international book festival but a strong growth and flavor. >> johnny temple, founder and publisher of akashic books and founder of the brooklyn book festival can i thank you very much. ..

[applause] >> can anyone hear me okay? all right. no? i will have to speak a little louder than. is that all right? all right. you are welcome. welcome to washington, d.c..

[applause] >> you look beautiful. >> guest: thank you. >> host: so we were chatting a little bit in the back, and i asked if it was all right with you if we could just girl chat. i mean, we have seen a lot of your -- [laughter] >> host: when i sacral check, i mean getting to littl know you a little bit more. we want a little more insight about you, the person. is that okay with you? [inaudible] >> host: okay. i will not, i promise. i know people are laughing at me now. let's start from the beginning. from the beginning. you were a baby, lying on a bed.

lying on the bed and your mother some. and someone came in and said to her mother what? >> host: someone came in and saw the baby on the bed. saw the baby on the bed. >> host: i think you have to pull closer a little bit. >> host: is that better? we learn how to fix it in liberia. [laughter] >> host: someone came, an old man. came and saw the baby on the bed and said, for some reason, don't know why he was so moved. but he just said, oh martha, my mother's name -- this child will be great. [applause]

>> host: you talk a lot in the book about how your mom would sometimes laugh, sometimes cry at this particular prophecy. because she saw you go through so much. at what point -- i know you said, you just said you are still waiting for this greatness to happen. but at what point in this journey did you think there may be something, there may be some greater purpose for me in this life that i have to fulfill? >> guest: maybe when i was in prison. [laughter] >> guest: can't think of a better time. >> host: okay. >> guest: that day, you know. i thought it can't be this. there's got to be a better life. first it's got a star with me getting out of prison. >> host: so in reading this book, i have to to you, there were so many times you spoke when you were in jail.

there were so many times that i read she was in jail, all right. and you came out of jail. first, you came out of jail, and you came out of jail and you looked so teeny tiny. and then i would think that the first thing you would do is maybe just maybe go home and lay low for a minute. i saw the pictures of you with your hand in the air and in the jeep and going through the streets. and almost seemed like you had no fear. >> guest: well, you know, -- there was at that point nothing to fear. i came out of jail. their work crowd. the crowd were jubilate in, very pleased that we were out. and so the natural thing to do was to go and, you know, go and have a rally. and that is that we did.

we headed to one of the political headquarters and had a chance to show expressions to the crowd, expression of gratitude, expression of goodwill, expression of solidarity and all that. and that came naturally. >> host: okay. so in the beginning of the book you dedicate the first part of the book to the people of your country, but the other part of the book you dedicate to your mom, martha. tell me about martha johnson. >> guest: i think that was the real force that shaped my life, the life of my siblings. my mother was one who taught us the basic things about endurance and commitment and honesty and

hard work. she demonstrated her courage when our father, her husband, had a stroke very early. and she had to make ends meet to give us an education. she was a pastor so she was deeply rooted in faith. and so we grew up in a family home based on prayers and faith, and hard work. and i think everything that represents the character in me, they really have come from her and the upbringing that she did in our family. [applause] >> host: you also go through, i know you make a great point in the beginning of the book as well to really discuss your roots and to almost set the record straight about your roots. why was that so important to you?

>> guest: you know, the book is not only about my life story, but i hope in small ways have captured our nation and its history, its innings. its triumphs and its tragedies are and for me and the family, our roots were, like i said, we have bridged two worlds and that my father was 100% indigenous. he was the son of a chief. his mother, my maternal grandmother was illiterate until she died. never even came to a capital city. my mother was 50% indigenous, but happen to have been wed to a german trainer who left the country when she was at an early age because of liberia declared war on germany and they had to leave. and so in a way we represented

both worlds. i mean, we never forgot their background, we never forgot our roots. we never -- but at the same time they were given to simpler families and so they were able to get an education. and in a way to my sake over time, through education and profession they also became part of the unique class. and so, you know, that is very complex background anyway represents the complexities and contradictions of our own nation, its beginnings and its evolution over time and experiences that we had. i hope that i tried to capture a little bit of that in the book. >> host: you most certainly did. you most certainly did, and what i appreciated most about that, it taught me a lot -- i didn't know. i thought i knew a lot, but the beauty of the book is its also a great history lesson, and if that's what you are setting out

to accomplish, you certainly did do that. you certainly did do that. >> guest: thank you. [applause] >> host: so let's move on to your going into womanhood. you were 17 and married at 17. and really did not, it didn't look like at 17 hugo and to pick -- to anyone looking at you at 17 years old, they probably would not have expected you to be here where you are. at 17, what do you think your outlook on life was around that time? >> guest: well, like most of my classmates, i was looking forward to finding the means to go to college. that was all interrupted by a dashing young man to whom i got married. [laughter] >> guest: but, you know, i was going to be an english teacher, follow my mother's footsteps.

but you know, things changed. >> host: things change and they got pretty rough for you as you discuss in the book. it was an abusive marriage, that i can imagine took its toll on you personally, as you discuss in the book. >> guest: yes, but i always try to say yes, was an abusive marriage. and you know, domestic violence is quite common in our country in africa, and other places. and many people suffer in silence, as i did, you know. on the other hand, in fairness to my children's father, i always said that all that also made me strong. that helped to build the character in the. [applause] >> host: and another thing that most certainly would make you strong his two children in one year. for all the mothers out there, yes, i said two children in one

year. i'm sure that must've been pretty overwhelming. >> guest: since it's in the book, i can't deny it. [laughter] >> guest: yeah, i think that was rather exception, but you know, my oldest son was born in january 11, on my mother's birthday incidentally, and the second son was born december 31. [laughter] >> guest: almost. couldn't wait just a few hours. oh. >> host: all, boy.

i can't imagine them being a young person and having that kind of responsibility. you also talk about you saw your friend going off to college and you having to bring forth a family, and that was tough for you to see. >> guest: yes, it was. because some of my very good friend had gone off and i was having children, and you know, a housewife, a farmer because we lived some time away from the capital city working at the institute on the farm nearby there. he would come and visit and i would be so, you know, so embarrassed and sometimes, so sorry for myself. there i was. but then again, that perhaps also gave me a great motivation because i knew at some point i had to make up, i had to catch up. i couldn't stay in this condition. that also, you know, strengthened me and inspired me

to say, well, you know, when it comes i will use that opportunity and that accelerated my whole effort to become a professional, to become educated, to be able to rise without, you know, despite the fact that i love my children and wanted to be with them. but still, that drives to be somebody, that drive to be more than just a housewife or mother at 20, 22, 23 years old. it was a great motivation for me. and i am glad, you know, i also had a husband who also was going to school, and despite all the problems we had, there was encouragement also, you know, to go into that. so we both went back to school. and i went to college and he went to graduate school. >> host: a lot of the theme of the book that i took away, if i could put one word to this book,

i would say you made a lot of sacrifice. and you talk about that when you were just talking about you having to leave your children behind and go, go to america. what was that like for you? >> guest: that was difficult. i mean, my youngest son was one year old when i left. fortunately, we had the extended family system. and so we were able to leave two boys with one mother and two boys with the other. and thereby, you know, get the opportunity to go back to school. but it is still heart-wrenching because you are leading your young children behind, you know, from such a beautiful time. you don't know what could happen during her absence, what could happen to you, what could happen to them. and we didn't have communication like we do today, so it was like go to a madison, wisconsin, and pick up the telephone and call monrovia in those days.

and so that made it very tough. but you know, thank god we were able to succeed in the end they came out very well. >> host: yes, they did. and you talk about pride. that is one thing as liberians you hope they hold onto, or using africans, but i think -- we would spark that out because we saw a lot in the caribbean to. my mother made the same sacrifices with extended family, extended families where a lot of parents would go away to try to do better for their children, but you don't want liberia to lose that extent of the extended family. >> guest: no, that's part of cultural values that we must others that everyone is part of the same village, the same community. you know, everyone is your mother and everyone has responsibility to take care of someone else's children.

i think that is a good thing. i hope we don't lose it and we should try to maintain a. [applause] >> host: so eventually, your marriage with your husband end ended, and you talk about traditionally that the children would go off with the father. but i know that must've been hard wrenching for you as well. but there was one child who wasn't having it. one child, his name rob, tell me about rob. >> host: well, you know,. >> host: and rob is over here. >> guest: i don't want to embarrass rob. is sitting right there. first of all, the men, the husbands claim the rights to children in our society anyway,

unless there is an understanding, an agreement that it would be otherwise and so i had proclaimed the right to the children once the marriage rate in two troubled. and so they all went off, and with the help of his mother they were going to take care of them. but finally one day he came back and brought rob back and dumped them on the step and said this child -- [laughter] >> guest: this child won't stay with me so you can have him. >> host: that is a great story. hey, rob. okay, okay. so let's move on to your decisions now to go into government. and that started at what age? gets back i have to now count.

this was when we went off to madison, wisconsin, and i did my undergraduate work and came back in 1964. so you cannot now. way, way back. [laughter] >> guest: i don't know. [laughter] >> host: do you really want me to count? >> guest: i should have it on my fingertips, right? you might as the sum of the question about age. >> host: i know, i saw you in the movie, the documentary and you are on that treadmill. how many saw the documentary, iron lady of liberia. i saw you on that treadmill and i thought i had to get myself together because you were just on that treadmill working out. do you still keep the regiment

up? >> guest: i try. i am not as disciplined as i should be. i used to like to swim every morning, and i can do a lot of that anymore. but yeah, i still like the treadmill. my sister ginny who is here, much more religious when it comes to that. i mean, our and a half of exercise. most times i have to try to read a paper, get a report read in time for meeting. >> host: sure, sure. so what was fascinating before about politics, in reading the book, i said this to you before, reading the book i would see that you were in government. something would happen. and i don't want to say too much because i want to give everyone the chance to read the book, but when you do read the book you will understand what i am talking about. but there were certain instances

where you had a difficult time in liberia. and you would just get away and leave. sometimes just barely getting away. and the next line and a couple of pages would say, and then i decided to go back to liberia. i would have to put the book down and say, why? tell me, what was it that was in you that i am sure your family was fearful for you, even if you sort of pushed your fears aside and it's almost like i would think in the book, there is just something in you, you knew you had to do. please, tell us, what was that in you that kept bringing you back? >> guest: well, there was always another step to climb. and every time we ran into difficulty and had to run away,

you know, it's like no, you can't run away. you've got to go back. you have to face the. and i have always believed, like so we others, who have gone to the same thing and made the same kind of sacrifices. but there's always our belief that our country has potential, that it deserved more, and that if we went back and we were able, enough of us, to take a stand and to do the right thing and didn't do movement that we could resist potential. we haven't reached it yet, but i would hope it would be enough good people there now that maybe we will make it what it ought to be. [applause] >> host: let's go to these last elections that brought you to where you are. today. what made you decide to run?

guest mac i had to. -- just mac i had to. [applause] >> host: and why did you have to. >> guest: we already made strides, you know. so it was a natural thing to do. we had to go back, competition is part of life, it's in my soul. and so you know, i tried one, didn't make. try again. and this time more determination and you know, each stumbling block became a stepping stone. [applause] >> host: all right. did you ever feel intimidated when you were running against, did you ever once think maybe not? guest mac no, no, no. never intimidated. i knew the competition with years and i knew that one would have to really find the right strategy to be able to win.

but no, i have never been intimidated. i always have confidence in myself. [applause] >> host: all right now. you said during the runoff that you released your secret weapon, that no one saw coming. what was that secret weapon? guest women. [applause] >> host: and what did that secret -- what did those women do? >> everything. from all walks of life, urban women, the illiterate women are fictional women for women, rich women they all decided our time has,. [applause]

>> host: amen. i also noticed a lot of similarities in watching the documentary with, you know, a little event we have happened this year on november 4. where the odds seemed against a particular person, and when i say a lot of similarity, i noticed that you talked a lot about change in your speech, in your speeches that you would give. and then the similarities, it was a day of jubilation for you, the day you one, and then the real work begun. do you see, do you look at president obama now? what do you think when you look at president obama now? >> guestbeing where you are andg through the past? what do you think when you watch his presidency right now?

>> guest: i think he is on the right course. i also think the difficulties will come as it comes to all of us. no matter how good strategy is that winning, that one will face it, but i do believe that his strong commitment and his strong belief in change, that he also will surmount. it's not easy. it never is. reality will hit home. when you try one policy, try one procedure and you run into obstacles, but i do believe that he brings to it, you know, that courage, that commitment, that dedication, that belief in change. so that's enough to see him through. and i hope -- i am quite sure he will make it. [applause] >> host: so what is next for

you? what is next on your agenda? and i mean, i don't necessarily mean politics. wants politics is over, or will politics ever be over? >> guest: no, no, no. there comes a time you know, it ends for all of us. and i just want to sit in a hammock under a coconut tree. [applause] >> guest: you know, and sip coconut water and read a book without any telephone calls or any crisis. [laughter] >> host: are you still working, 14 plus hour days? >> guest: yeah. that i have to do. but so many others along with me. >> host: you do have a strong

team around you. i was very impressed when i saw the documentary, extremely impressed. and i have a few stars i am seeing in the documentary are here. and that staff around you, they seem like, i saw her earlier this week, and she convey to all of us, she wanted to be here. she is in chicago, but she can pay to everyone that we must support, we must uphold you and you must succeed. she wanted me to give you that message. [applause] >> guest: she is a strong supporter. she is a good friend. she is a great lady. very courageous. has done a lot of things, you know, in kenya around the world, or green belt movement, we are still trying to plant those million trees that she has beside it must be planted around the world. so she is just wonderful. >> host: all right, all right. so my last question to you is

this, and this is what i meant by the girl chat, because i am sure there are a lot of young women here who really look up to you and admire where you have come from, where you have been, your determination, where you have gone, where you are still going. and we want to know from you, it's tradition. we go to the elders. we want to know from you, is it possible to have it all and in the sands have family, had a career and be able to balance all of that and achieve your goals? >> guest: one must strive for that, because of the family life is as important as professional life. and for those who are able to hold the two together, and many are, the most idealistic situation, there are times when conflicts do occur and one has to make a choice between one or

the other. that choice has to be made depending upon the circumstances and experiences and conditions of one's life, and you know, you will never know what that choice will be until you face it. but i think it is possible to have a good, solid family life, and also to pursue one's professional goals and to succeed at both. and many have been able to do that, and we must just applaud, you know, applaud that and hope that everybody can move in that direction. >> host: wonderful. wonderful. we thank you. we thank you for writing this book. we thank you for being who you are. we thank you for being a role model. and we thank you that you never gave up >> guest: and i want to thank so many people in this room. i see so many of them that have been on this long road with us. have made some great, great contributions to our safety, to our survival, to our success.

i see some right here. i see some across the room. some that are newer ones that were there who today, you know, all of them in here and all the liberians who have just come together as one people. those who helped with the elections. i see some of them sitting there, and all of those, i just want to say that my success is your success because i would not have had it were it not for you. [applause] >> guest: and so i just want to say a big thank you. it's not over yet, you know. i keep saying that the greatness comes not from me. the greatness truly comes if we can change our country and we can make our country great. that is where the greatness really lies and that will be the measure of my success and the measure of my greatness is if we can put liberia on an irreversible course toward reconciliation through development. thank you all for being a part of that.

[applause] >> host: ladies and children, her excellency, madam ellen johnson-sirleaf. we just have a small presentation for your. we would like to thank you for joining us. this is divine, he is the president of the oracle grew, and he has worked diligently with me to posting here today, and we are just so happy to have you here. everyone here welcomes you. we thank you and we look forward to many more years of your greatness. [applause] >> ellen johnson-sirleaf became the president of liberia in 2006. previously served as that country's minister of finance and as an executive for citibank. she was awarded the presidential medal of freedom by george w.

bush. the oracle group organized this discussion for their weekly interview program in the café with mocha. for more information, visit the oracle grew.net and click on the show tap. >> douglas brickley looks at the first green president >> next, a portion of the tv is a monthly three-hour live program in depth. on the first sunday of each month, we invite one offer to discuss their entire body of work and take your calls. in depth also includes a visit with the author to see where and how they write their books. that's what you are about to see.

>> this is my bedroom. this is the corner of my bedroom. i usually don't write here. i'd have a steady but my daughter is living in it for the summer. it's her bedroom actually. while she is home from college. so i'm parked here on this card table, and i do have this fantastic view, which is really wonderful, because when i am tired of my mind, which is most of the time, i can just look out at the green tops of the trees and the hudson and all the barges going up and down. you have the george washington bridge up there. so it's a tremendous relief from the suffering of writing. i wake up very early. i didn't used to, but once you have a child you have to get up

early. and after a while it becomes habitual. so now i'm a permanent early riser. i get a. i have coffee. i sit at my desk, and then i'm ashamed to say i do look at my e-mail. i do do that. and then i tried to put that aside and actually do some, you know, thinking about whatever it is i have to do that day. i write my column every other week, so when i'm on. when it's a column week, i'm working on that, which involves a certain amount of research, talking to my editor, writing. there is always that. rewriting. making phone calls, all of that kind of thing. when i am not working on my column, i am sometimes working on a freelance piece or i'm

writing -- i'm working on columns. i have a book of poems coming out. in just about a year. >> how do you know what you'll be working on, just deadlines? >> yet, i have internal deadlines. or there've been work on something and you want to get back to. but i am like a novelist who has a whole long project that takes years, and i don't know how they stand. but at least they know, you know, i have to get up and work on chapter five. and for me it's more flexible. i'm writing a series of poems that are based on storage and old and new testament. and so naturally you have to consult the source. it's amazing to me that there is so much in those stories. they are like the greek myths.

you can turn them all different kind of ways, which i suppose is one reason why people have been commenting on the bible for thousands of years. there's a lot of mysterious stuff in there. the poll but i'm working on now is a poll of about drawn from the book of job. and here i think it's got pretty much at his worst. i think that's true, but he is not a very sympathetic character, a lot of the time. and certainly in these early books of the old testament, he is definitely not. so job is the object of a bet between god and satan. where job is very virtuous man, and satan says i can make him -- i can make them pursue. i can make them fall away from you. and god says no, no, you can't.

but do what you want. and satan immediately before you know it, job's children have all been killed, his flocks have died. he is afflicted with terrible skin diseases and he's sitting on a dark heap. and his friends, this is where i pull him takes off, his friends keep telling him this can't be your fault and he says no, no, i really am a good person. i didn't do any of this to deserve this. and in my palm bay utter these new age platitudes. they say what goes around comes around. you know, and you must have, these things happen for a reason. don't you hate it when people say that? things happen for a reason. yes, they did. and the reason was god allow this to happen, not the reason that joke deserved it to happen. so in my pal told job is reallye hero in the way. but in the bible what happens is after job complained for a long

time, very beautifully, god comes out and says, you know, basically where were you when i made the world? where did you get off criticizing me? i'm the person who understands everything. i am the person who made everything. i made leviathan. i made this, i made that. and after he is gone on for a very long time, job says i repent. okay, you're right. and then god restores everything. and he gives him some more sons, daughters, some more flocks. and job guys old. and that is supposed to be the happy ending. but how can it be the happy ending? you lose your children, and then god says have more children. that doesn't replace the first children. that doesn't replace what you have been through. and i found myself thinking what kind of mentality would think that he could make up for it?

you know, that god was making up for it when he gives that second round of children. and i just thought god doesn't really understand what it is to be human. he just is thinking in very in terms of quantity. >> we build you a little bit as you were working on that. and you were just looking at it a lot. could you use the poll about job as an example to explain how you write a poem? >> i usually start with language. i usually don't say oh, book of job, that will be interesting to write a book about. i have something i want to say and i have words that are kind of connected to that. and then the rest of it is the pure torture of trying to

conquer ties, might extremely cloudy sense of what the poll should be and where it is going. and i find poems very hard to write. very hard to write. every now and then i will write one that comes pretty quickly. but a lot of times, they don't. and after they are finished i will say why did that take so long, what was the big problem there? it looks so simple all laid out like this. but there is something about it where you have to sort of -- i feel like i'm pushing my way through some kind of missed. and so even like whirlwind or sandstorm? whirlwind or sandstorm? you know, i can go back on that, back and forth between whirlwind and sandstorm for a very long time. >> is it entirely on the computer or do you also have handwritten versions? do you printed out to rework? how does that work? >> my favorite way of writing was on a typewriter.

remember the typewriter, the electric typewriter was a wonderful because you had all -- it was distant enough so that you could look at it and trick yourself into thinking it was just a poem in a book and get that little bit of a objective glimpse it. you can't when you write in longhand. there is always you, it is all connected to you. but at the same time your drafts are all very distinct, and that is good too because then you can sort of go back. you say, oh, yeah, wait a minute there i went off the road here. i had something i like the way back then. you can go back and find it. the computer, the draft become much less distinct thing. i mean, you don't -- you know, start a new document every time you want to change a line or a word. so i miss the typewriter. but at the same time, you know,

i write on the computer so i do a little bit of everything. i print out and write on that. i actually composed on the computer, and i write out in longhand and i'm traveling on a train. >> how do you know when you are done? >> well, i believe it was paul who said a pullum is never finished, it is only abandoned. i wrote a poem about that called abandoned homes. sometimes you can go back a long time later and think right, i never liked that word. what about his work? but basically i think we do get a sense that you've done what you can. and it's -- you just have to sort of declare it finished. sometime you get this wonderful sense, i will say. sometimes you get a wonderful sense of its finished. it's like a little package. it's like, all the words are where you want them to be. sort of like you've finished the

crossword puzzle. but a lot of times there is a kind of open ended ms. to it where you think, i've gone as far as i can go with whatever ability i have. but that doesn't mean its finished in some kind of cosmic sense. interesting that i do, he was a schnell, on the west end of things, he loved margaret thatcher. didn't like anything about modern life except about jazzer the '20s and 30s, and liquor and that sort of thing. but i do think is a wonderful poet. and i think he captures -- he

captures the sense i too often have that life is not going in a good direction. you know, that -- that there are certain aspects of the modern life that are difficult, sorry folk, ugly, getting more ugly. i mean, just physically getting more ugly. and that the individual is very challenged in certain ways to respond to this. and i think he also -- i like him for his emotional honesty. i think just for being the trusty old type he was, i like that.

i like that. that he just really expressed himself and didn't try to placate or appease or please a larger audience that he had. i admire that. well, here is another poet i love, robert dole. look at his book. really big. very intimidating. and robert noel is another, robert dole wrote poems that have meant as much to me as any poet alive. and again, what i like about him, i like is very full confrontation with himself, with modern life, with language, beautiful, beautiful. he writes these lines that i don't know if people write like this anymore that they are a

combination of very colloquial, and yet you feel -- and elevated. it's both. and he writes lines that are not -- that are intense, that are highly dense and worked, and just sear themselves into your mind. and i like that in poetry. i don't like poems that are too slight. i like them to have a certain weight. so let's see. well, i want to tell you, because we don't want to just talk about male poets. another poet i really love, she is a polish poet. she is older now. she won the nobel prize for literature. i think she would be more famous in america if her name was easier to pronounce than the way it is don't. it has this funny polish -- it's

not funny and polish but it looks odd and english. it has this dell with a slash that is not like an al. she is to me just the most vicious of contemporary poets. she is witty, she is ironic, and yet there is such a course of feeling underneath it all. i don't think she has ever written a bad poem. i think all of her poems are great. and there aren't many poets of whom you can say that. all of her poems are really wonderful, all the ones are just really great. and with her, you feel such -- it's important that she is polish. you understand or. you feel such an engagement with the 20th century with world war

ii, communism, with, you know, living in the aftermath of so much war and turmoil and trying to have kind of noble, feeling full, dignified, on an individual response to an era of tremendous pressure toward conformity and towards the violence of the things that don't fit in that are not acceptable. so i love her. >> how did you find her? >> well, she did win the nobel prize. she is not after. but i did find out about her because it was from one poem. it was from one poem which unfortunately i don't have here

that i read in american poetry review a long time ago. it was just one of her most famous poems, which is about all the ways that people escaped from the holocaust and it's because of the lead, it was because you are on a mountaintop, it was raining, because it wasn't raining. you know, all these things. these things were just complete happenstance, and that enabled you to survive, just that little accident. and then she ends by saying this and how your heart beats in the. and it's such a moment of kind of human connection of sort of the strangeness, the unusualness, the accidental nature that any of us are here. it made such a deep impression on me, although i am not quoting it at all accurately, and that set me off on my crazed.

so one poem into the. one poem can just take in your mind and stay there. there are too many other kinds of writing that can do that. here is another poet i love, greek poet from a while ago. in this particular edition has agreed on one side and the english on another. and he did not, unlike robert lowell, did not write a huge number of poems. but again they were all wonderful. and what's great about him is he was another person who could take this old, old material into something like greek myths, greek history, and something you just thank gosh, haven't we been there before, you know. and he was able to make something very new out of it by infusing it with his particular style of kind of depressed,

homosexual romanticism. maybe that is not fair, but at least -- i remember, you know, one wonderful sexual expected 1910. where is it now? this kind of thing. a wonderful experience and 3000 bc. and i think he is just really great. am i also like about him, i like poets who can do something new with something old. i think that's really a precious thing to do. we don't want to lose our past. we don't want to, you know, forget the old stories and the old history. and yet we don't want to keep telling the same stories in the same way either. so that's the challenge, and i think he really hits it. >> stating of doing something new is an ago. you have a bible here by your bed. >> i do. i do. the bible lives by my bed. so let's hope that is doing some

good. i am writing a series, thinking of trying to do something new out of something all. i am writing a series of poems that are drawn from the bible. i began with the beginning, with the story of adam and eve, and i did my take on adam and eve, which is that -- well, it's the beginning of history. when you leave the garden you enter time, you'd enter history. things can happen. and so there's going to be a story, and in my poem which was published in the new yorker for a couple of years ago, everybody is happy. god is happy to. now history is going to begin. you know what's going to be terrible, men, women, the animals altogether names. they are going back to nature, you know. disorder being alien from us. but it's still going to be exciting. and that i think is also, you

know, way behind my poems and also very far up above my poems. is paradise lost. you know, where it kind of ends in the same way, that it's not all negative. even though in those poems they are damned forever and all the rest. there is still something exciting about it. let's talk about this one. this is a novel i really like. i don't know if i am allowed to mention a true novel, but this is a wonderful book called the 10 year nap, and it's one of these novels that i love these that are sort of the story of four friends, and the forefront in this case are mothers who have left their jobs to stay home with her kids. only now the kids are kind of getting to the age where they don't -- the mothers are thinking they should get back into the world, and it's about

the conflicts that a lot of women have over sort of a whole work-family thing and i think she does it very beautifully and with such a sense of all around compassion and sympathy that you don't often find. you know, i find when women are the subject, people get very mean. they get very indicative, they are extremely judgmental. and i think anyone who is doing something different than you do have to be, you know, some variety of bad person. and what i like about this book is that meg was able to enter very generously into the spirit of the lives of women who are quite different from herself, quite different from me. and expand our sense of how some people live that i think is one of the, you know, important and very classical things that the novel can do, is enlarge our

sense and she really does that. i want to tell you about one more book. >> before you do, can i ask you to introduce me? >> this, i have three cats but you are in connecticut. this one is duly. she loves you already. she is the shyest of my three cats, and so when the three of them are here you don't see too much of her. so this is a happy moment in her life that the other cats are gone. i want to share this. this is a biography by philip david, and he was a teacher of mine. i was in a seminar, a writing seminar he gave my freshman year at harvard. and i had the great, good fortune to be in it. and he made such an impression on me. and i think he is a wonderful writer, now you might. and i think it is amazing to me,

and it shows you something about the nature of reputation that bernard malamud went on top of every most important living writers of fiction. and now he has not read so much, and i think this is such a shame because he is really a terrific writer. his short stories are really great. the assistant. even a new life, which was a second novel, an academic novel that you know, hasn't gotten a lot of attention. they all are really, really wonderful. and i am just so happy that this biography has come out that i hope will bring people back to mr. malamud's work. he gave me a sense of the seriousness of the writer's life, that elizabeth, another

teacher of mine, also gave me. every day, they got up and they wrestled with very, very difficult work of writing something that would last, that would last longer than they would. and i think that certainly is the case for elizabeth, her poems i think are quite a mortal. and it should be the case with bernard malamud, and i hope will be. i hope things will turn around for his posthumous reputation, because it is sad to think of such great books being forgotten. even though most books are forgotten. >> log onto booktv.org for more information about upcoming guests.

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