of "thurgood marshall: american revolutionary." and the provocative commentary on "enough: the phony leaders, dead-end movements, and culture of failure that are undermining black america--and what we can do about it". >> host: let me begin with a book that came out 11 years ago on thurgood marshall called american revolutionary.

and you write in the book he could charm a racist cop with stories and jokes. that he was capable of intimidating rivals but he had nagging doubts about his role on the supreme court. >> guest: it's very interesting and the difficulty of the psychology of being black in america. he was the insecurity, he was the first african-american to be on the court, understood right away that as he went through confirmation hearings -- you know, we've just gone through confirmation hearings with sonia sotomayor where you think back to clarence thomas' hearings oh, my gosh, minorities, women, very difficult. thurgood marshall's lasted almost three months. and his intellect was questioned top to bottom, you know, was he smart enough to really be among the nation's legal elite? and sit there in judgment as a member of the court. and so as he gets on the court he thought i must get the very best in terms of law clerks and

assistants and really wanted to bulk up that idea that he could, in fact, handle this work and respond to the racist assumptions of interior intellect. >> host: you tell in great detail tell the story about how he was selected and also his conversations with lyndon johnson and some doubt as to whether or not he thought lyndon johnson was going to pick up the phone and call him. tell the story. >> guest: i use that as the very start of the book. his experience in that moment tells you so much about the insecurity issue that you just touched on in another moment of his life. as he get on to the court but right from the start, he is the solicitor general in the johnson's administration and he's worried he's not going to get this open for the supreme court, the nomination. and he hears president johnson is considering other black men,

worried that he is too controversial because of his history as the director of the former -- formerly the director of the naacp legal defense and education fund. worried that he does not have a perfect record as solicitor general and president johnson wanted him to have a perfect record so he could respond to james eastland and other senators who is going to question the first black person to be nominated aggressively to see if they had communist connections because of the naacp and all that. he even questioned his drinking. so in that moment, thurgood marshall runs into president johnson at a party. he knows that johnson is going to be there. he girds himself. puts on a good suit and goes to the party. and johnson sees him and pulls him aside and tells him, you're not going to get the job. and thurgood marshall feels so deflated -- of course, he plays the role, plays it out like no big deal, i didn't come here thinking it was going to be my job but it's the next day, the

next day when he's in his office, he's supposed to go over to the white house to speak to a bunch of visiting students, and he's told, you know, stop by the oval office and say hello to the president. and when he does so, clears his throat so he can catch the president's attention as the president is bent over what is a teletype ticker in the oval office bringing the latest news over the wire service. he said i'm going to put you on the court and thurgood marshall goes, what? you know, oh, my god, what did you say? and it's just for him, you know, a moment that is so satisfying. it was his dream come true. >> host: what does that tell but lyndon johnson? >> guest: he's a game-player and he was constantly jerking people's chains. he always wanted you to know that he had control of the situation. he had control of you. he was bigger than you, and that you were someone who was public

puppet in his game. >> host: i'm going to fast forward to the end of his term, 1991, because the editorial -- the review writes that he left the court not in victorious spirit but in anguish over a task that remained woefully incomplete. >> guest: well, he felt that in terms of transforming the country on race, that in so many ways the country was headed backwards. you know, it's so ironic what a life of accomplishment and you would imagine that this person would have a sense that he led a complete life, that he achieved so much. he's born, you know, 1908 in baltimore, maryland. and when he dies in 1990s. he lived in every decade in the 20th century he's literally transformed the country in so many ways. i mean, if you think about 1896 plessy versus ferguson, separate but equal, brown versus brown of education. he has turned the government from a position of enforcing segregation as a legitimate way

to treat its black citizens to one in which the no, we are going to stand tall not only in terms of schoolhouse door in topeka, kansas and it leads to school houses in mississippi, alabama and the like. leads to arguably the great march on washington. the passage of the civil rights act, the voting rights act. all that and when he gets on the court, especially, after earl warren leaves, in comes, you know, other chief justices but especially rehnquist, i think he feels that he is shunted off to the left wing of the court with his friend, bill brennan, and that people aren't listening to him and that he's not having the opportunity to really shape the law at that point. that he's just dealing with what he views is a reactionary right wing that is constantly undercutting not only affirmative action and they cut it time and again and all he can

do at this point is write dissents and hope they become the basis of future majority opinions when the court changes its composition. >> host: in describing him, you use the word exceptional, an exceptional family growing up in an exceptional place in baltimore. >> guest: oh, without a doubt. what a fascinating history. i mean, for me, you know, steve, what happened was -- i had written "eyes on the prize: america's civil rights years, 1954-1965" and in the course of doing the research for that book, i had come across the idea, wait a minute, there's one historic figure in this book still alive, still an active person in american society, thurgood marshall, who sits on the supreme court. this is in the late 1980s. and i thought, you know, he lives in the same city that i lives in. nobody ever speaks of this guy. there's no great biography of thurgood marshall. how can that be? i began writing notes to him, making calls to his friends, former law clerks asking them, you know, could i have access to justice marshall? and the answer overwhelmingly was just no.

no way. he just doesn't talk to reporters. he's still mad about bob woodward's book the brethren in which he's portrayed as something of a buffoon. feels reporters don't understand him and treat him badly. and that, you know, the way he views himself was someone who has stayed on the court despite, you know, having suffered everything from a bout of pneumonia that almost killed him to broken bones, to the right ward shift on the court that he's there as the first african-american. remember, when he's on the court there's no women, no minorities, no hispanics for certain. and so he's there feeling like, you know, i'm the first person here who's ever had to defend someone in a capital crime where their life was on the line and the only one who understands what it's like to be involved in an abortion case. he was the kind of lawyer. he was a hands-on lawyer and so he's there and he's struggling and absolutely angry at

reporters. even when his former friend carl rowan tried to help him do a book, the deal exploded. the book was supposed to, you know, be thurgood marshall's autobiography if you will and he couldn't stand the questions coming from carl rowan about cases that he had lost. so he just is not the kind of person who wants to talk or wants to share. but after i finished "eyes on the prize: america's civil rights years, 1954-1965" and come back to work at the "washington post"÷ds i continueo send notes up to the supreme court and finally got a call one day asking me to come up. he said he wanted to have tea. and i don't particularly like tea. tea is okay, is this an interview? is this not an interview? what is it? and he just kind of hung up on me. he had to go through katherine graham who was then the publisher of the paper to reach me. it was just a surprise. i called all around town, you know, why is thurgood marshall finally said yes all these years of finally saying no but the key to me was all of a sudden to

hear his voice and to understand he was such an exceptional person in the last century that arguably he shapes -- he's the great architect of race relations as we know it and as we come into the 21st century, in a much more diverse, multiracial society, continues to welcome immigrants, continues to be a beacon around the world where people believe there is racial religious tolerance. so much of that framework in terms of how we understand america's law today can be directly traced to thurgood marshall's work. i remember everything from the end of restrictive covenants that kept blacks, jews, hispanics out of certain neighborhoods to the right of all races to serve on jury, equal education. that's all thurgood marshall's work. >> host: a distinguished author, juan williams, with his six books and he's with us for the next three hours. as always, our phone lines are open. the number is on the bottom of your screen.

you can also go to our twitter address or send us an email at book tv at c-span.org. i want to ask you about "eyes on the prize." let me go back to the final years of thurgood marshall health not want -- he did not want to leave the court? >> guest: he did not want to leave the court shot by a jealous husband. in a more serious vein -- when president johnson gave him an appointment and he intended to serve it and he felt at times jimmy carter never had a supreme court appointment and when jimmy carter was coming towards the end of his term, he made noises and sent messages, thurgood marshall, said suggesting maybe if he stepped down he would arrange for another black person to take that job. marshall was in bad health and

grumpy and not all that content. and thurgood marshall pretty much used profanity in response to the messenger and to president carter saying you know what? this is my job. i'm doing it. i was put here for a reason. and it's not for you to judge. and, you know, he became highly contankerus if people would complain about his behavior but he didn't have any desire to leave that job. he saw it as the capstone of his life and arguably it was. >> host: what did he think of clarence thomas? >> guest: it's very interesting because clarence thomas -- most people who come up to me and ask this question assume there was a great deal of antagonism between the two. in fact, i'm told by people who were with justice marshall during the very controversial thomas hearings, remember thomas and anita hill, that justice marshall at one point began to cry and the reason was he felt people were not taking the future justice thomas seriously. they didn't understand what a young man he was.

how long he would be on the court. the impact he would have. in a press conference that he had at the time that he announced his retirement from the court, justice marshall had spoken about there not being a black seat and there's no reason to replace him with a black snake. a black snake is the same as a whitesnake his father said. this was not in reference from justice thomas and a suggestion of how justice marshall felt there was no one person who could replace him. he had a strong sense of ego even as he was insecure. and so when justice thomas is finally confirmed, justice thomas arranges to have a sit-down, a cup of tea with all the members of the court, a get to know you moment and they typically last 15 minutes or a half hour. but he also arranged to meet the man who was his predecessor, thurgood marshall, then in a chamber on the upper level of

the court because, in fact, thomas takes his chambers. and so he goes up to meet with him and instead of lasting for 15 minutes to half hour, it lasts three hours this conversation. and according to both sides, it was a very good conversation in which marshall did most of the talking. and marshall basically welcome back him to the court and says, you know, you got to leave a lot of that partisan political static that attended your confirmation hearings outside the court because the american people have to believe in the supreme court. we don't have an army here. they believe in our credibility. they trust in us. and so you have got to come here as a member of this court's family. you got to understand that even though you may disagree with people, these are people that you're living with. these are people that you're in conversation and conference with. and they become your brethren. and they spoke a little bit about marshall's view of civil rights and the black man's role in terms of the court. and talked about his experience with the law. and it was quite a contrast because, you know, marshall grew up in a fairly middle class family coming out of baltimore,

maryland, obviously, justice thomas had grown up in poverty in georgia. and so here were these two men talking, though -- marshall talking much more in terms of support for affirmative action, changing the constitution so that the constitution that had been so punitive in allowed oppression of slavery of black people would now allow black people to rise up and to gain some measure of equality and thomas speaking more in terms of understanding, you know, you got to be race-neutral. you got to remove race from the equation rather than be so race-conscious as to then engage in, i guess, what justice thomas would view as reverse discrimination. >> host: you write in thurgood marshall the second of the civil war which as you mentioned earlier began with "eyes on the prize." i want to show an excerpt of the documentary that coordinated

with the book. how did this book come about? >> guest: henry hampton, who is really the father of "eyes on the prize" because he's the man who came up with the idea to do the documentary and i must say, you know, henry is now gone, but he is one of my mentors and he was a friend and he is someone who struggled to make this a reality. he had been working as a p.r. spokesman and gone down to selma at that time -- he was working as a p.r. spokesman when jim read was killed down there, a white minister, and explained why this white minister was involved and overwhelmed by the drama of the movement. he came back later, began making small commercial advertisements for the military and the governments and thought one day he would build up sufficient money so he could make his civil rights documentary. after the tremendous success

that "roots" had on abc but they wanted it to be like a song and dance drama and they were thinking about maybe sammy davis playing martin luther king king and henry said i'm not talking about. i'm talking about the real story and went about trying to raise money for this project. and as he got the film project going and one of the sources of revenue that became apparent to him was potentially a book and that's when he came to me and it was early in the process and i was at the time covering the reagan white house for "the washington post" and there's only so much you can get in terms of of a newspaper story so i was using the sunday outlook or the news and review section to have longer pieces what was going on with race relations under reagan and henry had seen these pieces and liked them and had some interest and he had me come up to boston and how i would tell the civil rights movement. there was so many people -- he was bringing in producers and filmmakers and they were having schools with people who were

academics who were students of the civil rights era. and i really felt at times out of step with them because they were so strongly partisan in a way that they wanted to tell the story. and when henry and others asked me how i would tell the story, i said let's tell it straight because i think this is such an american, wonderful story full of natural heroes and villains. you don't have to guild a lily. and i said harry is not going to hire me and he called me and that's what i want for the story and you can do a level of writing because of the time constraints but help us tell the story so i took some time off from the "post" in the mid-'80s and wrote "eyes on the prize: america's civil rights years, 1954-1965." >> you wrote in the "washington post" we may need more than three hours to get this all in. let me show the audience an excerpt from the documentary which came out when? >> guest: well, the book is published in -- i believe it's early '88 and it's just before

documentary goes on pbs in 1988 as well. >> host: here's part of "eyes on the prize." ♪ go tell it on the notes ♪ over the hills and everywhere ♪ ♪ go tell it -- >> in a ten-year period in the 1950s and 1960s, america fought a second revolution. ♪ >> it was fought in the south by black people and white. it was fought in the streets in churches, in ports, in schools. it was fought to make america be america for all its citizens. these were american civil rights years. >> host: how would you describe this period in the 1950s to young african-americans who only read about it through history books? and we should point out the year you were born, 1954.

>> guest: exactly. you know what was so interesting to me as i went on the book tour for eyes on the prize realizing how many people hadn't lived through this era. this was in the late '80s and early '90s. today it's overwhelming, most americans today, a quarter of the population under 18, they have no concept. what they know is that martin luther king is a hero or to be viewed as a hero, viewed positively. although you get some young people he's just a milquetoast image. they want a more -- >> host: malcolm x. >> guest: with a defiant black voice. and then you get people who just don't understand. i mean, it's something like a colored drinking fountain just bizarre to them. or you get white kids who don't understand how recent so many of these indignities and limits in terms of educational and economic opportunities were put on black people. so in a way it's like having a conversation with people who

feel that they know all about race 'cause everybody think they are so immersed in the racial conversation but in terms of the history, black and white oftentimes have no idea and so it's like you're bringing news to them when you have a discussion of this. it's always been a challenge to me to tell the history in such a way as to bring it to life. and i usually think it's the best done through characters. by getting them to understand what human beings were going through in that period. >> host: we welcome shaun who's joining us from vancouver in british columbia. go ahead, please. >> caller: i'm in vancouver, washington. >> host: go ahead. >> caller: mr. williams, for decades now we've heard that when it comes to public schools, hospitals, public housing and other infrastructure projects in general, that would constitute something like a marshall plan for america or a peace dividend for winning the cold war at that there just isn't the money for it. and that, you know, it would just grow the size of the national debt. we've also been hearing over the years as we've experienced deindustrialization and deregulation in past so-called

free trade agreements that we had to do so because of the scientific laws of free market economics. all of which have now been totally contradicted by the t.a.r.p. and the t.a.l.f. as well as contradicting the ideas of fiscal discipline. so i guess what i'm getting at, professor -- mr. williams, is that it seems that the bodies of poor black children and the bodies of poor white children are not too big to fail. i guess they're too small to matter. and instead of being too interconnected, they're too disconnected to matter. they don't have lobbyists on the hill. so we see healthcare reform in pieces on the floor. you know, these wall street parasites have taken over our government and in my opinion, the civil rights movement, the union movement, women's rights -- none of that -- even gandhi in india, he would have gotten nowhere if it hadn't been the soviet union looming in the background and it seems me until we reach a point in which poor

people are organized and willing to struggle against the wall street capitalists, we're going to continue to see a roll-back of all the gains of the civil rights and the labor movement. i was hoping you'd comment. >> host: thank you shaun from washington state. >> guest: shaun, i don't think we're in any danger of seeing a roll-back of the civil rights movement. the civil rights movement have transformed america. we have other groups from american indians to latinos, gay rights groups, children's rights groups who have emulated the very legal strategy that thurgood marshall used to transform the laws of america and allow for equality and inclusion. i think what you're talking about is more on an economic basis and the increasing class stratification that we see in the united states today. and i'm reminded -- i remember sitting with thurgood marshall and saying to him, you know, if you were a young man today, going forward in your legal career, what would you be doing? what would you be putting your

legal energies into? and he surprised me because he said, you know, he would represent children. because children don't seem to have any legal rights in this country. that if you're under 18, if you have bad parents, if you have bad schools, if people are exploiting you in terms of everything from gangs to police, you just have no standing in the court. and he thought that children should have legal rights. so when i hear shaun in van could have talk about people exploiting the bodies of little black and white children, that, you know, the wall street people getting away with sort of bleeding the economy and so many of the social policies that would benefit the most needy in the country not being there, i think back to marshall's insi insisteninsis insistence that they have some legal standing. >> host: our twitter address is book tv.

go ahead, please. >> caller: good afternoon to both of you. >> guest: hey, robert. >> caller: it's good afternoon. it's the afternoon. sometimes i see his lips are moving and i'm not hearing anything or i'm -- i'm hearing him or his lips are not moving. >> host: there's a little bit of a delay on cable but we can hear you. go ahead and ask your question so thanks for question. >> caller: i have respect for your analysis on the news and by the way, sir, you were born one year before lucy was tried in the university. i mean, i'm just across from the university. and i notice i see you with brit hume but it appears to me that sometimes you cater to brit hume and they seem to be two of the most intolerant save george will

that comes on as news analysis. will you answer a question and i would have another statement to make, do you cater to those people. >> guest: no i think they're intelligent people and they're colleagues at fox. fox news is more conservative. that's the niche that fox news occupies. i find myself having to react to them and to engage them to debate them. and so when they have a good point, i acknowledge it. but i think i'm there to bring up different points of view and make sure that the discussion has some variety and some -- from my point of view, some reality to it 'cause i think oftentimes they can go off to the right side of the political spectrum. >> caller: you call it right. i'm sorry? >> caller: i call them intolerant. in reference to judge thomas, i think the first president bush -- i don't think he intended to have another black man on the court.

i think what he did -- he gave -- he gave us clarence thomas and he wouldn't get confirmed. i think he wanted to keep the court all white instead of getting a black man that's my opinion because i don't think he thought mr. thomas at the time was the most experienced black person to be on the courts. and you can't even compare him in my opinion with what i observed of thurgood marshall. >> host: we'll get a response. thank you, robert. >> guest: oh, i think clarence thomas is eminently qualified to be on the supreme court. you know, it's not always about somebody saying, well, is this person better than that person? it's about politics and certainly clarence thomas is a conservative. and george herbert walker bush wanted a conservative presence on the court. and i remember covering clarence thomas early on. justice thomas was a source for

me when he was first in the education department and then at eeoc and the district of columbia court of appeals. and i must tell you, you know, it's interesting people in the reagan and then the bush administration oftentimes viewed him as not sufficiently conservative. they wished he was more outspoken and there were people, black people, including black people in the reagan and bush administrations who thought, you know, clarence thomas should be more outspoken. he should take on some of these issues. but you look back and, you know, he transformed the equal employment opportunity commission. brought them into the 20th century in terms of computers and the like, got a lot of the backlog out of the way. satisfied it. changed the framework in the way of thinking. went much away from class action suits to individual claims of discrimination. that was his conservative viewpoint and i think he brings a conservative viewpoint to the court and i think that's what the first president bush very much wanted. and i don't think despite the

caller's claim that there was any effort to have an all-white court or a thought that somehow clarence thomas would be defeated to the contrary, there was tremendous support for clarence thomas during those confirmation hearings and the thought was that the narrative of his life story as a poor kid from georgia who had gone on to holy cross and yale and made something of himself was an inspirational story to sail through those hearings. they had no anticipation that anita hill was going to pop up and create such a problem for clarence thomas. >> host: butch is joining us next from jackson, wyoming. go ahead, please. caller, are you with us? we'll try one more time. i'll go to david in tulsa, oklahoma. go ahead, david. >> caller: hi, mr. williams. first, i would like to share with you -- i'm a high school u.s. history teacher. and eyes on the prize has educated my students for the last couple of decades concerning the modern civil

rights movement. >> guest: let me just interrupt you and say thank you for using it. you know, i wrote this book, as i was telling steve, in conjunction with the pbs series, it's just gratifying when i hear you say that because i wrote it taking time off at my job at the "washington post" in a basement in boston and traveling around on a shoestring because we didn't have much money and for you to tell me it's still being used and people value it especially a history teacher like you, i just want to say thanks. >> caller: thank you. and you are welcomed. there's not a better tool to teacher the modern civil rights movement. trust me. i've tried other things. my question for you is, during the modern civil rights movement, sometimes we forget it was during the heart of the cold war. how did the soviet union propagandaize the modern civil rights movement and did have it any affect on the politics in the united states?

>> guest: oh, yeah, it did tremendous effect on the politics. what they tried to propagandized that black people had no rights. as a beacon of democracy to the world for all of its claims after world war ii, that in the united states there was this rank oppression of black people. maltreatment of american citizens, you know, and that the united states was engaged in high hypocrisy. and you think back, you know, to some of the arguments that were taking place in this country inside the civil rights movement and it was about the communist influence on the movement and then the counter effort by the likes of people like walter white who was the head of the naacp for such a while to say, you know, we had nothing to do with the communists and, of course, you get people like w.e. dubois who was challenging the white and leading more toward

socialism and the support from socialism that was coming from the former soviet union. you think so much of, you know, the arguments over the great actor -- i'm blocking on his name, paul -- blocking on his name. but, you know, who was very much thinking that, you know, it's possible that the soviet union had a different model in mind for treatment and equality of all races given what was happening here in the united states. and paul robeson. and so robeson, of course, becomes sort of enamored of that soviet model and thinks that might be the way out and, of course, that leads him to be black balled to so many issues that surrounded him. i can think also of a case of some members of the naacp who began to espouse communist doctrine in naacp chapters and that leads, of course, to then especially in the south, the

white segregationist politicians to claim it's nothing by a white segregationist, white communists causing trouble who were threatening the very ideals of the united states. so that was one way to try to diminish, if not dismiss the civil rights movement. >> host: this is from your book in 1963. organizers thought maybe a few thousand would show up. 250,000 people showed up on that august day. why? >> guest: well, you know, it was so heavily organized. and what's very interesting about this, steve, a. philip randolph -- this is really his moment. of course, we remember it in terms of martin luther king, jr., in i have a dream speech on the steps of the memorial but what's compelling if you look at the front line of the great marshall on washington, there you have a. philip -- you have people from -- you have dr. king

from the southern christian leadership conference. you have people there from the naacp and you have such a range of representation. people from the labor unions, people from religious groups, not only mainstream religious groups but some that, you know, are small in the united states. you have jewish groups, everybody represented there. and this had somehow become known as the moment to show up. and the government was even scared -- so scared that they shut down washington that day. they positioned national guard troops just outside the city. there was fear that this was going to lead to rioting and they were thinking it was going to be a travesty but people had the sense that this was the moment. if there was going to be a civil rights act, it was time to speak to the government. it was time to speak in such a way that the government could hear that people of good will, people of conscience thought it was time to make progress on this civil rights issue.

>> host: where was president kennedy that day? >> guest: at the white house. there was some thought should he participate and again, for fear that this was going to become a violent episode, he was held away from it. did not participate. it was only afterwards, once it was clear that it was a tremendous success, that he then invites the leaders of the march to come to the white house for lemonade. >> host: our conversation is with juan williams. >> caller: thank you for taking my calls. i've seen you go at it with bill crystal and my friends written the historical account that took us into iraq. >> host: any response? >> guest: well, i think -- i go at it with bill crystal and brit hume, you know, what's interesting to me is these are various aspects of my life, steve. and on one level i'm doing history and one level i do journalism for fox news and npr

and on fox it's mostly debate. it shapes how i'm seen in the world. and it's so interesting at times, you know, people will see me as the liberal or the conservative or -- but it's so hard especially in this kind of niche media that we have today to be seen, you know, as simply trying to give people information because you so often get involved in these highly politicalized debates but i think it makes for good tv. >> host: our twitter address is book tv c-span2. you can send us is email or give us a call. i want to talk about bill cosby. these are his words. i'm talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. where were they when he was 2? where were you when he was 12? where were you when he was 18? and how come you don't know he had a pistol? and where is his father? and why don't you know where he is? and why doesn't the father show up and talk to this boy?

>> guest: it's just powerful stuff to me. it's part of what i think is the evidence of an ongoing civil rights struggle in this country. that you have bill cosby a man of such high esteem, not only in the black community but america and the nation, such tremendous success who's willing to stand up and challenge the powers that be in the black community about the way things are going. to point out when you look at the crime rate, when you look at the celebration of gangster culture in the black community, that somebody needs to stand up and speak out aggressively about what is becoming dysfunction in the black community. so this book enough is more of a polemic than a history book. but it's framed around bill cosby taking a heroic stand and saying, you know, what a lot of people don't want to be said. a lot of people don't want to hear, which is that if you're dealing with kids who aren't

getting educated, who are dropping out of school, more than a 50% rate if you're dealing with people who are being incarcerated, black americans, you know, more than 40% of the prison population despite, you know, being 13, 14% of the population. when you're dealing with so many children born out-of-wedlock, especially, in the black community, 70% of black children born to single mothers, here's bill cosby saying how can we not view this as a crisis? how can we not all be talking about it? and why are some people claiming it's a matter of airing dirty laundry when, in fact, you have a situation which as you just heard him describe, you know, where kids are suffering. and yet somehow in the black community the leadership is heavily invested in argument business reparations or three strikes and you're out or some act of what they would view as a public racism or the police did something as opposed to things that can be controlled, arguments that are taking place inside that black community.

and i think that's why when bill cosby spoke out, it became so controversial because people knew that what he was saying was true. it was just difficult for some people to hear it. >> host: in fact, in the book you say that he does so without dressing up his thoughts with statistical data. >> guest: right. you know, he was not trying to present it as a sociologist or as a political force. i mean, it's his nature -- i mean, the man tells stories. he's a great comedian. >> host: unlike the covenant with black america, a bestselling anthology with concrete proposals >> host: commonsense? >> guest: i think it's commonsense but you know a lot of people thought this was radical a radical proposal. you know what if you're not

speaking to people in terms of that would suggest that they have control over their lives and their circumstance -- if you're not saying to people given that 25% of the black and hispanic population live in poverty, here are concrete steps that you can take to pull yourself, to help your children get out of poverty, then i don't know what you're doing. that's what i'm saying. here are steps that are not arguable. it's not a matter of debate. you look at these numbers and you take these steps, finishing high school. if you do the step of holding onto a job, getting a job and holding onto that job -- if you take the step in marrying until you finish high school or having children after the age of 21. yet you don't hear this message delivered by civil rights leaders in terms of -- the argument becomes oh, are you one of those people who's all about personal responsibility versus making claims against the larger

system and charges that the larger system is historically racist and bias and all sorts of conspiracy theories, but i think that at some point, and i think this is what in the spirit of bill cosby, you have to respect that individual especially the minority kid, here's how you can help yourself and that's what the proscriptions are, to guarantee yourself success. >> host: what percentage of african-american boys and men under the age of 35 are incarcerated? >> guest: it's very high. it's a little more than 20%. it's really troubling when you get under 30, steve, it goes up. and then it starts to go down, of course, there's lots of recidivism. but part of this issue is why you have so many young black men in prison today. and, you know, it extends into the culture. the celebration of rap music and the whole notion of criminality.

young people saying it's just a right of passage for a young black man to go to jail. the way people dress, i think, they dress like they just got out of jail. they don't have a belt to hold their pants up or shoelaces for their shoes because the warden wouldn't give it to them and this is part of the hip hop culture and the whole family life and the male is absent and the breakdown of family life in the black community. these are the stories of this time. and it's difficult because it's a hard story to hear. and yet, you know, people like bill cosby who are brave enough to speak out i think are the avant-garde. they are the leaders for poor black people. >> host: this is the next struggle of the civil rights movement? >> guest: yes. obviously, if you're going to have -- i mean, i did some research a little more than a year ago with the pew research center for the press and the people. we were doing polls about what black peoples thought in

reaction to what it was at the time the obama campaign. and the most astounding discovery was that if you ask poor black people what's going on inside black america they say well, there's no longer one black america. it's two black americas there's two black people those who have not advanced with doors of education and the like versus upper incomed black americans, you know, the barack obamas of the world who have benefited and have moved on and they see them as a separate race. you know the white eyes they're all black people but not to poor black people. poor black people see themselves caught in a specific circumstance, in a cycle of poverty that often repeats generation to generation. that involves those high levels of incarceration and involves the bad schools. involves the kind of drug acceptance of drug behavior and all that and the family breakdown. the question is, how do you hold this together? you often see a lot of guilt on the part of middle class black

people saying i haven't forgotten where i come from and i'm reaching back. for poor black people this is simple rhetoric and they want to see action. and i think they need action that's very specific in terms of trying to extricate from the problems of poverty and disenfranchisement that persist for the society in poor but especially for poor minorities. >> host: our guest is juan williams, the author of six books on race in america. daniel is on the phone from woodridge, new jersey. good morning. >> caller: good morning. i'm very grateful to c-span for this opportunity to talk to you. i have loved your writings and your commentary. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: i want to compliment you on the "eyes on the price." that's a book i have read and i have learned a great deal of it. >> guest: thank you. >> caller: i'm a professor of criminal justice. >> guest: yes, in new york.

>> caller: i'm from sri lanka myself so we have gone through this terrible crisis in sri lanka. i have a couple of comments. one is the conversation that you're having within the justice system. i'm in the process of trying to write a book called -- it's going to be entitled "the last plantation" the criminal justice system and the united states. because about 60% of all the people who are incarcerated in the united states happen to be minorities. only 40% white. in the national league, ok. then how come guys that get drunk driving convictions are allowed to come back? >> wasn't on his watch -- >> well, jared allen has been playing on his watch. how come guys who have done the things they've done off the field, guns, all this other stuff, he's not as worried about their mental well being. this is for show.

i think this guy has a chance to be a great commissioner. he doesn't want him there on opening day. >> see, what concerns me about this is the fact that by doing this you're basically saying that the last two years, he was not being punished at all, at least as far as the national football league goes. he was unable to make money, unable to play, he was in prison. so, now, why the extra punishment? >> because you want to make certain -- you have no idea as the commissioner of the national football league right now, whether or not this guy is ready to step back into the league. he lied to you the last time he talked to you. so, you don't know. and by the way, the notion that he's not going to be able to earn money, he's got over $100 million sitting there with the u.f.l. they have said we want you. they said we don't care about the negative blow back. we want people to come, if they're protesting, come on, play with us. you get six games at least to show everybody that you can play. then you come back as a free

agent by thanksgiving. what's wrong with that? >> one million is not $72 million. some guy who turned down millions, but have we seen the last of brett favre? >> we have never seen the last of brett favre. [laughter] >> and i don't think that there's anything wrong with a player playing until the tank is empty. i think that every professional athlete should do that because of their unique situation. you can't come back when you're 50. but the problem with this soap opera is that he has put himself ahead of every other idea to this -- [laughter] >> stay or go, isn't it? stay or go, and ai'm going to play until i can play no more. >> he was, for the last nearly two decades, he was as compelling a figure as there was in sports. michael jordan as well. but he's going to be remembered for this dance, this idiotic

streak, for going to super bowls, he won one and being a guy who made you believe the packers were never out of a game. and we talk about tainting? he's tainted his own reputation and he never had to take a steroid to do it. >> you know what, i remember watching willie mays, i was going to say roaming the outfield in the mets uniform, but he wasn't, he was just standing there. no, we're not going to remember him for this. short-term we will, but over the long-term, when we look back at brett favre, he's going to be the champion quarterback, that's what we'll remember. >> if the phone rings in november -- >> don'tens it! don't answer it! >> the thing is he probably will pick it up. back in the day, ancient olympians competed in the nude. gwynn the latest swimsuit controversy involving michael phelps, is it time to turn back more cash over here!

it's much easier to find money at esurance. great auto insurance rates and lots of discounts! got insurance already? save more with esurance's "switch & save (tm) discount"! it also pays to shop online. you get esurance's "fast 5 (tm) discount" just for getting an instant online quote. - thanks, professor. - don't forget the good student discount. and there's even more discounts! it's no "secret" that you can save hundreds with esurance. make it your "mission" to click or call esurance today.

testing. test. testing. testing.

>> when germany's paul beaterman knocked four seconds off his knocked four seconds off his this is a test. testing. testing. e there will be a time when i can beat michael phelps without the suit. his new suit turned him into a kayak, while phelps had to get

buy in his old speedo. clothes make the man, but do they make for world records as well? well? testing. test, testing. testing. tithis is a test. anything i ca fascinating about these guys when they get wet. the records that are being set, the clothes are going the be thrown out. so these clothes, which, don't look anything like what i wear on the beach -- [laughter] >> and thank goodness for that. >> those records are still going to stand. but, what has happened to sports? this might be a slight digregs, when the swimmers are trash talking now. i mean they were trash talking in the tour de france. the whole thing is out of control. >> well, mike, i'm glad you don't wear it on the beach because you would look like a sea otter. [laughter] you put the body armor on, but the records hold. >> i'm just happy that they

can't outlaw speedos, because i can go out on the beach like that. you want to see a sight? >> when we return, our parting shots. we'll take a look at tom brady. he'll be 32 this month. will be he the brady of old? ♪ lollipop, lollipop, ♪ oh lolli, lolli, lolli.. ♪ ♪ (plant announcer) attention! select dell minis come standard with verizon wireless mobile broadband built-in... so you can surf the web. check email. chat and download on the go. all on america's largest and most reliable 3g network. (announcer) treat yourself to the ten-inch mini with your choice of six colors, starting at just $399. dell. yours is here.

>> time now for parting shots. >> for more than 20 years, david stern has been the measuring stick for how a modern

professional sports commissioner should behave. it's clear that none of these guys believe me, but i think roger goodell is the new gage. without any of stern's arrogance, goodell has become a no nonsense commissioner. always protecting the league while dispensing the justice with a studied plan that uses cultural and generation awareness. but his biggest challenge lies ahead. it's time for goodell and his players association counter part demaurice smith to do part by the ledges of retired players who are not being treated fairly when it comes to health benefits. the goodell wants to be the compassionate commissioner who relishes protecting his shield, it ought to begin protecting the very players who helped create the shield. and both goodell and smith would do well to stop thinking of these men as chips to be bargained or tools to be discarded. >> the new york yankees have done fine so far this season after not making the playoffs last season for the first time in a full season of baseball since 1993.

they're still in first place in the american league east by a half game over the red sox. after the biggest offseason spending spree in the history of pro sports, the bar's going to be set a bit higher than that the yankees spent $441 million on c.c. sabathia, a.j. burnett and mark teixeira. it's not just the pay roll and ticket prices that are so high in the bronx. so are the stakes. in this decade, the yankees have had the greatest financial advantage over the competition that any team has in any sport in the country. they spent $200 million a year on baseball players and more on revenue sharing and luxury taxes. the last time they made it past the first round of the playoffs was 2004. the last time they one the world series was in 2000, and that was over the mets, which i don't think should count. but no big money was added to the pay roll this year at the trade deadline. they still better win. the empty seats at the new

stadium, those can be explained. the yankees finishing out of the money again would be more difficult. >> nearly two years ago the indians were at the top of the world, it was october, they held a 3-1 lead in the american league championship series over the red sox with game five the clincher at home. they were living the dream, a young star-stacked home grown team with a vibrant front office on the cusp of the world series. cleveland lost the next three games, the red sox ended up winning the world series and on friday they completed one of the most stunning dismanhattanning in history. last year, c.c. sabathia and casey blame gone. rine garko, victor martinez, all gone. that's the last two cy young winners gone a -- win or lose, the indians would have had to rebuild. but i don't think so. if you don't believe that one loss can devastate a franchise, think again. >> every nfl season starts with more questions than answers, but

this year could potentially determine the balance of power for the next few seasons. two years ago, tom brady set an nfl record with 50 touchdown passes. last year, he threw 11. not touchdown passes, just 11 passes before a knee injury cost him the season. matt cassel became a star leaving the patriots to an 11-5 record, but not the playoffs. now he's rich in kansas city. but what if brady is never brady again? what if the knee keeps his mind in check and puts his magic on hold. i'm not suggesting he'll be scared, but a bad knee in the pocket has to get to any quarterback. will he be able to find rande you moss the way he did in 2007? if not, the patriots become just another team. of course, brady's already shown toughness this offseason. he got married. please join us again next sunday for another edition of "the sports reporters." we're on each sunday morning at 9:30 a.m. eastern time right here on espn. and on serious satellite radio,

channel 121 at 9:30. if you miss part of the show, welcome to nats xtra. sunday baseball with you, brian kerr and ray knight, nags against the pirates. trying to get on the board. 11-6 yesterday. tremendous offensive performance by the pirates, and the nats bats were pretty good, but pitching didn't come through. >> yeah, we keep saying pitching and defense, and yesterday we didn't get the pitching. stamp men threw 80% fastballs, just 44 michigan, so he never got much of anything, but mccutchen was all over him,

got base hits early, and he complaints get the ball down, and he's the guy that has to keep the ball down. two outings that he is struggled with, and out of the last two starts, he struggled, with you prior to that, he's laid a good foundation with 6 starts with earned run average under 3, walked 11 hitters in 10 outings. so he is for real. and you'll have off nights. >> andrew mccutchen will remember that night, 3 home runs doubling his total for the year. >> we were watching this kid, and been doing reading on him. i've never seen a kid with so many accolades from high school on. he is the number one rated guy coming into the year. the fastest gyrated in the organization, one of the top 5 in the national league as far as his ability to run. they said he was the best outfielder in the organization even when they had mclouth and

nyjer morgan. i don't know about that. but he was so good as a freshman. he anchored the 4 by 100 team in florida that won the state record. >> the other hit was that bunt, and turned it all the way around. he drew operates from riggleman. >> he was really good -- he drew prays from riggleman. >> he was really good. you are read about him for a year or two now, he's here, and he's going to be a force to deal w but we have to make better pitches than that. he really was on the ball good, but we just, you know, we can't make consistently pitches to him that he can throw the barrel of the bat over the plate. >> craig didn't get offer to the start he. they were -- what went on with

stammen. he was not able to put people away. when he got to 1-1, instead of singling that fastball, he kept missing. so he had to bring it up. and it's difficult when you're facing a team that you don't know a lot about. this lineup, save for make laroche, he didn't know anything about, -- save for adam laroche, he dent know anything about them. that's not what his forte is. he puts that ball down and in, back to the corner of the plate. that ball was down. ball hit off him. he made sure to field the ball, but there's the hanging breaking ball. he wasn't thrown five of them in any of his outings. so just a real simple thing, location. fastball away, but it's hit off the end of the bat. couple of bloopers, but that mixed with some bombs, and balls

finding homes made for a short day -- finding holes, made for a short day. >> we saw the pitching coach trying to get him straight. afterwards, mick catty had words for the entire staff. >> i didn't make the pitches when i needed to, didn't really throw too many competitive pitches out there, you know, and got beat. the coach told me this happens at every level, and that was back at the low levels of the minors, and they're embarrassing, and unacceptable. but you have to learn to bounce back from and deal with it. >> so very interesting stuff there that was talked about after the game. there was a delay, sometimes you think it was riggleman talking, but he talked about what happened, but stammen brought it out, everybody has to be an

accountable. >> it's probably just the pitching coach seeing something, i'm not sure what he's seeing, but something has changed, and he's trying to re identify what he expects from them and making sure it doesn't get out of hand. that they come right back to throwing the ball to the strike zone. i know what his philosophy is. throw the ball down the middle, let your movement move the ball to the inside, as with davie johnson he's philosophy, and let your stuff do the job. you can't throw it up. it has to be down, and elevate with the fastball when you get two strikes. that's what caused clipper to have a little problem. guys have jumped on him. >> offensively, ray, nice go for ryan zimmerman, a nice streak for him, showing some power power, getting on base. >> he has already been a 20, 25 home run guy, but he is swinging the bat at a pace where he will end up with 30 home runs. he has had 12 games, five home

runs in the last 12 games. you go back to 2007, mid-august, when he had four home runs in 7 games, another big power outing he made. there you see the five home runs, and this is just 12 games. 14 runs, 12 rbis, that's serious numbers since he's gotten back to swinging the bat. now getting balls in the air and hitting balls out of the ballpark instead of doubles. >> what's been the difference for ryan recently? debbi had a chance to talk to the third baseman. >> debbi: ryan, you've been in such a groove at the plate, 5 for 11 in the series. is this the best you've seen the ball since the streak earlier in the year? >> you go up and down, i think earlier, you know, you run into bad luck, but lately, i've been getting some hits again, and getting on a roll.

>> debbi: can you tell us about your plan at the plate? rick said you really try to take control of the tempo, and that's made a difference. >> i think that and swinging strikes is a big thing for me. when i'm laying off giant of the borderline pitches, you know, even if is it is a strike. i'm laying off that pitch and waiting for pitcher to make a mistake. >> debbi: and the team overall has improved, one error in the last 8 games, what do you think has been the biggest difference there? >> i can't tell you. i think we've put an emphasize on that the whole year, and we are trying to play better defense. which is huge for us and the pitchers. we have more chances to win games. >> debbi: one of your closest friends, nick josh johnson was traded on friday. did you hear from him? did you text him? >> not yet. with the early game, i didn't stay up too late, but we'll keep in touch, i'm sure. and nick's a great player, a

great person. it's tough when something like that happens. you just hope for the best for him. >> debbi: do you like the direction the way the team is going, especially under jim riggleman? >> we're doing things better, playing better baseball, you know. we've lost some tough games in the paws four or five, but overall, we are playing better, and doing better as a time. >> thank you very much. let's go back to byron and ray in the studio. >> thank you, debbi. we are seeing more emotion from ryan, some of that pressure that 30-game hit streak early on, and he's starting to evolve. are we watching that evolve through his career? is he showing more emotion? >> it takes a long while. i know as people refer to me as a leader the last five or six years of my career, as you become more of a part of a ball club and as people around you show you more respect, as your numbers start to mount up and people tell you they like the way you play the game, then you

have, you have a strong feeling in that clubhouse that a lot of things around you that happens around you other people are watching, so yeah, you know that he's been able to lead by example. but i can just see by him him flexes his muscle, he's been a quiet leader, and he will become more vocal and assertive as his career goes on we're seeing power from cristian guzman and josh willingham. what about the hot bats for the nationals? we will spotlight those gentlemen next. so when you said you bring fiber optic

all the way to the home, you meant... we bring fiber optic all the way to the home. um... which gives you more bandwidth than cable. so you can upload faster. so it's like comparing a horse and buggy to a sports car. am i the, uh, horse? (announcer) it's a whole new internet. makes uploading as easy as downloading. because your internet's not fast unless it's two-way fast. . >> ryan zimmerman at third base, josh willingham in left feel, elijah dukes in right, belliard

will be playing first base today, day 06 for dunn, and wil nieves the catcher today, and -- laroche has been hitting the hot water for the pirates, .409 against the nationals. and mccutchen leads off, 3 home run game yesterday, former national last milledge followed by garrett jones who has the big bat. and there's laroche at third, ronnie cedeno at short, and maholm is the lefty going for the pirates. another wrap around game for monday. and josh willingham, cristian guzman, hot bats for the nats. we've talked about josh. >> you can not ask for a man to swing the bat better than josh willingham. number one, since july 1st. that's a pretty amazing stat

right there. four of them actually. five of them actually. on-base percentage, shrugging ribs, and home runs, he has come on like gang busters. that's why he was acquired. he has a great stroke. the reason he didn't get traded, i believe, is because he's going to be a cornerstone player. when he gets a good pitch, he can hit t nobody has a better quicker bat or faster to the ball on the team, certainly, adam dunn has more wall power. he has the short arms, goes right down to the ball, like steve garvey. he went right to the baseball, just like josh willingham. >> some people say nyjer is 29, josh is 30. that's getting up there. do you think that's the case for a major league baseball player? >> heck no! 29 or 30, you're in your prime. it used to be 28-32. these guys started developing so much earlier and having great years when they were 25, 26.

but the way they're in shape. you're talking about two guys in great shape. they will be able to play until 35 minimally. and by the time you take 2 or 3 years and stretch it out, the other guys will be developing. they are young enough, and in their prime, they will be big parts of this organization, and the climb to respectability for the next 2, 3, 4 years. >> another guy that's been hitting well, cristian guzman. we remember that 0-21 slump he got into, but now he's into the groove. >> chris can just flat-out hit. as he came back from the injuries, and when he gets hot, he is a goose on the loose. .469 multi hit games, second in the league last year, third in the game. and he's running harder, hustling more. not that he ever dogged it, but

he was more observant. he is losing range at shortstop. i don't think what the long term deal is with cristian guzman, because he is not, in my opinion, the type shortstop you have to have on a winning ball club, because he doesn't go to his left as well. that doesn't mean you don't plug up the hole possibly with him at second. because our second base men are not doing a lotto offensive. but he can flat-out hit. >> i see mikkatty had a meeting after the game. one guy that's had trouble is tyler clip part. >> he's going to be a guy, we have a comparison of the july 25th game. i was down there with johnny behind the plate, and he was lights out. 7 strikeouts in 4 innings, and talk about this kid, how he elevates the fastball when he gets head. the curveball and changeup early in the count, he has gone and thrown a couple of changeups at

ill advised times when the fastball is to good up. when he gets ahead of you, he can put you away: that was a changeup, wasn't a fastball. he has been beat twice on his changeup up, but when he has everything going, he's the guy that's middle of the bullpen guy that could move to the back end of the bullpen when you're in a strikeout situation. bases loaded. because he can miss bats. >> let's talk about that changeup. can he go fastball all the time? >> when you throw a lot of fastballs, and establish the fastball, when the batter's bat starts to get out in front of the fastball where he can pull it, you give him something soft, and that messes up his mind. you have to establish the fastball, first, by throwing it 2, 3 times. you can't do it the other way. you can't establish the changeup and expect the guy not to hit it

unless you then come inside with the fastball. if you show a lot of changeup, then you have to pitch to the hit test inside. >> now it's time for the stay in the game, just for men poll of the day. look at that. you can stay in the game with just for men hair color as we get ready for tonight matchup. mark stuck man will talk elijah dukes and his impact on the nationals as he returns to the lineup. and we get ready for the game against the pirates. an unstoppable force. because every coors light can is cold-activated. when the mountains turn blue,

your beer is as cold as the rockies. the coors light cold-activated can. enjoy refreshment at its peak. aaaaaahhh! frost-brewed coors light. the world's most refreshing beer.

♪ tell me who's watching. ♪ i always feel like somebody's watching me. ♪ (announcer) it's right here. it's easy. now that college is a few years behind me, it seems i've got three times the bills i used to. and they're getting in the way of things i'd like to do. with the money bar, i can move my money around instantly, so when there's more bills than usual, it's no problem. and i use the wish list to put any extra money aside for anything i want. being in control of my money feels good. introducing the virtual wallet from pnc, a high-definition, online view of your money. pnc. leading the way.

>> welcome back. getting ready for the pirates and nationals. time to talk about offense. let's bring in mark from the washington times, from pnc park. elijah dukes back with the nationals. this is a bigger audition for him, as he tried to solidify his place in the nats lineup. >> he's going to be out there, not every day, i would say, five days a week probably for the next two months. it's an important stretch for elijah. the nationals need to know by the end of the season if this guy is long-term. they have seen it in pieces here and there, but not over the long haul. it has been a long stretch. >> if he's not the answer to play there, with willingham playing left full-time, and will be here, and nyjer playing

center, who do we have to play left field or right field consistently? >> it's a good question. between dunn and willingham, obviously, that's two guys. you have to -- it sounds like the nationals are not going to be looking elsewhere for first base men in the off season. they have these guys for one position. >> thank you, mark. you look at what elijah dukes has in front of him, you see that trade go, nick johnson league, dunn vacating the outfield, you think elijah has this set up, but he still has to prove that he can play at that level. we saw him good last year from may to the end of the season where he almost had the.# hundred. he didn't have consistency, in 137 games,.

[ indiscernible ] had almost 27 doubles, so that projects to him hitting 25 home runs, driving in 90, .270, .290 batting average. if he have stays healthy i don't see he wouldn't win that. >> you say you like seeing guys being aggressive. what does elijah need to do. >> he needs to play. the patience will come. he wasn't patience when he was in the 7 and 8 home. when they move the him to the -- he just needs to, he just got called up. he's just as excited as anything else. sometime you think they're big, stuff, strong and sometime mean. they are just as emotional as the other guy, and he needs time. he'll settle down. >> the table is set for the starters, balester against

collin. we will spotlight balester as we get ready. pa announcer: final boarding call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com.

>> when he he is focused. he's the guy that can get you. look here, first three innings, he seems to be solid. through the 4th, and basically the 7th. 7.09 e.r.a., everything just sky rockets, even his walks to base on balls ratio, but i like the kid. you hear me say a lot about the

young starters. he has a good curveball, he is still working on the changeup, basically a two-pitch pitcher now, but with that curveball, you can move it in and out, get more tail on the fastball. he's good about elevating that thing, too. you just can't elevate it when it's 2-0, 3-1. you have to elevate when you're ahead in the count. another great young arm, and i think he's finding himself. like in the outing against milwaukee. it will build him mentally. if there's one thing that steve mccatty is, he is positive reinforcer. >> he needs to be more aggressive, he says. to bring that to pittsburgh. >> i was able to throw strikes and get ahead of the hitters, and just let them get themselves out. i didn't walk anybody, which helped me out a lot. and went after the guys. that's been helping me out, just being able to go after them and letting them do what they're going to do is grounds out, fly

out, and odds are in our favor, if you throw strikes, you'll get people out. so i took that mentality, and i'm going to do that with the pirates. >> paul maholm going for the pirates. they compare him to eric milton, and he certainly can do things. mississippi state boy in maholm. >> he can. when you watch him pitch, you wonder how anybody does anything to him. four of his last 8 outings, he's got a food fastball, 90 plus, -- good a good fastball, 90 plus. >> now, a chance for two in a row, ray, to get something going before they go back home. >> we just got to put some things together. it's just been so erratic, we have started to play better. >> maholm has never dee the nationals. hopefully that will -- has never defeated the nationals.

hopefully that will continue. >> the nationals look for the victory, the first at the series at pnc park. we'll see you right after the game. ♪ ♪

(tucci) count on the nation's fastest 3g network. at&t to give people great, fresh beer. oh, he insists upon quality. everything's got to be a+. over the years i've been in stores all over the country just checking on the freshness and the quality of sam adams. right from the beginning, here he is, the owner of the whole company, coming in, rolling up his sleeves and doing the work. we check every sam adams, make sure that all the beer's fresh. if the beer's beyond freshness we buy it back. when you taste sam adams at the peak of it's freshness, there's nothing better.

>> the following is a masn presentation. >> last night, mccutchen was the story. doubling his career home run total with three big hits. but today is a new day, and collin balester is poised to put the nats back in control. ♪

>> bob: paul maholm is on the poster, soon he will take oe nats and washington could me this a .500 road trip, but y have to win today and tomorrow against the pirates who are 5 against the nats this year. bob carpenter, rob dibble, s a warm, muggy day here in pittsburgh, and collin balester, we hope he brings the mound presence in milwaukee to the berg. >> rob: last couple of guys pitched down. this is not the same team tha balester faced in milwaukee. those were playoff contenders. these guys, most were pickep out of trade. so he needs to go out and d game plan, get ahead with the fastball, put guys away with  great curveball and changeup, and hopefully he'll be that successful. >> bob: the guys at the top the lineup are getting it done. >> rob: right now, you couldnt script it better. you get nyjer morgan in the

trade, it made cristian guzman better, and these guys have  great. look at the average, and cristian guzman with the 7 multiple litigation in a row, and ryan zim march, a little cold, -- >> bob: nyjer on base five times. he's 6 in the leak in hits. guzman, 4-9 in pittsburgh, 7 straight multi hit games, a ryan zimmerman, four hits, a homer, and he's hitting .400 e last week and a half. pa announcer: final boarding call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low.

( ding ) book now at southwest.com.

>> knacks baseball, by -- nationals baseball, brought to you by southwest airlines. partly cloudy skies, a thre rain at various times throughout the day. we had one batting practice shower, but really not bad in pittsburgh right now. as the nats batting .264 come

up, fourth in the league in tha department. austin kearns was to bat 7t and started right field. they scratched him with a right thumb contusion. we focus on willingham who is left, and josh, since july 1st , well, he gets on base on the road 1 out of 2 at-bats, and over the last 65 games, he is hitting .330. left hander paul maholm. he just turned 27 at the end  june. nats have seen him once this year. >> rob: they only had one rn 4 hits in 6 innings againstm in a 2-# pirate win. >> bob: major morgan takes one inside. -- nyjer morgan takes one inside. 76 degrees, now the sun's going to peek out a bit. clouds are moving around westn pennsylvania today. and here's morgan, 3 for 8 wih

two walks in the series. he's now 5th in the league with 37 multi hit games and hs 120 hits. way up in the top 6 in the national league now. >> rob: he's had quite a road trip. >> bob: breaking ball on  corner. 11 year veteran, the crew chief, mark wed under has the plat morgan slaps it to the second base men. delwyn young. one out. pretty good at home. >> rob: very good at home. the batting average difference, 40 points higher on the road. >> bob: somebody tell him he's in dc. next up is guzman and zimme.

cristian guzman, a remarkable street of hitting. 7 consecutive games with at least two hits, a rbi in each game, and over the last 8 games hitting over .450. that batting average is up ovr .300. he is 3 for 15 from thet side. bottom of the order is g very little right now. in fact, take away a couple of adam dunn swings in milwaukee, and willingham grand slams, i been sparse for the last five games. 2-1. guzman flares one to the right field line. it looks to be fair, and it i. and taking it, brandon moss o hop, and guzman is on his way another multi hit game. he doesn't get many of those.

>> rob: he watches it coming ou of the box. it would have been nice if he was sprinting out of the box. >> bob: brandon moss does have 8s on the year. here is ryan zimmerman. jim riggleman like denied the zimmerman he sees now to th likened the zimmerman he sees now to the one he saw on the hitting streak. rob, we noticed a couple of things. head still, body wait, althh ryan has had a active swing. in this series, 4-7 and a wal >> rob: he'll get a lot of changeup from maholm. he has to keep stepping tows the plate. when he was struggling, he s stepping away. >> bob: fastball in there. >> rob: what wee would call stepping in the bucket towards the third baseline. just trying to drive line drives up the middle, right center

>> bob: 14 for his last 35, and 5 of those home runs in 9 gam target in, they want to jam him. and he'll fight it off, right field line, that's going we foul. so over the 9 games, that's a batting mark of .400 on base average, even higher, shrugging percentage way up there, an runs, he's 5th in the league with 73 on the year. and ryan's 118 hits have him  the top 10. there was a time when he wa hot, number 1 or 2 in the lea on hits. so that glove up might have meant fastball up and in, or

throw over. varying signs from the catches will tell the pitcher to do that. >> rob: they you'vely have a thumb for the -- they usually have a thumb for the stepov >> bob: that's an easy double play. ryan zimmerman hits into  double play for the 17th time this year. nats gone in the 1st. ( shouting ) anybody want a beer? yeah. ( thud ) are you insured?

do you know when your beer is perfectly cold? or do you risk drinking a warm one? if you have the coors light cold-activated bottle, you're covered. because every bottle turns blue when your beer is as cold as the rockies. it's cold insurance, only from coors light. ( cheering, splash ) cold beer: that's our policy. frost-brewed coors light. the world's most refreshing beer. all the way to the home, you meant... we bring fiber optic all the way to the home. um... which gives you more bandwidth than cable. so you can upload faster. so it's like comparing a horse and buggy to a sports car. am i the, uh, horse? (announcer) it's a whole new internet. makes uploading as easy as downloading. because your internet's not fast unless it's two-way fast.

>> bob: it has the potential to be a beautiful day in pittsburgh, we'll see. the pirates are 7th in the league in hitting, 13th in runs, and 14th in homers, despite the fact that mccutchen hit 3 last night. derek jones is their first baseman. he led all three with 10 home runs in the month of july. hitting .310 over that time, 2-8 in the series. there's one. high fly ball. and the other two were laser-like line drives. >> rob: i think you could hit home run off that. >> bob: i don't know. is snoop here he goes again, we'll see -- >> bob: here he goes again. he is 6 out of 8. # homers, 6 rbis, 6 runs scored. and balester hang a breaking ball, but hits foul.

>> rob: i don't understand why our staff continues to throw  softer hitting guys in the lineup off speed stuff. you're helping them. you have to jam them, you h to throw them fastballs. we continuing to hang breaking balls. here, go ahead hit this. >> bob: that's a fall ball. gets a chopper off of the left. >> rob: i know you're a big proponent to throwing soft  hill guys. because the big guys are tryi to make home runs. when you throw off speed, it' easier for them to make conta. >> bob: he goes around. wil nieves makes the stop ad throws him out. a good start. >> rob: that's a little different, that's his out-pit. >> bob: you bury the breakig ball, it's a whole different thing. >> bob: balester good earlym a couple of different standpot

s. >> rob: it's hard to gauge. he's thrown 3 innings in one game, and 6 to another. last year, he was 22, differet pitcher. >> bob: fastball right in there. balester making his 18th career start. >> rob: last 12 starts in the minor league, he allowed two home runs, that means more to m than last year's stats. he continues to keep the ball down. >> bob: a two-hopper to off lil. belliard doesn't present the biggest target at first. jim riggleman says with nick johnson gone, belliard is his backup first baseman. the original lineup had willingham at first, ran belliard at second, but when kearns had 

>> i feel like some players wer relieved they weren't traded, and some players aren't plag well enough to be treated. i wonder what team will come  today and play? >> bob: nats have given up 16 runs on 23 hits first two gams of the series. >> rob: it's like some of t

young guys are falling into the i'm happy to be in the major leagues attitude. that's no why you're here. you're here to be if you can shul, you're here to execute - to be successful, you're here execute. >> bob: 2-2 to jones. big shift, balester works him u and in. pirates have 45 wins. weeks ago. -- until a couple of weeks ag. >> rob: they are sort of the race until they traded most of their lineups.

>> bob: pirates, there's the magic number, 3, they are good when they score 3 or more. balester gets two "ks accounts, and an one, two, three, bottom of the first. great with my money. probably because i've never had much. but now that i'm making more, it's time to be a little smarter about how i manage it.. with the calendar, i can schedule all my payments. and when funds are low, danger days help me stay out of the red. i can also transfer money with just a click and a drag. so maybe i'm better with money than i thought. introducing the virtual wallet from pnc, a high-definition, online view of your money. pnc. leading the way.

♪ i always feel like (announcer) it's right here, it's easy... ♪ somebody's watching me. ...it's the money you could be saving with geico. ♪ who's watching? ♪ tell me who's watching. (muffled music) (announcer) it's right here, it's easy... ♪ i always feel like somebody's watching me. ♪ it's the money you could be saving with geico. >> bob: get your red on, watch the nats and diamondbacks n

saturday. come out early, 15,000 adamn bobble heads waiting. so be one of the first 15,000 through the gate, and you'll take one hope. to purchase tickets: or st the nationals park box office. ironically, maybe he can finish them this year. we'll see next weekend. willingham leads off in the top of the 2nd. he's just getting the day off, adam. no injuries. he's been scuffling, and willingham takes a fastball b misses. josh on base four times her two hits, a walk and hit by a pitch. maholm throws one in there. adam dunn against maholm,

another reason he's probably  of the lineup. >> bob: it sound like a day nationals are in a stretch of 2 consecutive days playing. that's because of makeup game against st. louis a week an half ago, day off was taken away, next day off will be  week from tomorrow, but it's  second longest streak in consecutive games in franchise history. one year. expos had to play 31 games  row. out of play off the bat of willingham. 2-2. willie nelson would love josh willingham, "on the road agai 8 p the rbis on two swings, the grand slams in milwaukee. and that pitch upstairs. what a wonderful month of july josh willingham had.

go back into the core book an see what -- the score book an see what he was hitting on july july 1st. out of play, right side on the first of july, josh willingham was hitting .282 when the n were in florida. he had two hits and a walk t day, and hasn't looked back t rest of the month. 3-2. good at-bat, josh is aboard for the first time in the serie. second base runner against pal maholm who just walked his 41st batter of the year. struck out 81. he's right at that 2-1 breakdown, and he is elijah

dukes. he drives one to right field. stayed on the ball beautifull, and with delwyn young cheatin up the middle for the double play, elijah tucked one right i behind him. first and second, nobody out. >> rob: a great approach, something off speed from ma, up in the zone. maholm has a great running fastball, he has a good slide, a good curveball. too much of the zone, and t much up in the zone. >> bob: here ronnie belliard, 5 for his last 23.

not exactly the power you're looking for from the first bae side. off speed delivery, the even, 1-1. belliard will take one. it gets him ahead in the count. 2-1. >> rob: maholm's career during the day is 10-15 with a 5.2 e.r.a. maybe he doesn't like that early wakeup call. >> bob: belliard hits one to short. he'll have to hurry for two. and dukes, a big-time takeout

delwyn young. that was measure league right there, and runners at the corners with one out. >> rob: that's the way you do it, right there, elijah. bob said this is a big leak takeout to stop a double play. young can't even think about making a throw. >> bob: i guarantee you, the next time he takes a slow developing double play rela will not be sitting right on  bag. >> rob: that will be an a play for sure. we have guys on the team tht are afraid of contact, and s nice to see elijah who is n afraid. >> bob: and gone calls needs a rbi here. alberto has one in this series, grounds ball last night. he's 1-9 in this series, and 4 for his last 44.

off speed breaking ball, way ou ahead. rob, when you're in a funk lie he is, you're late for fastballs, and you try to get yourself started so early on th off speed stuff, you're way ahead. >> rob: agreed. maybe it's like a spot start where you don't know  emergency start. guy comes up sick and says you're starting, and he throws  gem. maybe gonzalez is going 3 for 4 >> bob: that's a little roller. they won't be able to turn two there. and gonzalez will get the job done with a rbi ground ball. he will advance the other runner. jim riggleman said that exat sing this morning. he says -- that exact thing t morning. he says maybe we need to find out if alberto is better when doesn't know he's starting, or is he better off knowing he there? lately it would be the former, not the latter.

he doesn't collect his 9th rbi, and some ways, that's better than a fly ball becae it advanced the other runner. >> rob: and you have to just think about what you're doip there. if you can get a ball up  middle, not going to cause a double play, you'll score a r. and in that case, he got luck because he hit it on the ground with belliard on first. soft enough for them to make th play at first. >> bob: if we gave out offee assists in baseball, dukes d get one for that run. he pre-the pirates from turning a double play ball. so wil nieves with a count of 1-1. he didn't get a lot of at-bats in july, 29, but had 10 hitn 9 games. job bard catching -- josh b catching almost 3 out of ever games. and against a left-hander, you

would think that wil nieves' game plan would be intact, because he is a right field shooter. >> rob: interesting to see. two out, ronnie belliard should be running on contact with mo in right field, if it goes that way. >> bob: and he's not playg deep. you can play the right fir shallow because it's just 320 down the line. moss has 8 outfield assists he's the more shallow of both guys on the right side, and milledge fairly deep in lef. wilwil nieves goes totally ou his zone. nats get a run on a ground bal

bygone stalls, and have the 10 -- by gonzalez, and have the 1-0 lead. each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com.

all the way to the home, you meant... we bring fiber optic all the way to the home. um... which gives you more bandwidth than cable. so you can upload faster. so it's like comparing a horse and buggy to a sports car. am i the, uh, horse? (announcer) it's a whole new internet. makes uploading as easy as downloading. because your internet's not fast unless it's two-way fast. >> nationals on top by a score of 1-0. one thing that balester told me he's been working on is controlling the tempo of the game. and here's more from coll that. >> you have to find that mie ground to where, you know,  feel comfortable, and you can work fast enough to where the hitters feel uncomfortable, bt not too fast where you're speeding up and not getting your

job done, so trying to find happy medium is tough, but once you get there, you have to y in the groove and things go for you. >> collin also said he wantedo continue where he left off in his last start where he threw strikes and didn't walk any guys? >> bob: that was a very goo outing at milwaukee. rob, is that something he didn't have a clue about last year that whole tempo thing? does that come -- >> rob: it's maturity, and moe reps you get, more starts, yo realize there are certain things that are more important than your stuff and what you carrid to the mound that day to keep the defense on their toes. not allowing hitters to just ge settled. you want to be ready to pitch and he's on the rubber ready  go. >> bob: the o-2 to ryan dou,

the pirate catcher. >> rob: your defense will appreciate it, especially in a day game where it's e muggy out here. >> bob: pirates at home this year, 28-19. nats on the road, 12-39. breaking ball. that will get him on a pop- second base side. alberto gonzalez, went backhand on that ball. and here at the top, collin balester has retired his fit four batters: clemente bridge in -- -- roberto clemente bridge i the backyard. it wouldn't be sunday without d into. here is delwyn young, 1-6

series, and he's hitting .311, he did play some infield, but the pirates now want him to on second base after freddy sanchez departed. 0-2. he got jammed. zimmerman charges. cuts it off. belliard did stay on. ronnie wasn't on the bag for more than an instant, and zimmerman was pointing off  the bag. not a good throw by ryan. >> rob: nope. let's see how ryan does on e stretch. a little bit off the bag. but we'll take it. >> bob: yeah, we're not talking adam dunn on derrek lee in s of height. i think the nats got a br. john russell didn't argue. i wonder if the manager

sometimes reads the body language ever his first be coach, because the first bae coach has the best view of anybody. now another ball in the infd foregone stalls. balester doesn't need the outfielders, he's like a kingn the court. our 737s fly to over 65 cities across the country every day.

pa announcer: final boarding call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com. >> bob: it's a sunday in pittsburgh, it will be a sunday

in the capitol, you can brig everybody out for a family  pack. $14, with each ticket, hot dog, non-alcoholic drink and chi minimum two tickets per purchase. get off the metro, walk i the center field gates and hae a great time at the ballpark with your family every sunday. at least when we're in town. here is balester, 1-3 with a  this year. 4 for 18 career. balester got that base hit up the middle in milwaukee after sacrificeing take on a ball up and in. 3-0. maholm wouldn't walk balester to start the 3rd, would he? >> rob: he might. not what you want to do.

>> bob: how about that? a 4-pitch walk to the pitcher. walk number two by maholm and the previous leadoff man he walked came owner to score. nyjer morgan1?owo j

>> bob: nations baseball, brought to you -- nationals baseball, brought to you by southwest airlines. and by: >> bob: here it is, pittsburg, pa.

forming the ohio downstream from the ballpark, and we go to e bottom of the 3ed. brandon monday, ronnie cedeno - brandon moss, ronnie cedeno. and paul maholm. balester back to work. a beautiful first pitch fastbl tailing away from moss. 2 for 4 in this series, and hitting .254. balester's pitch to strike rati is remarkable so far, 26 pitches, 22 of them strikes. >> rob: wow. with this line up, it's not good hitting lineup. >> bob: a breaking ball hito a bad spot. nobody was playing there. 0-2 breaking ball nats --

>> rob: a bad 0-2 pitch. catcher wants it down low, it's up high, even though it's a from him. able to get the better part of the bat on it, right up the middle. >> bob: the information systems power house with our h track, and ronnie cedeno is next. he has -- runner going, it's a hit-and-run. that was a total protect th runner type swing on a pitch that most batters would tak a ball. so john russell getting frisky here. >> rob: good job by ced, protecting the runner, even though it's an awful pitch n the zone. normally wouldn't want tog at that, but when you have  make contact, good job by cedeno. >> bob: moss is 0-3 in stea, so he's not likely to steal second base. if you don't take that swin,

and he gets thrown out withe pitcher coming up next, the inning could end in about f or six pitches. now the count's 1-1. that ball hit a mile, and the pirates lead 2-1. cedeno's first home run as a member of the pirates. and in seattle, he hit five. >> rob: the sinker that doesn't sink, down and in on a righty, it's not a good place to miss. cedeno just quickly side st,

gets the hand through there. >> bob: pirates one of the lightest hitting teams in baseball, have out powered the nats in this series. >> rob: because you can't underestimate any major league hitter. i don't care if it's mo cedeno, or, i'm not going to start on other clubs. they are hungry, they are attacking with the bats. you still have to make the pitches. >> bob: they have out homed t nats 5-1 -- outhomered the nats in this series, 5-1. balester giving up his third home run of the year. >> rob: balester is the had ath player to put -- 45th player

to put on a nationals unifom and play for us. >> bob: well, five more, that will be two complete roster didn't you say the pirates over the last couple of years have traded away nearly an entire 40-man roster? >> rob: just in the last 14 months, 15 pitchers. >> bob: interesting story in th pittsburgh paper by a drafting, about drafting tall pitcher >> rob: the reds used to do that. >> bob: they only drafted like two guys under 6'3" the last w years. milledge out to willingha. that's the second out.

part me. milledge coming up. one thing that mccutchen can't do now is thinking about home runs. he struck out, night out. >> rob: that's not his game. you have three home runs in game, but this -- >> bob: and here's milledge, first pitch breaking ball to him. lastings is 3 for 9. coming back to the big leagues on friday. 4 for 10 now. he skoshes that ball. -- the scorches that ball. and nyjer recovered quickly. not sure milledge was running full speed out of the battes box. he could have challenged fo second base with two outs. is he running hard? >> pretty much.

>> bob: no fault there. >> rob: i think he didn't thik it got far enough away from nyjer to make the attempt. >> bob: arrest monday began does have 11 assists this year. >> bob: you saw the fastball location up in the zone, milledge did a great job fighting it off for a singl

runner goes, off speed pitch. nieves a great throw, and the ball waiting for milledge he got to second base. wil nieves, the for 35, gunnig outrun centers, and he threa pea down to second base. 

>> bob: pirates have the lead now with a long ball frome cedeno, 2-1 into the 4th inning. ryan zimmerman could chan in a hurry.

he had a good game last night, jammed for a hit. not jammed for a real hard base hit. and lastings milledge would watch the next one go by hi >> rob: this is a line shot. it gets past milledge. home run later in the game, t >> bob: yeah. maholm got ahead, and then ra into a 6-3 double play. every time i see ryan square around to bunt, in 2006, he bunted on many occasions for base hits. he's one of the best on the tm >> rob: sometimes you want  a table setter. keep that third baseman on. sometimes you have to lay at

down. >> bob: i would like to see do that when he is struggling. sometimes the way he's going now, you almost hate to see h give a swing away. sometimes it depends on who hitting behind him. today it's not dunn. 2-1. he rips one to left. that's just as good as the bunt. and ryan zimmerman is now 5t of 9 in the series, and with more, here is debbi. >> debbi: i asked ryan what  the key for him getting himself into a good position in such  consistent basis. >> just getting ready early. i have a plan when you go out hopefully when it happens, you don't miss the pitch. sometimes you just don't get  pitch in the league, and if yu miss it, you can be in trou >> debbi, and he has been able to stay off the borderline pitches. >> bob: we've none seen him strike out much during the

streak. it's a breaking ball that almt hit josh willingham. willingham walked and scored first time. suddenly, overcast with elijah dukes. a real nice at-bat coming u next. mixed bag as far as weather today, partly cloudy chance o scattered storms off and on all day. this ballpark breathes a little better than three rivers stadium did. that was a completely encd double deck stadium. >> rob: cookie cutter.

>> bob: just behind first base, and when it got hot in ther the air had nowhere to go. >> rob: veterans, three rivers and riverfront look like the same guy, or architect. >> bob: st. louis was in that mode as well. they did replace their unofficial surface at one p put in real grass. that helped. these ball parks, these new ones, open in the outfield, yu have more of a wide open ballpark feel to them. and this is one of the best. just need more folks to come out. willingham takes it inside. ball 3. >> rob: pretty good pitch. >> bob: josh, 54 strikeouts, 37 walks after he took that base o balls first time up. >> rob: the pitch track, gog right through the square on t

plate. >> bob: you don't have to go  the stretch before you throw. as long as you're off the rubber. >> rob: absolutely. that was a quick slow. check this out right here. whoa! i better get back. nice job by ryan. >> bob: looking right at the umpire. >> rob: keeping him honest. >> bob: willingham bounces to third. knocked down by laroche. and delwyn young had another runner coming after him. leading into our coors light freeze cam. the world's most refreshing beer. look at that. >> rob: that's how you do it kids. take them out of the pl, elijah dukes right there, b. ride over the bag, and delwyn has no run at first. >> bob: kept the nats out o double play. here's elijah. they pl him the same as fir

time up with young cheating up the middle, and dukes stayed on the ball and hit it to the le of the second baseman. his left.ó he hits this one breaking bat. it'souled and barlof#ú o& . >> he just gets  the bat, a changeup, top heavy >> bob: e kuiwand perry hill were looking at the ball and never saw the bat un last moment.000

ki undrthe [eilig dukes off the end of the bat. first base side. jones, he over sao t and recovered to make th. i know this always happens with the ball, forbaseman always seemed to get caught over running that box. it's going to come back. >> rob: plus the sky and th sun's going in and out, they ar not wearing glasses because it was behind the clouds a minute ago. nice recovery by jones. >> bob: here's ronnie belliard with two outs.

now things are brightening up again. >> rob: ronnie last couple of years, 11 home runs for the nationals, 11 in '07. he still has a quick bat. >> bob: two home runs this year and 127 at-bats. 296 last year, 511 the year before that.

breaking ball has him out ahe belliard hit 35 doubles in '07, 30 plus for the 7th time in years: 22 last year. runner is picked off. and willingham is out. interesting. nats are gone in the top of tc it4th. ery day. pa announcer: final boarding call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down.

grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com. now that college is a few years behind me, it seems i've got three times the bills i used to. and they're getting in the way of things i'd like to do. with the money bar, i can move my money around instantly, so when there's more bills than usual, it's no problem. and i use the wish list to put any extra money aside for anything i want. being in control of my money feels good. introducing the virtual wallet from pnc,

a high-definition, online view of your money. pnc. leading the way. first 10,000 fans through the gates get that shirt with list, you'll be dying to read the back. nats and marlins at 7:05. visit nationals dot-com, or s -- nationals.com, or stop by th window at the ballpark. the nats get josh johnston tuesday night. washington has not beaten them once this year. so they need to do something here today and tomorrow, bee

you're going home to face a star. one of the best pitchers in league right now. balester goes 2-0. i believe for the first tim today on any hitter. jones was at the plate when milledge was caught stealing. 3-0. p balester's first walk of the day in front of the catcher cleanup man, ryan doumit. 

touch pitch, breaking ball fo strike. mccatty is watching his pitcher carefully. >> bob: doumit at gonzalez, guzman turns it, the 4-6-3. gonzalez didn't give guzman a

good relay. the nats turn their first d play today. >> rob: plenty of time right here, this ball is hit ve hard. gets guzman way off second . he has to recover here. comes across the bag. just gets going. >> bob: bases empty, two outs, and here is delwyn young. >> bob: popped him up.

out behind short. and josh willingham the catch after the call belliard will step back to the plate whene come back. @x@0@p@0@6p)@)@)p,

>> bob: back here at pnc park pittsburgh, and the pirates lea 2-1 on the cedeno home run. the giant are pitching grea usual. lyons couple leads the league 

strikeouts, couple of shoutout for him. matt holliday hit two so low homers for st. louis. he has been amazing. and josh beckett, first man  make it to 13 games, a lucky number at this point. let's see how long it takes t get beyond. there's belliard, he was at plate when josh willingham surprised us by getting thrn out trying to steal, and bor up the middle for delwyn yo nationals have only managed three singles off maholm, and now this year, maholm in 10 innings has given washington on run on 7 hits. here's alberto gonzales who

bounced a grounder in front of the shortstop last time. 2-0. >> rob: give a how the shout ou to a command -- a shout out to some nationals fans, ken and maria are here from dc. >> bob: i notice you didn't get lost today. >> rob: i have to give credo debbi taylor. she helped me leave bread crumb on the way home. >> bob: this might be the o downtown with no pigeons them. >> rob: they followed me al way back. >> bob: my favorite thing is the guy on 6th street over there who sells pizza slices for $2 just grab one on the way backo the hotel, and there's your late-night snack. >> rob: i like the guy on the

bridge. >> bob: called out on as"#@

our 737s fly to over 65 cities across the country every day. pa announcer: final boarding call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph...

almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com. i've never been all that great with my money. probably because i've never had much. but now that i'm making more, it's time to be a little smarter about how i manage it.. with the calendar, i can schedule all my payments. and when funds are low, danger days help me stay out of the red. i can also transfer money with just a click and a drag. so maybe i'm better with money than i thought. introducing the virtual wallet from pnc, a high-definition, online view of your money. pnc. leading the way.

more bars in more places. at&t. the best coverage worldwide. for back to school, get the pantech matrix for $29.99 after mail-in rebate. >> bob: no contest. >> humiliated again.

balester leads off in the top o the 6th. ed his first time off, raced in a double play ball. bouncer, right side. forces jones to back up to the pitcher. and barely out at first. offline, maholm had to reach back and almost allowed balesr to get to the bag at the same time. >> rob: good play by jones, tough speed. maholm just gets that right f in before balester hits the bag >> bob: that looks like a tie from that age gel. >> you normally -- from that angle. >> bob: he did not lead himo the bag with that throw. >> rob: he did not. >> bob: and here's nyjer morgan

with one out: a bunt off the gear of the catcher. >> rob: that last play, maholm should be going down the li way over there and up the line but he wasn't, he made a straight v-line right to the base, and that's dangerous. you don't want pitchers doi that. that's some of the stuff th work on in spring, going about three quarter of the way don the line, and run up in fro the runner. that way, you get a better thw from the first base to the ba. he gets over to the bag, which is very dangerous, and that

him up, and he almost gets stepped on. >> bob: 2-2 to nyjer morgan. >> do it one more time. he should be reigning way over there, he doesn't, he goes straight across. he almost gets stepped on. would have blown out the achilles, whatever. got to listen to your coachg staff when they try to teach  stuff. into balester hustling all the way. they've been few and far between today for the nats, just the singles and two walks. morgan hit by that one. he's aboard. he hasn't had too many stolen base opportunities in the ss .

i'm almost every time he's been on first, there's's been somebody ahead of him. he did get picked off by ross ollendofer on friday night. there's no left-handed batt the way of doumit who is 3-14 against base runners. al on dover played with morgan, he knows he's going to go on almost any pitch. and he caught him leaning. we've already seen maholm has a good move to first. this would be a tough steal for nyjer. >> bob: fastball tails up and away. hopefully, a distraction fact to, and maybe guzman, 1-2, benefits from that. christian a half stuff from being 2-2. cedeno robbed him of a hit ba

in the 3rd.  breaking ball. >> i already told you, bob, w maholm is when he goes more tn 6 innings. he's 6-2 with a 2 e.r.a. when you get him out of there before the 6th, 0-33 wi2 -- 0-3 with a 12 e.r.a. i don't think it will get easr if they let him go into the 7th inning. >> bob: morgan is picked off again. he's going to beat it thoug

did they call him out? he beat the throw, and here comes jim riggleman. >> he's been going that, going back. >> bob: morgan beat the throw. did he stay on the bag? >> here's the replay of that. great jump, he just takes off. yeah. he's way off the bag. >> bob: watch the foot. >> the second baseman, he knocks him off the bag. >> bob: he did. nyjer has to find a way to t that slide a little earlier because he keeps going by t bag. and rob drake took a good, log look. and according to the re got it right. >> i think the contact is incidental. >> bob: this is being prolod by jim riggleman.

>> trying to catch the bag  the back of your leg is not the easiest thing to do. watch nyjer, watch the play young. >> bob: he's safe. >> he's safe, but young, trying to make the tag. forces his foot off the bag. great replay, guys. >> bob: some of the same rules that applied for catchers ay for infielders, if they got guts to tangle with the base runner. >> rob: true. hard to argue when his leg  between you and the bag. >> bob: if he takes his hands and shoves you off the bag, then that's not going to work. but that was just, as rob sai inches accidental contact. drake got it right. >> rob: he got it right. and --

>> bob: guzman is gone, so are the nats.  very little offense today. morgan was trying to make something happen. 

>> rob: collin balester but,  mistake to cedeno. you see the great breaking ba. to get a ground ball double

play. balester having a nice day. hopefully, he can continue to keep the nationals in the ballgame, until they can far in some runs. >> bob: collin balester, 67th pitch of the day, to the opposing pitcher, and number 68 and count of 1-1. not much on the pirates box score, except for the swing b cedeno. gonzalez throws out maholm, and balester has retired 7 hitters in a row, accounting for 8  top of the er, and andrew mccutchen. pittsburgh juries has hits in e inning -- just has hits in one inning. >> rob: it's the bottom of the

order that did it, mossand  home úúrúby cedeno.>> b there. that nyjer morgan play on sd base, there is one way a bae runner can stop that. %from mccutchen.rst, oç>> e garrett mock goes tomorrow, a night game, 7:00, on masn 2. josh johnston against marti tuesday night, and diamondbacs are in for the weekend befoe the nationals depart again fo atlanta and cincinnati. nats xtra, 30 minutes prior t

every game right here on masn. masn hd, masn 2, you name it. steve mccatty coming out. wil nieves visited the mound, and looked into the dugout. as shawn burnett gets ready and shawn has not appeared in the series, and the interesting thing might be the reaction o the crowd after some of the things he had to say about the pirates on friday. he was quoted there as calling them the laughing stock of baseball for trading all their players away. 

lastings milledge the hitter. mccutchen, a definitely knit running threat, 9 for 9 in stolen bases. >> rob: very nice day for coln . >> bob: first pitch breaking ball, and mccutchen looked a little uncertain. he hasn't seen balester before from that first base angle. what are some of the things a right-hander does, rob, to slow down a base runner. >> rob: change the time to  plate. your look to first, sometimes you hold and hold and hold,p off. sometimes you just get it