there is the good curveball. now what to throw. curveball, underneath the strike zone. no? gave two, and wept down. that's usually -- so gregg zaun, you little tricky guy. >> jim h: he fooled you! >> jim p: well, he did. he can always fool me, i'll old, but you want to fool wells at the plate and get him out. >> jim h: there's a bus hit to right field. all wells was doing there was protecting the outside corner, and he has a two-out single. >> jim p: well, wells protected it well, and singled in to right field to get the tying run to the plate. and again, it's so imperative that jim johnson really pitches to the maximum level of his ability, because you don't have

a match-up lefty in the orioles bullpen. >> jim h: here is the tying run at the plate, overbay. fouls it back.

>> jim h: 2-2 on overbay, and he got him! down on strikes goes overbay, and that ends the threat! so with the tying run aptsty plate, a huge strikeout for jim johnson. bottom of the 8th coming up.

orioles up by 2. uilding. now everyone has the fastest upload speeds. and we're giving them a mini netbook. well, i'm sticking with cable. so's ted. (voice) no i'm not! he's just goofing. (voice) no i'm not! (sighing) ted has betrayed me. (announcer) switch to verizon fios tv, phone and internet today and get an ultra-sleek compaq mini netbook. call the verizon center for customers with disabilities

 salazar, and he takes a ball. 2-0.    ist very encouraging the scout friends that you have and coming to you and telling you about guys they saw. >> jim p: well, not only telling me about, but raving. in 1965, when i came to the orioles, we were a good team. i was just trying to find out why i could stay here at 19,

but we had frank robinson one of the best players ever. he made everybody better. davie johnson came up. paul blair played center feed. eddie watt came out of the minor leagues where he had been a starting pitcher, weren't to the bullpen, so all of a sudden you go from a team that was a second place team in 1965 to win your division, going to the world series, and winning in four over the dodgers. so that's that impact player you talked about. >> jim h: you saw wieters on the bench. he's not playing today. reimold who will bat this inning, he's already here, and salazar works a walk on a very close pitch. so orioles have the lead-off man on in the 8th.  

 bouncer to short, t should be two. scutaro goes to second, hill back to first. there's two, as it goes 6, 4, 3. that erase this base runner, two men down. so at the moment, sherrill has

a two-run game to protect. which is so much easier for a closer, because that two have to get an to get that go ahead run to the plate. >> jim p: or in the words of mick mussina, less difficult. >> jim h: here is nolan reimold, he went to stanford. they have an awfully got a bullpen. last year the best pitching staff the american league. this year all kinds of injuries. they lost four starters.

those pesky red sox still number one. >> jim h: yes, they are. >> jim p: and familiar tapeh creepingup. >> jim h: 0-2 on reimold. inside with a fastball. >> jim p: tonight leads the american league with 50 quality at starts, they get another one today. so 51 over the first somewhat half of the season, or up until the all star break. >> jim h: 1-2 on reimold, who is one out of 3. reaches for the breaking ball, pops it up towards third, and scutaro has it for the out, so we'll head to the 9th inning.

orioles three outs away for a win. all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 miles per hour. almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. starng august 16th, fly southwest airlines from bwi airport to boston logan for just $49 one-way. bags fly free on southwest so our low fares stay low. grab your bag. it's on. - ( ding ) - book now at southwest.com.

 .  >> jim p: johnson changed his windup about two months ago. not a particularly good spring training, but he has pitched extremely well. aier ago, he was getting ready

to pack his bags to go to new york. had 28 saves in the first half of last season before the all- star game, ended up pitching over two inbeings in that american league, we in yankees stadium, last all star game played in oil yankees stadium, so he comes in today, not going to the all-star game, he'll get three days off, but would essential like to close the car on the jays. >> jim h: defensive change as well. pie cops on replacing reimold in left field. and felix, who has had very little playing time as of late. he's in the game in left. here is alex rios to lead off against sherrill. >> jim p: so their mix is to get a guy on. bring the tying run to the plate, and there's a strike. >> jim h: so rios looking for his first hit. he's 0 for 2, has drawn a walk.

breaking ball bends outside. 1-1. orioles three outs away from getting two out of three aa against toronto, so they have a chance to go to the break on a positive note. >> jim p: office everyone loses to the angel is now. what was that stat on the angels? they've lost 13 of 16.  

 inside middle hitter, kee out of that zone. >> jim h: george sherrill 17 out of 20 in his save opportunities. off-speed pitch he lays off, 2- 2. >> jim p: george just could. >> reporter: locate that corner. >> jim h: tee fencive swing, and fouled it off to stay alive. >> jim p: well, that's what hitting with two strikes is all about. dan you cut your swing down? can you live in the moment, which is basically if i get on, we have a chance to tie it up.

rios is only the third run, but it presents an opportunity to put pressure on the orioles. >> jim h: another foul ball. the blue jays finishing up on the road. this is a long road trip for toronto. and it's ban tough road trip for them. they are 2-7. he just got a piece. >> jim p: well, they that had a great start. they won 27 out of the first 41. so they were. 27-14, had a mean-game losing streak. that, on the road nape come in 19-27 away. het real well with runners in scoring position early, and then that ceased. that's why the numbers down to

.261. >> jim h: are a prolonged at bat. already 11 pitches in, and alex rios is still up. >> jim p: well, george doesn't want to go to 3-2. that's the amazing thing, you come out of the bullpen, a closer, you really have to trust your stuff. you have to be able to throw it over. and a lot of curveballs, and once again -- >> jim h: check swing, and no appeal. dale scott doesn't ask. felt like he saw it in time. so there's the 3-2 count. >> jim p: zaun moves in, and george lets one go up low and away. rios thought about swinging at it. >> jim h: here comes the 3-2. high foul. that will be back in the crowd. >> jim p: because what happens if he gets on, not oak does the tying run come to the plate, but all of a sudden in you're

dave trembley, you have to make a decision, do i want mora to play the line, take away the double. but until somebody gets on job wu can play conventional defense. some managers are advocates, we're just going to give him a double. we'll give them a single to our left, but take away the double. high fly ball to center field. adam jones back on it, one down in the 9th inning.   

 roberts back of the bag,  a bounce be, he's got it, and two down. and sherrill trying to convert his 20th save is an out away. >> jim p: bautista high ball hitter, and he makes a good pitch. well defensed by roberts, playing up the middle. >> jim h: here is barajas, his first at bat. he took over for chavez who was lifted to are a pin. runner. toronto has own one player left

on the bench, is that's kevin millar. fans are on their feet at oriole park. there's a strike. is a slow ground ball to short. and the orioles win it! bergesen gets his 6th. sherrill gets his 20th save, and the orioles put the brake on a two-fame winning streak as jones gets set to head to st. louis for the all star game. final score, orioles 4, blue jays 2. woman over phone: no problem. you know, ybe other people are content to sit around and wait. wait for something to happen. for business to pick up. but for you, it's time to kick it in gear. time to get going. time to get tough.

take control. you're not gonna run and hide. because backing down's not your style. grab your bag. it's on. ( ding )  invite you go stay tuned for o's xtra post-game. how about bergesen? >> sold is it performance out

on the mound. the bullpen comes in, solid job. brian roberts today, an oscar salazar show up big for the orioles. >> salazar batting cheenup, but certainly helped out. we'll be back in just a moment. let's go because to jim and jim. >> jim h: all right, tom, thank you very much. we invite everyone to join us friday. that will be judge 17th. regular season play will resume. sox haven't announced their starter yet, but coverage begins with o's. xtra, presented by at&t. and now for jim palmer and amber theo-harris, this is jim hunter saying so long. now o's xtra, tom and rick.  

 welcome back to o's extra brought to you by verizon. orioles win their second straight game. let's go to amber theo harris who is standing by with oscar salazar. >> what a way to go into the all star break taking two of three aagainst the blue jays. does that momentum yum help going into the all star break? >> oh, yeah. we lost the first game, and then cam baking back with the next two. this is a great team, great guys. we, have to put everything together, and everything go s going well. >> for you, looking back at the first half of the the season, you get the call up. you made it very hard for them to send you back down.

>> i say okay, i'm on it, so i just be the best i can, troy to do my best. >> do you like that cleanup spot? >> oh, yeah, i love it. >> now, brad bergesen. does he always put you guys in a position, you feel, when he's on the mound, that you have a chance to win? >> oh, yeah, nerve the dugout sees how he pitches, what his attitude is here, so i think everyone is going with him to try to get the win. >> all right. two highlights of the season, oscar and brad. the orioles beating the toronto blue jays. when you look at oscar salazar, we saw the lineup card today, were you surprised he was batting cleanup? >> i wassed you know, though, when you look at the line-up, it's an obvious guy for today.

dave trembley wanted topy as many right-handers into things as he could. other ans a car, you really don't have anybody. wiggington would have   not shod, to, but today he dr saws and or cass came up with the peck. >> ands a car is hitting .419 this year with the orioles. brian roberts cops up here. and then izturis. >> starting the game off for the orioles with this bullet to right center field. the run scores izturis from first base. >> jim h: two minute late, markakis delivers a run, and brian roberts scores. and then oscar salazar will hit

the home run to left field. now batting .419. >> jim p: just on the outside corner, but salazar hooks that ball into is the bleachers. orioles up 3. knew brian roberts throughs the last run to the orioles, that scores izturis. >> jim p: and again, that's brian roberts starting to pick up the pace again. drives in the 4th run for the orioles. that's a big one right there. >> jim h: 7 base hits for the birds. again, 0 oscar salazar with his second homer of the season. dave trembley standing by at his press conference, and i being brought to youpy inter-- don wireless. >> hits when we needed it. were talking about some of those guys this morning in the dugout. roberts had ad a big game, and

obviously as is. salazar is probably one of the most fresh tesh guys for the at any time he had as to apply in the big legals, and everything just slot loves him. the other day, we were going to make the move to get izturis on, and he was back in here real early, and walked by my office about four times because he thought it was going to be him, and when it wasn't, you know, he brought his son in, and i know his wife and son had just got here, so it was a nights day for him, renice. >> jim h: dave, you thought periods was ready in the spring training game. are you surprised at all by the magnitude of this >> i think it just shows if you can get into the strike zone and pitch down, you can be several here. and he's,able to do that more

times than not. hero boats his delivery and row boats his. is we talked about some things we need to do better in the second half of the season. there was a couple of things today that i saw that, you know, will get taken care of and we'll do better. we've won some series. played a little better in the day. won an a sunday afternoon.

>> do the things you are look fog are in the second half come into fundamental baseball? >> we discussed that this morning, and that astounds are the the big heading 0 of fundamentals. i think fundamentals and approach of how you play the fame, and playing the game with pride, and a little bet better attention to detail.

did jones forget how many outs there were? >> i i'm not sure if he forgot how many outs, 0 are a runner at first, but obviously -- >> i would imagine that was one of the things you talked about that's going to be taken care of? >> yeah, want to leave on a positive. note, too, but that kind of stuff, there's no room for that, and adam jones, i love him like he's my own son, but there's no room for that. and he's a great kid and a good player, and he made a mistake, and he's embarrassed by it, but that's what i'm talking about it.

there's no reason for that.  

 >> dave, as much success  he's had, because he's a rookie, what are the challenges for him in the second half of his rookie season, as he sees teams for second, maybe third time here? >> well, the challenges i have for him is don't kill him. you have to take a really good look at him, because this guy works real hard. i mean, he bears down on every pitch. he gives you everything he's got on every pitch. that will be the challenge for him. because there will be a lot of teams -- today there was a lot of first ball swinging today. i think, and you saw it against boston, he pitched a good game, but you saw it after the 6th inning. they start taking pitches and working it, and fouling it off. i think that will be the

challenge for him, to see if he can still get quick outs, and not get worked to death. >> is there a position on the field you could feel comfortable putting him in? >> yeah, dh. no, he's pretty good first baseman. >> i don't think you're going to find the amount of range and arm strength at third that you see for most prototypical guys that play that corner spot. and that's just the way it is. i think his best position on the field would to be play first. >> (inaudible).

>> yes, it was, and it was nice to get him up, and, you know, he said he was ready today, and i taught he threw last night, and i know he threw limited pitches today, but his velocity was back. he's thrown 95. he looked like he did that first few outings in april, where he had a lot of giddy up and a lot of life on his pitches. that's what he looked like yesterday and today, and that's god for him, and is good for us. y'all have a great break. thank you. ,>> the salazar story is interesting. the orioles basically managed themselves into keepenning him for a while by sending hernandez down to bowie. the orioles were trying to be a little creative i think in that situation to keep him here. >> well, they have to be. you have to have a guy that

hits right-handed, especially when the club is really not scoring a lot of runs as of late. they got shut out a couple of times, last road trip, too. salazar look at what he did last year. those are huge numbers. if you want to multiply those until you get to .500, he's going to hit over 30 home runs, going to drive in almost a hundred. salazar is already hitting 400 this year. coming off the bench, you can't replace a guy like that. that's why everybody in the league now is calling up wondering if they can buy this guy from us to put on their bench for the stretch drive.

he's a hour hitter. really stunt have a defencive positions that really stands out. he can play third base. he can go out there. he's not the guy you want to see on defense day-in and day- out. he'll go the other way. he makes solid contact. that's all you can ask for a guy coming off the to bench and have a good attitude. you heard dave talk about him. that kind of stuff perm eiates the rest of the ball club. >> time now to be joined by george sherrill. george, les talk about the first batter, alex rios. turned out to be a 13 pitch at bat. >> yeah, he seems to have good at bats against me.

sometimes i get him, sometime hebes get mess, but he always seems to take it deep. in the count. >> george, any advice to adam joans about going to his first all star game? >> if he asks me. >> the success you guys have had out of the bullpen. like last night, just six innings of one-run baseball. tell us a little about what the whole bullpen -- how it's taking effect right now. >> well, it seems like we're slyly starting to work ourselves into rolls, consistent rolls, and i think with that said that everybody seems to be doing pretty well, and getting kind of adjusted to their roll, whatever it may be, and stepping it up a little bit. >> george, we appreciate you taking the time to take a moment to be with us, after the

orioles beating the blue jays for a second straight game. sherrill with this 20th save today. so the orioles win 4-2, second straight win over the blue jays. time to look at the at&t player of the game. bergesen had the lead going into the break, and i'm presuming that brad bergesen maintained his lead. he did. 63% of the total vote. brian roberts had 23%, and then salazar, who hit the home run, he has 14% of the vote. birds beat toronto 4-2 for their second straight win! úú÷

 well come back. the fans want more. the birds win their second straight. 5 wins four losses this season against the blue jays, and the orioles have now won 13 of 25

series so far. brian roberts gets back on track today. >> that's right. he has so many different ways to get hits, you just don't expect him getting them. but he's the catalyst of this ball club. when he is swinging the ball good at the top of that order, everybody seems to relax, & do their,, too, so he's a big key. i would almost love to see him hit with more men on base, because that is when his she really at his base. >> today 2 for 4. upped the batting average to .273 with 8 home runs and 42 rbis. nick markakis also had an rbi, and salazar with a solo home run. birds end up winning today over the blue jays 4-2. we'll be

back with more' we continue our coverage of the orioles here on mass innocence just a moment. other things e you can tell people about geico - great claims service and a 97% customer satisfaction rate. show people really trust us. gecko: yeah right, that makes sense. boss: trust is key when talking about geico. you gotta feel it. why don't you and i practice that with a little exercise where i fall backwards and you catch me. gecko: uh no sir, honestly... uh...i don't think...uh... boss: no, no. we can do this. gecko: oh dear. vo: geico. fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. ah, just installed fios in the whole building. now everyone has the fastest upload speeds. and we're giving them a mini netbook. well, i'm sticking with cable. so's ted. (voice) no i'm not! he's just goofing. (voice) no i'm not! (sighing) ted has betrayed me. okay. (announcer) unlike cable, fios brings 100% fiber optics straight to your home and when you switch now, you can get a free compaq mini netbook. just pay shipping, handling and taxes.

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 >> the plate umpire had to leave today for an injury, and slow this happened i game down for 10 minutes or is a as they changed the equipment. they had the promotion 2110 today. it soiled out. the two players involved if 2110 utah street, jones and markakis came up big. >> that's right. it was just one of those fun days for the fans to so i what they did. mars with a base hit. brian roberts scores on the play. so the fans got to cheer about that. later on today, watch this rebound right here. adam jones goes up. no chance.

definitely it would have been a home run right there, but alex rios right there, adam jones just hauls it in easily. >> time now to take a look at the american league scoreboard. red sox shut out kansas city 6- 0. beckett goes the distance. strikes out 7. now, the angels and the yankees are 1-1 in the fourth inning. oakland beat familiar tapeh 7- 8. jack custody pinch hit a single for an rbi. the detroit tigers man takenning their first place advantage in the american league central down in cleveland, 10-1. the betweens have a 13-5 advantage over the white sox, and in the second inning, seattle leads the texas rangers 8-0. that's a look at the american league scoreboard. when we return, adam jones will visit with us. birds beat toronto 4-2 for their second win in a row. woman over p.a.: this is your final boarding ll. all passengers...

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 it didn't hurt. it could have, but i'm glad mora picked me up, and just keep my head in the game a little more, i guess. >> adam, you saw him in spring train ting, how impressive are you with what bergesen has been able to do in the first half? >> i didn't get to see him in the first half. but you've seen him, and he's been electric. ever since day one, he's been throwing strikes, and working quick. we had a two-hour and something in a game, and that's common with him. he just keeps going out there and doing what his doing, the sky is the limit for him. >> adam, know you said before that going to the all-star game, it would be good to see the club isest best. is there anybody you think when

you look at them, you'll say, wow, i'm here, and i'm standing to somebody who is one of the best in the game? >> i would say in that situation in a clubhouse, jeter, due to the fact he's the face of baseball right now. he's the captain of team usa and the wbc, so he's like the face of baseball, so probably the only person, but i don't like at anybody like that, just guys be just different people, you know, just doing the same thing i'm doing. >> (inaudible) is that the sam thing about -- >> i'm not the young toast ever go. and if i was, that would be different, but at age 23, i'm pretty happy. i didn't think i would go this early, and hopefully it can be the first of many. >> classy gentleman, adam jones. so far this season, a .303 batting average, 12 home runs, and a great catch in center field today. now, the orioles will be off through thursday, they room

play in chicago, 16 through the next 23 are on the road, and jason berken gets the call. >> all he needs is a couple of runs from the or yeahs to help him out. guthrie, hopefully he'll be back on track. he's been feeling a little down. so they're all looking good at this point right here. if they can start off the second half, keep think i ball counsel in the zone, throwing strikes, we're in good shape with these guys, don't despair. >> orioles now 40 wins, 48 losses in the season. just a reminder, radio coverage on 105.7 the fan. birds beat toronto 4-2 for their second straight win. for rick dempsey, this is tom davis, thanking you for watching masn.

places like this, they either make you a much better ballplayer or they can make you a worse ballplayer. i don't think there's a happy medium there. >> expecting off a year in which

you led the national league in wins -- >> yes. >> -- how big a disappointment has this season been to you? >> we thought coming out of spring training that we would have a better record now than where we're at, no question. we didn't anticipate a lot of the problems that we've encountered here. we've probably played 81 or 82 games he e already as we speak. we've had our regular lineup on the field two days. all year. it's been a rough summer. it really has. i mean, it hasn't been all that enjoyable. >> last week you said that you were the most cool, calm and collected person around here. >> you know, the media doesn't how to take me here because i have fun with them. they're an inquisitive sort. they have all kinds of ideas on lineups and how to use your baseball team. i guess that's ok. i mean, everybody's got an opinion. but i have to do them before the

fact, not after the fact. that's the big difference. >> you have one of the greatest modern hitters playing here this weekend. is there any comparable that you've watched in your career to albert pujols? >> i tell you, this guy here, yeah, he's truly -- he's truly a great hitter. he's a one-man wrecking crew. what can i say? we don't want him to beat us here. we take the liberty of walking him anytime that we possibly can. >> well, if you came down to a one-game playoff against the cardinals, a three-run lead in the ninth inning, with the bases loaded -- >> might walk him. how about that? >> you would walk him? >> i didn't say i would, but i might. >> did you know lou piniella was an all-american basketball player in high school? >> did not know that. >> went on to have a nice career himself and a great manager. last season, piniella's cubs right around .500 at the break. this year, difference has been the offense, averaging over a run fewer per game this year

with significantly lower on-base and slugging percentages. >> open wheel racing, it's the honda indy race in toronto. race on a street course through the city. lap 59, there's a collision. struck against the wall there. caution flag comes out. seconds before the caution flag came out, dare row franchitti entered the pitch, and before he entered before the caution flag came out, he's able to complete his pit stop. dario franchitti for the win. after the race, there's retaliation from the confrontation earlier. franchitti regards the points lead over teammate scott dixon. >> all right. final round play at the u.s. women's open. and it's candy kung, 3 under

through 15 holes. today she's your leader at even overall, a one-shot lead on christie kerr. three players tied at -- two players tied at plus-two. kerr one shot back of kung. kerr is on 14 right now. so she has one extra hole to play. highlights once it goes final. >> amazing nobody under par. >> seems to be a theme at the u.s. open. >> yeah. final round of the john deere classic. right now steve stricker is your. great second round, shot a 61. he's at 18 under. he's got a two-stroke lead over a number of players. that group includes janzen and johnson. steve stricker so far with a two-shot lead. he's got eight holes to play. >> let's stay current. the u.s. eliminated by croatia in the davis cup quarterfinals.

other national teams news, the u.s. broke an 18-year gold medal drought by beating greece 88-80 on sunday to win the fiba under 19 world basketball championships. and jarrett jack has been signed to an offer sheet by the raptors. pacers have seven days to match the offer on jack. top stories on the way, including the biggest challenge facing lance armstrong. here's a hint. it has nothing to do with the course or another team. >> and albert pujols tied a cardinals franchise record set by mark mcgwire. meanwhile the cubs starter pretty

>> next on espnews, how to improve upon near perfection. albert pujols pads his numbing numbers, but hurts the cards with his glove. one night after the red sox and royals combined for 24 runs, i josh beckett delivers a tasty masterpiece. as lance armstrong battles the pyrenees in the field why his own teammate may be his biggest challenger. and what tune are the jazz singing with respect to carlos boozer? find out next on espnews.

>> thanks for joining us on espnews. we're keeping you current. when a royal fan probably opened the newspaper this morning, saw the pitching matchup, bruce chen against josh beckett. game was probably won and lost right there. >> you're saying advantage red sox? >> off the bat. >> beckett looking to join his teammate tim wakefield for most wins in the american league at the all-star break with 11. he was sharp throughout, getting mark teahen in the second inning. top three, john buck swinging. beckett retired the first nine batters he faced. five on strikeouts. top seven, little 4-6-3 double play. beckett gets out of a jam. in the ninth inning, billy butler to end it. takes just 94 pitches for beckett to twirl his second shutout in five starts.

red sox win it by a final of 6-0. beckett does indeed pick up his 11th win. it is his second shutout in five starts. the red sox have won 5-6 overall. >> we update you on the new york system rather than the kind of restructuring of bank debt that has been proposed by senator bradley. what's the difference? ..

>> and then the actual crisis with the fiscal responsive enough to prop up the recovery to prop up the economy and we let the banks a slide and prevent them from collapsing but not fix them. returned japaneses by the it enormous determination not to do that. that is what scares me. we that we have learned from

history and in the event proved unable to avoid repeating it that is very frightening. we're in agreement on that but the point* of the japanese is not that they did too much on either front but they failed to do enough which was the policy consensus. if you ask what larry summers was saying before 1/2 to hit this was overwhelming force. >> let's have one more common than we will go on to broader issues about the future. >> japan we did two years to cut interest rates and then it went down at zero very fast but it japan went have part of the that was a mistake. japan waited three years to do

any fiscal stimulus there was not active investment. there was a contraction of fiscal policy. the [inaudible] we're not doing enough but more than japan did. at seven things we can learn from japan the two be a little more aggressive and inconsistent. we're doing so mistakes on the banks but there are some differences between us as well. >> we have 50 minutes. -- a 15 minutes i want you to begin to talk quickly about the future and to correct these imbalances for you said raise taxes in the future.

let's get into that argument to give ready a reasonable chance to make a contribution. >> i want to start off to respond to biel's pointed it is a global economy but it is dysfunctional because then the idea the way the open economy with free global train and capital flows you have flexible -- flexible exchange rates that allow a way to have the surplus and deficit so they were not persistent but what we have now is the implicit cheating because we have one that needs to be revalued upward but germany has persistent surpluses along with japan agree a flexible exchange rates that would not occur but what happened to the argentinian they were pegged to the dollar. we are in a dysfunctional

situation unless we do something to correct that we are on the road to having that happen again. i was saying before about taxes needing to go up, they have to go up because we have to have incredible commitment that we will pay off these debts that we are running up. that is a political question more than an economic question. but it also goes into the issue we need to be clear that a and a tree government as something that is sustainable. i think it is also having a larger government at this point* can help deal with the problem that paul was bringing up with a global savings glut we have a situation where there is more savings than profitable investment opportunities to what is your expected rate of return? negative.

that is what a way to invest in the stock market and have it go down. we to be subject to these booms and busts and gives us over the average a negative rate of return one way to get around that is actually had david letterman to the investing and things we're not a good like individuals like universal health care, better education, infrastructure [applause] >> what should the future american economy look like and what is the role of government in that? public investment? taxes and regulation of the financial sector or restructuring the financial sector? >> we have to start with recognizing the prevailing view is false the markets are

bubble prone and create bubbles therefore they have to be regulated. the authorities are the regulators have to except the stability for preventing bubbles from going too big. they have expressly rejected that saying that if the markets don't know how the regulators no? of course, they can't. they are bound to be wrong but they get feedback from the market then they can adjust because they have not done enough or reverse because they have done too much. this means that is not enough to regulate the money supply. you have to regulate the credit. that means using tools. you have margin requirements, minimal capital requirements which we still do

but you actually have to vary them to counteract the prevailing mood of the market because markets due have moods and it is the job of the regulators actually it was called irrational exuberance but that is actually quite rational that when i see a bubble beginning were forming high jump on it because that is how i make money. [laughter] so it is perfectly rational is the job of the regulators to regulate however me should try not to go overboard with regulation because although the markets are imperfect the regulators are even more because not only are they human but there bureaucratic and also subject to political

excess of you want to keep regulation to a minimum it has to recognize that markets are inherently unstable [applause] >> with regulation we will fight the great depression and then many actual use will regulations with the financial system of the real economy. somebody became an excessive than the spirit of regulation started before reagan was jimmy carter for the regulation of the economy than we went to the extreme. georgia said it [inaudible] the start to believe that self regulation is bad or new regulation because there is irrational exuberance we rely on mismanagement when they are

making all the profits and the regulating agencies have the total conflict of interest. the entire model of self regulation, we have tough more regulation of the financial system the other thing that has happened we go through the boom and bust that goes more frequent. the real estate bubble in the '80s when and a 91 recession and with the technology bubble that we create easy money and easy credit and a lack of regulation and the housing double now with a bigger economic and financial crisis. the challenge is can we grow without excessive trends and leverage? can we grow in more sustainable ways? we will sustainable long-term growth and that is an open

question [applause] >> there are so many things i like to talk about but let's talk about where we ought to be when we come out of this. there are too big structural changes we want to see. we need to deaf financial is the economy berkeley where from an economy with 4% of gdp came from the financial sector to end the economy 41% of profits were being urged by the financial sector. there is no reason to believe anything productive happened as a result of all of that. [applause] the bankers are finding new ways to offload risk onto other people and really need to shrink it back down. we need a boring banking

sector again for all of the high finance is turned out to be destructive as a part of regulation may need to except we will not go back and by the way also a political economies vicious circle because as the financial sector got bloated the cloud did too. hit then read this stage bred more deregulation which spread the it muster that eight the world economy. this is a little off but one thing not to mess is the importance of a strong social safety net. by most accounts most say the european union will have a somewhat deeper recession than the united states. in terms of micromanagement they're doing a poor job of european central bank is too conservative europeans have been too slow to do fiscal stimulus.

but they human suffering will be much greater on this side because europeans don't lose health care when they lose their jobs. they'll find themselves with no support when state unemployment check has fallen. we have nothing underneath when americans lose their jobs they fall into the abyss. that does not happen in other countries broke or released in civilized countries [applause] some people say we should not be worrying about universal health care but this is exactly the time when the importance of having a decent social safety net is driven home which makes a very good time to actually move ahead on these other things. [applause] >> the role of the government in the future you have the first word and you will have the last word. >> i feel the press after what i heard tonight. i don't know about you ladies

and gentlemen, we are concentrating a massive expansion of the state to substitute for the private sector because that is the only thing paul thinks will deliver growth. [laughter] we will be regulate the markets and go back to the good old days you applaud because you think that was a great idea but we're rio and the 1970's? [applause] when all of these regulations were in place i don't remember that going too smoothly as the wells will we do? we will print money. almost limitless a slate that will be fine and then when we were done with that we will raise taxes what a fabulous package we have in store for us. [laughter] in late 2007 i was asked what is my big concern? that we will get the 1970's and out of fear of the 1930's and that is exactly where the

majority of people on this panel is steering the country and it is arizona to forget the failure of the market where the truth mainspring of economic growth live. the lesson of economic history is very clear. does not come from state led infrastructure investments. it comes from technological innovation and gains in productivity and these come from the private sector. not from the state bird but you want to try to solve the model. [laughter] by all means. [laughter] [applause] way to a second. let me finish. >> i think everybody on his panel is biting his tongue. >> including myself. >> we know we stand.

we're doing you a good turn by not extending this 10 minutes. bill has the final word. >> we know where you stand on big government but the critical point* please my role of banker is to pass it on to bill. we understand. >> very good. >> as we look at the future one of the main things we need to do i agree with paul on the social safety net, health education in particular but we also have to look at the mistakes policy makers made in the last 10 years. it is not that people are greedy it is human nature. it is that we made conscious

decision decisions not to put limits on the natural human and polls. what were the mistakes? [applause] in 1998 we about investment banks, banks and insurance companies to combine. we eliminated glass-steagall pro why was glass-steagall put into law? because last time we did not limit agreed we got into trouble, the great depression. the second mistake was in 1999, the explicit decision by in administration and congress to not regulate derivatives in particular, a credit default swaps that in 2002 were worth $1 trillion and today they are worth $33 trillion for pro that decision not to eliminate derivatives created the following sequence. you have mortgages, 1,000 mortgages from mortgage-backed

securities, 1,000 ceo is a ceo squared and ensuring each one of those tranche is part of the 33 jillion dollars and we decide not to regulate it. 384 people in the london office of aig. [laughter] destroyed. >> i am not to blame for aig. [laughter] why did i accepted this invitation? [laughter] >> i said the london office. 184 people people doing derivatives district of data had 116,000 employees in 120 countries because there is no regulation at all. the third decision, 2004 the sec allow banks to go from 10

/1 leverage up at 30 /1 leverage and guess what? once they were allowed, they did at. [laughter] if we look at the future we might think of when doing those three mistakes. [applause] and we might remember the chairman of the federal reserve is supposed to remove the plunge from the party when it gets out of control. that did not happen in the greenspan years [applause] just a brief point* of socialism the previous administration was so idealistic all free market laissez-faire with no vision that it traded such a big economic disaster that they have now turned are to be the socialist. they implemented all of these policies there is now government intervention if we

had more pragmatic and less in the logic the government could provide we would not have this mess and real live in a market economy where the government plays its own role. that is where the problem is. >> thank you very much. thank zero niall ferguson for being a brave soul of here. of like to think that new york review of books and pen world voices it take you for being a very good audience and everybody on the panel [applause] >> we're at book expo america with craig o'hara from pm press. >>guest: it is a small group

of publishers redo different types of media, dvd, audio lectures, music, a fiction and nonfiction books for all of this stuff has ideas behind it that our political and the sense we want to have an open dialogue not only current events but how history has been interpreted, who makes history or defines what is important and how it can empower people to make the right decisions. >>host: this is your first year you have a lot of books coming out within the past year it do you want to talk about the series that you started? >>guest: what is new with pm press doing fiction because again what is important is to have ideas behind what we do friction is the place where stories can be pulled and interpreted in different ways we started the outspoken author series that combines of short fiction from "popular

science" fiction writers where they talk about their personal politics, what they're trying to get across and demystify a bit of what the science fiction is about. for "the reader" it can be shocking as the author or personal ideas are often covered up by these fictional narrative is but it is fascinating. >>host: what are the two books you're starting out with? >>guest: the lucky strike which is an alternative history about what would have happened with hiroshima if the bomb was not dropped provide definitely will not give away the ending but it brings into play how people are responsible for their own actions whether for the soldier or that your man or a says individual consumers the stories say what can happen when people take control and

responsibility for their own actions? the other story is a parody of the the left behind a series of books were he gets is an opportunity to blast the right wing born-again christians and we also take great pleasure in blasting. >>host: you are politically left us publisher? >>guest: i am uncomfortable using the terms of left west -- leftist along with right wing because they carry baggage but it to the people who uses such terms i would say that leftists or perhaps extreme leftist would be the stereotype. >>host: what other books you have coming out? we have been working with an author who was very well known for his nonfiction a good books on the environment from climate change, a history, a prehistoric history, and what

we're working on with him is a different turn the husband a couple of novels called the flash point* imprint where he writes again like most of the fiction is the story behind it. he has a tale to tell but it involves what happens when ban exploits nature and with climate change and what happens when there is a very bad our relationship between those on top and those of the bottom between the haves and have-nots. they could put these fictional accounts, a good story three have done books with him where he interviews his own influence is. we did a book called how shall i live my life? interviews activists, a spiritual folks, doctors, and will receptiveness receptiveness -- animal-rights activists and finds out how to live in a way that it is

living on a planet that is more just and how we can treat each other in a more fair and humane matter. >>host: you also dabble and other media do want to talk about your dvd is your publishing? >>guest: we have dvd's and cds to date there all documentary's covering much material dealing with the appellation and -- prison appellation we do not feel that is the way to solve the problem it is the angle of three we also have done cds and audio lectures with people who may be best known for their written books and have best-selling books but what i have to say on various subjects of current events is equally important so we try to present the media film and audio and a box so people can explore these ideas in whatever format is easiest for

them 57 outside of dvd is or cds coming with regards to the books you are putting out your printing these books are you putting them in other formats with digitization? >>guest: we don't have a choice in this matter. police. we are exporting everything we can to e-books. you can download them as apb of their also available for any various had held a voice the sony reader auriemma is on candle which i don't expect to catch on but it is important when you are working from a perspective to get ideas across that is what we're doing. >>host: you are the co-founder of pm press what does it date to start a publishing venture? >>guest: a simple answer? an unbelievable amount of dedication and the ability to

work 20 hours a straight. the ability to go nights and nights without sleep. that is one of the major things progress course it takes a lot of money being a non-traditional publisher we do have a great deal of money but we do have a sustainer program the friends of pm press day pay $25 per month as they get it every release that we do with 23 releases that way we have a sustainable basis that we can't count on to help out with the print cost. >>host: craig o'hara from pm press. >> my summer reading the first half will be catch up. there are two books i have not finished one is the "team of rivals" the abraham lincoln book and the