extremely well. >> and struck out a few guys. and it showed. >> and on the outside part of the plate. >> he had us going there: and 7th inning. heand 1-1. and then adam got the business base hit. to put it through the one. >> macdougal goes up. >> and which we saw earlier. and knot able to close it. >> and do the job. >> they are upstairs. >> they are good it is that looked like he was that clothe. >> and i mean terrific is a

good good work. >> and talk about the on three pitches for every batter. > ing 11 pounds. >> and ground ball out this monday. >> me you are 24 years old. >> he knows what at the vast to do. >> he looks forward to the starts. >> and he didn't get the oneing to. en and put them in the ball game d that's what you get paid to do at the major league level. you are paid to go out there. and them the team. >> and he stops streaks. >> and call in life. >> a good week. with the four game sweep at the handses of the cuband the nat it is lose monday night.

and from tuesday on. they won four tout of six. we will take the very. >> you are not kissen. >> and talk about this one. >> and us aston is sun a pro. and professional at bat. and drove it. you know, we use hum as an example. and being a pro. he is in a tough situation. >> and not get to go to play. and does his work every day. and get ready for those and couldn't be happier for anyone to get the big hard. >> and we never get to that point. >> because, i am really happy

for the ball club. and austin in particular. >> he was in line for his eighth incompetence win. and the way he helps themselves toe sleeve. >> he continues to show. >> he is overpowering to the lit hers. >> and just, you know, do all the stuff they teach them to low and you know. >> he is out tanning. >> and selection stuff. >> if it anti. >> and if you went from a third to no. >> you know, obviously. you take the whole quleer. >> and maybe the mimes were

there. >> the numbers at that p and hinl him. >> and just trying to gent the ball and you know, it is kind of what you do. >> very testify though. you never laked to take a guy out that was throwing that good and i felt good about putting mcdougle in. and if your starter goes seven or eight and you know, it just didn't happen today. but he through the ball too. >> after the one the other night when you had a little bit of discussion with the team. you have to see the dividends over the last two day it is. >> we have wound and all four

of them. >> and very good defense. >> that's the common denominator. and the win wins weren't when we necessarily got hits. and won the ball games. and we punished good. >> and ran the bases. >> and so. >> the game it is where we made errors we lose. >> it is coming down to and obviously: he had the you know, in the ninth. eighth. ninth. tenth, inning situations. >> you want to get them in second am and if you do the mast. and at stick it is.

>> and they took the body ought. >> anacin would get a get one. and you know, if you left swillie swing. and drive one. >> you can go either way with it. and he put the bunt down. >> that is good baseball. >> he executed his part of it very well. >> the national skipper and the and they beat the padres. and now in extra innings. and they are four and eight. johnny holliday. ray knight. post game roll it is on after this.

from that first dollar forward, cash flow isn't just an important thing to small business. it's everything. that's why pnc is introducing your new cfo,

cash flow options designed to effectively improve your cash flow. cfo helps every dollar work harder. from the very first dollar to the last dollar of the day. get in touch with your new cfo. pnc. leading the way. i just gave you some at the restaurant. yea i know. i threw them out. they were old so... old! they are rollover minutes. they are as good as new. ya know not everyone gets to keep their unused minutes. and these days we can't afford to be wasteful. saving minutes... ...saves money. yea. (announcer) only at&t's familytalk with rollover saves your family's unused minutes. and saving minutes saves money. for back to school, get the pantech matrix for $29.99 after mail-in rebate.  . nats extra post game show 

brought to you by: johnnie halladay and and ray knight. >> they arage when you play defense. you get good pitching and no errors and no runs and pitches well. and you think we have turned the corner t and it depends on. >> i do remember that. >> depends on the next day. if the defense is solid. as we said. the last time we scored a lot of runs. and they scored three a go game. and here, in the 11 games they managed and just short of what they scored for manny. and that's an example or sample to realize we have to pitch.

>> he is going for his eighth win and mowed him down for the first five innings. >> he did, john. amazing and get them out and grounds ball outs. at one point, he through 11 straight first pitch strikes. in the fifth inning, he only had 43 pitches and 36 of those were strikes. that is 84% vikes. we have not had anybody. jean john lannan that strong as far as percentage of strike. and ground out in the third on a change-up and then gets a ground out to short. and ground out to second. and four pitches in this inning. and today. 13 pitches. and nine in the third. and six in the fourth. and only four pitches in the fifth. sixth inning he comes back. and high fastball. and double to center field. and kouzmanoff and then another

fastball. venable scores by the diving josh willing ham and put him up 1-0. and able to get ground paves to finish his outing in the seventh. and that's just, he cannot pitch any better. nothing you can see. not enough superlatives to express. he is 7-7. and he could be 10-4 easily if our ball club would score for him. >> his control is incredible. one walk you see there. 81 pitches and 22 of those were balls today. gives up the five hits and one earned run and goes the eight innings and looked like he could get the win until he gave up the ball in the 9th inning. >> our closers don't know how to close. and like he said, i sat behind home plate. he has a good slider.

he has a tough time dealing it. and you can't get through the league over and over again. and he struck out last night. and on sliders. if you strike out on sliders. three times in a row. he is going to be able to hit the fastball. and he did. >> fastball, right down the plate and to leftfield. and doesn't matter t if it is 97, 98 miles an hour. and that's the only pitch he can hit. and match up between a guy. and against the guy who is a fastball hitter and they are going to win it. >> at one point, they had three base hits and john lannan had two of it. and in his career in the major league and trying to do everything he could to help the club. >> i saw that last night in martin and i like hitters that battle. >> do you remember pitchers that battle as hitters. >> he went in there.

and went back to the dugout and john lannan has a competitor in him to accept going up there. and he has a challenge to him. >> i used to like to say. i love my mother to death but i was going to beat her in checkers every chance i got. >> well, nyjer morgan has no mercy on the pitchers when he comes on. we will hear from the center fielder who causes all kind of havoc when he gets on bases. we will be back with more. it'. - it's on. - it is totally on. it'. jimmy, it's on. it's on. oh, yeah, it's on. pilot: affirmative, it's on.

are you insured? do you know when your beer is perfectly cold? or do you risk drinking a warm one? if you have the new coors light cold-activated can, you're covered. because now every can turns blue when your beer... is as cold as the rockies. it's cold insurance, only from coors light. cold beer: that's our policy. frost-brewed coors light. the world's most refreshing beer.  . they are getting set to to milwaukee. the nats extra pregame starting at 7:30 and the afternoon game on thursday. that's a 2:00 start. we will be with you at 1:30 and then the pirates beginning at seven. nyjer morgan scores the winning run today against the padres

and in the 10 inning. asked how is he doyne. how is he feeling. >> i feel good t legs are a little sore s and one of the things where you get the aches and pains and where i was a little score and i am good. >> what did you think of the at bat by austin kearns. >> i thought it was a great at bat and the ball was away and shot it away like you are supposed to do. >> john lannan could win the game and earn his eighth. your thoughts on him. >> you know, all we ask for is keep us in the game and we will do the rest and we definitely have good pitches and that is in the game. >> and when you win the series. it is against the mets. >> that is something to build upon. isn't it. >> we have to keep it going and keep consistent. >> looking ahead to milwaukee.

you get suppan. >> good. and crafty guys. he will keep us off balance. but he is a good pitcher. >> thank you. >> all right. >> nyjer morgan and joining the club. and 13th run for the nationals. >> he is doing pretty much in the at bat for what he is doing on the mound. to help the ball club with his legs and club and back. >> little spark in the team. >> tremendous spark for the ball club. >> i didn't realize he is at good as he is. >> i didn't know we require one that we will be able to ignite the offense and with his leg and bat. and shore up the defense as well with his glove and feet. >> and we are sitting right here watching him play and when pittsburgh comes. nice to have you. >> great to see austin kearns coming through. with the 10 inning. game winning single and winning it. and we will continue with more.

of nats extra post game and beautiful sunday in nats down. >> beautiful. of course. any time the nats win, it is beautiful. 

 . welcome back. it is brought in part by verizon and this is fuos and this is big. big days for the nationals and austin kearns and joe beimel picks up the win and comes out. and 1-5 and head to milwaukee for them stammen against suppan. >> what was i saying he said before the game. >> lannan and stammen. >> and famine. >> and come on, john. >> stammen has moved up. in the rotation. >> and it is 15 years. and not going to strike out too often. >> and gives up a lot of hits.

and four run average this year and guy we ought to be able to get to. and not going to do it with the wild thing and down with this. and sinker. >> sun -- suppan. and 3-1/3rd. and seven loss. >> four of his six innings. he has gone out and given up hits. and throughout the five innings. he is a defy you can hit to. and pitches the contact. you see the 49 walks interest and doesn't look like he is fixing in to contact. and almost as many people as he struck out. >> he has the complete game. with the houston astros. and 13-2. and he is doing what lannan did

today. >> i like him almost as much as i do lannan. and stammen is solid. over the last. seven or eight starts. and lowing a lot of strikes. and anybody but lannan and able to stay. and down in the trike zone and keep us in the ball game. and very, very effective. >> you know what is interesting. see if you get the same thing i get. when you get it. you let it get away and home run. and you come back to win in extra innings. that has got to do something for the club. >> we have gotten behind. and lost least and we have the last at bats and come back from adversity. i can't remember the last time. >> and giving it away. and come back. and turn the game around. and get a w in our column. >> and in the thick of things and that's the division. >> and two and a half games behind and in fourth place. >> that's a tough decision.

>> they are solid. playing pretty good. and beginning to play better. >> that is going down. just like last year. >> getting it matt holliday, can you remember that. three hits in his first ball game. if we wanted one player, a we can ago when we knew matt holliday was available. wouldn't it be good for our hitter. you informed me. he got traded to the cardinals. >> it has been a terrific sunday here at the park. great crowd on hand. couldn't asked for a finer ending and nationals win it. and austin kearns, thanks for joining us. they won four of the last six and take the winning streak to milwaukee. we will see you tomorrow night. thanks for joining us on this sunday.

announcer: during the autobahn for all event, you can get great lease deals. i love it! i just want to know it's the right move. me? thirteen days in the future. you get a deal on the car you always wanted. scheduled maintenance is included, it's all good. what's the future like? you love your new jetta. and the suit? you like it? no...i love it! eastern. great conversations with rich rodriguez, head coach of

michigan. jim tressel at ohio state it's all coming up beginning tomorrow on espnews. suspended spent cup owner and driver jeremy maffled has sold his hauler and entire inventory of cars and parts to john carter to plans to compete on the circuit for thes rest of the season. one of the cars was used by labonte today at the brickyard 400. mayfield was suspended may theth for testing positive for methamphetamines. other news, michael phelps and the men's swimming team won the 4 x 100-meter relay at the world championships. erik bedard back on the dl with inflation to his pitching shoulder. and joseph balloter will personally extend an invitation to president obama to attend the 2010 world cup. top stories on the way on

espnews, including induction ceremonies at the 2009 baseball hall of fame. some poignant comments from rickey henderson and jim rice. and we'll have the very latest from the brickyard 400. why juan pueblo montoya was dealt with by

>> for those of you watching us on espn2, we'll return you to

your regularly-scheduled program. for those watching espnews, we continue with the induction at the baseball hall of fame and the brickyard 400 at indianapolis motor speedway next on espnews, another day, another trade offer for robisski holiday. what the phills have on the table and whether the jays will bite the hallowed halls of cooperstown welcome rickey henderson and jim rice. we'll hear from the class of 2009. the most famous track in indy racing plays host to the spent t cup racing. and the road to super bow super.

>> and with that we say welcome inside the espnewsroom. kevin connors here keeping you current with the latest news, scores and highlights. we'll hear from rickey henderson on the day he's inducted into the baseball hall of fame. let's get you started with the pair of rooms rickey once played for. yankees and a's. yanks looking to get back on the horse after seeing their eight-game win streak come to an end on saturday. bases loaded in the second inning for robinson cano. just out of the reach is eric patterson. all three runs come around to score. cano with overslide the bag at third base, thrown out. the damage done. yanks grab a 4-2 lead. fast-forward to the top of the sixth mark ellis, fourth home run of the season. first home run since july 12th. a's led by four. the bottom of the innings, derek jeter gets those two runs back. twyanks grab a the lead and wint

by-final of 7-5. rivera knocks down his 25th save of the season in the bottom of the of the eighth inning to get the yanks out of a jam. for jeter, it's his third straight game with two rbis. that's the 2,077th game of his career. he passes bernie williams for fifth most in yankees history red sox after that yankee victory, two games back of the yanks atop the a.l. east. top of the third inning, markakis off john motel. one comes around to score. o's grab a 2-0 lead. top of the fifth, markakis gets in one again of smoltz. smoltz gives up earned runs over five innings, nine hits. the o's win by a final of 6-2. so smoltz drops to 1-4 now on

the season. 24-year-old david hernandez picks up the win. he goes seven innings, one earned run, two strikeouts. he's allowed three earned runs or fewer now in five consecutive. >> all right, braves and jays on dog days at rogers centre bottom of the fourth inning, scott rolen off jeff niemann. that's the 14th home run for toronto in the past seven days. jays took a 3-0 lead.rst top of the sixth, same score, carl crawford off brett cecil, making this one interesting. later in the inning, in fact, rays a chance to take the lead, but cecil bears down, gets pat burrell looking. works out of a jam. goes seven innings, seven strikeouts in a 5-1 blue jays win. rolen goes 2 for 4, the three rbis, taking a season high. niemann takes the loss. his first since may 28 the

phillies say they don't want roy halladay, not if it means giving up jay happen and their position pitching and position player prospects. the phills have taken both drabek and brown off the table according to espn.com's jayson stark a reminder that espnews will be on top of every deal made prior to the trade deadline on friday. coverage begins at noon eastern. time and a half for the "baseball tonight" gang. that's all day on friday beginning at noon eastern here on espnews. cardinals have already upgraded. bottom three, i mean when philly is hitting, there aren't too many teams better in the majors. that's chase utley a two-run homer. then in the fifth inning, ryan howard. behave came off todd wellmire.

bottom seventh, ibanyez's 26th home run of the year. who needs roy halladay when the bats can do that? phills go on to pound the cardinals into submission. a mine final of 9-2. joe blanton picks up the win. he's now 7-4 on the season. blanton has given up just four runs in four starts in the month of july. all right, it's just gone final. mets and astros, jerry manuel and company gunning for their first road series win since early june. top three, luis castillo 3-3 game the. in the fourth inning, triple brings in alex cora.

then jeremy reed, say it ain't so, a trio of the mets win by a final of 8-3. livan hernandez, his seventh win of the season, strikes out seven over seven innings. david wright goes 2 for 5 with a pair of runs scored and a pair of rbis. cubs and reds the cubs have battled back, and chicago hitting awfully well as of late fukudome two rbis. when it goes final, we'll bring you the highlight highlights on.

>> racing at the brickyard 400, about six laps to go, jimmie johnson is in the lead. he took the lead in lap 137. the sixth different leader in the race today. mark martin, who has won four times on the sprint cup series this year is in second. greg biffle in third. overall points leader tony stewart is in fourth place overall. juan pueblo montoya, he was flagged for speeding on pit road.you know he's already led more laps today than he had his entire sprint at cup career entering this race. we want to take you out to thea finish. dr. jerry punch and company with the finish of the brickyard 400a >> working his way up there.

you can see tony stewart right behind him. >> if tony can hold on, finish t in the fourth position, he will gain in the points standings. right now he has 187-point lead over jimmie johnson in. stewart the leader, then johnson, and jeff gordon would move back to third in the wou standless. >> don't forget, when we came into this race, greg biffle was outside the race looking in. he's now in the race..sh he'll move up a couple of potsme to 11th. >> biffle was ninth a couple weeks ago, but the abysmal finish in chicago cost him two positions. behind these two, brian havingers having a great ru today. he's been in the istop five all afternoon. a very consistent run for the red bull team. there's vickers. >> behind me you can see kevin harvick having the best day of his year so far. and with just five to go, the 5 car is moving in.go.

>> it doesn't take much. looks like he's decided now'so the m time to make his run at jimmie johnson. jimmie is trying to pull downh e any draft.at'sus gustafson is talking to his driver, mark martin. >> we told you the last three years the driver who led with 10 laps to go has not won the racen jimmery johnson led with 10 laps to go today. >> i tell you, folks, if you don't think these guys are driving, you can see the back o the cars wiggle as they came out of the turn one. >> this track is doubly hard, because it takes discipline on these flat tracks, too, not to make a mistake. your intent is to really go after it.on is that can hurt you sometimes.at >> in the 15-year history ofsomt this brickyard 400, there has never been a last lappas for the victory. but that could change. >> could change. victory. we've got three laps to go herea when we come by. come

these cars are so equallyhese matched >> teammates so much respect with these two drivers driving for rick hendrik. jimmie johnson a three-time champion. here's a couple of guys still pushing and shoving on the racetrack. >> the rookie logano not taking it from montoya. and montoya not taking it from logano. >> montoya gets the spot.ot look at mark trying to make a big change in that case as they were convicted and then went to this judge, judge akin who had to decide she was going to use this thing, this terrorism enhancement sentencing act because it hadn't been used up to that point and she decided to use it. and at that point, sort of the rules changed for everything and a big chill went through the whole movement. the last piece of the terrorism

laws the increased now is in 2006 congress finally put some teeth into this thing they had passed in 1992 and they changed the name of it and called the animal enterprise terrorism act and quickly used that against activists in new jersey. i know we've been kind of running along here but i want to talk a teeny bit about what happened with that and then what happened with rod. there was one group in new jersey called shac, stop hunting animal cruelty movement. the main thing they did was they had a website command the website had the names and addresses of the executives from a company called huntington life sciences company to do testing. somebody, not the guys from s.h.a.c. used those addresses. whether or not they saw them on

the website is totally in question because we don't know who did it, to address some of those executives and one of them even in fact a pipe bomb was left in their house. not sure if that exploded or didn't explode but sort of material on that. they went after -- they couldn't catch the people that did the things so they went after the people that made the website and creamed them all. they got sentences as much as six years. and they got terrorism sentences and one of them was sent to a unit in the federal prison that is built for terrorists for building a website. >> [inaudible] >> absolutely. yeah. so right away there's this first amendment problem going on here, so suddenly do you really want to have your website out there? because there may be some person who says on salles on dean's website that i could make a bomb and go to somebody's house, you know, and then the trees it back to dean. the other thing that happened,

which is why i started writing this book was in 2007, well, no, backtrack. in 2003 rod made a speech, a pretty normal routine speech for him and san diego. it was a public speech. the public was invited. there was like 100 some people there, as usual there were also under cover agents because to go to all of his. but he's used to that so he doesn't pull punches when he does his things. he says i'm talking to the agents. i'm talking to everybody. he was right, they were out there and in the parking lot riding everybody's license plate number. he gave his regular speech that he gives which talks about his life as a native american, his life and authorization by back, the one he'd been in jail if four. he went through the polish deal that at the end of the speech somebody asked a question basically asking how did you make these incendiary is, how easy are these things to make so he grabbed a jug of apple juice

and says what kind of like this and he described it really quickly. in years went by. nothing happened. but two and a half years later they bostick him for that speech saying that that might he had taught everybody how to make an incendiary. there was a law that was put on the books that's only been used to times as far as i know that body by in feinstein and joe biden that makes it illegal to teach people how to make bombs and i decided that speech broke that law, but which only have i think the penalty was like two years or five years or something like that for breaking this law. but the key piece was the u.s. prosecutor came to rod's lawyer and said we can give him the terrorism enhancement for this and we can give him 18 years. so the immediately started fighting it and he beaded basically. he got a hung jury. they basically did him by yet that it was -- it was the first

amendment case. they basically had to buy that it was incitement and it was 11 to one. but prosecutors came back and said we have a whole bunch of other speeches on tape and we can just keep doing this. so he took a plea because he has little kids now and he didn't want to be in jail forever or be in court for ever so he took -- in march and now he lives in grand rapids, michigan, with his son who lives there and the daughter of his wife, whom he recently married. so he's trying to put his family back together and they are making it as difficult as possible. and i think that -- we both feel the book is playing into that. they can't really punish -- i shouldn't say that. i was going to say they can't really punish me for doing a book but -- [laughter] maybe they can. but they are definitely punishing him for it. so, they're going after him for putting out this information and for talking to me and for

helping make this book happened even though i'm the one that wrote this. so with that, i think i'm going to stop and field questions from anybody who may have one. if you don't feel like walking up here tell me the question and i will repeat because of the bentley they can't hear it on the tv. >> i'm close, i will come to the mic. i want to ask more about the term terrorist. understand the explanation how it's being used from 9/11 to the bush administration to the patriot act, etc.. but do you feel like it gives more weight, more value and more life to that term by you using it to describe rod coronado or john thune pull as opposed to describing them as an activist for a myriad of other terms you could describe them? >> in my book i don't use that. i don't describe them that way. i say this is a book about terrorism because that is the subject matter but i don't call them terrorists.

basically the book is an argument that they are not. but you are absolutely right that it is -- the definition of it and the use of it is widening. by all sorts of different means. because the word allows them to do things. it's potent. it allows you to use extraordinary measures to catch people. it allows you to put them in extraordinary jails and allows this extra action you can bring to this and just because of the word. and one of the things i just wrote about recently in the la times was the secretive prison units that are made for terrorists, the people in their some of them have been connected like for a little while john walker lynn was in there. the aptly called him on a battlefield and that kind of thing, but a lot of them have very fuzzy connections like making one phone call to a guy that was a known operative of something in pakistan, you know, and then they got that person and end up in this unit, this

special unit for terrorists. pulling all those people in there and expanding it out, constantly expanding like who was called a terrorist gives, you know, the federal government power and also gives them budget and all kind of nifty things you can get because you need to fight terrorism. so, yeah, it is disconcerting of it is expanding but it's continuing even under the obama administration is continuing to expand. good question. anybody else? >> i'm just curious, given your long history of reporting on activism and the rainbow book and now this one, do you think people are -- is their anyone here who is checking your license plate and that sort of stuff? do you feel like you are being surveiled?

>> [inaudible] [laughter] if we buy the book are we on the left somewhere? [laughter] someone must be aware of you. >> absolutely. they would be anyways because i call them and ask them questions and say i'm working on a book about rod coronado, can i talk to people and they say no but i keep asking. eventually they give the people to talk to and they are not the ones i want and don't say the things i need them to say. there is a file somewhere one day i will get it. >> i was most struck by the connection with all these universities. why that should be -- it would seem if theoretically the liberal academics -- >> they do their research. so rod would probably agree with that in terms of this is where there was some sympathy for the things he believed. maybe not the things he did his belief system for sure but there's also the profs

oftentimes the research that's done on animals for animals sake, like feeding and nutrition and so forth is mixed in with research on for humans. all the guys were doing experiments on deafness they felt could be applicable to humans or genetic disease is the fault could barely believe could be applicable to humans. i talked to all the guys, the researchers that were hit and they look at themselves as doing good work to the of course, you know, they seem like totally nice reasonable people and that kind of thing and, you know, most of them say i'm not happy about the fact some of the animals died. but, you know, would you rather have that or not have a cure for aids or something? that's usually the way the discussion goes. please. >> [inaudible] >> after doing all this research

on the animal rights movement how do you feel about the tactics rod did use even though you don't let terrorism do you think it is something that is important to be done? by the way in terms of liberals i don't think the animal rights movement -- most liberals don't get the animal rights movement. so liberal doesn't mean you are for the animals at all unfortunately. you have to be really liberal i think is another thing. [laughter] so, yeah. >> in terms of being -- in terms of the actual tactics, the thing i mentioned in the book is like the whaling boats attacked it as almost damned by the fact that it is so incredibly effective it shut down the wheeling for that period of time, however long it took to refloat the boats they didn't get out there to kill any whales.

but long term i am not sure about the effectiveness because -- and rod is thinking about that too, and a lot of the people that, for instance benefactions they did was with some kind notes at the university of utah, and they let a bunch of the coyotes out and rod was really emotional about it and he felt like the coyotes were talking to him and they really needed to get out and everything and they ran around in the yard and stuff outside and fought each other and they were bloody and tore up and had to be patched together. it was really just kind of a mess. obviously that's kind of the second fallschase first let them out and then figure out what happens with them. the effectiveness i don't know it is a good question. i'm not sure i totally believe some of the actions are effective, but press weiss and even the people that were hit

say this if you want to get attention to this issue they were totally successful because press why is, people like me paid attention. presswise i rode through the 90's because paul watson was out there bumping into ships and he's still doing it. and now he's got to be probably the most effective environmentalist on the planet because whalewars is hugely popular and people are still out there doing that stuff. >> with corporate sponsorship. >> with corporate sponsorship, yeah. in terms of -- there's a good example. on the small individual action like trying to stop one particular researcher from doing his thing maybe not in the grand scheme of things is somebody like paul watson effective? maybe because he might shut down whaling. the japanese might say it's not worth it anymore.

the whole world is turned against us because of this tv show and i am hearing rumblings that iceland has a new prime minister thinking seriously about what whaling anymore. who knows in the next few years that might end and paul watson would be a big part of that for sure. that's a good discussion and a good argument but i don't know if i am totally sold on the question on what is effective and what's not. i think it's kind of case by case anyone else? if you can please then we can hear. >> i'm just thinking about what you said about paul watson being a part of a whaling gets shut down and i obviously loved his work but he's been doing that for a long time. it would seem to me that animal planet would have an awful lot to do with it if paul watson --

if whaling gets shut down and i am just wondering in your opinion how much [rollcall] the media play in changing things like the way animals are treated, whaling, biomedical research which isn't to hate because a few in life and that kind of thing. thank you for doing what you do and i'm wondering how you could see things going that way. >> they could. somebody had to take the chance to do a show with paul. they wouldn't do it for a long time. they told one of my friends was a publicist who does a lot of stuff for environmental groups that he wanted to do this as long ago as the early 1980's when mtv came out with the real world paul at that point said i want a reality show, and it took this long for somebody to say yes let's go do that because you couldn't sell it to anybody those things change over time and maybe they are changing now.

there used to be a lot more. one of the reasons they have got a lot of these laws and made them more difficult in terms of, you know, calling things terrorism is because their use to be a lot more investigative journalism where people would go undercover and go into the slaughterhouse or do the whole sinclair lewis thing but go in and get images from things. we are not seeing that much anymore. that went a little bit out of -- the little bit out of favor. >> why? >> why don't know. mabey -- mabey budget, yeah. >> [inaudible] >> i mean, it's still happening. it's not to say -- >> [inaudible] >> when there is -- it's still happening, but i just -- i had the impression there was more of it at a certain point and now there's not as much of it, but maybe something like a whalewars creates a space for other things. you know every other producer in

town is now saying whale wars worked, what else could we do -- >> [inaudible] going into the houses and -- >> right, right, right. it could crack something wide-open where they start doing a lot of this kind of material. but just plain old job cousteau has been doing that stuff our whole lives, you know. seeing paul watson and the greenpeace guys running around in zodiacs in the 70's was basically like the next thing that was happening after the shock cousteau things. the programs and all the planet -- of the stuff that has to do with planet earth and all the stuff that has to do with amol shows -- animal shows us to do with this. people grow up with this and don't want to see anything happening to these animals. that is a very powerful tool. yes? >> can i just ask from here?

>> absolutely, sure. >> if the terrorism act -- [inaudible] do you discuss is he starting to gear more towards how -- >> she is asking younce to whether or not there is a sort of active movement among some environmentalists and the people affected by these to now go after and change them and know, they're has not been. why can't say that in the book i'm openly advocating something like these are the laws that need to be changed but these are the laws that need to be changed. it's a program that somebody needs to pick up and when the things -- when they get really extreme even the main street groups like the humane society way in. there were things they tried to write in to the antar to the criminal enterprise act like the humane society to doesn't want a part of the said that's too far you've got to cut the back like for instance they tried to tashi

in boycotts. well, you know, the humane society jumped in there and said when ben and jerry do something we don't like like even then we are going to boycott them and want the right to do that so they had to take that piece and soften that language. but where is everybody else? everybody should apply all in and say the whole thing i that language. i'm not going to pick out any one particular group because i don't know the details who has weighed in and who hasn't but these walls are ceiling for without many people jumping in there to say no, no, we don't want to not increase the work of the word terrorism so that should be the program now people going in there to try to copy is laws back, trim them back. >> if the center for constitutional rights -- [inaudible] >> dac all you did just jump in about the prison units. that's the story i wrote last

week. so that's finally starting to happen and that's the aclu and center for constitutional rights and a raft of other people getting involved in that so finally that is getting attention because i think it takes those units areld and it takes awhile to figure out how they are legally going to do it, how they are going to go after them and now they're going after so maybe if we are lucky that will happen with these laws as well. yes, please. ..

>> uncle sam wants you. world war i and the making of the modern american citizen. tranone, who is jas montgomery flagg? >> james montgomery flagg is the man behind probably one of the most important images of american politics park the uncle sam wants you post appeared he was a graphic artist working in new york in the early 1900s. after the war had started but before the u.s. was involved in the war, flagg wanted to be america to be more involved and he wanted to come up with a perfect image that would get americans in the military. and he is one who gave us this image of a local sam wants you. that finger-pointing out at you. >> was he under contract to present that image? >> he was -- at the time he was working for a magazine, which

was a popular magazine of the day. and he was under a tight deadline to finish. in ft, he didn't have a lot of ideas. and so as the story as we know it, particularly from his memoirs, he got an idea as came out with a picture of himself looking from the mere. you know, looking in the mirror and adding a few meters to the image. putting on a funny hat and he said. that gave him the magazine cover. it was a year or so later that the u.s. army picked up the image and made into a recruiting poster. >> but at that time it was not a popular image? >> no. at that time it wasn't what are you doing for preparedness. >> so was there a national effort in 1916 to get into world war i? >> there was. some people actually wanted the u.s. to enter, especially people

like theodore roosevelt who really felt this was an international crisis. even a humanitarian crisis of civilization and the u.s. had an obligation to be involved. others just want the u.s. to be more prepared, to have a larger armor, to have more capabilities in case the world event drag america into the war. and then there were those who felt this was a european problem, that the u.s. should stay away from. >> but not a centralized government effort? >> no, there was not a centralized government effort. in fact, woodrow wilson tried to avoid this as president. because he worried that he would end up alienating voters on both sides. >> how did the u.s. get into world war i? >> well, despite woul woodrow wilson's efforts, particularly by giving slight preference to britain by not trading with germany, and then as the germans

in the spring of 1917, they launched sort of a desperate last minute gambit to win the war knowing that they would drag the americans into it. the germans thought that the americans didn't have a big army, they didn't have a strong federal government and they would never get in the war in time to make a differenc and that's one place where they were wrong. >> but prior to woodrow wilson's decisions, what were the grassroots separate effort that got us into world war i? >> among the people who wanted the u.s. to be more prepared, this prepared this movement, people, most of them republicans, many of them disciples of theodore roosevelt who set out sort of volunteer military training camps there a big one was in plattsburgh new york that was called a plattsburgh movement. and often that kind of elite college students of the day which spend their summers training to feed military officer. many of them did become miliry officers. after the war the rotc as we know it today really traces its

roots back to this plattsburg movement. >> so was there a grassroots movement to get into the war? was the war popular before the americans got into it? >> the war was potter with some people, but i think one of the thing most people forget about world war i is that it was very divisive. both entering the war and getting into it. so it has kind of been forgotten in the years since. >> where did your book on uncle sam wants you come from? >> the book actually started from a puzzling group of people. so i have a footnote in another book i found reference to what were called flagger rage. flag was the slang term in world war i to draftdodgers. they were carried out by a group of volunteers, mostly middle-aged men over draft age who would go around to cities and small towns a try to track down the draft dodgers in their community. and i thought this is just

unusual. people volunteering to enforce the draft. perhaps 200,000 people were part of this group. so i started by researching them and then it became a bigger story about america and its federal government in its first big world war. >> what was the effect on the federal government of world war i? >> it was enormously transformative, and i think that historians have not paid enough attention to that because a lot of the organizations have gotten very large through the work, got smaller afterward. the army got bigger and then the fact that our budget got muc bigger, but it never went back to the small size that it was before. and that's an important turning point. and then the mindset of a federal president in everyda life where they are for generations to come. and so when you crises came, whether it was the great depression or world war ii, then the first world war was a previous image that others look at when they looked back at what

should the federal government give. >> and what washat? >> it was an image that tapping into voluntary social issues, civil society, as a term of the century this is when people are active in clubs, internal logic. they are trying to use that voluntary sensibility to mobilize the population, to mobilize the nation at a time when the state itself may not be that big. >> so is that why you include the suffragist in this book? >> i do. and i think that the war is a crucial moment for women's organization, whether they were suffrage organizations or not. first of all, trying to find a place for themselves at a time when men aren't meant to responsibilities are clearly stated. and to women have to find their own place. in fact, again, hundreds of thousands of volunteers in various organizations from the home front. in areas that were marked as women's fears of activities through conversation and things

in the home. >> why is it that there was, i don't know if it was a rise in anarchy, but a rise in domestic terrorism and instances of anarchists during this period? >> well, there had been violence over particularly around questions of labor for actually quite a while before the war. the world war i marked this turning point, and for me it is captured in the word pro- german which is a word that appears almost everywhere in the press during the first world war. but it may not have anything to do with actual germans. pretty much violence or strike, can be labeled as pro- german. after that a lot of the labor radicals who have been around a period of industrialization found themselves really under the gun. the term pro- german was used against a lot of people and was an effective tool? >> it was used against anyone who is challenging the status quo which is against striking

workers. it was used against african-americans. the start to migrate from the rural south to the north and it was effective in silencing them. it was in pretty remarkable ways. >> tranone, the making of the modern american citizen. >> thank you. >> christopher capozzola >> the black belt is a region of america, a region of the south that extends from virginia, the coast of virginia all the way to texas, and it is historical roots or origins really date back to the area. this is a place for african-americans formed a

majority of the population, a string of counties were african-americans formed a majority of population but where plantation agriculture primarily cotton really serve as the economic engine for the region. and so that dates back to the anti-bellum era. but that stretches forward to the middle of the 20th century and beyond were african-americans, the string of counties were african-americans are formed, the majority of black population and agricultural remained dominant. but in each state, a black belt forms distinct regions. and so in alabama, the alabama black belt is a string of about 15 counties stretching from the border of georgia through central alabama to the border of mississippi. >> what's that belt political significance? >> is critical because that is, that's the heart of the african-american population in alabama. but in also of all of these other states, with the exception of the mississippi state where you have the mississippi delta,

but any other southern states that we find african-americans a majority populations. in lawrence county, alabama, african-americans represent 80% of the population so when we think about the migrations of african-americans, the great migrations in after world war i and world war ii, they are coming out of the black belt itself. and so it's not only the center of a african-american population in the south but it really serves as the core for the emerging population in the urban areas of the north and the west. >> tell us about the lowndes county, alabama,. >> lowndes county, alabama, is really the buckle of the alabama black belt. geographically it is located between montgomery and the selma. montgomerie to the east and selma to the west. it was established in the 1830s, and by 1865, it was the center of cotton production. but it also developed --

>> a lot of slavery? >> absolutely. it was the absolute core. but over time, it remains an agrarian economy tied to the exploitation of african-american in the emancipation era, peonage, all the way through the post-world war ii era. but african-americans remain the majority of population. 80% black, but in 1965 there were precisely zero registered black voters. so it's a white majority -- >> zero? >> zero. not a small percentage but zero. and it's 80% african-american. and the reason for that was because of this long legacy of racial violence. african-americans were excluded largely because from the

political process, largely because of their need as exploitable laborers. but it was made possible by the use and long memory of violence in dating back to the emancipation period. and so local people, but then also those who are familiar with lowndes county referred to it as a bloody loud, because of his long history of the really a vicious form of violent white supremacy. so what happened, professor, in 1966 in blount county alabama? >> it's amazing because at the beginning of 1965, this is really a remarkable story. the beginning of 1965, 80% black, zero registered black voters. but by the end of 1966, a local movement of local african-american activists and snick organizers had not -- >> snake. >> eight grassroots organization

to develop the project there in the beginning of 1965 lead by stokely carmichael who we always associate with the black power. by the end of 1966 not only had they succeeded in registering the majority of african-american voters, but they had created an independent countywide political party. party, to challenge the local white democrats for control of the county courthouse. and they didn't just create a political party that was a mere shadow of the normal democratic party, which evolved around ostpolitik spirit but they created a radically democratic party that said all people have the right and hold within them the possibility to control or make the decisions that affect their lives. so they said domestic workers, sharecroppers, the poll with a limited education, african-americans who have been disenfranchised off to become

the sheriff, ought to or have a right to become probate judge and the like. and so it's a remarkable story of transition and possibility going from complete absolute exclusion to challenging white supremacy through this sick ration. >> how did that happen? >> through the long organization of grassroots. begins in march with a handful of people deciding that we are going to try to register to vote. and so they go down to the courthouse, the first day to register and all of them are turned away. and they are asked to leave their names to identify who they were, which was a dangerous thing because now the white community knew who they were and they were exposed to the possibilities of economic and physical retaliation. >> and was the retaliation? >> and there was. as the movement begins to grow, a person by person, household by household, community by community, african-americans,

sharecroppers, are evicted en masse. by the end of december they have to form a tent city, the local movement organization. and that's just one aspect. knight riders. repeatedly targeted african-american leaders, but then also people in tent city. anybody who housed at work associated with traneight activist were targeted for racial violence. people lost her job. many people have to leave the county. and some never came back. but it was this long process despite the violence, despite the possibility that you would lose their job, they continue to organize. and not just around the vote. that was the initial catalyst. but like so much of the african-american freedom struggle that gets ignored, they quickly move beyond the vote to fight for a quality education by improving segregated black schools, schools were still segregated after brown.

to desegregate the primary white schools that were there, to improve and increase the opportunities for black farmers, and so they were organizing black farmers. and then of course moving beyond the vote to actually organize independent political party to gain control of the county courthouse. >> in blount county, 80% african-american in 1966. what kind of participation in the lowndes county freedom organization was there? >> it's slow at first. >> and i fear? a lot of fear. it's funny because when stokely carmichael and sncc move into lowndes county at the beginning of 1966 they consciously make the decision not to talk about creating an independent political party because they knew that they would say how is this going to work. in other words, they knew it wasn't necessary for them but they would say what is his alternative that you are talking about and is it possible?

but after developing a good nine months of experience people say, you know what, the democratic party, the local democrats aren't going to let us in and they are doing all these things. jonathan daniels, eight s. in cc is a murder. so that leads people slowly by dozens at first and by may of 1966 when they hold their convention about 900 people participate in the county of about 5000 eligible black voters. about 900 love and participate in this primary that gets them on the ballot. and by the time the november election, you have roughly about 2000 to 2200 african-americans cast their ballots in the vote. but so many others were turned away. from participating, and those living on sharecropping farms, you know, were still afraid. many teachers were afraid for fear of losing their jobs.

>> and, professor, how did they go from zero registered voters to the number of registered voters that they had? how did they get around obstacles? >> that's the slow and hard work of canvassing that stokely carmichael called a. the principal obstacle at the time was fear. i mean, it was a legitimate fear of white violence. but by knocking on those doors, tapping into social networks, tapping in to community networks, drawing people in person by person, family by family and saying look, we are all in this together. and if you want to change your lived editions, one of the things that sncc organizers talked about, they said this isn't politics for the sake of politics. this is actually, if you want to change your life circumstances, if you want paved roads then you need to join the movement. if you want to have a say in the decisions that affect your life,

where your children go to school, then you need to join the movement. and it's slow going. they knock on doors and people look at them and say, look, they are very courteous but we don't want to get in that mess. we know it's a dangerous. but it begins to build momentum, not only around the vote but then also around these broader ideas and things which i call freedom rides. it's their combination of civil rights to go with and also human rights, education, quality housing. and is talking to people about that that really gets them involved and offering them a program for securing it that gets people to sign up to join and make a public decision to support the movement. >> who is john hewitt? >> he is a central figure in the lowndes county freedom struggle. he is a local person who, grows up in the lowndes county, in the

1940s after you graduate from high school. he moved to birmingham and works in the steel mills, and then he returned to lowndes county in the late '50s. and while he was in birmingham he worked with the movement there, working with fred shuttlesworth and alabama christian movement for christian rights. and then when he returns to lowndes county in 1960, he is talking to people and trying to get them interested in a voter registration campaign. folks say we don't -- it's too dangerous, too risky. but in 1955 he is able to get a couple of people to go down with him and he serves eventually as the chairperson of the local movement organization, the lowndes county christian movement for human rights. and as the chairperson of the lowndes county freedom organization, the independent political party with this valid symbol of the black panther. he doesn't run for office in 1966, but in 1970 he is actually a lack of as a first african-american sheriff in

lowndes county. and you know, the book talks about what is the trajectory of black politics from that moment forward. but the movement doesn't happen without him. or at least it doesn't happen in the way that it does without john hulett. >> in 1966, did the lowndes county freedom organization have an electoral success? >> no. >> why not? >> for a couple of reasons. in the november elections, they run in seven african-american candidates for local office, and all are defeated by a couple hundred votes. for a myriad of reasons. one was intimidation on election day. by white polling officials. ballot fraud, and voter chicanery are sending people to the wrong polling site. bringing in, trucking in from plantations african-american

workers and giving them ballots and say listen, this is a valid, these are the people you're voting for. obviously all white democrats. and that's it. and so they had no choice. and then some faulty organizers that organizers in the movement says look, we weren't as repaired as we could have been. we had a transportation system but it wasn't as effective as it could have been. we are still young at this and there are still some people we have to bring in. but they tried and they came close, and so individually they weren't successful. but because they receive 40% of the total vote, which is remarkable number of percentage for a start up third party, and 80% of the african-american vote, they were able to get on the ballot. they were able to be recognized

by the state, and so the black panther, which laid on the black panther party in self-defense in oakland, california, adopts the black panther symbol becomes a permanent presence for the immediate future in the state of alabama for election. >> was the republican party a viable option at all? >> not an option. it was a single party state, and so it was democrats or nothing. and in fact, they entertain, local folk entertained the idea of joining the democratic party and voting democratic. as good as they started registering en masse when the voter registers an act is signed in 1965 in the federal registrar's comment for the first time because of the pressure they had a putting on the federal government and local people are able to register en masse, they are able, the democratic party says we are going to raise the filing fees from $5.50 to $50.5000.

so the average in african-american in lowndes county at the time was making $900, which was well below the poverty level. >> a year? >> a year. so the democratic party purposely at the county level, and this is the party of george wallace, the state party civil at the time was white supremacy for the rights. that was the slogan. and so they were personally trying to exclude them. and that was part of the political education process that local people were going through and weighing their options. so the republican party was really not existing at the local level. it was democrats or nothing, and they said there is no room for us in the democratic party. >> tell us about lowndes county, alabama, today. >> you know, lowndes county today has come a long way politically. african-americans by 1980 had gained control of the county courthouse, were sitting in a majority of the seats in public

office, local public office. but although the politics changed in terms of black representation, very little else changed. so african-americans gained political power but they didn't gain economic power. and as a result of that, poverty still is extremely high. is one of the poorest counties not only in alabama but in the state as a whole. so political power didn't translate into economic power. and there was also the question -- i mean, one of the things that happens in this moment is they create is really radically democratic new kind of politics, what i call freedom politics, mixing the democratic organizer philosophy with these human rights, civil right's goals. and that was the core of the freedom of the independent party. but after a well, once in office, even though that was

really the political inspiration for gaining political power, and those of black elected officials, including hulett, begin to move away from those freedom paula tics, the democratic politics that were at the core of the movement into more traditional american politics. so not only is the not economic change that people hope for but even in the political realm, stokely carmichael who really going to phrase sedlak visibility is not necessarily black power because it doesn't translate into african-american empowerment of the people and sadly, you didn't have that as well in lowndes county to be. >> along to john hulett serve as chair of? >> twenty-four years. he really comes the center of black politics, individually does develop an opposition on the african-american side of people who are looking at him as a political boss. and contesting, saying what happened to the freedom politics

that you were so instrumental in? and so the decisions that he made, and then in 1994, he leaves the sheriffs office and becomes probate judge, stays in office until 2000 then hands off to his son, john hulett junior, who remained probate judge today. and hulett actually just passed away recently, just three years ago in 1996. but his legacy remains politically, not only the legacy but through his son as probate judge. >> bloody rounds, what is your day job? >> assistant professor of history at the ohio state university. >> african-american history, civil rights movement, black power and also u.s. history. >> and this is her first book. >> this is my first. >> published by new york's university press. >> absolutely.