poland and became the commander in chief of the polish army. the polish embassy in washington, d.c. posted this event. it is about an hour. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming. just to make sure everybody is in the right place, for those of you that this was a public hearing on the bridge that will be taking place at the duty headquarters. [laughter] this is also not about the kosciuszko twin bridges in albany new york and this isn't about causey as a mississippi birthplace of the lovely oprah winfrey. some of you may have heard of the county in indiana or one of many other statutes in places of america that are named after kosciuszko. and those of you that thought this would be a discussion about kosciuszko mustard that takes

place at your local deli every day. [laughter] know, this is about thaddeus kosciuszko, the peasant prints in the age of revelation. kosciuszko was a prince of tolerance to stop for the disenfranchisement of all religions and genders he was probably the greatest humanitarian of his era. in 1817 when the news of his death and exile in switzerland spread through europe funeral masses were held in catholic, lutheran and calvinist churches. even the jewish temples and muslim mosques helped services where the worshipers prayed for god to take kosciuszko's sold to heaven. think about it, europe have gone through decades ethnic and religious strife see it everybody paid for his soul. .. kosciuszko's birth was

augustus and he was elected thanks to the love of his lover, catherine the great of russia. russia started to have more and more of an impact on polish society at this time so a lot of poles were trying to figure out ways to help drive out the russians. one of them was prince adam, whom we see here. he caught the -- kosciuszko caught the attention of the prince who was at the time starting a new knight school, a royal knight school to create a class of soldiers that would help drive out the russians. and kosciuszko caught his attention because he was

brilliant at math and art. kosciuszko did this drawing of the prince. now, after graduating from the royal knight school, which today is the administration building of the university of warsaw, kosciuszko became an captain of the artillery. and during his time some of the families, the families in poland decided they wanted to get rid of the russians even faster. so a civil war broke out. and in that civil war, polaski who was one from one of the families led the civil war to drive out the russians. kosciuszko had a choice to make. do i join with polaski and help drive out the russians and go against the king and the prince who paid for my studies? either way he would be killing poles so he decided not to take sides and instead he took advantage of a scholarship to go to france and study art and on the side, he studied military engineering. because he couldn't go to the

military school in paris 'cause he wasn't a french citizen. he audited those classes and learned about all the theories from others who created these incredible military strategies. and while he was there, he did these paintings. this is one of them. and here's another palace that he designed that was meant for the prince. but in paris kosciuszko also became obsessed with a new philosophy, an economic philosophy called phyocacy and those who own the land are the richest but why are they are the richest. they are the richest because the serfs work the land and he did a

laissez-faire hands off the serfs. kosciuszko absolutely fell in love with this theory because it had a lot of implications for poland because the peasants were also slaves in poland. so when he returned to poland, he couldn't get a job in the military so he took a job tutoring the daughters of the one of the richest men in poland. the lord had a daughter named louise. and kosciuszko started tutoring louise and explaining all about his theory and she said, don't tell me about it. because when you were in paris making nice drawings, me and my sister translated the first book from french into polish. that was it. kosciuszko fell madly in love with her. [laughter] >> and he decided that he wanted to marry so he went to her father and he said i would like to marry your daughter. well, the lord looked at kosciuszko's estate, realized he didn't have that much money and

he said i'm very sorry. but pigeons are not meant for sparrows and daughters of land magnets are not meant for the sons of the common gentry. so kosciuszko tried to elope with her. unfortunately, he was captured. and he pulled out his sword and he was about to fight off the lord and his men and he realized that this is the father of the woman that i'm in love with. so he put his sword back into his sheath and they beat him up and knocked him unconscious and they took the daughter away. kosciuszko later had to run away because after this the father decided he's going to try to prosecute him for abducting his daughter. he left and went to paris and learned about the american revolution and first heard about the battles of lexington and concord so there he set sail for america. and after crossing the atlantic in hurricane season where his boat was shipwrecked in the

caribbean and he had to swim to shore with the mast because the boat fell apart eventually he made his way to philadelphia. and when he got to philadelphia, he went and introduced himself to the only american he had ever heard of, benjamin franklin. and he walked into ben franklin's office and he said, i'd like to take your test for military engineering. and ben franklin looked at him like he was from mars and said we're a country of farmers and merchants and we don't have an army much less for military arming but we have somebody who knows a lot about geometry and he asz the test and he said you're in charge of building forts. so he builtv'w forts across6ñ river, thïh"elaware river from philadelphia at forts mercer and billingsport and while he was building these forts he realized

the british ships would go into delaware and bombard philadelphia. so he started building what's known a boat. these are basically wood gentry trunks that were shaved down and they would put iron tips on the end and they would put under water so when the british chips would sail in they would puncture the bottom of the ship and then they would sink. the americans said this guy knows what he's doing. so they made him a colonel of the engineersñ and they paid hi a reward. and ben franklin went off8÷ to paris and suddenly there was a battle for who would kosciuszko work for next. well, he got the attention of general horacio gates who was ñ( commander for the northern army for the continental army and general gates was in charge of new york and he knew that the british would be coming down from canada and attacking from three sides. so he sent kosciuszko up here to a place and said figure out if this fort is secure and if it's

someplace that we can make our stand. so kosciuszko got up to the fort and said you have this fantastic fort here but you have this hill, and if the british come down and put/ canons on that hill, they can shoot into the fort. well, the americans didn't listen to him because they said how are we going to get canons up this steep hill. and so they didn't do it. well, the british came down. the general's army came down and sure enough general phillips who was with him let's get a canon up there. the british soldiers also what kind. general phillips said where a goat can go a man can go and where a man can go, he can haul a gun. bring some canons up there. the next day the americans woke up and they saw these little red coats dancing up here shooting canon balls into the water and when they started landing into the fort, they realized we have to evacuate because we're dead ducks. so they marched down the hudson

trying to run away and they put kosciuszko in charge of covering the rear. and kosciuszko to slow down the british troops cut down trees to cover the roads. he also rolled boulders to reroute streams so they would flood the roads. as a result it took the british 20 days to go 22 miles because of this blocked roads. so kosciuszko earned a reputation of having this -- where basically look in the terrain and in your fingertips feel where the canons should be and where you should make your stand. the americans lucked out because they were going to be attacked from three sides. general howe, though, changed course and went down and attacked philadelphia. the british were repealed off into the west so the americans only had to deal with the general's army that was marching from the north. and kosciuszko now was put in charge of where to put the canons.

so he came up and he drafted these plans for the battle of saratoga, which are seen here. these are kosciuszko's plans for the battle, and he knew that with the british coming down from the north they would not be able to flank the american army to the it's because the hudson river was there and he knew they wouldn't flank them to the west because there was heavy forests. so he realized that the british would be here marching up the hill and the americans were here defending an elevated position. as a result of this, this battle plan, the united states won the battle of saratoga, which was the turning point of the american revolution. now, unfortunately, there was a flame point character who was also at that battle named benedict arnold who often gets credit for the battle because he charged down the hill and told, you know, my boys, let's go. and he ended up getting shot and wounded but the real credit went

to general horatio gates and those who gave credit was dr. rush who was the most famous doctor in the american revolution and general gates replied to him, stop, doctor stop. let us be honest in war as in medicine natural causes not under our control do much. in the present case the great tacticians of the campaign were the hills and forests which a young polish engineer was skillful enough to select from my encampment. well, kosciuszko became closer and closer with general gates. that's because when slave owners tried to send their slaves to the battle of saratoga to fight in their place, gates allowed these black men to elist in the army under their own name and kosciuszko saw the black slaves of america the same way he did the white serfs under feudalistic europe. and while slavery was brutal

than serfs was. they decided that they would put him in charge of what washington called was the key to america. west point. and the whole point of guarding west point was because the americans knew that the bripp$ would try to contain the american revolution to the new england states where they began. and if the americans could control the north river at the time, which is now called the hudson river, they would be able to keep it all in one place. and because the americans didn't really have a navy, they realized that what they can do is fire on the ships from the water so they put a giant chain across the river and decided that they would build a fort right here to shoot down at the british when they tried to make this turn in the bend in the hudson river. now, kosciuszko looked back year and saw the hills and he said you need to cover the high ground.

now, the americans weren't too sure about that again and for them the only important thing was the chain. if you put this heavy chain across the hudson, this change stands at west point, the british won't be able to sale up and down the river. so kosciuszko kept arguing that you need to put these high points up there and eventually they listened to him. now, while he was at west point, he became friends with a general patterson. and general patterson had a black man who was not the slave. he was a freed black man. and this man was this lively character who was a great racontour and kosciuszko became so close to him that patterson said for now on you work for kosciuszko. well, kosciuszko built a log cabin at west point from which he worked out of as his headquarters and he would always go to different hills and do drawings to try to figure out

how to do these blueprints for west point. one day he decided he was going to cross the hudson river and stay there for three days dobbs some blueprints and then come back. so he told grippy, as everyone called him, that i'll be back in three days. well, grippy had the cabin to himself for three days. so what did he do? he had a party. and he invited all the black men at west point, whether they were slaves or freed black men, and they decided that they were going to drink all of kosciuszko's wine. and they got happy drinking this wine and they started dancing around and grippy decided that he was going to try on kosciuszko's dress uniform from poland. and his dress uniform from poland has this giant ostrich feather sticking out at the top and since kosciuszko took his boots with him, grippy put boot black on his feet so that they would look like boots and was dancing around in the cabin. well, kosciuszko couldn't make it across the river. so he came back the same night. [laughter] >> and when he arrived, he

walked in on his party and all of these black men were in shock. they made faces as if they had seen the devil. they started jumping out the window and rushing out the door and grippy fell to kosciuszko's feet and whip me, kill me master do anything with me, mr. general. kosciuszko took grippy by the hand, rise prince it is bedethe dignity of an african prince and he brought them over to the american officers and he said, we have a prince from africa who came to join our cause and by the way, he likes to drink. [laughter]1z >> so they started toasting him and they made him swill wine, brandy and a cocktail called althoughins named from dutch gin and flavored with juniper berries. >> so rather than beating or whipping him for violating his clothes, the partygoers decided they would haze him college

style and they smoked a peace pipe in his honor until he got sick. so the next day instead of waking up with lashing on his back, he would up with a really bad hangover. [laughter] >> now, during the two and a half years that kosciuszko was in west point he kept again arguing that it's great that we have the fort here guarding the chain but we have these other spots, these hills where we need to put forts and readouts. and the americans were not convinced. and so this is west point today. this is actually a statue of kosciuszko at west point. kosciuszko climbed up to this vantage point which is readout number 4 and he said, this from up here you need to have canons up here at all time because i can see the entire plane from here and unless we have canons up here, we're going to have a repeat of the fort where we'll be sitting ducks. now, after the battle of saratoga some french engineers

started showing up in america as well. and the french engineers is no, there's no point in doing this and eventually george washington said, i think i agree with the polish guy. let's put forts up there. and so they built fort putnam, which you see here, which stands here at west point. this is fort putnam from the other side. and kosciuszko essentially built this series of forts at west point, 13 different readouts and heavy forts that became this impenetrable fortification that the british couldn't attack. no, i around this time, there was someone else who noticed this, benedict arnold. benedict arnold was making a secret plot with the british to sell kosciuszko's plans for west point to the british. now, kosciuszko warned all the time that that vantage point which you just saw -- we need

200 men up there to be stationed at all times. after serving 2 1/2 years at west point, kosciuszko wanted to get back into battle so george washington said, okay, go down to the south. we need your skills down there. and on the same day he went to the south, george washington put benedict arnold in charge of west point. benedict arnold broke an order saying we don't 200 guys up there. in case of alarm, quote, only a nonadmissioned officer and three men should i be up there. and then he wrote to the british saying when you come in, come in the back way, readout number four and all these forts will fall like dominos. luckily benedict arnold was caught. when the spy, major andre was trying to cross lines into the british stor and he was found with this map. this map with a recreation of

kosciuszko's plans by a french engineer. he gave all of his plans and put them in a suitcase and gave them to a mrs. sarah warren for safekeeping. and when benedict arnold's plot was uncovered, mrs. warren was terrified, took it outside put it on the lawn and set it on fire. but this -- this -- so this was recreated by the french and this is exactly what major andre, benedict arnold's spy was caught with when he was trying to go over to the british.#@ now, in the south, kosciuszko now saw slavery up and close for the first time to such an extent as it was. here's a map of virginia, and you see the areas where there were large populations of slaves. and here kosciuszko met thomas jefferson for the first time. thomas jefferson, the man who wrote "all men are created equal" owned slaves and kosciuszko thought he was a

hypocrite. kosciuszko ended up serving the rest of the war in the carolinas where he developed a rapport with slaves in the southern states. he brought grippy with him. and that friendship helped him out a lot. and kosciuszko was drawn to other continental soldiers who were also abolitionists. one of them was colonel lawrence who was an outspoken opponent of slavery. but when the colonel was killed, the other men started taking off his clothes. and kosciuszko wrote to general green that this was mean and low-thinking. the two negroes are naked and they want shirts, jackets and our skin can bear as well as our good things. kosciuszko was in charge of south carolina and basically surrounding and putting a stranglehold on charleston. and the way he kept track of what was going on in charleston was he had black spies that would go into charleston and then come back and tell him which people were loyalists and

which people were with the rebels. eventually, kosciuszko was able to shut off charleston and the revolution ended and he actually fought in the last battle of the revolution. now, at the end of the war, the americans owed kosciuszko a salary of $12,280. they couldn't pay him 'cause the united states treasury was not set up yet. so they gave him bonds bearing interest at 6%. but this didn't help kosciuszko because he wanted to go back to poland. so he met this -- he met this man heim solomon who was a polish jew who came to poland in 1775. and he hung his shingle at 22 wall street, which was already -- new york city was already a polyglot city at the time and solomon had traveled around and he spoke all these:é% different languages and he knew all the european laws so he made a lot of money and he opened a shop where he traded, quote,

every species of merchandise and every branch of business. well, solomon became friends with jefferson, madison, and a lot of the people that he agreed with politically so he would give them loans but these were loans that he didn't want paid back. and this is one of the greatest lost heroes of the american revolution because solomon ended up funding much of the american revolution. the british arrested him in new york and he escaped and he made his way to philadelphia. and in philadelphia, he opened up a bruje which was essentially a stock market but it was out of the back of a coffee shop and so kosciuszko met him in philadelphia and he gave -- solomon gave $142 which was most likely the money that kosciuszko used to sail back to poland. and kosciuszko now and before from his time in poland understood the plight of the jews and he wrote to general green that, unfortunately, i'll

be traveling around and i'll be, quote, in the situation of the israelites, perhaps i will be obliged to ramble on for two years and more and this is my misfortune. so obviously he's referring to the diaspora of the jews and he felt like he would be without a home. well, kosciuszko did make it back to poland. and when he made it back to poland, this is warsaw, he saw that the situation is even worse than it was before. the russians were controlling more and more things. and serfdom was even more brutal and kosciuszko wrote to his sister, serfdom is a word that must be cursed by all enlightened nations. for many people in poland agreed with him. by now the french revolution was going on and there was also a polish revolution that began. and the polish king who knew that unless he joined the people who were trying to reform the situation would suffer the same fate as the royalty in paris. so the poles passed the first

written democratic constitution in europe. this was the second constitution only to the united states and it provided a remember for of habeas corpus, new rights for the berger classes and jews and serfs would be granted amnesty in poland. the king swore before god that i would honor this constitution. this constitution was so amazing that jefferson commented on it, george washington commented on it. thomas paine was so placed with this new constitution that he even considered applying for polish citizenship. however, catherine the great said if the poles freed their serfs my serfs are going to want to be free and she got to get with the prussians and the

austrians and attacked poland. and kosciuszko explained to the poles we need to have groups that are ready in different areas so we'll have our regular army but when the war goes to different regions, we should have local people ready. and at the time in poland, 80% of the population were serfs, 10% were nobility and 10% were jews. now, he wrote that we need to have a regular army of force -- if we have a regular army recruited by force mainly by serfs with no rights of protections or property they won't feel ties to our country and won't be interested in our common go good. we have this militia of all classes the nobles should be represented in the same proportion as peasants jews and those with no complete ties to our country. essentially he was telling the nobility we need to give guns to the peasant serfs and they looked at him like he was crazy.

because just like the americans in the south, plantation owners didn't want to give guns to the black slaves 'cause they knew they would turn these guns on them, the noblibility said if we give guns to the peasants they are going to turn the guns to us so they didn't listen. and as a result poland lost that war because it was attacked by all three sides. their army wasn't big enough for all three guns. kosciuszko was again forced to flee his country. this time he went to paris. where he witnessed the guillotine in action. kosciuszko was disgusted and later told poles they would not have a french revolution and then he went to rome where the vatican hierarchy considered making him the head of the pope'siarm but cardinals viewed this participation with a american revolution with a bunch of protestants was way too radical for him. kosciuszko decided he would go back and the poles would be on

their own and on may 24th, 1794, a revolutionary council that you wanted to drive the russians out of poland proclaimed him the commander in chief. that same day, kosciuszko gave four speeches to the army, the citizenry, the clergy and to the women of poland. and then kosciuszko walked into the old synagogue and he spoke with the rabbi and told his congregation that he needed their support in the revolution. this is the plaque inside that synagogue which commemorates kosciuszko's visit with the rabbi and the jews. and they didn't know what to make of the proposition because individual jews had fought in separate armies in different countries, they had never had their own army. but after a while, they saw that they could trust kosciuszko and in some areas of poland as much as 20% of the army was jewish. in addition to the regular army, dyed decided that since the peasants won't be given guns

they're going to take their siths. they bent the blades afford and decided that would be their weapon. so these -- only with these blades and with axes did these peasants go into battle. and on april 4th, 1794, the russians attacked them. and the serfs charged at the russian canons with nothing more than these siths and here is a serfs who took his hat and extinguished the fuse on the canon and the other serfs did the same and they extinguish the fuses and they took the canons away from the russians and they chopped 600 russian soldiers to bits cutting off arms and taking away their canons. well, this was incredible.

because they were not armed, only with these things, these siths. so the serfs were the most valuable unit in that battle and in military tradition in poland at the time, the commander of the unit -- the commander of the army would put on the jacket of whoever were the most valuable troops in that battle and since the serfs were the most valuable unit in that battle, kosciuszko put on what's known as a hat seen here. it's basically a peasant's robe made out of wool. well, the serfs roared in approval as their new peasant prince declared that the simon infantry would be a separate branch of the military. their motto is they feed and defend. and the poles brought these canons back to krakow. now, the following month, in the european equivalent of lincoln's

emancipation proclamation, on may 17th, 1794, kosciuszko issued the proclamation, freeing the serfs and granting them civil liberties under the protection of the government. so kosciuszko was basically trying to free the white slaves. and then he wrote to the russian orthodox church saying, quote, why don't you join your hearts with the poles who defend our freedom and yours? later, a polish historian turned this phrase around to for your freedom and ours and that became poland's unofficial motto. this army marched its way up the river from krakow to warsaw whereby now the word came now that kosciuszko's army was a multicultural army. they even had muslim soldiers in the army. they were basically descendents of the tar tars who invaded poland. and kosciuszko was met by this man, a black man named john

la pierre who showed up in poland to join the revolution. now, in addition to john la pierre, the jews decided not only do they want to be part of theiarm, but this man seen here decided he wanted to form a jewish cavalry made up completely of jews. this was the first wholly jewish unit since biblical times and kosciuszko was very pleased with this and he wrote in his newspaper, the government gazette, which was the propaganda organ of his revolution that nothing will convince other nationscñ of the sanctity of our cause and the justness of our revolution that the fact we set aside different religions and traditions of those who support our uprising and that of their own free will they offer to lay down their lives. kosciuszko's article went on to explain how jews had suffered over the centuries but now they were willing to die for poland.

and when the fighting started, even the ambassadors from austria and sweden started writing to their king saying this is unusual because even the jews are taking up arms. and a couple of weeks there was an appeal in the government gazette to the jews saying, listen, children of the tribes of israel, ye who have in their heart implanted in the god almighty all who are willing to help in the struggle for the fatherhood ye people have act. it's time to consecrate all our strength. let us fight for our country as long as every drop of blood is left us. my brother awaken like lions and leopards. unfortunately, once again poland was attacked by three sides. and at the battle, kosciuszko was surrounded and he had a giant pike driven through his hip. he had another one driven through his back and they

punctured his sciatic nerve and he couldn't walk and he was thrown in prison in russia. he was spent two years in prison with john la pierre but after catherine the great died, kosciuszko was offered freedom by her son, czar paul. we see john la pierre-6x there. he was with him in his incarceration in russia. kosciuszko wasn't sure he should take that offer because he had 12,000 of his soldiers sitting in siberia. well, he made a deal with the czar that, okay, if you let my men go, i will go. and the czar said, okay, but you can never come back to poland and you have to promise never to attack again. so in order to free his men who were imprisoned, kosciuszko agreed. czar paul also gave kosciuszko 60,000 rubles which he put in a bank account for him in london and he also gave him a fur coat because he was going to cross sweden in the winter to go to england so he figured he needed to be warm.

now, you see the fur collar here. when kosciuszko made his way back to america, after the revolution, he gave that fur coat to thomas jefferson. now, thomas jefferson is seen here in the most famous portrait to him but in addition to that, if you go down to the jefferson memorial, you'll see that jefferson is also portrayed wearing this fur coat. now, it was not just blacks, jews and peasants kosciuszko stood up on for. but it was the natives americans he stood up when the americans started pushing them west. this is chief little turtle who showed up in kosciuszko's room in philadelphia with a present. it was a combination tomahawk and he said i hear you're this righteous man to stand up for everybody and we want to show you we appreciate this.

well, kosciuszko saw that chief little turtle was consistent -- squinting and he gave him his glasses and he said, my god he gave me new eyes and he gave him his jacket and then he gave him two pistols and he said these pistols i have carried and used on many hard-fought field in defense of the oppressed, the weak, the wronged of my own race. i now present them to you with the injunction with them you shoot dead the first man who ever comes to subjugate you or despoil you of your country. eventually in this room kosciuszko was visited quite often by thomas jefferson and they had very long discussions on slavery. and the fact that thomas jefferson, who was vice president at the time, owned slaves. so kosciuszko decided that by now the americans owed him $17,000 and what he'd do with this money was that he would live off the salary but when he died, he wanted jefferson to take that money and to buy him

slaves and to free them so he left the last will intestament and he made jefferson the administrator of his estate. and this is kosciuszko's handwritten will at the time in which he wrote, i beg mr. jefferson in case i should die without will or testament he should biout of my money so many negroes and free them. that the remaining sum should be sufficient to give them education and provide for their maintenance. he went on to say that each of these black men that were freed must be married and have 100 acres of land with instruments, cattle for tillage and know how to manage and govern it and behave toward their neighbors and the only thing kosciuszko wanted in return from them was to make themselves as happy as possible. now, jefferson took this and rewrote it making his own slaves the beneficiary of this will but, unfortunately, after kosciuszko died, jefferson never carried it out. he washed his hands of this will

and left the matter to others. now, kosciuszko always wanted to go back to poland. and after the american revolution, there was a quasi war between the united states and france because much like we have the somali pirates trying to capture ships off the horn of africa, the french started capturing american ships because they didn't want americans to do trade with the british. and as kosciuszko was made an honorary citizen of france during the french revolution, after the xyz affair jefferson sent kosciuszko back to try to free -- help win the freedom of these american sailors. and so he did go back to paris and did help get the freedom of these soldiers. but while he was there, he also met napoleon bonaparte. napoleon had been running around

with all his different conquests. he had just returned from egypt where he'd stolen a bunch of artifacts and murdered a bunch of egyptians and when he got back to paris the first person he wanted to see was kosciuszko and he walked in his room in paris and said, i urgently wanted to meet the hero of the north. and kosciuszko replied, and i'm happy to see the conqueror of europe and the hero of the east. but after talking to him for a while, kosciuszko realized that he doesn't care about freedom or liberty or any of those things. in fact, he's going to be a tyrant. so he contacted his friends and the french directorate who was running the government. keep an eye on that i don't think might he might spoil your arrangement. turns out he was right because three weeks later napoleon staged a coup d'etat. there's a lot i want to tell you about kosciuszko but then you're not going to buy the book.

[laughter] >> but there's two points i would like to make in closing. in 1908, there was a journalist named israel white -- he was the literary editor of the newark evening news and he was writing about kosciuszko's will. and he wrote this will is an unwritten chapter in american history. if the suggestions had been followed there was no civil war today and the race problems may not have been so perplexing to implicit economists. years later an african-american educator named booker t. washington was traveling through europe and he stopped in krakow and he wrote in his memoirs, i knew from my school history what kosciuszko had done for america and its early struggle for independence. i did not know, however, until my attention was called to it in krakow what kosciuszko had done for the freedom and education of my own part time. -- people. the polish patriot is buried under the cathedral of krakow which is the westminster abbey

of poland and it has the honored names of that country. kosciuszko lies in a vault beneath the marble floor of the cathedral. as i looking up on his tomb i thought how small the world is after all and how curiously interwoven the interests that bind the people together. when i visited the tomb i placed a rose on it in the name of my race. thank you very much. [applause] >> i'd be happy -- i'd be happy to take any questions and there's a microphone in the back for anybody. there's a gentleman over here.

>> hello. >> hello. i'm sorry, can you speak up a little bit so we can hear you. >> three things came to mind when i was listening to your presentation. one of them was theology, one was philosophy, one was topography. could you flesh those topics out as to what you feel influenced him in terms of those three points? and also i have another one but i'll send you an email. [laughter]1q >> all three of those sound like books in themselves.ádñ well, topography, obviously, kosciuszko was always warning about the high ground and where you would be attacked from. his philosophy, obviously, was that we're all equal. in fact, he wrote a letter to his sister once in which he said, remember, we are all

equal. except that some of us have more money and education than others. and that is the only difference. so that was his philosophy in that everyone deserves a chance to make a living and be happy. he often used the word "happiness." even his letters you see before the declaration of independence, he used the word we should be as happy as possible. in terms of theology, kosciuszko was born a catholic but later on was more upset with the catholics because the catholic church also owned serfs and for him that was unconscionable. he died in exile in switzer land and there was a point where there was a protestant minister who was aging and for his retirement they decided they were going to give him a fancy parish in a fancy town and this

protestant minister decided, no, he's happy where he is. giving masses to the poor peasants of switzerland in the mountains. when kosciuszko heard this, he jumped on his horse and he raised to that minister first thing in the morning and this poor minister was shaving and kosciuszko burst in and gave him a hug. finally, a cleric whom i can identify with. and i look forward to your email. [laughter] >> i was curious about that fortress that you showed before he started building them. it had kind of a star structure and it reminded -- >> in the drawing you mean? >> well, the drawing from above. that looked like the star, a pattern of voban who was the great builder of fortresses. i'm just curious, did you find any connection with him as a model? >> that's exactly right.

he studied him in paris because -- he had to enroll in an art school but he audited all those classes at the military schools in paris. for those of you don't know, he was perhaps the greatest expert in military history of siege-craft and how to build forts. >> i'm curious about why would czar paul do anything for kosciuszko? why not just kill him? >> well, czar paul felt sorry for him and also had similar thoughts about easing up on the serfs. he later eased up on the serfs of russia not as quickly asñ6g% kosciuszko would like him do, but he was -- he was of the same thoughts in general as kosciuszko.

and he wasn't a tyrant like his more, catherine the great, who simply wanted to stretch russia as far as she could. >> the preface of your book you mentioned there was very little until you wrote the book. written about kosciuszko on both polish and american side. can you comment many reasons why you think it is? it's a fascinating story and it's surprising so little is known about it so far. >> well, i think for starters, he has this unpronounceable name that american historians wouldn't even know where to begin. and he was this -- he was this humble guy who didn't seek the limelight like benedict arnold or some other people from history. and historians in poland for many years didn't have access to archives in the united states and american historians didn't have archives -- access to archives in poland and as i'm

fluent in both languages, i decided that i'm going totsp tr and bridge that gap between the two. >> did you say anything about kosciuszko's linguistic ability. how did he communicate when he was here in the united states? >> when he first arrived he spoke french because he had studied in paris for five years. and, in fact, everybody thought he was french at first. and the first references to him from george washington and others are we hear there's this smart french engineer. but he was here for eight years and as you read his letters going on, his english gets better and better every year. >> in 1776 he was a 30-year-old man. i think he was born 14 years after george washington who was born in 1732 and kosciuszko, if i'm pronouncing that correctly,

was born in 1746, the same year as polaski and he arrived in philadelphia as you had said after a shipwreck in the indies. but you didn't mention much about his encounters with george washington, who i read several places and also in the beautiful book that was given commemorating the 400 years of poland in america which was rendered to us at the celebration of the 2nd of october which commemorated poland in my native state of virginia at jamestown in 1608. but george washington is proported in that book celebrated the great poles in american history to have given kosciuszko two pistols. they weren't by chance the two

pistols he gave to little turtle, were they? >> no i don't think so. i think those pistols are now in the military museum in warsaw. in addition to that he gave him a sword with an inscription on it and kosciuszko was actually at francis tavern when george washington said goodbye to the troops. and, in fact, he gave kosciuszko -- 'cause kosciuszko was made a member of the order of the cincinnati. and washington, when he was saying goodbye to him actually slipped a cameo ring on his finger. and i say in the book the irony of this it was as if washington was passing the baton to kosciuszko because you have one farmer general passing the baton to another farmer general who was trying to win freedom for his country. and as far as kosciuszko's

relationship with washington, it wasn't as warm and fuzzy as the relationship he had with general horatio gates because general gates later freed his slaves and he allowed slaves to joins. army as themselves rather than in the name of their -- in the name of their owner, the slave owners. so it was -- it was a more of a official relationship. and washington spent probably the most amount of time with kosciuszko was when they were at west point and on the visits to west point he would be given tours of the various readouts and forts that he was building. in fact, later on, when kosciuszko arrived in the united a second time, george washington invited him to mount vernon and rather than traveling down to virginia he went to see general gates who now had a number of black people working for him in new york and they were free black people and

kosciuszko identified with that more than with going to a slave plantation. >> the lady who had the box or the trunk with all the plans for fortifying west point that kosciuszko had laid out and then burned them, you know, for fear that they would fall into the hands of the british, was there any evidence, anything written that showed that kosciuszko and benedict arnold had ever crossed paths or personally spoke to each other? >> oh, they did know each other. in fact, because kosciuszko was so close with general gates, they were all together at the battle of saratoga. and kosciuszko had much more respect for the command of authority. and gates and benedict arnold were constantly at each other's throats. gates had this -- was at the top of the hill and the british were marching up the hill. and benedict arnold wanted to run down the hill and gates kept

saying, no, no, we're fine where we are. let them march up and we'll shoot them as they march up. in fact, i found one memoir where kosciuszko talks about benedict arnold and says, ah, he was a drunk at saratoga. so i don't think they were the same kind of people. i don't think they would have liked each other. but they definitely knew each other at west point and at the battle of saratoga.f there's a woman back there. >> my name is sylvia denil. and i just wanted to say -- actually, i wanted to thank you for writing this book which i think was long overdue. since you are involved in dyed foundation in new york, i wonder if you know when there was a play done about kosciuszko and about his life in switzerland?

and he lived with a swiss family that had a growing-up daughter, i don't remember, 17 or something, and kosciuszko supposedly tutorerd her in various subjects and the girl fell in love with him. i wonder if it was the complete fantasy of the playwright whose name i can't remember or if there was a touch of truth about it? at the same time, when i witnessed this play, it was so sad that this great hero of america of poland ended up with a bourgeois of swiss family tutoring a young girl and actually no one really knew who he was, though, he had some visitors from poland. according to the play. and i wonder if you'd comment

about this. >> well, kosciuszko dedicated the last years of his life to education and specifically education of serfs in poland and in france and, yes, he tutored -- he did tutor the daughter of a mr. zeltner and he had various theories on education and there was one educator -- and there was one educator that kosciuszko became very involved with and tried to introduce him to napoleon and napoleon said i can't waste my time with the abcs. and you mentioned this family, this swiss family -- kosciuszko at the end of his life lived in paris for a while and so that he wouldn't be living alone, he went to live with the zeltner family and mr. zeltner was a

swiss diplomat who lived in paris and he married a very pretty french woman and by all rumors at the time were that one of the daughters actually that mr. zeltner had was actually kosciuszko's daughter. but i'm convinced that this was actually was his daughter because he leaves money to her. so i'm convinced that kosciuszko had two children out-of-wedlock. he tried to get married twice and both times the fathers said you don't have enough money to marry my daughter. so there's the rumor that he had the child with mrs. zeltner but there's also a rumor that he had a child with the wife of one of his officers in poland. and recently a friend of mine was here in washington and he met with a french politician by

the name of natalie kosciuszko marzet and he asked her, well, kosciuszko, how do you have this name? and she said well, we're supposedly descendents of kosciuszko's brother. but i contacted her by email and she said within the family essentially we all know that my great grandfather said that his great, great grandfather was a descendent of that relationship that kosciuszko had with the wife of one of his officers. so i don't know about that play but kosciuszko seems to have had a very active social life on the side. [laughter] >> are there any other questions? over here. there's a microphone.

>> one of the things in your book that's sort of striking, at least struck me, was the fact that jefferson actually offered kosciuszko to become part of his family and be buried there. that's an incredible honor. why didn't kosciuszko take up jefferson on that because of their very close relationship, obviously. take him up on it? >> what do i think? well, kosciuszko was very good friends with jefferson and you're rhght, in one of the letters that i found, jefferson writes to kosciuszko saying we're both older now and we don't have many years left ahead of us and, in fact, i have this plotted of -- you know, this plot where i'm going to be buried and come to virginia and live, you know, on my estate, live at monticello and you could be buried right next to me.

but i think the reason kosciuszko did not return was 'cause he had these high hopes that either napoleon or somebody would attack russia and free the poles from -- you know, the russians and the prussians and the austrians who had all taken them. kosciuszko was also given 500 acres in ohio as a result of his being a general in the american revolution. so he had his own land he could have come and lived in ohio on that land as well. and the reason i think he didn't return because he always held out hope that he would be able to free the peasants of poland. that was his obsession. that not only did he want to free american slaves but he wanted to end feudalism, free the serfs and free the peasants of europe. [inaudible] >> how much of it would it be in current dollars and what happened to those acres in ohio?

>> anybody have a calculator on of them? [laughter] >> i don't know how much that would be but i think it would be more than a bucket full of money. and the land in ohio, kosciuszko tried to lease it eventually. he asked jefferson -- he said find some farmer who's interested in leasing the land and find out what the going rate is and give him 1% less than that. and a french farmer tried to do it without success and for the money that he had in the american -- that he earned in the american revolution, unfortunately, kosciuszko -- when he died had four different estates. he had his american estate, which he left with jefferson that he wanted him to use to buy and free slaves. but he also had an estate in poland, which he left with his sister and his sister's children and said, i want you t