oversight past and present tomorrow morning during the breakfast. and also about the performance of the test i want to add to what andrea said that actually fda does look at the performance of the test either in the pre-market or in the post market arena. the problem is or the current oversight. fda, although it does claim jurisdiction over all tests whether they're lab developed tests or kits the fda has been applied. ..

>> but we will take into consideration. and i think it goes back to some of the situations brought this morning that trying to say that they are now practicing medicine but they are providing clinically information were some action will be taken. >> david? >> i would just like to follow up on that. at pathway to know mcguigan support that. we think there might be a couple of good things and since you are there, in that bill, but generally we don't think the separation of the analytical and post-analytical analysis should be accomplished. and that they should still be maintained under clia, and not develop a new body to try to regulate something that we don't

really meet people may not really understand. and we think it's our responsibility in the dtc area to actually help train clear, help tea clia more about what these tests are, the analytical process, how it works, and engage overall regulatory process. just one other point, to doctor aikman's point about common framework and protection. i think that i could actually apply to united states as well. if you look across the board the different states have all kinds of different regulations. and we're doing our best, the goal for us is to eventually have all of th appropriate, the everybody standard and have all the appropriate licensure across all states. so pathway would definitely join

in getting a common frame. >> i didn't mean to give the impression that this was an exclusive framework to the u.k. in fact, the u.k. would very much welcome, tampa dissipation by any other jurisdictions. i think the initial idea was that a code of practice would apply to the u.k. and other european states as well. and it was reazed that actually it couldn't happen partly because the dna theft that is on the statute both in the u.k., meant that there was an protection in the u.k. that might only be present in our jurisdictions. at the rather than trying to produce a code of practice, which could be signed up to voluntarily by the dtc companies, a framework of principle should be universally

applicab. and i think it over a three-month period it may be too short of a time to develop those two away that it is globally applicable. and certainly any comments from corporations or legislator or academic institutions would be very welcome. and the website will be up and running i hope for tomrow. >> good. anyone? >> yes. >> go ahead, patricia. >> i don't know if there are any consumers in the audience, but i am a clinician. and just begin to having seen some of these reports and seen how patients perceive these organizations that do the direct consumer testing, they have no idea that they are nonregulated. they think it is a laboratory test and a result just as if i would give them their printout from the labs that i just did. they don't even know how regular clinical care laboratories are standardized and regulated and so forth.

so i test is a test as far as they are concerned. and it is just a blank slate, not whether there is regulation are not. so i think in addition to all of the public and clinical education that needs to on for professionals as well as patients, i think the real -- reliability, validity, accuracy and interpretation of every test in medicine or any direct to consumer arena needs to be addressed and this needs to be discussed publicly. and i think that's one of the challenges that we have is that people will believe what they gefrom the health food store because someone has made a claim for whatever it is that they are looking at. an they believe this. and for many people in the public, they are one and the same. >> i guess i kind of resonate to the common. i think it seems to me, first of all, the industries thriving and

will continue to drive, which is fine. i do think they are engaging in a practice that is getting very, very close to a clinical laboratory. and i think that tre ought to be a uniform system of sndards that are applied both to the commercial sector and to the health care sector so that the people who received the information have the same level of confidence or whatever word you want to use in the results. and i think that's one of the issues that i have been trying toet my hands -- my head around in understanding exactly what fda does and doesn't do and what clia does and doesn't do in that regard. look for the companies to work together to get uniform

standards, which i think doctor becker mentioned might be happening, i think it's okay. but i don't think that's the solution because their standards ought not toe different from the standards of any clinical laboratory that is offering comparables services. because i don't think csumers can tell the difference in general. and i don't see any reason why they wld think there was a difference, based on the promotional stuff going on by the companies. so i'm not being negative about this at all, but i'm just trying to think of a way out of the dilemma so that asks the industry thrives and would move forward, there is some consistent lel of quality assurance that all of these entities that are performing these tasks and delivering results to people must meet.

and i think that would be a good goal, and how to do it i don't know. >> david, what you're driving at bill gs beyond what the data are that the microarray produces. in other words, how far will the standards go? is it just to the quality of the test as run on a sample, or does it go all the way through to regulations or standards for announcing the results, displaying the results that presenting them to customers, clients? >> i don't know. i think that is a very legitimate question. and i don't pretend to have the answers to them. >> but your focus was on the testing a sample, right? >> yeah, but i mean i actually agree with you that it is the testing, and in what you do with the information.

>> i think what david is expressing a is a certain level of malaise, anxiety, in terms of the potential sort of, i guess misuse of the information that could come out both in the context of people on their own as well as the impact on the health care delivery system. i think one of the things that the workshop that we just had last year, which didt have much time to go over all the accommodation, it takes all of thesthings into accnt and ask a person in the context of the inadequate that they have uncovered. i think as a consumer, as a provider, we need assurance that the full gamut and clinical mobility, the allegations are

taken caref. is not sufficient to say that this is a test that can, you know, has a good analytical validity. even that long takes, you know, half of the oversight crt to cover that between clia and the fda. i mean, if we are confused between is this a prime example or a human sample right now, i mean there are issues that have to be addressed. but on the clinical side the clinical validity, that's what i was asking about all these evolving markers for heart disease, etc. we are generally in a state of flux and confusion about what these numbers mean. i mean, based on the slides that he showed and the slides that i should, i don't think provirs know what too with this information. and it is not sufficient to say we need to educate providers, because providers can be educated but we need to go collect the data that actually

shows the validity and utility. and then display it, display it in a prominent way for the providers and consumers so that they can make the right decisions. so the amount of oversight that is needed to assure that process is what we are talking about, whether it's new regulation or using the existing regulations, it doesn't matter. but i think as a society and as a health care system, we need that information. i think one of the recommendations that they made is this mandate a genetic test registry, which you didn't talk about, andrea, but i think it is one of those things that the test developers will put out their best guess of what that information means. the other thing, independent panels can actually take a hard look at the eviden, say okay, is there more on average but more harms or benefits than harms to the not only the individual tester, but to the system.

i think we're dealing with a disruptive technology that may or may not affect everything we do. it may lead to truly revolutionizing the way we practice medicine that could also break it and could break the health care system and could add additional unwarranted costs. i mean, think about all the various risk estimates for various diseases and think about how many follow-up tests that could be done to rule in or out these kinds of increased risks and whether or not we end up getting people more drugs because they have these steps where people have colorectal cancer screening at an earlier age or prostate surgery at an earlier age. i mean, these things have to be mehow considered as an outcome of these things. and right now if i was selling a biomarker, that hasn't rate of one point he. that is not going to do it.

forget about genetics. genetics has sort of this mystique about it but think about biomarkers in general that are supposed to be providing tools for risk assessment. we are not there yet. i think the evolving literature, as you heard both of us but didn't, we may be there next year. i think the clinical validity will involve more quickly. for clinical utility there has to be some randomized clinical trials at some point to evaluate whether or not if you add that additional information to the system, whether you do more good than harm. and of those things will take you two timing, i don't -- i'm not sure i follow your prediction that within five years or 10. i don't know what numbers you gave on this, but i think it's goingo take more time to study the impact of this information on clinical and health related outcomes. and just to put it out for the consumers and providers to figure out what to do with it, it's a major bird. i mean, no matter how much you

educate the providers and consumers, this stuff is hard. i mean, the numbers are changing on a day-to-day basis and i think we have enough oversight to ensure that the consumers and the providers are getting the right information at any iven point in time, which would be differen tomorrow or the year after. how do you put it all together is a challenge. >> can? >> you make a lot of points there and i don't know if i can respond to them all. but i think the first one i would respond to is the analytical validity. you make inabilities about whether a potential case if it is human or so in a spirit even i would guess cpa or clia accredited labs make the state. there has to be quality assurance schemes in place which they are in the u.k. and i think that we have as i understood it in the u.s.a. has them as well. and in the u.k. the getics lab whicmakes single gene disorder diagnoses they are well in place. i would put the analytical validity once i because i think

it's much easier to deal with. there are, whether the test are accurate reporting in the labs and licensed registered with the right afterwards, that is a much easier thing to do. the thing that you raised, the next thing you raise is whether these snips are really of any validity at all. whether they are utility. and i agree that the evidence is not really there. but i think that in terms of diabetes and coronary disease, the arguments are much less clear because for diabetes we've be telling people they should take a good diet and lots of exercise for years and it either do or don't take the advice. and this is likely to particularly help, and i agree. it could even stop people fro doing it if they think they are at risk. and it is a potential. but i think the case for me at least is much clear for cancer. if you knew that you had a 203 form. for individual steps may be one point threefold, for the concert at risk may be two or three fold which i think may be much more

clinically relant. if there is a clinical inrvention for some cancers there could be, there could be done by earlier screenings. that isn't something we want to deny people there and i think it comes a question in the u.k. for example should it be in the nhs or should it be by direc consumer testing or private health. i think in the u.s.a., it's probably a question of whether you get reimbursement for it. and at the present time i would guess that the statistics and evidence is not going to get reimbursement and that this will stay in the director consumer market. so i think what the house of lords comittee recommended, and you refer to the national institute of health clinic of excellence, is that at the moment they upraised drugs and they're no particularly a problem with the promise pharmacological industry. the genomicnquiry proposed that there should be a new

program established which is specifically appraised the clinical effectiveness and clinical utility of these studies. and although peter donnelly i think consciously said that he thought he would come into routine practice and he is talking about the nhs within 10 years, my guess is that for some diseases, it will be sure that the models that include snips will be more and there will be a public health case. for introducing these in models for screening well before tenures. but i would like to predict exactly. >> we're going to move on at this point, and before we create a getic accountability office here from the government accountability office, there will be plenty of time to discuss these issues as the remaining afternoon and morning, the prram continues.

>> thank you very much for inviting me today. i think this will be different than somebody of the discussion to. i suddenly don't have the medical and background at l if you have. at my staff would laugh at that and say that is an understatement that we did do an instigation into thousands based the lt 45 minute or so i've been in the room it seems like it is very relevant to your discussion and should enlighten some of the talk here. so i'm going to get backgrou quickly up my good. at gao, and i'm going to talk about the investigation we did in 2006 and give you a little bit of the objectives, methology results from that,

and i was really anticipating questions and discussions here for as long as you would like me to. a little bit of the background on my good, we do mostly anti-fraud work and the special investigations and a little bit of security vulnerability assessment. we do some of the motherhood apple pie kind of things looking at challenges facing our natio which is an understatement, if you will, at this point. i can spend hou talking about that alone. ethics, stewardship, intro controls and and a little bit of online and national security issues. relevant to the discussion today have the thority and oftentimes to undercover testing which really enlighten people about what exactly going on out there. and that will be very low but to what i'm talking about here. we look at the nutragenetics test, the director consumer marketing of them. getting into issues where they were going to recommendertain lifestyles bas upon your genetic profile, and so that is what scrubbable we did, the nutragenetics, it is a very

broad set of test out there's so we limited it to those types of test which i assume are still out there today. we did this rk for the senate special committee on aging related validate the legitimacy of the claims that were being made by these companies. we did that do a statistical sample so we could not project our results sorted to all the companies out there that are doing this on the internet. probably no one could possibly identify all of the companies that are askedut of. it is probably a moving target. on a daily basis or weekly or monthly basis, but we selected for website that we are doing these mutagenic test. and all claimed to look at a limited number ofenes, and specifically for you, and i don't know which genes, but it was between four and 19 genes that were being looked at for the various test. and then they would create a personalized lifestyle and dietary recommendation. they all stated that the product would not test for predisposition orrovide diagnoses of actua diseases and

your aptitude for getting those types of diseases. so we have 14 of the zombies for sites leading leading to a variety of result when we look at this, i assume these prices have changed over time, but the prices were between $89 almost $400 per kit. the methodology, what we did was we created fictitious consumers, or bogus individuals, we're going to send the information in on. ashley had real people who provided the dna and the way they did it was a little cheek swab. it's almost like a q-tip thing that you schwab and she. i can it was. added to each time we did two samples. we used a nine month old female and a 48 year old male and just to let you know that the, it was my daughter. and we did consent. i don't know if we would break theaw today by doing that, but that is in fact what we did. we did the questionnaires with these additions are providing

dna samples. each company had a specific questionnaire that you fill out. is a weave about these questioners with 14 different individuals of different ages, xes, different types of dietary practices, smokers, non-smokers etc., and we turn these into. and we certainly can salted with experts because we did i'd anas expertise to fully evaluate these results. this shows the profiles of people, our 14 fake people. it's a wide range of ages from the '20s to the '70s, males, females. what you don't see in specifics where some of the people spoke, some were overweight and some were underweight some drink excessive amounts of caffeine, some didn't. so we put a variety of profiles out there. and again, this was $0.14, 12 of these were with my daughter and the other two were one of our special agent, the male who was 48 at the time. this is what we got. it's kind of interesting. i mentioned that the websites

claim that they were goi to make any diagnoses, but in fact they really did. and what they predicted here for us would be the various types of increased risk, if you will, these various types of conditions. some very serious. i heard some discussion your diabetes is one of them, osteoporosis, cancer, reduced ability to clear toxins, high blood pressure, heart disease, and in brain aging which i believe i am getting at this point. this is some of the specific from the actual results we received, and again there's a lot of detail behind that. but just a couple of things and you can all read through them about issues related to the ability to metabolize cholesterol, mineral absorption. you that issues related cardiac, brain aging, cancer, and then age-related conditions associated with elevated level of dna damage. so there was discussion of damage to dna.

at the time we did this, and it sounds like probably still, the experts that we can salted said that the predictions did not have a basis in fact. there was not enough evidence out there for these predictions to have a scientific basis, if you will. and really there are two parts of this. one proven at the time, but also amguous. the way they were written was you are at increased risk or you may be a increased rk of these various conditions. so it was very strange wording, if you will. something like the weatherman predicting 50% chance of rain. you know, just anybody in the world could have met the criteria you may be at increased risk of getting certain types of cancer. that waseally the result we received with respect to that. on the lifestyle piece of this, and this is very, very interesting. again, they claim that the lifestyle recommendations u going to get was based on your unique dna. and so as we build is out, that's why we did a variety of

actual people with various lifestyles. and what we found those who depend on what we said, they said the opposite. if we said we spoke, they said don't go. if we said drink excessive alcohol, don't drink at all. if we ate at a good, stop eating type of. on the other side if we didn't go, they said keep up the good work. that anything. really commonsense lifestyle, but they link it to the getic testing in your unique genes. another piece of this, i don't know if you talk about the supplement piece of this, but certainly several of the websites were also marketing supplement at the same time they were giving you the results and you are at increased risk of these seases. very clever how comn you, linked together a little bit to say if you took the supplement, well then maybe you would be at decreased risk of actually getting the serious conditions. and they ao said the pills were unique. well, the two @eople we had, my

daughter, and the special agent are two different people, unrelated. they both got the same exact same supplement. exactly the same. said both got the same unique supplement. and we saw that throughout. and the supplements were almost always the same. in fact, they were multi-vitamin that you could buy. goes another one and claimed there was that repair damaged by dna by taking this pill. based on the experts we spoke to, there was at that time no such bill that could repair damagad dna. the xt chart shows the cost. knows really what i thought this was kind of a consumer fraud scam, in my view. we had them look at this and it was exactly the same ingredients, vitamins versus what we got in the supplements. you see the various types of vitamins. the only difference is there was a little more for the supplements on the left of i

think some b-6 iron and various other things. some of the stuff could be dangerous if you got too much iron. out of the difference myself. the fact of the matter is look at the cost at $0.10 a day versus $3.20 a day for basical multivitamin. so that was really another piece of this in the end. there was another set of vitamins i mentioned i think was $1800 a year for that product. so there were various products marketed and this is quite marketed for this is really the investigation, and i'm going to just say the purpose of this was to give congress an inside look at what was going on in this direct to consumer marketing over the internet at the time, although we did see some of these in grocery stores and pharmacies and other things like that at the time. don't want the marketing is today. we certainly did not intend to st any doubt on the clear medical eviden out there, the promise of this field and that was never our intent. but again, it was hopefully to inform and i hope it helps to inform the discussion here today, so thank you.

>> excuse me. league will speak next from the center for biomedical ethics. >> okay. can you hear me? arai. first i would like to thank the organizers for inviting me to this workshop. it's obviously a very important. i should situate the stock by reiterating that i am an anthropologist, and my work is born out of an interest in understanding how emerging genetic technoogies and information it produces is taken up by the population. and how it can impact predominant social ideas about difference andbout our ideas

about biology and social identity. such as qatar, i think would be important to think about what i have labeled your shorthand for traditional paradigms of genetic testing just to see how we shifted in the last several years. and these are based on some kind of basic tenets of how we think about genetics. the first is a traditional approach would be that genetics test justified for at risk individuals for actionable conditionconditions with available options. so the idea is that genetic test should really only be dered by those or for those who have shown through medical history and the history, a reason for taking a genetic test. and that they should really be done only for conditions that are action in the sense that you can actually do something about them. another kind of basic approach to genetic testing has been oversight by trained health care professional, the idea that these tests should only be ordered by position or another

type of trained health care professional. and that they should be a requirement for pre-and post test genetic counseling that we should have high standards for quality assurance deliveble you and the liability and that there should be mechanism for ensuring confidentiality and privacy, a of which are built on this idea fundamentally that genetic information is special. i put this up but not to say that we have somehow departed completely from this paradigm, but just to show you how we have shifted somewhat at least in the ways in which we think about direct to consumer to know what in particular. the first is that there are a lot of messages out there in terms of se of the information produced by direct to consumer genomic companies that individuals will have a right to information without being at risk. to the idea that you have to somehow prove that you need a genetics test is really been kind of secluded by some of the companies at least in some of their messages. that there is a diminished role

of the health care provider, health care provider and the broader category of genetic experts. so the idea that the longer do you necessarily need a health care provider to have a genetic test, and that genetic expertise can come from different types of sources, namelcompanies now can provide much of the information on genetic information to the public. a proliferation of genetic or not conditions, really this category of action ability is under contenon now about which test we should be allowed the public have access to in terms of diseases and traits. and a medical genetic testing is only part of the picture. so the idea that we've been close to sing here mainly on medical genetic test but there is this other broad category of tests that we mht not want to distinguish from in terms of a bright light. light.

sign of the term recreates a genetics has been bandied about. my own opinion is that perhaps a dichotomy does a disservice in thinking about the rate of progression that we should be putting in place in anticipation of how these pests might broaden in the future. genetic research is a catalyst for public advocacy and activism. we're going to talk a little bit more about that in the afternoon, but to really think about companies as being a site for genetic research and a catalyst for plic interest in that type of research. and incorporate guardians of the personal genetic information. so who owns, who takes care of one's personal genetic information. increase in the company are taking up that role. what remains the same inc. and what we see is ahifting landscape is this idea that genetic information is indeed special. i want to do hs just immature time i have is to think about some of the social issues that

are emerging from this shifting landscape you to have a think about or anticipate somebody challenges, and i picked for different topics. i could have picked more, but these are for areas that i think deserves some scrutiny in terms of how we are approaching regulation and guidelines. the first is the social networking, and in particular privacy protections. for those who have chosen to share their information online, the second is company-sponsored research, consumer, have the consumer has often been recast as a human subject. ancestry testing in terms of finding common language in describing genetic ancestry. and finally behavioral genetics, the testing of normal traits. him some of you will recognize this from the website of 23 meet. had been a front runner in terms of providing sharing architecture online. this is a compared gene stool that is available for 23 and the

customer. and with it if you are a member of the 23 and the community you can share or at least compare i should take your genetic results with another individual who is part of that 23andme community. and you will see your individuals, and how they may be similar according to these various traits and diseases. in addition, this particular company allows an individual to create, if you will, your own family or group of friendsn which you can compare and share your getic information in terms of increasing or decreasing similarity. and again, another tool that is available now, at least by one company from the social networking, social networking genome.

another set of tools that are available are the sort of virtual communities that are given space on the website to conve and to talk to each other through bgs about different genetic information that might be of interest to them. this is from the 23andme website with a talk about an instant circle of friends. here is the pregnancy community really trying to congregate individuals who might be most interested in certain issues dealing with pregnancy and genetics. now we have gone into more detail about social networking and its possible uses through direct to consumer genomics. and we tadk about this in a recent article in the american jourl of isle at exhibit focusing on this concept and it is a concept that habeen brought up by anthropologist in

thinking about how we are starting to use much more kind of genetic information, biological information and creating our cultural and social identities. and here we talk about direct to consumer companies is emerng as new regimes of sociology where personal genetic information constitutes human identity that build on relationships. social networking around a personal genetic information has the potential to buyout groups which overcome the nature, culture split. and i think it is important to think about how companies may serve as that locus for bringing together individuals who have similar genetic profiles with other groups that may not have existed prior to the coalescence on the website. so this is kind of a quick summary. social networks, we have an expanding infrastructure, commercial infrastructure for

networking. and not only on the site of the varis counties, but also in terms of collaboration with different social networking platforms like facebook and myspace.com, and weaybe behooved to think about or anticipate how the travel of personal genetic information may be a medium for connections but also an important site for scrutiny in terms of protections and privacy of those privacy. this is not to say that direct to csumer genomics the first area, industrial area that has tried to bring together individuals, patients online. and this is from the website patients like me, which is an online company that tries to bring together patients who have been diagnosed with various conditions to talk about their experiences, to share ideas around therapeutic. really as a way of creating

virtual online communities. and what they have done in terms of their approach to privacy is interesting, i think that i think it is emblematic of what we might see ver soon with these other companies. but it is called an open philosophy, and the idea is that the internet, and this is directory taken from places like patients like me website. it can accelerate research like never before. furthermore, we believe data belongs to you the patient to share with other patients, caregivers, physicians, three searchers, pharmaceutical and medical devices companies and anyone else that can help make patients lives better. an example of the type of transparency that we may be seeing in terms of social networking and sharing of informatioonline. now, we all know that the genetic information was passed a little over a year ago, and it

does provide important legislation in terms of the prohibition of discrimination by employers and insurers. however, there is some question about how this relates to online sharing of data, and whether or not the same type of protections will be extended to information that has been gleaned from publicly available sites. as well as kind of the inadvertent taking of genetic information. and one of the questions that i think has yet to be resolved is whether or not this type of online sharing of personal genetic information is indeed protected by g.i.n.a and whether or not we need additional protection for those who do decide to share their information online. the second area i want to bring up, and again, this is perhaps a segue to the afternoon session about research, but the expanding use of company in

thinking about personal genomic research. and so here again this is from 23andme. unlike other company, research where they enroll some of their communy members into vious research efforts. and the justificion for this is the scaling up. the idea that companies can somehow take the place, or at least supplement what we see done with traditional academic research and really speedily along genetic research. and here they say 23andwe is the new efficient way to do genetic research even though the technologies have made it possible traits and conditions more effectively than ever before, collecting the data for this research can be a costly, time-consuming and logistically difficult process. progress is entered by the fact that these studies require both genetic and personal information

from thousands, sometimes tens of thousands, of people. so the idea here is that companies may be taking the role of reallycaling up. and that through collaboration, again from 23andme, one becomes empowered. another quote 23andwe intends to create another kind of collaboration. by connecting consenting 23andme users who are interested in producing in research and/or genotype da with the research community, we eliminate the need for an efficient recruitment procedures and distribute the cost of genotyping. we believe connecting people with a scientist and powers everyone to accelerate the pace of research. a powerful public message, and this is a translator to the most recent effort by the company unveiled this summer called the research revolution, where consumers can sign up for the services at a cut rate can be part of i think i now have 10

different research projects. so i think this begs some fundamental questions about how we as a society want to approach oversight of these diffent projects that are emerging out of direct human genome is. i list for different questions. there are many more, but to start with, what does democratization of the genome mean for the future of large-scale population-based biomedical research? what are the implementations of the blurring boundaries between consumer and research participants? wind as an individual who signed up for these services become a human subject? and it is at transparent to the consumer when they are signing up for the services, how will consumer genetic information travel, given that samples and data are stored with the company? how will questions in terms of the questions being asked of the genetic information travel, and will the consumer had any

control over the kinds of questions that are asked of their information? and what are the rights of the companies and consumers of these types of research efforts and social networking practices move forward? in the meantime, i want to hit onto other issues that may be important in terms of thinking about or anticipating regulatory oversight of direct to consumer genomics. this is the area of genetic ancestry. i know we'll talk more about this. i would just say that, you know, with the desire, much of the desire around consumer genomics has been on the area of the question of whether or not you can imagine where we come from. and a group of us recently published an article that talks about the need for regulatory oversight in some of these services. and one of the questions that we

ask in this article is really how do we find,, knowledge. you on the left, you see our different examples of the definition for origin, for exple. people and communities approach the idea of origin very differently. and how can we then start to think about what we are conveying to the public in a more unified fashion. and there is an excerpt from the article. first, that may be a jnt creation of a nacchio that characterizes key concepts like probability, association, origin, and ancestry to help minimize the ability to and how it crosses the atomic unit and governmental and community with a different vantage point and i would argue that this is certainly not confined to genetic ancestry, but to e broader field of direct consumer genomics. finally, the texting, i think in

thinking about regulatory oversight we should be mindful of thexpansion of normal trait testing. this is just a quick list at what seems to be out there now. and you'll see it really runs the gamut in terms of testing for memory, food preference, height, intelligence. and i would just end with this. i don't know if many of you have seen this article about a summer camp in china where parents for $880 could sign up for a week of summer camp, starting with and you'll see on the bottom page where a young girl is being swapped for her genetic sample. and this is a quote from one of the parents. is that nowadays, competition in the world is about who has the most talented at an early age. and sell these tests are being used as a way of providing information on these children in terms of musical talent,

athleticism, management skills. and in the summer camp would try to hone in on some of these early predictions of their natural talents. so i only put this up there to kind of help us think about where it is this testing going? and to really give us this idea that there is medical testing and then there is everything else that is recreational because i think reay those kind of boundars do not serve us well in terms of the radio to oversight. thank you. >> thank you very much, both of you, for interesting presentations. as i listened, sandra, to the first two of you are for topics, social networking and company research, mentioning 23andme and yoare from stanford. i started to think only in california. but on the oth hand, this is a global phenomenon as was pointed

out. the floor is open for questions. we have someone, david, you will come next. >> a recent speaker brought up a very, very important point, and he stole some of my thunder for tomorrow morning. because i'm speaking on some of the same issues, although i'm going to speak on them in the economt point of view. and she spoke added more on the other point of vw. but the issue she brought up that i think it's so important that i have not really heard this this morning. is the idea that these companies have a resrch purpose as well as a services purpose. i'm not particular familr with the companies. i work more in euro signs generally. about my understanding is that these companies, their business model is to build a research database, that they are really focusing on that database as their long-term biness objective. and so we need to think about

what are the pros and cons and the costs and the benefits of that side of things, as well as the provision of direct services to consumers. because otherwise it seems to me we are missing an entire purpose of what the companies are trying to do. but i would be interested in hearing, particularly because we have some people from the company here, whether that's really true, and what they see as the applications of that. >> this is definitely part of what i'm going to be speaking tours in the afternoon. but i have to say that as one of the things we constantly hear about in terms of the genetic association studies is obviously the power of the study, the number of people involved. and so as wean start to expand the number of individuals who have been tested for whom we have genotypes, for whom we have been a tip or family history did i think think is obvious and

natural resource in terms of further discoveries. so i know from the other perspective on the one of the absolute gold is for us to be able to utilize our patient, our client base to be able to better learn how to refine all of the risk associations, whether it be for ancestral groups or whether it be based on phenotypic groups and such. >> right. sandor, did you have -- >> i did have a questio actually. sodas navigenics then see itself as the guardian of that data, or does it leave open the idea that you can sell that data set at some point to another entity? and is that made transparent to consumers when they sign up for this? >> essentially, we think that every individual own their own dna and on information. and thats something we are very transparent about. one of the things i'm going discuss this afternoon is also

about the specific language around opting in to donate your dna to any kind of research endeavors. which is something that unlike some of the other companies that are out there is an option. is not a required component of our testing service. >> we have three or four people who are looking to speak. patricia, david, and someone standing back here, and joseph, and david. [laughter] spec anyone not wanting to speak? >> and let me turn to david, i think -- >> muin khoury is very eager to speak. >> i am very interested in learning more about the research use and how that is envisioned, and wheer -- i think, given again the incredible hopes that academic institutions and teaching hospitals have to go

through with consent forms to do anything with patient materials, i am really interested in seeing your informed consent processes. so i will look forrd to you this afternoon. the other thing i wanted to throw out that, not to distract us, is that genetic information is the right age is the property of an individual, but the genetic information actually has a kinship relating, relatedness to it. that i you genome is unique in some ways, but it is shared with many, many other ways. and the issue of how far one goes with making one's genetic information available for democratization for socialization, or whatever else, there is an issue here about whether you are close kin are also being dragged into this

society without even knowing it, let alone consenting to it. and i wondered whether anybody is thinking about that. >> i am glad you asked that question, david, and your next. i would just like to make three comments. first, greg's talk about the gao study from 2006. i think the field has evolved since then and would be nice if you guys could repeat the study in the current landscape here and i think some of the early companies that you have probably said he had ceased to exist. second comment with respect to the resech endeavor, i think people who join these kinds of research efforts are truly not representative of the underlying population. they're going to do well no matter what. i mean, we have done a clinical

trial where we analyze people into receiving personalized information on the basis of their family history, versus receiving genetic public health messages. and guess what? both groups did well by talking to people alone, i think you cannot attribute, if people do well on the basis of being called that because they are not motivated enough and going to do more of the right things. and you can only attribute that to the intervention, which is the genome. itould be self-motivated and you need to subject these kinds of studies to the rigor of randomized clinical talk,hich i hope and sincerely hope that the business model of these companies would involve the. the third question directed to sandra, talked about, and i'm not an anthropologist. i play one on tv but i am curious that a networking that is now clustering around genetic information can bridge the

genetic culture divide rather than create new that are involved in more like this around genetics and forgetting the role of environmental factors in disease and general. i am curious to see how the anthropology of the nature and nurture, or nature and culture might evolve as we all cluster around saint genetic traits. and we create, you know new racial ethnic or other based on our genome profiles. and so too much stuff you. i don't people want to -- >> sander, if you'd like to make a brief response and they would go to professor and into the microphone. >> so we are just typing some work with a company on networking. so we don't have the data yet, but i think that your question about how genetic information can trump other sources of information, is something that we have seen in the arena of genetic ancestry, in the sense

that people who may have lived, you know, their lives identify with a particular ethnic or racial group may receive results and all of a sudden that challenge is how they see themselves. and so i think it's important to do empirical work on how this is being taken up by the individuals. >> i also, the research hot button got to me as well, and i think one of the issuethat i see is whether there's going to be plic or private funding of research. and this is a little like what's happened to our clinical trials in oncology which is largely funded by pharmaceutical companies now instead of by the government. because the gernment doesn't have the resources to do that, but they would get files that are really directed toward the question of the pharmaceutical company wants answered and noble we really have as a major scientific question. and so on the backend when you're sharing your specimens with whoever comment is that going to be peer-reviewed

research, is it going to be for the public good? and again, the confusion for the doney, or the altar restricted volunteer is they are just, it is research but what is the quality of that research? are the specimens being used for a cause that has gone through a peer review process, through an irb, that says that the research is scientifically valid, that the benefits outweigh the harms, etc. etc.? we have is experience with pharmacy database is being sold to the pharmaceutical companies. there are electronic health companies that could have a viable financial model, and instead gave the electronic records free to the doctors to use. and then onhe backend, sold by prescribing practices to those doctors. so i think it's not to say that you don't have good intentions, but i think it's an issue of what kind of research are the specimens going to be used for, and what is the quality of the

data, it's a volunteer populace and it is not population-based. what would be able to learn from them. >> i'm going to go to the floor for the next two questions, and ask each person who speaks as they were just briefly identify themselves. this is a fascinating material we are dealing. on the one hand, the medical community is being cut out, and unwilling, potentially unwilling members of groups and families are being dragged into. there is a lot of shifting and shifting going on here. >> i am from an rh. santer, could you elaborate some more on your idea o creating a common language of gamma knowledge, the concept in dade which can be transmitted across rious recipients ofhe various groups of people. as you know, we are still struggling with the old issue of two cultures, and now we are

faced with the idea of communicating between the molecular biologist and jnana says. it really has become very, very hard to communicate across the board. so what are your practical ideas? what can we do to bridge that gap? >> i realize it's a big challenge. so at stanford we had an interdisciplinary dialogue around issues around a race and human genetics variation. soviet geneticist and other scholars and the same room trying to define the concept of race. and of course it was a heated discussion because there are diffent ways of approaching it. and i think you can take race just as an example, but you can take this for many concepts that we now use in trying to translate genetic information. and i think, you know, one step is to have interdisciplinary dialogue. but the next that is transparent

to. so revealang the kinds of assumptions thatifferent disciplines are bringing to the table in terms of how they are defining concepts, the genetic ancestry may be ancestry may be very different for the geneticist than a person in the community. and it may mean including that type of transparent language and the studies themselves in defining how they are categorizing and named their research populations. that would be a first step, i think. . .

>> they coexist with them. in fact, you want the general population to see the difference between the offering of cats claw and the offering of more validated, you know, testing that you're going to have to address the existence of these things out there. because they will taint the hole rest of the field. and i know the companies that were tested, many of them still do exist and are offering the same products. it really hasn't gone away. other things have come in more interesting to you. the other thing i think y're presentation brought up for me is how easy it is to send in samples for other people as you did, you said maybe it would be

illegal now. but i do some counseling for a genetic testing company. and routinely when i call up to give people back their results and we always do them through genetic counselors, routinely the person who sent in the sample said oh, it's actually my son or stepild or wife or whatev. and they e not tryin to trick anybody. they don't see it as a problem. but i'm telling you it's very, very easy to do. i just wanted to bring that point out which i think you're talk raisdd sort of. >> thank you. i'd like to return to this int david raised, and it's been illuded to before, let me call them the innocent bystanders or third parties ghere the research

project or social networks occurs, it's the problem ofho protects the third party. if you want to be the full monte, okay. but if it also standing in for , i may be embarrassed by it. can we have the discussion about the implications for others in the family or tribe or group with whom one is genetically affiliated. anyone? >> i ust asked the question. i'm seeking help with it. i think we're seeking help with all the issues that we've raised. jonathan probably can deal with this one. >> well, actually, i remember when my son came back, i think he was in 3rd grade from his jewish day school one day. this is back in the early

'90s, there was a flier directed at his mother attending to the jewish women for breast cancer trial. and i thought that was interesting. that was the way i heard about that study was in his backpack. i wish i had kept a picture of it now for my talks about genetics. a few years later and many people know story, some of the data from those early studies end up on anti-semitic web sites because they increased risk for jewis women. so the point was, you see, they really are different. ther really is something wrong with them. so i just take this as a comment on presentation to make the comment, groups stigmatization is something we're going to have

to think about. beyond the family to the way in whh we think about who we're connected to in various ways. >> let me ask you, group stigmataization, that's a very important to mention of what we're looking at. but turn it around, whatbout the power or right or legitimacy of a groups attempt to pclude an individual's participation in one of the exercises that she described to me. that also is a possibility. >> it's a reality, actually, because there is a moratorium on genetic testing on american indian tribes now because of that. they obviously he different status. but i think, you know, your

question is legitimate in the sense that hould we have group consent? we kind of went about that topic before. let me say -- you say there's a moratorium on the testing of native american tribes. i am aware, what if an individual in a tribe wants to participate in and iists, do you know of any instance t individual has insists and gone so far as an individual saying it's their right or whateve statory or constitutional other basis to participate that that's one of their individual rights, have you heard of any insanses of this or anyone? >> i haven't. >> i could speak to that just a little bit. over the last 10 years, and you'll hear it a little bit this american. coected data throughout the world. we've run into this problem or question or situation whatever you want to call it a number of

times. we do have a number of native americans that are in our data set. they've all beenndividualing opted in essentially. and it's in none of these conditions has it been challenged. i don't know i we've actually gotten to that level where we looked to see whether the tribe could challenge it because they felt that it was up to the individual to make that decision in these cases. >> but this is a much more general question than the genetic single genetic testing estion. i mean we do not have good oversight mechanisms for the benefit if the positive way, but harm is the true way for thinking about group harm of many research projects. and it's absolutely coming up in community-based participatory

research. we don't have good regulations or common rule doesn't address it. this is something that i think we hafe to take on proactively as an issue well beyond the genetics -- >> it's much broader than genetics too. in my area of work, i practice environmental law. the stigma attached to persons living who drunk the water or breathe the air on your s for a generation or so and they feel like they have -- they are tainted by that community experience and then researcher and others want to address their situations. and that leads you to the same problems, and it has nothing to do with genetics. >> i do want to go back to one comment that you made, t, in passing that the uk is now

protecting the ability of parents to enlist their children for genetic testing and that that should -- they should wait or one must wait until and i'm not sure if there is true or not, must wait until they a at an age of consent. and this is a protection that i think we would do well to think about on this side of the atlantic. >> it's not a requirement, it's a view that is out there on consultation. i think -- and in the discussion about the way that other individuals might be affected by a particular genetic test, i'm not familiar with this sort of groups a sect -- aspect of it, but i think it's important to distinguish between the single gene disorders and that is more

than on t part of the testing companies that are famiar with or carrying out. so for single gene disorders, clearly if one individual of t family have tested with this and are familiar, i think we'll have well worked out mechanism of dealing with it. but if one family member in the context is found to have or be a carrier, then that have impact on the family members who may or may not want to know and the protection that is afforded by g.i.n.a.. it's very important for them. i think for the children. so testing single gene disorder, the view that i've hear clinical geneticists saying if there is no treatment, then there is no reason for the child to be

tested until they have the ability to make that consent for themselves. i think geneticists apply the same argument. i view it both as the situations as being completely difrent. d i recd havin to follow that application for a research prect. an institutiona review essentially, for a gene expression microdatabase. and the review board completely misunderstood what we were wanting to store information for. and theyreated this information, which was gene expression data, as being a serious and worrying about the single gene disorder. i think there's a misunderstandingere. i thi as far as the genetic testing for children is concerned, the recommendation or the proposals is the children should be able to make up their

own mind. if we view this as an adventure which is outside, we don't quite know where it's going to end. and routine sequencing might become if it was available for $1,000, then i think what has to say or how are the children going to be treated? and should they -- should their parents be allow to test them? i think i wouldescribe to them the view. actually, the children need, the test need to be deferred until the children can make up their own mind. >> two comments, first is around the testing of minors. i think one of the things that has made genetics unique has been that from one day we did not test minors. we felt very strongly against offering this type of testing to minors, especially for adulonset diseases.

as we start to broaden and think about where the field is going and the ages on onset, i've had a summer of parents and physicians come to me and say, why can't i test my parent. i want to know about these risk factors for type ii diabetes and breast cancer, since there's different risk factors around weight. how do you start to think about a construct for rolling out genetic information across the li cycle? and this is something that we're actively thinking about while maintaining that you cannot test minors for the types of information we're currently testg for. we're actually starting to investigate some sort of ideally public, private collaboration to start to investigate at what point is it relevant and appropriate and what does the informed-consent progress -- process looks like?

i think there are a lot of questions that need to be addressed that we are thinking about that we haven't figured out at this sta. the second thing is getting back to the original question, when you have this information it is genetic, it is inherently going to impact famy members and groups. traditionally around any kind of monogenic testing, they have shared information with family members. while i think this is no different in the sense of how we inherent these different markers and when we're talking about common complex dease, the real difference and struggle that we have is with the general consumer/client pashtunsing and trying to explain that spectrum. cause while we're -- to them it's genetic. and so i think it really is a struggle to try to say well when

we're talking about dozens of markers, you can't figur out the probability on your own. it really does become more of that individual needs to test themselves to understand the impact and having that discussion. >> going back to the question as from the poor genetic counselor about the sourcing of samples. does your company or do other companies address the issue of what we lawyers call the chain of custody issue? do you require a statement? is it sworn? what is the nature of the custodial chain between the dna submitted and the individual who submitted it? is there any constrain on my submitting anyone's dna that i might want to submit? i'm your customer. but the dna might come from elsewhere. >> in terms of the system that

we have set up, and an individual who consent i con setting to have their own dna submitted, and they are representing themselves. i know that not everybody approaches it that way. that's how we have -- >> suppose they are not. how do you know that? >> you don't. and so that's part of you're opting into essentially a legal agreement of terms and conditio and consent. but there really isn't way to prove that. although, we don't believe that it had been ch an issue to date. some people do test privately and use a pseudonym. >> can i ask one comment and make one comment? the comment is akin to others that i've made. my understanding of where the field is is that the importance of clinical even if typing is

deemed essential to making sense ofhese. and that's not a trivial thing. and it usually takes a intermedia who happens to be a health providers who's able to do the kind of accurate detailed assessment with a patie at hand. when the companies talk about collecting and adding information about the contributors of the dna, it seems to be a disconnect there betwn where the academic community sits on this and where the company sit. that's the cment. the question i had is a very fundamental one. i ju don't know the answer to it. so i'll direct it at professor, is there any information about all about the frequency with which an array of snips from me would be found in my kin that is

the code -- cosegregation or what is it? is it likely that the array would be entirely dependent my sister, brother, or children. if you have 1 million snips from all of the array, it will be completely unique to you. the only other person that it could be would be an identical twin. and so it's me -- well, it's at least as powerful on dna forensic fingerprinting and if someone else had access to a small number of your snips, they could identify you as being part of another pool of database. so it raises the question of we have debated about identification of an individual.

and you don't need to know someone's name in order to be able to identify them. i think it is a little risk averse to take that view. because if you don't have their snips in the first place then you couldn't identify them in the database. if you have a small number, you would be able to identify them from a large pool of individuals because they are unique to you. >> the problem with identifying third parties isn't completely new in medicine. doctors have been hearing about other people for a lon time taking a psychiatric history to example. there's nothing known partial to the technical, maybe we shouldn't mystify it. there's a good case to be made that the private companies do have anbligation and do research given the fact that they are doing a lot of data that i'm going to be committed their entities. so clearly we shouldn't go into

the presumption that we shouldn't. in fact, there's a good argument to be made that they should. >> we can't leave this session without knowhng what's happening since 2006 to your report. it was presented presumably to congress and then -- >> well, we certainly have gotten a lot of phone calls and interest from people that are in this field. there's been a documently being done. we haven't done any uate. butside the slots of interest on capitol hill, there was a lot of interest. there was a fda, fdconsumer alert issued on the same day i testified warning consumers about this and educational information. that was really the result of this point. no other legislative initiatives that i'm aware of.

>> what? >> which part. >> why don't you tells us which parts were illegal? >> it's authorized legal activity to ke false statements. >> we do referrals on some of these. we may have referred some of these cases to law enforcement. i'm not aware of anything that happening to anyone. some of these products that were marketed to us, they were multivitamins, and expensive, i'm not sure if it was illegal on the parking on their part especially linking the supplements to the genetic profile. if you take these you reduce your risk of getting cancer and other types of commission. >> the federal trade commission perhaps. >> yes. >> well, over the counter

vitamins -- >> i'm aware that in the uk a very similar situation that rose with a company marketing and link them to genetic testing. and there was no very public campaign by one of the group called gene watch uk, and as a result f that, the company deciding to stop marketing that particular product in the uk. >> they came to the u.s.? [laughter] >> there's been a lot of concern about the genetic testing in where there is regulation like the fda and fdc or may step up and provide resources to be able to go after these companies. so there is something that these companies -- >> yes, last question. >> hi, i have a comment about that. i' a geneticounselor and director of web site called

accessdna.com. we evaluate all the of the companies and allow consumers to review theand rate them. provide information on over 1,000 genetic tests conditions and topics. we are part of that awareness. one of thehings that i hate noticed in the last 6 months because i a charged with evaluating is a sharp drop in the company that is are out there. so where as last year my comparison chart had upwards of 14, 15 different companies that were selling products, i just updated the charge a month ago and i could find four or five still in business. but i'm finding more that are emerging. just a note off of that. >> i didn't catch the company name, though. >> it's accessdna.com.

>> okay. we're going to come back and reconvene at 1:40. lunch is out in the hall. thank you. [inaudible conversations]

>> it's been 70 years since the first shotted fired at a small outpost. yesterday, they gathered in poland to remember the war and the 50 million people that lost their lives. this is an hour and 25 minutes.

[silence] [silence] [silence] [speaking in native tongue]

[silence] >> the i'd.

>> translator: i'd like to welcome everybody. i want to -- and people from united states and poland, including people who have come here. i want to extent to the people, the words today will be uttered, i would like to welcome everybody to the republic of poland. ♪ ♪ [speaking in native tongue] ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ ♪ [speaking in native tongue] ♪ ♪ >> translator: take your seats please. i want to invite the replic of poland to open the ceremony.

>> prime minister, madame counselor,rime minister's presence. speakers, ladies and gentlemen. today comes to the popeth anniversary of the -- 70th anniversary of the outbreak of the wars of wars. the world war ii. we are here at the similar symbol of resistant. several hundred kilometers from here was the first to be

bombed. over 1,000 people were killed. it isnother symbol. a symbol of a total character of this war. of which generatio have past, buthe war continues to demand reflection. and now the question arises what caused it? it is certain that it was totalitarian rule, nationalism, and chauvinism. it is just as sure as it is certain that the order that s in in europe after world world war i, was the first although short-lived attempt to constct

peace on our continent and in the world. the treaty of versailles opened the route to independence for poland, but also hungary, finland, czechoslovakia, and then yugosvia, and listen crow -- croetia, this treaty counted for the sovereignty of nation and the protection of minorities. it turned oup to be surreal for several reasons. but not least for the listen

that totalitarian systems emerged. and the breakthrough occurrence was the emergence of the third reich. the third reich that lived by the ideology of revenge. and they questioned the whole heritage of european civilizations during the year of 1933 to 1938, this totalitarian system was party to attempted treatyies. it was fostered by france and grea britain, and already in

the '30s, poland proposed a preetive strike and this is was not taken up. therefore poland assigned a nonaggression treaty with germany just as it had with the soviet union within. and these treaties cannot be in any way compared to that concluded six years later. the nazi policy led first of all to the austria and later to munich. the powers choice between

disgrace and honor what is war -- they choice war -- disgrace, but they will hav war. and the territoal. it was wrong then, it is wrong today to infringe on a country easter tour. itcountry's territory. it is also something that characteristic for countries with imperillal policies. we have witnessed that last

year. the joining and the partition of the czechlovakia was ours and we admit that. we do not look for excuses eve if such excuses were available. munich calls for conclusions that are viable today; imperillism should not be bowed to not even ne imperilla attituded can b tolerated. of course the outcomes of tolerating imperialism are not always as rapid as though that followed munich. but it's nonetheless teaches us

to think otherwise. the fact of the 23rd of october, 1939, the ribbon pact proceeded the outbreak of world war ii. it was not simply nonaggression pact. it was also a pact that stipulated the division of europe into areas of influence. i want to reiterate what i said this morning. poland did receive the proposal of joining the anti-comment pact and there was a proposal for

pond to join a march to the east. but poland renounced that proposal and did not join third party as hearing to its treaties . the war that broke out led to defeat there was no other possible outcome. this was followed by the trac occupation, expectally tragic, not only in poland, 5.5 to 5.8 million citizens of poland are both polish and jewish nationality were killed during that war. they were the victims of this war just as 50 million people all over the world.

the holocaust was a crime that was committed during that war. but before the outbreak of war between germany and the soviet union other crimes were committed. and that also calls for reflection. not so much because of facts which are mostly known today, but the causes shod be discussioned. why several dozens of thousands of officers of polish army and police were sentenced to death. this was a token of revenge for 1920 for the fact that poland withstood the aggression of

1920. it could be claimed that it is communism that is to blame, no, this time it was chauvinism. no, at that sge, it would have the characteristic trait and the modern of the pact was not concluded in good faith. either party wanted toutfox the other. they thought the germans would bleed out fighting the french and british and then fall easy play tohe soviet union while hitlerounted on a quick defeat in the west with the east for the time being. but either side made a mistake.

and the war that ensued caused many, many russians, ukrainians, georgians, hazards to fall. and we have to bow before them as they were heroic, the nazi system was defeated. but poland did not regrain full sovereignty. the iron curtain fl over europe. and on the other side of that curtain, not on the se that we were on, on the other side aperiod of reflection emerged. and that was a fruitful reflection which led to the

dividing and assigning of the north atlantic treaty, a treaty that over the 60 years of existence has become the export of stability freedom and known also as demracy. it turned out to be a very ccessful experiment. it must, hower, be remembered that treatyies require to observe the stipulations. poland is an adherence and so is germany and our countries to stick to their commitments. this treaty is and will remain very important. but the founding fathers of the europe that unites in this day

and age did not liv only by a defensive pact. they also founded what is today known as the european union. and this maybe an even more interesting experiment in the history of mankind that is so far been tremendously successful. within this community the balance of power has been superseded by operations. what were the prereck -- prerequisites of that request, fit and fore most of the values of freedom,emocracy, and pluralism.

the next prerequisite was the resending of imperial greed and influence. without this, the united europe would be unthinkable. and here with 27 members in the future possibility more memr states, we he a new quality. this new quality should also be accessible to others. however, under one condition, that they accept this system of values. a system of values which does not allow the going back to moi

once was. a system where equality is the main principal. this requires broad multilateral operation and also it requires democracy, not only in the relations even the state and the citizen, but also between states. if this happens, then we could say that following the unimaginable crimes of the years 1939 to 1945, this was unimaginable tragedy that taught us a lesson, and that we have learned this lesson to all conclusions.

hopefully we are going to progress living by the truth, living by values, living by a truth that maybe difficult or painful. but a truth that needs to be accepted and confessed by the winners and the defeated. those who have been defeated are not the only ones who are to confess. also the winners should do so. according to christians confession does not humiate, it liberates and makes us free, provided it is universal. we've have the right entitlement to access truth, to access the

truth about tragic occurrences in our history. and we can never renounce that right. and i deeply believe that the whole of europe is going down that path. the path leading to pluralism, freedom, democracy, and truth even if that truth seems to be ha to take. because as i said, we are able to confess to our own sins. we need to be able to do so and not to compare the order to kill 30,000 and the death of people due to an epidemic.

this is a way that we need to follow, that is only by us, but the whole of europe. thank you. >> now i would like to ask the president of the european union to take the floor. >> translator: the prime minister of poland, minister, members of parliament, ladies and gentlemen, this is an event. on the third of september, 1939, the nightmare of europe and the world started with the attack on

poland. here app handful of soldiers resisted very heroic the nazi regime. it stood in the defense of the freedom and honor of europe. it was here for the first time that nazi's faced the upper arms of resistance. it was here that people fought against the nazi regime from the first to the last state of the war. today as the president of the european parliament, i want to say very strongly we shall never forget as we shall never let others forget. historicemembrance cannot be found away to the exhibition to the museu because it's importance to remember the people of the war. the community of remember brans

for us and both who were in power. this remembrance is the power that was made in 1949. the nazi regime collapsed. but it was not the end for the european nations. only half of the continent was able to breathe freely. the courage of the citizens in 1953 was required. the people in 1956 that greated the upheaval in prague and then polish coastline in 1970 and then the solidarity moment was could not be distraught that our

continent could take a breath again. th changes in the public union helped. in 2008, the european parliament men -- men rated the tour and the 23rd of august the anniversary. and the european day of the remembrance of the nazis. murder, and the captivity and enslavement of are the crimes and the crimes against humanity. the wars of the members of the european parliament from one year ago. the terrible experience of the war gave with the idea to the founding fathers to claim they were not a hero. this is not the incident that the first of the european

community was created 60 years ago. with the most important commodity, which was coal at the that time. the production will make the war not only be unthinkable, but into something which doesn't pay, unquote. for many years, since the first community, we were trying to break down walls which have remained. and we must never allowed them to be built again. we have to do this by using energy commodity. we cannot allow the htoric thoughts and i would le to remember the work. on the talks of the free, talks which have given something that has missed something.

with the respect for the freedom, we have to follow into the foot steps of the man, strengthening our european solidarity. the foundations of solidarities caneeuated by the concrete action upon which we can defense ourself. we also have to step back for democracy and human rights. the european union is the great value in itself, in the global world, and it's required for the reliable process with the corporation of the united states and other countries. today we are here together in gap task and that's that great value in itself. i want to may tribute to those who are fighting in the name of

treason. we europeans shall remember. we shall build, we shall build europe which was worth your great sacrifice. thank you. [applause] [speaking in native tongue] translator: let us now hear the roll of honor. ♪ ♪ >> translator: we gather here on the 70th anniversary of t break out of the sond world

war, the most terrible of the 20th century. we pay tribute to all its victims. may they be remembered forever.

[gunshots being fired] ♪ ♪ ♪

>> translator:lease take your seat. now i would like to ask prime minister of the republic of poland, to take the floor. >> translator: why? why here? why now? on the september a some other

date in some other place. the leaders of europe have gathered. why on the first of september? why do we see here leaders of poland from the previous years? why here in gdanskn the first of september to remember the people? the answer is what's in it. on the 1st of september, there was a tragedy in the htory of mankind that started. and the sign and the traces of

the tragedy and the symbols of the tragedy that can be seen here everywhere where we can look here. for example, this place, the first soldier victims of the nazi invasion of poland. exactly here in this place. but is it enough to look a little bit further to see the barbed wire of the concentration camp. there were so many concentrations camped created in the war against humanity and mankind. it was the camp of stutthof that those who were killed, russians, jews, and germans were killed.

if we looked in the other direction, also very close from this pla, we will be able to see a forest not far from a small village. it was there in the first week of the war, thousands of people were gathered, polish teachers, engineers, but also soldiers. lots of people who were innocent. and they were shut down in many places here and in any forests the secret was hidden. in war has its projects and his

-- here germans and the sign of swastika of the disabled, mentally disabled, and they shoved them down here in the forest. the union of the town of hundreds of thousands of were moved away from their homes in the first week of the war. but if we look further we can see the semitriof rusan soldiers. thousands of young people lost their lives here in early spring of 1945. :

>> translator: the remembrance is our common responsibility, so make sure thasuch a tragedy never happens again. but gdansk is certainly also a place of hope here amongst many eminent foes i can take lech walesa, lech walesa was a living testimony of hope, of the degree of solidarity, and many other values upon which new europe was founded. the fact that it was here that the solidarity movement was established, but also that europe was established as a reduction ofhe war and all those in the name of which the war broke out, it is possible only thanks to the fact that we remember the war and the values we believe again so that such a war never happened again. those are the simplest values.

however, here in gdansk on the first of september, everybody from moscow to rome, from london to paris to warsaw, from stockholm to slovenia, balkans, from the baltic states to the united states, everybody, without exception wmust say today that we share the values, and that those guys will protect us from the tragedy that freedom must be always better than slavery. that democracy is always better than dictatorship. that truth is better from lies. that love is better than hatred. that respect is better than contempt. and that trust is better than mistrusts.

and finally, that solidarity is better than. i do notnow a single person who would be sitting here in the audience, your countrymen, tear gas, who share these valuesf on these guys we found that europe and upon these guys we have to find the orr of security that would not come only the united europe but the whole continent including ukraine, belarus. we are here so that we could give ttimony that in spite of the tragedies of history, in spite of the tragedy of our tion has suffered woogie able to have action for the sake of peace and to increase trust and confidence. otherwise such a meeting would never make any sense. i want to say the different interpretations of hisri are allowed.

everybody have their own remembrance, however the facts which we sometimes interpret differently are of one nature. we want to remember the facts in order -- not in order to use history against others, but to use history to become the foundation of peace that we want the truth about this event to become the foundation the peac today, we remember the horrible path of the jewish nation, the millions of those who lost their lives and those who were murdered. we remember what was destroyed in 90%, here, leningrad, we remember warsaw particularly. we also remember the words which were perhaps the symbolic beginning of the most tragic of force. adolf hitler, on the eve of on the 22nd of august, in a meeting wi his generals, said

that something that was actually the essence of the war, the essence of the nightmare. he said, if you a a winner, nobody will settle you down from the lies you say. he said, zero tolerance and understanding for the week. he said that only the strong are right. in the order in which we wt to go together, there is no room for such ideas. we have built and we want to continue building in europe and in the world the order where it is not the strong that is right, but the one that is right is right there but it is not the winner that says it is in his interest, i guess, but everybody without exception asserting for the truth.

if we want to build the order of security together, we have to reject the temptation of the domination of the strong over the weak. we want to believe in the principle which founded as the united europe where there is no room for content to the weak are only hate is weaker. i want to say at the end that there would be no point in organizing this assembly so important for europeans if it wasn't for my and our common belief that salute which we have just heard here in westerplatte will be repeated and will be heard only as the salute of order. yet we are here in order to act against difficult history and

temptations that we are here to build trust and confidence. we are here to for thousands of years have been presented here in westerplatte. never again, or. thank you. [applause] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we invite now is angela merkel, the chancellor of the federal republic of germany. ♪ [saking in native tongue] [inaudible conversations] mr. president, prime minister, colleagues, excellencies, ladies and gentlemen. today, 70 years ago, the most tragic chapter in the history of europe was ushered in by the

german attack against poland. the war unleashed by germany brought immeasurable suffering over many people. it brought years of deprivation of rights, of humiliation, and the destruction. the country in its hisry as poland. and particularly during those dark times about which we talk here today, the country was vastated. cities and villages were destroyed there and the capital, after the uprising had been crushed in 1944, there was hardly any building left that was not in ruins. lawlessness and violence characterized daily life, and hardly any polish family was spared this experience. here at westerplatte, i as a german chancellor, remember the fate of all poles on whom untold suffering was inflicted

under the criminal rm occupation here the horrors of the 20th ctury culminated in the holocaust. the systematic persecution and murder of the jews' of your. i remember the 6 million jews and all those who died a cruel death in german concentration and extermination camps. and i remember the many millions who lost their lives in fighting and resisting germany. i remember all those innocent people who died of hunger, cold, and disease. through the violence o war and its consequences. i remember the 60 million people who lost their lives in a war unleashed by germany. words cannot adequately describe the suffering inflicted through this war and the holocaust. i bow my head before the

victims. we all know the horrors of the second world war cannot be made undone. the scars shall remain forever visible. to shape the future and the awareness of our everlasting responsibility, this is our mission. it is in this spirit that europe has changed from a continent of terror and violence into a continent of freedom and peace. that this was possible is nothing short of a miracle. wheat germ and shall never forget and have never forgotten germany's partners in east and west paid to the way for reconciliation. you have rched out to us germans, stretching out a hand in the spirit of reconciliation. and we grasp it with gratitude. indeed amah it is truly a

miracle that this year we not only remember the dark chapter, the advance of european history 70 years ago, that we need to remind ourselves of. it is a miracle that we may also remember those happy days 20 years ago which brought us the fall of the berlin wall, the reunification of germany, and european unification. for eupe's quest for freedom was only truly fulfilled onc the iron curtain came down. in the tradition of poland, people everywhere bravely pushed open the gates to freedom. we germans shall never forget this. we shall not forget the role of our friends in poland, hungary, anthen czechoslovakia, the role of gorbachev and our western partners and allies, and we shall not forget the force of moral suasion and truth that no one embodied as convincingly and cdibly as pope john paul ii.

this is why it was particularly incumbent upon germany to stand by poland side and by the side of the epicenter and eastern european countries when they decided to becommembers of the european union and data. indeed, it is truly a miracle a great blessing that today, we europeans believe in peace and freedom. and there's hardly anything that better symbolizes the difference in 1939 than the close cooperation based on mutual trust between germany and poland, and the many friendly relations between our countries. it is the underlying strength of european unification and germany's friendship with its neighbors that we decided to face up to our history. eight recent declaration commemorating today's event of the german polish bishops conference put it so operably

quote, together do we need to look into the future. toward which we wish to go, without forgettinghe hester truth in all its aspects nor ever belittling it. end of quote. went to this day, my country also remembers the fate of all those germans who lost their homes as a consequence of the war, we invariably do so in exactlthe spirit described by the bishops. we do in the awareness of the responsibility of germany, which was there at the very beginning of the war that happened. we do it without ever thinking of rewriting anything that ever points to the everlasting responsibility of germany. this will never happen. and it is exactly in this spirit i have come here today, 70 years later, to gdansk to this long-suffering, now however beautifully restored

city. mr. president, prime minister, i am deeply moved that you have invited me iny capacity as german chancellor to this commemorative ceremony here today. i see this as a sign of our good neighborly relations, based on mutual trust, our close partnership and our true friendship between our countries, between the people of germany and poland, and for this i am truly grateful to you. [applause] [speaking native tongue] >> translator: i would le to ask prime minister of the russian federation, mr. vladimir putin. ♪

[speaking in native tongue] >> translator: mr.rime minister, distinguished ladies and gentlemen, colleagues, friends, we representing different countries have gathered here today in gdansk where the first troubles of the most bloody and violent and dangerous war in the history of humankind took place. we have gathered to pay tribute for the winners and also to defend our heritage before the millions of veterans of the perished soldiers and officers of the anti-hitler coalition, and militants of resistance, innont inhabitants, women, kids, persons who died at the hands of torture in the concentration camps.

people of different nationalities, political creeds and use. people who are not spared either catastrophe. the victory in the fight against nazis has been achieved with a humongous price. indeed, it irreparable, sacrifice. hole before liberation of gdansk over 53000 soldiers and officers of their red army gave their life. 600,000 of my compatriots buried in the polish land. and t of 50 millioof the people perished during the second world war, over half, over half of them were citizens of the ussr. just think about this humongous

figures. our moral duty, the duty of all peoples to dearly cherish the memory of the eternal meaning of the great value of allies and dramatic now history, recalling the first day of the war, we nattrally should reflect on what prompted the world. was a political brought with idea of impeding the potential aggressor attempt t ensure one security at the account of the security of others, neighbors primarily. the back door intrigues blots. the second world war started not at once, its roots and i agree with the speaker who mentioned this in the deficient at the versailles treaty, which

not only registed the defeat, but also national humility of germany in the wake of the world war i. which were used by nazi's coming to office in the mid '30s. it was worthwhile mentioning the fact that to ensure a reliable sysf europe, then was not possible. while analyzing dramatic event on the verge of the world war ii, we mt exert right lesson to do that, we need to forke political stewards of the past stigmas and distortions o history, or keeping silent regarding certain effects. it is important to understand that any cooperation wh extremist, and while talking about world war ii, fascists and their competence, no matter what might be found, will be

found in tragedy. basically, this is not at all any cooperation, but a plot with a view to addressing one's proble at the account of others. so therefore, one needs to admit that all the attempts made since 1934 to 1939, to appease nazis including various agreements with them were from the moral point of view unacceptable. and found a practical perspective, political perspective, senseless, harmful and dangerous. and the combination of allf these acts write about this tragedy, the beginning of the world war ii, and naturally we need to admit such mistakes. our country hasone so. the russian federation parliament has condemned, and

we are in the right to expect that in other countries also which made a deal with the nazis, should do the same. and not only at the level of the political statement of the leaders, but at the level of the political decisions to be adopted. naturally, we need to think about the victims. without deep understanding of all that occurred, it will not be possible for us to build a really secure world to eradicate the legacy of the co war and to remove artificial dividing lines. i would like to point out that my country, not only admit the errors and the tragedies involved in the past, that makes practical contributions in the building of the world and new world othe new principles thanks to the position of my country, would be possible to remove and

virtual berlin wall and to set up prerequisites to build new europe without divisive lines. we need to cure the society of malaise of race hatred, mutual distrust built on cynical distortion of history. the modern civilized policy should be based on common moral and universal figure principles. in this manner we can't overturn the tragic page of the history of world war ii for the sake of the memory of the terrorists and the future of our children. the example of how we can treat such wds of the past, and i'm sure it can be served as a basis of the partner relation between russia and germany today, and russia which have been built over the recent years, and making peace and generous of our people were

evolve historic scoring and some of those scores. and we sincerely want that russian poland relationship also freed from the excesses from the past, should be built on the relations and cooperation that is for being worthy of these two great european nations. in conclusion, i would like to address the main participant in germany. these are the comrades you all defended, stalingrad, who disembarked in italy and normandy, liberated warsaw terrace, berlin, and prague. it is eternal. it will always be kept in our hearts. it will be a genuine benchmark of courage, and nobility, and on her. thank you for your kind attention.

[applause] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: now i would like to invite prime minister of the french republic, mr. francois fillon. ♪ [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: is your president, prime minister, ladies and gentlemen, your strength lies in its memory, its culture and moral unity, its shared history. and in gdansk, the second world war started on the first of september, 1939. poland went through great sacrifice and pain.

but it bought for the honor of europe as a whole, as it did again in 1980 under the banner of solidarity. a deep emotion brings us together here today. a complex emotion made up of grief, pride, remorre, admiraon and hope. it reflects e changing destiny of a continent driven by war and then at peace, divided and then united. the peninsula was one of the first cries were heard in the terrible conflict that would become the bloodiest known to mankind. the 200 polish soldiers of

westerplatte responded to the showing of an enemy battleship by giving us a magnificent lesson and the faith and heroism that our country has upheld in the face of the cruelty of war and the harshness of for more than two centuries. from the very first hour of the war, polish resistant road up and proved more lasting than the concrete block houses. a few weeks later, the polish army was defeated. nine months later, general de gaulle saw france in turn overrun by the enemies mechanical force striking on lans and from the@@ air. in this bloodbath, history revived the age-old solidarity between france and poland, our two countries have always fought side-by-side for their freedom and for that of europe. on the 20 december, 19, the polish government in exile set

up its headquarters in france where the gender raised a free polish army of more than 80000 men before the french defeain june, 1944 forced m to do in the. thpolish government in exile arrived in london in the english capital on the 18th of june, 1940, the veryame day when general de gaulle broadcasting on radio london declared no matter what happens, the flame of frch resistant but not be extinguished, and it will not be asked to english. for six years, our two countries, the freed loving men and women ofur country fought against barbarity,

french coalition franco polish soldiers, and put their lives on the line. the volunteers risk their lives at monte cassino which fell to them on the 18th of may, 1944. the general's first armored division took part in heroic fighting on the coast of normandy. i would like to pay heartfelt homage to the people, to the polish people and therefore to the men and women who risk everything in the secret army, the home arm in the resistance in the churches and schools, in clandestine universities in order to accomplish what honor dictated. i am thinking of those who

overcame indescribable despair, and took part in the warsaw ghetto uprising and the warsaw uprising. i am thinking of leaving polish figures, the heroes of the jewish community and the righteous among the nation who founded them, the jewish combat organization with his comrades 66 years ago, irena sendler who saved more than 2000 jewish chdren. and a 17 year-old catholic student who became the main interpreter of the countries moral and intellectual imperatives. we shall not forget the likes of their actions shared in a time of darkness. and we would like to talk of

the future under their auspices today. ladies and gentlemen, the european ideal of peace has been nursed by the most prominent minds of the past centuries and is now embodied in our european institutions. after the war, a renewed germany played a major role in creating these institutions. and russia, which has now been transformed, is in dialogue with them. the foundation of it as the european union is a sharp political determination. it's a rampant are unchanging values, therefore both of which respect for national sovereignty, human dignity, and individual rights and the absolute rejection of any

discrimination based on race, gender gender, origin, or beef. for centuries, gdansk as part of the lake symbolize everything that could be with the enthusiasm generated b solid data did, and the spiritual strength of lech walesa, it became for our civil liberties. this i where several of the innermost convictions that enable us to live and work together were born. today, we find ourselves not on the outskirts of europe,ut in its hearts. envy major european country, and the election of the president of the european parliament has crowned poland

exemplaby integration into europe. we now face a number ofhared challenges together, such as the economic crisis, global warming, promoting the technologies of the future, health security, energy, security, the fight against terrorism, and control of migratory flows. the european union's can meet these challenges provided that its numbers have the political will to implent the solutions. i know how ambition a contribution can make, with its memories of wars and suffering, poland should become with our support and friendship, a place where the future is in good. in the very heart of gdansk, across from the old docks,

there is a vacant piece of land where poland can create and build. this means, ladies and gentlemen, that's the tragedy that started on this very spot 70 years ago. so not only find it in, it will also find its answer. [applause] [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: we now invite prime minister yulia tymoshenko to speak. ♪ [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: dear mr. president, prime minister, do president of the european

parliament, your excellency's, ladies and gentlemen. we meet today at a place of battle that also a place of liberty. 70 years ago, polish men and women defended here at westerplatte their nation and their cotry. from here, darkness fell across europe. free nations found themselves in slavery. ukrainians, jews, poles, russian, russian, belarusian, and many other nations cried out from the concentration camps. holocaust was gaining strength. millions prayed for a liberation from despair. over 7 million ukrainians joined the war, every second of th never came back home.

every second of those who survived remained wounded and disabled. aland all, at the front and in the concentration camps and inve putative, almost 10 million of my people died. together with the other invasions, represented here today, we have paid an extremely high price, but we have been able to overcome it and not only to overcome it, we have one. you can close your eyes to reality, but you cannot close your eyes to memories. so it is right and proper that we meet here where europe's enslavement began and its liberation, complete liberation took place.

few of those who survived the battles and poland are with us today as a memory of their courage, lives on in all of us. as well as the memory about all those who perished. but today, many of their sons and daughters of poland, the men and women who completed their struggle, they are with us here today. and their courage is also our inspiration. today, i their memory, we are marking not so much the beginning of war, but rather the triumph liberty. we ream the unity of the people who fought the war of liberation, who came to join hands in an unbreakable bond of peac with those who were once the other de of the front here at it under this unity that can make us invincible.

today, this unity continues to keep us free. our history, since those dark days has shown, that countries that find themselves by choices they make. those who endured the invasion of occupation and feet, could be filled with hatred and desire for revenge. in the years after 1945, all of europe could have moved in that direction but recrimination and rage and escalation, tension. but europe started looking for solidarity. and a ndful of nations in forging the european union out of the ruins of war. we all asked as they did make a bold effort to understand and comprehend one another, to replace violence and suspicion with compassion and a sense of

our shared destiny. a favorite poet of mine once wrote even in our sleep pain, which cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the hearts until in our own despair against our will, comes wisdom through the grace of god. 70 years of painful memories haven't brought us, drop by drop, the wisdom to know that what we need here, in the world, is not division. what we need is not hatred, it's not violence and lawlessness. a rather generosity and wisdom and compassion toward one another. and a feeling of justice toward those who suffer. and so as we remember those who sacrificed their lives of

liberty, i ask that we pray for the understanding and compassion of which i just spoke. the victories over tyranny, did not mark the end of hate. they did not bring an end to lawlessness. gdansk, poland, areow part of a free and united europe. this is what you poles have chosen. this is what you chose to make of that. let me ask you, as i close, to ask all of us to look beyond the words of today, to the >> first the bengals had to weight, then they have to worry about his weight. adam smith broke his foot. had he been in playing shape,

one would wonder if that could have happened. cincinnati is concerned about the tackle so much so there's a weight clause in his deal. can you explain that? >> what happened here is that andre smith showed up on sunday morning to sign his contract and he weighed 364 pounds. 30 more than his regular playing weight, and at that point the two sides discussed a performance, and the bengals were adamant about putting a weight loss clause in his contract. now he must be at 350-pounds or less and be active for the game or the bengals have the right to fine him 50% of the regular game checks. so there are 17 game checkness the nfl. and the bengals could take away 50% of them. it's a with issue and that's want to keep him from ballooning. he came in on sunday, he practiced for a few days, and even though the suffered a foot injury he has dropped his weight

from 364 to 35 -- 35 8. >> carson paler in still dealing with an ankle injury following his lost season. what is his status. >> he has been at practice. stood behind center. he has avoided pass rushers. the bengals are gold -- going to hold him out but he is ready to go. there's no questions he will be out there against the broncos in the regular season opener. he has gone through all he did last year with the elbow probable -- problems he is ready to play. >> get to the headliner. the jets are taking a serious look at brandon marshall, and if the broncos are willing to trade him, what its denver's thinking? >> well, think they're willing to listen to offers from other

teams but they're not going to deal him unless they get an offer they want, and that offer would have to be a player that can contribute this year and a pick for next year. basically if the broncos wait until the end of the season they can get picks and they would have his services this season. so in order to trade him right now they need something to help this season, and they're not going to make a trade unless the get that. and i don't even think right now the jets are willing to go there. so it becomes a moot point. the bottom line is it's not happening unless the jets meet the broncos' asking price and i don't think they well. >> let's get to the status of kyle orton, who dislocated his index finger on his throwing hand. what is his status? >> my understanding is that orton will be sufficiently recovered to play. it is a painful injury and we

don't know how much it will affect him if he is indeed out there against the bengals. but the feeling in the building is that he will be sufficiently recovered to play against the bengals. they also have their backup quarterback chris sims nursing a high average sprain. and the feeling also is that he will be back. so they could have orton and sims back. >> let's good to one of the quarterback stories. the detroit quarterback paved the way for matthew stafford to be the choice for starter. culpepper had an accident in his home that required eight stitches in his foot. >> i don't think the injury impacts them all that much. again, dante culpepper doesn't look like he is going play in the preseason finale against the bills. matthew stafford will start, get 25 snaps, and you have to think and figure if matthew stafford plays well tomorrow night

against the bills, ultimately he will win the starting job. culpepper has experience poise, seasoned, place good football. but the lions made a heavy investment in stafford, and given the choice, they would like for him to become the starter. he has the chance if he plays will against the bills in one final showing. >> see if that's the direction they do go. let's get to michael vick. when we see him again is up to the league, and how the eagles handle him, what are their openings? >> basically, the eagles must make a decision by 4:00 p.m. on saturday when they trim their roster from 75 to 53 players, and there are two options hereafter. if they decide to keep michael vick on their active roster, that will allow him to practice but not play in games but ties up a roster spot.

however, if they put him on the reserve suspended list, he can't practice until reinstated by the commissioner, and at that point the eagles would activate him and he is eligible to practice. if he is on the injured reserve list, he can't practice. it was a being decision for michael vick and the eagles. >> do they have any idea when the league will render -- how long the suspension will be? >> i think the feeling is it will be sooner rather than later. the commissioner said he would make a ruling by the sixth week, and i don't think anybody expected it will go hat long. however nobody has any clearcut idea when he could make a decision. >> thank you, adam. >> and coming up, is it about the buy-out or the team he would have to go to? questions raised over the

motivation of ricky rubio's decision to stay home. >> and up next. scott kazmir put the angels over the top. the top. does brad penny have anythinggr. but put a ring of cheese in the crust and...jackpot! courtside...great. in between them... jackpot! pizza night...great. stuff crust pan pizza night...jackpot!

(announcer) introducing pizza hut's new stuffed crust pan pizza. your favorite pan pizza with a jacot of awesome meed cheese in the crust. get a large one toppinfor just $10.99. it's my w favorite pizza. jackpot!

♪ >> got him. another changeup. hamels has struck out four

consecutive batters. >> popup. cole hamels has thrown this fourth career shutout. the left-hand sider is back. >> the pitch to holliday, swing and a long one. left center field. there she goes. it's a goner. a three-run homer. >> and there's another strike. 3-2. this is only strike two. >> josh hamilton. hamilton another one. gone again. he's back. >> wasn't all bad for posada. hit two home runs last night, even though he forgot the strike count. got three rbis. the yankees beat the orioles. josh ham continue, third career

multihome run game. and the champs got cole hamels. fourth career shutout. struck out nine. the phillies got by the giants 1-0. "baseball tonight" takes their three swings. >> starting to see a little separation, at least it appears, between teams like the cardinals and the national league central and the phillies in the east, and in me american league, the yankees look great, and now you're starting to get the sense the red sox are beginning to sort of establish their dominance. the have a big game on wednesday. >> starting at tropicana field and the rays have a must-win. they're facing josh beckett who has given up 12 home runs in his last three starts. facing matt garza. that's going to be a really good pitching matchup. and one that the rays have to win. second thing we will be looking for is scott kazmir's debut with the angels. if he can get the flier for

strike, he can help them down the stretch. he will be facing felix her honor and the -- hernandez and the mariners, and brad penny debuts as a giant. a 5.81 e.r.a. as a member of the red sox. he will be much more comfortable returning to the national league. faith the -- facing the phillies will be no picnic. >> kazmir and hernandez. hall 'em was unbelievable. we see you wednesday, 1:00 a.m., 10:00 p.m. pacific. >> it wasn't that he couldn't go to minnesota. it's that he doesn't want to, not yet at least. ricky rubio walked out of a deal that would have extricated him.

here's his reasoning: >> the can numbers have their coal tender locked in for their next 12 seasons. he will stay through the 2020 season. the total package worth $64 million. at that point he will be 4 # years old. he is the second goalie to sign a double-digit year contract as he signs a 12-year extension with the canucks. >> keeping you current here on "espnews" joe mcknight has won the running back competition at usc. he has been named the starter. it isn't just his running

ability. pete carroll says, quote, he has a wider spectrum. he can run, averaging over seven yards a carry last season. >> the big ten considers a bowl game at yankee stadium. cowboys wide receiver roy williams returns to practice on tuesday. and how about this. the motor city bowl has been renamed the little caesar's pizza bowl. >> coming up, the jets are snooping around to see if denver is willing to move brandon marshall. up next we develop into how serious that it. and expectations outside of south bend may not match expectations in notre dame. we look into what happens in the future.

. >> test

>> college football overdrive is back. every saturday 3 to 8 eastern we take you live to the most exciting games across the country and offer expert analysis. our kickoff is september 5th on espnews. >> ♪ ♪

♪ >> do you want to be a football coach. try living in charlie weis's world where it's bcs or bust for a team that went 10 and 15 the last 2 years. want to be a gm. try living in kenny williams's world where going from buyers to sellers can happen in the blink of an eye. welcome to espnews. i am bram weinstein. we are more than satisfied to live vicariously through them. in need of an offensivive boost the jets are monitoring the crash and burn relationship between denver and brandon marshall. maybe it's not worth risking his arm. jake peavy may stay in rehab as the white sox take a tumble. and a bum ankle cost carson palmer the bulk of the pre-season but the bengals are banking on their starter when the games count. ♪

♪ úú÷÷ it is a glorious day for base all at san diego, california. black at that. -- look at that. blue skies, temperature expected to go up to 81 this afternoon at petco park. yes, there are tickets available, incidentally, in case you want to take that 3:55 nonstop to san talladega. johnny hol day along with phil wood as the intelsat wrap-up the trip against the padres san diego has taken the first two and the intelsat bats in the deep breeze these days. but i think, phil, a lot of credit has to be given to san

diego's defense. >> phil: they can catch the ball. twice last night ryan zimmerman got robbed here. will venable, the son of mack, and tony gwyn jr., also the offspring of obviously a great player. fighting catch, picks it up off the ground. obviously opportunities were there last night to score more than one run. intelsat just couldn't get the ball down. >> the slide continues. a five game losing streak. the nationals have won what? 12 of their last 15 ballgames. in this look at the average, down to .214 '313. they scored one run each of the last three games. > >> phil: the sad part is they have pitched so well, outside of the road trip. they cannot seem to come up with hits. >> johnny: and ryan zimmerman admits, do you have give the padres some credit. >> we have faced some good

pitching. we have hit some good balls, too. it is one of those times where it seems like everything we hit gets caught and you have to give their guys credit, too. obviously st. louis has good pitching and they have some good arms here. it is tough, but you have to keep battling through it and go out and keep playing. >> johnny: they can't get more than one run a ballgame. how do you get the bats going? >> phil: you can shake up the lineup a little bit. when you get a look at the intelsat's lineup today, there are some off the beaten path names in it, in terms of who is playing outfield, who is getting to start today against kevin correia. you do what do you have do to get people more focused. this is one of those road trips because they had that 8-game winning streak earlier in august and they have played pretty well after that, i think they thought they had turned the corner but clearly, they have not.

again, it is a matter of the offense being in sync with the pitching and the defense. the offense, on this trip, has been pretty much nonexistent. >> johnny: young guys have been given opportunities to play with the ball and one of those guys has been brought up from syracuse, justin maxwell. it is beautiful san diego and you and i are both happy justin's with the ball club. he is a maryland guy and you had a chance to visit with justin, byron? >> i do. good to see you again. justin maxwell got to start for the first time since may with the washington nationals and with his dad in the navy station in san diego at one point, turns out this city is pretty special to justin. >> i like the san diego area and the ballpark is pretty nice. it was good to get out there again. >> reporter: you were patient at the plate. got a couple of fly outs, got pretty close? >> yeah i felt good. i tried to put the ball in play. i can't control much more than

that. that was maya prep. just try to hit it hard and look forward to today's action. >> reporter: when you are looking for chances to get back to back starts, that is going to be big with you. >> yeah i never knew what to expect earlier in the year. hopefully i'll get playing time and be ready for what coach riggleman and the other staff has for me. >> reporter: got a lot of stolen bases, you felt more comfortable at the plate and. >> yeah. all year long, our hitting coach, darnell coles and i, trying to find something that i can come out here and be consistent every day. this last month of august, i tried to put the ball in play every day you know and let my speed kind of get on base and help the team win. >> reporter: stolen bases, you have 35 of those. it seems that jim riggleman is much more aggressive, as well. so it feels like you can get in motion once you get on base

here with the intelsat? >> once i get on first base, i like to go. i remember before i didn't have the green light, so i would get over to first base and feel like i had concrete on my feet. but it is fun to run. when you get on base, it gives the batter some more pitches because they throw a lot more fast balls when they know somebody can run is on base. i like getting on, helping the team out. >> reporter: rick eckstein is working with you as well. trying to get the ball, spray it everywhere? >> i just try to get the barrel out there. good things can happen once that happens. shortening my swing, that is the main thing and consistently square up the ball that is another thing. >> reporter: serious question. maryland at california saturday. unbelievably, california is favored by 21 points. >> well see, it is that long trip. cal came over to maryland last year and they lost. i think coach is going to have the troops ready for this trip.

i'm going with the terms on this -- with the terrapins on this one. update from the field here. he was working with rick eckstein. so was her a padilla and change things the way things have gone offensive. thank you very much. wear that sunscreen out there, buddy. fourth round draft pick out of maryland. nationals minor league player of the year and no errors, 41 chances when he has played at the big level al-zawahiri. >> phil: no one questions his ability to play the outfield. he has terrific foot speed, sees the ball in the air, gets to the spot, makes the catch. the catch he made against baltimore earlier, a classic. we'll watch that video for a long long time. the question about justin is his ability to swing the bat and make contact. he has a big swing. from probably the mid-point of the season on, they worked with

him at syracuse to put the ball in play more, take advantage of his foot speed. certainly he has power. one of the first things he did when they called him up a few years ago was hit a grand sham homerun. it can only go downhill. they certainly see the potential here. right now though, if you recall when we spoke to justin the other day, he still sees himself as a centerfielder. if nyjer morgan is healthy he is the centerfielder. i suspect they are looking at justin as a fourth or fifth outfield. >> he. >> johnny: he has great acceleration, good i think instincts, cut down on the swing, getting batting back in sync. >> phil: justin, again is young enough to work that out. >> johnny: it will happen if you lobby for it. we'll take a break and continue

more. this is intelsat extra pregame brought to you on masn brought to you by voyager vice son wireless and j.d. martin had a heck of an effort last night. we'll talk about it. ♪

♪ i always feel like (announcer) it's right here, it's easy... ♪ somebody's watching me. ...it's the money you could be saving with geico. ♪ who's watching? ♪ tell me who's watching. (muffled music) (announcer) it's right here, it's easy... ♪ i always feel like somebody's watching me. ♪ it's the money you could be saving with geico. there are car radios... and then there is the voice-recognizing, text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation.

introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one. >> i physically felt like i was throwing strikes and things. i messed up on the seventh it cost the homerun. the air on the bunt, it was scoring a run. the error on the bunt. >> j.d. martin started last night against the padres in that 4-1 loss .10 4 pitches. 63 strikes. opponents hitting only .208 against him. >> phil: that is a remarkable number, too. the veteran pitching coaches will tell you if you get ahead in the counsel you stay ahead and after that you use your head. and i think he was doing that

last night. he gave up the homerun to salazar, but as you look at j.d. overall, i think he is making a case for himself to get strong consideration next season. again no one is going to look at j.d. martin as the top of the rotation starter. he is a fourth or fifth starter on a club and i think he's got that type of stuff. you look at what he has accomplished the last two starts, and you talk about getting ready for the 2010 season, this is when you start doing that. whether the nationals come up with another veteran starter in the season or make some kind of a trade, you have to look at a guy like j.d. martin as one of your top candidates for that fourth or fifth slot. >> j.d. is a rookie and so is our feature of 2020 a series that continues here in the intelsat extra pregame. a rookie as well as ross detwiler up with a big club natology for the syracuse

chiefs. rot detwiler's first pitch. >> the nationals got a glimpse into their future when 23-year-old ross detwiler made his first major league start may 18th. after a few rough outings, and inconsistent results, the intelsat made detwiler's first trip to the club a short one. but the future still shines bright. one of the intelsat's most promising prospects. fast ball by him. and with experience now under his belt, 2010 could bring big things for the young lefty. >> he has an amazing arm i don't know john ross detwiler 10 starts this year. 0-5 record era 6.40. >> phil: in 15 minor league

starts, johnny he has about 59 runs. 29 walks. he has a plus curve ball and a plus change up. he only has an average fast ball but his curve ball is so good it makes his fast ball look better. you might recall, they kind of tried to tinker with his delivery earlier. in college he threw across his body and i they wanted him to get away from doing that because guys who do that tend to develop elbow issues. he completely lost command of the strike zone. now he is back to throwing across his body with certainly no ill effects anyone can see thus far. certainly i think if you look at his performance this year in syracuse, the potential is there. he is still just 23 years old. >> johnny: for him to be consistent at this level and to stick with the club instead of

yo-yoking back and forth what does he have to do? >> phil: it comes down to when he has two strikes on a hitter or once he has two outs in an inning. a lot of these guys get the yips at that point. once he has more experience he'll do that with more consistency. >> johnny: you know i was just looking at your hair. it is the stay in the game hold of the day brought to you by just for men hair color. steve klein, felix rodriguez both have 17 versus the padres. scott with 13, todd jones 11 and ray king has got 10. just as those relievers have kept the padres in the came you too can stay in the game with just for men hair color. we will take a break and come back and continue while phil works on his hair in just a moment and we'll talk about intelsat starter john lannan

seeking his ninth win of the season today in san diego. i'm racing cross country in this small sidecar, but i've still got room for the internet. with my new netbook from at&t. with its built-in 3g network, it's fast and small, so it goes places other laptops can't.

i'm bill kurtis, and i've got plenty of room for the internet. and the nation's fastest 3g network. gun it, mick. (announcer) sign up today and get a netbook for $199.99 after mail-in rebate. with built-in access to the nation's fastest 3g network. only from at&t. continues to be a very special beer. six weeks after jim started the business it took the best beer in america award. nobody had tried an american beer that had that kind of flavor. twenty years off, jim is still obsessed with boston lager. sam adams lager continues to win medals all over the world.

that's pretty cool. >> johnny: john lannan has had an up and down last five starts. innings pitched there, phil, especially august 22nd. one and two third innings, gave up seven earned run ins that that ballgame. >> phil: middle three not so great. it is the middle three that give him the high era in the month of august. season is still under four runs a game. you look at john and you see what he has done and what he is capable of doing. you understand this year he is the ace of the staff. next year, year after that, that might not be the case. but clearly he is going to be a

contributor if a long time, much like hernandez, john knows how to pitch. he knows how to win with less than blinding speed. he commands the fast ball on both sides of the plate. by moving it around he has been very, very effective. the curve ball was hanging the fast ball was flattening out. whether it was the heat the humidity, whatever. the first and last starts of the month were finn. but the middle three, awful. >> johnny: i'm guessing because he has only had three run supports in three starts against san diego, 21 total innings, he is probably lobbying around the breakfast table saying guys, i will pickup the tab. give me some runs today. >> phil: obviously a lot of pitchers will tell you that they look at allow the club is playing and they think well, i'm going to have to throw a shutout today. one of the things rob was talking about last night in the

post game show is these guys need to concentrate to showing shutouts. >> johnny: let's go back out to san diego and petco. phil and i have been talking about john lannan. from your perspective it has been a rough going the last five ballgames. where is he now? where can he go from here? >> reporter: well you guys have hit on a lot of issues. the fast ball hasn't been as sharp. we saw the last out not guilty st. louis which was very good. i think from here, it is just a matter of getting back on track to what he was doing earlier this year. i mean the key with lannan is always fast ball command. if he does that, everything else sets up from there. this has been a team the last couple of days with the padres who has bitten on the curve balls. if lannan can establish his fast ball, i think today could be a good day for him. but it is just a matter of

getting back on top of his stuff, which is you know, he has been away from. if it he can do that today it will be strong. >> phil: the lineup is a little unusual. some of the players. you wonder if john is looking over his shoulder and thinking to himself are these the guys that are going to score me more than 1.8 runs today? >> reporter: you look at the lineup and also the park, the toughest park to score runs in, in the national league this year. you add all those things into it, you think probably it is going to take two runs or less to win today, especially with adam dunn struggle and go ryan zimmerman hasn't been great either. today you need a win given the lineup and the way the park has played. >> johnny: the addition of yvonne hernandez can some of his experience rub off on john lannan? >> reporter: yeah i think it can.

you look at how he pitches, very similar to the approach john uses and a lot of the guys use. his stuff isn't overpowering, not particularly hard, but he commands it, he knows how to locate and how to command speed. that is very much what john lannan does. he makes a point of looking at pitchers that do that and try to learn from that and tries to pattern himself after those guys. having one here like hernandez is good and something the nationals have been looking for. >> johnny: thank you very much. as phil was talking about we'll look at the lineup today. interesting lineup, which will be backing up john lannan as john takes to the hill. we'll touch on the intelsat lineup and also the san diego padres. we'll be back with more of intelsat extra pregame in a moment. in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command.

read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

nice day for a ballgame out at san diego.

the intelsat and the wards wrapping up their three game series. san diego taking the first two game of the series. intelsat trying to escape with a win. log on to masn sports.com and play masn's maximum access fantasy baseball for a chance at a weekly prize, weekly prizes and the chance to have lunch with jim riggleman. use a virtual $100 million salary cap to select your fantasy baseball roster. you fans can play on your own or form your own leagues and invite friends or enemies. play masn's maximum access fantasy baseball and do it today. first of all at san diego's lineup second baseman david eckstein, one for four last night. the second most difficult bat tore strike out in the national league. he has a five game hitting streak hitting .381. hits in seven of his last eight ballgames and only one error all season long committed back on june 16th. he will be in the number two

hole. cabrera leads off for the padres, then adrian gonzales, kevin kouzmanoff off at third, will venable, drew macias centerfield and kevin correia on the mound for the padres. we'll look at the nationals starting lineup. when you talk about second baseman petrary he is hit safely in four of his last five ballgames. two for six in the series at san diego and hit .24 with the chiefs with nine homers willie harris will lead off, adam dunn in the first base bag hitting shirt in the lineup followed by zimmerman, pete orr, justin maxwell will be in centerfield

and jorge padilla in right field and john lannan will be batting ninth. career in september, .311 average, 14 runs and three driven in. when you talk about correia as a starter, some of the nationals had very little success against him. zimmerman dunn and willie harris. zimmerman two for ten. harris is three for nine. and the only homerun amongst the group has come from dunn he is two for six. >> phil: correia has been a relief pitcher until last season with the giants. he became a free agent, signed with his hometown team, he grew up in san diego and this year his numbers are very similar to john lannan's. he sometimes struggles to get left handed hitters out but he has been solid this season. low 90s fast ball average to plus change.

throws a slider. and this is one of those guys that as you look at this match up today an even pitching match up the intelsat need to salvage a win out of this. >> johnny: congratulations phil. while we have a moment to the gulf coast nationals, they meet the gust coffle marlins a 3-1 for the intelsat. the third baseman had all three rbis. josh was the starting pitcher. he went five innings, gave up one run and shane mccaddie gets the win. he is 1-0. congratulations to the guys down in ferrara. i imagine he was at the ballgame today. >> phil: he is relaxing and enjoying himself. whether or not he actually had some chores of his own today or was able to go watch this game, it is anybody's guess. >> johnny: well thanks for

joining us here at intelsat extra pregame. coming up in just a moment rob carpenter and bob dibbal from san san diego rob dibble and bob carpenter from san diego.

at some restaurants when you get boneless wings... what are you really paying for? whoa! ha ha! i say "happy," you say "birthday!" happy... birthday! who's hungry? why pay for flair when you can get all the flavor for just $3.99 with wendy's new boneless wings. tender, juicy chicken, hand tossed in our signature buffalo or bbq sauce.

it's waaaay better than fast food. it's wendy's.  welcome to san diego fo perfect southern california afternoon of baseball. the intelsat and the padres at petco park on a wired wednesday. >> hi, i'm mike morris and i'm micked up -- i'm miked up   there is lots of room t

rome and play out by center field at petco park. hopefully the intelsat can gain a split in the season series, by winning here today, the padres are 21-5 against the nationals since they came from montreal. time to get rid of that bob carpenter and rob additional. rob, kind of an interesting series. when you are not getting base hits, the other team seems like the greatest defensive team you have ever faced robb. this was the other night when rob rob we'll get will trying to stretch a single into a double. last night will venable stealing a base hit and a pick off move by clayton richards, right after that, a homerun by josh.

1.8 runs per game over the last five. .213 batting average, runners in scoring position a immediate yoer 185. great defense great pitching has been the story against the nationals. >> bob: and a california drought. john lannan will have pressure to pitch well today. he went eight good innings against the padres. ten times this year, seven or more. text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

 nationals baseball amasn brought to you by southwest airlines. book your next trip at southwest.com. and by acura. acura advance. the dry, hot weather that southern california has been having certainly on display here in san diego today. it is going to be a sizzler out there for the guys. let's look at a very different nationals lineup today brought

to you by southwest.com. willie harris leading off three for nine against kevin correia, the san diego starter. orr is in there, maxwell, padilla. first pitch of the ballgame and willie harris pops it up. we are underway right on time at 3:35 eastern. clear skies, 83. probably feels like 90 or low 90s out there. and just a hint of a breeze moving the flags around a bit here in downtown san diego. willie harris 0 for 4 with a walk in the series. >> rob: he was the nonroster inviteee to spring training and has been amazing all season long. he will change speeds and

change locations all day. >> bob: hart hard breaking ball whistle just beyond the back kneecap of willie harris. hitting .222 but he has elevated that on base percentage. over that time .385. so get go on base regularly. intelsat still smarting from the loss of mike jr. morgan. the padres are winning the first two games of the series. >> rob: they have 58 wins the nats have 46. washington trying to break a five game losing streak. harris bounces it hard. back handguns knocks it down. correia is where he should be for the first out.

>> rob: scouting report on kevin. thanks for the invite he got invited made the team as his 28th start now. i love you, man. every time this kid starts it is a possibility for a win. 15 and 12 and correia's 27 starts and 17 of his 27 starts six innings or better. >> bob: first pitch fast ball inside corner to alberto gonzales who is 1 for 7 in it series. and a pop fly to right. that is not where the nats want him hitting the ball. that will be easy for venable. two quick outs. adam dunn coming up. the padres are sixth in the league in defense. their shortstop, everth cabrera

has made nine errors on the field this year but nobody on the field besides him, has made six. padres worst offense in base ball statistically. they have to play good defense and they have certainly done that, against our ball club. dunn 0 for 7 telesticouts and a walk in the first two games. he goes up swinging. it is going to stay fair and that is a base hilt. >> rob: got to love it. >> bob: tomorrow it will still be a dribble. >> rob: that will be a line drive tomorrow. but for him maybe that will get adam back on track. >> bob: looked like it was going foul. he thought it was a foul ball. >> rob: hit it off the end of the bat. they call it q shot t hits the line but it had so much top spin, curves to the inside. >> bob: jim riggleman is a genius he wanted zimmerman protecting dunn in the lineup today. he didn't know adam was going

to hit one on the ground first time up. fast ball is up to ryan, who is 2 for 8 in the series with a per of doubles. by the way the nats have been busy on the waver wire. they just picked up victor guantanamo thai victim victor garatay. nats on the lookout for pitching wherever they can find it. mike sitting in the booth next to us has been a busy man today. a 1-1 to zimmerman. fast ball up and in. jammed it. by the way, their aa is in

tennessee. that is rick hundred any cut's neighborhood, in tennessee. lookout mountain right near town there 1-2 with adam dunn on first to ryan zimmerman. ninth in the league with 151 hits. how about 152. >> rob: goodbye. >> bob: dunn will go to third. zimmerman pulls in with a base hit and the nats have runners at the corners with two outs. rob, we all know this. when ryan is going well he hits the ball extremely hard to that part of the field. >> rob: he was working on that in batting practice today. we were talking about that. being able to cover the outside portions of the plate with authority. drive the ball back toward the sent tore field gap and the right center and left center. that is where you should always be trying to hit line drives. like you said, when he is going well, he is hitting it to that

part of the ballpark. >> bob: here's pete orr. with the nationals, he is still 8 for 17 in five games. he has driven in a couple of runs. two for six in the series. >> rob: back door breaking ball by correia. >> bob: kevin correia 29 years of age. he is a san diego native out of grosmont high school and placed at grosmont college. made a detour to cal polly in the big west. he was all conference back in 02 and broke in with the giants one year later. 3 and 8. 25 games. 19 starts with san francisco last year. and then the padres picked him

up. pretty close, he just missed outside. 2-2. >> rob: you just need a chance. you need to open some eyes. that is why an invitation to camp, whether you you are a 40-man roster guy or a guy like correia, this is his 289th start of the season. he tried a back door breaking ball just missing. >> bob: 2-2. pete orr pulls it. one final already in baseball today. the reds at home beat the pirates 5-3. cincinnati has won four straight. the pirates have lost seven in a row. the white sox just scored four in the ninth to take a 4 love 2 lead against the streaking twins. they have just zoomed right by the white sox in the alcentral 2-2 to orr. minnesota winners of three straight. the white sox moving away some

of their players have lost five in a row. they are seven games out. cubs and houston playing a day game today. 2-0 at wrigley. 2-2 to pete orr again, target away. he is having a quality at bat here, making correia work long to end this first inning. he got the first two batters. game notes, ryan zimmerman driving the ball lately with all those extra base hits. josh 15 homers in games .10 of his 32 career homers in this ballpark. and the nats are in a southern california drought, just like the rest of the state. >> bob: real good at bat continues now 3-2. ryan zimmerman will be able to move off first base on the

pitch and the padres will move adrian gonzales behind him. >> rob: one of the best parts of this at bat is he has seen a lot of correia's pitches. but so has our bench. >> bob: 3-2 a lot of room up the middle and he pulls it right to gonzales. two grounders to the right side. double hits. the nats strand two. call... all passengers... each with an average speed of 590 mph... almost as fast as you. nothing's gonna hold you down. grab your bag . it's on™west so our low fares stay low. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com.

 >> bob: bob the nationals m kevin correia work to the tune of 21 pitches. again that couldn't get that two out hit. now it is john lannan's turn. to go against the team with the lowest batting average and the fewest runs among the 30 teams. kevin guzman off one more rbi. to lead the padres hitting only .242 with 520 runs. their eleventh in homers and 12th in stolen bases and john lannan tries to follow-up an outstanding performance at st. louis. khalil greene got him the one offering of that game john would love to have back. now you go out five days later and try to do better. everth cabrera two for nine in the series. a couple of runs. he has already bunted a couple

of times. zimmerman charges that is lovely. adam dunn was off the bag when he caught the throw. he calmly found the bag and stepped on it. >> rob: well i'm glad zimmerman was in about 40 feet from home plate trying to take the bunt away from cabrera. he has done it three times in two games against the nationals. so he scoops up the tough hop and ca prayer is back on the bench right where he belongs. >> bob: next up is david he can steen -- is david eckstein. 2 for 8. 

 another bouncer. zimmerman on one hop this t two outs. >> rob: pnc bank scouting report coming at you now. not mel gibson. john lannan 5-1 with a 2-6 at home. frank sinatra, trying to end the season on a good note just like old blue eyes and deep sea dive, don't put so much pressure on yourself. just go out there and work on a few things. >> bob: hopefully he'll do it his way. bases empty, two outs. here's adrian gonzales. interesting outing in st. louis though the other day john only had seven ground ball outs in his outing there. >> rob: got over 300 ground ball outs this season. >> bob: low and inside to the big power hit ergons. ninth in the league with an on

base% anglicans hitting .273 overall. top six in the league with 34 home runs. lannan pounding them inside, 2-1. >> bob: great breaking ball. white sox won that game at minnesota with four in the ninth. 4-2. if they had lost that game they would have been four and a half back of minnesota. >> rob: 2-1 pitch right here thinking breaking ball down and away. adrian gonzales was thinking something else and he misses it. 2-2. target in. went slow and then he speeds him up with a fast ball. >> bob: maxwell in center padilla in right, will nieves

behind the plate. there are guys out there who go get the ball, that is for sure. >> rob: i wouldn't mind here in the next few weeks letting mike morris get some reps out in left field right field or first base or whatever. there is the big man. >> bob: jim riggleman made an interesting comment this morning about guys like him and padilla. he said if you don't use them, they become useless to you. >> bob: john lannan with a nasty breaking ball to gonzales. two grounders and a big sweeper. he is off to a good start continuing his fine work from his last start. e really trust . gecko: yeah right, that makes sense. boss: trust is key when talking about geico. you gotta feel it. why don't you and i practice that with a little exercise where i fall backwards and you catch me. gecko: uh no sir, honestly... uh...i don't think...uh... boss: no, no. we can do this.

gecko: oh dear. vo: geico. fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. there are car radios... and then there is the voice-recognizing, text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

 >> bob: welcome to petco pa in san diego. second inning no scores national and the padres. a way claim today mike what did you see in victor? >> victor is a guy that has a three pitch repertoire. he is effective against right handers and left handers. he has swing and miss stuff. effective against right and left handed hitters and he is 24 years old, he is young in his career. do you envision him as middle relief maybe set up guy as he goes through the nationals organization? >> he has started in the past and relieved. we see him as an effective middle relief set up type of guy to compliment ron and sean burnett. we see him he is a player with

options left. we are going to take a look at him this september. if he is ready for action next year he will be in the big leagues if not we have options left in the minors. >> reporter: guys. >> bob: thank you, sir. that could be an interesting young man to have a look at this september. pretty much out of the nats bullpen from that left side. will nieves on a tapper up the middle to his left and in. cabrera. plenty of time to get it done for the first out. more defense from the padres coming at you. if you don't take that to right you ground to right to the shortstop. nice pickup, bye bye. >> bob: next up justin maxwell. hit the ball sharply the other way a couple of times last

night. >> rob: he checks this one to left but there is a guy there the ball hooking chase headley the second out. maxwell getting decent swings. slide to right bounce to second fly to center. so that is really the first ball he has pulled. that is what the nats want him to do is to stay on those pitches a little longer. >> rob: but also be able to cover the outside part of the plate. the 135 strikeouts in aaa, the constantly dropping that back leg and pulling off the breaking balls to right field. it's up oh, my goodness. >> bob: that ball flew into a little equipment shed right at the home plate end of the dugout. thank goodness there were no fans around there. this thing had serious velocity. >> rob: some hitters hold the bat in their fingertips like you would hold a golf club and you

get that bat headed forward trying to get as much bat speed and torque in it. it is flying right out of your hands. >> bob: padilla won for 13 in 14 games. so one major league hit. he turned 30 on august 11th. 11 plus years in the minor leagues with four different organizations. pulls that slider right at guzman off third. gats go in order. we'll hear from the outfielder, straight ahead. whether that's building more certified green buildings than anyone on earth. creating online banking tools for the next generation. or making a 10 year, $100 million investment in kids.

it's how we've always done business. and will for a very long time to come. pnc. leading the way. there's no way to hide it. if you drive drunk, we will find you. cops everywhere are stepping up enforcement... and cracking down like never before. sir, have you been drinking tonight? sir, have you been drinking this evening? sir, have you been drinking tonight?

make no mistake. you will get caught and you will be arrested. over the limit. under arrest.  >> bob: evidently half of ridgecrest, california was here yesterday for j.d. martin's start. but they all got their own tickets. guzman off left side, zimmerman cuts it, gets rid of it in a hurry. he is like a young boy at play

over there on a wednesday afternoon at third base. rob, what did you think of j.d. martin's innings last night? >> rob: i thought he was outstanding, good slider, crisp fast ball, got touched up a little bit later on in the start, and as he goes on and that was only his ninth start, you know, try to cut down and be more economical and not just cut down on the amount of pitches, but hit your spot soon and try to pitch a little bit more to contact and maybe help yourself stay around a little bit longer. i would love to see guys like j.d. and them go in their last five innings. he threw 105 pitches in six innings. i don't want to say that is too many. but by today's standards, that is getting you pulled out of the game earlier than in ten years past, where they'd let you throw 150 pitches no problem every

fifth day. been bob chase headley damaging pinch hit homerun here monday night. the series started 0 for 4 yesterday. >> rob: did you think j.d. had some more left in the tank? i mean, sometimes they are looking at your pitch count. you know i'm not in love with the pitch counts and stuff. but if you are at 75 pitches in the sixth inning he has at least one or two more innings in him. >> bob: there have been 20 nights this year when the nats offense did get those guys that many runs and they didn't do that much with it. so it works both ways when you are talking a ball club not scoring. >> rob: we have a talented group of kids. they have to believe it and put themselves on the blackboard at the end of the season when they are being evaluated. >> bob: lannan with a good

breaking ball outside conner. actually, a cutter. 88. >> bob: that was john's 56th walk of the year. he is not a strikeout pitcher per se, but it is not a very good ratio, still. that ball hit hard to center field after a late start headley will have to stop. he had to make sure that ball got through. because from his angle at first base it looked close to pete orr. first and second one out for the padres. and we arrive at the 1:00 hour out here in beautiful san diego. not a cloud to be seen except way out east today. and jim riggleman is going to join us wednesday live from the dugout. >> rob: talking about john lannan, he had a great run there nine of ten starts from the sixth of june to the 26th of

july. but since the 26th of july, two of his last six have been very tough outings for him. or two of the six have been great. four of those six have not been so great. so it is more trying to balance the consistency throughout the year because you know you are going to get tired eventually. >> bob: john is approaching the number of innings he threw last year. he took the ball 31 times in 2008. he averaged right at six innings per outing and he has a chance to go well beyond that if he takes his regular turn between now and october 4th. the catcher hundley trying to keep that ball down. he has missed with two. >> rob: i like to measure starters by how many wins the team has in your start. the nats are 11 and 16 in 21 starts as opposed to kevin correia, who was an invite to spring training they have won 15 out of his 27 starts.

>> bob: the records are similar correia 8 and 10 lannan 8 and 9. >> rob: having an era three runs higher basically or two runs higher on the road than you have at home, you have just got either concentration or focus. can't let the outside things bother you. whether it is stadium the mound the fans, that can't enter into it. you have to be professional on the road. >> bob: a four pitch walk for the second time this inning. this is the bottom of the order where you get hurt by doing things like that. tyler clippard found that out. >> rob: then you walk the next two guys at the bottom of the order. you know, it is an old record i see replaying. they are hitting seventh and eighth in the batting order for

a reason on the worst hitting team in baseball. stop giving them so much credit, attack them, throw it over the plate and let them hit it. see what they can do. been bob drew macias 7 for 38 this year. >> rob: he is seeing what is going on here with john lannan. again two of the three hitters he has faced after he got an out, he has walked. you are beating yourself. make them earn t we have fast, young guys out there make those guys play behind you. give them a chance. he said i was going to try and not think about it. i got in the elevator and it hit me. he walked a couple of guys. that kind of stuff sticks with steve, myself. i was talking to pat. you have to try to start simply

identifying the game at this level. he talked about, i mean the guys at the major league level have been the best everywhere they have played. high school, college, minor leagues. what is changing at the major league level about the game? nothing. the game does not change. it is what you change about it mentally that is probably affecting your play. >> bob: another breaking ball to macias, 2-0. the pitcher's on deck. no score bottom of the second. padres threatening. lannan gets the bottom of the zone with the running fast ball. good thing. the nationals have never led in this series. padres trying to break on top 2-1 pitch. yes again. and the count's even.

macias very passive at that. now it is time for him to swing the bat. and a perfect double play ball. unloads it in a hurry. gonzales turns it, almost turns dunn off the bag but the big man stays on and john lannan gets the badly needed double play ball. saves your family's unused minutes. and saving minutes saves money. for back to school, get the lg neon for $29.99 after mail-in rebate. yeah. ( thud )

are you insured? do you know when your beer is perfectly cold? or do you risk drinking a warm one? if you have the coors light cold-activated bottle, you're covered. because every bottle turns blue when your beer is as cold as the rockies. it's cold insurance, only from coors light. ( cheering, splash ) cold beer: that's our policy. frost-brewed coors light. the world's most refreshing beer. at some restaurants when you get boneless wings... what are you really paying for? whoa! ha ha! i say "happy," you say "birthday!" happy... birthday! who's hungry? why pay for flair when you can get all the flavor for just $3.99 with wendy's new boneless wings. tender, juicy chicken, hand tossed in our signature buffalo or bbq sauce. it's waaaay better than fast food. it's wendy's.

 top of the third inning as nats and padres get together in petco park. it is wired wednesday. jim riggleman always kind enough to spend some of his time with us. good afternoon. your thoughts on your lineup featuring maxwell and padilla both starting? >> we wanted to give a couple of guys a day off. we have a couple of guys in the lineup struggling, as you know. sometimes sitting back and watching one, afterwards, you'll come right back out fresh. so, we are looking for that to happen. but also you know, we have got to get these guys some games. maxwell and padilla haven't played that much. >> rob: the injury to nyjer morgan it has been hard to get guys on. dunn the third today and zimmerman the fourth.

is it a question of finding the right guy? or does it give you an opportunity to test things out? >> for the most part it will be willie while nyjer is out. willie is a pretty good on base guy. he is getting on base pretty good. he knows how to play the game we are going to leave him up there. today about adam, we want to give him protection in the lineup. >> bob: willie harris .385 on base average his last 11 games. jim, do you like what you have seen so far today from john lannan after what he did at st. louis? >> the first inning was just like st. louis and last inning as it can happen you can lose it and walk a couple of guys. but he really came back strong after steve mccaddie's visit and got a real nice ground ball. >> thanks, jim. >> bob: here's willie harris. pulled the ball first time to

the first baseman adrian gonzales and alberto gonzales to follow here in the third. the nats need to string together three or four hits, everybody can relax and then you go on from there. >> rob: it is strange you lose your lead off man with a broken hand. it is almost like guys are pressing instead of kind of saying okay, i'm going to get more reps out there because of the loss of those two guys been bob yeah. opportunity knocks. gonzales again to the pitcher. willie harris pulling the ball on the ground twice. the nats now have been retired six in a row.

come on out, t-shirt tuesday next week when the phillies are in. it is our first game back after labor day. first 10,000 fans nats town t-shirt free. 202675 nats. nationals.com or stop by the box office at the ballpark. marlins in friday and then the phillies for three. and after that, one more homestand. wow. and gonzales hitting the ball in the air in routine fashion to right field again. now it is seven straight for correia. the latest pitcher, and shut down the washington offense. turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed.

update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

 >> bob: that is rob and i coming to the ballpark this morning. thanks for getting out your nice sailboat for testimony it was a lovely day. only place in california where it is wet. >> rob: what do you think of my seamanship? >> bob: you are a salty dog.

0-2 to kevin correia 5 for 39 this year. a 114 career hit. and a breaking ball. foul tip will nieves grabbed it, held on. >> rob: land off the port bow. does that mean ballpark to the left? >> yes and they have been playing great since july 28th. 20-14. trade away a bunch of guys. 277. 32 homers. >> bob: they remind me of colorado about three or four years ago. a lot of young guys who come up through the organization battling for spots. playing good defense, not beating themselves. colorado did have matt holliday at that time to kind of rally around. we'll see if some of the padres can be that good. look at that. a carbon copy of cabrera's

first at bat from the swing to the pitch to the throw. two outs. >> rob: how do you like me now? we are playing in, taking away the punt. taking away the short chop. keep making adam dunn lean that way though. keep stretching catch some of these balls. nice to have a six foot six first baseman. >> bob: it is. that is a lovely target. here's david eckstein. when you look at this roster eckstein i guess had kouzmanoff off of the position players the senior members here. and then adrian gonzales right behind them. so they need a guy like eckstein to stick around for another year or two. they resigned him next year

already. he bounces out. gonzales throws him out. here comes adam dunn. adam has a base hit and so does ryan. it is time for the middle of the order to start taking big swings and making some noise. it's... no, not yet. it back that way. it's on. ( ding ) book now at southwest.com.

 >> bob: top of the fourth inning here at beautiful petco park in san diego. for you folks with the ball club coming back home, it's never been easier to take in a ballgame. see for yourself stub had you

been.com. the official marketplace of the washington nationals. sean west on friday, levon hernandez and josh johnson saturday. how is that? j.d. martin, sunday labor day off and then the phillies in next tuesday wednesday thursday. at dam done 1 for 1 with a screaming liner down the third baseline. it took 14 hops before it went by the bag. >> rob: i'm sure he took a lot of kidding in the dugout. a grown man hit that ball. a big grown man. >> bob: consecutive seasons with 35 plus. six in a row for the big

fellow. and howard and pool haas house. -- >> >> rob: p souvenir in the second deck. it is smoking here. it is a sizzler. how many times have we seen that swing on a ball fairway out? he is going to get it with a back door breaking ball. adam dunn strikes out for the fourth time in this series. and the 151st time this year. >> rob: i don't think you could hit this pitch with a 40-inch bat. it is a little bit really at the back door. could be near the out house. >> bob: north rub grum pond

information systems are now hiring. visit meetngc.com/is. the information systems power house. ryan zimmerman, a ringing base hit to right center first time up. >> rob: maybe killer in the umpiring through. they have a plane to catch. >> bob: it should not matter. >> rob: no it shouldn't. but some hot days and some days when there is a bigger umpire behind home plate i'm just a little liberal back there. >> bob: zimmerman three for nine in this series with a pair of doubles. players younger than 25. career most homers rbis hits and doubles.

nice. >> rob: is that active or all time? >> bob: that's got to be active. >> rob: current players. >> bob: ryan will have a birthday later this month. severe jam job there and gonzales over to get it. >> rob: that was getting in the kitchen. >> bob: ryan's birthday is september 28th. he will reach the 25-year mark there. oh, to be 25 with a contract like that, and that ability. >> rob: skills. remember you recognize it as skills. >> bob: well that's what got him the contract. and a strike to pete orr who pulled the ball on the ground first time. both pitchers economical, 12

per inning for correia first three 13 per infog lannan first three. >> bob: and/or or rolls over another one. he has the left handed batters doing that. willie harris and pete orr are 0 for 4 hitting the ball in the ground on the first baseman. whether that's building more certified green buildings than anyone on earth. creating online banking tools for the next generation. or making a 10 year, $100 million investment in kids. it's how we've always done business. and will for a very long time to come. pnc. leading the way. there are car radios... and then there is the voice-recognizing, text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus.

sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one. not too close; whatta ya' think i got that insurance? what insurance is that yogi? aflac. the one ya' really need to have if you don't have it. that's why you need it. need what? aflac. well, if you get hurt and miss work it won't hurt to miss work... aflac? and they give ya' cash which is as good as money. aflac. we've got you under our wing.  >> bob: welcome back to san diego the nationals and the

padres scoreless in the fourth inning. today is the 2009 roberto clemente day. john lannan is the nominee for the nationals this year. exceptional work in the community and great performance on the field and he talks about the legacy of roberto clemente. >> i mean, he changed the game, you know? he did a lot of great things for his home country and a lot of great things here. he is a great player on and off the field. something you really try to aspire to be. >> lannan started the program that helps sick children come to sunday home games with the nationals. guys? >> bob: well done, john lannan. a deserving honor. more on that friday when we honor roberto clemente. lannan to adrian gonzales ball one. >> rob: little bit more on clemente, won 12 gold gloves,

he led the league in batting four different times. >> bob: it is a little tricky on that grass out there and it went right through on pete orr. >> rob: but it is the charity work which is really why we remember roberto clemente. he died in a plane crash december 31, 1972 while he was in route to deliver aid to earthquake victim. having played in puerto rico three different winters, his memory will live on for a long, long time. he is still revered and i was there in the mid 90s, more than 20 years after his death about been bob john lannan will be hon in order thursday night roberto clemente night. if you have any kind of sports yearssy with the number 21 on it, wear it. he would love the tribute. so pete orr gets his first

error as a national. on what's usually a base hit. but he was playing out there the ball went right through his legs. john lannan may need to spin another double play ball here. kouzmanoff off 24 double playground balls this year chase ledly next. >> rob: this i did not know. in the winter of 58-59 he served in the united states marine corps, reserves. spent six months military commitment in south carolina. as an infantry man. >> bob: john lannan with another walk. his third of the day. >> rob: it added strength. he gained ten pounds in the

military and he also said it cleared up his back troubles. how awesome is that? >> bob: there you go. your back is sore, check in with your chiropractor and join the marine. >> rob: very nice. >> bob: your back will be one of the few and the proud. and it won't hurt any more. >> rob: i think it is john candy in stripes where he goes well, you know, those diet programs are expensive. i figured i would join the army and drop some weight and be alien, mean, fighting machine. john candy was hilarious. late john candy. >> bob: funny man. headley hits one hard but foul. that movie trains planes and automobiles reminds me of traveling with rob dibble. except for that one scene.

those hands between some pillows. >> rob: hey, how about them dodgers? >> bob: that is the scene i was talking about. >> rob: i know. i know. >> bob: 0-2 to headley who walked. >> rob: john lannan in familiar territory. you talked about this you talked about the walks and he rolls a lot of double play balls. already got out of a jam in the second inning with a double play ball. you don't want to constantly put yourself behind the 8 ball. >> rob: swing and other foul. obviously a bad hop with gonzales. gonzales's ground ball. >> bob: i did spot a flaw in that movie though. you know they are trying to get to chicago. when they are crossing the bridge, they are going into st. louis, not out of st. louis. they think we don't catch stuff

like that. >> rob: maybe they put it in there so you would catch it. did you ever think of that? >> bob: well they were going the wrong way. >> rob: no one is more thankful about gps navigation on board your car than myself. i used to get lost in my own naked which is not good. not good with directions. you, you study maps. >> bob: zimmerman a double pump. did it cost him the double play? yes. it took ryan one extra half of a hop to get the ball out. he got the middle runner at second base, but lost the twin killing. 5-4 on that dealers choice. >> rob: well, while he is transferring the ball to his throwing hand, a little bit of a bobble, too much time getting

it to pete orr. trying to get the grip he reached in and the ball was on the back side of his fingers and quickly made the change but it was too much. >> bob: here's will venable who singled up the middle first time. >> rob: that hundley can get down the line. he's got some speed. >> bob: he got down the line in good fashion there. >> rob: i think it was the first game he had like an infield single deep in the hole to alberto. >> bob: he did. first at bat monday night. >> rob: i just wand you to check it. you keep perfect records. >> bob: that night you had your black shirt ask your red tie on.

>> rob: that's funny. i don't get that copious. that's what i love about you. we are the odd couple. >> bob: there is no doubt about that. >> rob: you are oscar, right? felix was the anal one. >> bob: that would be me, then. >> rob: the very prepared one. >> bob: you improvise on a minute by minute basis. >> rob: absolutely. throughout my day, my life and adapt. >> bob: 1-2. adam reaching. the world would be really boring if everybody was like me and it would be total chaos if everybody was like you. so we find a balance. >> rob: absolutely. absolutely. it is the negative and the positive you know? took a lot off that breaking

ball right there. venable way out in front. >> bob: lannan has made some good pitches to him in this at bat. venable riding a 6 game streak. 7 now. and 10 of his last 12 ballgames hitting safely. a lot of times, as we have mentioned, you can tell by a hitter the balls he is falling off how well he is going. >> rob: some of the finer points in very solid things with john lannan. he repeats his delivery. he is very good at repeating that. and he gets out over that front leg. so his follow through is excellent, too. lannan, gets him down and in. moving the ball around beautifully during that at bat. >> rob: that ball are great sink to it. it mate have been a two seam

fast ball. a lot of sweeping breaking balls. great change upright here that ball just dives out of the zone at 88 miles per hour. >> bob: that is what's great about the pitch track t gives you the velocity but also the movement. too hard to be a change up and that is a good sinker. now, a right handed batter. hundley. whether or not walked and was wiped out on a double playoff the bat of macias, back in the second and coma lannan gets ahead of him. >> rob: if i was coaching a young pitcher i would say listen watch john lannan pitch. he gets out over that front leg so well we used to do a drill where we put a coin out in front of the mound at the front of the mound, and you have to reach out and follow through after the pitch and pick up that coin off the dirt. >> bob: high chopper with lots of overspin. gonzales to orr john lannan flirting with trouble but getting out of it again. scoreless game into the fifth. éa,

 been bob they decided to at a ballpark to the western metal supply company. the near corner of that building, by the way, is the left field foul pole. they had to line it up perfectly because i'm pretty sure that billing was here first. we have trivia for you, going to the top of the fifth in a scoreless game. this is maxwell, padilla coming up. the two players in today's game whose first career homer was a

grand slam. i know one of them. he is on deck. >> rob: maxwell? >> bob: yes, sir. in florida. have to think about the other. folks, help us out. be thinking. put your thinking cap on. >> rob: keith kouzmanoff off or gonzales. no, i think it is hundley. i think i read that in his bio. >> bob: okay, let's go with maxwell and hundley, will nieves pulled the ball the short time first time up. goes the other way, hits it sharply. but gonzales is over there. he has had a busy day with the mitt. here's maxwell with his third major league at bat. it was a grand slam and it was

a pinch hit. >> bob: grand slam? i think the score was 12-0 when he hit that. it was not the good way 12-0. >> rob: so it finished being 12-4. >> bob: i think zimmerman might have hit one. but that was max's first. he said two big league homers. in fact 2007 i was looking over this today is when the marlins really started dominating the nats. last year they went 14-3 against washington. 9-3 this year. despite the sweep of a couple of years ago the nats still owe the fish two or three this weekend. gic regularral man knows it is a lot easier to manage when you have people on base and you can

move runners, hit behind him, sacrifice. that is a good shot to maxwell. iceland out hard to the outfield twice today. sunday at nationals park is dollar kids' day. purchase up to four tickets for children ages two to 12 for $1 each. that is with the full price adult ticket. except the please's club diamond club and the grandstand. offer good sunday only. the kids must be with you at the time of the purchase. you can't combine that with any other orders. or offers. right field side. padilla the outs keep coming quickly. the nats have been retired 13 in a row now.

bags fly free on southwest so our low fares stay low. grab your bag . it's on™ ( ding ) book now at southwest.com. there's no way to hide it. if you drive drunk, we will find you. cops everywhere are stepping up enforcement... and cracking down like never before. sir, have you been drinking tonight? sir, have you been drinking this evening? sir, have you been drinking tonight? make no mistake. you will get caught and you will be arrested. over the limit. under arrest.  time to bring you up to speed with the at&t rapid rewind. lots of pitching today.

john lannan and kevin correia matching each other just about perfectly so far. at&t the nation's fastest 3g network. at&t, your world delivered. correia 55 pitches, 39 strikes, in his first five and because of a long fourth inning, john lannan 61 offerings, 3838 -- 38 in the strike zone. he's got the ground ball thing going today. >> rob: yes he does. the ground outs have got him out of a few jams. that is making your pitches when you need to. >> bob: we love the guy, we want him to not have to work so hard. breaking ball low to drew macias leading off the fifth. he is ahead of the pitcher correia and then cabrera.

that ball's trouble. left field line unless willie harris tumbles to get there. you are looking at two or three bases if he doesn't make that play. sometimes it helps to have a left fielder with a glove on the right hand. >> rob: this ball is a shot tailing away from willie harris. his speed catches up to it. right here gives up his body almost jams that wrist. thankfully he pulled it through. he is no worse for the wear. >> bob: you know willie harris is one of the best outfielders i have seen who is right handed going to back hand plays on that left field line. it will be a long time before we forget the play he made at shea stadium last year in a 1-0 ballgame that helped the nats win. >> rob: i see many outfielders, this year jay bruce broke his

wrist. matsui broke his wrist on a diving play two years ago. you can be in trouble. >> bob: lannan trying to get a couple of quick outs. he takes care of business with the pitcher. i'm pretty sure i know where ryan zimmerman will be playing. let's have a look at our trivia. we know justin maxwell is one of the two guys. first career homer with his a grand slam. was the other one nick hundley? >> rob: come on. he is a -- a hammer. please. >> bob: nice try, rob. you get them friday. we are told the first pitch kevin kouzmanoff saw in the big leagues was a grand slam. he must have been looking for a first pitch fast ball. >> rob: i think he closed his

eyes and swung. that is what they told me. >> bob: cabrera 3-0 now. he has hit three identical choppers to the shallow playing zimmerman on the left side. john lannan has already walked three guys today. but only given up one hit. will venable a clean single up the middle. back in the second. >> rob: you don't want to start messing around with two outs. >> bob: if you walk him it might become a double. he has stolen 20 bases in 23 attempts. >> rob: eckstein is going to grind out an at bat every time he gets up there. don't hurt yourself right here. >> bob: he has hit two home runs all year. throw it down the middle. see if he can hit it fair. he will. nothing zimmerman can do. >> rob: came back from down three balls.

and made the guy have to over the third base bag infield single, one of cabrera's best bolts right there. it is so far foul after it is fair and he can't throw him out. >> bob: those guys hit a grounder you either have to lay back on or not able to charge, they are going to be safe. here's eckstein. two grounders pulled, one to zimmerman, one to gonzales. pitch out the 20 stolen base. >> rob: make the guy afternoon it. the three free passes by john lannan. that puts you into problems. bases loaded, he was in a jam. needed a double play to get out of it. you don't want to to have to make perfect pitches to get out of jams. with two outs, don't walk that guy. he earned it. he got a base hit.

been bob it is gonzales now. now last time prayed prado is going back there. i can guarantee you that won't happen again. a dangerous hitter nonetheless with two on two out in a scoreless game. 

 been bob missing inside aft missing away. . >> rob: now john lannan is approaching 80 pitches and he is not even through five innings yet. >> bob: he was pumping. willie harris after it. he can't get it. it's up against the wall. two runs will score, and gonzales gives the padres the lead. he hit it so hard willie harris could not run it. for gansz rbis number 78 and 7.

>> rob: well gonzales goes with the breaking ball. you have got it on a strikeout one time today but not that time. good hitters will make adjustments, gonzales made at adjustment to the breaking ball the sweeper. and he swept it over willie harris' head. for two rbis lob lob don't know how much willie missed it by. but it was just off the webbing of his glove. looks like the nats are going to walk kouzmanoff off and take their chances with chase headley. the exact inning that rob envisioned, if lannan walked cabrera, he did earn his way on. but the scenario of the inning worked out just as you had feared. sometimes you know, you put yourself in jeopardy. got two quick outs. fell behind the lead off guy.

and he got an infield single, scratched that out which he has done a lot of in the last three days. eckstein grinded out his at bat which is why he is in the two hole. and then your real pain guys are gonzales and kouzmanoff and it got you today. now you have to rebound. you have got to say okay, that's it. that is all they are going to get. levon hernandez until he got stuck with a pinch hit homerun the other night was excellent for six or seven innings, after he gave up the two runs early. >> bob: headley a switch hitter. he has walked and grounded into a fielder's choice today on a ball that should have been a double play. he'll drive it to right. it is up, padilla and goes over his head. gonzales scores. kouzmanoff off, coming in 4-0.

>> rob: remember this is all with two outs the breaking ball down and in. it stays up high enough where headley is just inside out and whacks it over padilla's head. two outs, kouzmanoff scores easily from first.  

river are grabbing his glov 52. this happened quickly, didn't it? >> rob: two quick outs. >> bob: batters hitting safely. kouzmanoff off the walk. lefty lefty now with lannan and venable   >> bob: breaking ball, broken bat. it is going to be 5-0. >> rob: bob, we talked about this before the game.

on the road john lannan 3-8. three runs higher than his home era. he is 5-1 with a 26 era at nationals park. >> bob: who would have thought nick hundley whether or not made the last out last inning would bat in this fifth inning after the two guys behind him were retired to start the fifth? upon bob it is possible now john lannan is facing his last hitter today, whether he gets the batter or no. it will be a pop-up out behind second for pete orr. sunglasses blazing. he's got it. nine padres bat, five score. lannan due to lead off in the

top of the sixth. there are car radios... and then there is the voice-recognizing, text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed. update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

geico's been saving people money and who doesn't want value for their dollar? been true since the day i made my first dollar. where is that dollar? i got it out to show you... uhh... was it rather old and wrinkly? yeah, you saw it? umm fancy a crisp? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.  >> if i was an owner i woul bring back barry bonds, sammy sosa and mar keys crisp. >> bob: bob last time i counted

you are only supposed to use three outfielders but one of those guys could play first base. as if on cue, mike morris will bat for john lannan here starting the top of the sixth. >> rob: they are a little bit older. i didn't think he qualified it and said in their prime. they are all in their 40s now. there is four of them. so i think you might need four old ones to cover the outfield. they are all awesome in their prime been bob you'd win. you'd win. >> rob: you'd have some major ego problems in the clubhouse. there would be a fight for the three spots have to have somebody sneaking cork in there. >> rob: nice throw in there, bob. hey that is one of my biggest

pet peas. >> bob: i'm not speculating, that happened you have people climbing through the air conditioning vents. >> rob: he took time to tape up his gamers. he knew exactly what bat he was pulling out of there. had cork in it bob been mike morris is 27 years of age from lauder dale. the nats got him june 28th. >> rob: how about uncorking one right here mike morris? two balls two strikes. >> rob: he is strong. we need to find a place for the kid. got to get some reps, he is big, he is strong and he hits the ball a ton.

>> bob: just two for nine in five games with seattle last year before they had to reconstruct his shoulder. totally overmatched on that breaking ball. strikeout number three for kevin correia, who is the latest pitcher. lacking like a 15 to 20 game winner against this struggling washington offense. he has given the nats two hits. back to back singles by dunn and zimmerman in the first inning and since then 14 straight retired. >> rob: john lannan had given up four hits and had 15 straight innings going into that four walks, one intentional. three strikeouts, a double play ball, 90 pitches, 52 strikes. same number of pitches that got him through eight innings in st. louis on friday night. that ball jacked high in the of a by willie harris.

right field line. he loses it. oh, he made a great recovery. >> bob: the sun is straight overled coming in from the third base sign of home plate. it was up there so long, rob, he was able to refined it. >> rob: he lowes the hands up i have no clue where it is i had it i had it i had it, tracking, then i got it back. i got it. even with the shading of the glove and the glasses on, he lost the ball. but made a great recovery.   >> bob: this road trip look pretty good last thursday when the nats won two out of three at chicago. swept at st. louis. a threat of that here down

five. and only ten outs with which to work. and gonzales. the nats need him on base. he cannot get wild here and swing at something way out of the zone on 3-1. a walk is as good as a hit with adam dunn waiting here in the sixth. >> rob: same thing we talk about with alberto gonzales. justin maxwell has been doing t throwing the back leg and the back shoulder. >> ball four. now it is a can of corn to left field. 0 for 3, three fly balls, the nats are gone in the sixth. text-out-loud-reading, turn-by-turn-direction-giving sync system... in the all-new ford taurus. sfx: ((sync beep)) please say a command. read message. highway 8 closed.

update route. turn right on silver road. we speak car. we speak innovation. introducing the all-new taurus from ford. drive one.

 been bob clouds in the distance. nothing is going right for the nationals. john lannan gives up five hits. there is nothing happening offense offensively with this ball club. >> rob: no and some guys continue to make the mistakes over and over and over. some of our big evaluators are watching this stuff, they are seeing what is going on we may love these guys but we may not see a lot of them coming into spring training. you have to get more consistent and more quality at bats and alberto gonzales has had more than enough time to make that adjustment from popping the