of democratic massachusetts senator ted kennedy. to his political ascendency and tenuring congress. this event hosted by the boston public library last and hour and a half. >> good evening everyone. i am david boeri of wbur's radio boston. is a pleasure to be here to talk about "last lion" and if you get me, if you look toward my right, you will see a field as big as the democratic presidential primaries in new hampshire. every four years. [laughter] this is a remarkable arqeutte of history that we are going to try to cover tonight. and, interestingly enough it is a remarkable arc of the history of the "boston globe."

i think of, at the beginning some of the hall-of-famers, marty noland, the late david night and bob healy, curtis whipkey, tom lafont among others all leading to the reporters and columnists before you here. so, with that big and art and that much history to cover we are going to have to start moving quickly. the third section tonight will be questions and answers from the floor so feel free to come down. there is a microphone right here and if you have questions you can keep up. we have c-span with us tonight as well and they are recording as you will notice, so let's begin. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >> this is, this is really an extraordinary kind of project,

highly unusual to have a team of reporters. it is almost booker fee by committee and committee chairman. how did this project, about? >> this project came about, i think after senator kennedy announced his brain cancer, people began to get him with a slightly different eyes. he is a very polarizing figure. he is somebody about whom people tended to have very fix abuse. there were a lot of people who love ted kennedy from the '60s and there were a lot of people who decided that he was either too liberal for them or morally compromised the year and just ted sort of the caricature in their mind of ted kennedy. when they realized that he was suffering from brain cancer and in all the news coverage that went around that i think people were willing to look at ted kennedy differently. now, at the same time we of the globe where cogitating of that information people let simon & schuster also were interested in

this and we are looking for a biography and it turned out there was no better resourced for information, no better group of reporters, people who knew ted kennedy and could follow the entire arc of his career so we felt like it was both part of our newspapers a journalistic mission to try to make sense of this man's half century in power is the dominant figure in new england and in massachusetts, but also to provide a definitive biography about someone whom there has not been a definitive biography. >> so, peter when you when your fellow writers here, were you solicited to write the book or were you assigned to read the book is part of your duties as employees of the club? >> no, no, no. there was an approach made and there was also the internal discussion about how we wanted to approach the canedy story. ultimately we ended up doing a very conventional type of book

proposal after we had settled on how we were going to do this series for the newspaper so it developed naturally like any normal book project would. >> so, to be clear this is a global book. >> this is a global but absolutely and it draws on the people next to me and also on some of the memories of some of our retirees who covered the earliest of kennedy's race is. >> and, you took on, you took on the role of editor. >> yeah, i was the story editor and sort of plot it out how we would approach the story and what would be considered part of each chapter and sort of what this story arc would be and then worked with the editor of the globe to assign reporters to each section and we obviously know this stuff very well between us and we were able to i thank find the right people to

cover each period in kennedy's career. >> so, you had stories, editorial meetings? >> some of them had a brainstorm and quality where people would talk about their own memories of senator kennedy. and, you know people would debate back-and-forth whether certain episodes in his life, certain aspects of his personal background, you know this is a man for whom his family background and legacy was a very defining experience. but, how those parts of his background impacted later decisions and things of there was a lot of discussion along the way. >> now, you have these various reporters. everybody has a different voice. how do we deal with all the different voices and writing styles? >> each one's idiosyncratic riding style? >> first of all i think the writers were all very cognizant of the fact that they were writing a book that would have a

larger narrative to it so i don't think that anybody decided to you know go off half cocked and in stylistic direction. that was how much appreciated certainly by me, but then both through the talking out of the different sections with people and editing it afterwards we were able to add enough sort of connective tissue and make sure things that been referenced in earlier chapters and in some cases people sections and contributions were then divided and so it became more of a chronological narrative so some material by his family that had been in the last part was put in part of the 1970's when it was actually happening so there was a little bit more structural editing as well. >> subcommand you would, i take it there is certainly a narrative flow to this, but that u.s. editor are inserting other people suggestions and inserting material here and there.

>> we believe that this book reads like it had one author, but it is a full narrative then certainly pleased that people's responses, the people responded to it that way but i also say that this was put together in a matter of six or seven months but having seven primary riders drawing on the experiences of other people at the globe and as i mentioned before some of the retirees is the equivalent of having ten to 15 topnotch writers working for six months, which is like having a major but prefers spending eight or ten years with this subject so we really do consider this a-- >> you couldn't help but notice in the middle of the globe series i think it was february 22nd, the senator emerged if only to talk to "the new york times" to make the point which was a coach who won, that he is still alive. [laughter] >> i don't know if that was their response to our series or

some gossip saying he was not going to return to the senate and we are very pleased to see that he did return to the senate today. he participated in president obama's health care for the men looked great. >> he sounded terrific. we don't watch television where we work. we listen to it. he sounded terrific. you did not interview senator kennedy during the course of the project. why not? >> senator kennedy as most people know has signed a number it will go come at least a year ago, maybe two years ago to do his own memoirs which he is presumably working on on the longer path but i think is a contractual obligation not to talk to any reporters about his life so tv, biographers whatever he is not done any interviews. but i was going to say david, given that restriction that is not talking about his life for this contractual reason, our reporters have had frequent nearly constant contact with him

over the years of the book does include new information directly from him, including susan milligan who has covered him for washington bureau and some really interesting surprising things that he has told her in past reduce. >> did this senator make it possible for you to talk to some people? did he get people the okay to talk to you? did he get the cooperation? >> this book contains fresh interviews with his closest friends, his closest friends from childhood, his closest friends from harvard, his closest friends from law school, his cousins, mary jo guard and his crew up with them in lived with him through a period as a child come included interviews with his nieces and nephews of most of the people who we wanted to get wheat ended up getting which was really gratifying. >> interesting ottley and of the senate, the senator whose own book, his autobiography which is titled true compass was scheduled to come out in

november of 2010 has now been moved up to the october 27th of 2009. [laughter] do you think that was because of the club? >> i don't think so. i think it was because of his illness. >> he has moved it up to 2009, but it is unfortunate because of course adam clymer had about 21-- in the course of his biography. it might have helped, but they make it the point, the publishing company made the point of saying this is the globe's count was not the authorized account. i guess that means involving-- >> the authorized account is obviously his own account and i think people will look forward to his memoirs. he is a fascinating figure. he has been a dominant figure in politics for the last 50 years and has been part of the great history but obviously these memoirs, particularly someone who is not known to be reflected

but whose own actions have been so much a part of these decisions, there's a tremendous interest in hearing his perspective but on the other hand as perspective is only a part of the story, so i think that it was a liberating factor for us that this was not in any way intended to be his own story. >> of course, it is no surprise, no surprise that all to expect, given the senators medical condition, that all the media outlets in town have prepared obituaries in the event. i mean, that is what we do as a profession. when fact is obituary has been written a number of times over the decades. that is what we do to be prepared. any reason, well, i should ask it this way. i should put it this way, there was a reason to publish now instead of waiting until the end

of the last chapter? >> well, i mean as we saw today the last chapter may not be written for a while. i think that the interest in senator kennedy did start when people started looking at him with a slightly different eyes, after the cancer diagnosis. there may have been building on even a sense of reassessment that has been developing over the years. i think that people with long been his foes, we talk of this friendship with many republicans and i think people who saw him as an ideological figure came to admire him as somebody who was a very hard worker and a crusader for what he believed in and sort of he earned newt respect to the last couple of decades. so, i think this is an appropriate time and certainly the attention we have gotten and the interests, the interest from the sources and talking about him suggest that this is an ideal time to do a book.

>> you could always revisit it with another edition in the future, but isn't it a possibility that some people come upon the senators death might feel less obligated to hold what they know for what they might it held because of the trust? that typically happens with biographies. >> i don't know about that. certainly ted kennedy is a major figure that people will continue to assess for decades and i would guess perhaps 100 years from now there will be somebody scavenging through the archives, may be looking at the c-span report to try to find information about center kennedy. he is the dominant figure in this seemed like quite the right moment to be doing a story of the full arc of his like and there is no doubt that in the future, long after his death people will be continuing to assess and reassess his life. >> ten years have passed since adam clymer's fd and highly

praised by korphe cold edward m. kennedy the by egger free. >> you have mentioned one, that it has been ten years. that biax f.e. focus the lot on sort of a particular period in his senate career. i think that senator kennedy's life telling it in a narrative way the way that we do, again capturing the complete the art of how his early experiences shaped his later fuse, that this is a story that has not been told and it has not been told this way. >> can you give me a couple of highlights that you have done? >> there are many, many things that those of us who knew a lot about the kennedys can find. one is we were able to in a fairly rigorous way look at his legacy up to this point in certain key areas and i think that when you look at it in terms of him being the dominant

figure really of the last 30 or 40 years in areas like, really for areas, health care, education, civil-rights and education and look what does happen including what has happened just in the last ten years in those areas to preserve that legacy. you know it is quite eye opening. if you talk to people today with the health care summit going on about ted kennedy's advocacy for health care they would say yes he is fought the good fight. when you look at what he has done, both to be there in the inception for medicare and medicaid but then preserve and expand medicare and medicaid over the years including in recent years, and things like cobra, things like hipaa which prevent people from experiencing job discrimination because of preexisting conditions. when you look at the work he is that in quadrupling the funding at the nih in the last in years but back in the inception and the war on cancer.

this is a legacy that is transform the relationship between the government in citizens even though people perceive it to be sort of an unfinished agenda item for him, so being able to see the full arc of his career and extent of his legacy will be quite eye opening. >> was there anything particularly surprising to you, peter? >> one thing that was surprising to me was how lonely his childhood was. something that we talked about what bella who covered that but we all saw the pictures of the kennedys romping on the beach and imagined it to be a big family full of love and excitement. in fact, for ted kennedy it was a boarding school childhood, changing schools constantly, always exposed to new friends, always losing older friends and then when he was slightly older as a child, the kennedy tragedy started to occur and his brother, joe jr., died when he was 12 and his sister kathleen died when he was 16 and his brother jack earlier and that

had a near-death experience. so, it was always coming back to hyannisport to sort of tend to grieving parents in to try to be cheerful presence as the rest of the family had to reconstitute a ground these experiences. >> with that, let's move to fellow reporter bella english. it was extraordinary, it was extraordinary last may. to me what was personally revelatory was just the number of people that came out of the woodwork with stories about what ted kennedy had done, so you have bella english from the boston globe. you have three brothers, three different personalities and i dare say that neither jack nor bobby ever made friends with firefighters. teddy had firefighters for friends. >> teddy tech after his grandmother honey fitz it was the mayor of boston. people say that teddy was a lot

more like honey fitz then he was like his father, joe. honey fitz, he loved everybody, he loved his hometown. he took teddy, he was than that milton academy, every sunday they would go out to the church or lewisburg square and also go down to the courts where honey had all of these the italian ire simmon and friends that he introduced teddy to in josey near often said and so did jack and bobby that teddy was the most natural campaigner and the best politician in the family and i think some of that had to do with his position in the family. he was the last of nine children. get to fight for air time. he took on the role of the sort of family mascot. he was fun. he was the pet of the family. they doted on him and spoiled him and loved him and he knew what his job was and he did it very well. >> i want you to share with us

some of the letters come to your credit, that you uncovered. those letters are just remarkable and i think they speak to how the family, that parents shaped his personality. of course he is the runs in the litter and there is that aspect of him being there runs in the letter but those parents, the letters are extraordinary. >> the kennedy family never threw anything away apparently come much to my pleasure why spend a lot of time in the jfk library, and went through rose's journals and files and joe sr.'s files and lots of friends. and what i found was that the kennedy parents are really tough. as peter said you have these images of these great football games at hyannisport andy sailing images and that was true. they gave their children all of the privileges of wealth but they expected a lot in return.

that was the burnish of the kennedy brand. so it grows-- rose is obsessed with learning, upset with learning. they were both upset with protection. second place was not good enough. no losers in the family, no wyden, etc. i'm just going to read you an excerpt from a couple of rows's letters only because i cannot do prejustice. so, this is after teddy became a senator. he is a grown man. rose would write to him to chide him about his grammar. i which would pay attention to this matter. u.s home after a preposition, for whom the bell tolls. if you listen to jack's beaches you will notice the always use this word correctly. u.s the objective case in english and later on when she was 85 years old and ted was a third term senator, she wrote him i watched you speak about drugs last friday night. please say if i were president,

not if i was president. [laughter] there is more. the reason is the old what used to be known in latin as condition contrary to that. for instance if i were he, said ressa you get the idea in these letters went on and on throughout all of the kids' lives. >> very, very high standards but for him rather sadly low expectations. he was constantly disappointing his parents. >> that is true. he was not a very good student. and, he unfortunately was the pudgy kid in the family. the kennedys or all obsessed with weight so there are many letters referring to teddy's way them being the fat kid in the family, a pretty brutal but i think he was the victim of low expectations. being the youngest of nine, he wasn't taken very seriously and then sort of the huge irony is on page 36 he became the patriarch of the family and the

one film took the mantle of liberal democratic voice fell upon. he was not prepared for it. who would be? >> let's talk about ted in his '30's. last year i had the opportunity to listen to the 1962 debate between ted kennedy and edward mccormack who was then attorney general of the state of massachusetts, the nephew of the house speaker. no slouch in his own right. the nephew of the house speaker and the democratic presidential primary, ted it just turned 30 years old, and this is a time capsule. it really comes out in a time capsule because the debate was not called the debate. it happened in south boston. it was called the symposium on the responsibility of men in government. you would wins if you heard that today. and nobody could get away with

that. a you would also wince when you would hear that debate in which young ted kennedy is just broad-sided by eddie mccormack who stepped out of character and just lambasted him. neil swidey that is the famous line. that is the famous line that haunted ted for a long time and that line was-- >> if you were it that were-- it would be a joke. >> adi mccormack was right. >> that is the interesting thing. when you look at-- sorry. do i need to turn this on? >> we will recite the line again. deliver the line again neil swidey. >> if your name, is it was or were? [laughter] remember rose. >> if your name were edward kennedy, edward moore, this, your candidacy would be a joke. >> and, he was right.

>> i think what is interesting, bella mentioned when he was 36, he was the patriarch of the family. the area i covered was the 1960's and 1962, he was considered a joke. he was unqualified for the race. it was interesting edward maccormack was talking about trading on your family name and eckford mccormack was trading on his family name. >> on the other hand-- >> brand against the republican, the sign of the lodge family did not even bring it up at that point because he knew he was treating his family name. everyone was, but, but six years, when you go from 62 to 68 is an enormous span in his life and the life of the country really because in 1962 i uncovered this letter from ted complaining to his father, again

these letters were priceless, saying that at the maccormack, this was before anyone had officially announced that eddie mccormack was convinced that teddy was not going to run and he was convinced because he had been at a reception in washington and bobby the attorney general had left him with praise. teddy went to bobby in said were you doing this? he said well, i will say some nice things about u2 if you want. bobby and jack did not want teddy to run and third advisors did not want them to run because they knew they were vulnerable because he was not ready. >> the arrogance of the family was they then met with eddie mccormack to find out what is price would be. >> with sipple mail-- tip o'neill as the intermediary. >> i want to move on because to this part of it, because it is interesting, for mccormack got

smashed. every none in massachusetts what outraged. mccormack god's matt because he realized life was and there but the interesting thing about teddy was within short order of that time he got elected all of a sudden the old sequoia's of the senate came to regard him for it differently than regarded his brothers. it is interesting and i think that goes to family birth order. he was the runt of the family, the youngest of nine. when he came to the senate the senate even more than today, much more than today was an old man's club, and they expected him to be a brat to kind of had the run of the place, who came in and traded on the family name and he didn't because he knew how to be deferential. he knew how to deal with elders fargo he also has an incredible social intelligence that i think his brothers didn't have in knowing how to size of situations in knowing how to read people, knowing how to be

self-deprecating. >> elders of the senate love that and served his purpose. he learned how to be a junior senator. >> he was more hard-working then his oldest brother had been in the senate for his next older brother who would be in the senate when he got elected. >> absolutely. jack and especially bobby where not equipped for the senate. bobby when he got elected to the senate as a sort of a kind of weigh station for running for the presidency, he would look around i think and kind of turn to teddy and say are you guys serious? this is what you do here? he was an executive. he became the executive of the family even more so than jack. teddy i understood how it worked and made it work for him. >> tense so, you have five years, five years of indescribable terror, grief, violence that we still all these

years later start trying to cope with, trying to get our heads around. we won't cover those five years but they are fairly well established. the last 50 years, 1960 probably the most or one of the most turbulent years in american history. then comes 1969, general russell, a reporter from the boston globe. your role here in the book is that crime reporter because 1969 of course this chappaquiddick and the stain that will go way. it is interesting to see the readers' comments on line to the globe and some of those comments you know, are very very hard. one of them, one of them my notes id was blunt, where was he when mary jo was taking her last breath before drowning? tell us what you found out and what ground u one covered?

b i think those comments are very striking because what is remarkable is how strongly people still feel about chappaquiddick and how much i think it has remained a real topic of conversation. you know, there is literally dozens of books that had been written just about chappaquiddick and so i started out, i just wanted to step back and started the beginning and go to the global archive and its remarkable resourced with the rich detail, hundreds of stories about the time and place that these events happened. >> you don't hold anything back in that. of course one of the knox agents the globe which is interesting in your coverage of kennedy is the association with the liberal senator who has been in the globe, has been his friend and protector for many years. you don't hold very much back here. the fact of the matter is, is it not to any other candidate he would not be in the senate very

much longer? >> i think that is probably very much true. so, it goes to the different time. but, i was really surprised to find how many people there still are to talk to who were there, the police chief who investigated, the ferryman who ran the chappaquiddick ferry at the time, the selectmen have helped kennedy get off the island and while there were many people who did not want to talk about chappaquiddick there were a lot of people we could still talk to. ..

>> if i am not mistaken you end with the report comedy and qwest and the statement of the judge? >> the judge did find there is reason to believe that kennedy was reckless and in part responsible for the death of mary jo and he did not believe the kennedy story. >> we cannot leave this subject because obviously i believe it was you spoke to joan kennedy?

>> and joan revealed details she has not reveal details as she has before? >> the toughest was that she was pregnant and already had a three kids already at the three miscarriages and she was on bed rest she had shots regularly and patrick was o all that the time and he accompanied to mary jo's funeral and the describes a bumpy airplane ride and when she got back she miscarried. and it to this day she is filled with pain and i think

she attributes that and attributes that to the airplane ride. >> and the obligation to go with her husband to the funeral. >> she was expected to be there. >> doesn't surprise to the level of our the depth of blame that goes on many years later for those who look at the senator? you hear these stories, i was at my old home in alaska last year the first thing we brought up to the center stage a senator is you let that girl diaper does that surprise you? >> it does. part of a feel comes out for the facts and there was such high hopes for kennedy before the accident broke that he would get to the presidency and there is bitterness because of that also

bitterness because of this sense that too much it has been seen with his tragedy would really the tragedy was of mary jo. >> those hopes never die there were hopes he would get into the 1968 race, in the 72 raise, it was looked at as it to soon. there was hopes sam ellison would get into the 1976 race. he did not do that then he finally gets into the 1980 race and does not seem to articulate where you're running and does not seem to do anything right. >> if i could kennedy and his close advisers in 1979 when he decided he was going to run

are not made a catastrophic mistake and concluded chappaquiddick would not be a major issue but they cannot have been more wrong. there was so many other huge issues to deal with in a country that it would not be a problem. it plagued him throughout the 1980 campaign which was a disaster. it played him, in 1984 people don't know he also ran for president again most people they he lost and 80 and he stayed in the senate but his staff prepared a detailed blueprint of how to run in 1984 hiring tim russert as press secretary and trying to get george wallace in horsemen but kennedy also had to look at. >> let the interrupt you but going back to 1980, that's was his real run.

and nothing seemed to work for him. talk about that estimate he was unprepared and it was clear from the beginning from the 336 rambling answer, i think he never wanted to run. i think his close advisers who had known him for years he knew he had to run at some point* he was getting the noise and then head for years and years when will you do? it was a part of the game when he would do with it, not if the definitely had to run. i think as much as anything else he ran is simply to get the noise out of his head. she was tired of that and he was unprepared as you saw from the very beginning from the speech but most unlike him he ran a very disorganized and messy campaign. he did not have any of the stuff together he had the fund raised properly he did not do

any of the stuff that a kennedy does to run. that went on and he was crucified in iowa because he was not ready. he did not think chappaquiddick would be an issue there but it was as in the illinois primary it came back to haunt him. >> you don't think he wanted to run and that was the problem? >> i think he was ambivalent he knew he had to run but as david. one of his old advisers told me, he never called me up at 2:00 in the morning and said i really want to run nobody could recall a private conversation when he expressed a passion to be president. >> is that why he was so terrific? then he started to win primaries? >> there is a lot of political physics that say you're always better when you don't have a chance dukakis was good the last couple weeks and that

happens all the time. [laughter] and he said i will be myself. but he was still nailed all lot. he was considered by congress people and maybe most people a bad loser. normally first the thought he would get out after illinois with a near zero chance then he stayed in throughout the end of the campaign than he would not quit and he took his side to the convention on the idea he would get a go through that would allow all the delegates that would be free to go for him and force jimmy connors to spend an enormous amount of time to spend on him that he could have devoted to ronald reagan. >> when people are at their

best when they are losing i don't think by that time ronald reagan had sewn up the republican nomination say you have this charismatic figure who is running on the total destruction of these programs in the '60s that are associated with ted and his brothers. they probably played into the sense of family obligation because even if he did not have the fire in his belly he felt like the kennedy legacy meant something. that is why his voice he became more of a liberal. >> when you have a sitting reagan president and 89 he was running against carter. he won new york, that carter. >> he was down almost 20 points a day of the primary. the pollsters had gotten a completely wrong the only one that got a right was the one

working for carter who said we will get creamed. he almost won by 20 points. >> mondale expects kennedy will be the nominee. mondale was the heir apparent too. >> he new of ted was going to run he did not have a chance so he was sitting on pins and needles waiting to make up his mind and you have reagan, a chappaquiddick that had ruined him in the 1980 campaign and he knew that would come back and continue to savage him. and his kids did not want him to do and eight large reason is they didn't want to do but there had to be other reasons of why. >> and the ark continues he runs a 80 and is badly be 10 does not run and 84 that is

about when i started to cover the senator. i remember it seems to me the list period in his career is what i saw late 80's, early 90's in which she seemed to be very nervous in public come on steady, and his problems with grammar were the stuff of legend we used to sit and the back of the room during a press conference and a mother and a predicate. there were aligned -- la la long roving sentences without a predicate in them. the worst is the public behavior with heavy drinking. to put it into context where a politics and personal behavior meet is in the end the death

hill hearings. >> it was preceded by the palm beach rape trial. somebody asked me in the arc of his life i may be prejudiced because of what i reported, what was the year that was the most defining of ted kennedy? maybe not in the legislative sense but in a personal sense or transformative cents in the culture or the media around him i would have to say 1991 was an extraordinary year. it was preceded by several well-publicized and will reported stories about his been shrinking and womanizing. he looked terrible and it was hard to turn on these night show or one of those and not catch a few ted kennedy jokes. of the year began easter weekend in palm beach the next thing the public knows the ted

kennedy's nephew has been accused of raping a girl with one of his sons there. ted vanishes from palm beach, there is a lot of suspicion over a cover-up. it was the first time as one of our correspondence said where the tabloid press the national inquires and the mainstream press like "the new york times" really converged and their coverage of a case. you have that going on then you move to the nomination of clarence thomas to the supreme court and kennedy had fought against the nomination and was perceived to be the key guide to take on an arch

conservative nominee to the court and into the process anita hill turns of suddenly the whole country is fixated on sexual harassment comment ted kennedy retreats into the background and does not say much during the hearings and everybody speculates because of tens own behavior. in the middle of that he goes to an anniversary party with some old friends from louisiana and and meats one of their daughter vicki. and very quietly begins a relationship that really i would argue totally transformed the last 5920 years of his life. you have all of this and then the year ends with a trial in palm beach and court tv had just come on the air progress

first kennedy's lawyers fought having cameras in the courtroom when all know about the court tv phenomenon now but they got in there and there is international attention on the trial and ted kennedy turns up and testify see is cool and calm and composed his nephew is acquitted and by the end of that year actually that trial until o.j. simpson was the most watched trial in u.s. history said you think about what was going on outside the senate or his political life or his personal life or the whole media environment around ted kennedy was an extraordinary 12 months. he came out of it still headed to the 1994 senate reelection race where he faced and irani where he would have his most formidable opponent.

but ready to put up an incredible fight. >> covering the campaign with mitt romney and susan milligan the washington send a reporter and the main reporter on senator kennedy for how many? [laughter] a number of years. going to the two of you ever like to close this part of the conversation with you. we need to dazed in addition to this scandal there have been legislative accomplishments that have gotten the attention and approval of the old sequoia in the senate and he has established a reputation of course, the senate is a more tolerant institution down the public.

his public reputation is as low as it can be in the beginning of the '90s. but your book is called the last line. the two review it seems to me are documenting the line and. talk about the campaign he faced by far the stiffest challenge in his life the polls showed him down by 1.at one time. at that point* labor rallied behind him in force hot and his consultants found a company ronny had arranged a takeover that they have laid off all of the workers although ronny was on the eve it was devastating -- , they put them on tv talking about how it felt to lose their jobs. that was a dagger blood of

of -- below the. >> how did kennedy feel afterwards? >> lucky. [laughter] jubilant, revitalized, he had tasted more toll political danger. >> he was in the whole and as sam said from 1980 largely that campaign was pretty flaccid to begin with, that organization. >> guess the old guard rallied the people that carried them through the middle stages of their career rushed to his side when he also found his voice in the debate he slammed down to the his command of policy details and command of the senate and his nimble feet and i know what you mean with the absence of the predicate but this time he was able to shape the enough coherent sentences to make his point*

romney left the stage flustered and defeated and never recovered from that night. >> you know, the work of the senate when it is legislative is the least covered the obese sexy to cover it is scandals or politics that draw a lot of attention. tell me how you saw kennedy working because it seems the accomplishments in the end are all of the day to day details and meetings and encounters a lobbying and phone calls. >> adam they do defined a sending senator who would not tell you that kennedy is easily the most effective member of the senate now and one of the most effective in history to say that their respective or whether or not i agree with him he has matured as a legislator which seems odd to say but if you look

back at the early days when he went up against nixon and nixon wanted a health-care plan that looks remarkably like what the democrats would love to get past with the employer provided and backed up by a government kennedy wanted a health-care plan and they had a second shot during the clinton and ministration that to not go anywhere. the senator, this is his third chance if he is seizing it. when he learned from that is sometimes you have to get the structure. he told me several years ago that maybe they should have done the at the nixon health-care plan and fixed details later. he have used it days when to do things incrementally and he has been a big leader of the immigration debate and he is so good at pulling them

together it is so bizarre to see people like diane feinstein, barack obama, mel martinez from florida, lindsey graham a conservative from south carolina, who does not really like the idea of the migrants taking jobs and he sits and writes this bill he made everybody go around and talk about how their families came to america. it brought people together and made them realize the bigger picture. he almost got and it failed and i was talking to him after and i said i know you were tired and he said with any legislation that is civil-rights and he considered immigration to be that he said it takes three congress the first time they have to get used to the idea the second time you fight and the third time it goes through. he has done that with so many bills to come back year after year even since barack obama

was elected he got the lilly ledbetter act signed which gives more opportunity for pay discrimination he got the genetic nondiscrimination act he was fighting that 10 years produce very good at picking his moments and working with republicans with a very close relationship with a senator had to does not drink or smoke and one of the most conservative human beings. [laughter] and they work really well together they have an odd relationship but they work well. >> it is striking with all of the partisanship to look again at their readers' comments, you see the villagization, the hostility some strong disagreement and condemnation at the same time it all has built up since the early 90's left over from

chappaquiddick but especially he has been more effective than ever dealing with people in the senate. >> he is very well respected and hard work is respected by everybody no matter who it is. hillary clinton had not issues of personal behavior but people wondering if she was trading on her name and she hunkered down and he knows how to play people. that we were wondering how he tried to negotiate he was the cigar smoke being so he tripped over and he brought a manila envelope and he had good cigars and he opened the envelope and they sat down and the more the dialogue went kennedy's way he would push the envelope and when he did he would pull back and broke

thought it was hilarious. he got a deal the he is very good at picking people out and people you would not expect. [laughter] he finds a way to find common ground. it is funny because people have an idea that when you know, him personally he is totally normal antoine of the least pretense if people and paradoxically that becomes more powerful because he is such a big figure if you're sitting in an office with all of these mementos and a hand written note from j.f. kennedy asked if he can be his godfather and telling a story about his dog and is more powerful because you cannot escape the history but he does that with new members. he will bring them into his hideaway and flatter them with the attention from the senior senator. >> i cannot go but think that

goes back to being the nine children the fact there is no sense of entitlement. >> right. he was born with the silver spoon in his mouth by joe especially was adamant that his kids not be spoiled. he gave them $1.50 per week for allowance and win teddy was that academy he wrote his father and said can i have my bicycle? he said how many kids have their bicycles? he said just a few. no. you cannot have something no one else has the same thing at harvard. he had a cow corn on his car and joe found out and had a fit and said you cannot draw attention to yourself. it is okay if you earn on your own merits but but not just

buy it. >> we will open this conversation up if anyone has a question comes down and ask our candidates on the panel. [applause] the microphone is over here. you come back after all of this is a very powerful one moment and apparently had happened several times. i think he is walking in the mall and a car backfires? tell that story. >> is chief counsel on the

labor committee and a senator walking back from the capital to the office building and a car backfired. rollins looked around for the senator he was on the ground. he heard something like that and his family history was said she did not fool around he looked up and said you never know. [laughter] >> if you think about 1968 the craziness of 1968 and not knowing how much worse it was going to get it, ted kennedy after seeing his brother assassinated within months is asked to be the nominee of the democratic party. mayor daley in chicago was convinced they could not win proposal you can imagine as a

fragile emotional state then being asked to save the party. i think that illustrates the. >> i was struck with the plane crash than march's 64? so in a period of half a year his brother is murdered and he is almost killed in a plane crash where two people are killed and jerry told me last year that he had flat mind that night in the hospital. >> yes. it was very, very close to the end in the hospital. and by the way while he was recuperating he did change and become more serious and he had

clinics every week and people would come in because he was strapped in this bed four months at a time. one of the letters he got during that time was telling him to work on his speeches and his grammar. [laughter] >> and jerry, his campaign manager told me he believes while on his back with a broken back he started to think about what other people who did not have them means went through with a devastating illness. >> the passage for health care began in that bed. >> my question is addressed to all of the authors and how did your perception of senator kennedy change from the end stages that was mentioned

earlier and with the opinions of the senator and if you did have an opinion before how did it change? >> i thought i knew a lot about him and i didn't after a finish my reporting i ended up liking him a lot more. >> it would be hard to live in massachusetts and not have opinions about ted kennedy. it was not so much opinions that began to crystallize but the themes and dimension and a lot perspective and during that time it alluded to womanizing these random relationships people were telling me how lonely he was. that did not match up with this playboy party boy but it

did a match up with what we knew about him as a child and certain they contrast sharply alpha filled and a stable he seemed in his second marriage i think it was that kind of resonance that did have an effect on how you felt or perceive this man. >> with my own reporting he is such a gregarious person i was surprised to find out how long the he was as a child and even as an adult but the other thing i thought i knew him so well how he operated on the hill and everybody iran into have some story to tell me about senator voinovich two is a poker face to senator from ohio and told me he almost broke down and told me when his nephew got bone cancer he reached out to kennedy and had

experience and wanted to make sure his nephew was getting the right treatment and he said kennedy not only came through but his nephew sent him a painting and i just kept hearing more and more stories like that the more i interviewed people on the hill. >> talking about his loneliness he was 10 the schools in 10 years? >> yes. he is not one to feel sorry for himself for complain he is optimistic but that was very tough for him. >> thank you all for the great portrait of kennedy as he changed we're all constituents how has the constituency changed and how do attribute the changes to the behavior of a politician? >> district of columbia?

[laughter] that is another issue. >> the constituency changes with the best of times and for the generation that supported jack and ted throughout his career he has made strides to understand the biotech sector and the technology sector he identified it and rightly so to champion the causes of the blue-collar union members but also understood massachusetts had to move with the times and tried to find ways to do so if you talk to any health care executive, met kennedy is a brain maker is. >> that change in constituency is a change in brother we should acknowledge them as making tad has been involved

with, with his brother jack to was not nearly as liberal. it. >> i think it is an important observation people refer to ted kennedy as being in trapped by these comparisons, but yet a very positive image that jack and bobby have partly influenced buy tens depictions of them. one area may be civil-rights there have been holed books written how jack kennedy was a late comer although he did embrace it and the final year of his presidency but when ted became the primary sponsor he delivered a strong speech referring to that act as the dying wish of his brother the president which i think invested jack kennedy within ability and passion people feel that he did not have.

likewise tense eulogy who is one of the most defining images of bobby kennedy. he worked with joe mccarthy his brother's campaign manager, had portrayed him as a simple man who'd shot saw a war and tried to stop it he portrays bobby in the way he wanted although the irony although ted was compared to those two unfavorably he was trapping himself this. >> a much different city and state now than it was in the 1960's. of the change in the constituents it changed the senator's politics? >> these changes early of the kennedys were good had having

two with him being one step ahead of their base to bring them along. i think what you saw in the '60s was ted being a couple of outpaces ahead of his base the with the irish community there were favored under the old immigration plan. their working-class white voters based on his support and affirmative action and other things. i think you can see earlier signs of those changes. >> my question he may have touched upon this but one are two major pieces of legislation where he championed during his career? >> he would probably say health care in general probably bits and pieces

weathered cobra, and had but and of the alphabet soup there are injuring things like the immigration act of 64/65 that and the fight the civil rights of which barack obama would not be our president today nudges because of the legislation kennedy championed but if not for the redoing the the immigration act and no longer based on quotas or family connections or ability brock obama's father would not have come here. >> two big ones in the '80s 1981 the first year he was back in this and that he ended up leading the fight for a continuation of the voting rights act and he ended up leading that that was the first year back in the senate and the civil-rights restoration act and the

becoming law he started that in 1994 which means he is willing to take time to get it done. of the vote he is most product than it is his entire senate career is the vote against iraq [applause] >> thank you for the excellent book but i have one question, if chappaquiddick did not happen to think kennedy would have become president? how would he have done? >> . >> that was the year after watergate and a very strong year for democrats.

i think he probably would have entertained the possibility but nixon was popular enough and things were moving along that he may have delayed until 76 but as many people have pointed out if he became president then his career would be over by 1984 which he would have been eliminated 25 years of active service. >> [inaudible] >> anything is possible in that case. >> religion played an increasing role over the last 25 years project with regard to the catholic what are your feelings why he is such a lightning rod with his cpus on abortion are distinguishable

from any other democrat and went on so many other moral issues like being an advocate for property and even one of the most articulate spokesman for the abortion production strategy which the obama campaign to again, religion and politics why is ted kennedy right at the front? >> richard i agree who wishes it -- i said talk about kennedy haters. he said is stems from the personal behavior and he held that against him forever and you simply cannot excuse again chappaquiddick and that simply rises above all of the other stuff and keeps him and low

estimation within the church, a lot of the churches and we can never buy back. he has lived without for the rest of his life. >> it is interesting change his relationship with the church. here is someone two if i am not mistaken was baptized, baptized by the pope or had first communion? he was at the vatican for his first communion? thank you. first communion. the kennedys were very close to the church and that proximity extended into politics to the point* 1969 was a call from the cardinal urging her not to have an autopsy for her daughter so there is a close proximity to the church with the kennedys. but that it is partly because

of the issue of the divorce. >> however they were well within the church plus a the divorce his stance against abortion and the personal behavior does that cover any of the issues? >> in the '94 campaign he was on the other side of the issue because remember in the heat of the battle when it was really close between ronny and ted kennedy, joe kennedy, a tense nephew famously was on the campaign stump that anti-criticized the mormon church for the exclusionary policies against african americans and women it was felt this was a serious breach of contract because when jack

kennedy had run for president the whole issue was the irish tactic -- catholics when he read the first catholic president? and ronny felt very bitter about the issue being raised and demanded an apology and tavistock cup for joe and said it is legitimate. it was not the defining moment in the race but actually went back and uncovered two months after the election which i have forgotten he had written a place for "the boston globe" saying he was absolutely steamrolled by the kennedy people and in particular on that issue and the peace is dripping with bitterness but after that ronny and kennedy as i and a stand it for j good relationship projected the when he is governor.

>> there are not many cases of , or washington that is one of them. the other is what sam -- sam allis said that carter blamed his petulance up the convention and four syncing the campaign. there are not too many other stories are there? >> this was the one with this issue it was balancing politics with his petulance and it was a rare, i said this is not typical of ted kennedy nor was his outrageous performance don't forget to hold up your hand and he did not do it and he hid in the sea of suits and ultimately shook his hand that is a very

rare occasion for someone who was known with great grace and agree to manners so those stand out. >> thank you so much for this opportunity to night. i want to ask you both fact as historians and reporters and i want to ask very soon massachusetts will have to see a new young senator maybe not too soon but it is in the foreseeable future. do see in this modern youtube enhanced to know everything immediately age is there a possibility to create a dynasty that kennedy created over the last few decades? >> we have seen more dynasties in politics lately and it is partly because of fund-raising. there is a new wrinkle with the on-line fund-raising and real obama campaign may take

away the advantages the traditional names have but you also raise an interesting point* which is the kennedys rose to power at a time when the media was quite willing to consider it not their business to look into people's conduct and things would have been toxic. would ted kennedy have more trouble? that is probably right but i think the technology and the more immediate enhanced campaign can make a more fertile ground for dynasty and politics. >> i want to express appreciation for the

collaboration as a reader i was in shock. rethink the first day of the series i thought oh my god this is an obituary why didn't i know about this? but i like the integrity it is the collaboration it did not gloss over the 80 nation or the loneliness or what happened with chappaquiddick but on the subject of chappaquiddick and what happened in makes me think now recently, the one woman found murdered and did absolutely destroyed -- gary was not the call prattle just because they had an affair briefly and he was plummeted and destroyed and condemned and kennedy

because of who he is did get reelected even though he has redeemed himself. but i find that to be quite a paradox bright don't know if you had thought about it? i just wanted to share that. >> it is very hard i think in this age that we live been to look back at what happened after chappaquiddick to understand how it could have been possible for him to resume his career. i think part of it is the point* that peter madoff of the media and a different time and a different level of scrutiny but there was a huge amount of criticism of him afterwards. i don't know that i can fully explain the willingness that people had especially voters in massachusetts to look pass that except maybe hit in some way that i thought about not

to this great of degree but people can relate to that to using poor judgment and then have the black mark against you and your record something you cannot escape the rest of your life and i think. >> shin shirley b. who lived two blocks from my house that was a situation that it was not a car accident that was the out and out a brutal murder and they just recently made an arrest but that had a whole different twist. >> and 80 he was not prepared for chappaquiddick it did not come up when he ran for

reelection and he was handily reelected. >> i will set this up a little my name is john f. fitzgerald. [laughter] i was at the 1952 debate with kennedy and mccormick i was then that auditorium routine for eddie mccormack the reason why i was named after kennedy's grandfather was the mayor of boston mitel goal was one of the chief aides in washington for over 35 years. i was campaigning for eddie mccormack and i came at of that debate everybody thought 81 negative election because he did. when you walked out the door you knew he did not when he went home you knew he did not. i did read the articles i read all of the articles i am a

political science major provide went around the country by had to get the book because there is a lot of details but here is the question. the mccormick campaign of 52 i was in the campaign with kennedy and helped to organize some of the union but in 62 someone said what would it have taken to get eddie out of the campaign? i did not read the book so i am not sure but i will give you might take if you want just in case. i was 18 at the time. the speaker and the senator it

tried to get at eddy to run for governor. but i recall i think the president was willing to make at the think he was the secretary of the state and i am wondering what is your take blacks. >> i am laughing because i am so into this with you and it is like half a century ago and i you thinking of the inside politics. i have to tell you go to the jfk library listen to the tapes you'll still grew 24 eddie. we will be routine for him. >> i will just say that s he

said to me at breakfast i want to endorse him because we have become great friends is the greatest ever hit the united states. >> quickly i would say that there were negotiations that went on and i talk to his son about that and the campaign manager and basically he felt it was this time they thought there would make a move and his wife at the time was dead set against kennedy waltzing in and she was probably more so opposed to stepping aside but they did become close years later. >> disrespect to eddie who

called the kennedy the best senator never had but eddie mccormack a fabulous civil-rights record low before the kennedys were involved he was involved in the civil-rights movement and he was out of character that night and he said that. thank you. go-ahead. >> 84 a great panel. a quick question that is open for everybody is a little vague but i hope it will be fruitful. jfk had a call to public-service and we all as constituents have certain expectations what are ted kennedy's expectations of citizens? >> actually one of the bills he is working on write now is a bill to expand volunteerism with starting with young children to people who are

retired and taking a sabbatical for six months or one year to do volunteer work. he is still working on that. >> one institution that ted kennedy has poured his heart and soul into is the institute of politics. between negative and his senate office that is a training ground for extraordinary men and women going into all areas of politics and public service, this may be a little different from what you're asking about with common citizens but many look to kennedy's legacy in part as training and inspiring an extraordinary number an incredible men and women including the supreme court justice stephen briar pro the

is something you see best when you step back and take a look at all whole career. >> we could not finished the night without the obama question why did senator kennedy endorse barack obama and get carolina or the reverse, i don't know but you must comment on the because of obviously impacts of future so dramatically. >> i thought for a longtime kennedy would endorse obama's because i could see it in his face when he would talk about him he got a look i could tell he saw something that he liked when obama came then he got them on the pension committee, brought him into the immigration debate and he saw someone who could carry on the legacy of his brothers and 72 would be a historic presidency in terms of

civil-rights but i think that is what and did it for him progress for caroline, ? >> she wrote the op-ed piece. >> yes. that was planned. they were talking about it he sat down with the nieces and nephews he would make the announcement on monday and she would do the op-ed on sunday. >> and a obama's somebody to energize young voters and kennedy always listens to his nieces and nephews and they were excited about him the flip side of the patriarch once they achieve dole -- adulthood he takes their views very seriously and it was the culmination of the civil-rights battle. >> he has a lot of respect for senator clinton and he helped a lot when she first came to

the senate because but they never clicked she is a different kind of legislator she is more from a period and he is more down here and she is a very hard worker and she is really so knowledgeable on policy but she does not operate the same way subtlety he ended up having quite the relationship with her that he thought that he might. >> thank you very much. unless 75 years in about 90 minutes. we could go a lot longer. you have been a terrific audience broke [applause] thank you to our writers and the editor of "the boston globe". [applause]

of the writers will be outside autographing the books as you leave. thank you for coming. you have been terrific. . .