that there are lessons to be learned, some good lessons and some not so good lessons, some things that worked and some that didn't work. if each of you could very briefly talk about one thing which you think really worked well in one thing which didn't work well and maybe the reason why they either worked well or didn't work well and mary i will start with you. >> the thing that worked well for me was the communication with the parents and the cell phone and being able to-- the kids helped me in finding their parents because to use one phone in a school office with that volume, it just wouldn't have worked so that worked well and the parents were appreciative. the thing that didn't work well is i have a very small office and once atrios them, they just kind of hung around and more came in, so one of the things

that we look that and we called it a ready room, if you will, to have these children your definitely sick, dep nelly infectious but they all have the same thing but their parents are coming coming to move to another area in designated as ready room. fetus that and it's not yours, don't touch it. [laughter] the more teaching we do to the kids the better. [laughter] >> you know, i guess going back to what we did well i think that we did a very good job of communicating. i think we used as many methods of communication as we had.

we are -- we pride ourselves on being a technology rich school district. we invest in technology. however i don't think you have to be a technology rich district to communicate well with parents and the modes they are used to. they are very familiar with the use of technology. i also knew that we had both ap tests and ib test saloom and whenever the students returned as well as the state accountability measures and so, there was still instruction that needed to happen, and so once the schools were closed and the first day students were home i knew the first they would be a holiday and the day after that they would be bored and i started hearing from parents singing please give activities we can have our students do at home and so we had small groups like two or three teachers meeting developing activities and we posted all of those

things on line but i guess on the flip side it was on opening because we use technology in the school district to support the classroom instruction. we also look at online instruction and the value but for the first time i saw a truly what instruction needed to be is seem less so that you can have classroom instruction supported by technology and from those times students aren't in the classroom the need to have -- needs to be coordinated and it needs to be so that students can flow from a regular classroom instruction to online and back again and we are not there yet but if we are looking to the future that is one thing we have to consider so that it's not a separate but it is all the work made. >> belinda, before i get to you, sue, before you post the

district to get support closing the district from the superintendents in the surrounding area from the state? was their support from that? >> initially. [laughter] it's easy at first, but it is more difficult the more days that you are into it. the first day everybody is supportive. the second day is tougher, the third day -- and i think that also looking at it, because the symptoms were mild, people discounted it over a period of time, and so having a coordinated effort all the way through will be the most challenging part of the process. >> thank you. xu? >> i think what worked well for us is having a solid state plan and using that plan over the past several years to assist

school districts are around the state with their planning to provide them with the training and to provide all of the technical assistance they might need, encouraging the collaboration of the state level with various agencies involved and encouraging collaboration at the local level. as far as what didn't work so well we didn't have too much opportunity to get into continuing education because of the short closure time. but i would agree with belinda this is an area that definitely needs work. we have talked about it in all of our trainings. we have encouraged local school districts to get involved in putting together a plan for continuing education but that isn't easy to do. yes, online works in some cases.

i represent a state that has a lot of rural areas students do not because of poverty reasons or geography reasons have access to high-speed internet so we cannot jeopardize the learning of those students during a prolonged closure. we have to look at things other than online learning. we have to look at educational television which does hit every single corner of our state. we have to look at learning packets. yes, that may sound old-fashioned but in some cases that is the way students are going to learn. we have to look at getting the word out to parents and families, how they can be involved in learning of our students. some of our area educational agencies and our state are looking at how they can help local districts to provide this

continuing education during a prolonged closure but this is definitely a challenge that we need to address. >> thank you. one of the questions we were constantly asked as we were going through this epidemic is when do schools closed in this country? i think we were trying to figure out the quicker we could close the quicker we could get ourselves out of litigation and what we discovered as there are some schools that close and may and some clothes in june and some schools never close, they go year are now and then we have the question on the other and what are we going to do when school is open and went to schools open? the fact is as we begin to look at this some open in august, some open in september. and again, some go year round, but in your individual districts, you're individual schools and sue, for your state, we look schools are going to be opening but changes are you going to bring about in your emergency management plans or

crisis plants? what changes are you going to institute for the new school year? >> one of the things we are going to be doing is conducting several after action groups now and interviews with superintendents to gather that information and put that together very, very shortly to be able to communicate with districts throughout the state. we are looking at more training to stress to districts every one of them the need to have a plan. we are looking at enhancing our website and our electronic tool kit, which is very valuable to local districts. we are looking at a state letter similar to the duncan sebelius letter that went out to schools. we are looking at helping parents to better prepare for this, to deal with child care

issues ahead of time, nutrition issues ahead of time and looking at various local agencies that might assist in meeting the nutrition needs of the students would depend upon breakfast and lunch programs at our school. as i mentioned we need to address the continuing education plans that we at this point have not lost out to the point they should be. and we need to let our parents and families and communities know that this will be an evolving situation, and what we know now is not the same as what we may know in the very future. and things will change very rapidly. and we need to help our communities better prepare for what may occur in the fall. >> i guess this is a bit of a true confession time for me. we have to have a pandemic plan

and the school board had approved the memorandum of understanding with the county group, and i will tell you the county director did a great job of trying to put everything together. but i didn't really pay attention to it that much. it's one of those things i assigned someone else and went about educating students on to all this came about. but the good thing was the was a plan in place. it wasn't necessarily the parts we practiced, but there was a connection that had been established and so that's good. so going forward and i will pay closer attention to what that plan means and i rely very much on the people within the guadalupe county association. it was and valuable as far as helping us communicate, getting information. it was a good association, very

worthwhile. also going forward, and you might ask me how i'm going to address this and i don't have an answer i'm concerned about to student groups in my school. i'm concerned about the teenagers. they are a social group and i can understand why they would be the most at risk. i am also concerned about the campuses where we have the highest number of students offering reduced lunch. i know they don't have access to the same health care other students have. and so going forward watching those groups will be something we have to pay very close attention to. >> one of the things that changed and is going to change is my position in the school i think is much more respected. [laughter] because of what i did and what i

do. the administration almost bowel's to me as they pass me in the hallway, which is very nice. so that's a good change. like i said again, the plans we have had, plans in place, the ready room which is just a moratorium, and teachers, staff and parents know where it is, that is a good change. we always communicate to parents about important things, activities on the web which we will do. we keep in contact with the principle administration with the department of health and cdc. sue anything new they want to change or add or do for september it will be on the web. one of the things we want to do though is maybe reintroduce the phone notification system if a crisis does happen. also now they would like to get cell phones of parents to register the number so maybe we can send a quick text which

seems to be the state of the art thing to do. we have ordered the monitors that are non-invasive, they can just put up to the child's forehead so you don't have to worry about disposable covers. it's good infection control and because of the volume of kids i have that's a big help. and again, just to say like belinda said i have teenagers, it's education, education, education and all kind of talks or seminars, whatever they have they are going to talk about universal precautions like i said before hand washing, sneezing into your sleeve was mentioned before and if it is wet don't touch it. and just hope for a good year. >> thank you. one final question for the panel and we will start with sue and that is you have an audience here filled with leaders of the federal and state level, persons

from health and human services, homeland security, the cdc, agriculture, labor, all of the key agencies involved in mitigating the consequences of h1n1. if he had one thing you want to say to them what would it be? >> communicate, communicate, communicate. we need that communication at the state level so that we can get it out to our constituents out there in the local districts and the local teams. and we need the communication frequently. we needed to be accurate. we needed to be meaningful. and we need communication that we can get out to families and parents of these young people. we also need to support our schools. we need to have the dollars to

be able to provide the education, the nutrition and health services to them. thank you. >> we are in the education business and we are pretty -- we do a good job of educating students. what i need from all of you is an idea of when it is best to close and when it is necessary to close and when it's not. when is it the student's health isn't jeopardized by being in school and telling us what is most critical and we do a good job adapting to what we hear but we need a good strong clear message and it needs to be consistent. >> my most important point is every school needs a nurse.

every child deserves to be safe and healthy and an opportunity to learn. >> thank you, mary. just one of nurse? [laughter] if you're going to ask, ask big. [laughter] you know, as i listen to the panel it's interesting because a lot of things that the three of them at the state, local level have to say or parallel a lot of with the secretaries were saying that the federal level. and if there's any take away -- i wrote down about five takeaways. these are sort of messages that come over and over again. one is planning is essential. the time of the crisis is not the time to call up your health worker, mental health worker. i think secretary don king talked about our efforts at the department of education and

secretary sebelius talked about her efforts, secretary napolitano and this is about planning and we encourage every school in the country if they don't have a plan to get a plan and tested with the plan together to make sure they partner it with folks from homeland security, folks from the public health, folks from the mental health site. this is a community effort, it isn't just a school eckert. number two as i think mary talked about this and belinda talked about this somewhat, and sue talked about this and this is the uniqueness to schools. we come from urban areas, suburban areas, rural areas and there isn't one-size-fits-all and when we began to do the planning we need to take into consideration the uniqueness and the resources available and build a plan are not that. number three is it's all about the old song you've got to have friends, while you've got to have partnerships and this is about partnerships. this is like facebook and the more friends you have -- this is

about how many partnerships can we build. this is about good, strong, effective partnerships. and if there's one thing we preach at education to the staff it's that we've got to reach out to people who we don't even normally deal with and forge those partnerships and alliances because we know as educators we cannot do it ourselves. fourth, it's about communicate, communicate, communicate. one of the things, and i think belinda, you mentioned it, which i found very interesting, is it's not only communicate, communicate, communicate, but also communicate at the local level. your parents are also much interested in what we have to say from washington, they were interested in what you had to say about the district, right? did you find the same thing, mary? >> [inaudible] >> okay. and last week, and i hope that all of us never forget this, is that schools are about teaching and learning. and that we need to find ways to

basically continue that process if we have to close schools. and last, i want to give a pitch for my colleagues at the centers for disease control and prevention and the department of education who are working on a system to help monitor school closings. i think it's absolutely essential and vital as we close schools if we have to close schools in the fall is we have information that -- timely information, accurate information on what is happening in wisconsin and texas and what's happening in new york city and all that so hopefully all of you work with your groups and associations to help us work through and develop an effective monitoring system. let's give the panel a round of applause. they did a phenomenal job. [applause]

all three of the panelists will be here throughout the day. please go up, introduce yourself, ask questions and trust me, they have a lot of questions for you. again, thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you very much. i would like to ask the next panel to come forward. they do you are welcome to stand up and stretch in your seats for about 30 seconds. that's good for public learned from states and localities. and first i'm very pleased to introduce the moderator dr. steve the director of the influence coordination unit at centers for disease control and prevention. he has many years of experience at the cdc in areas of international health, malaria,

immunization program and national center for environmental health. he's joined by three very distinguished panelists. first dr. arnold director of public health for the illinois department of health. he's been in that position since october, 2007 and previously served as medical director for bioterrorism and preparedness for the chicago department of public health. dr. arnold also served the national guard for 24 years and currently is also the state surgeon for the illinois army national guard. dr. marcy late and his assistant commissioner for the new york city department of health and mental hygiene. she has played a leadership role in many new york city public health responses for example west mile five is in 1999 and to the world trade center attacks and anthrax in 2001. she's frequently lecture on a national and international circuits on preparedness and infectious diseases. and last but not least, we have

expected of director of the navajo nation division of health. he has held this position since june, 2003 and he has over 30 years of experience and social services, child welfare and health care including 12 years with the navajo area indian health service. dr. read will start as moderator. >> thank you. it is a great pleasure for me to be here today moderating this session reviewing what we've learned and what we need to plan for in the future. we have got a great plan panel as you heard and what's great about this panelist the spectrum of experience and situations that represents that we have got new york city arguably the brunt of the h1n1 epidemic focused in urban areas. we've got got trouble perspective in indian country, rural situation and then from illinois both geographically and

epidemiological in between the two extremes. but before we turn to the panel on want to reflect just for a moment as a person at this point in the program is actually a reassuring to me that what i am going to say you have already heard before service will be echoing the remarks made up to this point. the first -- the first point i want to touch on is the importance of planning and exercising. and this pandemic we prepared for wasn't the one we actually experienced, but the plans that we developed and exercised were critical in the first few months. mosul much for what we actually did or executed but for the process of knowing what questions we needed to address and process for answering those questions. and so, at this point we have new factors and assumptions, so as you heard already there is a new planning process that needs.

what's different about this planning process is that it is an open ended that we have to have new plans in place for what may occur in the coming months and we may see an upsurge in cases. having said all of that we need to maintain the flexibility that we used in the first few cases that we are going to be confronted by new facts. the second thing i want to point out is the importance of partnership in responding and i might even use a different word than partnership. what we have executed is the ability to work as a team and it goes beyond partnership. everybody has their role but we know what they are and we work together. this is especially relevant for our state and local partners since the national response in a lot of ways is the sum of those state and local responses. and at the federal level, what we need to do is to create an

environment where those local decisions and planning process these can be most effective. so, i just want to reiterate in the spirit of teamwork that now is the time to be planning, and this needs to occur at all levels of the partnership. and just as a closing point, i want to reiterate how important communications have been in this whole response and that it will be very important when forward. i think we have done a -- we've recognized the need to tell people what we need to know, what we don't know, what we are doing and again create the environment with the right kind of decisions made at individual and at institutional levels. so we have a lot of work ahead. this is different from most emergency responses. it this is not bring to the short-term response. we don't know how many months we

are going to be responding, but we do know it will be all weigel and we should expect new facts, we will be confronted with new facts and have to make decisions that can't be completely anticipated at this point. but in working together, we can plan working in partnership and we will work to protect public health. so with those introductory remarks let me turn first to dr. arnold to tell about the situation in the illinois. >> okay, first of all don't worry about the slides. i'm gwen to go through those very quickly. my wife also installed a pop-up blocker so i will be stopping at some point very shortly. [laughter] so, the first slide i naturally going to go to the first slide

there are about 19 key resource sectors. as i start this i want to acknowledge the president, secretary sebelius, secretary napolitano, also secretary duncan. very essentials people to have coordinated effort. other messages were incredible. i also want to recognize the doctor from the cdc. he saved my blood pressure and my life many times by his announcements on the tube. also to nih and doctor now assistant secretary with hhs, they have a good person as we have multiple people in the room i want to thank the military for its continued service and that includes the public health service, the cdc did a phenomenal job in the spring. that really brought this to a good point in time. the association of territorial officials worked with them and

actually did an incredible job bringing the right messages and the american public health laboratories. you can name the association of the epidemiologist, there are multiple agencies that came together to make this a success including dhs and all of its branches. one of the things i wanted to point to is this one area for the public health and health care sector back in the early 1900's we had separation between sanitation and public health for some reason. many of the public health sanitation avenues have been separated in the state much of the sanitation infrastructure is independent and operates independently from us. they are private sector entities many of them. those sanitation services if they were to fail would give the onset of a potential of a secondary epidemic in the middle of a crisis.

we must pay attention to the sanitation sector. this is one slide i always liked how and why. how is the science question valid or invalid whereas why is one in theology, philosophy, mental health and legal and it's really fallacies of logic and explanations ideological opinions. those things are two separate questions when we are answering a question of science we still have to keep in mind that a community operates in both sectors and it works with the why question. very few people during katrina asked me why did my house get blown down. they know a geological phenomena came through and asked me why did it happen to me so we must always have a human dimension and compassion that our associations have for reaching the people. here are models i liked some are

wrong summer useful. in god we trust, all other spurring data.@@@@@@@ @ rr through this old paradigm. we also worked with that esf a function and esf-6 function of

the we are relatively confined into the esf-8, essentials support functions. okay what we did and away the first state to conduct the exercise in may 2006 called flu ex. he is working in l.i. stage right now and funds legislation, passed some on-the-spot legislation that actually allowed us to distribute the stockpile. he took a very serious consideration of all of the exercise is we had done in the past. this year i actually had my entire senior staff, 42 idp h staff go through nims training, 100, 200, 700 come 800 then 300, 400 level. they also -- that was to be worried also the cdc training which they have brochures outside on the table in march

actually they put the cap on this so that when in april that can flow came along with the cdc guidance and the other organizations we were able to put people into the public health emergency operations center and an operational mode. rubber on the ground. they fell into position, set up their command structure and were operational from day one. they know exactly where they were. they walked in amazement up to me and said i know where i am and they knew what their functions were. very important to this kind of training in the background. interagency collaboration. the illinois emergency management agency, my counterpart and my state is director andrew velázquez. it was critical to have his coordination and collaboration. it brought us a very long way.

this is different from that old bottleneck i was talking about with the hourglass model. this requires people to knock down the walls and start working together to find solutions to problems. also the illinois national guard was essential. the illinois department of human services and the illinois department of transportation worked together to make sure this worked. the multiple community-based faith based and guarantee based organizations as well as volunteer organizations were essential, those are our emergency response volunteers, nurses and medical personnel. very essential. i also want to come end of the cdc and nih. all of the institutions putting information out because he saved this country during an economic downturn billions and billions of dollars. that isn't being said yet.

but billions and billions of dollars. you stop the crisis from happening by controlling the messaging and making sure people remained calm. i talk about public health many times as being very close to being analogous to a car you drive to work every day and never think about the break. but let the break fail at an intersection and you have morbidity and mortality. so i'm going to go very quickly for the rest of the slides. this one is the guidance focus establishment of the authorities through nims, operational planning objectives, clear-cut strategic goals, definitive implementation strategies, and equivocal responsibility assignment. you are responsible to get this done, your name. measurable performance objectives and monitoring of agency continuity operations planning. it is essential to keep the balance in the agency. public health monitors water,

food, it does many other things, neonatal screening, nursing home care, you name it. a very vast array of services we can not allowed to lapse. other things with g.i. s mapping and population movements, deploying members, migrant farmworker camps, commercial transportation, graduation ceremonies, community spring season events were a problem. faith based celanese, business meetings and inaccurate census data as we have movement around the state without realizing where the populations are without the 2010 census being in debt. okay. pharmaceutical distribution which had five major regions we used, that was the distribution point for this act will implementation. these were the convoy routes we had through the state.

because of the coordination between the army, our unit at the department of public health and several other agencies of transportation, we were able in 16 hours to distribute the 25% of the national stockpile given by the cdc to 102 counties, 95 local health departments and 356 hospitals throughout the state, 16 hours, no injuries. it was because they planned, exercise and knew exactly what they had to do. this is the case count through and i want to show you the time frame, this is may 14th. so this is where the actual cases were occurring. this is top line call. this was on the 12th. look at all of the hot line calls and these were not even affected. it was all media driven. they were responding to what

they were listening to in the media. okay. and these are the cases. we mapped out of the migrant camps because the forms we were worried about the migration and they were also trading as though they were army camps. they were not only a possibility of bringing infection in but susceptible to infection as well and could act for an explosion of local outbreaks. the things we did, as an s deployment 16 hours, three state idp each laboratory locations so we did a confirmatory test in-house with assistance through the cdc, sample search capacity flexibility because of the locations, springfield and chicago and carbondale are separate geographical all states or about 290 miles long so we have redundancy in case

something happens in one of the lab areas. cdc community mitigation strategy was also implemented, beautiful document, can indications we had the hot line. we went through the poison control center and that was with idp h because they were used to handling stress. they were able to talk to people without having to be worried, they could calmed them down, lay their fears and they know how to handle people so we actually had communication lines, spanish, english and in other languages house well. multilingual was important and the media and hospitals, local health departments and state and emergency operation center. they were critical for making sure we had weekly if not daily meetings with some of them to bring all of the departments together to bring all of the hospital's together on calls and the private practitioners who were doing it in strategic calls

making sure everyone was on the line from the agencies so everyone was listening to the same message. also the star, 21 radio system we put in a year ago that has allowed us to communicate with all hospitals at the distribution sites. it worked out very, very well. the fifth based organizations we actually had a pandemic flu ambassador programs. we have had that in existence for about two years. it encompasses 7,000 face based institutions in a database with 500 being on the main 80 or broadcast ministers during the pandemic flu outbreak we have been putting information into their missile let's or documents to hand out in the faith based institutions. the 35 seized were always contain, cover, clean. we made sure they had a simple message and that we kept going for the community.

the faith based institutions are trusted organizations with the local health department as well and our communities sectors. we do not have enough private sector interaction and that is what the leadership is about. this is a current situation, 3,002 to 59 cases in illinois. 6,762 cents were tested and 37 of 102 counties, some 37 counties are affected currently. there were 14 deaths mostly in people who had underlining medical conditions but we did see that particular situation with asthma as being one of those that stood out in our groupings. it was also seasonal flu vaccination campaign. it is essential for us to do this. we are mounting one now. the reason is if you do push the seasonal flu vaccination program

what you will do is allow us to stop potentially 36,000 deaths that occur every year as one of the things. second thing is you will decrease the prevalence of seasonal flu because if i had the flu and i am on that educated about this, with the symptoms are i'm going to my doctor, i'm going to my hospital. it could prevent a surge on hospitals, local health departments and private practice if people are immunized against the seasonal flu because once the media were john starts people are going to come in so it's important to do that. it also saves businesses and employees from getting sick from seasonal flee when you also have people out from potentially h1n1 there's also the preparation for a mass vaccination and surges we continue to monitor these things and the last slide as to follow the cdc outlined according to

age now and this is the total number of cases and the number of deaths for each of these categories and you can see it's almost a distribution as we thought with this group the 25 to 49 be more affected. at least preliminary from this data. what we needed, some things we need other than founding with a smile, more wireless access for laptops, workspace templates and emergency operations centers, pre-identify and traditional stuff to support the pheoc and distribution sites and we need staff. my staff was at the image of being burned out. we have got to get and make sure we have a staff that is sustainable for the long haul. the national guard made a mention from the bureau one of the major generals and what his

statement was is that in the army there is one of these statements that says in the day the bea weare. people who are becoming ill should be put on the cyclist so when they are recovered they can be reinterpreted in areas where you have potential risks for exposure. also better private-sector involvement and much clearer definition of the usage and when it is appropriate to use an mi5 mask orloff mask. even a coif basque can stop you from inoculation and maintain local drop site database and restructure all of the incident action plans for partner integration. so that's all i have to say in won sohn said. -- one sunset. [applause] >> thank you, dr. arnold. now we will hear from dr. marcy

from new york. >> good morning. i don't have any slides which is unusual for me and i am a new yorker so i talk fast. a lot of people have talked about the importance of planning and i am definitely a proponent of emergency response planning ahead of time and ironically we were in the midst of finalizing a revision of the 2006 pandemic plan this spring when the h1n1 outbreak of life in new york city and although overall the planning process for pandemic helped the response this spring there were definitely several assumptions that ended up not being applicable to this particular outbreak. first, we thought we would have morning ahead of time a pandemic was occurring and that it was more likely to be recognized overseas prior to its arrival in new york city and second, we were preparing for the worse case scenario in 1918 like pandemic and we thought that we would be able to address@@@@@@@r

characteristics or its virulence, as we had to make our initial decisions on how to respond in the absence of the data that we had hoped would be available and though initially the new york city outbreak was primarily associated with the high school within two weeks we

started to see evidence of more widespread community transmission first in the area around the high school and then eventually all areas of the city and as of yesterday we had identified over 900 hospitalized cases and 47 deaths and we estimate the several hundred thousand new yorkers were infected. and though the miracle impact was probably no worse than the seasonal flu as other speakers diluted to is that younger age groups were more severely affected. in new york city about 43% fossilized cases occurred in children, and 96% of deaths occurred in people less than 65 psp one ..

epidemic for pandemic, identify whether the people are at risk for complications for those affected by h1n1 and if there were any different from seasonal flu. second we wanted to try that trajectory of the outbreak in did this by focusing on how their illness using existing electronic surveillance system.

not a good sign. existing electronic, the outbreak -- i should be ok. [laughter] use derrin surveillance system for emergency department and primary care visits which allowed us with minimal staff resources to monitor this geographic spread in the age groups affected and third reading several population based telephone service to provide information on the overall infection rates in the city in order to estimate of hospitalization and a fatality rates and allow us to compare the severity with seasonal flu and lastly we did if you epidemiologic modeling studies with both cdc and academic partners to assess by a transmission characteristics such as incubation and generation time. in response to outbreaks in institutional settings was intense obviously in schools but also city jail system. in new york city we have system hundred public schools with every million students and rationale for school closure was

not to mitigates any widespread, we realize that was possible but to prevent transmission to those at highest risk in that particular affected school community if it was experiencing existing or increased incidence of influenza like illness at the school. our policy was not based on just having one or more confirmed cases. and told a closed 55 schools for five to seven days, none of which experienced a recurrence when reopened. as far as correctional settings our main city jail has over 13,000 inmates on average in a given day and when the initial cases were recognized around the time we started to seek limited transmission we implemented it and aggressive screening, isolation, prophylaxis and restriction policy to contain the outbreak and were very successful. we have 100 confirmed cases, very little sustained transmission in any housing units and no deaths in the correctional facility. as far as public communication we did numerous press releases

and press conferences, in number of black shoes were developed to address a wide range of issues and translated into opera and languages. we tried to share information as soon as it was available using multiple modalities which had detailed at the same logic updates available on-line. we distributed over 21,000 educational posters and brochures and tree -- about 54,000 h1n1 related calls to our public call center. as far as medical provider of education we did a number of health alert through our network to get up-to-date information to our medical partners and developed new york city specific guidance documents to help providers in new york deal with triage patients presenting with nonspecific a fever and respiratory illness as well as guidance on the use of the antiviral and a proper precautions or infection control and personal protection. we tried to make ourselves available to our medical partners by doing almost daily

conference calls especially at the start of the outbreak with our hospitals as well as separate calls with private providers and a committed to health clinics and mental health agencies and our provider access line or call center was opened seven days a week and a little over 5,000 calls. although our response to health care will be addressed in the afternoon session in much more detail by dr. debra. here with me today we like other affected cities experience extremely high patient visits and our emergency department and primary care centers mostly involving children. two briefly touch on some of the challenges and opportunities that we faced from is surveillance perspective the absence of having comparable of surveillance systems for seasonal flu made it difficult to compare are dated to the regular flimsies and and our findings that data describing are in perspective and especially to quickly determine if the outbreak was more severe

and more restrictive control measures and unusual for flume justified in paris second it was difficult to compare our findings to the rest of the u.s. since different types and intensity of surveillance methods and public health lab testing criteria were used and unlike as many states also reporting members of my cases and quickly determined that wasn't feasible and even if we tried it wouldn't be rep. we like other states have a public health lab capacity so in new york we prior to rest testing early on for hospitalized and pillowcases only and not overwhelm our city lab with the other cases. we are able to successfully educate our clinicians who initially wanted to use test results for clinical management but since h1n1 was really the predominant respiratory pathogen in the city during both may and june the tremendous sessions should be based on clinical presentation of influenza like illness and not on test results and finally the surveillance

that we did to determine the number of hospitalized cases was extremely labor-intensive and that money not sustainable for a more prolonged or severe pandemic especially given limited that diagnostic capacity. counting every case was never part of our pandemic plan, line to focus our resources on collecting the data we need to make a public health decisions. as far as learning from this for the fall we are planning for surveillance approach that will allow us again to monitor the course and reject three of the outbreak in a more sustainable and efficient way and allow us to identify any changes in a characteristic of the virus. it will continue to enhance our sent from a surveillance systems which were extremely useful in allowing us to the trajectory of the african to tell where activity was most intense in this city as well as the age groups impacted. we will probably take a sentinel or sampling approach to case based surveillance for some real

animus and mountainous and work with a representative sample of hospitals and primary care clinics to provide information on the types of viruses circulating since not all influenza illnesses may be due to h1n1 and allow us to assess whether the virus is clinical and characteristics are changing. i like to work with federal agencies aren't in their academic partners to plan ahead of time for the types of of this clinical studies that we should conduct at the sentinel sites to address the key knowledge gaps such as how best to manage patients who are chronically ill not getting better despite anti-viral treatment and recognize the need for consistent surveillance approach nationwide to allow for better comparison of surveillance members. i probably our biggest challenge this spring was having to put the and consciously develop a policy on school closures as we began to see more committed to a wide transmission and increasing number of affected schools. at a time this was in a way that

we didn't yet have data on how severe or contagious the virus was. we did follow the federal guidance of the time that recommended closure for even one confirmed case in a school which we thought in new york city was unrealistic and unnecessary. our experience however give some opportunities to be better prepared for the fall reflected a wealth of data on both schools were closed and those that were on our watch list but remained open to husband and determine the impact of school closures on the transmission. we are collaborating with cdc on a survey of close calls to help assess both economic impact of school closures on families as well as what children actually did it when not in school. and the rear in the process of reassessing our approach with a fall like many of you with a more aggressive closure policy likely being limited to this an area where the virus becomes material and especially in children. leslie though not we simply

communication. from a risk mitigation perspective it was very talented and beyonce are reassurance regarding our finding that the go over all the illness was mild we were sometimes recommend a more restrictive and extraordinary public-health measures than we normally do for seasonal flu, most obvious thing closing schools. was also very difficult articulating our rationale for how we're approaching our school closure decisions because it wasn't a simple numerical cut off or formula and ensuring timely notification of that particular school committee when a closure decision was made. we also found it difficult to use public message in that sense to help dampen the demands on our emergency departments especially for those less severely ill or the seeking testing for reassurance are to return to work or school especially for those who didn't have any easy access to medical care. on the other hand, we were in that some of our messages

regarding persons who didn't need to seek early treatment and not being heard well, especially among persons who might not consider themselves at higher risk including pregnant women or parents and children with mild asthma. with respect to provider communication it was sometimes challenging to expand our policy differences with cdc especially with respect to respiratory protection as we along with several other states did not recommend it routinely use of a respirators and as was the need for the type of measures and committed these settings, it is unrealistic for persons at high risk in new york city to avoid crowded places. as far as opportunities in which everything else we now have some time i think this summer and based on our experience to improve our communication tools and messages and that this especially to leverage of the tools that are available palm our federal partners. as well as working through some of our policy differences given

that the knowledge we all gain from the spring and findings of the current flu season and the southern hemisphere. i just want to in the during the first two weeks of the outbreak in new york city i used to tell my staff when it was mostly limited to st. francis high school in queens that my nickname for the outbreak was swine flu 2009, the best prepared mr. l ever and though it ended up being much one than in jail or exercise because i'm still learning how we are fortunate in that in the experience we just had and the lessons we learned openness and a much better position to raise the town is we're all concerned about in the fall so thank you and soren that i couldn't talk. [applause] >> our final speaker, the executive director of the division of health. >> thank you.

greetings from the navajo land. i want to extend my greetings to secretary sebelius, secretary napalitano, secretary duncan, and the state government and also all you're distinguished ladies and gentlemen. again i am from the navajo nation and the executive director of the lahood division of health and i'm honored to be here and speak to the distinguished group here. would like to do is alan flag to a high that some of the things we have worked on it in navajo land. i want to give you a sense of where we're coming from by doing , the nomination is only one of over 500 indian nations in this country so i wanted give you a sense of how the indian nations operate, the land base. also wanted to share with you the lessons learned from our perspective and then also with some recommendations. again in the navajo nation is

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around. the population density is 7.1 persons per square mile so it is a very rural, over the weekend during the fourth of july i was invited to a family gathering near a place called the pine springs. i went from my home and tried to gallop on i cornyn and went west and then it turned right near hot, arizona and turned north and drove 18 miles on dirt roads, washboard, if you know what i'm talking about. it took me one important -- it took me one an hour and 30 minutes to travel 18 miles -- and that is the conditions we have in our communities and on navajo land have 300 people registered, about 200 reside on the nomination. in addition to the three states region we are also located in three different federal regions under region six in dallas, also have to work with the region eight office in denver,

colorado, and also have a third place which is region nine in san francisco so any time that we have to do with different federal programs we have to be aware of a stiff and settings. the health care delivery system is such that the indian health service is the primary health care provider of the navajo people. vesicant organization that is very active and health care delivery system is in the navajo division of health which is where i'm coming from and then also we have when we, that contract writers. programs that and on minister that federal programs that used to be administered by federal agencies and we have indian health services that provide services to over 200,000 active users and one year we have served about 1.2 patient visits. let me also say that navajo

traditional healing practice is still part of the health care delivery system. we have navajo people that get sick and they do not hesitate to utilize the native practitioners and we still hold them very dearly. over the years the navajo nation had to do with a number of public health emergencies, such as tuberculosis, hunter virus, hiv, and other diseases such as salmonella and e. coli and then also sometimes we have to get involved with what we call operation mott left, we also had to help people we had to deal with forest fires and now we also have to get involved with the h1n1. then they give you a sense of how we dealt with the h1n1 outbreak this past spring. we first got the information in april and right away we set up a

meeting with the navajo area indian health services and then initiated the whole alert face for team and then set up an incident management team and then also said of the emergency command center that was manned by the navajo bioterrorism program and then we also resorted to that epidemiology's center and then these programs have the daily contact with the navajo area indian health services, also had to contact with the states of arizona and mexico and it worked very closely with the surrounding 13 counties. and then a very fortunate that we are able to respond quickly according to the information we got some of the navajo area indian health services, altogether 71 suspected cases that were reported, 13 cases

were confirmed, and nine individuals were hospitalized. we were very fortunate that all of these individuals recovered. now let me turn to some of the things that i want to share with you in terms of of the lessons learned and a working with the various entities. so many challenges and then some of the gaps that we saw there were several. one has to do with there are issues of related to multi jurisdictional issues. there is also a lack of comprehensive public health policy, a plan because when you work with the various entities by the counties in the states, you have to understand them, you have to understand the rules and regulations. there is a definite need to

develop formal agreements between the various entities with the nomination and when you don't have a very comprehensive plan, this may contribute to delay as services and also long the delay of distribution of drugs so sometimes we do need medical supplies that need to be delivered quickly which you have to get into checking with someone and that someone is to check with someone else again so that is what we go through, but in spite of all that i think we have a good working relationship with most of the entities that have to work with. secondly there issues related to the lack of infrastructure and information technology. there is a definite need for one definite strategic national stockpile facility in navajo area, there is also a need for adequate information technology

that would allow us to process data collection and also to analysis including disease recording and reporting systems. right now we have to wait and look for one entity for a certain report and didn't and then at the end try to bring in altogether. there are issues related two culturally specific information communication system. for example, one-third of the navajo population speaks navajo language. this means that someone has to take the time to translate information. once the information is translated then we have to disseminate the information and the available mass media that we have is local radio station, it is very useful. we have a radio station, very

use all and other produce stations in border towns and then we also had to resort to some of the staff within it now home bioterrorism program and we have one individual, a lady that was very good and translating information. she has her own way of translation and coming up with good messages and she was saying something like -- [speaking in native tongue] -- what does that mean cranks' she was saying you are out there listening to me and i take this time to do your own prevention. while you are washing your hands, perhaps you can sing happy birthday. [laughter] that is very effective and so i

say whenever i get questions about h1n1 i say and this young lady's name is ileana, i say, well, this into a lean man, she says everything is okay then everything will be o.k. so that is the kind of individuals that we have in the communities and these of the kind of individuals that are very rare and they can help us to communicate directly with our constituents and our customers. the other thing that i wanted to mention is due to the remoteness and the mountainous terrain, than that of a pot -- the nomination -- uses mobile telephones and seller of phones and a lot of times to get into remote areas and you may have a cellphone but it doesn't always work. just as i describe to you over the weekend i went 18 miles north of up by 40. once i got 10 miles away from

interstate 40 my cell phone was useless. no communication. i also wanted to know there are issues related to lack of out of quote technical resources and may need to adequately prepare for an emergency, and the outbreaks of any infectious diseases. a lot of times we don't have the real sources. have indian health services as a primary health care provider put in as well documented in his only son and a half the amount that is needed so a lot of times in these cases is indian home services within the have the resources are not that have to become part of our partner so that we also have some existing emergency response structures that may have to be activated but most of the time there are not properly funded so we have to resort to the existing

resources and honor to make it functional let me mention some of the strategy is that help us prepare for the response to h1n1. fortunately the nomination in partnership with the navajo area indian health services in 2006 we did what we call vaccination exercise. the exercise we brought together various governmental agencies including the state, county, law enforcement, a childhood resources and in one day we were able to vaccinate 24,000 people in the span of a hours and this is through the use of 15 distribution sites so with one day of vaccinating 24,000 that in total lead to vaccinating 80,000 people in one year so

that was a very helpful exercise that we did and we repeated the exercise of on. by the timing to the exercise people were vaccinated and able in that one day mack's fascination or able to pick up additional 6,000 but in the end in a given year 2007. able to exceed 80,000 individuals. another thing that we learned was that establish -- we also have begun to use the national incident management system and than by using them for able to utilize this cdc how emergency response and led to the stage, the local government and childhood health directors so in that process while we have these existing protocols and policies, we are able to do less to these policies and protocols and in the process i think we always

learn new things and always trying to make our system is better. so also in the process we are fortunate to have also opening up new doors to other new resources and other technical support. than some of the of opportunities that we seem it again and we hope that h1n1 does not come here again but we have to has has been said by previous speakers, we have to be prepared. the nomination again i am sure this is true for all indian nations, we want to be partners with the states and burners with the counties and also want to make sure that we try to take care of those issues related to a jurisdictions because a lot of times people do get hung up on jurisdictional issues and i think that needs to be dealt with. also need to deal with what can

pertain to cost sharing plans and also need to warm or with plans that can be cornyn in and also have a good public information system. so it's that that we close by saying i do appreciate again for being invited and i think the navajo nation is certainly here along with other indian nations coming here to work with different agencies and the department of health and human services. in particular cdc i think we need to make sure that cdc cannot make sure that all the state agencies contact with all respect of indian nations throughout the country. and then in summary, i think we are prepared if it does occur and then that we have to do the

work involved i hope that we'll get enough resources to augment the health care delivery system and that we know -- g@@rr'% definitely a need for technical assistance and training. i think the last thing is public information is very important. and many times in a country that one size does not for all hands is very important that every

state work with respect to indian tribes and nt -- every in the nation has their own resources and individuals who have the resources that we can be able to mobilize and be able to be a part of the work team. then finally again i applaud the the the problem of health and human services for working on preparing for any possible h1n1 outbreak again but in the process i again want to say keep emphasizing that indian tribes need to be involved and indian tribes are ready to work with you. thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you very much. it is clear that there is a breath of experience and learning and i'm going to open the floor up for questions to

the panelists, but let me start off with the question of my own and that is that the epidemic after this point has affected all of our institutions and i would like to just to think about where the legacy of this response is likely to be when it eventually is over. >> [inaudible] i think the legacy for the initial responses to the public health system has really responded in a tremendous way with all the associated organizations in national governance council has been a really instrumental. we also have a national process that is going on so it is going to require that because we are is a emergency start on the local level. and all the state, local and federal and always in the process of developing any kind

of incident action planning so are the association's like w.h.o. and all the others need to be part of the process of developing any kind of planning that goes and the federal so they can make the good of mind with the local levels because the local house apartments called me and many of them we were able to assuage them from that moving out on us and making sure that they stayed engage with us so it is very important that the federal doctrines translate into common languages that people can understand and appreciate and also comply with. >> having been involved in emergency response planning for several years i think it is always time to engage some key sectors in really coming to terms with what the issues will be of the experience of a real event so i think the real legacy of what happened in new york

city is that we have been able to leverage this experience to bring together other key partners including our emergency management partners and public safety partners as well as critical infrastructure to really think through the issues are begin to rethink the the issues with us hopefully in a more operational and realistic way in the event that we have immersive year pandemic in the fall and island and into that our health care planners who we have been able to engage must then some of the other sectors but there are some key lessons learned that we haven't expected with a surge on our emergency departments and clinics so we expected that, we thought we could minimize it with some public communication and it was more challenging. we learned a lot that will hopefully give us opportunity to engage more broader spectrum of partners especially to deal with continuity of operations that will help with other emergencies as well.

>> good morning again. again as i emphasize i think local involvement is very key and then i think it is very easy for indian tribes to be left out and i think it is very important and also in every indian community there are oil some resources that are unique and then i think they need to be involved, the tribal leaders need to be part of the discussion and again we have always said from the indian community that one size does not that all and have done a number of public campaign such as the work with cms on medicaid and medicare. we have said over and over that indian tribes need to be involved and how you get the message across and then how you do your national campaign.

we are being asked to do something and in the process of disseminating information we have to take that responsibility to break down, to inside information and then tried to get someone that can be able to convey the good information and the right information to all our customers so i think we can be able to establish that partnership early and then be able to be at the table. i think we can go a long ways. thank you. >> thanks, and there are questions from the floor, if you could go to the microphone and introduce yourself that would be great.

>> association of territorial. we talk about some populations but not in a poor and vulnerable population and out like to have them comment on that -- with this outbreak we have many undocumented individuals who feared coming forth for health care because they were afraid of it legal action being taken in based on the active seeking health care. in addition we have many people who work in the service sector and other industries for the have no set time and no benefits and that they don't worth and don't make money and don't eat so we're going to have to deal of that issue if they're going to be able to stay home with their children are they themselves ought to work so the two things i asked you to comment on, one is can you comment on what to the to do to deal with folks who are undocumented so they are not afraid to see care for themselves or their children. every new legal action. secondly how are we going to assist the people who don't have

the benefits which is a large part of the population so they can stay home other children or not go to work themselves? >> both of those are very insightful questions. the undocumented question was very important to us in illinois state because we had 50 migrant camps, people were coming into the area and we had no idea of who was coming into the area. and they are usually followed by a mobile units to provide their medical care so we actually identified their infrastructure for health services and made a link with them but i think you're absolutely right, until that the stigma is removed warren had the ability for us in the federal level to say you are able to treat people without repercussions for their status, we will have trouble with those populations people wanted to

come forward voluntarily so i think it had to be a policy change and within our legal structure that we make the change but also how we deliver services and the community level, on the local level. the second part was i think we also need to talk about how to assist families that are coming in against the healthcare system and i can't afford to participate. when they are taking off from work i think the business community and that is where the leadership comes up and talking to businesses about how to take care of your workers that are valuable to you but are at a disadvantage because they don't have access to health care, how you change your policies and creative ways of dealing with that as far as scheduling and also providing health care of services and house support for children who are ill the future they are treated in a proper

environment so i think those resources and money to the school system and through the health care system needs to come to address that issue really for front and in a short time. we don't have a very long time to have this national model in place. does it require the right paper in requires action really. >> how will briefly comment on the last question because i agree, is a critical issue and when we did a survey is of the closed schools to get a sense of what people who were supposed to be staying home, there is a percentage of even high school kids who end knowledge that was schools are closing and a rail there were still going to work so getting that message about staying home if you are ill is a critical johns especially for in more severe pandemic and facilitating that we need to

ensure that all workplaces have policies that our billing to loosen up in the event of a pandemic to allow their workers to stay at home and provide the opportunity for them to work at home so that are not coming to the workplace and i think that responsibility needs to start with government policies of the federal, state and local levels some it is part of our pandemic discussions in the past and appear on an accelerated pandemic planning schedule as well specifically dealing with this issue within government as a month as are private business partners. >> the first american native people, there is always a mention of the treaty rights and also the right to receive services in this country and oftentimes i think it has been raised again at one point they

wanted to use december 2005 there was a model past and had to work on to deal with the need to have a citizenship and identity and. any time that anyone called for assistance from medicaid there was a requirement for the citizenship documentation and and what we learned in the process we hope this doesn't happen again. and is with navajo 17,500 navajo were over 60 years old and over 90% and not have a printer certificates and and even those under 60 including myself did have a birth certificates and we had a challenge to work on which was two really come up with some documentation that would show that we have the right to receive services if we applied for medicaid, for example, so in these kind of discussion and think the hope that we work hard to fully understand it with

indian tribes are at and then fully understand the counties in the states also need to work with us in terms of getting the information corrected. thank you. >> we're going to take these final two questions but i ask for very short questions and answers as well. >> thank you very much, when i heard the panel say this was a dress rehearsal and folks were still tired i was wondering about discussions about strategies for the marathon for public health and our other sectors of the local level, the federal level one thing that could help would be relieved of the state employees that are on federal funds. use 5% of their time for emergencies and may be expanding that for the marathon and the strategy but i was wondering about local and state strategies of. >> , okay, for the state's

strategy of one of the things we are looking at is merely one of the lessons learned from the spring and was how to rotate your staff and ensure that you're appropriately covering times and that your focus is in the right place as far as testing. a lot of the energy went into doing a lot of testing initially and that filicide because we started telling people not to come in for testing. it to stay home. also the cdc been a very good statement about air travel here it is already here so why are we comply with our airports. those things helped us to refocus our energies and move our staffing in the correct direction and is jim it correctly, but all the states are facing cutbacks right now, all the states are facing layoffs and and think that those things cannot happen in the public health sector and education sector especially with this happening now and homeland security sector. this is the time it is critical,

we don't know what will happen in the fall, these areas cannot afford to have cuts. if anything we should try to increase because in of the staffing shortage which pre-existing me actual pandemic itself. >> i will make a very brief comment which is something we instituted in new york city was a flame out or burn out policy and i want to emphasize how born in is to take care of ourselves during these things in the town for people working too many days in a row and to many hours and there's actually a limit on how many days to give work without taking a break. we had our mental health, part of the department of health and york city, actively doing outreach to make people taking breaks they needed. and having those plans in place ahead of time as well as a rotating staff mike knightley -- and there was and as many people who rotate through. >> i just wanted to make a few

comments. in these to the navajo nation and i think this is probably too for and that indian nations, we have what is, a navajo nation pandemic influenza plan that we're working on. every time that we deal with certain incident it does get updated and i think in some committees there is always a need to get some technical assistance to do that capacity so that is very important. and then the there is always a need of technical assistance. thank you. >> just a final question. really quick with dancers. >> out of my 27 questions, for the people of wisconsin, we know that we don't have the surge capacity of skills, infectious disease, epidemiologist are emergencies like this one. we also have a chronically unaddressed massive epidemic that is ongoing in this country

of sexually transmitted diseases. could we perhaps look at cdc level and the state level and beyond a hiring more communicable disease epidemiologist to work on the as to the epidemic and keep in reserve part massive emergencies like this fall? >> yes,, yes, yes. [laughter] but i also wanted to thank the the federal government and the speed and in the amount of interest, secretary sebelius and secretary napalitano come mcginnis bunning but there was a reinstitution of immunization of our public trust i think in the spring as well and i think we need to stay on that pathway. doing things like that making sure we have is that for epidemiology and those things are moving in that direction. >> i am actually going to let that be the final comment. i would say that as cdc people

from all over the agency were working on a response. are limited and i think that managing wish to have and the short-term to the highest priority areas is keen a matter what the response. i want to thank our panelists and the audience for their @@@@@@@@>0>018ññpaaañ

that they need to respect congress and the wishes of congress and this better not be a pattern of any kind. i realize they are in delicate negotiations going on and they don't want to jeopardize those negotiations and neither do we but frankly, i think they could have come and we would have understood that certain things couldn't be said so i just want to make it clear for the record that if this is some kind of pattern it will not be tolerated by me as chairman or by anybody else on this subcommittee.

we intend to have the state department respond positively to less when we ask for their appearance, and i want everyone to take note that we expect them to appear when we invite them in the future. i and many other people are deeply concerned with the recent events in honduras, and we've called today's hearing to focus our attention on the crisis. i issued a statement shortly after the events happened in honduras, and let me say before delving into the details on but like to state very clearly that it's my strong belief that the military should not have proposed president zelaya and whisked him out of the country. we can discuss the events of to the removal of president zelaya and i intend to do just that. i think there are many good

points to make of all sides and we have excellent panelists who will testify on different aspects of the situation and will agree or disagree with each other. but in the end our hemisphere cannot tolerate what is essentially a military coup. we don't want to go back to the bad old days when that was commonplace in our hemisphere. and i think that this certainly has the remnants of it and is not something that we should tolerate. with that being said, as you say on the other side of the coin, president zelaya's efforts to hold the referendum on whether to create a constituent assembly did change the honduran constitution is also very troubling. it's my understanding that the honduran constitution contains several clauses which cannot be altered. and among those provisions are those limiting the terms of presidents. according to one interpretation, even trying to amend these

clauses or proposing their reform automatically and immediately ended manuel zelaya's presidency for at least ten years. as for me i am not a scholar of the honduran constitution and will not even pretend to be an arbiter of ponder and law ortiz calls this. that's for the courts and institutions of honduras to decide. but as an observer of the region and having watched the run-up to the recent crisis, i think it was clear that virtually all major hundred and political institutions and actors opposed president zelaya's efforts. not only the supreme court, commerce and zelaya's own attorney general against him i'm told even members of his own political party and influential catholic church or hostile to zelaya's efforts to change the constitution. the ..

there are negotiations going on. bresson obama went to the summit of the americas and many of the people in the committee and myself for their pledging that the united states would be a true partner of countries in the region and would treat their neighbors with respect. i think the administration is

taking a giant step forward in fulfilling that commitment with its excellent diplomacy in mediation efforts on the contouring crisis. our administration, the obama administration condemn the removal of president zelaya a.m. call that illegal. they stood with our partners in the hemisphere by supporting a resolution the organization of american states calling for president zelaya's restoration to the office and secretary clinton has just started in mediation efforts led by the nobel peace prize winner winning president from custer rica, oscar arias with a strong diplomatic effort. presidents elia and the fact the president nicolette vee have begun meeting under the auspices of president arias and custer regev so i am glad that the secretary of state and her team are navigating the diplomatic orders at this time. and i hope that a compromise

will come about. however, as much as i defend the oas and ewald no yesterday on the house floor i strongly opposed removing money from the oas, i must question the expelling of honduras from the oas. i am a strong supporter of the oas and as i said i spoke on the floor of the house of representatives last night on the floor, talking about not removing money from the oas but i am concerned about their actions to suspend honduras. i think they have to be consistent in what they do and at a time when we dropped the suspension of cuba and we suspend honduras, i think it sends an inconsistent message to the region of the world. i think consistency is important with consistency you have credibility. i must also say i am increasingly troubled by efforts throughout the hemisphere to

change constitution's so that leaders of certain countries can stay in power after their term's and. i see a pattern here in many countries and i think it is a dangerous pattern and it is not a pattern we should support. i think we need to shine a bright light on the dangers of this anti-democratic trend and so i say "the oas rightly condemned the removal of president zelaya i believe it should also criticized the respect of the constitutionalism and the normal transfer of democratic power. if the constitution in any country says that a president cannot run for a second term i think that suspending the constitution as was done in many different countries is a troubling trend. so, i would like to conclude the same way i began. i believe what took place in honduras was wrong and deserve to be condemned but the

complicated story doesn't begin or end there. it is my hope that this hearing will drop out many of the issues surrounding the removal of president zelaya which ed color in depth to our understanding of the crisis with the hope that such a series of events will not repeat itself and with that i would like to invite my friend, the ranking member mr. mack to give his opening statement. >> thank you mr. chairman. i want to thank you for holding this hearing today. i also want to thank the witnesses for making yourself available and being here and we are very interested to hear what you have to say and to maybe pick your brain alves so thank you for being here. let me start off by saying this. this was not a military coup. and if somebody, if there is any fault here it is on mr. zelaya. he is the one that at every

turn, turned his back on the people of honduras and his own constitution, which he pledged to uphold. as we hold this hearing parted from all sides are meeting in closed the rica to negotiate a peaceful and democratic resolution but it is important to look at the whole picture. who are the main players, how did we get here? and who is meddling from the outside? mr. chairman we have mr. zelaya, a man who refuse to listen to the honduran supreme court, a man who refuse to listen to the honduran attorney general, a man who refuse to listen to the honduran congress. mr. chairman this is a man who tried to undermine the legislature, the judiciary, the attorney general, the human rights. i am interested to hear what our panel has to say on this.

not only that mr. chairman, this is a man that when told no by the courts took it upon himself to storm the military base in seas and distribute ballots for an illegal referendum. bellock that hugo chavez fingerprints are all over. it seems to me that more, the more we look at mr. zelaya the more we find a man who believes he is above the law, untouchable in clearly a man who has no respect for democracy. i also look forward to hearing from our panel on the links between hugo chavez and mr. zelaya. since he was exiled mr. zelaya has been flown around the hemisphere on venezuelan jets. the ballots were going to be distributed for the illegal referendum were printed and flown from venezuela. for the more there are reports mr. zelaya has been involved in drug smuggling from venezuela and other places in south america. also there is little doubt that

mr. zelaya violated article ccxxxix of the honduran constitution which clearly states anyone who violates this provision must immediately cease the discharge of their duties. as the parties negotiate inco's the rica i want to make one last point. i believe the obama administration should be commended for making a renewed commitment to latin america. but at the same time by calling this a coup, and by early statements insisting on the reinstatement of mr. zelaya the administration owls dance with the lights of chavez, morals and ortega and not the honduran people. well we all want a peaceful and democratic resolution now is not the time-- now is the time to stand for freedom and with the honduran people in the fight against the tyranny of the bolivarian evolution. mr. chairman thank you for

holding this hearing and i look forward to hearing from our panelists later. mr. chairman i just want to say that yesterday on the floor, you had the opportunity to speak against the motion to recommit, talking about the oas and honduras. i have a different opinion. i believe the oas is a dangerous organization that is not, that is not fighting for freedom or democracy, but instead standing in the way and giving an opportunity for people like hugo chavez and others to use the oas to undermine democracy in the western hemisphere. i hope as we move down the road we can have a hearing that is more focused on the oas so we can have a lengthy debate on whether or not the oas is still an organization that should be

supported by united states. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. mack and you know i am always open to-- because we have seven gary excellent panelists and i want to hear from them i'm going to restrict the opening statements to two minutes for each person and we will go down the line and i will start with mr. meeks. >> thank you mr. chairman. i will try to do it in two minutes. first of all i think we have come a long way in the united states from where we were in 2002 where there was a coup d'etat in venezuela and within 48 hours we supported the coup d'etat government. we have got to make those improvements and i think we have made that with this administration. we clearly cannot turn back the hands of times are ahead the opportunity to talk to several heads of states including president area isoo said we could not allow coup d'etat cosson this is the government of other areas to try to figure out that we make sure we don't turn

back the hands of time and that is what this is about so i am as nervous as the chairman is that the hands of time do not turn back. whether mr. zelaya has done whatever he has done i don't believe that the military has the right to come in and pull him out. it would have been the equivalent i would think of, at the time when president nixon, who had violated laws in the constitution of the united states had he not conducted a process in which he would have been impeached, of having in the middle of the night the united states army going into the white house and taking president nixon out and having him exile. clearly there is a violation but there is something that has to be done within the democratic process to make sure that those who committed a violation in that office is democratically removed. also i think it is also

important that when you talk about the oas and in this particular situation that there are 33 nations and we talk about democracy and it took them, it was over 24 hours in washington d.c. working and trying to come together as an organization in the democratic process to decide what to do with honduras and it is not just the united states acting in a unilateral manner as the president has said that the united states acting in conjunction with others in the region to make the difference. we have got serious concerns here. i want to hear the witnesses and i wish i had more time but i am being gaveled already by my friend the chair and i will yield back. >> thank you mr. meeks. >> i will be very brief in my remarks but i do want to make a few comments and look forward to the testimony. i agree with the ranking member that this was not a military coup. this was ordered by the supreme court. the president was in violation

of its own constitution. he dáb%b+ connection between venezuela and honduras? and with that i will yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. mccaul. >> thank you mr. chairman.

the unfolding events in honduras are both shocking and frustrating on one hand you of a president who overstepped his constitutional bounds and on the other hand you have a military that-- and our government is condemning the military removal of president zelaya look at the company wiki. we are supporting a man who plotted to hold an illegal vote and circumvent the constitution. in the ongoing debate whether the president's zelaya at the then democratically or if it was the military who acted on democratically. although it appears they are both at fault it is important to remember that just a few weeks ago president zelaya levee movement to reinvent cuba into the organization of american states. the oas resolution did not mention the democratic charter and now calling upon the hunters in the international community to uphold this charter. these events make me series we

question the stability of democracy not only in honduras but let america. governments throughout the region have made remarkable progress since the days of the military coup and the oppressive regimes of the actions and honduras severely obstruct this progress. unfortunately this is not the first time we have witnessed such unchecked power. it is clear the democratic principles of continue to be at risk in this hemisphere and i would like to thank the panelists that are here and i look forward to hearing what you have to say. >> thank you mr. sires. >> i appreciate the chairman's disappointment that the demonstration is a wall today. congress has the right and obligation of duty to know what the administration is or is not doing during this crisis. the world is slowly waking to the reality that what it first might have looked like a military use a reputation of democracy, courtesy of very

sloppy news reporting was actually the combination of the democratic process, a process that began months before. the branches of government of honduras, the supreme court, congress and the military perform just as they were intended to buy the wise writers of the honduras constitution. mr. zelaya was removed from office for is unconstitutional and illegal attempts to alter the constitution of honduras for purely selfish reasons. latin american dahr really sick and tired of presidents violating the rule of law to ensure their own presidencies in perpetuity. article to 39 of the honduran constitution explicitly says and i quote, no citizen who has already served as head of the executive branch can be president or vice president in more over the constitution makes clear that anyone who tries to alter the term limits of the office of the president is guilty of treason. the honduran supreme court has stated that the military acted on its orders and the honduran

congress overwhelmingly passed a decree removing presidents zelaya from office and replacing him with the president of the congress. the military has not retain power. upcoming presidential elections continue to move forward on schedule. finally, the service of the argument is what happened in honduras was a coup but that view in my opinion meltzer-- melts under scrutiny. rather democracy in the rule of law triumphed over mr. olson-- i congratulate the people of ponders for their foresight and for their courage to take action in support of the rule of law. i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. smith. mr. green. >> thank you mr. chairman for holding the hearing in coming from texas and our relationship with both mexico and central america and latin america this is very important as we have a

number of honduran americans live in our district ago when president zelaya announced he would hold a referendum asking voters whether they would want and assembly to establish the constitution the situation in honduras started to deteriorate. the issue culminated on june 28 will when military surrounded the residence and flem two cherika which hours before the polls would open. president sub-- zelaya has been denied entry into honduran congress approved the suspending of a number of bill of rights is using writes diet the concern about. while i don't agree with president zelaya, the restoration of democracy is critical for instability and i applaud the organizations like the oas and asd wherefor quickly condemning the honduran military action but i also know that we need to have impartial

negotiation and i'm glad secretary clinton announced former president arias from custer rica will be that mediator, and have democracy restored and like my colleagues on both sides, we see that in our administration and our hemisphere they returned to the strong manahan military government in usurping the constitutional authority whether it be in honduras or other parts of the hemisphere including venezuela and i would hope that we would see our country providing the leadership for democracy and not necessarily just for whoever happens to have a strong power at that time and i yield back my time. >> thank you mr. green. mr. burton, a former ranking member and chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman. first of all, i talked to some people at the state department yesterday, and they told me that they wanted to give the central

american immigration headed by mr. arias a chance to resolve this by getting all the facts and i think the facts are now clear of course but nevertheless they wanted to give him time and that was the reason they said they did not want to appear today. i disagree with that. he should be here but nevertheless that was the reason they gave. i would like to reiterate what the ranking member said and i thought i said it extremely well and that is that the arrest warrants was issued by the supreme court then ordered the armed services to arrest mr. zelaya, and in the united states if an arrest warrant is issued, the police go out and arrest them. and they put him in handcuffs and take him to jail. in this particular case, a military was told to do it and they did it, and so when everybody talks about this being a military coup i just don't get it. there was an arrest warrant

issued by the supreme court. the president had violated the constitution and had not paid any attention to anybody that was giving him the proper advice, so i don't see that this was a military coup and with that i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. burton. ms. giffords. >> i'm going to make it brief because i know we will have those soon and we have a distinguished panel here that i think it is important to hear from. >> thank you. mr. fortenberry. >> thank you mr. chairman for convening this hearing to help us come to terms with the developments in honduras and understand the dynamics and potential outcomes of this very seriously the meth crisis unfolding there. i believe it is vitally important to take a deep breath here and simply look at the facts, understand the objective truth about honduras's cybil

democratic constitutions as well as the scale and scope of abuses of power contributed to mr. zelaya. i would also implored to our panel to assess the policy and the judgments made by the administration bus bar in this crisis, the oas as well as other key and regional as well as international players in this situation so that mr. chairman i yield back. >> thank you. mr. paine. >> thank you very much mr. chairman for calling this hearing. i think that as you have indicated i think it is a bad trend when we have people try to alter the constitution of countries where, i mean to extend the terms of office. however by the same token i can't see where anyone can say that if you take somebody out with an army and guns, put them on a plane and as he tries to come back, he left the military

at the airport saying if the company closer we will shoot you down. that is a military something. it is like a duck, you know, so it is a very complicated situation here, and you know, i think that because venezuela was supportive of the president there, it doesn't mean that we should therefore condemned that country. if we start doing that, we will have to look at every country in the world and who they associate with them that certainly wouldn't make any sense so i think it is a complicated situation and i hope that we can get to the bottom of it as previous member mentioned. we have had presidents who didn't take the advice of their attorney general and as a matter of fact mr. peabody, the attorney general was fired by the president back in the nixon

days because he wouldn't give them the judgment that he wanted. i am not saying it was right to do it here nor was it right to do it there, so this is really a complicated situation and i hope we can come up with a solution, but once again in the african union when a country is taken over by the military, that country is suspended from the african union. they do not tolerate because once that happens here it will happen there and have been at the next place and you will have that way to take the president's. >> thank you. mr. bilirakis. >> thank you mr. chairman. this hits home with me because my hundred american constituents are particularly concerned that president zelaya was slowly stripping away the rule of law in honduras. they feared that hondurans would turn away from its democratically elected and

constitutionally based institutions and evolved into hugo chavez type of autocratic state. hi think what is particularly disconcerting for me is the fact that no american official at the u.s. embassy in honduras or the state department has spoken with the current president of honduras. the obama administration has made it a feature of their diplomacy efforts to listen to all sites and it even displayed a willingness to talk with enemies of the united states. and yet the administration has refused to speak with the institutions in honduras like the supreme court, the congress or even the president to fully understand what happened and why mr. zelaya has been removed. i look forward to hearing from the witnesses as to why the administration continues to ignore the will of the contouring people and their rule of law. and what can be done to facilitate regular order in

honduras. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. chairman and i want to welcome our witnesses and just let me say a couple of things very quickly. a few is a coup. a military coup is a military coup and i am disturbed by as talking about beginning to set new standards for what constitutes a military coup. just as i was opposed to the coup d'etat and haiti which the united states enabled then supported under the bush administration, and that is what happened, i don't see how we can continue to allow these coup d'etat's to take place and get away with it, so i say to you today, to the committee and to you, our witnesses that for me and for many of us, a coup is an unacceptable way to resolve any disputes and i am glad that the international community has been

swift and then firm in condemning the military's actions and i too am disappointed that our adminstration is not here today but i am pleased that they are moving forward to try and bring parties together to resolve this and hopefully send out a message that military coup's are an acceptable regardless of the circumstances because i think that we are walking down a slippery slope when we began to set new standards for what we consider military coups. >> thank you. let me have everybody make an opening statement and then the panelist. mr. rohrabacher. >> a few is a coup and what happened in honduras is not a coup. a few is when the military replaces a democratic government with the military leader. what happened in honduras is a victory for democratic government and the rule of law over could deal with some. it was not a coup d'etat but a defeat of a left-wing coup led

by a corrupt elitist who haã#7 we don't need latin america sliding back, whether it is a left-wing or right-wing in terms of what it reflects. that should've been left behind a long time ago, and his defeat,

and the defeat of that power grab as i say no matter how it was accomplished, it is a great victory for democracy in central america and latin america in the long run. we all know that. we all know what he was trying to do. we should be happy and applaud him that he would stop from that horrible power grab which would have ended real democracy in his country. >> thank you. mr. delahunt. >> i thank the gentleman and i don't think you can put a shine on a sneaker. i mean, and sense tells you that it is a coup whether it is a military coup, but it certainly was an unconstitutional removal. you know, i am just concerned about not what is happening in this room and this hearing, but the message that is being received all over latin america at this moment in time.

what you are hearing of course is this is about hugo chavez. well, i want my colleagues particularly my friends on the other side of the aisle, to stand with felipe calderon, to stand with alvaro uribe, to stand with the president of chile, to stand with all of the other democratically elected presidents in latin america. to have condemned this, who are trying to pass-- i never realized how many experts we have by the way on the honduran constitution. i mean it is amazing. there must be a class somewhere. i haven't taken it yet so i have to a knowledge my own ignorance but of course it is a coup. who are these people? i don't know who they are. i do know however that the current provisional president attempted the same thing that

president zelaya did in 1985, but it wasn't a peep out of this institution at the time. he attempted to-- of some present and in the '80s by two years according to a report. i find that interesting but that is irrelevant to this. i am sure some of the people are well-intentioned but i did note and i think it is important that, and i haven't heard outrage expressed by anyone, including members on the other side about the statements of the provisional foreign minister whom they had to dump, but let me tell you what he had to say about the president of the united states. ..

testimony to five minutes apiece. you do not have to read your statements if you don't want to. you can ask that they be submitted into the record and they will be as if they had been repeated, and you can just summarize and that might be better. i will leave it up to the

witnesses. let me mention michael schiffer is vice president for policy at the inter-american dialogue. pérez-cadalso is foreign minister and supreme court justice and currently serves as professor of international law at honduras's national university. welcome. join olson as director of the washington office on latin america. welcome. cynthia arnson is director of latin american program at the woodrow wilson international center for scholars. we welcome you. lonnie davis is a personal friend of mine, but partner here representing the honduras chapter of the latin american business council. welcome. and sarah stevens is executive director of the center for democracy and the americas. we welcome you and last but not least of reich is president of reich associates and secretary

of state for western hemisphere affairs. welcome. we will start with mr. shifter. >> thank you free much mr. chairman. i would like to submit my statement for the record. i want to commend you for holding this hearing. the honduras situation poses a critical test for the u.s. government and for the hemisphere. what happened on june 28th in honduras rupture in the space order, space process that i think was properly censored by the united states atmospheric international community. president zelaya has more than his share of blame for provoking the crisis to begin with by dividing the supreme court and the congress and all of the legal procedures that have followed before his ousting. but the forced removal from

honduras was a clear violation of the constitution and basic space norms. having rightly condemned what happened, the main task was to calm the tensions and try to work out a solution. i am not sure opting for a punishing stand so quickly to issue an ultimatum for the return of president zelaya and suspending ponder dress was the wisest course. the attempted on successful return of president zelaya last sunday was particularly counterproductive. as a result all sides became more entrenched in their positions. today this crisis has moved to the face of negotiation on to president arias. this is encouraging but caution is in order. the first day showed this is going to be difficult and may take time to work out. there's tremendous bitterness and distrust between the two parties.

still, one can imagine alliance of the formula that will hopefully be agreed to. it is crucial conditions at honduras be fair and credible elections now scheduled for the end of november. it is welcome that the united states is discreetly supporting this initiative announced by secretary of state went in last tuesday. the honduras crisis has post to difficult challenges for the united states. the first concerns had a deal with the interruption of space process in the region balancing legality and legitimacy against maintaining social peace and governability on the ground in honduras. the second challenge involves finding an effective multilateral approach that engages with latin american partners while also being active in helping shape a favorable outcome. the idea is to try to resist the temptations to impose a solution or dictate a solution but alternatively not to withdraw

and be passive either. in general i think the obama administration struck the right balance of both challenges. it was important to bear in mind from the beginning how decisions that followed principal stand of the coup, the suspension of ponder dysphoric sable would either exacerbate or diminish the polarization which is after all the root cause of the crisis. this is a case for combining principal with pragmatism. the u.s. has now seen as an important and honest broker in the region. as i said the oas took the right stamp on the crisis but might have waited and explore other measures before resorting to such confrontational response which did not work and in fact seemed to only have hardened positions on all sides. the oas might have also tried to anticipate and prevent the heated situation before it reached a boiling point. alert mechanisms are difficult and sensitive questions about

sovereignty. but this is an essential function appropriate for regional body at the oas. head-on collision of honduras had been building for some time and an average of have been made to diffuse the mounting tensions. looking ahead even though president arias is taking speed of the oas should sort the efforts to reach a compromise and honduras. with this crisis has done is bring the focus on the question of double standards and hypocrisy applied to different situations in latin america. it's not that the oas shouldn't have reacted to the situation but it should have reacted to others. the oas has been too passive and silent dealing with ruptures in the space order and in other situations. there needs to be a way to focus on improving the inter-american democratic charter and the way it is applied and implemented in latin america. one idea is to not restrict the

use of the charter to the executive branch the extent to other branches of government and opposition. this could have worked in the honduras case to head off the venture will too. unfortunately public reps and defiance of space norms and institutions are too common in latin america so the charter and member oas governments need to take a disturbing tendency in to account. finally it would be surprising if the united states wouldn't have to deal with similar situations in latin america in the future. the region is on settled at least several parts of the region and i hope this case shows the wisdom of working in concert with regional partners to seek solutions that reflect common sense and pragmatism but are anchored in the rule of law. i look forward to questions. thank you. >> the gentleman's time is expired. mr. pérez-cadalso.

>> pull the microphone a little closer. >> chairman engel, ranking member mac and the other distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me today. i will not provide a summary of my prepared statement which i request to be included in its entirety in the record. my name is guillermo pérez-cadalso. i served as foreign affairs as the supreme court justice and as the president of the national university of honduras. today however i come before you with a title of concern number and citizen and not as a government representative. i have spent this week as part of an ad hoc by a first delegation of other concerned honduran citizens visiting with many members of congress.

while we have made progress in creating greater understanding of the history and context of what has happened in my country i want to share with you some facts and observations that have been lost or confused in the intense media coverage. one, the military is not in charge of honduras. the constitutional order of honduras remains intact. our government continues to be led by a civilian executive branch, a duly elected congress and our judicial branch guided by our 1982 constitution and the rule of law. indeed, it was the proper application of the constitution and presidential succession that initiated the recent events in honduras. number two, many confused the

timing of key defense. for example, mr. zelaya was charged with crimes against form of government treason, abuse of authority and user a patient of power and supreme court ordered his arrest before he was taken out of the country. number three, they're has been a failure to separate the issue of mr. zelaya's removal from the country versus his proper t-mobile from the president's office according to the constitution and as a result of the very serious criminal charges against him. i can only speculate as to what the military did and why. taking mr. zelaya out of the country could have been the result of a terrible dilemma. it is possible the military which was properly ordered to arrest mr. zelaya by the honduran supreme court to uphold the constitution thought it would be more prudent to take him out of the country rather of

and hold him in custody in honduras and risk greater civil supreme electoral council and the human rights commission are all agreed that mr. zelaya broke the law. others to agree include four out of five of the political parties

representing more than 90% of the conference. including mr. zelaya's own party. many labor unions, the private sector, and the catholic and evangelical and other protestant churches. meanwhile, tens of thousands of hondurans have marched for peace and democracy and to express support for the constitutional succession including more than 50,000 people on joy third alone. before concluding here are several faults and hopes for the future. first, the facilitation of the mediation by president is welcomed and we praise secretary of state hillary clinton's in dorset of the dialogue process which would work toward a phased solution that includes fact finding. we also appreciate that the u.s. government joined last week with other governments in the organization of american states and advising mr. zelaya that it wasn't the right time to travel

back to honduras. second, i believe that the oas didn't live up to the spirit of its charter in this instance. it was too quick to accuse, too soon to judge and too eager to condemn. the oas could have acted to prevent the situation but sadly stood silent in the face of months of misconduct by mr. zelaya. after the constitutional succession occurred, the o.a.s. did not engage in collaborative fact-finding and if it had done so, the burden to host the dialogue would not have fallen on president arias. third, we hope that the interim government earnest efforts to engage in dialogue are proof enough that the restrictions and credit flows from international financial institutions should be lifted and that bilateral and multilateral cooperation in eight programs should continue. these restrictions only exacerbate the effect of the international economic crisis on

the honduras and the honduran poor and shortchange u.s. on work and efforts to combat drug trafficking and organized crime. finally, the dialogue can succeed if both sides to refrain from personal, emotional reactions and stick to constructive discussions about the issues. each side can find common ground and solutions if there is a willingness to act in good faith in the higher interest of our country. thank you, and i will gladly take your questions. >> thank you. ms. olson. >> thank you mr. chairman for the invitation to speak today and i would request my written statement be submitted for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> thank you. i must say i have been paid to watch the conflict playing out and honduras the past few weeks. it is a country i love and i spent the formative years of my professional life. i'm not to going to spend much

time talking about the fact of what happened. as there will be a lot of that. i would like to make love observations. one, it isn't only the u.s. who identified this as a coup. every country in the hemisphere has identified this as a coup so it's not something we are standing alone on. second, it seems like there was plenty violating of the law went around. on all sides. and those are important issues but again, i think there was plenty of it happening. also back to the to issue for the second. when the military takes the president and his jammies and put them on a flight out of the country that's a coup. if it walks like a duck and talks like a dock at the dock. let me also say a few things about what the situation is not. it's not, it's not about and no

matter how much president chavez might want it to be or his opponents might want it to be it's not about venezuela. it's also not about liking zelaya or how popular he is. if that were the standard of former president of peru never would have made it to the end of his term after his approval rating bottomed out at about 7%. while the immediate crisis is around zelaya's concern there's more fundamental ongoing political crisis in honduras. a crisis in the party system. many poor people don't bother to vote. during the choice between parties as meaningless. over the last 20 years of space transitions they have done little to address the political and economic marginal station experienced by of hondurans. i would like to say a few things about the administration's handling of the situation. i think that it was good. it was swift to defend -- it was swift to condemn the coup.

a decision to use the oas and its diplomatic efforts to address the conflict was a welcome change from our historic interventions in latin america which are well remembered in the region. the administration had talked about changing the u.s. government's would suffer and die and working through multilateral institutions and in this case i think they walked the walk. that said the days following the coup were riddled with mixed messages from the state department about whether a coup had actually occurred. i am not sure if the state department lawyers have yet made the determination. the issue seems to have been the administration wanted to use aid as leverage to get the two sides to the table, and noble goal. but law is clear u.s. aid to a government must be suspended if there is to. if the military sending a president into exile in his pajamas doesn't qualify then what does?

i want to leave you with one quote from a high fee state department press briefing i was following the past two weeks, and the responses about this issue and section 7008, the coup language and for assistance act, their statements were incredibly convoluted. on the sixth of this month, the press spokesman at the state department had this to say. we are suspending as a matter of as a policy matter assistance programs we would be legally required to terminate if the events and honduras were found to have triggered section 7008. as congress moves forward to rewrite foreign assistance act i would suggest you consider further clarify and section 7008, the coup plotters. defining what should be suspended and process by which the suspension is determined. i would also suggest making it clear military assistance provided through the defense department and all through the foreign assistance act should be suspended as well.

being pushy washy about applying 7,008 for well over a week after the coup i think's it's a bad precedent. on the role of the oas, generally the oas is a fairly easy sport. but it is -- this is the kind of situation that makes clear the need for the oas. the immediate aftermath of the to no other body could have dealt with this crisis. a unilateral intervention on the part of the united states or say venezuela would have been disastrous. the fact that governments and of all political stripes were unified in the condemnation of a coup and suspension of honduras from the o.a.s. did two things. made clear no matter how many people dislike the president comes are no longer accepted in the region and it also helped push the crisis towards mediation. another critical role the away as played the last week was

monitoring human rights. in american fashion on human rights followed up on reports of violence compiled detailed lists were missing and monitored restrictions on freedom of press and association. in conclusion, there is a mediation process now in place and i think we should all be supportive of president arias as the process moves forward. and there can be opportunity increases. the question is will the end result of the mediation b a limping along of democracy until the next election or real introspection on hillsides about the more fundamental crisis of honduran democracy and existing political parties. thank you. >> thank you. dr. arnson. >> thank you very much. >> political loser. >> for this invitation. i would also like to ask my remarks be submitted for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> i welcome the subcommittee's

focus on central america, a continuation of the historic role the subcommittee played during the central american war in the 1980's and subsequent resolution in the 1990's. as the opening statements demonstrate, mostly by the members of the subcommittee as well as members of this panel, every crisis and every conflict reflects deeply contrasting narrative's regarding relevant facts. but i will attempt to do in the short time i have is not so much to rehash those facts but perhaps to provide a broader context for understanding these disparate realities. the prices of government reflected in the coup against president zelaya has both proximate and deeper antecedence. the proximate cause as we have heard several times this morning was zelaya's insistence that the honduran conagra's as well as a supreme court considered

unconstitutional. the endgame of the referendum would have been to permit changing the constitution for zelaya to extend his term and eventually one supposes to convene a constituent assembly to draft a constitution. should these changes have taken place honduras would indeed have embarked on a path similar to those taken in venezuela, bolivia, ecuador and to lesser extent or earlier and nicaragua where each elected presidents have spearheaded process these of constitutional reform that a road checks and balances, strengthened the power of the executive branch and create alternative participatory mechanisms for the exercise of so-called popular democracy. apart from the immediate sequence of events the honduran crisis has deeper roots. they can be found precisely in the weaknesses and limitations that make the populace temptation in latin america not only attractive but also

feasible. the weakness of the ponder and democratic institutions, the inadequacy of mechanisms of representation and the failure of ponder's economic growth and international insertion in the last several years to overcome the country's endemic poverty and equality. the coup and the military role in throwing zelaya out of the country reflect the honduran political system's inherent weakness in the absence of mechanisms and a legal framework to resolve political conflict through political means. overcoming this basic crisis of governance must be in a central feature of any long-term and enduring solution to the current and highly unstable and pass. the acceptance of president arias as a meter is extremely positive even though the events of the last few days have shown that this will not be an easy

mediation. president arias has brought credibility in the region as well as world recognized experience and brokering peace. and i think it is worth mentioning and underscoring the central american peace plan he devised in the 1980's link to the end of civil war to an internal space reforms as an essential ingredient of peace. the obama administration i believe has acted appropriately and even add broadly in response to the crisis. they have honored their commitments at the summit of the americas to work in partnership and seek multilateral solutions to regional problems. the support for the efforts of the oas and now for president arias -- partnership over unilaterally. i also believe that the obama administration has the appropriately restrained and prudent with respect to the elimination of u.s. economic aid

in response to the coup. the example of haiti should stand as a sober reminder of the harsh economic -- the consequences that harsh economic sanctions against a desperately poor country can have. i'd like to conclude by saying the ponder increases should serve as a wake-up call to the extent that it might still be needed the despite huge advances in electoral democracy in latin america over the last two decades and scope of central conclusion remain deeply flawed and at times fundamentally compromised. supporting the capacity of space institutions and foster and strategies for inclusive, inclusion regrowth remain the central challenges even more urgent at a time of economic hardship and reversal. thank you. >> thank you. mr. davis? >> thank you mr. chairman and ranking member mac.

i would first like to say that it is a pleasure to be here in the presence of friends on both sides of the aisle. i see congressman delahunt who i knew before his hair was gray and is a great public servant and i see congressman dan burton who at some point in my past career i was an adversary but also a friendly, always civil, and of course my friend chris smith, who i consider a very close personal friend and chairman engel and i happen to be personal friends. and the reason i wanted to start that way is that this issue calls for bipartisanship, calls for civility and calls for dialogue. and i represent a client so i am not speaking for myself. there are days on television when i was speaking for myself

but i am speaking on behalf of the honduran council and i would like justice pérez-cadalso all i am here to talk about solutions as our great president reminds us looking forward rather than looking backward. and i believe chairman engel and ranking member mac have essential agreement on to things. one is mr. zelaya violated the law. there is no doubt, facts are facts well. with all due respect to my panelist know, there wasn't a lot of lawbreaking going on. supreme court voted 15-0 that mr. zelaya broke the law. that included eight members of his political party elected justices. the congress, 124-for inclusion of members of his political party voted he violated the law. his own attorney general, the human rights commissioner that is as independent of the government as the gao has

supported the finding that he had to be removed from office because he violated the constitution with a self executing calls that says if you try to extend your term you are automatically removed from the presidency. now having said that, my clients believe looking back with the wisdom of hindsight it could have been done differently. that night that the army decided to wis can out of the country and i am not afraid to say with the wisdom of hindsight it probably should have been done differently. as long as those of you, and i know congressman delahunt shares that view are also willing to share the distaste for a president that regarded himself as above call in every institution in honduran society from the church to civil organizations to business organizations to the liberal party to the national party to the supreme court and congress

every institution found this president as putting himself above the wall. if both facts are stated by my friends on the democratic side where i am affiliated and my friends on the republican side we can then look forward as president of, and secretary clinton wants us to do and not argue about past history. so now let's look for work together. secretary clinton, secretary clinton did a great service turning to president arias, were priced winner and say let's have dialogue and find a solution. one that is going to take time that doesn't involve immediately parachuting mr. zelaya back into honduras. one that recognizes that there is a compromise necessary on all sides. and my client favors such a compromise. and that is about dialogue. and finally, whatever the

solution cannot be imposed by the oas, the united states by my friends who are democrats and my friends who are republicans. it has to be a hunter and solutions. right now every institution in honduras and every public opinion poll taken supports this civilian government. there is no military running this government. supports the civilian government but also wants a peaceful solution. but it has got to be a honduran solution between the leaders of honduras as well as mr. zelaya and under president arias and under secretary clinton i see no better way than dialogue and ultimately a peaceful solution. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much. ms. stevens? >> does that work okay?

>> yes. you can pull it closer if that might be easier for you. what ever is easier for you. >> thank you, chairman engel and members for holding this hearing on the crisis in honduras today. i would like to begin by expressing my sympathies to the people of honduras for the violence and political turmoil they have experienced this jan 28. it is understandable and perhaps inevitable that there crisis has triggered a larger debate about policy and politics, democracy. but neither their humanity or their dignity should be forgotten as we discussed the implications of the coup for all of us inside and outside honduras. in fact their interests and hours are in alignment. in that context let me make three basic points. first, i believe the goal of our policy and diplomacy should be resolving this crisis in a matter that restores the constitutional order to honduras

and returns president zelaya to office. second, we need to stand with the region and singing loudly and clearly that military coups cannot be regarded ever again as acceptable alternative to democracy. third, we need to understand that there is a principal debate occurring in the americas about space institutions and the constitution which protect them. at times some nations will make choices through space means that may disturb and discomfort us deeply but our long-term interest in democracy and stability in the western hemisphere can only be vindicated by our boards and actions we are seen as respecting rather than undermining their sovereignty and decisions. what we a disagree about some of these issues i would hope we could speak with one face on whether it is appropriate for military force to be used against the presidency of zelaya. after all the top legal at pfizer for the honduran armed forces similarly a conagra's man

who served as mr. zelaya's defense ministry and resigned from his position just days before the coup because he believed mr. zelaya was breaking the law wrote to congress this week that president zelaya's ouster was a legal and he would refuse to take his legislative seat on till mr. zelaya was reinstated. this drives home the most important theme of the recent events in honduras regardless of ideology or one's opinion of president zelaya's behavior prior to the coup, can't we say this with clerical blincoe coups or wrong. they are undemocratic and they can't the hands of everyone who touches them. when violence becomes a substitute for politics and everything falls apart. that has been the sad story in many places across latin america and that is why so many people in the region are as proud as they are today for having tried to put that history behind them. s president less it recently what we have achieved these

years was in truth the result of the death of many people, many young people who decided to take up arms to bring down authoritarian regimes in chile, argentina, r cui, brazil, and almost all countries. they died and we are doing with the dreamed of doing and we have won this the space means. none of us all to see the progress rollback which is why being clear about why this is unacceptable is so important to the region and national interest. against this backdrop it is extremely important president obama has taken the position from the inception of the crisis but reversing the to and returning president zelaya political and diplomatic race for the united states. as he said three days ago during his trip to russia and america cannot and should not seek to impose any system of government on any other country even as we meet here today america supports now the restoration of the democratically elected president

of honduras even though he has strongly opposed american policies. against the expectations of some in the region the united states has reacted with prudence to these events and that strengthens us and our long-term interest in the western hemisphere. the crisis in honduras came at a particularly crucial moment. there are debates taking place in latin america about all of the state and will democracy should do when the institutions fail to deliver this is hardly a new phenomena. governments of the ideological have written for decades, for centuries. this isn't a question and some would have simply of left versus right. colombia is discussing right now whether president uribe will have the chance to run for a third term or is only a debate about centralizing power in the executive. nations do this to improve governance to an exclusion and open up opportunity. as jennifer mac way of the carter center pondered recently does democracy allow for its own

free will living within the rules of the game? there are real and legitimate questions about when that does get out hand but we have to be careful in light of the history about how and when we ask those questions. these are serious issues and we place a lot at risk if we treat them lightly. we should support please is not only when we like the trees is people are making but also when they use elections rather than violence to make the choices for themselves. even when we disagree with the outcome. we share a common border with the region and confront a common set of problems. disease, criminality and security, environmental challenges and proliferation. none can be solved without us being good partners, not by imposing but by listening and operating multilaterally. if we identify with the space aspirations, our country would be much more successful in the region moving forward. it is that interest and those concerns which i believe are at stake in the crisis in honduras today.

thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. reich? >> mr. chairman, members of the committee i appreciate this opportunity to speak with you and i would like to submit my remarks for the record. >> without objection so ordered. >> the battle for control for honduras is mollyann out a small nation. what happens in honduras me one day be seen as either the high water mark of hugo chavez attempt to undermine democracy in this hemisphere or a green light to the continuing spread of the authoritarian under of democracy. the removal of president zelaya from office to weeks ago has been referred to mainly outside of honduras as an attack on democracy. in contrast, prominent honduran tourists and scholars or not members of the government described in the opposite fashion. as a legal and defensible measure of to coequal branches of the honduran government against the autocratic intent of the executive. many conference insisted the actions save democracy by

preventing zelaya from establishing the kind 21st century socialism that is being established in countries like latin america under something called the elbe, alliance invented by castro and financed by chavez. we must find the bipartisan way to defend the true democrats in honduras. i respectfully suggest to the schogol is one way to do so may be to ask the elected representatives of people honduras their congress why they voted i had 125 - 3, but now here it is possibly 124 - 4. e3 the equivalent of that vote in this house of representatives would have been about 415 to 11 with a few extensions. you our representatives in congress more than anyone know that by nearly all elected members of the nation's conagra's give such bipartisan support to such a momentous measure there must be an unusual reason and in honduras the

reason most genuine fear for the future of the country. i admit i am not an expert on honduran law. i would also point out however most in this country and other countries who have rushed to condemn the zelaya removal or equally unqualified to judge. how can the so-called space community allow cuba, venezuela and other countries that have either destroyed self-rule or are in the process of doing so to determine the standards of democracy in the region? elbe has a consistent modus operandi so the foundations of spree rule such as the election and he gained power, concentrated in the hands of the executive, steadily diminished civil liberties and then change the rules and even the definitions of democracy to remain in power indefinitely through any means necessary including force. in my opinion what took place in honduras to 28 when the military remote zelaya on order of supreme court should have been

handled differently. as an american i would have liked to have seen zelaya's charges better publicized in advance of the arrest to have seen civilian authorities and all military forces to arrest zelaya. i wouldn't have expelled him from the country but would have detained him and given the opportunity to defend his actions like any other accused felon. but i am not a home durham. i didn't feel threatened by zelaya's increasing authoritarianism as did the honduran congress for example. i did not fear the undermining of my country's space institutions by zelaya as did the honduran supreme court. i didn't know the extent of interference by venezuelan, cuban and other foreigners in the internal affairs of my country as did the honduran armed forces. had i been a honduran living peacefully in the united states as most in this room to i would have heard the exceptional denunciation of the catholic church and protestant churches protesting zelaya's abuses of power. at the same time, however, one doesn't have to be pondering to

understand the anger of the average citizen that the documented and repeated instances of gross dishonesty by zelaya, his family and members of his cabinet. i cannot excuse the zeal with which the military broken to zelaya's house but it may be explained by zelaya's alito miss use of the police and military to take over private property is, can i access to rightful owners and thus benefit his extended family. to use the forces of the wall to commit unlawful acts is immoral and may also explain the condemnation of zelaya. commendably the liquid funds are of the honduran armed forces as has been mentioned admitted law was broken and expelling zelaya. and action the armed forces justified his taken to prevent violence when was the last time the legal the adviser of chavez or castro's armed forces, assuming the even have such position admitted criminal error in handling a case? i will submit the balance of my remarks for the record,

mr. chairman. but in conclusion let me say it's always an honor for me to be asked to testify before the u.s. congress because i've never taken the freedom of this country afforded me as for granted. i am an immigrant, to an american who lived under to dictatorships in his native country than salles eight enslaved by communism. i'm privileged to serve the government in and out of uniform over 15 years. i fervently exercise my civil rights because i once lost those rights and know how precious they are. i urge this congress not to condemn hondurans were defending theirs. even if we may not approve of the one mistake which the military have already confessed. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. let me say that we can see that hour very distinguished panelists and excellent testimony composed of a wide range of views on the subject,

and i think that we have heard a lot of good points from a lot of different people. for me, i think the question that i would like to concentrate on is where do we go from here? obviously there is negotiations going on with mr. arias and united states as was mentioned has been instrumental in putting together those discussions. secateurs clinton has been very helpful in doing this. if i could close my eyes and say well, what kind of possible solution or compromise can come out of these negotiations on a would bet the most probable thing to come out would be a

return to power of mr. zelaya, to finish out his term, which i believe is four more months. and then have a new election as was scheduled in honduras and november. and election where mr. zelaya would be barred from running for a second term as was mentioned and has been stated by the honduran constitution. i would bet the house that would be the solution that would come out. i would like anyone's comments on that. would that be a viable compromise and is it something that you think would be likely to come out of these discussions? anybody want to try? mr. davis? >> mr. chairman, the first thing i would like to say is i would rather not offer advice to the parties as how to solve this like an offer some principles that are in alignment with what

you just said and what my clients believe. the one principle most important is the rule of law needs to be upheld. so any solution that involves the return of mr. zelaya if that is the choice -- >> mr. davis, would you just hold for en minute? i notice in the audience there are some signs and i would ask the people to put them down because i think it is inappropriate. thank you very much. mr. davis? >> so, and a line with most of the remarks here on both sides of the aisle and yours, mr. chairman, there are two principles i certainly believe that mr. zelaya and president arias are aimed at discussing. one is that delivers law is very important. mr. zelaya needs to acknowledge that and certainly needs to acknowledge that the supreme court, his own party in the congress and all the other institutions have found him to have violated bill law and he has to be held accountable.

as to the people who may have violated law by sending him out of the country in the middle of the night. so there may be a solution that is equal handed that out for getting both of those violations in return for certain commitments. the principle is the rules of law. the second principle is democracy and security that goes with the democracy and the elections as you mentioned must take place. and their must be a new president. someone from this party is running have someone from the opposition national party and three other parties are running. so those two principles, the rule of law, and some agreement on how the rule of law is to be applied equally, and democracy and security. i believe president arias can bring the two together to achieve the principles. >> thank you. dr. arnson, i noticed you had your hand up.

>> once again i feed the interpretation of what constitutes illegal solution in honduras is a contest to dish -- issue. i would share their reluctance to define as a u.s. citizen how honduran politicians and how the honduran public should resolve this crisis, but i frankly find it in a probable that a resolution to the crisis could be found that does not include president zelaya's return to honduras. at the same time what he attempted to do that the supreme court and congress found him in violation of the constitution should not be allowed to take place. i think it might be entirely reasonable to prevent deepening polarization between now and the month of november to attempt to move up those elections and make sure that they are fully

observed not only at the time of the ballot, but before and in the period afterwards to guarantee that the political process goes forward in an open and space fashion without intimidation, without violence. i would think that there may be a role for an international observer under the auspices of the oas or the united nations to establish itself in honduras as an international mechanism to help the hondurans overcome polarization. i believe the country is deeply divided probably equally in favor and against president zelaya. i think that i agree with what was said earlier. i think a majority of hondurans, not majority but a plurality opposed the way in which he was removed. and i hope that what mr. davis has described as the need to

look forward and not to become entrenched in the position and principles articulated up until now will be possible because adherence to those deeply entrenched positions will lead to a continued stalemate and bicyclist needed is a way for both sides to be flexible in order to break this impasse. >> i think that one of the things i hear again people are giving president zelaya's removal from power was constitutionally appropriate. the troubling thing and even people in the panel who are saying that president zelaya violated the law can anybody tell me where in the honduran constitution gives the military there right to remove a president from power at gunpoint and whisked him out of the country? i don't think that anyone differs with me. i don't think that there is anything in the honduran constitution the would give the military that power.

i see people nodding their heads. so i think that that is something that is troubling but i do think that the united states can play and should play a very positive role in trying to mediate these results. mr. mack. >> thank you, mr. chairman. you know, first of all i appreciate the testimony from everyone. it's such an important hearing because what we are trying to get our arms around is democracy in latin america. and not all constitutions are written the same. but it is clear and you don't have to be an expert as someone mentioned on the -- one of my

colleagues mentioned earlier, to understand the hungarian constitution. you just have to read it. and it's clear in article 239 in the constitution of honduras that by the order of the supreme court, which we have which we can read which says to the rest of the president that of the military was just acting out the constitutional responsibility passed to them by the supreme court. it's not that hard to figure out. you don't have to be a scholar. you just have to read. this idea that this is a coup is so disturbing to me. that you could say with a straight face after hearing the testimony from the panelists and

the members that appear the military is not in charge of honduras. therefore you cannot have -- it cannot be a military coup. the military acted on the rule, on the order of the supreme court. so i think we need -- someone needs a paradigm shift. people need to understand and stop calling this a coup. the negotiations going on right now at the base of that that this is a coup is going to be difficult to get to a solution that follows the constitution of honduras, and anything other than something that follows the will of all in the constitution of honduras said the portable president.

mr. davis, i was very interested in your testimony and i understand this is on behalf of your client so i want to ask you this: does your client believe that this was a military coup? >> my client wants me to answer that based on the fact and the facts are there is no military person in charge of this government. the government is now a de fact being run by the successor under the constitution the president and the congress, so the word military would be inappropriate as far as my clients are concerned. on the other hand i think my clients would agree with the chairman that there is nothing in the constitution that allows somebody shipped out of the country as was done so the negative side isn't about his removal was president, the article to 30 mine as you said is expressly stated an

automatic, he automatically loses office under the wording of the constitution and my colleagues that talk about democracy seem to want it more a constitution adopted after military governments in honduras rule that 1982 and that constitution is a sacrosanct to hondurans as ours so the constitution said he had to be removed. the supreme court 15 to zero agreed and so did all the members of his party. but the issue of whether he should have been whisked away in the dead of night by the army is what is troubling and it is not an easy issue to dismiss and from my client standpoint they are troubled about that and i can only say that what i offer donner says the wisdom of hindsight statement i made. it should have been done differently but remember the context the president of honduras lead a mob. the president himself you can see it on youtube led the mob that overtook the army of guards into the barracks to see the

ballots that have been shipped in by mr. chavez. now that's just the fact and the atmosphere was fearful of physical safety and it was that context i believe the wisdom of hindsight something that was done that should have been done differently. >> thank you mr. davis and i agree with that. i agree with your statements. i would say this. if the supreme court, the converse, the business groups, the churches, if all of these groups came together to say that the removal of the president was the right thing to do certainly they could also come together to say we don't think he should have been flown out of the country and hondurans could have figured out the right course to make sure that didn't h