health care or to sign up for welfare programs, though that often does happen. and of course, as i have already pointed out, the vast majority of immigrants, including those hear without health insurance, work. rather, the problems are an unavoidable consequence of allowing in immigrants who work but have very little education, and often the and their-are uninsured and use medicare. if we want to reduce the insured population and avoid large costs for taxpayers in the healthcare system, we need to enforce immigration laws and reduce illegal immigrants in the country, and on legal immigration, moving forward, in the future, we would need to allow in many fewer immigrants who have little education. barring those two changes, i immigration will continue to have a very large impact on our

healthcare system, a lots of folks who need medicaid with cascading series of wednesdays for the system. thank you. >> jim. >> i think it's evidence from steve has talk that immigration will affect and be affected by the health reform legislation being crafted in the house and the senate, with 12 to 15 million uninsured immigrants, this was discussed. their mere presence means that every provision of the legislation that is designed to extend health coverage to those without insurance will potential ly expand, as steve highlighted. the taxpayers' cost, by the billions if not tens of billions or even more, and many immigrant households have children who are automatically eligible for

government health care of various sorts. even if their parents are here illegally. bear in mind, government agencies and nonprofits often only look at things like income levels and other similar qualifiers when they're enrolling new beneficiaries in public programs like medicaid and schip. they often overlook one's immigrant status, even though that could qualify someone from program participation. well, today i will focus my remarks on the main immigration implications of the house and senate -- the senate help committee bills. i will also make a culp of of -- couple of observations in the senate finance legislation, and it's still being negotiated, and i will base my comments on the

outline of health reform put out just a few weeks back. well, health refolk legislation, particularly hr-3200, contains a number of provisions that open the door to taxpayer funding of immigrants health care. that's for illegal aliens, for legal aliens, who are supposed to rely on their sponsor for financial assistance during their first five years in the country, and for certain immigrants who sponsor immigrants. first, let's look at the tax fair funded premium subsidy. hr3200's title 2 of division a relates to coverage. this section -- or title of the bill creates a government agency to regulate health insurance. individuals and employers will have to go there through its exchange arm for

government-approved health insurance that will run the public option and will operate a graduated subsidy program. section 242-a defines who is eligible for the premium subsidy, and how many credits that they can receive to determine the amount of that premium subsidy. the bill apparently qualifies all lawful permanent residents, regardless of their sponsors are pledged responsibility, or the required five-year bar for most means tested programs. section 242-d excludes receipt of these premium subsidy payments from counting as welfare. taxpayers subsidize households earning 400% of the poverty level. so section 242 generously

subsidizes many people, including the foreign-born, well into the middle class. on the house bill that would be $88,000 income a year for a family of four. the money doesn't count as welfare payment, as i mentioned, which might potentially risk deportation as a public charge or jeopardize their ability to sponsor other immigrants. and the credits are available to sponsored legal immigrants and foreign-born immigrant sponsors themselves. the senate finance outline indicates that bill wl subsidize insurance costs up to three times the poverty income level. let me talk briefly about public charge doctrines, which i have mentioned a couple of times. public charts doctrine is a long-standing u.s. policy dating

to colonial times and has been vigorously part of our immigration policy throughout our history. it's supposed to protect the country from importing people who become a burden on society would-be immigrants are dedefined visas on public charge ground. they have too little income or certain other factors that would cause to us not give them a visa, and this goes on continually. but very few immigrants anymore are deported for the reason of being public charges. so, it's pretty much, once here, you're safe. well, the 1996 welfare and immigration reforms strengthened public charge doctrine somewhat. immigrant sponsors now must sign a legally enforceable affidavit of support.

they must have earnings at least 125% of the federal poverty level, and their household income is deemed available to the immigrant who is applying for federal mean-testes programs. because hr3200's provisions suspend some of welfare reforms requirements it weakens the dock christian. sponsors of immigrants and immigrants themselves can collect taxpayer dollars for health coverage when immigration policy would require they be more self-reliant. section 242 of the bill states: illegal aliens are excluded from receiving federal payments under the affordable credits premium subsidy, but there's nothing in the bill requiring screening of

affordable credit recipients, such as screening them through the save system. congressman dean heller offed an amendment to correct that but it was defeated along party lines. senate legislation omits the same eligibility verification requirements that would ensure only lawful immigrants and u.s. citizen benefit under these programs. now let's turn to medicaid and schip provisions. title 7 under division b of the house bill hr3200 expands medicaid illegibility to those earning a third above the poverty level. the minimum income which is required of immigrant sponsors, which i mentioned is 1-75% of the poverty level, that falls

below the sponsor's eligible for taxpayer-funded health care for the poor, at 1 1/3%. the health care bell expands eligibility to 50% above the official poverty rate. that leaves an even larger gap for immigrant sponsors who are on medicaid to still sponsor and bring in additional visa holders. this aspect of the legislation has an undermining effect on opublic charge doctrine. section 1702 of hr3200 explicitly prohibits states which administer method okayed and schip from making further determinations about new medicaid enrollees' elibility. one such provision requires states to presume someone's

eligibility. in other words, this is a system of kind of enroll first and don't ask questions later. in the energy and commerce mark up, congress nathan dill offered an amendment to change this. it was apply the same verification standards and use the same existing verification system that is in the medicaid statute. this taxpayer protection amendment lost on a largely party-line vote by a single vote. senate legislation, omits any verification requirements of one's eligibility. finally, let's look at the

mandate exemption. the finance committee outlined, like the help and he house byes, mandates that individuals must carry health insurance or face a fine. the finance outline says that illegal aliens will be exempt from the individual mandate. well, that's interesting but it sets up a system where you have americans and legal immigrants who have to have coverage or else pay a fine, but illegal aliens would escape both the mandate and any fine for being uninsured. it appears that this sets up for illegal aliens aliens aliens toe riders. they would receive taxpayer funded services at hospitals required with serving medical emergencies, yet illegal aliens

would be free from any responsibility or sanction that other people would bear. so, to conclude, essentially these bills expand government health coverage and taxpayer-funded sub dis for government controlled private insurance and the public option. they make it easy to enroll new people in government-run health care problems which amounts to built-in ignorance about characteristics which would be disqualifying, such as being here on a temporary visa or still under the sponsorship requirements or being here ill legal lee. -- illegally. the bills make no provision for ensuring that only lawful u.s. residents and u.s. citizens benefit from these help programs inch short, the health reform plans that are on the table will create new incentives, at least

marginally, for illegal immigration. they will reward illegal aliens by giving them health care without cost, and the public >> thank you, very much. as we noted here in the previous comments, immigration in the u.s. is primarily indisproportinally lower skill immigration, with-1/3 of all immigrants looking a high school degree, and among illegals, perhaps 55% lacking a shoal degree. if you believe that in the united states a person who lacks a high school degree pays more in taxes than they receive in government benefits, then you would believe that this system is good for the u.s. taxpayer. on the other hand, if you believe that shrub who -- someone who lacks a high school

degree possibly receives a smidgen more than the pay in tacks, the enemy is very costly to the u.s. taxpayer. another aspect is since immigrants, both legal and illegal, are disproportionately less educated. they're reducing the average education level of the u.s. work force. if you believe that reducing the education level of a u.s. work force is good for an economy, then you believe that the current legal and illegal immigration system are good for the u.s. economy. if you have an a believe that hey are a higher education level is good for the country,. in the united states today, our country spends over $700 billions on means, tested

welfare assistance. that is cash, food, housing, medical care for low-income people. these are programmed such as medicaid, public housing, temporary assistance to needy families. of that roughly $100 billion plus goes to lower skill immigrants. they are a substantial and significant portion of the u.s. welfare system. the way that i would characterize our current immigration system, both in its permissive entry of illegals as well as the high level of very low-skill immigrants that come in through the legal immigration system it's at if it's a transnational outvive. spending 5% of gpd on welfare is not sufficient. we need to bring more people in the united states so take enroll in the system. the bottom line is the u.s. has

very generous system or support for less advantaged individual, and it would be very difficult to provide that level of support to essentially an a unlimited inflow of low-skill voids from the third world, but that is what our immigration system currently does. if we were to look at the current healthcare reform education, this takes an unprecedented step in opening up the u.s. welfare system to illegal immigrants. under the current law, really forever, we have had a system of identity checks that largely prevent adult illegal immigrants from getting on to these means tested welfare programs. you have to be able to stap shade that you're in the country legally and you have to substantiate, that you have been here over the time limits for eligibility. the healthcare reform legislation turns that on its back and tramples it into the

dust. they say we will not verify, we will not check, we have a complete open door for every illegal immigrant, current and the future to enroll and receive benefits. we will not check them at the door, and we will not check them once they receive the benefits. i say if you're going to do that with respect to health care, why would you not also establish the same precedent with respect to food stamps and public housing and earned income tax credit. and i believe that's the direction congress wants to good to aa lou all welfare benefits to be fully available to all illegal immigrants. this seems to me to not only set up a substantial cost, the cost of providing medical insurance to all of the current uninsured illegals i believe is to the tune -- close to $200 billion over the next

decade. but that is clearly would have a magnet effect, i believe, of drawing even more illegals into the u.s. and the united states. we will have a precedent of saying, come into the u.s., you get free medical care, we will not check who you are or whether you're here lawfully. this would create a further precedent of what i call medical tourism. what would happens that someone could enter the u.s. either eelly in the future or as a tourist who hat a significant medical condition that requires health care. they could then declare themselves to be eligible for these programs, enroll in this public option, begin to receive medical care without ever being checked as to whether or not they under the united states lawfully or eligible for these programs. i believe under this legislation we will draw the seriously ill from all over the world to begin to come here to receive free

medical treatment, and once you hook these individuals up to the dialysis machine or whatever it is, we're very unlikely as a society to pull the plug and say, get out of here. it is absolutely mind-boggling pre precedent that is being established here. if we look overall at the cost of means-tested welfare, aid that it targeted to low are income people, medicaid, public housing, food stamps and so forth. what we find that is over the next decade, the united states will spend $1.5 trillion on means-tested welfare for lower skill immigrants, those with a high school degree or less. $1.5 trillion. a half of that, or around $750 billion over the next dead

okayed, will by for medical care for lower skilled immigrants, primarily through the medicaid program. this is a massive expenditure at a time when the united states is already going bankrupt as a nation. now, the healthcare reform that is pending in the congress would add additional costs on to that, not only by making the illegals eligible for free medical care but also by extending medical care to all of the legal immigrants who currently do not have it. steve's numbers here are very good, showing that a third of the uninsured are immigrants, but i would say that if you looked at the lower income uninsured, which is where the core of the expenditure will be, that number is probably significantly higher, perhaps as much as 50% of the lower income uninsured are in fact immigrants, both legal and illegal. we are about to, i believe, go

into the system of nationalizing u.s. health care, creating a government monopoly healthcare system, primarily or at least substantially to -- in order to provide health coverage to immigrants. in addition to the healthcare reform, we have the fantastic costs associated with the pending amnesty. one of the things we know about illegal immigrants is that very few of them are elderly. if you are illegal immigrant, you come here during working age, and either you're going to find some way to become legal or go back home by the time you are of retirement age. one of the clear things any amnesty bill or earned citizenship bill does is that at the point of passage, it immediately takes all of the current illegal immigrants and makes them potentially eligible for social security and

medicare. an astonishing cost, all of which is hidden in the normal budgetary calculations which only calculate the cost of am is in city over, say, ten-year period. but you're going to put all of these individuals, perhaps as many as 12 million individuals, into the social security and medicare system. now, the cost of that, once they hit retirement age, which will omuir two decades would be around $2.5 trillion. out of that 1 drill -- 1 drill would be for medicaid alone. so not only are re spending enormous scores on the current system, but with healthcare reform we will pile more money on top of that, and if we add amnesty on top of that we well

be adding another trillion dollars, 2.35 trillion if you count social ecurity in as well. the united states of america, in my mind, is now going bankrupt. we are beginning to look like argentina or something like that in terms of the level of public debt we are racking up here. a substantial portion of this national debt is due to the fact that we are bringing in very low-skilled voids, through both legal and illegal immigration, providing them with a vast array of government services they do not pay for, and basically piling up the debt on our children in order to pay for those services. thank you very much. >> thank you-robert. steve, did you have a question? >> i just have a quick point of clarification for robert and jim, who have studied the legislation itself. what you're saying is in effect is that they could have, if they had the public option or some new government program, whatever that is, they could have created

a situation where you verify whether or not the person is eligible. some legal immigrants are not eligible because they haven't been here long enough. and illegals, their childrenning. but they chose explicitly to make them eligible in the sense they took out the enforcement. but they also said that they weren't supposed to get it. so it's kind of like, -- would analogy be a speed limit on a highway and pronouncement that police will never patrol that highway? is that what we have done in this legislation? >> it's difficult to know the motivations for omitting the verification provisions. i think the one provision that is in there that i mentioned that excludes eligibility but

doesn't require checking it, it's kind of like the highway marker that you mentioned, but it's also, i guess, similar to have -- have you ever seen a no trespassing sign in the middle of the woods and there's no fence, there's no farmer with a shotgun or whatever? so, it's just there. and there's no enforcement whatsoever. >> so shouldn't -- i'm sorry. >> i would say the motivation is clear. it couldn't happen but be clearer. this is such an unprecedented step to basically say you are not eligible but we will not check, wink, wink, nod, nod. we have never done that. and, gee, i wonder why that provision is in there, especially since on two occasions they delegate my -- deliberately voted down

amendments that say, why don't you apply the traditional checks -- these are on over 71 different federal welfare programs, you use this check to determine whether a person is eligible. that's what you do not only just a check for illegals, it's also a check for employment verification. so if you say you come in and you have income of x, well, the government determines whether your income is in fact that low, or whether you under fact eligible. this bill says, no, we ain't checking nothing, okay? you come in, at it is self-proclaimed. if you proclaim you're eligible, we're going to let you in, and if you proclaim you're a u.s. citizen or that you're otherwise eligible, glory and we will never check you. there's only one reason for doing that. and it's because they deliberately intend, all illegals immigrants, both current and future to receive

free medical care at the expense of the u.s. taxpayers. >> thank you. we will take questions from the audience now. yes, ma'am? >> i'm with the ns news. when you referred, mr. rector, to the $1.5 trillion of lower skill immigrants are you talking about all -- illegal and legal? >> that's all. it would be higher if you granted amnesty to the illegals, but under the current system, recognizing that lower-skill immigrants take about 15% of total means-tested aid, cash, food, housing, medical care, that would be at least 1.5 trillion. >> what's the -- >> it's basically those with a high school degree or less. probably the majority of that is

for those that are currently legal. >> thank you. yes, sir. speak up and identify yourself. >> vern from rcp news. two questions. did you find anything -- any difference between illegal immigrants and legal immigrants in terms of their paying back these emergency services? you said illegal immigrants tend to not pay and would that change if they were legalized, and the second question for mr. edwards, have you looked at the agricultural visa workers and the provision and how healthcare reform might affect that segment of the possible population, guest workers? >> well, the statistics i gave are what taxpayers pay. uninsured people pay for -- they go to the doctor and they just

don't pay for most of us and the total sum of what taxpayers pay is 4 billion, and some might be going to illegal. i don't think we have good body of research showing that legal immigrants are more likely to pay for services -- i don't know of any that says that when they're uninsured. what we do know is that legal immigrants who are unskilled tendotome more likely to have health insurance than illegals that are unskilled, but the big difference seems to be medicaid. ... if your concern was that they did not have insurance and now they do -- that is positive. it might improve their health care outcomes. if your concern is the taxpayer, that is bad. being on medicaid is much more

expensive than being uninsured. >> one of the bills -- i believe it is the senate bill, but i may be mistaken. states that offer a permanent residence for u.s. citizens, it may be the house bill -- i may have been reversed. it is a permanent immigrant visa holder. holder. the other says that it includes pretty much anybody who's here under color of law, which includes everybody who's legally here on temporary protected status, nonimmigrant visas and so forth. so one -- you know, one of the bills does contemplate separating and not -- and again, not checking and verifying that

nonimmigrant visa holders, temporary visa holders would not qualify. whereas, the other does say anybody who's here legally even temporarily. >> and that would include foreign students as well as farm workers, illegal aliens given temporary status, all kinds of people. and there's actually millions of immigrants here that we describe as immigrants but are not green card holders and are not illegal aliens but they're here temporarily. next question. yes, sir. yeah. >> in reading the memorandum, the second bullet point says immigrants account for 21 -- 27% of those of the health insurance and at the bottom it says legal immigrants account for 27% and the one before says 64% of illegal immigrants were uninsured. could you explain that? >> yeah, there's two different

statistics. what fraction of immigrants don't have health insurance? the other is, we're trying to measure their impact on the system. if there are only 10 immigrants in the united states, just 10 people, and half didn't have insurance, they would be a trivial fraction. one statistic is how many people of immigrants are uninsured. the other is, what fraction of the total they comprise, okay? so in the case of immigrants and their children, the two statistics are somewhat close but the point is about 33% of all immigrants, just immigrants now, not their kids, 33% don't have health insurance. and they comprise 27% of all people without health insurance. do you see the difference? a third don't have it and they make up a fourth of the total so there's two different measures that are important to know. you can't just know one without really thinking about the other. and that's why the two statistics -- maybe we could say it a little clearer here, you know, make it clear talking about total versus what fraction

don't have it but that's how it works. >> next question, yes, sir. >> first, a comment. >> speak up, please. >> a comment for mr. rector as well as -- first of all, i enjoyed your importation of poverty, a book of charts which is a work of immigration on this country. second of all, when you talked about the impact of amnesty, you talked it would cost an outyear cost 2 1/2 trillion roughly for impact on social security, medicare, et cetera. but in your analysis of the haggle-martinez bill you estimated that in addition to the legalization of the, you know, 12 to 20 million, that there would be at least over 60 million people who would come into this country would be sponsored through chain migration and family unification. is that amount included in the outyears or not? >> no. the 2 1/2 trillion would simply be the cost of providing earned

citizenship to the current illegal population. the bill last time around didn't have those massive expansions in legal immigration which the bill three years ago did have, which would impose even greater costs. the bottom line to understand this is to recognize that the u.s. has a very large and robust welfare system. we don't really recognize that because it's over 71 different programs. and in order to calculate the cost of those programs you have to go through a 1300-page budget appendix and count them all up. social security and medicare appear on two lines in every budget item. in order to find the cost of aiding poor people, you have to go really and really dig, but when you add all those things together, the cost of aiding the poor, of which medical care is

roughly half of it, it's three-quarters of the cost of social security and medicare and has grown as rapidly as social security and medicare over the last three decades. and virtually no one understands that because this welfare system is like a jigsaw puzzle in which the pieces are never put together. okay? and now the bottom line, vis-a-vis immigration, is that this system along with other government systems -- it constitutes a massive transfer of resources each and every year from the middle class down to the less advantaged. we can barely afford to do that for disadvantaged, lower-incomed americans. okay? what's happening with immigration is we are importing huge numbers both legally and illegally of people that fall into the eligibility criteria of these programs. you don't have to sit at home and not work at all. you just have to have a low income in order to generate this flow of income, and the more it legal and illegal immigrants we

have of that low-skilled status the greater the cost to the u.s. taxpayer. on average, an immigrant who does not have a high school degree receives $20,000 more in government benefits and services than they pay in in taxes each and every year. and they do pay some taxes. but by and large, that gap of $20,000 has to be paid from someplace. right at the moment, we're borrowing it. and for the next decade we're going to be borrowing it and putting a debt in the future in order to pay for it. >> thank you. our next question? yes, sir. >> it was talked about how there's a problem with education level of people coming into the country as immigrants. now how do you square with the fact with the demand for labor is for low skilled work? and have you done any cost benefit analysis on what the benefits to the economy at work and also what the -- what the cost would be if you didn't have

workers to do it? >> yeah. as the level of unskilled immigration has gone up, one of the most troubling trends in the u.s. labor market is that less-educated americans work less and less. if we look at americans who don't have a high school degree, the share who hold a job at any one time or in the labor force has declined dramatically. there's like 7 or 8 million of them now not even in the labor force who are 18 to 65. a very large fraction should be. if we look at people who only have a high school degree, especially the young, 18 to 29 years old, the share of them holding a job at any one time has declined by several million as well. all totaled, america has 25 million -- and even before the recession, about 22, 23 million, people with no education beyond high school, who are 18 to 65, not working. now, the totally illegal work force is 7 to 8 million. so it looks like we have this enormous supply and their

situation has deteriorated dramatically. the other thing is, the other group where we've seen this big loss in work is among teenagers. teenagers used to work at very high rates, say 16 and 17 years old. the last 20 years has seen a massive decline both in their year-round employment and even in their summer employment. and that's about another 8 million not working at any one time. so, you know, roughly speaking, if only one-fourth of the less educated not working of the native-born were to work and throw in a few teenagers you could replace the whole illegal work force of 7 or 8 million people. now, the other thing that's going on in the u.s. labor market that i think most people think is equally as troubling is that wages and benefits for people at the bottom has deteriorated dramatically. so not only are less educated americans working less they're making less. there's some astonishing statistics -- let me give you one of my favorites that we've come across which is very well documented. meat packers a difficult joe biden generally down by people

without a lot of education. their real wages are 45% less today than they were in 1980. now, in general for say high school dropouts, wages are about 22 to 25% less than they were in 1980. so my take on this is if we had lesson skilled immigration and we paid workers more and we treated workers better, it appears we have a huge supply of unskilled workers to fill those jobs and again, if properly paid and treated. and i think from an equity point of view for our fellow countrymen, you know, that would make a lot of sense. but instead we sort of adopted this other policy where we flood the unskilled labor market, keep wages very low and allow nonwork to become very common among less educated natives. now, there are other issues going on there, other factors are negatively affecting less-educated people in this country. it's not just immigration. but i think immigration is a part of it and most importantly it's something we could do something about. we could change our immigration policy. globalization, the japanese

setting up factories in malaysia and displacing u.s. workers is tougher to do anything about; whereas, reducing our immigration level or reducing our unskilled immigration level is at least something that is tangible and we could do something about. >> i happen to work in -- on both the issues of welfare and poverty and immigration. and so i get this very paradoxical message that i can go to one group working on welfare and poverty and be told in the morning that there's absolutely no jobs for lower-skilled americans in minneapolis or milwaukee or whatever. and then i can go to another group in the afternoon and have to be told we have to have massive low skilled americans because americans won't take these jobs. we have to reconcile these things. if you were to go to any discussion, for example, on black poverty and black family structure in the united states, the overwhelming consensus particularly on the left -- of

the major problem is low wages for black male workers and lack of jobs for black male workers. 20 years that is the prevailing factor. that's the explanation about why family has declined in the inner city, why we have poverty and welfare and so forth. and at the same time, we're being told that we need import 7 or 8 million high school dropouts from abroad because we don't have enough workers to fill these lower-skilled jobs. at the same time, when you're looking at the wages for these less-skilled males, they've almost been flat for several decades but somehow we need to have more and more of these workers. also, it's a misnomer to suggest that because immigration makes the economy larger, somehow the average citizen benefits from that. it is true that immigration and low-skilled immigration does make sort of a larger pie but the immigrant eats about 90% of

that share of the larger pie through his own wages and it does not confer benefits on the rest of us. it does confer cost on the rest of us because almost all of these low-skilled immigrants will impose governmental costs that they cannot finance through their own taxes. >> let's take a couple more questions. yes, sir. [inaudible] >> this is for mr. camarota and mr. rector. you mentioned immigrants in their own countries don't have much knowledge of healthcare systems. they don't have healthcare or they receive healthcare from the government. i'm wondering what the risk of medical tourism is when they're not aware of the system to go through to get medical coverage in the u.s.? >> yeah. that's a great question. that's a reasonable question. i think that -- i'm not sure about the risk -- it can be a lot of people numerically and it can be millions or even billions of dollars, whether it would be a very large fraction of the whole healthcare pie.

but, remember, obviously, people who would engage in healthcare tourism would be mostly the most affluent. who find they can't get insurance in their home country and they're aware of it and they can afford the plane ticket. they can afford to navigate the visa processing which millions and millions of people do every year. so what you would not expect is a person, you know, who's not literate in hindi and nobody who's college educated in india they have a serious condition that they can't afford to treat and being able to buy a ticket and come. that would be more of a phenomenal on the most educated with one very notable exception. maybe at the border there would be people who come across the border to get medical care. there are -- and that would be another example. there are about 400,000 births to say illegal immigrants in the united states each year comprising 1 out of every 10 births in the u.s. what percentage are people who

arrive pregnant, women who cross the border or overstay a visa pregnant. it could be a large number, 20,000 and it could cost taxpayers millions and it certainly does but it's hard to get a handle on how big is that is potentially but as robert pointed out, that if you don't verify which is what this new bill considers, that could grow much larger than whatever it is now. >> i would consider the precedent for medical tourism to be quite strong indeed because we've already done this once as a nation or something very similar. in the 1980s and 1990s, we allowed elderly immigrants to come in and get onto a program called supplemental security income, okay? and, in fact, elderly immigrants coming to the u.s. to retire on this welfare program, they get supplemental security income medicaid was the fastest growing on welfare. was absolutely unprecedented

and what we found and -- we had testimony as part of welfare reform in 1986. in southeast asia there were publications in the native languages in chinese and other languages on how to come to the united states and retire on ssi. in chinese, okay? and we have testimony before congress to that effect. now, one of the things that happened in welfare reform was that welfare reform said you had to be a u.s. citizen to get ssi, and that sort of checked that massive inflow, but the idea that no one is aware and are not attracted to these benefits is absolutely historically refuted. not only are people aware of this, you actually have agencies and organizations set up to inform them and to draw them in. another aspect of this would be that any legal immigrant who was

here would under this system have the absolute option of bringing their parents and their grandparents in declaring them eligible and receiving free medical treatment under this system. you could retroactively go and try to get some of that back. the record of achieving that is absolutely terrible, okay? so what you're going to do here at the very least is create a mess, which will -- will be exploited and which will ultimately have to be cleaned up at some point in the future after you already spent a lot of money. >> let's take one final question, yes, sir.épp speak up, ,cìc% >> i just wanted to ask in your studies and they're very interesting studies, but did you consider the cost of not insuring these people who are already here especially in light of the h1n1 virus and various other viruses such as that? would it not be lest costly to

the nation to actually cover these people and not expose the citizenry to even more health costs? >> well, let me answer it this way. i have an estimate -- let's just take illegal immigrants. right now we're spending $4 billion on their healthcare. let's say we gave them medicaid, let's just say, given there are about 7 million but they're relatively young so they're not expensive relative to other people on medicaid. you're looking at $15 billion. so it would be much more expensive to cover them on medicaid. but their healthcare outcomes might improve. that would be one thing. now, obviously, vaccines and emergency medical care arev stil covered but when you're talking about communicable diseases that would be an advantage. theoá bottom line is, people w are uninsured do cost taxpayers money but government insurance costs a lot more. but their healthcare outcomes improve. that's a balance but we're not going to save any money if we insure folks.

that's what we have to understand because people who don't have insurance put off care, they don't go to doctors. they pay someone on their own. taxpayers pay billions of them as well but they don't get anywhere near like someone on medicaid. >> when lyndon johnson launched the war on poverty, welfare spending in 1964 was about in today's dollars about $70 billion a year. it's now ten times higher. it went from 1% of gross domestic product to 5% of gross domestic product in the next decade it will be 6% gross domestic product. in every step of the process we were told to spend the money in order to save lf÷money. and, boy, it's a good thing we saved all that money. the bottom line is, that as long as youave this type of lower-skilled immigrant in massive numbers in the united states, either legally or illegally, they'rew÷÷ going to t

the u. taxpayers a lot of money one way or the other. to the extent that will formally incorporate these into these government programs, those costs go up rather rapidly. >> i'll just make one observation. the congressional joint economic committee just recently came out with a report, and it looked at how well estimates, cost estimates, had done on several of the programs over the past 40 or 50 years. the estimates on the front end of, say, medicare, front end of various other health programs and i believe the joint economic committees identification of that cost was that it underestimatedvñ in most every instance by anywhere from like 1.6 -- 1 to 1.6 ratio all the way to 1 to 16, so, you know --

if you're underestimating anywhere between that and 16 times underestimating, that is a huge risk on unfunded liabilities that you're potentially going to take on. and this is just one element of adding that. >> okay. well, thank you. thanks to all the panelists.kñ all of our publications as well as the transcript and video of this event will be on our site at some point relatively soon, which is cis.org and thanks for everybody for coming. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2009] [inaudible conversations]

>> as the healthcare conversation continues, c-span's healthcare hub is a key resource. go online and followd3 the lat tweets, video ads and links. also keep up-to-date with

healthcare events like town hall meetings, house and senate debates. even upload your opinion about healthcare with a citizen video. the c-span healthcare cub at c-span.org/healthcare. >> yesterday, the justice department announced dozens of indictments against alleged mexican cocaine smugglers. attorney general eric holder spoke about it with reporters and took questions about the scottish government's decision to release a libyan man convicted in the 1988 bombing of pan am flight 103 over scotland. this is 35 minutes. >> joining me are united states attorney pat fitzgerald from the northern district of illinois. united states attorney general ben campbell from the eastern district of new york. administrator drug enforcement michelle and the assistant homeland security attorney for immigration and customs-çw enforcement, john morton. today we are announcing in a coordinated action major drug

trafficking charges against 43 individuals. includb cartel leaders, members and associates in two federal districts in 12 indictments. specifically, we allege that these defendants shipped multiton quantities of narcotics into the united states through various established smuggling corridors and then through a network of affiliated distributors dispersed these drugs in cities and neighborhoods around the country. the defdants whose indictments we announced today include several alleged leaders such as chappo and ismael garza. the indictments unsealed today outlined nearly two decades of criminal activity by these cartels and their leaders here in the united states as well as mexico and other countries.

these cartels are not abstract organizations operating in far-off places. they are multibillion dollar networks funneling drugs onto our streets. what invariably follows these drugs is more crimes and more violence in our communities. the audacity of the cartels' operations is matched only by their sophistication and by their reach. but today, because of the dedicated work of our dea and ice agents, the diligence of our prosecutors our agents and our courageous law enforcement partners in mexico, we're able to charge leaders and members of these insidious cartels for their heinous crimes here in the united states. our friends and partners in mexico are waging a historic and a heroic battle with the cartels as we speak. this is not a fight that we in the united states can afford to watch from the sidelines. the stakes are too high.

and the consequences are too real for us. we will continue to investigate, charge and arrest cartel leaders and their subordinates and we will continue systemically to dismantle and disrupt their far reaching and dangerous operations. i will let the two u.s. attorneys with us describe the charges in more detail but suffice it to say the criminal conduct alleged in these indictments did not take place solely in mexico. rather, it played right out here in our own backyards. for example, in chicago, we have arrested and charged individuals who allegedly worked directly with mexican cartels to receive thousand kilo shipments of drugs and dispersed those drugs into the chicago community and throughout the country. we have learned from previous successful experiences in fighting organized crime that we must not only go after the leaders of these cartels but also seize the money that funds their operations. and that is why in these indictments we are seeking forfeiture of more than $5.8

billion in illegal drug proceeds. if we can suffocate their funding sources, we can cripple their operations. breaking up the mexican drug cartels and stemming the flow of drugs and illegal fire arms across the southwest border is a top priority for this administration. and we've made important strides in this fight. earlier this year, an extensive investigation of the cartel known as project accelerator led to the arrest of more than 750 people in the united states and in mexico and the seizure of more than $59 million in illegal drug proceeds. we have rolled out the president's national southwest border counternarcotics strategy to stem the flow of illegal drugs and their illicit proceeds across the border. we have directed much-needed resources to break up the cartels and to support the border-related initiatives. just last month, for example, i announced $8.7 million in

recovery act funds for california communities to use in fighting crime and drug trafficking as part of our southwest border strategy. we have formed an arms trafficking working group to tackle the critically important problem of weapons flowing across the border into mexico. we have formalized agreements with our partners in the department of homeland security and the government of mexico to increase our fight on several fronts. and we have brought charges against high level mexican leaders of the gulf cartel now known as the company and 15 of their top lieutenants for drug trafficking related crimes. now, all of these efforts have been in addition to the numerous investigations, prosecutions, arrests and interdictions that our prosecutors and agents carry out across the country every day. today's charges demonstrate that we will not stop until these violent criminal enterprises have been eliminated. and we will continue to stand with our partners in members --

mexico as we carry on the fight. i would like to acknowledge president calderon and his administration for all they continue to do in leading mexico's fight against violent narco traffickers. i'd also like to thank the brave professional agents and prosecutors here in the united states who have made the indictments announced today possible. their hard work, their courage, and their sacrifice make all the difference in our ongoing fight. they have shown in the past that we can defeat international narco traffickers and i'm confident with their help we can do so again and with that i will turn it over to pat fitzgerald the united states attorney for the northern district of illinois. pat? >> thank you. thank you, attorney general. our eight indictments unsealed earlier today in chicago as well as seven indictments filed earlier this year essentially traced tons of cocaine from the streets of chicago and other cities back to the groups in mexico who obtained that cocaine

by plane, by boat, by submarine and brought it into mexico and shipped it on through a pipeline shipped in to the united states. approximately 1500 to 2,000 kilograms of cocaine per month and a significant quantities of heroin were going to an organization in chicago led by the flores brothers who were the pipeline. that's about 2 tons per month. that cocaine was being distributed in chicago and in many other cities in the united states. going in reverse was a flow of cash. hundreds of millions of dollars going the other direction. ..

in custody and members of the crew or chart and a number of them have been arrested. house and a sample of what has been done by the hard work of dea agents in chicago and around the country during 12 week period in last year as a result three seizures in l.a. approximately 1 ton of cocaine was seized from the labor group as part of the chicago investigation and separately over a long war period of time 13 seizures in california and illinois, 2 tons of cocaine receive from the group as well

as that $20 million in cash has been seized in the investigation and we seek to forfeit $1.8 billion. this case doesn't get made without tremendous work of a number of dea agents too numerous to name in chicago and elsewhere working together with a team of prosecutors led by chicago and working with other offices. i take my hat off to the people would so much work and the work is not yet over and i will defer to my colleague from brooklyn. >> thanks, pat. good morning, everyone. i'm here today to announce the charges in brooklyn against terror of the most powerful violent leaders in the mexican drug cartels. they are as follows first the federation indictment named six defendants for the roles, 127,000 kilograms, 127 metric tons of cocaine into the united states much of which originated with the valley court tell when of colombia's most violent

powerful cartels between 1990 and 2005. approximately 22,500 kilograms of cocaine was seized in september, 1994 in two shipments by the united states coast guard off the coast of mexico. the indictment also alleges it is an organized crime syndicate with representatives from several of the most powerful drug trafficking organizations and mexico. it further charges the indicted defendants including cepal target's, what team on korea, is male garcia, a cornell and arturo are the chief leaders of the federation. the second indictment unsealed today is the alleged that the target fincen que is the principal leader of a cartel known as the juarez. this charge is the received multi ton shipments of cocaine in mexico from the valley cartel in the auc a colombian

paramilitary in drug trafficking organization. according to the court documents the war as cartel operates in the el paso quarter were one of the primary drug smuggling routes along the border from the city in mexico to help house of texas. the dea estimates approximately 90% of the cocaine that enters the united states comes from mexico. according to the indictment the juarez cartel maintain its power through payment of bribes and acts of violence. the third indictment is charged with he and his brother with a reading a drug organization that rose to prominence within the federation. esters on rodriguez is currently incarcerated in mexico as awaiting extradition to the united states. according to the court documents he allegedly operated narcotics supply route that originated mexico, stretched into texas and branched off to various points within the united states and putting the new york city metropolitan area. for the 12th year period charged

in the indictment from 96 to 2008 he imported over 100,000 kilograms of cocaine into the united states. the dea estimates between to fill some four and 2,006 organization was responsible for shipping truckloads containing over 2,000 kilograms of cocaine to new york city alone and in january, 2006 mexican authorities seized approximately 5000 kilograms of the organization's cocaine destined for the united states. finally, the martino sanchez indictment alleges martinez sanchez is the leader of an international narcotics trafficking network and imports multiple tons of cocaine into the united states from mexico for california and texas and transports across the country to cities such as new york, los angeles and chicago. in addition martinez sanchez also allegedly acts as an importer, transport and distributor of cocaine from members of the war as cartel and federation. from september 1999 to january,

2003 law enforcement authorities in new york chicago and texas seized approximately 7600 kilograms of the organization's cocaine. as you know indictment is how a criminal case is begun and all defendants are charged in indictment and pursued innocent until proven guilty but today's indictments we are announcing are the result of a significant national and international cooperative effort quite simply we couldn't have brought these charges were up about hard work and dedication of numerous law enforcement colleagues in the dea, i.c.e., new york city police department, narcotics section of the criminal division and several u.s. attorney's offices on the country and within our colleagues in the northern district of july, southern district of texas and southern district of florida. we thank them all for their efforts and particularly proud of the assistant attorney sinnott were office involved in the prosecution's, stephen meijer, walter dvorkin, patricia and caroline. they are a part of prosecutors who worked tirelessly an ongoing effort to serve the citizens of the district and country by

endeavoring to read the communities of the skirt of drug trafficking. we will not rest until that the battle was won. i now introduce michelle, dea administrator. >> good morning. i want to start by thanking attorney general holder for recognizing the hard work and dedication of so many dea agents working in mexico and around the country. many of the case agent of these investigations are here today with us this morning. today's indictments are another strike against the leadership of the mexican drug cartels. our relentless investigations penetrated deep into these pervasive criminal organizations connecting st. operations and u.s. communities like chicago and new york to the top drug king pins calling the shots in mexico. make no mistake along with our courageous partners in mexico, we will break these cartels and we will pursue these leaders. in these cases, we documented the direct involvement of sepoy

dvorkin pence indy 500 juarez cartels and the drug trafficking organization. they and the organizations they lead are responsible for terrorizing communities in mexico and for smuggling quantities of cocaine among large amounts of heroin and other dangerous drugs into the united states each year. specifically, dea in chicago and the dea and i.c.e. in new york established direct connections from the streets of chicago and new york to attend a drug with kingpins at the highest command and control levels of their organizations. and this led to the indictments in chicago include ink sinnott osd pots, arturo belmont, ishmael garcia and what he and also to the scope. we have york against the leader of the juarez cartel and s.

dimond and rodriguez of the los karos drug-trafficking organization. the mexican base the cartel also known as the federation is among the most violent and insidious of these organizations. working closely with brave partners in mexico we are keeping up unrelenting pressure on the federation as well as the juarez cartel and other mexican drug cartels and we are determined to dismantle these cartels and their domestic cells. during the course of these investigations dea and partners made noteworthy seizures of drugs and assets including more than 22.6 million in cash, more than 32,500 kilos of coke and 64 kilograms of heroin. many of these notorious criminals appear on the most wanted list of both countries, mexico and the united states and in fact for many of the cartel leaders the united states offers

rewards at $5 million each for information that leads to their arrest or capture, and there are fewer and fewer places for these criminals to hide so looking for what we are committed to tracking down the leaders of these mexican drug trafficking cartels and sustaining the pressure on their organizations and operations. and without mexican law enforcement partners we will find them and we will bring them to justice. thank you very much. >> good morning. i am the assistant secretary for i.c.e.. as you have heard these indictments represent years of work by i.c.e. and partners in law enforcement community particularly the drug enforcement administration and united states attorney's offices. to give you some perspective, i.c.e. agents alone invested over 20,000 hours of work in the united states and mexico to make these cases. the drug cartels we bring to justice today are not indestructible.

rather they are made up of men who commit crime. through these indictments these men will be left with lives on the run looking over their shoulders, and they should be looking. finally, let me know what for all of you here the significance not only of the indictment of these individuals, but the reflection these indictments bring on the growing cooperation between the department of justice and the department of homeland security. it is with great pleasure that i say i have known most of the people standing here at the podium with me for a long time. i came from the department of justice and i can tell you firsthand after a long career in federal law enforcement cooperation between the drug enforcement administration and the immigration and customs enforcement is unparalleled. it is throwing stronger by the day and you are going to continue to see these kind of cases, these kind of joint

investigations, the kind of concerted effort to mexico with our partners to hunt these kind of criminals down, to work with our partners at the u.s. attorney's office to charge them and bring them to justice degette thank you very much. >> yes mr. attorney general, good morning. i'd like to ask your personal perspective on this. in light of the fact your deputy attorney general ten years ago how does the war on drugs appear to you today compared to a decade ago? it sounds like just about everything you said today you could have said in a press conference a decade ago and in fact if anything's changed perhaps it is less cooperation from cocaine producing companies in south america. that is one. secondly if i might since we have you and we are talking

about perspective, it was more than a decade ago that you helped prosecute the lockerbie case and recently pegged the scottish minister not to release the man who was found guilty, and yet today they did so. i would like your personal opinion about that as well. thank you. >> we are very disappointed with the scottish executives decision to release mr. mcgraw-hill. i do not believe justice was served by that release. 270 individuals, 189 americans died as a result of his actions. he did not show compassion when he planned and executed that heinous act, has not shown remorse for what he did and in

my view the release was entirely inappropriate. we communicated this to scottish authorities previously. it is my belief he should have been required to serve his entire sentence. our deepest sympathies go to the families and the survivors families who will continue to suffer as a result of mr. mcgrawhi's actions backend 1988. with regard to the first question i thinkhat actually things are different. we have a mexican administration that is committed to fighting the drug cartels and a way that is unprecedented. people in mexico, law enforcement officials are literally putting their lives on the line. we see i think unprecedented amounts of cooperation at the federal level and our government as john was indicating, john morton was indicating i think has made us more successful. this is an ongoing struggle.

but i don't think that the fact that it is an ongoing struggle necessarily means it is one that we cannot win. i feel we are in a substantially different place than we were ten years ago and i expect we will be in a substantially different place in the future. so i am very hopeful as time passes we will ultimately eradicate these cartels. >> you have invited all these top leaders of the cartels. is it your understanding mexicans will agree to the extradition of whatever top cartel leader is caught? >> we certainly are working with our partners in that regard to try to bring that about. as meshaal indicated, there are substantial rewards that are out there for the capture of these people. there have been unprecedented numbers to the united states over the past two, three years as the calderon administration has captured these people and made them available to us here in the united states for charges they are facing and that is why

these indictments i believe are so important. ultimately i expect they will be here in the united states and they will face justice. >> the fact that were more focused on these cartels and the federation means they were more prominent in the u.s. and what happened to the cartel [inaudible] >> we are obviously going after those the cartel's where we have a jurisdiction. where the laws will allow us to reset. we are cognizant of the fact there are other organizations that have had a devastating impact and mexico and we continue to work with our mexican partners in mexico to try to fight them as well to the extent we develop information evidence that will allow us to bring further charges against those other people, the other

organizations we will obviously do so. >> [inaudible] -- cartels getting a lot of profits [inaudible] >> rest assured there are major operations ongoing right now against all of the mexican cartels, and each one of those mexican cartels significantly impacts the united states because they are all sending cocaine to the united states, proceeds from the sales on the streets of america are headed back to mexico along with the weapons. so, this is the announcement of the top ten of a couple of the and 49ers wide-out michael crabtree, selected 10th overall. crabtree thinks he should go a little bit higher and wants a deal similar to heyward-bey.

>> who would you rather have, crabtree or smith? looks like the holdout surrounding them could go on a while. even though the picks surrounding both players are all signed and ready it doesn't look like there's much progress. even though smith's agent is scheduled to talk with the bengals this weekend. but maybin is done for now. no progress or signs of hope regarding smith or crabtree the steelers q.b. breathes -- ben roethlisberger was to be reexamined today. he injured his achilles tendon yesterday when offensive tackle max starks inadvertently stepped on it during practice. what are you hearing about the severity of the injury?

>> doesn't appear to be severe at all. just the fact he went with the team down to washington is a sign that it's not going to be too bad. probably more of a bruise. but they are going to be cautious. he's not going to play in the game against the redskins but he is with the steam and does feel a lot better. >> and out to oakland. raiders coach tom cable could be facing felony starges -- charges in the assault on assistant coach randy hanson. what is the latest there? >> the latest from the team point, they said nothing happened but obviously something about and now you have the police arrived -- and the commissioner's office getting to the bottom of what happened. the allegations are that tom was involved in this. you have him being interviewed by the police and the commissioner having his staff look into this and if there is any kind of, you know, that cable was involved, because of

the new codes of conduct, he could face a fine or suspension. this is very serious. >> log on to espn.com and read john's column. back to baseball. big day for the nationals as they introduce the future. they hope. the man seen as the best pitching prospect in deckates, stephen strassburks former san diego state -- strasburg, former san diego state pitcher. he was brought out for a news conference. he's not expected to be in the bigs this this year. >> just want to help a team win a ballgame. to start with, it doesn't really matter what team i'm on. i like to my of myself as a winning personality and that's all i try to do the big thing is not to rush things and really to go out there when i'm ready. that's obviously their decision

and i understand that completely. i'm just going to go out there and do my thing and get better every single day. >> scouts and baseball people saying this is a once in a generation type pitcher. strass approximateburg dominated the college ranks last season. tim kurkjian is back with us now. this is not just some number one pick out of high school, this is a polished, dominant pitcher. when will we see him in the major leagues? >> i don't think he'll see him this year. however -- however, you talked to a college coach recently and he said he's ready for the big leagues right now so my guess is stephen strasburg will pitch in the big leagues early next season. . and the nationals really need him. they need him for their rotation.

they need him to bring people to the ballpark. they are not going to rush this kid under any kirks -- circumstances but i if i -- think he's far enough along that if he she's them anything in spring training he will be there next spring. >> what happened to throwing the guy out there and letting them pile up innings? >> a lot of college teams are doing a better job protecting these guys, plus the investment in so enormous in these guys, you have to justify, hey, we can't leave them in the minor leagues three years. so several pitchers have been up in the big leagues in less than a year after being drafted and i fully expect that of stephen strasburg. the nationals need him to get their fan base truly interested again. this was a huge thing for that organization and franchise to get them -- him signed long-term. >> we won't see dwight gooden

type stagger -- staggering amounts of innings in >> right. nobody's getting overworked. >> and this just in. billy wagner claimed off waivers. buster olney says it's the red sox that put in that claim. the mets can let him go, trade him to boston, or pull him back but if they pull him back they won't be able to trade them the -- him the rest of the year. >> coming up, star q.b.'s in preseason action. also ahead, the cowboys playing their first game in their new stadium tonight. our insider has a sneak peek. >> lightning strikes twice as he crosses the finish line! >> he's done it. another world record for usain bolt! >> usain bolt running away with another world record yesterday. we celebrate him turning 23 today with a look at others who were great at that age.

usain bolt shocking the

world again in the 200 meter in the world yesterday. >> it's a fair start. bolt wastes no time. seizes the lead immediately. here they come to the line, the home straightaway and usain bolt has the lead. it's again no contest. lightning strikes twice as he crosses the finish line! >> oh, my god! >> he's done it. 19.20, another world record for usain bolt. >> having already broken the world record at that meet in the 100 meters, a 19.19 shattering both world records, which were both his. >> rid i canless. -- ridiculous -- ridiculous. you know, brian, i remember 23 like it was, you know, a long time ago. to be so accomplished so young

-- must be something about that age that brings out the best in an athlete. >> today he was presented with his championship medal and check. that doesn't hurt. the crowd was prompted to sing to him. >> they're singing "happy birthday" to him. the whole crowd is singing. ♪ happy birthday to you >> the fans in berlin letting him know how much he's loved, eau -- at the age of 23, the world's fastest human. got us to thinking, jay. 6 did >> always does, brian. >> what other greats were doing at age 23. ted williams. williams turned 23 during the 1941 season, a season in which he hit .406 and led the majors in home runs, runs scored, walks, slugging, and on-base percentage. >> although michael jordan and the bulls were swept by the celtics in the 1986 playoffs, m.j. scored a playoff record 63 points as a 23-year-old in game

two and averageded an astonishing 43. points in the series. >> michael phelps at age 23 in the 2008 summer olympics, swam 17 races in nine days and won the gold medal in all eight events in which he competed. >> in february of 2008, lebron james became the youngest person to score 10,000 points in his career, at 23 years and 59 days old. >> ben roethlisberger turned 23 in march prior to the 2005 season in which he led the sixth seeded steelers to three straight playoff wins on the road before become the youngest quarterback ever to win a super bowl. >> and tiger woods turned 23 in december ahead of the 1999 season in which he won eight pga tour titles. >> and brett is looking to start tonight. also what to watch for tonight, tennessee travels to dallas to

play the cowboys. 9 titans are 2-0 this preseason after going an nfl bestúúxx  what a day for the numb one pick in the draft. you saw at 2:00 live on masn. here is steven visiting with the owner and his agent. a lot to talk about.

>> welcome everybody, johnny holliday and ray knight with you. clouds have blown through the area here and out to the east. it will be a perfect night as both milwaukee and washington try to snap losing streaks. this he have dropped three in a row. the brewers on a losing streak. what a great day for the guy. here today. and eventful day we saw it here live on masn this afternoon. i would imagine his mind is going 1000 miles an hour now trying to figure out what happened this day. >> and the mom and daddy know i find that it was an unreal feeling it was nothing like this. i find that howard johnson and georgia. and the agent, i mean my -- the

guy that drafted me. came from florida t is just a start of a -- it is just the start of a new era. with the franchise coming here four years ago that that was the start of a new era. it was. washington, dc got baseball back. but you are talking about the expect stations and you are talking about a guy that's the best pitcher in the country. you are talking about national recognition. i have gone all over when i went home three weeks ago i was having people there talking about strasburg. nobody asked me about anything with the nationals. you know how is the team doing not real good. this kid is -- this kid is special. a special tay. and is special now to me. the organization has committed. this kind of money to this kind of talent. and you know you cannot forget drew either. and you know way to go. >> when we talk about the

contract we'll look at the numbers that stephen will get four years 15 million. 7.5million. pro rated 400,000 this year. a 2010. 2million then 2.5 and then 3 million. the thing that impressed me about him today, ray, was the fact that he -- he has his feet on the ground he played for a great player. that helped him i think but it seems like he knows he will not jump right in. he will work up, as he should. and develop the way the nationals feel he should be developed. >> i tell what you is interesting. he was nervous and got down to the wire. we were thinking he may not sign all along that's what he wanted to do and family wanted to do. neat how that was structured, isn't it. getting $400,000, the 7 million bonus will be spread over four years. then if you look at the

situation. cabera and two years from now would you pa i him 2.5 if he is the pitcher that everybody expects him to be? in some respects it is a bargain. >> when you get this you are the head guy. this is the week that was. he is excited as can be to be right here in the nation's capitol. >> this is a tremendous feeling, you know, just that day especially. it felt like it was in slow motion. panicking. happy to get a deal and play here. >> we think this is yet one more fulfilment of that pledge that we have assembled as we have through the organization a great young pitchers coming up. but this may be the most exciting fulfilment. this is an exciting day for me, the franchise and all of you come up and see what i think

will be the start of a wonderful career for all of us. >> we'll be cautious with his development. he logged 109 stressful innings at san diego state. we're going to start him off slow. we have to assess where he is at in his throwing program. he is going to leave here and be in florida and next several days we'll assess where he is there. we'll have to ramp him up and build him up to get him to throw -- to throw in a competitive basis. >> and i think i through 109 innings over the season. wish i could have pitched more but i decided to, you know take the summer off. and kind of work out a little bit. play catch and golf and be a college kid for the last few months until today. >> there are a lot of great

athletes that have a gift at a young age. and their time is in their professional careers where they never experienced failure until they arrived in the majors. his career has there is something he had to strive for and understand was it means to work for something and to strive to be something. his record in baseball was something that was earned and accomplished during his career. i think that's foundation will allow him to use that to achieve great success. >> i'm excited, you know i want to go out and work hard. i feel like they have given me a lot of -- a big opportunity and trust you know to come in here and you know help this program win games, you know i'm

going to do everything to make that happen. >> you notice he likes to play golf. >> we can help him get a tee time. not that he needs the help. debbi taylor is down there. you had a chance to gate reaction from rye zan zimmerman about this young man. i here grounded, i think he has a lot in common with some third baseman from the nationals. i asked ryan, what is the best advice that you have for him? >> , he cannot save the team. it's not fair to put that pressure on one person. no one made it that food. stay humble. have fun. that's the important thing you are playing baseball. what a week for you and the organization.

what does having stephen here mean to you that is your family and the steam? >> this is a dream come true. everything is count for the young man. and he is 50% good instead of what the press says you know it will be a special peace in the buzz toll get to a championship. >> we don't here often of owners going out to see college players, why was that important? >> i had never seen him pitch. whether we got him or not we wanted to see what we were probably buying. it was -- it was more curiosity than anything else. and our scout was in the consensus pick. if we were out there why not see the young man. >> what did you think? it was special. it was special. >> and mark told me a few weeks ago he and his family went out to meet before he signed. they wanted to know what he was

like and ask questions get to know his personality. he knew how much stephen wanted to play and he had that fire in his belly. let's go back over to you with more on the crazy week in nationals history. >> this was. it was a wild, weird week for the nationals. monday they agreed to terms with stephen strasburget whatting the deadline. and yesterday announced that mike rizzo is the permanent gm and then today they welcomed stephen to washington, dc. the big press conference that you saw. we'll take a break and come back and we'll look at what happened last night, a tough loss for mock to the colorado rockies. they hung tough. we'll touch on that and more to come after these messages here on masn.

brewers.

now at chili's -- start your three-course meals with a shared appetizer. choose two entrees from over 15 chili's favorites, then share a decadent dessert. chili's --

 we're back at nationals park, this was last night a very interesting situation in the 5th inning with garrett mock pitching to carlos gonzales. they thought they struck him out. and gonzales get as bloop hit and all of a sudden rockies go ahead and win the game 4-1. >> they did and it was -- it was one of those deals that, you think that the guys and the umpire and second base says it is a foul. it was a tip ball. and that's what you end up with. starting pitcher for tomorrow for the series actually. >> you can see mock and they pitch well. they hung tough. and in the series 13-8. they're playing against a team that's

in contention and has the wild card lead. this he are throwing it well. struggling a lot. we're young. we're going to go through the growing pains. this he have done that. milwaukee is going through that. they're not a young staff. they gave up six runs. they're still scoring a lot of runs but they're not able to shut people down. and one of the left left- handers giving them six runs. hit the ball well. and it is brawn bought they're not able to shut people down. >> we saw as you watched the game last night, it appeared to us when the call went against mock he got it out of sync. he was asked about that down in the club house if that did indeed affect his performance. >> i mean it is that never would have happened and if it

wouldn't have been questionable. i execute and i wanted to execute and you know carlos gonzales i played with him the what i wanted to. battle of brandywined and you know hit a pitch and a pretty good spot. >> when you look back at the club. the three hits off mock, they were solid. >> he located the ball and fastball and he pounded it in. the change up was great, that's the pitch to gonzales. we cannot fell if it is tipped. riggleman many coulds out to see if it hit -- comes tout see if it -- out to see if it hit the ground ground. what was special about mock yesterday aside from the strikeout he never through it over the fast part of the plate. he was able to elevate the fastball, pitch inside.

knock gonzales down. it was exceptional. and he had no hitter stuff for me sitting there watching the game. he is getting out of the game a pitch inefficient and making the move to go to the bullpen. but mock is on the rise. the starting pitchers the clubs have losing streaks. milwaukee comes in they will through looper at the into thes. they lost four straight games, milwaukee. >> looper has been the best he has won 10 games. interesting. 560 innings pitched as a rehraofrpber before he was started two years ago. and he has been pretty effective as he goes 6 innings every time out there. he does not strike out a lot of people. 77 strikeouts. 143. his e.r.a. is 5. as all the brewer's

pitchers. >> and jd martin will start for the nashs. got back to back against the diamondbacks and. >> giving up 1 run over the 11 innings in the last two starts. and his curve ball, slider, changeup and a fastball that's not had that much velocity. he is throwing it well, the spot he knows how to pitch. a great athlete over two and a half runs. he knows about pitching as anybody we have on the staff, martin gets and the 26th start. >> picnic in the park.

you can get out there and autographs and question and answer. >> and baseball is here. >> and weekly surprises and log on to masn sports. geico's been saving people money on car insurance for over 70 years.

and who doesn't want value for their dollar? been true since the day i made my first dollar. where is that dollar? i got it out to show you... uhh... was it rather old and wrinkly? yeah, you saw it? umm fancy a crisp? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

♪ how cold is it? it's chilled down to 34 degrees... for a taste as cold as the rockies. it's aged cold. it's filtered cold. and it's served in cans, bottles, and glasses... that tell you when it's cold. why? because refreshment isn't everything. it's the only thing. frost-brewed coors light. the world's most refreshing beer.  the nationals lineup 24 homers. he has 80 r.b.i.s for the year. morgan leads off the national's offense. guzman and zimmerman at 3rd. and clean up spot and will will

at -- willingham at right. nieves will catch and martin on the mound for the nationals. for milwaukee, they are 58-62, 28-33 on the road. how about the first baseman prince fielder 67893 for 12 on the road trip he is batting .325. 27 homeruns. the last eight games he is on pace for 146 r.b.i.s. and there is the brewers lineup. and lopez will lead off at 2nd. and brawn at left. fielder at -- braun at left. looper on the mound. this he have been struggling. they lost four straight games and at one point they were hanging in there and the.

>> jj harty the shortstop they send to aaa. and he was running across the field craig counsel. the staff has gone south. they had a 655 e.r.a. they were swept but they have fielder and braun, combined for the 195 homeruns, 58. that's lot of homeruns. >> a lot! >> 195 r.b.i.s. and lopez is hitting .320. swinging well. they can score runs they have not been sell to shut people down. the defense, jj has struggled with defense, offense went south. they are playing a lot of guys out there in the park. and the club trying to make up a i guy pa was a hitter with toronto. he is getting up there in age. he is looking at a group was contending with enthey acquired

cc. and until this month they were 7-10. but it has been because of a lack of pitching a couple they got hoffman. he has 966 games under his belt. this he have weathers 944. that's one of the strong points. >> that's are the relievers. this he are fine if they can get to the point where they have a chance to win they shut it down. this he have not been table do that. this he have been giving up 8 runs in a game in pittsburgh. 6 in another game. they're having a tough time being able to put the offense down. you cannot go out and score 6 or 7 runs. the first time they met they split. the brewers the second. time for the stay in the game hold of the day. and brewers, 19. difelice with 9. villaneueva with 8. and just as they who

come out of the bullpen, you can stay in the game with just for men hair color. milwaukee on the road 28-33. overall they are 58-62. we'll talk about stephen strasburg with our man from the washington times after these messages. in the dark. no peanuts or nothin'. and then if your bag wants to bring one of its little bag friends for company, they charge another $25. that's just plain mean. why do they hate your bags? at southwest airlines, bags fly free. grab your bag. it's on! ( ding )

 . the impression was noth but positive. going back to probably and and had to do a lot of that. >> and you know he answers the questions. he is a sharp young man. >> and the case and 7 saves.

twice the conference parcher of the year. 2009 dick hauser trophy winner. that's a few of his accomplishments out in california. joining us now for the times, always a great opportunity to visit with ben guessling. people were impressed, he it was a big thing with the fire, woulds and videos on the score board but i think that he said the right things. and he has a good head on his shoulder. i met him doing a story. for whatever reason whether his upbringing or working he seems to get it and understand what it will take to be successful at this level. >> that was my question the fact that having plays for tony gwynn eased away into the ranks for this young man. >> he has got somebody all the time. you can go and you have a

question about how the hitter will approach me. how do i handle it. he is one of the greatest hitters. to have a guy like that invested in your development that's a nice luxury that obviously not many amateur players get. >> he seems like a team- oriented young man. saying what do you think you're going to do. he will do what is best for the club. they will ease him there as it should be done. >> it will be a slower process than people want to see. he will do the fall league thing. whether he makes the rotation out of spring training. if he does it will have been i could see it being more in may, june something like that that we see him here, he cannot wait to play. he will be going to florida. and out in the arizona league.

game one against milwaukee. tooic to snap losing streaks. what's nice about the iphone, is if you run into a friend and you want to share a photo with a flick, there's an app for that.

if you want to share contact info with a bump, there's an app for that. or if you just want to share some downtime, well, there's an app for that too. because there's an app for just about anything. only on the iphone.