. i can only speculate as to what the military did and why. taking mr. zelaya out of the country could have been the result of a terrible dilemma. it is possible the military which was properly ordered to arrest mr. zelaya by the honduran supreme court to uphold the constitution thought it would be more prudent to take

him out of the country rather of and hold him in custody in honduras and risk greater civil unrest and violence. after all, the military faced a person who had better abused his stature in using the threat of violence to store and air force base. number four, they're has been a great misunderstanding and that the extent of support for mr. zelaya. there is a broad consensus in honduras mr. zelaya violated the law and our constitution. the honduran supreme court voted 15-0 that he broke the law. the national congress voted 103 kuhl 24 out of 128 that he broke below all including every member of congress from his own party. the attorney general, the supreme electoral council and the human rights commission are all agreed that mr. zelaya broke the law. others to agree include four out

of five of the political parties representing more than 90% of the conference. including mr. zelaya's own party. many labor unions, the private sector, and the catholic and evangelical and other protestant churches. meanwhile, tens of thousands of hondurans have marched for peace and democracy and to express support for the constitutional succession including more than 50,000 people on joy third alone. before concluding here are several faults and hopes for the future. first, the facilitation of the mediation by president is welcomed and we praise secretary of state hillary clinton's in dorset of the dialogue process which would work toward a phased solution that includes fact finding. we also appreciate that the u.s. government joined last week with other governments in the organization of american states and advising mr. zelaya that it wasn't the right time to travel

back to honduras. second, i believe that the oas didn't live up to the spirit of its charter in this instance. it was too quick to accuse, too soon to judge and too eager to condemn. the oas could have acted to prevent the situation but sadly stood silent in the face of months of misconduct by mr. zelaya. after the constitutional succession occurred, the o.a.s. did not engage in collaborative fact-finding and if it had done so, the burden to host the dialogue would not have fallen on president arias. third, we hope that the interim government earnest efforts to engage in dialogue are proof enough that the restrictions and credit flows from international financial institutions should be lifted and that bilateral and multilateral cooperation in eight programs should continue. these restrictions only exacerbate the effect of the

international economic crisis on the honduras and the honduran poor and shortchange u.s. on work and efforts to combat drug trafficking and organized crime. finally, the dialogue can succeed if both sides to refrain from personal, emotional reactions and stick to constructive discussions about the issues. each side can find common ground and solutions if there is a willingness to act in good faith in the higher interest of our country. thank you, and i will gladly take your questions. >> thank you. ms. olson. >> thank you mr. chairman for the invitation to speak today and i would request my written statement be submitted for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> thank you. i must say i have been paid to watch the conflict playing out and honduras the past few weeks. it is a country i love and i spent the formative years of my professional life. i'm not to going to spend much

time talking about the fact of what happened. as there will be a lot of that. i would like to make love observations. one, it isn't only the u.s. who identified this as a coup. every country in the hemisphere has identified this as a coup so it's not something we are standing alone on. second, it seems like there was plenty violating of the law went around. on all sides. and those are important issues but again, i think there was plenty of it happening. also back to the to issue for the second. when the military takes the president and his jammies and put them on a flight out of the country that's a coup. if it walks like a duck and talks like a dock at the dock. let me also say a few things about what the situation is not. it's not, it's not about and no

matter how much president chavez might want it to be or his opponents might want it to be it's not about venezuela. it's also not about liking zelaya or how popular he is. if that were the standard of former president of peru never would have made it to the end of his term after his approval rating bottomed out at about 7%. while the immediate crisis is around zelaya's concern there's more fundamental ongoing political crisis in honduras. a crisis in the party system. many poor people don't bother to vote. during the choice between parties as meaningless. over the last 20 years of space transitions they have done little to address the political and economic marginal station experienced by of hondurans. i would like to say a few things about the administration's handling of the situation. i think that it was good. it was swift to defend -- it was swift to condemn the coup.

a decision to use the oas and its diplomatic efforts to address the conflict was a welcome change from our historic interventions in latin america which are well remembered in the region. the administration had talked about changing the u.s. government's would suffer and die and working through multilateral institutions and in this case i think they walked the walk. that said the days following the coup were riddled with mixed messages from the state department about whether a coup had actually occurred. i am not sure if the state department lawyers have yet made the determination. the issue seems to have been the administration wanted to use aid as leverage to get the two sides to the table, and noble goal. but law is clear u.s. aid to a government must be suspended if there is to. if the military sending a president into exile in his pajamas doesn't qualify then what does?

i want to leave you with one quote from a high fee state department press briefing i was following the past two weeks, and the responses about this issue and section 7008, the coup language and for assistance act, their statements were incredibly convoluted. on the sixth of this month, the press spokesman at the state department had this to say. we are suspending as a matter of as a policy matter assistance programs we would be legally required to terminate if the events and honduras were found to have triggered section 7008. as congress moves forward to rewrite foreign assistance act i would suggest you consider further clarify and section 7008, the coup plotters. defining what should be suspended and process by which the suspension is determined. i would also suggest making it clear military assistance provided through the defense department and all through the foreign assistance act should be suspended as well.

being pushy washy about applying 7,008 for well over a week after the coup i think's it's a bad precedent. on the role of the oas, generally the oas is a fairly easy sport. but it is -- this is the kind of situation that makes clear the need for the oas. the immediate aftermath of the to no other body could have dealt with this crisis. a unilateral intervention on the part of the united states or say venezuela would have been disastrous. the fact that governments and of all political stripes were unified in the condemnation of a coup and suspension of honduras from the o.a.s. did two things. made clear no matter how many people dislike the president comes are no longer accepted in the region and it also helped push the crisis towards mediation. another critical role the away as played the last week was

monitoring human rights. in american fashion on human rights followed up on reports of violence compiled detailed lists were missing and monitored restrictions on freedom of press and association. in conclusion, there is a mediation process now in place and i think we should all be supportive of president arias as the process moves forward. and there can be opportunity increases. the question is will the end result of the mediation b a limping along of democracy until the next election or real introspection on hillsides about the more fundamental crisis of honduran democracy and existing political parties. thank you. >> thank you. dr. arnson. >> thank you very much. >> political loser. >> for this invitation. i would also like to ask my remarks be submitted for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> i welcome the subcommittee's

focus on central america, a continuation of the historic role the subcommittee played during the central american war in the 1980's and subsequent resolution in the 1990's. as the opening statements demonstrate, mostly by the members of the subcommittee as well as members of this panel, every crisis and every conflict reflects deeply contrasting narrative's regarding relevant facts. but i will attempt to do in the short time i have is not so much to rehash those facts but perhaps to provide a broader context for understanding these disparate realities. the prices of government reflected in the coup against president zelaya has both proximate and deeper antecedence. the proximate cause as we have heard several times this morning was zelaya's insistence that the honduran conagra's as well as a supreme court considered

unconstitutional. the endgame of the referendum would have been to permit changing the constitution for zelaya to extend his term and eventually one supposes to convene a constituent assembly to draft a constitution. should these changes have taken place honduras would indeed have embarked on a path similar to those taken in venezuela, bolivia, ecuador and to lesser extent or earlier and nicaragua where each elected presidents have spearheaded process these of constitutional reform that a road checks and balances, strengthened the power of the executive branch and create alternative participatory mechanisms for the exercise of so-called popular democracy. apart from the immediate sequence of events the honduran crisis has deeper roots. they can be found precisely in the weaknesses and limitations that make the populace temptation in latin america not only attractive but also

feasible. the weakness of the ponder and democratic institutions, the inadequacy of mechanisms of representation and the failure of ponder's economic growth and international insertion in the last several years to overcome the country's endemic poverty and equality. the coup and the military role in throwing zelaya out of the country reflect the honduran political system's inherent weakness in the absence of mechanisms and a legal framework to resolve political conflict through political means. overcoming this basic crisis of governance must be in a central feature of any long-term and enduring solution to the current and highly unstable and pass. the acceptance of president arias as a meter is extremely positive even though the events of the last few days have shown that this will not be an easy

mediation. president arias has brought credibility in the region as well as world recognized experience and brokering peace. and i think it is worth mentioning and underscoring the central american peace plan he devised in the 1980's link to the end of civil war to an internal space reforms as an essential ingredient of peace. the obama administration i believe has acted appropriately and even add broadly in response to the crisis. they have honored their commitments at the summit of the americas to work in partnership and seek multilateral solutions to regional problems. the support for the efforts of the oas and now for president arias -- partnership over unilaterally. i also believe that the obama administration has the appropriately restrained and prudent with respect to the elimination of u.s. economic aid

in response to the coup. the example of haiti should stand as a sober reminder of the harsh economic -- the consequences that harsh economic sanctions against a desperately poor country can have. i'd like to conclude by saying the ponder increases should serve as a wake-up call to the extent that it might still be needed the despite huge advances in electoral democracy in latin america over the last two decades and scope of central conclusion remain deeply flawed and at times fundamentally compromised. supporting the capacity of space institutions and foster and strategies for inclusive, inclusion regrowth remain the central challenges even more urgent at a time of economic hardship and reversal. thank you. >> thank you. mr. davis? >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member mac.

i would first like to say that it is a pleasure to be here in the presence of friends on both sides of the aisle. i see congressman delahunt who i knew before his hair was gray and is a great public servant and i see congressman dan burton who at some point in my past career i was an adversary but also a friendly, always civil, and of course my friend chris smith, who i consider a very close personal friend and chairman engel and i happen to be personal friends. and the reason i wanted to start that way is that this issue calls for bipartisanship, calls for civility and calls for dialogue. and i represent a client so i am not speaking for myself. there are days on television when i was speaking for myself

but i am speaking on behalf of the honduran council and i would like justice pérez-cadalso all i am here to talk about solutions as our great president reminds us looking forward rather than looking backward. and i believe chairman engel and ranking member mac have essential agreement on to things. one is mr. zelaya violated the law. there is no doubt, facts are facts well. with all due respect to my panelist know, there wasn't a lot of lawbreaking going on. supreme court voted 15-0 that mr. zelaya broke the law. that included eight members of his political party elected justices. the congress, 124-for inclusion of members of his political party voted he violated the law. his own attorney general, the human rights commissioner that is as independent of the government as the gao has

supported the finding that he had to be removed from office because he violated the constitution with a self executing calls that says if you try to extend your term you are automatically removed from the presidency. now having said that, my clients believe looking back with the wisdom of hindsight it could have been done differently. that night that the army decided to wis can out of the country and i am not afraid to say with the wisdom of hindsight it probably should have been done differently. as long as those of you, and i know congressman delahunt shares that view are also willing to share the distaste for a president that regarded himself as above call in every institution in honduran society from the church to civil organizations to business organizations to the liberal party to the national party to the supreme court and congress

every institution found this president as putting himself above the wall. if both facts are stated by my friends on the democratic side where i am affiliated and my friends on the republican side we can then look forward as president of, and secretary clinton wants us to do and not argue about past history. so now let's look for work together. secretary clinton, secretary clinton did a great service turning to president arias, were priced winner and say let's have dialogue and find a solution. one that is going to take time that doesn't involve immediately parachuting mr. zelaya back into honduras. one that recognizes that there is a compromise necessary on all sides. and my client favors such a compromise. and that is about dialogue. and finally, whatever the

solution cannot be imposed by the oas, the united states by my friends who are democrats and my friends who are republicans. it has to be a hunter and solutions. right now every institution in honduras and every public opinion poll taken supports this civilian government. there is no military running this government. supports the civilian government but also wants a peaceful solution. but it has got to be a honduran solution between the leaders of honduras as well as mr. zelaya and under president arias and under secretary clinton i see no better way than dialogue and ultimately a peaceful solution. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. ms. stevens?

>> does that work okay? >> yes. you can pull it closer if that might be easier for you. what ever is easier for you. >> thank you, chairman engel and members for holding this hearing on the crisis in honduras today. i would like to begin by expressing my sympathies to the people of honduras for the violence and political turmoil they have experienced this jan 28. it is understandable and perhaps inevitable that there crisis has triggered a larger debate about policy and politics, democracy. but neither their humanity or their dignity should be forgotten as we discussed the implications of the coup for all of us inside and outside honduras. in fact their interests and hours are in alignment. in that context let me make three basic points. first, i believe the goal of our policy and diplomacy should be resolving this crisis in a matter that restores the

constitutional order to honduras and returns president zelaya to office. second, we need to stand with the region and singing loudly and clearly that military coups cannot be regarded ever again as acceptable alternative to democracy. third, we need to understand that there is a principal debate occurring in the americas about space institutions and the constitution which protect them. at times some nations will make choices through space means that may disturb and discomfort us deeply but our long-term interest in democracy and stability in the western hemisphere can only be vindicated by our boards and actions we are seen as respecting rather than undermining their sovereignty and decisions. what we a disagree about some of these issues i would hope we could speak with one face on whether it is appropriate for military force to be used against the presidency of zelaya. after all the top legal at pfizer for the honduran armed forces similarly a conagra's man

who served as mr. zelaya's defense ministry and resigned from his position just days before the coup because he believed mr. zelaya was breaking the law wrote to congress this week that president zelaya's ouster was a legal and he would refuse to take his legislative seat on till mr. zelaya was reinstated. this drives home the most important theme of the recent events in honduras regardless of ideology or one's opinion of president zelaya's behavior prior to the coup, can't we say this with clerical blincoe coups or wrong. they are undemocratic and they can't the hands of everyone who touches them. when violence becomes a substitute for politics and everything falls apart. that has been the sad story in many places across latin america and that is why so many people in the region are as proud as they are today for having tried to put that history behind them. s president less it recently what we have achieved these

years was in truth the result of the death of many people, many young people who decided to take up arms to bring down authoritarian regimes in chile, argentina, r cui, brazil, and almost all countries. they died and we are doing with the dreamed of doing and we have won this the space means. none of us all to see the progress rollback which is why being clear about why this is unacceptable is so important to the region and national interest. against this backdrop it is extremely important president obama has taken the position from the inception of the crisis but reversing the to and returning president zelaya political and diplomatic race for the united states. as he said three days ago during his trip to russia and america cannot and should not seek to impose any system of government on any other country even as we meet here today america supports now the restoration of the

democratically elected president of honduras even though he has strongly opposed american policies. against the expectations of some in the region the united states has reacted with prudence to these events and that strengthens us and our long-term interest in the western hemisphere. the crisis in honduras came at a particularly crucial moment. there are debates taking place in latin america about all of the state and will democracy should do when the institutions fail to deliver this is hardly a new phenomena. governments of the ideological have written for decades, for centuries. this isn't a question and some would have simply of left versus right. colombia is discussing right now whether president uribe will have the chance to run for a third term or is only a debate about centralizing power in the executive. nations do this to improve governance to an exclusion and open up opportunity. as jennifer mac way of the carter center pondered recently

does democracy allow for its own free will living within the rules of the game? there are real and legitimate questions about when that does get out hand but we have to be careful in light of the history about how and when we ask those questions. these are serious issues and we place a lot at risk if we treat them lightly. we should support please is not only when we like the trees is people are making but also when they use elections rather than violence to make the choices for themselves. even when we disagree with the outcome. we share a common border with the region and confront a common set of problems. disease, criminality and security, environmental challenges and proliferation. none can be solved without us being good partners, not by imposing but by listening and operating multilaterally. if we identify with the space aspirations, our country would be much more successful in the region moving forward. it is that interest and those concerns which i believe are at stake in the crisis in honduras

today. thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. reich? >> mr. chairman, members of the committee i appreciate this opportunity to speak with you and i would like to submit my remarks for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> the battle for control for honduras is mollyann out a small nation. what happens in honduras me one day be seen as either the high water mark of hugo chavez attempt to undermine democracy in this hemisphere or a green light to the continuing spread of the authoritarian under of democracy. the removal of president zelaya from office to weeks ago has been referred to mainly outside of honduras as an attack on democracy. in contrast, prominent honduran tourists and scholars or not members of the government described in the opposite fashion. as a legal and defensible measure of to coequal branches of the honduran government against the autocratic intent of the executive. many conference insisted the

actions save democracy by preventing zelaya from establishing the kind 21st century socialism that is being established in countries like latin america under something called the elbe, alliance invented by castro and financed by chavez. we must find the bipartisan way to defend the true democrats in honduras. i respectfully suggest to the schogol is one way to do so may be to ask the elected representatives of people honduras their congress why they voted i had 125 - 3, but now here it is possibly 124 - 4. e3 the equivalent of that vote in this house of representatives would have been about 415 to 11 with a few extensions. you our representatives in congress more than anyone know that by nearly all elected members of the nation's conagra's give such bipartisan support to such a momentous measure there must be an unusual reason and in honduras the

reason most genuine fear for the future of the country. i admit i am not an expert on honduran law. i would also point out however most in this country and other countries who have rushed to condemn the zelaya removal or equally unqualified to judge. how can the so-called space community allow cuba, venezuela and other countries that have either destroyed self-rule or are in the process of doing so to determine the standards of democracy in the region? elbe has a consistent modus operandi so the foundations of spree rule such as the election and he gained power, concentrated in the hands of the executive, steadily diminished civil liberties and then change the rules and even the definitions of democracy to remain in power indefinitely through any means necessary including force. in my opinion what took place in honduras to 28 when the military remote zelaya on order of

supreme court should have been handled differently. as an american i would have liked to have seen zelaya's charges better publicized in advance of the arrest to have seen civilian authorities and all military forces to arrest zelaya. i wouldn't have expelled him from the country but would have detained him and given the opportunity to defend his actions like any other accused felon. but i am not a home durham. i didn't feel threatened by zelaya's increasing authoritarianism as did the honduran congress for example. i did not fear the undermining of my country's space institutions by zelaya as did the honduran supreme court. i didn't know the extent of interference by venezuelan, cuban and other foreigners in the internal affairs of my country as did the honduran armed forces. had i been a honduran living peacefully in the united states as most in this room to i would have heard the exceptional denunciation of the catholic church and protestant churches protesting zelaya's abuses of power. at the same time, however, one

doesn't have to be pondering to understand the anger of the average citizen that the documented and repeated instances of gross dishonesty by zelaya, his family and members of his cabinet. i cannot excuse the zeal with which the military broken to zelaya's house but it may be explained by zelaya's alito miss use of the police and military to take over private property is, can i access to rightful owners and thus benefit his extended family. to use the forces of the wall to commit unlawful acts is immoral and may also explain the condemnation of zelaya. commendably the liquid funds are of the honduran armed forces as has been mentioned admitted law was broken and expelling zelaya. and action the armed forces justified his taken to prevent violence when was the last time the legal the adviser of chavez or castro's armed forces, assuming the even have such position admitted criminal error in handling a case? i will submit the balance of my

remarks for the record, mr. chairman. but in conclusion let me say it's always an honor for me to be asked to testify before the u.s. congress because i've never taken the freedom of this country afforded me as for granted. i am an immigrant, to an american who lived under to dictatorships in his native country than salles eight enslaved by communism. i'm privileged to serve the government in and out of uniform over 15 years. i fervently exercise my civil rights because i once lost those rights and know how precious they are. i urge this congress not to condemn hondurans were defending theirs. even if we may not approve of the one mistake which the military have already confessed. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. let me say that we can see that hour very distinguished panelists and excellent testimony composed of a wide range of views on the subject,

and i think that we have heard a lot of good points from a lot of different people. for me, i think the question that i would like to concentrate on is where do we go from here? obviously there is negotiations going on with mr. arias and united states as was mentioned has been instrumental in putting together those discussions. secateurs clinton has been very helpful in doing this. if i could close my eyes and say well, what kind of possible solution or compromise can come out of these negotiations on a would bet the most probable thing to come out would be a

return to power of mr. zelaya, to finish out his term, which i believe is four more months. and then have a new election as was scheduled in honduras and november. and election where mr. zelaya would be barred from running for a second term as was mentioned and has been stated by the honduran constitution. i would bet the house that would be the solution that would come out. i would like anyone's comments on that. would that be a viable compromise and is it something that you think would be likely to come out of these discussions? anybody want to try? mr. davis? >> mr. chairman, the first thing i would like to say is i would rather not offer advice to the parties as how to solve this like an offer some principles that are in alignment with what

you just said and what my clients believe. the one principle most important is the rule of law needs to be upheld. so any solution that involves the return of mr. zelaya if that is the choice -- >> mr. davis, would you just hold for en minute? i notice in the audience there are some signs and i would ask the people to put them down because i think it is inappropriate. thank you very much. mr. davis? >> so, and a line with most of the remarks here on both sides of the aisle and yours, mr. chairman, there are two principles i certainly believe that mr. zelaya and president arias are aimed at discussing. one is that delivers law is very important. mr. zelaya needs to acknowledge that and certainly needs to acknowledge that the supreme court, his own party in the congress and all the other institutions have found him to have violated bill law and he has to be held accountable.

as to the people who may have violated law by sending him out of the country in the middle of the night. so there may be a solution that is equal handed that out for getting both of those violations in return for certain commitments. the principle is the rules of law. the second principle is democracy and security that goes with the democracy and the elections as you mentioned must take place. and their must be a new president. someone from this party is running have someone from the opposition national party and three other parties are running. so those two principles, the rule of law, and some agreement on how the rule of law is to be applied equally, and democracy and security. i believe president arias can bring the two together to achieve the principles. >> thank you. dr. arnson, i noticed you had your hand up.

>> once again i feed the interpretation of what constitutes illegal solution in honduras is a contest to dish -- issue. i would share their reluctance to define as a u.s. citizen how honduran politicians and how the honduran public should resolve this crisis, but i frankly find it in a probable that a resolution to the crisis could be found that does not include president zelaya's return to honduras. at the same time what he attempted to do that the supreme court and congress found him in violation of the constitution should not be allowed to take place. i think it might be entirely reasonable to prevent deepening polarization between now and the month of november to attempt to move up those elections and make sure that they are fully

observed not only at the time of the ballot, but before and in the period afterwards to guarantee that the political process goes forward in an open and space fashion without intimidation, without violence. i would think that there may be a role for an international observer under the auspices of the oas or the united nations to establish itself in honduras as an international mechanism to help the hondurans overcome polarization. i believe the country is deeply divided probably equally in favor and against president zelaya. i think that i agree with what was said earlier. i think a majority of hondurans, not majority but a plurality opposed the way in which he was removed. and i hope that what mr. davis has described as the need to

look forward and not to become entrenched in the position and principles articulated up until now will be possible because adherence to those deeply entrenched positions will lead to a continued stalemate and bicyclist needed is a way for both sides to be flexible in order to break this impasse. >> i think that one of the things i hear again people are giving president zelaya's removal from power was constitutionally appropriate. the troubling thing and even people in the panel who are saying that president zelaya violated the law can anybody tell me where in the honduran constitution gives the military there right to remove a president from power at gunpoint and whisked him out of the country? i don't think that anyone differs with me. i don't think that there is anything in the honduran constitution the would give the military that power.

i see people nodding their heads. so i think that that is something that is troubling but i do think that the united states can play and should play a very positive role in trying to mediate these results. mr. mack. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you know, first of all i appreciate the testimony from everyone. it's such an important hearing because what we are trying to get our arms around is democracy in latin america. and not all constitutions are written the same. but it is clear and you don't have to be an expert as someone mentioned on the -- one of my

colleagues mentioned earlier, to understand the hungarian constitution. you just have to read it. and it's clear in article 239 in the constitution of honduras that by the order of the supreme court, which we have which we can read which says to the rest of the president that of the military was just acting out the constitutional responsibility passed to them by the supreme court. it's not that hard to figure out. you don't have to be a scholar. you just have to read. this idea that this is a coup is so disturbing to me. that you could say with a straight face after hearing the testimony from the panelists and

the members that appear the military is not in charge of honduras. therefore you cannot have -- it cannot be a military coup. the military acted on the rule, on the order of the supreme court. so i think we need -- someone needs a paradigm shift. people need to understand and stop calling this a coup. the negotiations going on right now at the base of that that this is a coup is going to be difficult to get to a solution that follows the constitution of honduras, and anything other than something that follows the will of all in the constitution of honduras said the portable president.

mr. davis, i was very interested in your testimony and i understand this is on behalf of your client so i want to ask you this: does your client believe that this was a military coup? >> my client wants me to answer that based on the fact and the facts are there is no military person in charge of this government. the government is now a de fact being run by the successor under the constitution the president and the congress, so the word military would be inappropriate as far as my clients are concerned. on the other hand i think my clients would agree with the chairman that there is nothing in the constitution that allows somebody shipped out of the country as was done so the negative side isn't about his removal was president, the article to 30 mine as you said is expressly stated an

automatic, he automatically loses office under the wording of the constitution and my colleagues that talk about democracy seem to want it more a constitution adopted after military governments in honduras rule that 1982 and that constitution is a sacrosanct to hondurans as ours so the constitution said he had to be removed. the supreme court 15 to zero agreed and so did all the members of his party. but the issue of whether he should have been whisked away in the dead of night by the army is what is troubling and it is not an easy issue to dismiss and from my client standpoint they are troubled about that and i can only say that what i offer donner says the wisdom of hindsight statement i made. it should have been done differently but remember the context the president of honduras lead a mob. the president himself you can see it on youtube led the mob that overtook the army of guards into the barracks to see the

ballots that have been shipped in by mr. chavez. now that's just the fact and the atmosphere was fearful of physical safety and it was that context i believe the wisdom of hindsight something that was done that should have been done differently. >> thank you mr. davis and i agree with that. i agree with your statements. i would say this. if the supreme court, the converse, the business groups, the churches, if all of these groups came together to say that the removal of the president was the right thing to do certainly they could also come together to say we don't think he should have been flown out of the country and hondurans could have figured out the right course to make sure that didn't happen again that the constitution was

followed, rule of law was followed but to also make the statement that in the future they won't be flown out of the country. >> thank you. your time is expired. mr. meeks? >> thank you. i want to thank all the witnesses for being here. was a very important hearing it gives a lot of food for thought and i don't want to jump ahead of ourselves because i do believe that what president arias is doing and sometimes triune to look at the present whether the glass is half full or half empty some people are saying that democracy throughout the south and central iraq cut is being threatened. well, democracy in the ponder this may be that the reaction of the country's in central and south america who are upset about what has taken place which caused them to sit down and try to work together to resolve this so that we do not turn back the

hands of time shows we still have come a long way, shows that still folks even in the region want to work together to make sure that democracy is ranked and show those democracies would soon meet those who have not had for such a long period of tire because the bottom line are still those poor people in honduras one of the poorest nations on the hemisphere no matter what the system of government has never received anything. so the hope is we'll learn something and move forward, and i think that also what is different here and one of the things the prior administration had been criticized and was looked at the wrong way was acting unilaterally. i think the fact that this current administration acted in a multilateral situation with other nations with concern in the region is a positive step forward to try to make sure the

democracy does remain and prevails throughout this hemisphere but especially throughout the world. now, i do have -- and i would like to ask some questions that i don't know -- just to get your opinion on this scenario because i'm concerned about the poor people and also concerned because you see some human rights groups talk about the individuals out there demonstrating with the interim government and there have been things going on with them but we have this site as far as the united states is concerned to suspend all foreign aid to honduras including the millennium challenge account and other things. i am concerned about the poor getting hurt more. i don't know. i would like to hear your opinion with the or not we should continue the suspension or whether we should do something differently so that we can make sure that boe was who are caught in the middle, the poorest of the war are not hurt.

what do you think we should do as the united states in that regard? i would like to hear that. ms. olson? ..

the and, for me the issue is not right now this the military run the country. the question of a coup is not who is running the question entirely at this moment. the question is, what is the president legally to posen actually the 7,008 language talks about a military coup or decrease so it sees the true concept beyond just the military taking over. so, the other thing is if you are going to talk legality and illegality if you illegally removed the president from the country, then are the people taking over in some ways violating the law as well so that was my point about, seems like there's a lot of things that have questionable legal-- >> i agree, so that is why use the hypothetical in mike earlier statement that have not had the process taking place-- i have

got 30 seconds. you know that someone could have said president nixon was violating the law to take a lot of the country but generally if you violate the law you have the rule to come in and arrest someone, place them under arrest and therefore there's a proceeding that takes place so one could be found guilty or innocent, and that seems to be to meet more of a democratic and fair way to go. it did not take place here so by my estimation a big difference. >> the gentleman's time has expired, mr. mccaul. >> thank you chairman. i think we ever reach some consensus but not entirely. clearly, the president violated the constitution. the supreme court held that he was acting against the established form of government. we have been ordered here to the military to arrest him. he was ordered to be, he was found to be in treason against

his own country, of the 'tis authority and usurp his power. as mr. davis pointed out very eloquently in article ccxxxix self executes once that is violated, which it was in this case, he is out of power. he is no longer the president of honduras. i think that the real dilemma here is how was this order implemented and how did the military response to this order to arrest him? and does the definition of a rest include deporting him to another country? i know there were some concerns certainly when we have the intervention of hugo chavez into the process and the intervention of these balances from venezuela, tremendous concern of the safety and the danger that is posed by keeping him in honduras. we have been throwing up around the word military coup pretty loosely but as mr. meeks points

out, it is actually very important because under the, under this appropriations act that we passed it that is the son of-- defined as military coup than the funding is cut off to honduras by the united states congress. so, i think the definition, and i think again this is then thrown around very loosely, but the idea you know that there was a violation of the constitution. the supreme court held so, called for the arrest, article ccxxxix self executes. he is now a private citizen. the real issue with him lies with the remedy we can provide from this point going forward but he is no longer the president under the rule of law in honduras and under their constitution. so, former supreme court justice guillermo perez-cadalso at want to call upon you and perhaps mr. davis as well to help us and

the administration in terms of whether you define this as a military coup. >> thank you congressmen. back in the '60s and '70s, latin american was full of coup d'etat i, myself, lived through many of them. but, reading any text of political science, one finds that the coup d'etat's have some characteristics. one, the military seized power and they take power or they do a civic military coup d'etat. second, they abolish the other powers or the branches of

government. certainly congress and sometimes even the judiciary. third, the constitution is abolished or is subject to whatever the military regime wants. fourth, usually there is a bloodbath that occurs with the takeover of the military. in this case, we have a very typical situation. one, the military are not in power. there is a civilian ruling the country, the military have returned to the barracks. second, the three branches of government are functioning. the congress that was elected four years ago with president zelaya, the judiciary with its

15 members and the branch of government, executive branch of government that was elected by congress in this case, 124 votes out of 128. the constitution is fully in charge. nobody has questioned the constitution and fortunately for us hondurans there was no bloodshed at the moment that mr. zelaya was arrested. >> the gentleman's time has expired and as you have heard we have just been called for a vote so i am going to try and see if we can finish before the actual vote takes place. i am going to ask my colleagues that they could limit themselves with their questions for about two minutes. let me just say thank you for that testimony as well. mr. green.

>> i'm going to try to squeeze two questions in two minutes. first of all, the deep concern over executive decree about coming from the authorities in honduras, restricting personal liberty and allowing detention of 24 hours, freedom association and right of assembly as well as freedom to enter and remain in the territory of honduras. is that still in effect? or, does that have any concern like it does i think with a lot of members in a national emergency that was created in continuing? ms. olson? >> my understanding is that the suspension of liberties during certain hours of the day, which was put forward, has been reduced over the past couple of days. i did not check yesterday's so i am not sure. we have been concerned about it in one of the big things we have been concerned about and what of

the things that is affected things is media. pretty much all of the opposition or media were taken off the air and off the air and they weren't showing up in print so you might end up with a real kind of one-sided view of what was going on. >> actually congressman, that is not a correct statement. would have been very briefly while the media is operating as we speak. there is a vociferous protest on both sides. democracy is forcing. i do agree that the curfews are the only thing in place that are nighttime curfews but as to any civil liberties as far as i know from the distance the answer is democracy in some of these are still foresting. >> let maggette my other question in quickly. the changing constitutions in power in the western hemisphere and i know there are other countries, colombia, venezuela, bolivia, ecuador, honduras. it is that fairly common?

it seems like in colombia we hear it from people who are mostly aligned with president chavez and venezuela. is that it generally correct statement? >> extend the terms of office by public referendum. >> mr. green, as i commented in my testimony that pattern of certain elected leaders coming in with the election has shown us did ten years ago as zelaya did four years ago, as morales of bolivia. >> frankly-- president uribe did the same thing i believe in colombia. >> he has not done that. he has presented that. he has not decided yet whether he is going to run. the constitution was changed in colombia, that is correct, to allow a second term. in my personal opinion, i am not a colombian so i did not vote in

that one. i don't think that is good. i don't think it is good for colombia anymore than it is good for honduras or that it has been good for the livia or ecuador and based on 47 years of working in latin america, where some countries for example like mexico have made it a part of the constitution. there is no re-election because they know unfortunately for some reason, cultural reasons are political once people get into power they don't want to give up. >> mr. smith. >> thank you. is the crisis in honduras is heating up i was in belarus meeting with president-- he was the man he was elected, dissolved his parliament in rewrote the constitution to allow him to be president for life. i remember thinking, not again, not again and it almost happened in honduras. my question is, zelaya has been accused of several very serious

crimes including treason, abuse of authority, use a reputation of power. the supreme court has voted unanimously as everyone has said here all the democratically elected institutions of that government are trying to uphold the rule of law. as dr. arias grapples with this whole issue of what to do, it seems to be one of the top questions as to be, should zelaya be prosecuted? i don't know how those kinds of charges just get swept under the table. people in honduras, united states and every other country want the rule of law to be upheld. serious charges have been leveled. i believe he should be prosecuted and i would like to know starting with you dr. press, what do you think? >> thank you congressman. i was, before, the question had

been posed about the return of mr. zelaya to the country. that of course will be put forth in the mediation table, but the problem will be too, i am awfully sure that that is going to be put forward in for him to return as president. the thing that would worry in the honduran that respects the rule of law would be that if he returns, if things follow the legal trends come and he will be arrested when he gets to honduran soil. he has to be arrested if we respect the rule of law. there is a warrant for his arrest, said that poses a problem, and the other problem would be his governability.

how would he be able to govern in a country that has a majority of the institution melody that is opposing him. everybody on this panel has talked about not only the judiciary, congress, the human rights commission, the attorney general, the catholic church. everybody has expressed that he was, that he was in contempt of law, that he was beside the law, and that he should be prosecuted , especially because he was rebellious with all the orders that were issued by other instances of the judiciary power. >> thank you. i think we will have to let that be the last question. >> let me ask very quickly, i hear the catholic church, everyone else had condemned this. i understand the minimum wage was raised in a lot of indigenous people were

supportive of the afro honduras, can anybody speak, i have not heard that mentioned. they were supportive of this coup. they wanted him out percolate person to raise the minimum wage, a man who came to new york to swear in a organization called the central american black organization made up of people of african descent throughout central america to show their respect. in other words does anybody have any indigenous or minority peoples physician, quickly? >> four of the five critical part is including parties representing many of the unions, many of the poor people simply upheld the law congressman and found that he violated the law but if i may say, i would hope he would not support a cut-off of eight which will hurt the poorest people in honduras, and to have the united states government cut off aid, where the people who will suffer are the people's-- list able to cope

with the cut-off of that aid. i hope democrats and republicans would not support a cut-off of a. >> one thing we do have to discourage, military coups and much of the aid goes around the government so i certainly could not see as continuing giving support to someone who is taken out of office by the army. eyes want to conclude because my time is about up, that i am outraged by the representation of the new government, which our foreign minister-- >> he has been forced out congressman. >> okay, but perhaps some kind of reflection of the group because when he says three times about this new little black man who is the president of the united states and then talked about as mr. dalan, negotiating with prostitutes, left this, blacks and whites, that is my job. however, i like this little

black sugar plantation worker who is president of the united states. i don't want to sound like i am prejudiced, but a statement like that certainly offends me. >> congressman, he is not a reflection of anybody. he is a far out extremist they get in there is nobody in the honduran government that did not support him being sack. >> who appointed him, the same guys the took out the former president? >> he got sack. >> he got in. >> may i add, may i add mr. paine that hugo chavez use the same term to describe president obama. >> i am talking about this country, he should have raised it then. i didn't hear it from chavez. >> it is reprehensible no matter who says it. >> i agree. >> the foreign minister was fired.

>> he is not going to have many times so i am going to yield. >> i think that was a very good point that ambassador reich was about to make. let's have one standard and one standard is when hugo chavez says something that you condemn him as much as you are condemning some guy that this group sacked because they didn't want to have anything to do with that type of language. mr. wright or mr. ambassador reich i should say, did mr. chavez himself lead a coup d'etat in 1992? >> yes sir, that was the coup d'etat. >> was his plan to put in power himself, who was a military man or was his idea was to put another democratically elected person into power? >> it was to put the military in power to replace an elected president who had not broken alaa burkas. >> so mr. chavez, the greatest ally of this would be cadillo in

honduras himself conducted a military coup against epidemically-- democratically elected person. >> i'm glad that mr. shifter referred to the double standard but as we have been hearing for the last several years, overlooking the violations of civil rights by governments of the left, the very weekend we were discussing here in the city what to do with the government of honduras which has been described here as having trampled on civil rights. hugo chavez announced he was closing down 240 racy of-- radio stations. i did not even see that reported. >> that is exactly what we could have expected from this would be cadillo who was also implicated in the drug trade in corruption. that is what we could expect from him. that is why his people who understood him and his fellow

political people on all sides of the spectrum, down there in honduras, think that was the right thing to remove him from power because he had violated the constitution. >> the gentleman's time has expired. dr. arnson, 30 seconds. >> i reference the two attended by president chavez. he was jailed for that attempt and subsequently was elected. this was not in defense of the venezuelan government but i think all of the people that have so passionately spoken on behalf of the rule of law have not mention the fundamental role of due process as a key aspect of the rule of law and they think if we can agree that it is not right to arrest someone in the middle of the night in his pajamas and put him outside, that there would have been, there would have been legal remedies for the resolution. >> mr. smith, i want to give--

ms. lee. >> let me just associate myself with the remarks of congressman payne and now i am learning also, while it is clear the honduran business community supported the coup, i am learning that president zelaya had raised the minimum wage because it has been said here how the business community has supported the coup and the church has supported the coup and know i am learning that the church did not of course like is the dough in the legislation to ban the morning after pill so more and more as you dig into this you can understand why some of what has been said is the case. about the inter-american commission report on human rights on july 3rd, they issued a statement expressing the concern over the human rights violations and said the commission said, fundamental rights have been restricted such as personal liberty and incommunicado detention for more

than 24 hours, the right of assembly as well its freedom of movement to enter and remain in the territory of honduras of given the reports about humans' rights abuses coming from this the fact the government, what is inappropriate response to that from those who support this, whatever it is that has been placed into power? mr. reich, maybe you could answer that. >> i'm not sure i understand the question. >> the human rights commission report that i just read in terms of the fundamental rights being restricted as a result of a coup. what is your position on how do we address that? >> i will not justify the restrictionist of civil rights by any government, however we need to also look at what led to the events of june 28 in honduras. there had been violations of the honduran people's civil rights by the zelaya government.

this didn't just happen, the honduran supreme court did not just wake up friday morning and decide, what we just write an opinion unanimously to get rid of the president. it was a succession of violations of their own law. >> let me just say we have at present, many of us have violated our own of the constitution and none of us have suggested any coup d'etat's. we'll by suggested a democratic process. >> right, because our system works and the institution works and what we are failing to see here is the institutions of honduras also work. i think this is a dialogue on the question of the coup. you have heard members of the supreme court tell you that by their law the actions of the president constituted a self activating rule by which you cease to be the president. i am not a lawyer.

as i said in my testimony i am not qualified to judge but i think that dr. perez-cadalso certainly is and he is saying to what as another president of the supreme court who i quote my testimony said that that action was legal mrs. lee, congresswoman lee. don't think the congress of the united states should sit in judgment of the supreme court of another country. >> let me tell you cuba has the constitution and there are those who are talking of both sides of the melds. >> there were also the norma-- nuremburg laws in germany. >> we have a member of the committee who is with us of another member of the subcommittee and that would like to give for an opportunity to westgate quick question. >> mr. chairman you are a very kind and i will be very brief. this is a crucially important hearing and i beg to differ with my dear friend mr. wright. it is important for constitutional government to comment on the process of government.

i would offer this. i think it is good news that the president of costa rican and secretary clinton are in process and i thank you for that. here's my offer. one that would like to ask ms. olson very quickly you think the pause we have on aid is positive? secondary i would like to hear from anyone who wants to answer on whether or not there would be an acceptance of the return of this president to finish out his stated constitutional term, because that is the crunch of what i believe is the fall. this was a director resorption of government. this was using tools that let them believe are written in the honduran constitution. is a coup written a constitution? i will end on that note and ask missiles and about the paws a date. it is not a complete elimination and anyone else who would like to answer whether they will accept in negotiations of secretary clinton and the president of costa rica and i

thank you very much mr. chairman and i yield back, the president of costa rica. thank you. >> just to respond to the question, i don't have the number in front of me but it is not a huge number of the suspended rate because so much evade this not go to the government. d.w.i think it is appropriate to suspend aid after coos? s i do because there has to be some kind of mechanisms that countries can use to show their disagreement in a sense so yes i do think it is appropriate and know we have not cut off all aid to 100. >> it is not an indictment of what we are trying to do? anyone want to answer about the negotiations? >> first of all, nice to see you and secondly i did want to correct the record by congresswoman lee, the business community did not support violating any constitutional or legal procedures regarding

shipping mr. zelaya out of the country. i said when you were not here congresswoman lee that it could've been done differently, but understanding the context of the fear at the time that he needed to be arrested and he needed to be prosecuted and that is the rule of law and i will let the parties themselves decide if and when he returns of the rule of law is going to be upheld and still as president obama always tells us and as secretary clinton always tells us let's come together in dialogue and find a solution where there is no blood shed where we can restore the rule of law. that is why secretary clinton has done such a great job. >> i agree. i yield back to say that i repeat a coup is not in the constitution. we have it here to the rule of law and the yield back to the chairman. >> thank you. unless there is anyone who would

like to add anything, may be a panelist like to add something. mr. mack and i have agreed to stay but i think we have covered it pretty thoroughly and we have had a whole different points of view but from my colleagues here and also from the palace so unless anyone has anything they really must say i want to attend-- thank each and every one of you for a very important testimony for what i consider this very, very important hearing. this subcommittee will continue to monitor the effects of the honduras and we will continue to act accordingly, so i thank the panels, i thank my colleagues in the subcommittee hearing is now closed. >> thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>> how is c-span funded? >> taxpayer dollars. >> by donations? >> public support.

>> consumer funded i guess? >> the were funded? >> private contributions. >> how is c-span funded? 30 years ago america's cable companies created c-span as a public service, a private business initiative, no government mandate, no government money. >> on thursday the national institutes of health held this summit on swine flu officially known as the age one and one virus. health officials report 37,000 known cases of swine flu and 211 deaths. this meeting is to ours. >> welcome back. we are going to have to back-to-back panels that are very important for preparedness at the state and local levels in the first one has to do with

school preparedness and we are very pleased to have as moderator, william modzeleski associate deputy secretary of the office of save and drug-free schools and the u.s. department of education. bill has 25 years of experience and education as well as the criminal and juvenile justice systems and is now a national leader in the design and development of school safety and health programs. then we have three wonderful panelists who have a lot to share with us about what school prepared this is like in the trenches. first, sues of 11 educational specialists at the wisconsin department of public instruction. she has been working on teams and her state for quite a while and she has great expertise as a teacher, counselor administrator and president of her school board. belinda pustka is superintendent of the schertz-cibolo school district in taxes and she has tremendous experience as a classroom teacher, building

principle and not currently is the superintendent overseeing a fast-growing suburban san antonio school district with close to 12,000 students, and then last but not least, mary pappas the listeners of the st. francis preparatory school in new york city. she is had experience as a nurse for 27 years and is the school nurse for six years at st. francis which has a population of 3,000 students and staff and a place that was very much in the news this past spring. this panel will go until 11:15. we are doing well on time so please welcome mr. modzeleski in our panelists. [applause] >> good morning. i wanted thank everybody for coming this morning and also thank you to the previous panelists. that is a tough act to follow, a

lot of great questions. i want to start where secretary duncan left off in thinking a lot of people and i know it is a bit redundant but there is one lesson we have learned in the recent outbreak of the h1n1 is it is all about partnerships. speaking from the education perspective is there is absolutely no way, no way in the world we can be successful if we don't form those partnerships so here is a thank you to the wonderful people, staff, leadership at cdc, health and human services, agriculture labor in the white house. all the steps of the may phenomenal job. i also want to thank all of those at the state and local level both at the public health perspective as well as the educational perspective. this is about working together and both of you at the state and local level for all 15,000 districts have done a phenomenal job so thank you. there to groups which we tend to ignore but i want to say thank you to and that is first of all

parents and thank you for putting up with us. you know we are open, we are close, it is going to be friday, is going to be for two days, it is going to be for three days and one thing i would say to all of those parents out there is a promise to do better next time around. and lastly to a group we often overlooked during the closing is students. want to say thank you to the students are putting up with us not knowing whether we are going to come back to school, not come back to school, whether it is going to be safe but there are a lot of thank you for the cooperation you have given us over the last, since the end of april. this is a panel designed to share a lot of information and ideas and hopefully to address some key issues. more specifically over the course of the next 50 minutes or so we hope to provide you with a brief overview of what happened, what transpired in three very

diverse areas. we hope to provide you with some lessons learned, what worked, what didn't work. for is to identify some obstacles to implementing a community policy which calls for the closing and i may say reopening of schools because we have issues with reopening as much as closing the schools. lastly, to examine the way forward. before returning to our panelist that want to say that finding a way to effectively mitigate the consequences of the flu while ensuring that learning continues is one of the most difficult task faced by committees both large and small. during the recent outbreak we found committed to mitigation actions had a tremendous impact on schools and students. school started to close in late april and continued to close until the end of the school year, june. at the height of the outbreak, which account ismay fip over 700

schools were closed. these closures affected 400-- four under and 68,000 students and because schools are also workplaces approximately 30,000 teachers were also impacted by these closures. we also found that he took a daily count of students who were not in school because of the flu you will find that cumulatively there were over 2 million students school days the remez so this all comes together to show this that even closing schools for a short period of time has a tremendous impact on the ability to teach in the ability to learn. we are cognizant that there is a recurrence of the flu in the fall we may have to take measures to again close schools. we are also fully aware of the difficulties, the complexities and hardships for students, faculty, parents and employers of closing schools even if it is for a short period of time. here to provide insight into

help us think through how we may be able to overcome some of the obstacles faced with schools are three experts. there were already introduced the let me say as susan today is here because one of the issues, i shouldn't say one of the issues, one of the things she brings to lay the table is that the nominal state plan to deal with the flu. belinda pustka is here from texas and one of the wonderful things they have done and i hope you have a lot of questions about this is the communications strategy that the employee in taxes, information to parents and community groups about what they are doing and lastly mary pappas is here because of fears standing in the community. one because it is in on public school. we often don't talk about non-public schools but she is one of the school nurses at the leadership of identifying and dealing with the flu outbreak. i am going to start with each of

the panelists beginning by telling in a little bit of their recent experience with the flu and to provide some of the uniqueness of their experiences. after that we have a few questions for each of them and then if we have time we will open it up for questions from the audience. so let me start with suzanne today. suzanne. >> thank you very much and thank you to all of you for being here today. while being a panel member today i also am learning a great deal from the wonderful resources in this room. i would like to briefly talk about the wisconsin department of public instruction role in the pandemic flu preparedness and our response. we were in a position to move forward with this situation because we had a long history of collaboration with their state health agency on public health issues. we actually have a formal memo of understanding to collaborate

on school health related issues, which dates back to 1993. our agency, the department of public instruction, also had in place crisis procedures for the continuity of our own operations at the department. we have been actively involved in our state asian flu, pandemic flu, cross-agency work group since 2006. we have assisted in a development and the updating of our state pandemic flu plan, which bill referred to, which has been reviewed and highly praised that the federal level. we have played an active role in tabletop exercise simulations of school closures, and we have used the results of these to

prepare our communications regarding k-12 school closures. with financial support from our state health agency, we have established and delivered technical assistance programs to our school community teams. we have this year been conducting daylong workshops for teams representing schools and communities to come together to prepare pandemic flu plans. when the situation hit in april, we had a great increased interest in those plans. schools that have the plants down they worked very well. schools that didn't bone they really needed to get moving and develop those plans. we have done and number of webcast. we have publications. we have sample web sites. we are updating that web site now.

we have sample crisis plans on the web site for schools to use. we have an electronic toolkit. we have training, we have consultation, technical assistance, periodic communications from our state superintendent to all schools, collaboration with their state educational organizations, and our area educational agencies. all of these situations were in place to help us deal with the h1n1 in april. we have also collaborated with our state public television network to identify educational programming that students and families can access during a school closure. we have also established communications with our private schools through a network that we have established. during the april situation, starting in april, we were actively involved with our state

agency through the incident command center, through briefings, teleconferences with the field and with the agency. we monitored the outbreak in school closures daily. we use their state plan to assist us with all of the happenings in april and may with the flexibility needed to meet this particular situation. we collaborated with state health organizations and at the local level with local health organizations to communicate regarding school closures and school health services. we maintain regular communications with their k-12 but minister aiders and our school nurses the e-mail list serves. we also found we needed to develop some new web-based resources to assist our schools as they were dealing with what do we do with field trips? what do we go with cocurricular

activities when their school closures? we need to provide constant updating of parent notification letters and we also developed a unit of instruction at the elementary, middle and high school levels regarding communicable diseases. we are now and the process of action just as we are doing here, looking at briefing with schools that were closed, looking at lessons learned and preparing for the next wave. we are presently responding to the kern and increased interest in school pandemic planning and preparation and providing technical assistance. >> thank you very much. one thing i should ask you before you go is there's a lot of great information and before we leave somewhere i would like to get the webpage were all of that information can be found so everybody can access all the information. belinda.

>> i am belinda pustka and then the superintendent at the insurance cibolo school district in texas. we are a superb rum san antonio school district. we serve not only schertz-cibolo universal city but we also serve portions of those but they did not get their name in the title. i have been a superintendent for a year's. it is a growing community. we grow by anywhere from eight to 12% for years so it is a pretty phenomenal growth. weiss serve a very large military population, about 30% of our students are military dependents. at steel high school which was the first school where h1n1 was identified they serve about probably close to 40% military dependents. this has been an interesting time for us as a district. we have a very good community, a very supportive community and this is what i have found through our experiences.

throughout this time the community chose to support in ways, only where the schools were closed, which placed an incredible hardship on parents, the city's cooperated. the close berks, the limited some of their activities. the churches agreed to close. they were closed for it leased to sundays, which presented a financial hardship on their behalf. but, overall, it has been a great community effort. i will tell you that i have met with parents, gatherings as large as this and they are usually angry over tax increases or rezoning or something like that, but i had an outpouring of support from parents i had never received on any issue during my eight years within the community. i think one of the things that we did well, looking back, is we

did a very good job of communicating with those parents. there's a lot of information available to them but what they wanted to know was what impact does that have on my family in my community, so we made that a regular part of what we did on a daily basis and that was communicating with parents, letting them know what it is that we found out. we invited the media in on a daily basis and we would even stream the interviews with the media live and then about the third fourth day we would have a twitter account and let people send us questions while we were meeting with the media and the most asked question was what was the status of from? [laughter] at a lot of school activities. i will tell you that it was a very positive experience, however, it was a very hard

experience for the community. almost every e-mail i got from a parent said thank you for taking the health of my child into consideration. it was a difficult decision to make but when it comes to the life of a child, no one wants to do any thing that will put them in harm's way. >> thank you very much and a quick question. what was the answer to the prom? >> bowtie schools have their promise. [laughter] >> mary. >> my name is mary pappas. i am the school nurse from st. francis prep high school. i appreciate very much the invitation to be here by the government. i appreciate very much the invitation to be here by the government and the nursing association. i am a private school nurse of

about 2700 students and 250 staff. i am the only nurse and i have to assistance. because i'm a private school i worked closely with the department of health in new york city for any questions that i have. sorry, is the better? so, thursday in my office began like every other day. i never know what is going to happen and in the unusual trend started very quickly with many fevers and cots. i alerted my principle and in turn told him shortly after when it was painfully obvious that it was getting worse the health department. i did have the health departments cell phone because i do, like i said, keep very close contact with them and they alerted the cdc. i had many children come to my office, which is a very small

office, with fevers, coughs and such looks of despair because that morning they left their homes feeling well. usually, the children, i did not feel good in the morning but my mom made me come. i had many children just looking like pick me, kick me because they didn't feel bad this morning. they were genuinely scared and i also got that impression from some of the staff, so if i remained calm, even though i was dying inside, they remained, and i had a disaster plan up the was suit on my bulletin board but we all know that when these things happen you have to tailor them and change them and i believe it was my nursing experience of all the years that i have, my organization skills and my instincts from my medical profession helped me to put into

working plan, an emergency plan at the drop of a hat and it seemed to work, and appearance, the staff who, the department of health, the principal, everyone seemed to be happy with the way it went. it could have been a much worse disaster. i sent home 102 children on the first day and 80 the second day and that does not mention all of the other children and i have seen for just the regular accidents, bumps, bruises so it was very stressful. >> let me start and come back this way. this is just, not a question but if you could provide bill little bit more information to the audience. mary, you talked about sending 102 students home the first day and 80 the second but you also close the school so he could talk about the impact of closing the school, how many students,

how many families in a little bit about the impact that had on the community? >> well, the first day, the way i did it was, because i only had one phone line. i send 102 kids home by having every child pull out their cell phone. [laughter] because, what child does not know where their mother is? i also left the security guard to help me. i said please go down the line, take their temperature and i gave him a posted packin and said drove the temperature on their chest. after i ascertain that every parent was who they were i asked them to pick up the child, explain quickly what happened, gave them the temperature and moved on. because of their cooperation in the parents were very appreciative of that, i was able to send everybody home in a timely and orderly manner. that was very greatly appreciated by the parents and

teachers, the staff, the administration because in a school that large you could have four assistant principals but every single one looks at you. your it in a medical emergency and that is a lot of responsibility. uft keep your cool. all of a sudden you represent the school to the terrence and it is my nursing in the that that i was prepared with my experience. and also because you are an advocate, i was very helpful to the parents. i tried to give them as much information as i could and the staff and i sent them home. we closed thursday and friday and by monday workloads for the week. i got a lot of e-mails from parents in the community that were very thankful.

they have questions. they thought that i handled it well. i also got many e-mails from the nurses around the country who recognized me and because they all understand that they may have 750 kids, they might have to hundred 75 but i had 2700 which is a very large amount of kids and unfortunately i think there are more and in fact some state students to not have the mayors. i really feel for them because kids have to be healthy to learn, and there is no one else than in nursing can really prevent things, and says things and to the interventions to keep them there and that helps keep the teachers in the classroom teaching because they are not doing medical things. >> thank you very much. i think not only you at your level with nurses throughout the country doing a phenomenal job in identifying this as well as

helping us work their way through and helping with parents. belinda, how about in your district? how did things unfold? >> this was what i found. we worked very closely with our health department and we are very new to a pandemic. this is the first time for us. we worked with the health department, sometimes with staff infections or moreso or something like that so we have had things before. i received a phonecall from the health department thing we had students who had been identified as having h1n1 and b were told that we would need to close. now what i have found in the state of texas is that within the health code there is a method for closing schools that's the health department is a very familiar with. i am more familiar with the education department, so finding

a mash for these overlying authorities, i found out very quickly that the county government has some say in it. i found out that there are many different entities that would have a say in whether a school is open door closed, but what i discovered a few days into it is that one of the things that would help school districts have the most is determining right now what would be the method for closing the school and something that bill mentioned earlier is not only the method for closing a school, but once a school or a school district is closed what are the sun's? what would be the protocol for opening the school back up and i think that would be very helpful. >> thank you very much sue and how about in wisconsin? how did things are to unfold there? >> i think there was a great

deal of concern in the beginning on the part of parents and some of that had to do with communication. the communication was coming so fast and so furiously and changing so fast from the national to the state to the local level that it became confusing for parents. they might check one soares and get one message gen check another source and get a little different message, and that of course was frustrating. what we have talked about now is the need to communicate to parents and families and to the community that this is probably going to be the case. there is probably going to be rapid communication and changing communication, and we need to be prepared for that. the message isn't going to come down on monday that will necessarily be the same on friday that we have to get the word out to families now so that

they can anticipate those kinds of things. we also found that it was very helpful to have at the state level a nursing consultant you could provide invaluable technical assistance to our schools. these schools were interested in the question that one of the governors said this morning about state aid and we did get to where web site in a very prominent place the situation in wisconsin. the dates that schools are closed under a healthy order come toward our 180 the requirement and this was very important with very tight budgets. we needed superintendents and school boards to have that kind of information. if they closed on their own without the health department order then they could apply to our state department of

education for waiver consideration. the poor all some of the issues that we found were in need of being addressed at the state level. also resources. we needed to provide even more resources than what we have provided to our schools already. and we are making plans now to shore those up even further and also to stress to our local school districts that they must work with their local health departments. this is a team approach and we have to have everyone on board before we get into a crisis situation. we are also stressing to our superintendents and our school boards they need to be part of the team. we can't simply delegate this task to school nurses because as mary pointed out, not every school district has a school nurse and even if they do this

test be a team approach, not simply a school and there's shouldering all of the burden. >> thank you very much and mary raises a very interesting point, what i think a lot of us would mccaulay conundrum which i don't think she realizes it or not but it gets into communication and all of these students pulled out their cell phones and called home. there were a few educators that no school system for habit cell phones coming into the school and this offer says i think the opportunity to begin to think that issue through from a different perspective. if we want to communicate with parents and especially in large numbers, in your case 2700 to 3,000, when you get to planning we have to look at these little issues too because they could have a significant impact when it comes time to mitigate these issues so thank you. i am going to again start over to my right in one of the quon